S03.E07: Wish I Could Believe You

[FormerMod-a1]

Quote

A familiar face returns as one of the Raza crew learns a game changing bombshell about their past.

[wanderingstar]

Poor Six. Between those Ferrous Corp goons messing with this mind and finding out his wife and son have moved on, he was put through the wringer in this episode. Glad to get some of his background though. 

I thought it was funny that one of the cues for Six that something was up was Three being altruistic about the colonists.

Wonder what Sara is hiding about Three's past. 

The ending with the Android walking from room to room, and holding a gun on Three was super creepy. 

Edited July 15, 2017 by Gillian Rosh

[Chaos Theory]

Obsessed with doing the right thing and pretty bad with weighing the cost.  That is our Six.

[snowwhyte]

So, are we assuming that Sarah was somehow able to take over the android's body while she was in sleep mode?  Maybe she wants revenge against Three for some awful thing he did to her? 

[Paloma]

Although I was happy to have Six back, I was really confused throughout the episode. Ultimately I understood most of it, but I'm still not sure at what point Six was able to overpower his captors and take over. There was a scene where he momentarily got free, but then one of them shot him. At first I thought that was another false image or memory. Did Six take over at the point where he momentarily got free and then made them think that one of them shot him? 

[snowwhyte]

Yeah, I found the Six thing confusing. I rewatched it to see if I missed anything. Six's explanation wasn't great but he claimed that one of the tech's had the info he wanted but wouldn't give it up so I think Six's escape happened like we saw up until the scene of him being shot. He got loose and tied up the techs. One tech was willing to give up the info but didn't have it. The other tech had the info but wouldn't give it up so Six put the tech in the machine and recreated his escape in order to get the Traugott information. 

[mjc570]

Much as I like this show, I am getting a little tired of the false/manipulated memory/alternates approach.  It almost seems like every week this is the approach taken.  I do enjoy it, but at some point I would like to see some forward motion (or, an actual plot), not just a few minutes at the end. I'm really getting the feeling that the writers don't really know the end point here.. 

[DEM]

And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful house
And you may tell yourself
This is not my beautiful wife

 

I suspected something was hinky during the very first infirmary scene because Two was so hot to rescue the council. I was tentative because this show is so shaky about Two's characterization, so what seemed OOC to me might not have been to the writers (RME), but by the mess hall scene with Three and Five being so ADAMANT that Six's logic didn't make sense I was sure something was up. Even though I remained wary throughout the story, I still enjoyed all the twists and turns!

The neurotoxin + mind-probe was a clever way to dig up some of Six's old memories. Damn, Six has been through a lot of shit!

Speaking of neurotoxin, did it sound to anyone else like some of the cast were sometimes saying 'neural toxin'? Their pronunciations definitely were not consistent. Kinda bugged me.

4 hours ago, Paloma said:

There was a scene where he momentarily got free, but then one of them shot him. ... Did Six take over at the point where he momentarily got free and then made them think that one of them shot him?

I think so.  Lucky Six learned how to use that highly specialised equipment so quickly and with such proficiency, eh?  Hee!

So now that Six is back on board I suppose he and Two are going to restart their debate over being guardians of the galaxy?  I'm guessing -- from a meta POV -- that Six is going to win the argument because of the simple fact that he said they should ally with Mikkei and Two didn't point out to him that they already are.  I wasn't expecting Two's emerging vexation about social belonging, and although I remain bitter that the writers seemed to have dropped the exploration of this via interaction with The Android ("What does it mean to be human? Compare and contrast, etc."), at least Two's personal arc has arrived.  The scene was Sarah was unexpected!

I agree with snowwhyte that it's likely Sarah took over The Android. Funnily enough, during the Two/Sarah scene I thought that someone ought to be worried about system security!

Edited July 15, 2017 by DEM

[MissLucas]

That one's not going to be a favorite. There were too many plot holes in the lab setting. But it was a way to get Six back on board and give us some of his backstory so there's that.

Sarah's plot all of a sudden became really intriguing. I would never have thought it was her taking over the Android but that's a great theory. I'm still confused how Five managed to upload her and why the crew is not more worried about having such a powerful AI residing within the ship's computer. I can't remember Four being weird around Three after he got his memory restored - definitely an interesting detail.

[2727]

Minimal scheming from the Ishida crew this week, so that was good.

Six has become entirely too meek lately. Some viewers were annoyed at One for being a bit of a namby pamby, goody two shoes in the first season, and even though I always liked One, Six is starting to gnaw on my last nerve with his constant, soft-voiced platitudes.

Thanks for the explanations of the lab switcheroo. The writers could have chosen to make it clear what happened but they'd rather tease us that Six is dead.

