Let's try to market this: media, articles and interviews

[AndySmith]

Because my opinion of whether I think she can pull of being a sexpot is just as valid any other opinion on here? It is no more "negative" than just about any other counter opinion people have of someone's acting ability, singing ability, looks, etc.

[Hana Chan]

The problem with Lea's "sexy" looks is that she appears (to me at least) that she is trying way too hard. With the women who I genuinely find sexy, it's nearly effortless. They don't have to try to be sexy. They just are. And not by doing deliberately sexy poses or affectations. Just by being themselves. Trying to be sensual or provocative usually ends up having the opposite effect with me.

 

Lea is her sexiest when she's actually not trying to be. When she's casual and not putting on a show for the camera. But her efforts at sexy, like her On My Way music video... that just left me cold.

[AndySmith]

^^ Pretty much. I haven't seen the video, I was mainly referring to her appearences on the red carpet. When she poses naturally and has a genuine smile, she usually looks great. It's when she strikes a pose and tries to go for the "come hither" look as if she's in her first week of America's Next Top Model...thats when she loses me.

Edited April 23, 2015 by AndySmith

[caracas1914]

i love the photo of Lea and cat.

[fakeempress]

Lea's Most Beautiful video

[dizzyizzy01]

Because my opinion of whether I think she can pull of being a sexpot is just as valid any other opinion on here? It is no more "negative" than just about any other counter opinion people have of someone's acting ability, singing ability, looks, etc.

I'm not saying it's not a valid opinion.  It's a completely valid opinion, but I don't believe anyone was talking about her being sexy or not so I didn't really think there was necessarily anything to counter.  For example, it's kind of like if someone commented and praised Chris' acting and the response is basically yep, he's a good actor  but when he tries to sing it's nails on a chalkboard (caveat:  I think Chris is a good singer, it's just an example).  It's fair to say the points are related, but I can also see the POV why that response is off-putting.

 

ETA:  LOL.  Brian and Sheila getting married.  That's pretty hilarious.

Edited April 23, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[truthaboutluv]

I don't think that's the same thing though. I kind of just took the comment as an "I like this look and this version of her more than when she's trying too hard to be sexy". It essentially is about the same thing and preferring one type of look to another. But honestly, is it that serious?

[tom87]

Serious no,  but I just do not  get how that simple unassuming picture in People solicited  2 negative responses about her and or her appearance.   It just seemed completely unnecessary yet again.

Edited April 23, 2015 by tom87

[dizzyizzy01]

No.  Of course, it's not serious at all.  I don't think anything on this board should be taken seriously ;).

[truthaboutluv]

Serious no,  but I just do not  get how that simple unassuming picture in People solicited  2 negative responses about her and or her appearance.   It just seemed completely unnecessary yet again.

 

I guess I just didn't read the initial comment as negative. It to me was more of an "I like this more than other stuff she's done."  I guess it's like if she released a song and someone said "I like this kind of stuff from Lea more than the belting stuff" or something like that. That to me wouldn't read as negative but I guess one would argue it could have just been left at "I like it..." with no qualifier. I just really didn't read it as so negative. But YMMV. 

[tom87]

I guess I just didn't read the initial comment as negative. It to me was more of an "I like this more than other stuff she's done."  I guess it's like if she released a song and someone said "I like this kind of stuff from Lea more than the belting stuff" or something like that. That to me wouldn't read as negative but I guess one would argue it could have just been left at "I like it..." with no qualifier. I just really didn't read it as so negative. But YMMV. 

If someone says something makes them cringe that casually isn't a good thing.   But I felt the pot shot of saying she was best to sing unpretty more the unnecessary comment but not unexpected from some.  

[Cranberry]

The unpretty comment was not a potshot at Lea. It was saying that it was silly for her to sing "Unpretty" when the actress is making "most beautiful" lists, because she's obviously attractive. It was a compliment.

[AndySmith]

It's a completely valid opinion, but I don't believe anyone was talking about her being sexy or not so I didn't really think there was necessarily anything to counter.

 

It's related enough when you're talking about her making a most beautiful list, I suppose. And even if anyone was talking about her being sexy or not, I didn't realize I wasn't allowed to go off on a semi-related tangent.

[tom87]

The unpretty comment was not a potshot at Lea. It was saying that it was silly for her to sing "Unpretty" when the actress is making "most beautiful" lists, because she's obviously attractive. It was a compliment.

well if thats true I apologize but considering the source I was skeptical.

