S03.E03: Welcome to the Revolution

[FormerMod-a1]

Quote

After receiving a distress call from a former associate, the crew of the Raza find themselves in the middle of a colony's fight for independence.

[wanderingstar]

Three (about Calcheck): The guy's a thieving, scheming opportunist.

*pointedly raised eyebrows from Two and Six*

Three: Yeah, yeah.

That can't be the last we see of Six. What about my Five/Six scenes?!?!

Adrian (the new handler) was amusing - as was his bodyguard (I think her name is Solara). I can see them being good additions to the crew, but they are no substitute for Six.

Sara's reappearance is interesting. So she's alive, but not in the bodily sense. I felt bad for Three. He looked like he wasn't sure what to think or feel at the news.

[mjc570]

What a pointless episode, with very little plot advancement.  Once explanation for the Sara in the machine, one viewing of evil emperor Ryo, a POC replacement and the rest of the show devoted to Saint Roger Cross.  Has he actually left the series? 

Still, this show is one of my favorites, so I'm more than willing to give it a pass.

[snowwhyte]

I was expecting a heist episode and instead we lost six. Ryo is annoying and if we were going to lose someone I'd rather it were him. 

[zxy556575]

I like Roger Cross fine, but Six has kind of devolved into a charmless nag so I wont be desolated or anything if he stays gone. I am a little sorry to see the continued shattering of our original Razaroos. (Although I'm curious if we're going to hear any more about, or from, Shrike and Jasper.)

Adrian and Solara aren't very well drawn as characters yet and after last season I'm not going to get too attached to anyone new. I definitely would rather have had Calchek the real weasel instead of his assistant weasel.

Edited June 17, 2017 by Lord Donia

[Chaos Theory]

Six had all the character growth he really could unless he devolved into a criminal.  As ways to go out at least it was better then with One.  Six got to at least get some semblance of justice over the guy he holds responsible for the original bombing that put him on the path he is on and he gets to remain the guy he is at his core.  So as endings go I approve.

[TimetoShine]

I didn't really enjoy this episode. It was all I could do to not press the fast forward button. My only takeaway is that Ryo needs to go. He was boring then and he's boring now.

[thuganomics85]

Not a bad episode, but it wasn't what last week's previews promised.  They must have accidentally aired it out of order because it was suppose to be about Three reliving a Groundhog Day like scenario, which sounded awesome, so this was going to fall short no matter.  Basically, the team has to save another colony, but it is mainly about finding an exit for Six as a regular, because I guess Roger Cross has other work (or works, because lets face it, he is required to be in every Canadian located show.)  Although, I wouldn't be surprise if he ends up popping back up near the end.  If nothing else, I have to imagine one of Ryo's bounty hunters (how very Darth Vader of you, Emperor!) will easily be able to find him.

Also, I guess this Adrian and Solara will be sticking around.  Hopefully they'll get more interesting, but as amusing as Adrian was, I definitely got the sense that they probably wanted to actually be Calcheck, but David Hewlitt wasn't available.

So...... Five somehow uploaded Sarah/Three's wife into the computer mainframe?

[jhlipton]

Not all that great.  And they didn't even have Six figure out that it was (obviously) the second-in-command that rigged the bomb.

Blah.

[MissLucas]

I'm more upset about this cheap David Hewlitt replacement than about losing Six! (Solara's great though - not her fault that at the moment she feels a bit like a replacement Nyx.)

Six, have you never watched any tv? Of course the guy who wants to negotiate a peace treaty always ends up in the crossfire. Also: that's the second time this season a Raza member has dealt with ideological shenanigans by simply putting a bullet into the speechifying culprit. Considering how often we have to deal with boring villain speeches on tv I kinda approve.

Not sure if we have really lost Six for good. I wonder if his departure is not supposed to mirror Four's. Four has given up on the crew's quest of finding redemption when he chose to upload his former self. Six has completely given in to his desire for redemption and developed a savior complex. Even if we are supposed to see his actions here as essentially heroic there was something a bit unnerving about him pushing so hard for the Raza to become an agent of revolution. They might have to save him from himself at one point. Ryo on the other hand seems beyond salvation.

