S05.E07: Gag or Throttle

[possibilities]

I wouldn't say I LIKE Rachel, but this episode made me understand her more. I had the general idea of why she was who she is, but now I have a feeling for it, which makes a difference. It doesn't exactly redeem her, but it makes her more interesting and less just a character I hate in a one dimensional way.

[Loandbehold]

3 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

But I don't recall: Did Rachel start drinking before or after she saw that tablet with the infinity view of what her eye saw?

After. She took the tablet from PT (nee John)'s desk on the island. Well, it's possible that she had a drink or two before she left the island, but the gulping down the bottle was definitely after.

[Akenta]

14 hours ago, TrininisaScorp said:

 But, I'm worried for Helena and the babies.

Helena is the last clone I worry about...

[mahree]

12 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

Did Rachel start drinking before or after she saw that tablet with the infinity view of what her eye saw?

After.

[holly4755]

Part of the problem is that this new hair looks like a wig propped on her head.  But I did love that she got a "liver deep" tattoo. We need a tattoo redemption here. 

[carrps]

2 hours ago, holly4755 said:

Part of the problem is that this new hair looks like a wig propped on her head.  But I did love that she got a "liver deep" tattoo. We need a tattoo redemption here. 

Ha! Especially since Rachel is the one who is liver deep....in gin!

Intense. I also thought they might have faked Ira being dead to get Mark to more easily cooperate...the last of the Castors. But I sure hope Gracie and Mark on the sestras' side in this.

[sinkwriter]

Alison felt really foreign to me in this episode. I know she was probably supposed to seem that way (especially to her husband), since she'd been away trying to find herself, but ultimately I kept looking for a glimpse of the Alison we know within that new portrayal of her but couldn't seem to find her in there. It felt really strange. Especially with only 3 (?) episodes remaining - not a lot of time to sort out who she's trying to be now.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Behind the scenes:

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I always knew Rachel was straight out of Cold Bitch Digest but DAMN, she is pretty badass to stab herself in the eye to get rid of PT's camera. As soon as she realized he had been watching her (despite his previous promise that she would no longer have a monitor), she started drinking all day so that she could remove that eyeball. High five to Rachel for having such a well stocked bar in her office!

I have never liked Rachel but her story has always been interesting to me since she was the only Leda clone who was aware that she was a clone. It's not at all surprising that this made her feel like she was special and therefore somehow better than the other Leda sestras. She thought that her self-awareness and her position of power made her superior to the other clones, so it must have been extra crushing for her to discover that all this time that she thought she was independent, free, privy to all the information, etc. she has still been just another clone to PT. Also not surprising that little Rachel was trotted out like a performing monkey.

Although I'm glad that Rachel let Sarah take Kira away from Dyad AND that she had the courage to stab herself in the eye in order to free herself from PT's constant surveillance, I don't she is redeemable at this point. Yes, she has shown glimpses of humanity and now we can see how her very unusual upbringing created the Rachel we see now, she has tried to kill or harm the other clones too many times for her to be fully redeemed. Even if she tried to jump ship and join the sestras, I don't think that Sarah, Cosima, or Helena would ever fully trust her.

I'll be curious to see if Mark is really willing to betray Helena in order to be cured. I think if Coady asked him to give up Cosima or Alison, he'd be much more willing to do it, but knowing that Gracie bonded with Helena, I'm not sure if he's cold-hearted enough to give her to Coady or if he's just trying to get information from her. If he knows he's glitching, then he might be desperate enough to sacrifice Helena in the hopes of being cured and staying alive so he can be with Gracie. Heh, I never trusted the Castors (I was still suspicious of Ira until he died) so I don't know why I'm considering the possibility that Mark is not going to betray Helena.

I really try to be kind to child actors because, duh, they're still children, but I was cringing at little Rachel (aka Charlotte) attempting a British accent.

Poor sweet Donnie doesn't know how to react to the new artsy Alison. It can be hard when your significant other undergoes a significant change in both personality and appearance, especially at the same time. Imagine if your Wall Street spouse went off to find himself and then came home and told you that he was going to start selling tie dyed shirts on etsy for a living. That much of a change would be a lot to take in, and honestly I would be suspicious of how long that would last (which is why Donnie asked if Alison wanted to just put her craft stuff in storage instead of donating it). He probably thinks that she's going to wake up in two weeks and lament her impulsive decision to get rid of all her craft supplies.

I didn't think Tatiana's acting was off in the Alison/Donnie scene. The whole point of that scene was for us to see that Alison thinks that she has changed and is accordingly trying to make different choices. She's trying so hard to be the creative free spirit who she thinks she is now by making lots of changes - cutting her hair and getting purple streaks, wearing loose hippie shirts instead of fitted preppy argyle, letting go of her anal retentive crafting in exchange for art and music, telling Donnie that she isn't going to tell him what to do anymore, etc.

High five to Hell Wizard for finding faux PT's secret identity! We see him so rarely, but I love him.

Loved Scott's joy and relief at Cosima's return.

