S01.E05: No Feminism In the Champagne Room

[Lady Calypso]

Quote

 

Jane is stunned when the subject of her latest article, a woman who left a finance job to become an exotic dancer, threatens to sue Scarlet – and Jane. Sutton is excited when she thinks she’s making a step forward in her career. Kat questions whether she is ready for a real relationship with anyone, especially in light of recent events with Adena.

Promo:

[funkopop]

Really like the show, but it's weird . Everything gets resolved at the end of the episode and there is never any real consequences so not much to hash out .  It's like talking about a sitcom, all the pieces are reset at the end of the day.  I did notice that look Richard gave Alex and Sutton when they left the conference room.  I have been expecting that triangle to pop up since Episode 1.

[BabyVegas]

Ok, the plotline about Jane getting sued. Truth is an absolute defense to defamation. Morgan Stanley was a stripper. Meaning the statement was true, so I can't see how there would be any defamation. I can see the magazine settling to get rid of the problem, but I can't imagine the settlement agreement would require Jane to admit culpability. Richard seems like a terrible lawyer, tbh. On top of that, would the stripper be allowed to use the name Morgan Stanley when she's specifically playing on the Wall Street connection?

For all its faults, though, the show has a fizzy, enjoyable charm. And the three leads have gorgeous hair.

[marny]

8 hours ago, BabyVegas said:

Ok, the plotline about Jane getting sued. Truth is an absolute defense to defamation. Morgan Stanley was a stripper. Meaning the statement was true, so I can't see how there would be any defamation. I can see the magazine settling to get rid of the problem, but I can't imagine the settlement agreement would require Jane to admit culpability. Richard seems like a terrible lawyer, tbh. On top of that, would the stripper be allowed to use the name Morgan Stanley when she's specifically playing on the Wall Street connection?

For all its faults, though, the show has a fizzy, enjoyable charm. And the three leads have gorgeous hair.

Yeah, the failure to explain what could possibly have been "defamatory" about an accurate story really bugged me.  So, the truth harmed her reputation in the community? Not defamation. Did she breach a promise of anonymity? Potentially, but that's a different kind of breach. If they wanted to have a lawsuit story, at least try to make it somewhat make sense. 

It's a cute show-- I just want it to have a little bit more depth.

[dubbel zout]

Ugh, the defamation story. First of all, how, exactly, was Morgan Stanley defamed? As BabyVegas pointed out, everything Jane wrote was true, and using the stage name of Morgan Stanley isn't exactly making yourself anonymous. Plus, if you don't want to be outed, so to speak, don't talk to a journalist who's going to publish your story in a national magazine! What was her goal here? Second, did no one edit, fact check, or legally vet the story before it was printed? Did Jane do any research at all? She misses the fact that Morgan Stanley has a kid? Jane sucks as a journalist. I get they don't want to show how the sausage is made—it's boring, and I say that as someone who works at magazines—but they could have paid some sort of lip service to it.

ETA: If anyone should sue for defamation (or copyright/trademark infringement, or any number of things), it's the company Morgan Stanley.

Then there's Sutton. How could she be that desperate for the fashion position without having a clue about the salary? It makes her looks completely stupid. And her reasoning for more perks—because she's not getting paid enough—is ludicrous. You get perks because you earn them.

Kat's story was rather abrupt. They go to all this trouble setting up her attraction to Adena and showing us it's mutual, then there's one hiccup and Adena is instantly flying back to Paris? (Side note: How does Adena afford a last-minute transatlantic ticket?)

Was anyone else surprised to learn Richard is part of the legal team? I thought he was a muckety-muck on the business side. Not that it matters to the show

3 hours ago, marny said:

It's a cute show-- I just want it to have a little bit more depth.

It gets a lot of things right, but it also drops the ball on some big stuff.

Edited August 2, 2017 by dubbel zout

[Jillybean]

This is a moderately entertaining summer show, but I have a hard time believing it's a remotely realistic depiction of life at a women's magazine.

Edited August 2, 2017 by Jillybean

[KaveDweller]

7 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Ugh, the defamation story. First of all, how, exactly, was Morgan Stanley defamed? As BabyVegas pointed out, everything Jane wrote was true, and using the stage name of Morgan Stanley isn't exactly making yourself anonymous. Plus, if you don't want to be outed, so to speak, don't talk to a journalist who's going to publish your story in a national magazine! What was her goal here? Second, did no one edit, fact check, or legally vet the story before it was printed? Did Jane do any research at all? She misses the fact that Morgan Stanley has a kid? Jane sucks as a journalist. I get they don't want to show how the sausage is made—it's boring, and I say that as someone who works at magazines—but they could have paid some sort of lip service to it.

