S02.E11: The Dubrovnik Wedgie

[Hockeymom]

9 hours ago, diadochokinesis said:

All the while, there is this opening for lead deckhand. She is getting more attention and time with Wes because of the relationship which puts her in a better position to get noticed for the "promotion".

Except that no one knew about the promotion - even Wes. That was a producer driven layer of complication no one saw coming. 

It may have turned out that she was in a better position, but I don't believe she planned it that way. Bobby already assumed he was Lead Deckhand, so I don't think Malia or Max saw it as an option. 

I mean, he's only her boss for what, eight weeks? That won't do her much good on the next boat. I think she just liked him. It doesn't have to be any more sinister than that. 

And we're so quick to blame Malia for "leading them on". But, neither of these two guys bowed out either. They are willing participants in this littlle adventure. Actually, even though I really like him, Wes is the most accountable. He has the career he wants and a position of authority at an early age. It's poor judgement on his part to jeopardize any of it. 

[diadochokinesis]

3 minutes ago, Hockeymom said:

Except that no one knew about the promotion - even Wes. That was a producer driven layer of complication no one saw coming. 

It may have turned out that she was in a better position, but I don't believe she planned it that way. Bobby already assumed he was Lead Deckhand, so I don't think Malia or Max saw it as an option. 

I mean, he's only her boss for what, eight weeks? That won't do her much good on the next boat. I think she just liked him. It doesn't have to be any more sinister than that. 

And we're so quick to blame Malia for "leading them on". But, neither of these two guys bowed out either. They are willing participants in this littlle adventure. Actually, even though I really like him, Wes is the most accountable. He has the career he wants and a position of authority at an early age. It's poor judgement on his part to jeopardize any of it. 

I'm speaking specifically after Sandy mentioned it to Wes. He turned around and told Malia. That was when she was texting Adam saying she didn't want to go out with Wes and then a couple of hours was making out with Wes on the bridge during anchor watch.  It is problematic and casts doubts on whether or not she really deserved the promotion.

[Hockeymom]

1 hour ago, diadochokinesis said:

I'm speaking specifically after Sandy mentioned it to Wes. He turned around and told Malia. That was when she was texting Adam saying she didn't want to go out with Wes and then a couple of hours was making out with Wes on the bridge during anchor watch.  It is problematic and casts doubts on whether or not she really deserved the promotion.

Exactly my point. Wes told Malia. It was his choice and his mistake to exclude the others. 

And maybe she was kissing Wes after that, but they had already established a pattern of interest. She didn't just decide out of the blue he was suddenly irresistible.

As far as the Adam text and when happened in the timeline, it could be editing. Even if it's not, life is fluid. Maybe she just changed her mind. Haven't you ever sworn off dessert, only to be tempted by something sweet? I don't see a "Jezebel". I just see a cute young girl enjoying her freedom.

[Passing Strange]

2 hours ago, MrSmith said:

All of this. Also, the bolded part, especially.

I don't only call women the village bicycle. Bobby's the male version of Malia, except that he isn't using his sexuality to get ahead. (Of course, maybe that's just because he hasn't had the opportunity to do so.) Ben is basically a man-whore. Ben is funny and so if he's ever on this show again, I'd still watch. He's definitely not someone I would want to be friends with in real life or would bother to go meet and get a picture with, even if he was only 20 feet from me. So, I don't have a double standard when it comes to men and women.

I dunno, it seems to me the fact that words like "man-whore" and "himbo" even exist indicates that we have a double standard. I guess I could get behind the notion of Ben being a man-whore, but, to me, what we know of Malia's sexual exploits--kissing two different men, a sexual relationship with one man and possibly another--doesn't warrant the "village bicycle" label.

[Passing Strange]

1 hour ago, Hockeymom said:

And we're so quick to blame Malia for "leading them on". But, neither of these two guys bowed out either. They are willing participants in this littlle adventure. Actually, even though I really like him, Wes is the most accountable. He has the career he wants and a position of authority at an early age. It's poor judgement on his part to jeopardize any of it. 