 

On 7/23/2017 at 9:24 AM, holly4755 said:

It has me questioning that they don't know Gracie is carrying Helena's fetusi (?).

The plural of fetus is fetuses :)

Edited July 28, 2017 by ElectricBoogaloo

[slaterain]

Wow - this episode was intense!!! I have always been a bit underwhelmed by Rachel-centric episodes as I felt she was so clearly painted as the villain. Yet this ep I was intrigued and fascinated and really enjoyed getting a full glimpse of Rachel. It explains so much - the self-awareness as a clone/object from so young, her domination in the bedroom (Ferdinand and Paul), and the quick personality switch after meeting Westmoreland. I had been wondering what it was that made her do such an about-face and it was that she thought she finally would be free. The moment with the eye-pad (HA!) was so shocking and well done!!! Loved her going to the meditation room and closing her eyes so that it would be "ok" for the camera to show black! I couldn't watch any of the eye gouging and was flinching even while not watching it waiting for the scene to be done. Glad she saved Kira but I do agree that while this was a huge step - I'm not sure the sisters will ever fully trust her/bring her in to the family.

I like the idea that Kira conned Rachel a bit but I do think a lot of it was how Kira knew Rachel was vulnerable and hurting with the empathic connection. And she truly does see them all as part of her family, even Rachel. The comment about the hand wringing was brilliant timing. 

Allison - my take on the whole thing is that it is a wig (or maybe that is just my hope). While they have been a bit off on their wig-game lately, I feel like this is Allison being herself and completely throwing herself into this new persona that she thinks she needs to be. I feel like we will see her find a balance in the last few eps as she realizes who she really is and some of that is her crazy type A controlling personality! And Donnie flinching at the glue gun was priceless! I almost missed it!

Cosima and Scott's reunion! all the feels!

I really hope Mark and Francie are going to be on the sisters' side. I do think Francie felt more responsible for what happened when she gave up the sisters thinking it would be ok and not realizing until too late how much of a betrayal it actually was. She didn't know everything and made a selfish call. So I hope that she feels she owes them. And they need to let Mark know through her that they have a cure for Lida so I assume one for Castor is possible via Cosima! 

[shapeshifter]

21 minutes ago, slaterain said:

…getting a full glimpse of Rachel. It explains so much - the self-awareness as a clone/object from so young, her domination in the bedroom (Ferdinand and Paul), and the quick personality switch after meeting Westmoreland. I had been wondering what it was that made her do such an about-face and it was that she thought she finally would be free. The moment with the eye-pad (HA!) was so shocking and well done!!! Loved her going to the meditation room and closing her eyes so that it would be "ok" for the camera to show black! I couldn't watch any of the eye gouging and was flinching even while not watching it waiting for the scene to be done. Glad she saved Kira but I do agree that while this was a huge step - I'm not sure the sisters will ever fully trust her/bring her in to the family.

I can totally see how the other clone sisters would remain distrustful of and even angry at Rachel. As a viewer, though, I have no problem forgiving the character.

[buttercupia]

if Helena can be forgiven because of her upbringing, Rachel can as well.

Rachel has been softening this season. Her dresses have been more flowy, her hair has been rougher, her makeup more natural. As agonizing as this episode was to watch, it was inevitable that Rachel would break from Dyad and Neolution/Westmoreland. 

[natyxg]

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I have never liked Rachel but her story has always been interesting to me since she was the only Leda clone who was aware that she was a clone. It's not at all surprising that this made her feel like she was special and therefore somehow better than the other Leda sestras. She thought that her self-awareness and her position of power made her superior to the other clones, so it must have been extra crushing for her to discover that all this time that she thought she was independent, free, privy to all the information, etc. she has still been just another clone to PT. Also not surprising that little Rachel was trotted out like a performing monkey.

I didn't really see it like this, specially after seeing her backstory. Rachel was not treated like she was special, she was treated like an experiment to her face. She had no autonomy, couldn't make any choices and no one seemed to see her like a person. I felt like they highlighted this over and over with the scene of her being shown around like a circus monkey, with the invasive examinations that she had no choice but to accept and then they wouldn't let her try to help in her own cure, when she tries to maintain her dignity during the examination with Coady (first trying to maintain her modesty when the covers were pulled up, then later when she asks for privacy to clean herself off), etc.  So I think that if Rachel acted as if she was superior to the other clones it was because all her life she felt powerless and inferior, and became obsessed with convincing herself that she was more important than the others and could rise inside Neolution/Dyad and be important. Her obsession with power and superiority came from feeling powerless and inferior since she was a little kid being treated like a lab rat. This is why PT "emancipating" her was such a turning point for her, and why finding out that it was all a lie was so devastating. She made it all the way to the very top, but still was just another subject to them, not a person. 