But if we keep losing original team members at this speed the show won't last much longer. And even if they bring in great replacement characters those are people not driven by the core-conflict of the show. I find this worrying.

So it was Sarah in the machine - fine whatever. I want to know what happened to Jasper and Shrayk (or however you spell his name)???

Edited June 18, 2017 by MissLucas

[Raja]

4 hours ago, MissLucas said:

 

Not sure if we have really lost Six for good. I wonder if his departure is not supposed to mirror Four's. Four has given up on the crew's quest of finding redemption when he chose to upload his former self. Six has completely given in to his desire for redemption and developed a savior complex. Even if we are supposed to see his actions here as essentially heroic there was something a bit unnerving about him pushing so hard for the Raza to become an agent of revolution. They might have to save him from himself at one point. Ryo on the other hand seems beyond salvation.

But if we keep losing original team members at this speed the show won't last much longer. And even if they bring in great replacement characters those are people not driven by the core-conflict of the show. I find this worrying.

So it was Sarah in the machine - fine whatever. I want to know what happened to Jasper and Shrayk (or however you spell his name)???

We are losing crew at about the rate of one of its father shows Blake's 7. However being down to Two, Three and Five does leave a hole. I do think we will see Six down the line at some point just as Blake's 7 spoiler

Spoiler

Blake, himself came back after being missing for the final two seasons

[zxy556575]

The show might last a couple of additional seasons with the Raza crew as scrappy underdogs who pull heists, but then it has little to differentiate it from Killjoys. Which I also like, but not sure I need two.

At this point I honestly think I'd've been happier with a limited run of three seasons with the original crew. How they discovered their pasts and then dealt with the many memory twists and puzzles is largely what kept me intrigued, along with the growth/redemption (or not) arcs for each person that stemmed from them being mentally reset.

BTW, have we ever learned about Six's family? Did his previous non-undercover GA life not include any relatives or give him a single compelling reason to return to it? What makes being a de facto union organizer in a munitions factory the more appealing choice?

Edited June 18, 2017 by Lord Donia

[snowwhyte]

9 hours ago, MissLucas said:

 

So it was Sarah in the machine - fine whatever. I want to know what happened to Jasper and Shrayk (or however you spell his name)???

I assume it is Shrike, like the bird that impales it's prey. We probably don't want to meet that guy.

[FormerMod-a1]

I am sad they have split the original team up so much.  One died, Four is being the "big bad", and now Six decides he needs to single handedly save some random colony or something.  One was my least favorite so I didn't mind him leaving, but now I'd take him back (an alt version or Jase or whatever).  I like Two and Three a lot, and don't get the big deal with Five.  I'm just kind of 'meh' on her.  I mostly don't like that they treat her like she's a little girl.  Yes, she's young, but not that young.  And she's getting too much focus. I'd rather focus on Two for a while, please.  

[MissLucas]

10 hours ago, Lord Donia said:

The show might last a couple of additional seasons with the Raza crew as scrappy underdogs who pull heists, but then it has little to differentiate it from Killjoys. Which I also like, but not sure I need two.

At this point I honestly think I'd've been happier with a limited run of three seasons with the original crew. How they discovered their pasts and then dealt with the many memory twists and puzzles is largely what kept me intrigued, along with the growth/redemption (or not) arcs for each person that stemmed from them being mentally reset.

BTW, have we ever learned about Six's family? Did his previous non-undercover GA life include any relatives or give him a single compelling reason to return? What makes being a defacto union organizer in a munitions factory the more appealing choice?

I can't remember anything about Six's family. And the only reason I see for him becoming a union organizer is that he's guilt-tripping.