Edited April 23, 2015 by tom87

[SNeaker]

From what I recall the last time it came up, jaytee thinks it was ridiculous and hard to swallow for someone as conventionally beautiful as Rachel to have sung that song. Something I disagree with completely not because I don't think she's beautiful, but because she's not "conventionally" so (and being in the 50 Most Beautiful issue doesn't change that, they feature many unconventional beauties) and because Lea Michele, the actress who plays Rachel and shares her face, has been told in the past to get a nose job and that she looks too "ethnic" to get roles.

[AndySmith]

If there is anything we learned from the Simpsons, its that there usually is "TV ugly" and "real life ugly". And the two are not the same ;)

 

Seriously, though, Lea was told that? Dang. Wonder what she must have been thinking during the "Rachel needs a nose job" storyline.

Edited April 23, 2015 by AndySmith

[jaytee1812]

From what I recall the last time it came up, jaytee thinks it was ridiculous and hard to swallow for someone as conventionally beautiful as Rachel to have sung that song. Something I disagree with completely not because I don't think she's beautiful, but because she's not "conventionally" so (and being in the 50 Most Beautiful issue doesn't change that, they feature many unconventional beauties) and because Lea Michele, the actress who plays Rachel and shares her face, has been told in the past to get a nose job and that she looks too "ethnic" to get roles.

I also found it as ridiculous that a character played by Dianna Agron sang the same song and she ain't appearing on most beautiful lists.

And if you think Lea is an unconventional beauty try looking at the other women in the room during that song. Did you we'll ever see women like Jenna Ushkowitz, Amber Riley or Ashley Fink on those lists, and look at what Naya Rivera has done to herself to try. Lea and Dianna were still the two unlikely choices, particularly as other characters had been shown to have body issues and didn't need them invented in that episode.

[SNeaker]

And if you think Lea is an unconventional beauty try looking at the other women in the room during that song. Did you we'll ever see women like Jenna Ushkowitz, Amber Riley or Ashley Fink on those lists, and look at what Naya Rivera has done to herself to try. Lea and Dianna were still the two unlikely choices, particularly as other characters had been shown to have body issues and didn't need them invented in that episode.

 

I could see those women getting on the list, absolutely. Why not? They put people in who make headlines.

 

It wasn't about Lea and Dianna, it was about Rachel and Quinn and their particular journeys, their feelings about themselves, and their competitive dynamic with each other.

[caracas1914]

It made TOTAL sense for both the characters of Quinn and Rachel to be in the Pretty/Unpretty number.  Quinn because the show pointedly placed her as a high school goddess as far as conventional beauty, which in the case of Dianna Agron coincides with her personally.

 

The show also had since Seaon ONe Rachel insecure about her looks and other commenting on her ethnicity aka her "prominent" nose. 

 

It's one of the numbers on Glee that worked beautifully with the storyline they were presenting.

Edited April 23, 2015 by caracas1914

[jaytee1812]

So was I supposed to think Quinn was the conventional beauty Rachel wanted to be and Quinn was singing about how that's not all that great. Because that's how I took it. And normally I cared about Quinn, but here, no. I'm not saying neither girl had issues, but come on, really these were the two in that room who had body issues?

I see that as sticking it to the fandom as well. They liked to say that they showed all shapes and sizes but that showed we were only meant to care about skinny and pretty.

[caracas1914]

Have you seen the number? It's basically Rachel prepping for possible cosmetic surgery and Quinn along to give her "moral" support and the standard Rachel aspires to.

Quinn was shown as a bit entitled and complacent about her beauty, whereas Rachel aspired to that "type" , becaue even the surgeon was encouraging here to go under the knife.

In the end of the episode Rachel decides to own up to her distint looks and not have plastic surgery.

It's rare for lyrics in a song to match a SL so yes there is that, , but the actual imagery during the number showed the difference between the two women.

Edited April 23, 2015 by caracas1914

[dizzyizzy01]

So was I supposed to think Quinn was the conventional beauty Rachel wanted to be and Quinn was singing about how that's not all that great. Because that's how I took it. And normally I cared about Quinn, but here, no. I'm not saying neither girl had issues, but come on, really these were the two in that room who had body issues?

I see that as sticking it to the fandom as well. They liked to say that they showed all shapes and sizes but that showed we were only meant to care about skinny and pretty.

But, Mercedes and Lauren were generally presented as characters that were actually very comfortable/confident in their appearance.  Santana's character is clearly presented as the "hot cheerleader."  Tina is kind of a non-entity in S1-S3 so it's harder to dissect her character.  Also, Jenna is pretty damn pretty and fit.

