Past Seasons Talk: A Mystery Writer and NYC Detectives Solve Crimes

[GoGiants]

Well said, @verdana.

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3. Alexis gets kidnapped and the very next episode they're joking around like NOTHING ever happened, I know they like standalone episodes but Jesus something that should be enormously traumatic to the family happens and the don't even manage one single mention of Alexis the following week, meanwhile dad is fooling around chasing after a tape that could be cursed. Sigh 

Yes! This one drove me nuts (really everything listed up thread and other moments as well bugged).  I remember watching this episode and thinking that at least Castle could afford her therapy bills. More seriously, how on earth would she not be affected by an incident like that? Any sort of comment or moment about it would've been far more natural and normal than just ignoring it and moving on. In early seasons, Castle and Beckett discussed Alexis and her various issues often, why wouldn't they discuss this? It would've shown a bit more character depth and growth for Alexis and also could have created some nice family bonding/emotional moments as they supported each other.

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In the end this jarring emotional seesaw act they had going with the characters between high drama/emotional distress one minute and funny episodes the next with usually no referral back to past events impacting on them in any way increasingly annoyed me as they piled up.  This way of structuring a show doesn't work, I've realised how much I value continuity and Castle was terrible at it, I'm not sure I'd watch something like this again where it's clear the writers have no intention of maintaining any kind of continuity whatsoever, it's also lazy writing. 

There could be an entire thread dedicated to dropped plot threads, continuity fails and all the issues the writers chose not to address over the seasons (or totally forgot about).  Not just lazy writing, but poor storytelling and plotting as well. 

It makes me hesitant to watch another MilMar product. Their concept and execution of early Castle was great. Taking it beyond that seems to have been a struggle. 

How hard would it have been to add little conversations or moments that tied back to events in prior episodes? The lack of follow up made it appear that almost all issues/trauma on Castle were completely forgotten and resolved in the episode it occurred in. Only the largest plot lines (Beckett's first shooting, sad we have to specify now, Beckett's Mom/Bracken, and 3XK, I'm not going to bother with S8, lol) seemed to have received regular mentions over the years. I say mentions because while the storyline may have been present in episode, there were many times where I thought they seriously dropped the ball or were totally inconsistent, even with their big arcs. 

I had my issues with continuity prior to S8. I think I gave the show a pass because I binge watched and I was enjoying the characters and their story despite the continuity issues. The wedding mess plus S8 really tore down whatever goodwill I had that made it easy to gloss over the inconsistencies. As the seasons go by, bad continuity and other laziness can really weigh a show down. 

Edited May 29, 2016 by GoGiants

[amensisterfriend]

So now that it's all over, how would you guys rank the seasons from your very favorite to least favorite? No ties allowed, of course :) 

[FlickerToAFlame]

3, 2, 4, 1, 5, 7, 6, 8

[westwingfan]

Based on the number of episodes I won't watch again per season my list looks like this.

2, 3,1 (I happily rewatch these seasons in their entirety) then 4, (Heartbreak Hotel was the first episode I didn't want to rewatch), 5, 6, 7, 8 as the number of episodes I avoid increases each season. Dead Red is the only episode I happily re- watch from S8 (NO Alexis, NO Hayley) and only a couple of others, like Fidelis Ad Mortem, (I just found Hayley too irritating, and I'm British LOL),  at a pinch.

[S55]

3, 4, 2, 1, 5, 7, 6, 8

[femmefan1946]

Caught part of a rerun while channel surfing last night - the one with the Taylor Swift tickets, and the nurse with a convict girlfriend and the drug baron in love with his doctor.

Going by Beckett's hair, Season Three?

Now I remember why I loved this show. The writers were able to write three different plots, add more characterization, and witty chat between Castle and Beckett, Castle and Gina, Montgomery and the boys.

And NF's clothes fit too.

[amensisterfriend]

I love seeing the love for S3! I recall people having very mixed feelings about it while it aired, but it's become a favorite of mine. It has some clunkers, but its highlights are definitely among the best of the whole series IMO. I think the good thing about these recent seasons is that earlier seasons now seem far better by comparison to me :) 

[BellyLaughter]

1 3 2 4 6 5 7 8

[WendyCR72]

Everyone, just a reminder that PTV doesn't like simple "list" posts. If you like whatever season(s), put a blurb explaining why. In other words, discuss!

Thanks! Carry on.