Granted the show's initial plot (who are these people and why did they end up on the Raza) gives it a limited shelf-life. But the show hasn't resolved all the puzzles and mysteries it conjured up during the last two seasons. Who built the Raza? Why did Portia modify the Android? What's up with the evil not dying dude even Will Wheaton's character is afraid of? Who ordered the hit on Derrick Moss? Where is alt-Jace Corso? Why did the crew put the Android away pre-mindwipe? You don't even need the new mysteries (machine-Sarah/Five's sister/the missing crew members) to see that there's still plenty of stuff to go on that should be handled by the original crew members and not their replacements.

[Chaos Theory]

11 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I can't remember anything about Six's family. And the only reason I see for him becoming a union organizer is that he's guilt-tripping.

Granted the show's initial plot (who are these people and why did they end up on the Raza) gives it a limited shelf-life. But the show hasn't resolved all the puzzles and mysteries it conjured up during the last two seasons. Who built the Raza? Why did Portia modify the Android? What's up with the evil not dying dude even Will Wheaton's character is afraid of? Who ordered the hit on Derrick Moss? Where is alt-Jace Corso? Why did the crew put the Android away pre-mindwipe? You don't even need the new mysteries (machine-Sarah/Five's sister/the missing crew members) to see that there's still plenty of stuff to go on that should be handled by the original crew members and not their replacements.

Six has been guilt tripping for awhile.  As a basically moral guy who got caught up in his fair share of out of control situations he finally gets a chance to chose his battles instead of them getting chose for him.  He really didn't fit in with the crew of the Raza and the only reason he stuck with them was because they were they were the better of evils for him.  And he kinda liked them.   

Shows evolve and I think some of the questions are never going to get answered.  I don't think it matters who built the Raza and the Jace Corso stuff is probably over and done with once the actor left the show for good or it might get folded in now that we know that Five's sister is a rich.  It might all connect.    The rest of the stuff may just get handled as the show goes on.    However the corporate war has been a looming threat and so has Four's identity crisis.   It actually also answers another looming question very effectively of whether or not the crew is better off never knowing the people they were even if occasionally their pasts come back to haunt them.    

[MissLucas]

3 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Shows evolve and I think some of the questions are never going to get answered.  I don't think it matters who built the Raza and the Jace Corso stuff is probably over and done with once the actor left the show for good or it might get folded in now that we know that Five's sister is a rich.  It might all connect.    The rest of the stuff may just get handled as the show goes on.    However the corporate war has been a looming threat and so has Four's identity crisis.   It actually also answers another looming question very effectively of whether or not the crew is better off never knowing the people they were even if occasionally their pasts come back to haunt them.    

The corporate war is the least interesting aspect of the show. And bringing up questions and mysteries and not answering them is simply bad writing. I also don't think the main question has been answered anywhere near effectively. YMMV.

[tennisgurl]

Damn it, stop breaking the band up! One is dead, Four as we know him is gone and is now evil, and now Six is gone to be in every single show in Canada. They seem to be doing something of a revolving door of new cast members, and while I've liked the new people (and the two newbies seem interesting enough), they just aren't the same as the original crew. The main cast still has the whole "I become a better person after amnesia) thing, even if they have mostly made people with that now (except for Four/Ryo, and look how well that turned out), and that gives them something interesting to do, and gives the show a big part of its identity. I like watching the crew just flying around pulling heists and such things, but the double identity stuff was what made the show unique.

I will miss Six, and I'm hoping he will come back when he takes a break from every show in Canada. I did like his goodbyes with the gang, especially when Three tried to do the bro handshake and Six pulled him into a hug. Awwwwww. Poor Three is probably going to need a few hugs in the near future, with his dead girlfriend who he doesn't actually remember showing up. Or something.

I cracked up at Six just blowing that bad guys brains out in the middle of his Big Evil Speech. Yeah violence is bad and stuff, but the dude bragged about killing thousands of civilians and was apparently not finished, so I say end his "This is the way" villain speech and lets do something actually productive.

[Raja]

I got the feeling that the Raza is just an off of the assembly line warship not much different than what the corporate fleets are using. The difference being her crew  did not care about public relations so went violent faster than their adversaries.