 

From S1, Rachel is called variations of tranny, manhands, dwarf, Yentl, stubbles etc. and largely by more conventionally pretty characters like Quinn or Santana.  Her nose is frequently made fun of.  What teenage girl wouldn't have some image issues after that?  And the dynamic between the Quinn and Rachel was extremely fitting for that song.  It was one of the rare instances where the story line meshed almost perfectly with the songs.

[jaytee1812]

Yeah, I remember watching the episode and thinking 'Rachel has a big nose? How is she that different from Quinn except hair colour, and skin tone?'

If you've seen the video for Unpretty the perfect duet would've been Mercedes/Santana. The plus size girl decide to love herself as she was and the girl choosing not to undergo plastic surgery.

The episode reinforced that the only women who matter are skinny girls.

I basically asked because I apparently took Firework the wrong way for years!

[dizzyizzy01]

Glee doesn't have to and shouldn't really follow the storyline of TLC's music video.  That's would be lazy and not make sense for the storylines Glee was telling.

[jaytee1812]

But, Mercedes and Lauren were generally presented as characters that were actually very comfortable/confident in their appearance.  Santana's character is clearly presented as the "hot cheerleader."  Tina is kind of a non-entity in S1-S3 so it's harder to dissect her character.  Also, Jenna is pretty damn pretty and fit.

 

From S1, Rachel is called variations of tranny, manhands, dwarf, Yentl, stubbles etc. and largely by more conventionally pretty characters like Quinn or Santana.  Her nose is frequently made fun of.  What teenage girl wouldn't have some image issues after that?  And the dynamic between the Quinn and Rachel was extremely fitting for that song.  It was one of the rare instances where the story line meshed almost perfectly with the songs.

Tina was consistently called fat (as has Jenna) we get five seconds of her in that episode hating on her own appearance. Both her and Mercedes are bullied throughout the show, but they never get jabs about their appearance, only Rachel?

Mercedes and Lauren were shown as happy with their appearance because we were never suppose to care. Yeah Santana is the hot cheerleader, who at that point has already mutilated herself to look hotter, but she doesn't have body issues?

[AndySmith]

Didn't Mercedes have an episode where she was starving herself but a hospital bedside chat from Quinn took care of that?

Edited April 23, 2015 by AndySmith

[dizzyizzy01]

When is Tina ever called fat?  Am I forgetting this?

 

It's hard to discuss something when you make determinations on characters and story lines that never actually happened?  Mercedes and Lauren were shown to be very confident women.  Santana was very confident in her looks and and often made fun of Rachel for hers.  That's what was presented on the show.

 

Didn't Mercedes have an episode where she was starving herself but a hospital bedside chat from Quinntake care of that?

 

 

Yea.  There was one episode when she was on the cheerios.  I said generally she was presented as someone that was actually quite comfortable in her skin.  She had that one episode where Sue bullied her into thinking she needed to lose weight, but she realized that wasn't a good path to take.  But in general she wasn't someone that seemed to carry a lot of body image issues in as part of her character.  She always seemed quite happy with the way she was.

Edited April 23, 2015 by dizzyizzy01

[jaytee1812]

Santana had plastic surgery, Tina was called fat, Mercedes and Quinn both went on crazy diets.

Rachel's pretty confident. Confidence and body issues are not mutually exclusive.

[Mnem]

jaytee, no tea no shade, it's like you legit watched a different show. Rachel planned to go to the plastic surgeon with a picture of her with Quinn's nose. She constantly during the first few seasons compared herself to the pretty girls, usually Quinn and Santana, and found herself on the losing end. If not for the lack of a gag reflex she would have gone bulimic so she could be hot. What show were you watching?!!

[jaytee1812]

jaytee, no tea no shade, it's like you legit watched a different show. Rachel planned to go to the plastic surgeon with a picture of her with Quinn's nose. She constantly during the first few seasons compared herself to the pretty girls, usually Quinn and Santana, and found herself on the losing end. If not for the lack of a gag reflex she would have gone bulimic so she could be hot. What show were you watching?!!

And? I said the storyline puzzled me because she doesn't have a big nose. (Then I don't think Becca Tobin has a big nose and she thinks she does).

I think Lea/Rachel is stunningly beautiful. Casting her as an ugly person was like having Artie played by someone who can walk... I don't think it works successfully. I never made that leap to believing Rachel's body issues.

Edited April 23, 2015 by jaytee1812

[caracas1914]

However the issue isn't whether Lea Michele is pretty/beautiful/attractive, but that the character of Rachel was mocked for her looks/ethnic nose, etc throughout most of the show. 