[WendyCR72]

This may mean nothing for those with the DVDs or DVRs or to those outside of the US, but for those that like the TNT repeats, enjoy. The TV Listings have Castle being predominantly replaced by Arrow and Bones (and movies) starting next week, with Castle relegated to dead of night (say, 2:00 a.m.) or early morning (5:00 a.m. or 6:00 a.m.). I guess it makes sense since it had been heavily rotated many times over, but I'm sure it'll be disappointing for some, too.

My local MyNetwork affiliate shows an episode on Saturday evenings now, too. So check your listings. Maybe other stations will still carry the show more.

Here are the times listed for TNT. (Keep in mind it is eastern time zone, as it is where I am. So adjust accordingly!)

[femmefan1946]

Here are the times listed for TNT. (Keep in mind it is eastern time zone, as it is where I am. So adjust accordingly!)

 

While the US East Coast is more heavily populated, a program playing at midnight EST plays here on the West Coast at 9pm, which is still prime time.

Edited September 28, 2016 by femmefan1946

[WendyCR72]

TNT has put Castle repeats back on on Thursdays and Fridays. Thursdays, it airs from 5:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. ET and Fridays, it airs from 4:00 p.m. to 8:00 p.m. ET.

[whateverhappened]

I still miss this show so much, though by the end of that horrid last season I was relieved to see it go. And I still have hopes of one day finishing at least one of the 10 or so Caskett fanfics I've started! 

Right now, I would say Season 5 is my favorite, followed by S3, S4, S2, S1, S6, S7 and S8. 

I connected more with the Beckett of Seasons 3, 4, and 5, more vulnerable and damaged but still, to me, at her core the Beckett we had come to know. I do absolutely see why some think she changed too much and became too Mary Sue-ish in some ways and too much the martyred victim in others. She's more real, touching and interesting to me in those middle seasons, but I understand why some miss the Beckett we first met. Similarly, I like the slightly softer, dorkier and more serious Castle that we see more in the middle seasons that the overly cocky, more entitled and smug Castle we get the first two. I love him always and agree we see flashes of caring and depth from the very first episode, but I think he became more thoughtful, deep and, like Beckett, a more vulnerable person in those middle seasons. But, also like Beckett, I can easily understand why those changes can be perceived as negative by many fans! 

These are probably better put in the unpopular opinions thread, lol, but I'm just trying to explain why I would rank the seasons in a different order than most would. :) 

This show definitely made its share of mistakes. I agree with everyone who felt the story with Beckett's mom was exhausting, convoluted and should have ended much earlier than it did. I also agree that the lighter episodes focusing on the case, the banter and the show's humor better highlight Castle's strengths and are usually more rewatchable than the dramatic ones. Every season has a few episodes I'll always skip, but the things I love about the show still far outweigh the things I can't stand - at least for the first six seasons!   

[DaynaPhile]

I know fan videos often use an actor's other works, and I know the opening shot of this one is just that, (AU pregnancy fan vid) but at the 1:09 mark when they are storming a house, Beckett, in a voice over, is heard saying "I don't feel so good". I know it's not from that scene, and IIRC what's happening there is that they all caught a whiff of a decomposing body. (Though I don't remember that actual episode either, so any help there too?) But where did the voice clip come from? Is is something else Stana has done or does she say that in some episode? And if so, does anyone know which one? Long shot I know, but some of you know these episodes as well as I know XF eps so I'm taking a flyer here. 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SGW247mDa_U

Edited February 19, 2017 by DaynaPhile

[Guest]

I've been watching a lot of Castle lately.  I missed it and had finally gotten over the trauma of Season 8.

I'm enjoying Seasons 4 and 5 more than I remember enjoying them "live."  Maybe because if I don't like an episode, I just delete it?

One thing I've been trying to remember is what season/episode it was where the following plot happens - it's while they're still trying to solve Beckett's mom's murder.  The hit man who knows who hired him is shot and killed in the precinct.  I feel like I should have already passed it in my re-watch, but either it didn't air this time or I somehow skipped it.

[DaynaPhile]

That would be a Sucker Punch. S2E13. One of my favorites because Beckett didn't hesitate to plug the guy to save Castle. 

[madmaverick]

On 2/14/2017 at 11:22 PM, whateverhappened said:

I still miss this show so much, though by the end of that horrid last season I was relieved to see it go. And I still have hopes of one day finishing at least one of the 10 or so Caskett fanfics I've started! 