Sort of like old western gunslingers not being better shots than all the town folk not named Lucas McCain but just willing to go killing when most are civilized 

[Clanstarling]

On 6/17/2017 at 4:19 PM, jhlipton said:

Not all that great.  And they didn't even have Six figure out that it was (obviously) the second-in-command that rigged the bomb.

I assumed he did, and kept waiting for him to point it out to the woman in charge - and decided he didn't want another death. 

On 6/17/2017 at 4:24 PM, MissLucas said:

(Solara's great though - not her fault that at the moment she feels a bit like a replacement Nyx.)

Six, have you never watched any tv? Of course the guy who wants to negotiate a peace treaty always ends up in the crossfire. Also: that's the second time this season a Raza member has dealt with ideological shenanigans by simply putting a bullet into the speechifying culprit. Considering how often we have to deal with boring villain speeches on tv I kinda approve.

My take was Solara's going to be a replacement Six with her background and all - rather than Nyx. Maybe she's Syx.

I loved seeing the General get a bullet through the head, and since they didn't show his clone dissolve, I guess it's the real guy?

17 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I will miss Six, and I'm hoping he will come back when he takes a break from every show in Canada.

Hah! Funny and true.

[jhlipton]

On 6/17/2017 at 11:50 PM, Lord Donia said:

The show might last a couple of additional seasons with the Raza crew as scrappy underdogs who pull heists, but then it has little to differentiate it from Killjoys. Which I also like, but not sure I need two.

I couldn't get into Killjoys, so if they're alike, I'd rather have Dark Matter.

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I assumed he did, and kept waiting for him to point it out to the woman in charge - and decided he didn't want another death. 

My take was Solara's going to be a replacement Six with her background and all - rather than Nyx. Maybe she's Syx.

During his goodbyes, Six could have told Two, "So-and-so planted the bomb, but too much death, so I'm going to keep an eye on him."  As it is, I think he suspects so-and-so, but don't know how sure he is, or what he plans to do with his suspicion.  It  just seemed like a plot-hole to me.

"Maybe she's Syx."  I see what you did there... LOL

[Raja]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

I couldn't get into Killjoys, so if they're alike, I'd rather have Dark Matter.

During his goodbyes, Six could have told Two, "So-and-so planted the bomb, but too much death, so I'm going to keep an eye on him."  As it is, I think he suspects so-and-so, but don't know how sure he is, or what he plans to do with his suspicion.  It  just seemed like a plot-hole to me.

"Maybe she's Syx."  I see what you did there... LOL

Or as a soldier decides to remain tactical and tells everybody to call her Seven, with the old Star Trek joke to follow. I am with you with Killjoys, there seemed to have have been a Marvel v DC type fandom split from the beginning.

[jhlipton]

2 hours ago, Raja said:

Or as a soldier decides to remain tactical and tells everybody to call her Seven, with the old Star Trek joke to follow.

They'd need to keep Adrian and get Jace, Jasper or Shrike to make Nine.  Or is that the joke you're referring to?

[Raja]

2 hours ago, jhlipton said:

They'd need to keep Adrian and get Jace, Jasper or Shrike to make Nine.  Or is that the joke you're referring to?

Jeri Ryan on Star Trek Voyager played the ex Borg drone whose humanity was restored Seven of Nine, just Seven for short. Dark Matter is our far future, I assumed

[jhlipton]

2 minutes ago, Raja said:

Jeri Ryan on Star Trek Voyager played the ex Borg drone whose humanity was restored Seven of Nine, just Seven for short. Dark Matter is our far future, I assumed

That why I said they needed to add two more (Adrian and another) to make Nine.  I got your joke; you apparently didn't get mine.  :D

[Spaceman Spiff]

On ‎6‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 2:39 PM, tennisgurl said:

Damn it, stop breaking the band up! One is dead, Four as we know him is gone and is now evil, and now Six is gone to be in every single show in Canada. They seem to be doing something of a revolving door of new cast members, and while I've liked the new people (and the two newbies seem interesting enough), they just aren't the same as the original crew. The main cast still has the whole "I become a better person after amnesia) thing, even if they have mostly made people with that now (except for Four/Ryo, and look how well that turned out), and that gives them something interesting to do, and gives the show a big part of its identity. I like watching the crew just flying around pulling heists and such things, but the double identity stuff was what made the show unique.