Even in Season 5 one of the show biz agents says Rachel  has a "radio face" (ie should be behind the camera, not in front of).

 

It's like saying Mark Salling didn't portray a bad boy HS teenage kid, sure in real life and on the show Mark looked more like a teacher/parent (sorry Sneaker!) but his character was what it was. 

 

Ditto Rachel;  the character was insecure about her looks and she DOES have an ethnic nose different than Quinn's, (the irony being that both her and Dianna Agron are Jewish if I'm  not mistaken).  So while I do think Lea is pretty, and Rachel was pretty also in her own way, I thougth the insecurities about Rachel's looks was the one thing the show actually was generally consistent about.

 

However it still boils down to whether plausibly Lea portrayed a gal who was not conventionally pretty (per HS standards), so of course mileage varies.

Edited April 23, 2015 by caracas1914

[mercfan3]

And? I said the storyline puzzled me because she doesn't have a big nose. (Then I don't think Becca Tobin has a big nose and she thinks she does).

I think Lea/Rachel is stunningly beautiful. Casting her as an ugly person was like having Artie played by someone who can walk... I don't think it works successfully. I never made that leap to believing Rachel's body issues.

 

Beauty is subjective.

 

But Lea is definitely 100% not high school hot. Which is pretty easy to define. (Quinn, basically) And it is very easy to imagine someone like her feeling insecure.

 

Not only that, but I don't think Rachel was ever supposed to be ugly. She just wasn't supposed to be high school hot. 

[tom87]

I could see those women getting on the list, absolutely. Why not? They put people in who make headlines.

 

 

i.e. Meghan Trainor or Lavern Cox who were on the big list of top 10. 

 

Funny thing is Lea has been in the most beautiful  issue several times but for some reason now is in question by one person.  Last year even under  Most Beautiful 2014 Hollywood's Unconventional Beauties.  Pointing out her distinguishing feature her nose.

 

Ha  knew there was more to it then just a "compliment".

Edited April 24, 2015 by tom87

[phoenixrising]

When you put Lea next to Dianna, she's looks slightly less conventionally pretty. But she is still way hotter than most people? Yes. That says more about how ridiculously hot Dianna is than anything about Lea though.

But Hollywood has bizarre ideas of what "ugly" girls look like (see the trailer for DUFF. If that chick is ugly and fat, then most of us are).

[tom87]

So  subjective I find Lea hotter than Dianna.  Dianna is pretty but not my cup of tea.   I like a more unconventional look more interesting.  I'd be more interested in basically all of them over Dianna  based on just looks.  

[fakeempress]

When you put Lea next to Dianna, she's looks slightly less conventionally pretty. But she is still way hotter than most people? Yes. That says more about how ridiculously hot Dianna is than anything about Lea though.

But Hollywood has bizarre ideas of what "ugly" girls look like (see the trailer for DUFF. If that chick is ugly and fat, then most of us are).

Same as the fashion industry with their "idea" of "plus-size". 

[Craphole Island]

And? I said the storyline puzzled me because she doesn't have a big nose. (Then I don't think Becca Tobin has a big nose and she thinks she does).

I think Lea/Rachel is stunningly beautiful. Casting her as an ugly person was like having Artie played by someone who can walk... I don't think it works successfully. I never made that leap to believing Rachel's body issues.

To be honest this is exactly why the song and storyline works to me. Rachel, as a character, has this own body and nose issue herself even if maybe it's really not even that bad. Well that and she had two seasons worth of body insults from Quinn and Santana.

It's one of the rare Glee songs that I actually think fits perfectly with the storyline for the characters involved.

[jaytee1812]

To be honest this is exactly why the song and storyline works to me. Rachel, as a character, has this own body and nose issue herself even if maybe it's really not even that bad. Well that and she had two seasons worth of body insults from Quinn and Santana

They did tell us Rachel had body issues. Maybe they were just never able to show it, possibly too much of a stretch for Lea.

[ancslove]

Serious question, how do you want them to *show* it more? Other than casting a different actress? Rachel's struggles with not being the Dream Girl, and harshly comparing herself to Quinn and Santana have been surprisingly consistent. The guys saw her as "stealth hot" but the girls never did. And a good chunk of the bullying she got was aimed at her looks. Poor body image is mental, not physical.

[jaytee1812]

Serious question, how do you want them to *show* it more? Other than casting a different actress? Rachel's struggles with not being the Dream Girl, and harshly comparing herself to Quinn and Santana have been surprisingly consistent. The guys saw her as "stealth hot" but the girls never did. And a good chunk of the bullying she got was aimed at her looks. Poor body image is mental, not physical.