Right now, I would say Season 5 is my favorite, followed by S3, S4, S2, S1, S6, S7 and S8. 

I connected more with the Beckett of Seasons 3, 4, and 5, more vulnerable and damaged but still, to me, at her core the Beckett we had come to know. I do absolutely see why some think she changed too much and became too Mary Sue-ish in some ways and too much the martyred victim in others. She's more real, touching and interesting to me in those middle seasons, but I understand why some miss the Beckett we first met. Similarly, I like the slightly softer, dorkier and more serious Castle that we see more in the middle seasons that the overly cocky, more entitled and smug Castle we get the first two. I love him always and agree we see flashes of caring and depth from the very first episode, but I think he became more thoughtful, deep and, like Beckett, a more vulnerable person in those middle seasons. But, also like Beckett, I can easily understand why those changes can be perceived as negative by many fans! 

These are probably better put in the unpopular opinions thread, lol, but I'm just trying to explain why I would rank the seasons in a different order than most would. :) 

This show definitely made its share of mistakes. I agree with everyone who felt the story with Beckett's mom was exhausting, convoluted and should have ended much earlier than it did. I also agree that the lighter episodes focusing on the case, the banter and the show's humor better highlight Castle's strengths and are usually more rewatchable than the dramatic ones. Every season has a few episodes I'll always skip, but the things I love about the show still far outweigh the things I can't stand - at least for the first six seasons!   

Do give your fanfics another go!  I could always do with a good Caskett fanfic and they seem to be drying up these days sadly.

I think S1-2 is still my favorite, followed by S3, but there should be eps in all the seasons that I would consider overall favorites even if some eps sucked.  The light hearted ones are more rewatchable for me, too.   Some eps I still have no desire to rewatch, e.g. TSATQ.

Early Beckett is still my favorite, maybe because I felt her more relatable.  I'm all for characters showing vulnerabilities, but somehow the way they went about it with Beckett in S4, 5 and onwards, just didn't really work for me, starting with lying about hearing Castle's ILU.  I love early Castle but also love matured Castle thanks to Beckett's influence, except I wish the writers' had not de-balled him at times especially vis a vis Beckett and Alexis, even if he had fantastic moments of strength.  It's not that I didn't love Caskett as a couple, but the versions of Castle and Beckett when they were a couple somehow weren't as appealing (or as sharply written) as in their pre-couple sexual tension stage, at least to me.  The romance was a bit dulled in a lot of eps.  And don't get me started on the ridiculous angst creating arcs we got even after they were a couple.

[Badsamaritan]

Completely petty of me but I'm proud that I still haven't watched a single episode of S8 except the last 30 seconds of the series finale. TNT repeats were my go to in the evenings but they're on S8 now and I still have no desire to see whatever show it was they put on the air for the last season. I can't imagine that changing.

[hnygrl]

It quit being "good" at season 5. That's when Caskett got ridiculous. There are very few episodes after season 4 that I enjoyed (the one where they made it look like it was still the 70's was funny), but there aren't that many over all. I too only watched the last minute of the finale and even then was left wondering what I was watching. It looked like they'd planned that as an "if only" segment but went with it for the ending after all. If only she'd lived, this is the life we would've had...that kinda thing. I still believe that they meant for that last scene to be Beckett's murder but went with the "if only" scene instead when the whole idea of the show got canceled.

Towards the end I hated that show. And like most of you it took me a while before I could go back and rewatch my favorite seasons. Season 3 is still my all time favorite season. Followed by 4, then two, then 1. 5-8 you can have 'em.

[KaveDweller]

1 hour ago, hnygrl said:

 It looked like they'd planned that as an "if only" segment but went with it for the ending after all. If only she'd lived, this is the life we would've had...that kinda thing. I still believe that they meant for that last scene to be Beckett's murder but went with the "if only" scene instead when the whole idea of the show got canceled.

One of the showrunners (I forget which one) said that scene was supposed to be the future and not an "if only." If they had gotten renewed they wouldn't have shown it and she would have been gone, but since they were cancelled it was added in to show she survived.

It was really terribly done though.

Edited March 22, 2017 by KaveDweller

[WendyCR72]

3 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

One of the showrunners (I forget which one) said that scene was supposed to be the future and not an "if only."

 

Yeah, poorly done, but it was supposed to show they somehow survived and had the kiddies, etc. I recall the same thing being explained by TIIC.