This show feels like it doesn't know where it wants to go and is just spinning it's wheels. 2 new crew members killed off last year to be replaced by 2 new members this year. The loss of One (and Four to an extent) last year and this year Six. Five placing Sara's conscious into the databanks and never mentioning it...like whaat? And did we ever find out who followed them back from the alt universe last year, because I don't think we ever did. This show could be written so much tighter, but right now it's just a hot mess. This episode alone, twice betrayed by the people you are trying to help....I mean fool me once right? That makes Six all types of foolish.

[MissLucas]

I always assumed that it was Alt-Jayce Corso who followed them - so far the show has not picked up that lose end but I think it will. The writers are occasionally playing a long con and this feels like such an occasion. Another lose end that I'm less sure will ever be resolved is the murder of Devon. If they ever deal with that I'll be impressed. At the moment both Nyx and Devon seem like pointless additions (Nyx's only purpose seems to have been to humanize Four) and so it's not surprising people don't like the idea of another pair of newbies. Show has to tread carefully to make that work.

[Wouter]

On 17/6/2017 at 3:48 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Six had all the character growth he really could unless he devolved into a criminal.  As ways to go out at least it was better then with One.  Six got to at least get some semblance of justice over the guy he holds responsible for the original bombing that put him on the path he is on and he gets to remain the guy he is at his core.  So as endings go I approve.

22 hours ago, Clanstarling said:

I loved seeing the General get a bullet through the head, and since they didn't show his clone dissolve, I guess it's the real guy?

While it is good for Six to be the one to kill the General, if it was the real guy then if felt very anticlimatic. In S1, the General was very careful and even used a clone inside his own secure (and hidden) facility. Surely now he wouldn't show up (in person, not as a clone) with only a handful of men while in a position that Six could shoot him easily and where 3 or 4 mercenaries could force his men to surrender?

I wonder if Cross simply wasn't available anymore and the writers had to write him out in a hurry? OTOH, they didn't kill him off so he could easily be brought back. Maybe, as MissLucas wrote, it is meant to mirror 4 leaving the ship as a villain, whereas Six is trying to be the hero.

On 18/6/2017 at 1:24 AM, MissLucas said:

I'm more upset about this cheap David Hewlitt replacement than about losing Six! (Solara's great though - not her fault that at the moment she feels a bit like a replacement Nyx.)

[...]

So it was Sarah in the machine - fine whatever. I want to know what happened to Jasper and Shrayk (or however you spell his name)???

 

David Hewlitt wasn't available, I suppose. But he wasn't a core part of the show and his replacement seems fine enough. His introduction of the Raza crew was nice enough ;)

For the first time we have learned who the original crew of the Raza was: Boone and Ryo, and then this Jasper and Shryke that apparently ran afool of Portia.

On 18/6/2017 at 5:06 PM, MissLucas said:

Granted the show's initial plot (who are these people and why did they end up on the Raza) gives it a limited shelf-life. But the show hasn't resolved all the puzzles and mysteries it conjured up during the last two seasons. Who built the Raza? Why did Portia modify the Android? What's up with the evil not dying dude even Will Wheaton's character is afraid of? Who ordered the hit on Derrick Moss? Where is alt-Jace Corso? Why did the crew put the Android away pre-mindwipe? You don't even need the new mysteries (machine-Sarah/Five's sister/the missing crew members) to see that there's still plenty of stuff to go on that should be handled by the original crew members and not their replacements.