ETA: If anyone should sue for defamation (or copyright/trademark infringement, or any number of things), it's the company Morgan Stanley.

Then there's Sutton. How could she be that desperate for the fashion position without having a clue about the salary? It makes her looks completely stupid. And her reasoning for more perks—because she's not getting paid enough—is ludicrous. You get perks because you earn them.

Kat's story was rather abrupt. They go to all this trouble setting up her attraction to Adena and showing us it's mutual, then there's one hiccup and Adena is instantly flying back to Paris? (Side note: How does Adena afford a last-minute transatlantic ticket?)

It gets a lot of things right, but it also drops the ball on some big stuff.

I was more wondering what details Jane published that revealed her identity. If Jane didn't even know she had a kid she couldn't have known much outside what they said in the interview. And if the stripper didn't want her identity outed, she should have been more careful about what she told Jane.

Was anyone else surprised to learn Richard is part of the legal team? I thought he was a muckety-muck on the business side. Not that it matters to the show

Richard is whatever they need him to be when they need a "business" person. In the pilot he was on the board and vetoing story ideas.  Usually that would be a different person than the actual practicing lawyer, but this is TV land and they don't want to focus on "boring" jobs like business stuff.

[Cassandre]

I think that you are focusing on the wrong things.  I know about unrealistic shows (I watch The Fosters...) but in The Bold Type this is not that annoying and can't keep me from following it. The show is getting so much love in the media and from the critics. There must be a reason. It's not the show of the year but it's definitely one of the best Freeform has done well lately. 

Edited August 3, 2017 by Cassandre

[kb3]

I find myself getting frustrated with Jane not listening to the advice that is given her. I get the enthusiastic, empowered, principled young writer. But for pete's sake listen to the lawyer.  When you're told to sit still and be quiet - do it.  Yes, it drives the story line but it's so frustrating to watch. Part of being an adult in a business is listening and learning.  I like the other two characters but keep wanting to give Jane a whack and knock the naivety out of her.

[retrograde]

12 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

Was anyone else surprised to learn Richard is part of the legal team? I thought he was a muckety-muck on the business side. Not that it matters to the show

Yes! I thought maybe I had just misunderstood his role at the company, but him being an in-house counsel was absolutely out of left field. $20 he's an editor in two weeks. 

I know we were supposed to side with Adena over Kat's freakout, but frankly I would've freaked out too if someone I just kissed after knowing for a hot second came on that strong. "I'm breaking up with my girlfriend of three years for you because what we have is so special and magical. You feel it too, right?" Yeesh. I'd run. 

For the most part I don't mind how unrealistic the magazine office is (it's definitely more realistic than many on tv shows; at least the characters are occasionally shown doing their actual jobs), but the editor in chief really bugs me. It's good she isn't a horrible tyrant, but she's too impossibly wise and intuitive and nurturing. There's no way an EIC of a magazine like that is even editing some rookie writer, let alone offering sage life lessons with every note.  In addition to what @funkopop said about every episode of this show being wrapped up too neatly, the editor woman is so often tying the bow with some heartfelt late-night advice. 

[twoods]

Are millennials this obsessed with texting and social media? I would be pissed if I was depicted as a flighty idiot. Was it necessary for the girls to text Kat while she was on the phone? Couldn't they have waited until she was done before they grill her? And don't get me started on Kat texting Adena that she couldn't do this anymore while she was at work, and then having Adena make some big scene at Kat's work. What is wrong with these people?

I still love Sutton even if she didn't even bother to ask about the salary before she took the job. I missed Pinstripe- he makes Jane tolerable. I'm wondering how Morgan's son's school found out she was a stripper. Was it that obvious in the article who they were talking about, or was there a picture?

[BabyVegas]

On 8/2/2017 at 10:06 PM, twoods said:

Are millennials this obsessed with texting and social media?

I can only speak for myself, but as a Millenial I've basically had to learn to breathe through it because I am constantly annoyed at how my generation is portrayed. I thought this show would be better because Freeform is usually inaccurate but not dickish. But, sadly the portrayal of Millenials is as broad and unbelievable as everything else.