 

That would've worked.

 

Lea's a decent comedy actress but she's not a good dramatic actress. Well not based on Glee. 

[Mnem]

That would've worked.

 

Lea's a decent comedy actress but she's not a good dramatic actress. Well not based on Glee. 

I think a lot of the great critical notices she got for great deal of the storylines she did on Glee says otherwise. But it's all subjective. Some people actually think Jenna can act. So that just goes to show opinions are opinions.

[jaytee1812]

I think a lot of the great critical notices she got for great deal of the storylines she did on Glee says otherwise. But it's all subjective. Some people actually think Jenna can act. So that just goes to show opinions are opinions.

I'll move this to the acting thread.

[AndySmith]

So was the problem that Lea wasn't ugly enough for the storyline or not a good enough dramatic actress for the storyline or...?

 

I'm confused.

[tom87]

So was the problem that Lea wasn't ugly enough for the storyline or not a good enough dramatic actress for the storyline or...?

 

I'm confused.

 

I'm not, the dissension isn't really about how Rachel looks or Lea's acting abilities it is simple that it is Rachel who got the storyline period.    Likely if we were talking about Rachel's surrogate the lone dissenter would say it should have  been a Tina storyline of being adopted instead. 

[fakeempress]

Lea's new book cover.

[Hybridcookie]

Lea's new book cover.

 

Oooh, that's such a pretty cover. Lea looks great there

[fakeempress]

More hyperbolics about Darren from the Hedwig team. I guess they have to promote him no holds barred, but they could try not to lose all credibility in the process: "There isn’t anyone in Darren’s generation who does all the things that he does as well as he does. He sings, he dances really well, he learned his choreography in two days."
So am I to understand that no one in his age bracket on BW can compare in singing and dancing and learning choreo? Like, fellow Glee guy Jon Groff doesn't exist (first name that came to mind)? Skylar Astin? Leslie Odom, Jeremy Jordan, tons of others?

Edited April 26, 2015 by fakeempress

[Sara2009]

More hyperbolics about Darren from the Hedwig team. I guess they have to promote him no holds barred, but they could try not to lose all credibility in the process: "There isn’t anyone in Darren’s generation who does all the things that he does as well as he does. He sings, he dances really well, he learned his choreography in two days."

So am I to understand that no one in his age bracket on BW can compare in singing and dancing and learning choreo? Like, fellow Glee guy Jon Groff doesn't exist (first name that came to mind)? Skylar Astin? Leslie Odom, Jeremy Jordan, tons of others?

There's also Matt Morrison, though I don't know if he'd be considered part of the same generation or not.

[Higgs]

Yes, Darren might be a better dancer than most Broadway leading men. Also, he sings about as well as Jon, but MM is better than Darren at everything.

From: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/03/theater/darren-criss-of-glee-fills-daniel-radcliffes-shoes.html?_r=0

In a rehearsal studio off Times Square last week, Darren Criss — a breakout star of the Fox high school musical series “Glee” — was performing a bit too perfectly.

Preparing for his Broadway debut on Tuesday night as the corporate climber J. Pierrepont Finch in “How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying,” Mr. Criss was leaping into the air during the number “Grand Old Ivy” and tucking in his feet as a dancer would. This drew a correction from the director, Rob Ashford, who wanted Mr. Criss’s feet to be flat and extend sideways like those of an outstretched marionette, because his character should lack finesse.

“What you’re doing is almost too good,” Mr. Ashford told Mr. Criss, who stood panting slightly in dress slacks and a blue T-shirt from his alma mater, the University of Michigan. A moment later Mr. Criss nailed the leap with precise imprecision.

[fakeempress]

 

Yes, Darren might be a better dancer than most Broadway leading men.

This sounds even more ludicrous, when you remove the age bracket. 

 

 

There's also Matt Morrison, though I don't know if he'd be considered part of the same generation or not.

Idk either but they aren't so far removed. Stark Sands is also Matt's age. Just these two mid-30's men whom I've seen how they can act and sing and dance (even though Stark isn't a trained dancer but he still was nominated for a Tony!), are better (I won't qualify how much) than what Darren's shown so far, including as Finch. And it was reported that his H2$ choreo was watered down compared to what Daniel Radcliffe did, though I can't vouch for this, comments were made on the BW boards to this effect.  

 

I can get statements like that coming from Darren's stans, but I smh that anyone involved with BW can make them with a straight face. 

Edited April 27, 2015 by fakeempress