[madmaverick]

There wasn't a question in my mind that the scene with the kids was meant to show X years later.  It was very tacked on, but if they were going to have them shot, then I'm glad we got that scene of happy resolution, cheesy though it was.  But I'd rather they had a version where there was a happy end scene in the loft or elsewhere just with Caskett, without the last minute melodrama of being shot in their own home.  I don't want to get into what ifs for S9 again, but I still don't think they would have really killed Beckett.  It would have turned out she was in witness protection or on a top secret mission or something like that and Castle was going to be reunited with her when the show ended for good.  

The show was very uneven to me after S3 and I remember thinking S3 was uneven when I watched at the time.  The thing with procedurals with no end date is that they are almost bound to get staler and staler.  The crimes get repetitive, and the writers can never help stirring up drama for couples even after they get them together because they don't know what they would do with the after.  The WT/WT period for Caskett is still my favourite.  Just looking at the writing alone, the writing post Always for the couple never really lived up to expectations, never halted the general decline.  Don't get me wrong, there are still lots of moments I do enjoy in the last few seasons and the show will always have a certain watchable quality for me, especially the light hearted eps, and because the characters endeared themselves to me, but was the writing in the last few seasons that good?  No.

[TWP]

 At it's worst, I think Castle was among the best written shows on recent TV, although maybe that isn't saying a lot. I'm still trying to find something to replace it. I try with This Is Us, but I would take a Castle rerun over a slow moving soap opera any day.  It's the light-hearted episodes that I sit and watch. The Mombatross and torture-laced episodes are boring. And I skip Season 8 as well. But torture seems to be filler nowadays on TV. How many times do we have to sit and watch somebody tied up,  getting their face punched or their head dunked, or being injected with "pain serum" before we scream uncle ourselves. 24 reboot, I'm looking at you!

Anyway, I still love Castle.  I don’t think Derrick Storm would be a winner for me, but I hope Take Two gets off the ground. I always said I'd never watch an AWM show again, but I'm getting desperate!

[Utpe]

I used to watch Castle religiously every Monday night.  I made absolutely sure that I was glued to my T.V. for the hour that it aired on ABC.  It was my second favorite show next to Chuck.  The will they/won't they tension had me wanting more.  The writing was superb, and the characters completely held my interest.  Then, the eighth season premiered, and it felt as though I was watching an entirely different show.

What in the world happened?  Did they hire new writers?  I didn't believe for one moment that Beckett would ever leave Castle like she did in the second episode of the eighth season.  A lot of their scenes were filmed separately.  They split up but were still married?  Huh?  They kept dragging on the amnesia bit which annoyed me to no end.  I really wanted them to completely ditch that P.I. shtick Castle had started up.  There was no reason to have it anymore since he was allowed back at the 12th Precinct.  Castle went from being a brilliant murder-mystery novelist to a complete idiot overnight.  They destroyed Alexis's character by making her some sorta sexy, highly intelligent superhero.  Plus, I couldn't stand what's-her-face helping with cases.  And to think, she would have been the new love interest had this show continued on to a ninth season.  I'm glad the Locksat story line was resolved in the end, but even that was becoming tedious.  Making Beckett a Captain of the 12th was utterly ridiculous.  It's a desk job.  Of course she's going to be bogged down in continuous paperwork and not have any time in the field.  But, of course, they found a way, as stupid as they handled that matter.

I suppose the only good thing that came out of this disaster of a season was the way they ended it.  I'm glad they jumped into the future.  It was so nice seeing Castle and Beckett with their twin boys and daughter.  It's a shame that we were never able to see how Beckett would have handled being a mother herself.  I feel like this show could have ran as long as Bones.

I apologize for the long rant, but I had to get a few things off of my chest.  The best I can figure out about the cancellation of this show was that the ratings were weak and that Stana/Nathan had a falling-out.  It doesn't seem like they wanted to be together onscreen that much unless they absolutely had to.

Maybe we should be glad it ended.  The eighth season was a chore to get through.  I have the DVD on my shelf, but still in the original wrapping.  That's how much I detest it.

[pepper]

I watched Castle until the bitter end, but I can honestly say that starting in season 3 (and possibly from the last scene in season 2) I never considered it to be particularly well-written. And although I never watch anything live except tennis or other sports where a party is involved, I remember the time delay for my viewing getting longer and longer as the seasons went on. At first I'd watch with a 15-minute delay, so almost live. Then the Canadian broadcast got early and I'd sometimes watch before US broadcast time. Then I started watching the next day. Then I started watching just to see what people were talking about as the conversation became more entertaining than the show. 