Exactly. Malia could only influence the guys to the extent that they allowed it. Where's the disapproval of their sexually motivated decision making? Wes especially should have known that someone in his position needed to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

26 minutes ago, Hockeymom said:

And maybe she was kissing Wes after that, but they had already established a pattern of interest. She didn't just decide out of the blue he was suddenly irresistible.

I think this is what negates the "she slept her way to the top" argument. I don't believe Malia is clever enough to have begun a flirtation just in case she had a chance to use it to get ahead.

[MrSmith]

55 minutes ago, Passing Strange said:

Exactly. Malia could only influence the guys to the extent that they allowed it. Where's the disapproval of their sexually motivated decision making? Wes especially should have known that someone in his position needed to avoid even the appearance of impropriety.

I've criticized Wes for this. I've said he's an idiot (or something similar) for getting involved with his subordinate. Doing this has completely compromised him. He put himself in a position where he couldn't promote her without the response being "Well, you're kissing/dating/whatever her. So, of course you promoted her!" And he put himself in a position where he couldn't NOT promote her with her response being "Well, you're only not promoting me because you're kissing/dating/whatever me." In both instances, he can't prove the accusation to be false. Bobby should stop pouting about it and being a dick to him about it. Instead, Bobby should just go talk to the captain about the situation and the weeks leading up to it.

Quote

I think this is what negates the "she slept her way to the top" argument. I don't believe Malia is clever enough to have begun a flirtation just in case she had a chance to use it to get ahead.

I disagree. She knew Wes was her boss. She slept with her last captain and, according to her, "that didn't end well". So, she knows that sleeping with her superiors is a bad idea and she knows this from first-hand experience. If she really wanted to avoid being accused of sleeping her way to the top, then she would have rebuffed Wes' advances and would not have flirted with him, to say nothing of kissing him or whatever else they may have done. That's what professional women the world over do, especially women who want to be taken seriously and valued for their job skills instead of their "job" skills. So even if she didn't think that flirting, kissing, etc with Wes was going to get her a promotion, she certainly knew in advance that it would almost certainly blow up in her face. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to compare sleeping with her last captain to flirting with and kissing her current boatswain.

[Kiss my mutt]

Bobby is such an immature loser! I can't believe he used the example that he got a 50 cent raise after a month of working at a surf shop as an example of his work ethic and why he should be lead deckhand.  

I don't find him very good tv but he's got the annoying personality down pat.  I can't believe that he was recommended for this show by several people. And that girls actually sleep with him willingly.  

[Neurochick]

On July 19, 2017 at 11:20 AM, Hockeymom said:

 

I don't get all the hate towards Bugs. Calling her Fugly is pretty harsh. Her big crime is that she chafes under Hanna's rule? Every deck hand has said they want to be a captain. But when Bugs shows ambition she's ugly? Every one of us would have looked at that iPad. Who among us wouldn't spill a little tea on a boss we didn't like? I get that she can be a little smug. But Fugly? 

 

So if you work in a hotel and saw someone's iPad open, you'd look inside?I wouldn't have looked at the iPad, sorry, that's something a very immature person would do.  

Malia wasn't wrong for dating two guys at the same time.  It's fine to play the field, but you don't hook up with two guys who are working together and sharing a bunk, especially when one of them is your boss.  I don't like Adam but goodness, don't text the guy after you've made out with man #2.

I watched the "fight" between Adam and Wes.  Adam was an ass, Wes slapped the phone out of Adam's hand and then Adam hit Wes.  Is Wes a moron?  How did he think it would go over, him promoting Malia, after he hooked up with her?  I can't stand Malia sitting there like, "it's not my fault I'm a cute, female deckhand."  No, Malia, you can't help how you look, but you can help how you act.

Edited July 24, 2017 by Neurochick

[Hockeymom]

3 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

So if you work in a hotel and saw someone's iPad open, you'd look inside?I wouldn't have looked at the iPad, sorry, that's something a very immature person would do.  