Can't wait to see what my favorite Android gets up to next week! Should be interesting if Sarah has taken over her body -- we know the Sarah story arc can't continue being static. (Although the idea of sex with a virtual being raised some interesting questions in my mind.)

Edited July 15, 2017 by 2727

[jhlipton]

11 hours ago, Paloma said:

Did Six take over at the point where he momentarily got free and then made them think that one of them shot him? 

I think so too.  A little back-filling wouldn't have hurt.

7 hours ago, DEM said:

I suspected something was hinky during the very first infirmary scene because Two was so hot to rescue the council.

I was wondering why they were doing CPR and using an old-style defib (they may have done defib before but that whole scene was WTF for me), so as soon as Six was asked for the coordinates, I figured something was up. 
 

[call me ishmael]

16 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

So, are we assuming that Sarah was somehow able to take over the android's body while she was in sleep mode?  Maybe she wants revenge against Three for some awful thing he did to her? 

I couldn't tell if Sarah was reacting because of something Three had done to her of if it was something he did for her.  It looked like she was worried he would remember.  I wonder if "she" was checking out whether she could make the Android kill him if he remembers and is thinking of either leaving her again or having Five shut her down.

Maybe if she starts calling him Dave we will know.

Edited July 16, 2017 by call me ishmael
Forgot something

[jhlipton]

BTW, I took a camera shot of what Six saw on the medical monitor and someone had fun making it up:

Someone really likes kumquats, too!

[Wouter]

On 15/7/2017 at 1:41 PM, snowwhyte said:

So, are we assuming that Sarah was somehow able to take over the android's body while she was in sleep mode?  Maybe she wants revenge against Three for some awful thing he did to her? 

That seems to be what the writers are suggesting. Maybe misdirection, though.

On 15/7/2017 at 4:37 PM, Paloma said:

Although I was happy to have Six back, I was really confused throughout the episode. Ultimately I understood most of it, but I'm still not sure at what point Six was able to overpower his captors and take over. There was a scene where he momentarily got free, but then one of them shot him. At first I thought that was another false image or memory. Did Six take over at the point where he momentarily got free and then made them think that one of them shot him? 

Apparently, Six got out pretty much like that scene played out, but he didn't actually get shot. We were already in the next simulation, this time from the Ferrous guy POV.

I did like that the suppressed memories was what made an otherwise bullet-proof method fail.

On 15/7/2017 at 5:07 PM, snowwhyte said:

Yeah, I found the Six thing confusing. I rewatched it to see if I missed anything. Six's explanation wasn't great but he claimed that one of the tech's had the info he wanted but wouldn't give it up so I think Six's escape happened like we saw up until the scene of him being shot. He got loose and tied up the techs. One tech was willing to give up the info but didn't have it. The other tech had the info but wouldn't give it up so Six put the tech in the machine and recreated his escape in order to get the Traugott information. 

 

On 15/7/2017 at 9:33 PM, DEM said:

I think so.  Lucky Six learned how to use that highly specialised equipment so quickly and with such proficiency, eh?  Hee

That's why the point was made that one of the Ferrous guys was willing to cooperate, but lacked the info Six needed (the coordinates of the Ferrous ship they were on). He probably gave a "crash course" to Six. And let's face it, all the Raza crewmembers seem to be prodigies in one or more ways (even Three, he is an extraordinary gunslinger), so Six is a really fast learner I guess. What I liked was that this episode acknowledged that Six can control the Raza (without Android assistance), as he should be able to given that he has no problems with flying the Marauder. Previously, only Two had done anything of the sort.

 

Lt.Anders was used again as the friendly helper within the GA. This makes me wonder what the point of Kierken was, last season.

I had hoped that Four avoiding Three (after regaining his memories, before going "full Ryo") had something to do with the murder of Derrick Moss' wife. Now it seems it may have something do with Sarah. Makes me a bit doubtful that the Derrick Moss storyline will ever be revisited.

Edited July 16, 2017 by Wouter

[thuganomics85]

Episode pretty much had all the classic "character put in a visual simulation by bad guys in order to get info" tropes and twists (including the obvious fake "He's out, but not really!" bit), but I can't complain too much about more Roger Cross and Six finally coming back to the team.  I did like that Six was able to figure things out pretty quickly, although  it really was a big freaking warning sign that even Three was all considered about the coordinates.  The only thing that would have made the first attempt more obvious would have been if Ryo called the ship was like "I will drop my hunt for you if you just give me the coordinates!"

At least Six gets a decent amount of his memories back.  He use to have a wife and child, but they left him after he picked the job over them, and now they've moved on with someone else.  At least Six got to see them from afar and got closure on this aspect of his life.  Of course, it's obvious that the Raza crew is his new family now!

