S02.E05: The Rise of David Miscaviage

[film noire]

On 9/14/2017 at 3:11 PM, 3girlsforus said:

That was crushing but also upsetting.  Since he thought he might be special enough for his wife not to have to have an abortion, he knew other women were being forced to do so. It bothers me that it was a problem once it hit him. I do try to understand and not be judgmental since I can't really know what it was like for him, but that part bothered me. 

I think it's hard to nurture empathy when you're in a cult.  From what people have said (in all sots of cults, not just Scientology) you're convinced all the ugly things being done to others must be due to them being unclear or ungodly; and then it happens to you, and you know what you've done and haven't done, so the lie becomes increasingly harder to ignore. Some people double down with self hatred and self punishment (no, it really must be me, not the church) but some people start to get free.

Scientology is such a den of thieves (and none of the leaders , past and present, possessed any decency or humanity) but out of them all, Miscavige was the best choice to destroy Scientology as an institution,  imo. He has no gifts to defend the cult from destruction; no ability to appear charming and reasonable on camera or with the media, no dazzling charismatic presence that makes Scientologists feel they're following a great soul and brilliant mind (as Jim Jones did, initially).  Instead, Miscavige relies on dumb brutality.  It's like Fredo won. 

Edited September 15, 2017 by film noire

[beaker73]

On 9/12/2017 at 11:07 PM, deaja said:

On a shallow note, Leah looked gorgeous tonight.

Miscavige fascinates me. I could listen to them tell stories of his antics for hours.

Didn't she though? I mean...she always looks good and her makeup is always spot on, but something about the dress and the dark lipstick really worked.  

[cynicat]

On 9/14/2017 at 6:29 AM, Pondlass1 said:

The Co$ can easily be defined as a cult and not a Church.  It helps no one spiritually or physically.  Quite the opposite in fact - it helps only itself.  Once it's defined nothing more than a dangerous cult - then tax the hell out of them.  I'm sure the government can direct the money to good use - maybe in the realm of mental health for instance.

I don't think the cult definition is all that simple.  Frankly, I see the Catholic church as a cult.  I'm not defending CO$ in any way, but religion is in the eye of the beholder and trying to define it is a slippery slope.

[3girlsforus]

19 hours ago, film noire said:

I think it's hard to nurture empathy when you're in a cult.  From what people have said (in all sots of cults, not just Scientology) you're convinced all the ugly things being done to others must be due to them being unclear or ungodly; and then it happens to you, and you know what you've done and haven't done, so the lie becomes increasingly harder to ignore. Some people double down with self hatred and self punishment (no, it really must be me, not the church) but some people start to get free.

Scientology is such a den of thieves (and none of the leaders , past and present, possessed any decency or humanity) but out of them all, Miscavige was the best choice to destroy Scientology as an institution,  imo. He has no gifts to defend the cult from destruction; no ability to appear charming and reasonable on camera or with the media, no dazzling charismatic presence that makes Scientologists feel they're following a great soul and brilliant mind (as Jim Jones did, initially).  Instead, Miscavige relies on dumb brutality.  It's like Fredo won. 

This is an excellent point. It's probably additionally hard to view the abuse as bad when those you see being abused believe it's the right thing as well. 

[ketose]

1 hour ago, cynicat said:

I don't think the cult definition is all that simple.  Frankly, I see the Catholic church as a cult.  I'm not defending CO$ in any way, but religion is in the eye of the beholder and trying to define it is a slippery slope.

The Cult Awareness Network (before CO$ sued them out of existence, then bought their name so they could use it to get people INTO cults) used to say religions and other social groups were cults, but that the difference was what kinds of things they wanted you to do and if they made you uncomfortable.

[smorbie]

6 hours ago, beaker73 said:

Didn't she though? I mean...she always looks good and her makeup is always spot on, but something about the dress and the dark lipstick really worked.  

It played up her natural coloring and was in her normal color palette.  

[MaryPatShelby]

On 9/12/2017 at 10:07 PM, deaja said:

On a shallow note, Leah looked gorgeous tonight.

I'm going to join the Shallow Brigade as well.  I loved the dress and lipstick in JB's interview, and loved her sort of tousled casual but sooo cute hair in Jackson's interview.  I need a stylist. Anyone know if they cost a lot?  ha ha ha

On 9/14/2017 at 4:29 PM, Absurda said:

In the "church"'s attack on Jackson Morehead, they trot out his niece to talk about how he was never there and part of the family.  Mike's response to that:  "Seriously? He was in the SEA ORG. He was not allowed to even tell family members where he was."

I have to say, I admire Mike's restraint in not saying "well, duh!".  I find this attack particularly stupid.  These folks are the first ones to tell people that they didn't have contact with children, parents, spouses, etc because they were part of the Sea Org.  I find it really appalling that Scientology actively, consistently and purposely separates people from their families then uses that separation as an attack later.  I think they did the same with Mike and his daughter.  Just, gross.

I did have a laugh, though, when they said Jackson was uneducated and illiterate and Mike pointed out that Jackson had been 100% educated by Scientology!    I guess it's far easier to try and discredit the messengers rather than the message.  It's getting to the point, though, that even if you don't believe any one survivor's statement the overwhelming number of people with variations of the same stories and nothing from the "church" but name calling as a response has to really make you think there's something to it all.