[KaveDweller]

On 8/3/2017 at 1:06 AM, twoods said:

Are millennials this obsessed with texting and social media? I would be pissed if I was depicted as a flighty idiot. Was it necessary for the girls to text Kat while she was on the phone? Couldn't they have waited until she was done before they grill her? And don't get me started on Kat texting Adena that she couldn't do this anymore while she was at work, and then having Adena make some big scene at Kat's work. What is wrong with these people?

I still love Sutton even if she didn't even bother to ask about the salary before she took the job. I missed Pinstripe- he makes Jane tolerable. I'm wondering how Morgan's son's school found out she was a stripper. Was it that obvious in the article who they were talking about, or was there a picture?

Yeah, what was with them texting Kat while she was on the phone? Don't they get that Kat wouldn't have a real answer until the conversation ended? That was ridiculous. It would have been about two minutes.

I'd be curious what from Jane's article outed the strippers identity. 

[Mabinogia]

How is Jane, or Kat for that matter, even remotely successful? Both of them are so entitled they can't keep themselves from getting in their own way. Kat does seem to be learning but Jane drives me nuts!

I still adore Sutton. I feel like the other two have a tendency to dismiss her, when she has news they constantly override her with whatever is going on in their lives. I also find her storyline the most realistic because in reality ones dream job is usually the one that pays the least, because everyone wants it so they don't have to offer you more.

I don't exactly get why her relationship with Richard is a secret. He doesn't work in her department, she in no way reports to him, her boss doesn't report to him, he isn't married, so what's the big secret? Most companies only forbid relationships in a direct reporting capacity or in the same department. IDK, I feel like they are making a bigger deal out of it than it is. And, there is NO WAY there aren't cameras in the elevator so when they hook up in there all I think is "yeah, you're relationship isn't the secret you think it is, but the guards probably enjoy it lol"

[catrice2]

I'm sorry but Sam Page is not even remotely interesting as a love interest for Sutton.  How old are these girls supposed to be?  They seem to lack control of their emotions. 

[retrograde]

1 hour ago, catrice2 said:

How old are these girls supposed to be?  They seem to lack control of their emotions. 

I had thought 22ish -- maybe a year out of college -- but according to this episode: 25. Thinking back, Jane was supposed to have been working as an assistant for four years before being promoted to writer (which come to think of it explains why she's such a bad reporter, because she has zero experience) so I guess that'd be right. I do think making the worst possible romantic decisions is par for the course in your 20s, but these characters are also generally very immature at work for people four years into professional careers. 

[JasmineFlower]

First time I haven't liked Sutton was in this episode. No, Sutton, your boyfriend telling you about Morgan having a son is absolutely the point. Jane may not grasp that she's somewhat judgmental, but there is zero reason that your boyfriend should be sharing information with you about a freaking legal case to make sure you understand the seriousness of Morgan's claim, but doesn't say one word about it to Jane. That Jane was apologizing and Sutton didn't was ridiculous.

Should Jane have listened to Richard? Absolutely, but when Sutton is grasping the situation better than Jane, that is a problem that Jane isn't actually as responsible for as this episode made it seem by the end. Sutton was essentially sat down in a way Jane never was and told the particulars about the suit and the reasons behind it. Instead Jane was just told she was named in the suit, and patted on the head and told it would be taken care of, don't worry.. She shouldn't have flown off the cuff at the settlement conference, but Richard did nothing to ensure that Jane knew this wasn't merely about her personal representation or that resolving it would be better, not a detriment to it. It's Kat who comes from the cushier background, not Jane. Just putting the amount being sued in front of Jane's face and how much she could personally be liable for might have gotten the point across to her, let alone that Morgan actually suffered from the article. Instead, they said nothing, made Jane think it was Morgan just being money hungry and nothing else. It felt like the person who wrote this has never had any dealings with an actual lawsuit or settlement.

Morgan's case is slim at best, it's a bit bizarre how much of a thing this was. The club she danced at didn't even appear to be a private one, coupled with her granting the interview on her own, the claims of defamation were razor slim if not non existent. Two of the absolute defenses to defamation are truth and consent. So, what exactly were they going for here? In the future, it would seem best if they steered clear of the legal, this was one of the weaker storylines they've executed thus far.