Now that I'm re-watching, there are still episodes I delete as soon as I recognize them (Douchebag Arc, Locksat, Private-eye Castle) so I watch perhaps one episode out of 3. I still love most of  the first two seasons and I love random episodes from later seasons where they're together as a couple and there is no angst related to it. And it makes me aware that if they'd simply made them a team after exhausting the plausibility of the WT/WT plot lines - arguably at the end of season 2 - it could have continued to be a near-live show for me. But hey-ho, they made a lot of money over 8 years, so maybe that's all that matters. The fact is, I love procedurals and I love strong characters, think Helen Mirren's role in Prime Suspect. But as the procedural plot lines became inevitably weaker over the years, IMO the writers failed to make it up to the viewers with compelling characterization.

What I love about re-watching is seeing if the original criticism on message boards stands the test of time. E.g. Lanie was excoriated for always relying on lividity to establish time of death. Funny observation: so did Perlmutter, but he got zero grief for it from the fans... And now that all the fashion is a decade old, I find Castle's shirts irrelevant. Re-runs are fun.

[shoop]

I'm not really sure if this is the place to put this or not but I'm utterly confused by the lack of availability of Castle both in syndication and on streaming services. I was watching it on TNT but the channel seems to have dropped the show completely. And there is no trace of it on Hulu anymore, not to mention how it's never been on Netflix. 

 

The big big question for me is why? Almost all other ABC Studios properties are on Netflix (at least in the US). Why not Castle? I've heard the music rights excuse before but I don't buy that. Not when Grey's Anatomy is on Netflix with most songs in tact or simply replaced. The same could be done for Castle without damage to the actual plot of any given episode. Hell, even 'In My Veins' could be replaced. 

 

So what gives? 

[WendyCR72]

Not sure this is at all valid as it was on TNT for a while (had no idea it was no longer on Hulu), but since it has all but dried up except on maybe some local channels, maybe the ratings in syndication weren't that good? It's the only explanation I can think of.

Deadline did have an article about how NBC has not even sold its Chicago franchise into syndication yet, and Chicago Fire just ended season 5 and Chicago PD just ended S4.

Except for the stalwarts (Law & Order franchise, CSI, and NCIS franchise as examples), the article says the syndication landscape for procedurals is harder now to make money since there are so many viewing platforms and options, etc.

Edited June 13, 2017 by WendyCR72

[TWP]

In my locality, it's on Sunday and Monday night from 1-2:00am on the ABC affiliate.  Maybe the fact that it's on broadcast TV keeps it off of Netflix.

Edited June 14, 2017 by TWP

[WendyCR72]

It does still air locally on the MyNetwork affiliate in my area on Saturday nights at 7:00 p.m. and 11:00 p.m., so local syndication is still happening, anyway.

[shoop]

I wonder if ratings really matter all that much in syndication. I never really thought they did/would but I suppose it could be a factor. 

My bigger concern is really the lack of availability on streaming platforms. I'm simply stumped as to why it isn't available anywhere. The last time I looked under ABC on Hulu, Castle wasn't even in the alphabetic list of shows for them. Almost every show that has aired on the network in the past decade is there - even the ones that only offer clips for viewing rather than full episodes - but not Castle. 

The conspiracy therorist in me has ideas but honestly I just want the show to be easily accessible so new fans can find it and existing fans can relive what made us fall in love with it in the first place. 

[WendyCR72]

Oh, ratings still matter in syndication. It determines what shows have staying power and make the network(s) running said shows money...and which shows end up fading away. Hence why some shows stick around long after first-run has ended and why other shows have not been seen in ages (Cold Case and Without A Trace come to mind as examples here. As well as Providence, briefly syndicated - then poof! Gone.).

Heck, even one of the CSI franchise shows, CSI: NY, is not on TV anywhere. It streams on Netflix, but even so, I'd think that would have been more readily seen on TV networks, too. And it isn't.

Edited June 14, 2017 by WendyCR72

[WendyCR72]

20 hours ago, TWP said:

In my locality, it's on Sunday and Monday night from 1-2:00am on the ABC affiliate.  Maybe the fact that it's on broadcast TV keeps it off of Netflix.

I don't think one precludes the other. Law & Order: SVU is still all over TV, but it also streams on both Hulu and Netflix. (The original L&O series and L&O: CI used to also be on Netflix, but are now...just all over TV.)