I do love how much Nieman seems to scary everyone.  Granted, after the actor's time as Duval on Orphan Black, I'd be scared too, probably.

Sarah is becoming even more suspicious.  And then there was that whole thing with the Android pointing a gun at a sleeping Three, which didn't even occur to me that she was being controlled by Sarah, but makes sense.  I wonder what it is that has her spooked about him.

Next week's previews look somewhat Two-centric which is good, because she's been a bit in the background so far this season.  Need more of my Melissa O'Neil being badass and gorgeous!
 

[tennisgurl]

Six has returned from every other show in Canada to hang with the Raza gang again! The whole episode was very Inception style (this season has gotten super trippy, hasn't it?), so it was confusing, but I think I followed it enough. Plus, maybe now that Six got some of his memories back, he can just commit to being with the Raza crew, instead of running off to find himself every other day. He got some closure, so now he can focus on his new life. As Five pointed out, if he gets too many memories back, we might get another Ryo situation on our hands. Alright, it wasn't really Five, but still. Four wasn't Ryo either, after all. *Sigh* I still miss Four.

So it looks like the Sarah plot has gotten interesting. I've never fully trusted this virtual Sarah, but if it really is Sarah taking over the Android, this isn't going to end well at all. Is this whole thing an attempt at getting revenge on Three for something he did back before he lost his memory? Because, if it is, isn't it kind of pointless, knowing that Three has no memory of anything he dud before? Either way, that was a super creepy sequence. I'm surprised that Two didn't feel a little suspicious of her right away. Even for their lives, her friends terminally ill girlfriend showing up as some kind of virtual person he's sleeping with cant be normal.

Next week looks Two centric, so I'm super pumped for that. Also, now that they aren't weirdly looking up, I really enjoy Two and Three hanging out. They're platonic chemistry is really enjoyable.

[jhlipton]

23 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Even for their lives, her friends terminally ill girlfriend showing up as some kind of virtual person he's sleeping with cant be normal.

LOL.  But I'm not sure about that...  Is it weirder than a device that makes you live Groundhog Day?  Or thoroughly wipes your knowledge of all your past actions, but leaves your skills intact?  Or an Android with killer fashion sense (even before she got the "human upgrade") for that matter?

[call me ishmael]

Not to mention all the clones.

 

but it did seem as if they were all shocked that Five was able to pull it off.

[Clanstarling]

On 7/15/2017 at 0:33 PM, DEM said:

I agree with snowwhyte that it's likely Sarah took over The Android. Funnily enough, during the Two/Sarah scene I thought that someone ought to be worried about system security!

 

On 7/17/2017 at 0:23 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Sarah is becoming even more suspicious.  And then there was that whole thing with the Android pointing a gun at a sleeping Three, which didn't even occur to me that she was being controlled by Sarah, but makes sense.  I wonder what it is that has her spooked about him.

Boy, I must have turned it off before the final scene (or else I just spaced out, as it were) because I don't remember anything like that. Curses!

I assumed (with what now I know is incomplete information) that virtual Sarah had access to everyone's memories back when (she died before 4 got his memory back, right? So she was uploaded while they were still in the computer?), and knew what Ryo was hiding from him. Plus there's that old bit about Three being wanted for the murder of Derek Moss' wife. But I guess that take would be irrelevant if it was indeed Sarah taking over the Android's body (though you'd think there'd be failsafes of some sort).

I liked the "is it a dream" confusion, even if it is an old standard. They did it pretty well, all things considered. I knew the first "back home on the Raza" was not real when they went straight from the lab to the Raza. The abrupt cuts were the key, for me.

Edited July 19, 2017 by Clanstarling

[call me ishmael]

6 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

 

I assumed (with what now I know is incomplete information) that virtual Sarah had access to everyone's memories back when (she died before 4 got his memory back, right? So she was uploaded while they were still in the computer?), and knew what Ryo was hiding from him. Plus there's that old bit about Three being wanted for the murder of Derek Moss' wife. But I guess that take would be irrelevant if it was indeed Sarah taking over the Android's body (though you'd think there'd be failsafes of some sort).

I liked the "is it a dream" confusion, even if it is an old standard. They did it pretty well, all things considered. I knew the first "back home on the Raza" was not real when they went straight from the lab to the Raza. The abrupt cuts were the key, for me.

Edited 6 hours ago by Clanstarling.

Maybe Sarah IS Derek Moss's wife ?

[jhlipton]

9 hours ago, call me ishmael said:

Maybe Sarah IS Derek Moss's wife ?

Dun dun DUNNNNNNN!!!!