JM has promised that we will get the full origin story of the Android this season (including what Portia did and why). I suspect the alt-Marauder (and whoever is crewing it) will make an appearance this season. I sincerely hope that the whole situation around Derrick Moss (who had his wife killed, why did he go undercover himself, who had him murdered?) will be addressed. I'm pretty sure we will see Dwarf Star again, too.

On 18/6/2017 at 10:39 PM, Raja said:

I got the feeling that the Raza is just an off of the assembly line warship not much different than what the corporate fleets are using. The difference being her crew  did not care about public relations so went violent faster than their adversaries.

Sort of like old western gunslingers not being better shots than all the town folk not named Lucas McCain but just willing to go killing when most are civilized 

The Raza is a warship, that's very clear now. It looks nothing like the ship from either Mikkei or Ferrous though. If it looked a lot like a warship from one of the other corporations, presumably this would make it a very suspicious visitor for neutral space stations (under false registry). Since especially Ferrous used the Raza to strike terror when it didn't want to be implicated in crimes, obviously it could not be a clone of a standard Ferrous design. So I'm guessing it was build to order, with a design not used by the major corporations. It may not be terribly relevant but I still would like to find out the history of the ship, too.

[Wouter]

14 minutes ago, MissLucas said:

I always assumed that it was Alt-Jayce Corso who followed them - so far the show has not picked up that lose end but I think it will. The writers are occasionally playing a long con and this feels like such an occasion. Another lose end that I'm less sure will ever be resolved is the murder of Devon. If they ever deal with that I'll be impressed. At the moment both Nyx and Devon seem like pointless additions (Nyx's only purpose seems to have been to humanize Four) and so it's not surprising people don't like the idea of another pair of newbies. Show has to tread carefully to make that work.

The audience knows how and why Devon was killed; I doubt the crew will ever learn as the leaders of the seers didn't survive the end of S2.

Nyx seems to have been a plot device: introduce the seers and build conflict with them, and create the base for the very personal animosity between Two and Four - which will be one of the main threads, if not THE main thread, of the season. I wonder if Two will kill Four in the end or if she will show mercy at the last moment (or maybe vice versa). It seems clear S3 is building up toward a final confrontation between those 2, though.

Speaking about Four: the scene where he summoned mercenaries/assassins/etc reminded me of Darth Vader and the bounty hunters, in "The empire strikes back".

[MissLucas]

About Devon: Yes, we know who killed him and quite frankly I'll be happy if we never ever see the seers again. However the Raza guys makes such a big deal of showering epic revenge on anyone who dares to come after a crew-member that his death (and his whole arc) seem oddly pointless. We already knew the seers were first degree douches. I wonder why the character was even added - to show how random and brutal death can be even in sci-fi?

[Wouter]

IIRC Mallozzi said in an interview (sometime while S2 was airing, or shortly after) that Devon was supposed to show that this quest for redemption, that most of the crew was on, can go wrong. We had Four and his (re)lapse into Ryo Ishida, and Devon happened to get killed along the way without doing much of note. He did redeem himself a little by not giving the information the seers wanted, but he died alone and since the crew thinks he just ran off they may never know his sacrifice.

[Clanstarling]

1 hour ago, Wouter said:

While it is good for Six to be the one to kill the General, if it was the real guy then if felt very anticlimatic. In S1, the General was very careful and even used a clone inside his own secure (and hidden) facility. Surely now he wouldn't show up (in person, not as a clone) with only a handful of men while in a position that Six could shoot him easily and where 3 or 4 mercenaries could force his men to surrender?

I agree completely. It was odd, and an utterly unsatisfying ending to Six's quest to kill him.

[ottoDbusdriver]

On 6/17/2017 at 6:19 AM, snowwhyte said:

I was expecting a heist episode and instead we lost six. Ryo is annoying and if we were going to lose someone I'd rather it were him. 

 

On 6/20/2017 at 9:21 AM, Clanstarling said:

I agree completely. It was odd, and an utterly unsatisfying ending to Six's quest to kill him.

I found this episode to be very repetitive of the S1 premiere.