Malia wasn't wrong for dating two guys at the same time.  It's fine to play the field, but you don't hook up with two guys who are working together and sharing a bunk, especially when one of them is your boss.  I don't like Adam but goodness, don't text the guy after you've made out with man #2.

If it's the hotel's iPad , then yes. It wasn't the guest's property. It belonged to the boat.

And if Malia wasn't wrong for dating two guys, why is it wrong for her to text man #2?

I do agree it's a little tricky when they share a bunk. 

[Neurochick]

4 minutes ago, Hockeymom said:

And if Malia wasn't wrong for dating two guys, why is it wrong for her to text man #2?

 

She's not wrong to date two guys, she's wrong to date two guys who live in close quarters, especially when one of them is your boss.

And I wouldn't look at someone's else's messages, any more than I would read someone else's mail.

[ShawnaLanne]

On 7/19/2017 at 7:08 AM, PumpkinPK said:

I don't find Malia anything super-special, either.  I asked my husband what he thought of her and I'm embarrassed to post his answer, but here goes.  He said she reminds him of a blonde, cute/not sexy, tiny version of Angelina Jolie and that if he was working on the boat 20 years younger and hadn't met me yet he'd probably be into her.  I really wish I hadn't asked.

Angelina Jolie? I didn't see that one coming. 

[Passing Strange]

6 hours ago, MrSmith said:

I've criticized Wes for this. I've said he's an idiot (or something similar) for getting involved with his subordinate. Doing this has completely compromised him. He put himself in a position where he couldn't promote her without the response being "Well, you're kissing/dating/whatever her. So, of course you promoted her!" And he put himself in a position where he couldn't NOT promote her with her response being "Well, you're only not promoting me because you're kissing/dating/whatever me." In both instances, he can't prove the accusation to be false. Bobby should stop pouting about it and being a dick to him about it. Instead, Bobby should just go talk to the captain about the situation and the weeks leading up to it.

I disagree. She knew Wes was her boss. She slept with her last captain and, according to her, "that didn't end well". So, she knows that sleeping with her superiors is a bad idea and she knows this from first-hand experience. If she really wanted to avoid being accused of sleeping her way to the top, then she would have rebuffed Wes' advances and would not have flirted with him, to say nothing of kissing him or whatever else they may have done. That's what professional women the world over do, especially women who want to be taken seriously and valued for their job skills instead of their "job" skills. So even if she didn't think that flirting, kissing, etc with Wes was going to get her a promotion, she certainly knew in advance that it would almost certainly blow up in her face. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to compare sleeping with her last captain to flirting with and kissing her current boatswain.

I agree that Wes made a poor decision and that Bobby's behavior is immature.

You're right, Malia herself told us she knew getting involved with a superior was a bad idea. Her best bet might have been to do as she once proposed and keep away from both men. She didn't. What you're saying is she knew that type of relationship was a  gamble, so she must have done it for advancement. We've seen nothing on the show that supports that. What we have seen is that she likes Wes. Malia and Wes both made poor decisions for the same reason, romantic infatuation. Foolish maybe, but it doesn't make Malia either conniving or promiscuous.

2 hours ago, Hockeymom said:

I do agree it's a little tricky when they share a bunk. 

I think "a little tricky" is a good way of putting this. Malia came into the situation with an attachment of sorts to Adam. She met Wes and developed feelings for him. It's not Malia's fault that Wes and Adam shared a bunk, nor is she responsible for how they feel about it. It's hard to have a life and not find yourself in a sticky situation once in a while. The trick to being an adult is to find a way to get through the tough times, possibly with a little grace if you can manage it.  Wes actually seemed to be doing a decent job of it. Adam is so selfish, arrogant and thoughtless of others that I can't bring myself to clutch my pearls over his inability to act like a grown up.

[Diane Mars]

My problem reagrding the Malia and Adam vs. Wes situation is that while Adam is in the know, Wes is not... It's totally diffferent than meeting the two guys at the same time, playing with them, etc... She was with Adam BEFORE going on the Sirocco, THEY decided to not tell anyone, and, in my books, Malia used it to the expense of Adam. And THAT is not correct ! She duped Adam by "playing" WITH Wes.