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Although I'm glad that Rachel let Sarah take Kira away from Dyad AND that she had the courage to stab herself in the eye in order to free herself from PT's constant surveillance, I don't she is redeemable at this point. Yes, she has shown glimpses of humanity and now we can see how her very unusual upbringing created the Rachel we see now, she has tried to kill or harm the other clones too many times for her to be fully redeemed. Even if she tried to jump ship and join the sestras, I don't think that Sarah, Cosima, or Helena would ever fully trust her.

I think Rachel is redeemable, I've always thought it. How many clones did Helena kill? And yet...

For me it's more a matter of time. There isn't time for a whole lot, so I don't see her fully joining the others and becoming part of the family. I think Rachel's ending will be about being free to be herself for the first time (the others at least thought they were free most of their lives, she didn't) and we'll see her going away by herself to face life as just Rachel.

[natyxg]

3 hours ago, slaterain said:

I like the idea that Kira conned Rachel a bit but I do think a lot of it was how Kira knew Rachel was vulnerable and hurting with the empathic connection. And she truly does see them all as part of her family, even Rachel. The comment about the hand wringing was brilliant timing.

I'm curious to see if in the next episode Kira will say something to the others about Rachel and then we'll see what she really thought of her. While Kira was not above conning Rachel, like she told Sarah, they have said that she has a connection with all the clones and I want to believe that in spite of it all she was sincere in her kindness to Rachel. It would be sad if Kira too was conning/using Rachel, I think, given the Rachel backstory they just gave us.

Edited July 28, 2017 by natyxg

[MissLucas]

6 hours ago, buttercupia said:

if Helena can be forgiven because of her upbringing, Rachel can as well.

 

While they both have been brainwashed and abused I have a hard time to see their situations as equal. Helena killed out of self-hatred to rid the world of 'abominations' like herself. Rachel's actions were dictated by her desire to keep her special status and remain in control (even if she wasn't) - that's why she enacted the Helsinki protocol. Helena was also able to leave her programming behind, embrace her sisters and put her life on the line for them. Rachel has so far refused to do the same despite several appeals from her sisters and Mrs S to do so. She might go down in a blaze of glory and get some redemption but forgiveness requires more than just an angry act of revenge against those who have wronged you and that also proves to be helpful to the people you have wronged - YMMV.

Edited July 28, 2017 by MissLucas

[ElectricBoogaloo]

One thing I liked about this episode was the parallel between Alison and Rachel. 

Quote

Alison: Could just be the dark parts of yourself, the subconscious desire that aren't necessarily good.
Donnie: Well if they're bad, don't we want to keep them in the dark?
Alison: No, because then they manifest in behavior - in my drinking and my need to control everything.
Donnie: So this is about your drinking?
Alison: Drinking is the effect of the unexplored shadow self.

Alison's attempt to find herself may have resulted in a bad haircut, but she did uncover at least one truth about herself. All this time she has been a tightly wound ball of stress. People who are control freaks like Alison and Rachel are often reacting to the chaos around them. Their control freak tendencies are an effort to exert control over some aspect of their lives because something else is making them feel powerless. Alison is trying to let go of that and she's making a very conscious decision to stop trying to control everything. 

Meanwhile, we see why Rachel was trying so hard to stay in control her entire life as a result of being the trained monkey who was brought out for the board, who knew exactly what she was, who didn't want to be treated like just another clone with a subject number, and how that led to her tightly controlled life, her dominance in sex with Ferdinand, etc. And even though I know all of her drinking this week was so she could yank out PT's eye camera, I thought it was also a nice contrast to Alison saying that trying to squash the dark parts of herself is what caused her to drink. 

[that one guy]

On 7/24/2017 at 7:33 PM, natyxg said:

On 7/24/2017 at 7:25 PM, Captanne said:

In other news, I watched an interview with Maslany someone here linked to the other day and she said that Rachel is her most difficult portrayal because she is so different from her natural personality.  (Which -- considering Helena -- really?  ~shudder~  LOL)

LOL. I laughed. If memory serves me right she used to say that Allison was the closest one to her.

I've heard that too, but I find it hard to believe. In interviews out of character, she makes this wry, sidelong expression - and on the show, Sarah, Cosima, and even Helena make the same face on occasion, and Alison never does. When I noticed this, I realized that to some degree all of the characters are partly her, but she differentiates by subtraction as well as addition. It's probably what's missing from Helena that's scary, as opposed to what's in there. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Closer look: the proclone

[AudienceofOne]

Great episode. Rachel has always been fed a line that somehow her self-awareness made her special, made her better than the other clones. She's always reminded me of a collaborator, somebody who's of the dominated class who's given special status and influence and sent to rule over them as one of their own. With that comes the implicit notion that the collaborator is somehow the superior being to the others while always containing the threat that they could be cast back down amongst them at any point. This episode did such a good job of stripping all that away and making her realise she's never had the power and autonomy they sold her. So glad I stuck with this show when I get episodes like this.

[Dobian]

That scene at the end was brutal.  I'm glad so much more time has been devoted to Rachel in the later seasons.  To me she is easily the most interesting of all the clones and the one I look forward the most to seeing, she just has so much going on.  Even with Helena being the most fun.