Hard to say what is going on with Castle, as I said, which is why I think maybe the ratings faltered or maybe the license to renew it in syndication lapsed...

Edited June 15, 2017 by WendyCR72

[KaveDweller]

I think they just cycle shows out with syndication. They try new ones and if they don't work circle back to old standbys. So maybe something new just started doing better.

 

Castle isn't even on ABC's app anymore, so maybe it is some license issue about streaming. It's on iTunes for download though.

[TWP]

It's available on Amazon Instant Video and Vudu as well.   You have to purchase it per episode from those sites. I think it's a good sign for it's popularity that they're offering it for sale, rather than as part of a streaming package.  I wonder if Hulu and Netflix consider it too expensive.  However, maybe as KaveDweller said, it's just being cycled out of syndication for awhile.

No conspiracy theories, just a pattern of syndication. 

[shoop]

23 hours ago, TWP said:

It's available on Amazon Instant Video and Vudu as well.   You have to purchase it per episode from those sites. 

My worry is that only being available for viewing by purchase will discourage new fans from discovering it, thereby leading to Castle never being in demand enough to be offered on the streaming sites or showing back up in syndication. I don't think the average casual tv viewer is going to be willing to pay $25 for a season or even $2.99 for a single episode just to try out a show. Being part of a streaming service that is already being paid for would encourage more new viewers to give it a chance, thereby extending its potential post-cancellation revenue viability. 

[TWP]

I read somewhere that TNT has an exclusive contract to air Castle.  They aren't airing it right now, though.  Once their contract expires, Castle may go back on streaming.  I see that Hulu has a listing for it now, but it says not available.

[madmaverick]

Re-watching a random S3 episode and there's a Donald Trump reference.  Oh boy, if only they knew then what was to come. ;)

[AsYouWish]

The first two or three seasons of this show are my favorite. Not just my favorite seasons of this series, but among my favorites of any TV show I've watched. I've been a whodunit mystery lover since first learning to read, a huge fan of those classic screwball comedies with leads who exchange witty banter en route to falling improbably in love, and I tend to love couples where the female is the more reserved introvert while the male is more extroverted and a little adorably insane. So those first few seasons of this show felt like the TV gods were answering my prayers, lol :) Even when the show dipped in quality, I still never quite got over my addiction to it, and I still very happily rewatch my favorite S1-S3 episodes again and again. They entertain and divert me more than almost any show I've watched while inspiring me to write fanfiction that I never actually finish. 

There's been a lot of great discussion about how the show made Castle far less smart, sharp and charming and made Beckett far more of a generic, improbably perfect and less likable and interesting Mary Sue than the socially awkward but cerebral, layered badass we first met, but I can never get past the change in Alexis. Over the first two seasons, the Alexis/Castle relationship was one of my very favorite things about this show and maybe even my favorite parent/child relationship on TV at the time. What in the world did they do to her - and why?! 

Like many of you, I like the lighter, clever cases of the week over the more angsty and sloppily executed arc episodes, and even as an avid viewer I literally could not tell you what really happened with Beckett's mother because I long ago lost the willingness or ability to follow that storyline! 

To end on a brighter note, I still love this show so much, especially when I block out a lot of the second half.  I'm still in love with the early versions of Castle, Beckett, Alexis and Martha. I think the quality of those mysteries is actually underrated. Compared to most TV mysteries, they were usually plotted and paced quite well in my opinion and, like the best mysteries, often raised some very intersting themes and ideas about human nature, but in a lighter and more subtle way than most of the crime shows that strain too hard to be dark and edgy. I also really believed back then that Beckett and Castle could be a perfect match who brought out each other's better sides and changed each other for the better. 

Just writing this post makes me realize it's time for another partial rewatch, during which I'll probably ignore a lot of the second half of the series while remembering what sublime entertainment this show was at its peak! 

Edited September 11, 2017 by AsYouWish

[Guest]

I’m enjoying it being in syndication more again. I just watched one of my favorite episodes “Once Upon a Crime.” I had to look up the cast because I was trying to place the villain. Meghan Markle! She’s been in the news so much this week that I must have recognized her from that. 