 

Highly ridiculous that Sutton who is understandably pre-occupied with money didn't know her salary before she pursued and got the job with Oliver. Why go to the trouble of showing us how much money means to her then throw it away suddenly when the storyline calls for it? Even if she didn't know an exact number, there's no way she wouldn't have known a ballpark to expect and either planned for it or not gone after it. There's literally no way she reasonably thought something in ad sales and an assistant in the fashion department were getting paid anywhere near the same, one is on the creative side and one is on the business side and known to have a bonus structure.

 

I'd really like it if a man and woman on a show can just be friends for once. A straight man and a straight woman, it is possible. Sutton and Alex are cute, but as friends and nothing more. He doesn't have to be dating a friend of hers or vice versa to allow for the friendship, they can just be friends and work together and it not be a thing. Their support for each other at work has been a nice aspect of the show, I hope it remain with zero romantic undertones. As they go to the trouble to show how woke this show is, I'd like it if they can do something basic like this that so many shows never seem to be able to do.

 

One thing the show got very right this episode was Sutton looking into a move to Queens to save money and her friends telling her to stop being melodramatic. To say this convo has popped up among my friends when we were around this age is an understatement. Back then (15ish years ago), Queens was a no go to many as if it was another world, and so was more of Brooklyn not named Brooklyn Heights and Park Slope. Then it became somewhat reasonable to consider Astoria in Queens, but almost nowhere else there, and Brooklyn wasn't something to freak out about as much in general. It's so sad that this isn't an exaggeration as there's never been anything wrong with living in Queens or Brooklyn, but I have no doubt they are still acting as if it's a thing to leave the island of Manhattan.

 

About texting and social media, I find this to be a lot but I don't think it's incorrect either. Personally, not being a millennial, I'm amazed at the speed at which they text, tweet, and post to social media. Kat does it the way I've seen many others her age and younger do, though I'm sure there are outliers. But it's sort of a blink of an eye and it's out there with them, like the posts she was making for the Soul Wheel event. I don't get it, and I'm not meant to. I'd also be way more careful than Kat is about how she's going about doing it. Like having separate phones to ensure accidental tweets and texts aren't as much of a possibility not just being logged into the right account.

 

About age, of course they aren't 22 and right out of college. Kat and Jane are already in promotions and both went to college, Sutton has said she's been on Lauren's desk for 3 years more times than I can count and she has also said that was after temping before that and we know she graduated from Penn State. So, not 21 or 22, but mid-twenties. The show has been very clear on this.

 

About Richard and Sutton, their relationship would be a very big deal and could lead to problems if it was public. Usually, you need to disclose a relationship because of the potential problems that could arise. Think about when Sutton was going for the job with Oliver and the other one as well. Richard put in a word for her because he has the power to do so and in a general sense, he has the sway to get her moving up the ladder at the magazine, and that's the issue. They aren't anywhere close to the same level at the company, so in terms of being an HR issue, it would be for sure. One is in a clear position of power and the other isn't even though they aren't in the same dept. Had Sutton taken the ad sales job and gotten maybe one promotion, disclosing the relationship wouldn't result in many issues. At the assistant level? It's a problem. If it was Jane or Kat in a relationship with Richard at their current levels, it'd be less of an issue than him dating Sutton.

[Mabinogia]

It wouldn't be a problem if they were in the open because Richard wouldn't be asked for a recommendation, wouldn't be asked to interview her, because they would know about his bias. It is keeping it a secret that is causing any potential problems. Unless he is in HR or her direct supervisor, it would not be an issue if it was in the open. But it IS an issue because they are keeping it a secret. Any company I've worked for, and I've worked for many, only forbid relationships between direct reports, or in the same department.

Had Oliver known he was banging her, he wouldn't take Richard's recommendation seriously, and since Richard isn't HIS boss, he wouldn't feel any repercussions if he did not hire her.

[funkopop]

I believe in the first episode, Sutton mentions not wanting to be open with their relationship because of the stigma attached to it.   I think she stated that she didn't want to be seen as one of those girls that "slept their way up" or something.   But this was when Richard seemed to be one of the suits on the board instead of just the lawyer he is now.  It seems like they carried over her need of secrecy but changed the circumstances surrounding it.

[Cranberry]

They call it "screwed up," which is kind of clever.