You can't have it both ways, poor little stupid 26 y.o. female deckhand ! And NO, your acting ways are NOT correct.

Karma is a bitch, Bitch.... Wait and see ^_^

Edited July 25, 2017 by Diane Mars

[MrSmith]

12 hours ago, Hockeymom said:

If it's the hotel's iPad , then yes. It wasn't the guest's property. It belonged to the boat.

And if Malia wasn't wrong for dating two guys, why is it wrong for her to text man #2?

I do agree it's a little tricky when they share a bunk. 

I don't understand what is so difficult for people to understand that ownership of the iPad is immaterial; what matters is who owns the content you're viewing. Reading someone else's text messages and emails is the same as reading their mail. Do you run around reading your neighbors' mail? If not, why do you think you have the right to read someone else's text messages and emails? And why do you suppose people put notices of confidentiality at the bottom of confidential emails? Hmmmm? Seriously, that's not a rhetorical question. I genuinely would like to know what you think about this subject.

Malia was wrong to text "man #2" (Adam) because she had publicly told people that she wasn't interested in him and explicitly made this point in private with Wes. Furthermore, she shouldn't have been dating her boss. Dating the chef? Sure! Knock yourself out, unless the chef is your boss, of course.

[MrSmith]

10 hours ago, Passing Strange said:

I agree that Wes made a poor decision and that Bobby's behavior is immature.You're right, Malia herself told us she knew getting involved with a superior was a bad idea. Her best bet might have been to do as she once proposed and keep away from both men. She didn't. What you're saying is she knew that type of relationship was a  gamble, so she must have done it for advancement. We've seen nothing on the show that supports that. What we have seen is that she likes Wes. Malia and Wes both made poor decisions for the same reason, romantic infatuation. Foolish maybe, but it doesn't make Malia either conniving or promiscuous.

Please point out where I have said she has done what she has done for advancement. There's nowhere that I've said that, either implicitly or explicitly. I mentioned comparing sleeping with her previous captain to flirting with/kissing/whatever her current boatswain in the context of her knowing how the situation will end - i.e. "that didn't end well". After all, they're similar situations: she is involved with her superior on a romantic level. (We can debate, pointlessly, how much romance there is in just getting it on, if you really insist.) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize they're similar situations. In the future, please just respond to what I've written and not what you think I'm thinking. OK? Thanks.

Quote

I think "a little tricky" is a good way of putting this. Malia came into the situation with an attachment of sorts to Adam. She met Wes and developed feelings for him. It's not Malia's fault that Wes and Adam shared a bunk, nor is she responsible for how they feel about it. It's hard to have a life and not find yourself in a sticky situation once in a while. The trick to being an adult is to find a way to get through the tough times, possibly with a little grace if you can manage it.  Wes actually seemed to be doing a decent job of it. Adam is so selfish, arrogant and thoughtless of others that I can't bring myself to clutch my pearls over his inability to act like a grown up.

You're right that Malia is responsible neither for the fact that these two share a bunk nor for how they react. However, she knows (even if not from first-hand experience) that dating your boss means that other people are going to look askance at any promotions you get. She also knows it isn't professional to date your boss. However, she chose to date her boss anyway and now is trying to blame the uproar over her promotion on her looks instead of her behaviour. That's someone who is either intelligent and very cunning or terribly stupid and completely oblivious. Given that she's 26 and inexperienced, I'll go with the latter, especially since it agrees with Hanlon's Razor.

As for Adam acting like a grown up man, Adam should terrify everyone with his behaviour - especially that of late. His behaviour is that of someone who is possessive, controlling, selfish, egotistical, and unempathetic - and that, to me, is someone who is capable of a great deal of violence.

Edited July 25, 2017 by MrSmith

[Giselle]

14 hours ago, Hockeymom said:

If it's the hotel's iPad , then yes. It wasn't the guest's property. It belonged to the boat.