[andromeda331]

I finally figured out what troubled me about the murders in the Pilot. The brother. He doesn't seem the type to strip her naked and position her on a table with flowers. Even if he's trying to frame someone else for the crime.  I can buy him shooting his sister. But stripping your sister naked and covering her with flowers? It seems weird for what they shown of the brother. I'm not entirely sure I can see him strangling the one guy. Maybe he came up behind the guy?  Maybe its because Castle was able to get the upperhand but the brother looks weak and not strong enough to suffocate someone. The way he panicked and raced home to shread the passport didn't really make him look like someone who's calm enough to commit the crimes he did. He seems more like the type to shoot and that's it.     

[newyawk]

Finishing up another bingewatch of this series.  It's true--the worst episodes of the series were the ones that were Alexis-centric. She really was the weak link in a show full of otherwise strong characters, and I was never impressed with the actress, either.

[andromeda331]

48 minutes ago, newyawk said:

Finishing up another bingewatch of this series.  It's true--the worst episodes of the series were the ones that were Alexis-centric. She really was the weak link in a show full of otherwise strong characters, and I was never impressed with the actress, either.

I liked her in the early seasons but hated her starting in season six with the whole Pi and how she treated her dad. Her episodes and hunt for Becket's mom were the worse for me. 

[GoGiants]

On 10/10/2018 at 10:11 PM, newyawk said:

Finishing up another bingewatch of this series.  It's true--the worst episodes of the series were the ones that were Alexis-centric. She really was the weak link in a show full of otherwise strong characters, and I was never impressed with the actress, either.

 

On 10/10/2018 at 11:02 PM, andromeda331 said:

I liked her in the early seasons but hated her starting in season six with the whole Pi and how she treated her dad. Her episodes and hunt for Becket's mom were the worse for me. 

Agree about liking early season Alexis. The Castle family unit of Rick, Alexis and Martha was quite enjoyable to watch. I enjoyed seeing the “real” Castle at home with his family, being a parent etc. I also appreciated the interactions it brought to his relationship with Beckett in the earlier seasons.

Post high school Alexis was rather unpleasant. The Pi story arc was awful and while they tried it just did not work for me at all. Beyond her at times immature and unlikable behavior, I feel like she just flitted around in her college/jobs/life and finally landed fully formed as Alexis the PI/Hacker in S8. A very strange, awkward and unrealistic transition to adulthood. There’s nothing wrong with trying new things out, but how they did it didn’t seem fair or true to what I knew of Alexis. Also, that whole “parenting the parent” routine that was part of the early seasons Rick and Alexis interactions didn’t play so cute or funny in the last couple of seasons.

Given the constraints of the show, Alexis was never going to get a chance to grow or change organically. Plus, I think TV shows generally have a hard time when kid/teen actors/characters make the move from kid to adult on a show. I would’ve rather seen them give her some kind of transition out of the daily orbit of Rick if they would/could not give Alexis more time for growth (who am I kidding, they didn’t always give the main characters the attention they deserved in this department!).

Regarding Beckett’s mom: I don’t hate the story outright… but when it comes to re watching, I typically skip most of the episodes that are heavier into that story line. As with a lot of big conspiracies on TV shows that last for years, it got bloated and tired pretty quickly. I didn’t hate it, but felt like it was never really given proper attention when it popped up each season. So many details glossed over, plot holes, drama for drama’s sake and just plain nonsense. I was very ready for it to end when it did and super disappointed when they resurrected it in S8 via that whole mess. I watched in spite of and not because of that story.

Side note, glad the show ended before it could get any worse than it did but I miss this board. Hope all are well.

[andromeda331]

2 hours ago, GoGiants said:

 

Agree about liking early season Alexis. The Castle family unit of Rick, Alexis and Martha was quite enjoyable to watch. I enjoyed seeing the “real” Castle at home with his family, being a parent etc. I also appreciated the interactions it brought to his relationship with Beckett in the earlier seasons.

Post high school Alexis was rather unpleasant. The Pi story arc was awful and while they tried it just did not work for me at all. Beyond her at times immature and unlikable behavior, I feel like she just flitted around in her college/jobs/life and finally landed fully formed as Alexis the PI/Hacker in S8. A very strange, awkward and unrealistic transition to adulthood. There’s nothing wrong with trying new things out, but how they did it didn’t seem fair or true to what I knew of Alexis. Also, that whole “parenting the parent” routine that was part of the early seasons Rick and Alexis interactions didn’t play so cute or funny in the last couple of seasons.