Did this all happen in the show and my mind wandered (because I don't remember this at all, and I feel like I'd remember a niece) or is it from another source?

[LegalParrot81]

13 minutes ago, MaryPatShelby said:

I find it really appalling that Scientology actively, consistently and purposely separates people from their families then uses that separation as an attack later.  I think they did the same with Mike and his daughter.

And his son, Benjamin.  I rewatched episode 2 of season 1 last night, it was the real introduction to Mike and his story.  Of his two older children, he thought his son might eventually follow him out.  His daughter, sorry I know she's been programmed to the max, but to listen to what she had to say about Mike just made my blood boil.  

One of the reasons he kept quiet and laid low about the church for the first two years he was out, was so he could stay in contact with his mother.  After he spoke out, he lost that communication too.  No one in his family even bothered to let him know when she died.  He got an email from some stranger.  He hopes that when Scientology eventually implodes he can attempt to rebuild a relationship with not only his kids, but his siblings.

[LilWharveyGal]

1 hour ago, MaryPatShelby said:

Did this all happen in the show and my mind wandered (because I don't remember this at all, and I feel like I'd remember a niece) or is it from another source?

It's from the smear videos $cientology posted in response to the episode, and Mike's comments were on his blog.

[Nancypants]

If Miss Cabbage tried to assault me I could pound his puny ads into the pavement. And I'm a girl.

[Mom2twoNonna2-3]

I'm sure you could. However, they did state that he is quite muscular under that fancy suit.

[ketose]

5 hours ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

I'm sure you could. However, they did state that he is quite muscular under that fancy suit.

Probably has a glass jaw, though. He's only beaten people, he hasn't been in a fight.

[LegalParrot81]

1 hour ago, ketose said:

Probably has a glass jaw, though. He's only beaten people, he hasn't been in a fight.

And he never beats people without his goon squad close by.

[3girlsforus]

23 hours ago, Mom2twoNonna2one said:

I'm sure you could. However, they did state that he is quite muscular under that fancy suit.

This may be true but I doubt he would actually use them if confronted. In his insulated and protected world he knows he can beat the crap out of people and they were either just accept it or his goons will haul anyone who dares resist off to the Hole. In the real world, if he assaulted someone, they would fight back and I bet one or two blows would send him whimpering in the corner. He's a inadequate bully who uses fear and power to compensate for his pathetic personality. When confronted with someone he can't control or intimidate, he would run scared.

[VioletMarx]

In that crazy video where they almost violently salute each other, you can see that Miss Cabbage (love that!) is actually even shorter than Cruise.

Makes that Standing Tall song even more hilarious.

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, 3girlsforus said:

This may be true but I doubt he would actually use them if confronted. In his insulated and protected world he knows he can beat the crap out of people and they were either just accept it or his goons will haul anyone who dares resist off to the Hole. In the real world, if he assaulted someone, they would fight back and I bet one or two blows would send him whimpering in the corner. He's a inadequate bully who uses fear and power to compensate for his pathetic personality. When confronted with someone he can't control or intimidate, he would run scared.

Wouldn't you love to see him and Cruise run afoul of each other?  Talk about a tweetle-beetle battle.

[LegalParrot81]

12 minutes ago, VioletMarx said:

In that crazy video where they almost violently salute each other, you can see that Miss Cabbage (love that!) is actually even shorter than Cruise.

Makes that Standing Tall song even more hilarious.

I read some where that Miss Cabbage is about 5' 3".  He's an itty bitty thug.

[Scout Finch]

Here's hoping for a future thread: "The Rise and Fall of David Miscavage and Scientology."

[Sew Sumi]

That's a good girl! 

Love, Daddy Atticus ?

[ParadoxLost]

Watching this again.  It seems like JB is sanitizing his history a little bit.  It doesn't seem right that he could help someone try to make contact with Miscavige's enemy, have him and his goons show up to beat the crap of the phone, and then not end up on Miscavige's bad side.

Yeah, they were brother in law but Misczavige family didn't help his wife or father.

JB had to have reported the contact attempt and it was a pre-arranged plan to break off that communication.

[juliet73]

I totally laughed when Miss Cabbage announced Elron's death as "January 24, 1986 A.D. After Dianetics." After Dianetics!! Lol!! That alone would make me run to the hills!!

[HunterHunted]

On 10/7/2017 at 4:39 PM, juliet73 said:

I totally laughed when Miss Cabbage announced Elron's death as "January 24, 1986 A.D. After Dianetics." After Dianetics!! Lol!! That alone would make me run to the hills!!

It also shows how dumb he is because Dianetics was published in 1950. If we're numbering based on events that occurred after Dianetics, 1986 is actually the year 36 A.D. He's a dumbass.

[Whimsy]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

It also shows how dumb he is because Dianetics was published in 1950. If we're numbering based on events that occurred after Dianetics, 1986 is actually the year 36 A.D. He's a dumbass.

Lol.  I was going to say something to that affect too.

[LegalParrot81]

Actually Miss Cabbage said AD 36.

Here's a video I just found with the announcement.  What's really good about this video........the subtitles.  They're a riot.