And if Malia wasn't wrong for dating two guys, why is it wrong for her to text man #2?

I do agree it's a little tricky when they share a bunk. 

So then if I worked for a library  and you happened to not log off a public computer It would be ok for me to go through your email and call over another clerk to check it out and then talk about it with all the staff. It's ok for me to keep your account open and read through out the day. I mean after all it is the library's computer.

Got it! 

Edited July 25, 2017 by Giselle

[Passing Strange]

1 hour ago, MrSmith said:

Please point out where I have said she has done what she has done for advancement. There's nowhere that I've said that, either implicitly or explicitly. I mentioned comparing sleeping with her previous captain to flirting with/kissing/whatever her current boatswain in the context of her knowing how the situation will end - i.e. "that didn't end well". After all, they're similar situations: she is involved with her superior on a romantic level. (We can debate, pointlessly, how much romance there is in just getting it on, if you really insist.) It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize they're similar situations. In the future, please just respond to what I've written and not what you think I'm thinking. OK? Thanks.

Okay:

On 7/20/2017 at 9:31 AM, MrSmith said:

Contrast that to Malia who doesn't seem to know herself very well, uses her sexuality to advance her career because she lacks the self-confidence to do it without using her sexuality, and is still at the stage where she's just DTF and is (mystifyingly) enjoying exploring what it's like to be the village bicycle.

As for the romance, both Wes and Malia have expressed romantic feelings for each other. Now, either of them could be misrepresenting, but until we have proof that contradicts that, I'm going with romance.

[MrSmith]

@Passing Strange Hmmm. I forgot about that. Now I'm trying to figure out how to reword that to convey what I meant because I didn't mean it to be quite that black and white. If I can figure out how to reword it, I will. Otherwise, I'll just have to leave it alone. :(

[Passing Strange]

1 hour ago, MrSmith said:

@Passing Strange Hmmm. I forgot about that. Now I'm trying to figure out how to reword that to convey what I meant because I didn't mean it to be quite that black and white. If I can figure out how to reword it, I will. Otherwise, I'll just have to leave it alone. :(

I think what you wanted to say was what you said in your second post about it: Malia had a previous subordinate/superior relationship that ended badly, so it shouldn't come as a surprise if the same thing happens with this one. If so, we're good.

[MrSmith]

12 minutes ago, Passing Strange said:

I think what you wanted to say was what you said in your second post about it: Malia had a previous subordinate/superior relationship that ended badly, so it shouldn't come as a surprise if the same thing happens with this one. If so, we're good.

That's probably the best approximation because I really, genuinely do not believe she anticipated a promotion would be possible. So, there's no way she could have planned to get involved with Wes in order to facilitate a promotion or even on the off-chance a promotion would become a possibility.

Edited July 25, 2017 by MrSmith

[Passing Strange]

2 hours ago, MrSmith said:

That's probably the best approximation because I really, genuinely do not believe she anticipated a promotion would be possible. So, there's no way she could have planned to get involved with Wes in order to facilitate a promotion or even on the off-chance a promotion would become a possibility.

It looks like we have no choice but to agree to agree. :) Thanks for taking the time to clear up the misunderstanding.

[Chalby]

On 7/19/2017 at 4:23 AM, Sai said:

 I'm damn glad she squealed on Malia.  Malia's games have been going on long enough and it' about time she got busted.  Right now only Adam knows what is really going on.  Wes is still clueless and I need him to find out that Malia and Adam hooked up before the cruise and I need Wes to find out about the lovey dovey texts she sending to Adam the very same night she was making out with Wes.

I have only just been seeing re-runs of this show (hence my LATE post). I agree that Malia was keeping her options open by texting two crew at the same time. However, she didn't deny it once confronted BUT there's no need for anyone to slut shame her. No one has put a ring on her finger, and it's not like she had sex with either Wes or Adam. She's guilty of flirting with all the guys, but does she need to be publicly shamed for it? Nah... She now knows not to sh** where she eats.