Given the constraints of the show, Alexis was never going to get a chance to grow or change organically. Plus, I think TV shows generally have a hard time when kid/teen actors/characters make the move from kid to adult on a show. I would’ve rather seen them give her some kind of transition out of the daily orbit of Rick if they would/could not give Alexis more time for growth (who am I kidding, they didn’t always give the main characters the attention they deserved in this department!).

It really was. I loved the interactions between Rick, Alexis and Martha they were really enjoyable to watch. I agree it was really nice to see the "real" Castle. Plus take a little break from the crime and murders with a little family interaction. The way the helped and supported each other, teased and joke. It was really great. Once Alexis graduated that changed. It was still the same between Rick and Martha. But they didn't really seem to know what to do with Alexis or have still a part of the show but in college. There are ways to do it better. She went to classes but we never found out what her major was. The Pi storyline still bugs me Alexis brought her boyfriend into her father's house without ever once asking him and then acted like a jerk every time Castle said something against Pi. As if he wasn't freeloading and using everything in the house, leaving his crap all over the place and trying to make them eat his fruit whatever diet he was. She never once apologizes of that or her behavior. Getting mad at Castle when he set up that trap to catch who ever was stealing food even though it was her. Which she could have just said earlier when he asked and then gets mad because she doesn't want him to get mad that she blew all her money on something. God forbid Castle point out she did something stupid. Then suddenly in season 8 she's not only the PI and Hacker but she's really good at it? They never built it up or showed Alexis joining the PI and learning the hopes. She was just suddenly doing and really good at it. What happened to college? Did she quit? I don't mind her ending up PI or doing something in the police/ME whatever field but they did nothing to build towards. Personally, I kind of think she would have preferred forensics since it would have tied her ME experience into that project she had fun doing which was splatter patterns in the early seasons. 

 

Quote

 

Regarding Beckett’s mom: I don’t hate the story outright… but when it comes to re watching, I typically skip most of the episodes that are heavier into that story line. As with a lot of big conspiracies on TV shows that last for years, it got bloated and tired pretty quickly. I didn’t hate it, but felt like it was never really given proper attention when it popped up each season. So many details glossed over, plot holes, drama for drama’s sake and just plain nonsense. I was very ready for it to end when it did and super disappointed when they resurrected it in S8 via that whole mess. I watched in spite of and not because of that story.

Side note, glad the show ended before it could get any worse than it did but I miss this board. Hope all are well.

 

In the beginning it was interesting but that didn't last long for me. First it went on way too long and like you pointed out they glossed over so many details, plots holes and stuff which is half of what made me start hating those episodes the other half was how Beckett behaved in them. She went off the rails so many times, she wouldn't stop or listen to reason. I understand why it was so important to her and how it would be emotional and hard for her. But it was over the top and she did it ever time. She lost control, she yelled at everyone, she wouldn't (or couldn't) stay in control, stay grounded and follow the evidence.  It wasn't fun to watch her be like that. 

[CheshireCat]

On ‎15‎.‎10‎.‎2018 at 12:56 AM, andromeda331 said:

Then suddenly in season 8 she's not only the PI and Hacker but she's really good at it?

I think Alexis in S8 was a disaster. Cutting her hair and dressing her the way they dressed her didn't make her more mature or more grown up. Alexis was always very mature and quite the adult even before she turned 18 and/or graduated. She didn't need any of the outside changes. I felt that they changed her from an interesting character to a cliché.

 

On ‎15‎.‎10‎.‎2018 at 12:56 AM, andromeda331 said:

In the beginning it was interesting but that didn't last long for me. First it went on way too long and like you pointed out they glossed over so many details, plots holes and stuff which is half of what made me start hating those episodes the other half was how Beckett behaved in them. She went off the rails so many times, she wouldn't stop or listen to reason. I understand why it was so important to her and how it would be emotional and hard for her. But it was over the top and she did it ever time. She lost control, she yelled at everyone, she wouldn't (or couldn't) stay in control, stay grounded and follow the evidence.  It wasn't fun to watch her be like that. 

While I didn't like her going off the rails so often, I can appreciate how it was done, especially the S3 and 4 finales. I love how both times Castle didn't just take her rants but actually talked back and called her out on what she was doing. Both times, I found myself siding with him instead of her. 

I also liked how they used it to advance the Castle and Beckett relationship and while it happened slowly, Beckett also grew as a character through that. I do think that they shouldn't have brought the story back for S8 though. The Senator's arrest in S6 closed the case and they should have left it at that. Everything that followed was so clearly made up on the spot and didn't grow organically, just like Alexis in S8.