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Celebrating 25 Years Of The West Wing

Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

Eyes High

By Eyes High
in Game Of Thrones

Meredith Quill
Message added by Meredith Quill

Advisory: This topic is for S8 Spoilers & Spec. If your post predominantly concerns book comparisons or a character's past season actions it will be removed. 

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Colorful Mess

Colorful Mess

2 minutes ago, nikma said:

He is too pasive, annoyingly humble, uninterested in politics and ruling and lacks passion. He is ice and he needs some fire in his life LOL. 

I think you have to be joking. You're joking right?? He sure seems to have passion about saving the North/all of humanity and fighting demonic zombies.

To show some balance in this relationship in S7, maybe they should have had Jon learn something from Dany.

Dany could teach Jon how to flaunt his titles and how to make people kneel to him under threat of death?

On second thought...I'm glad they didnt. *cringe*

As you can tell, I think this relationship is actually very unbalanced and makes no sense whatsoever. 

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Meredith Quill
Meredith Quill

Enjoy: I laughed. 🤣

spaceghostess
spaceghostess

^This.^ Thank you.  Months ago I posted that both Dany and Jon were at the top of my death list, but it never occurred to me that (a) she'd die crazy or (b) he'd kill her because she was crazy. Y

dragonsbite
dragonsbite

oh thank god. y'all have stopped arguing about Sansa.

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WindyNights

WindyNights

29 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Like all great conquerors and rulers in history, Dany wanted obedience and loyalty from the lords which saved more lives in the long run which is what matters. Conquerors only win "hearts and minds" in fictional worlds. In real life, they are pretty hated until maybe the next generations come along and are never loved. 

That shows that Daenerys is awful at PR. She should be convincing the people that she's coming as a liberator not a conqueror. People don't like to conquered but they loved to be liberated.

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nikma

nikma

19 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

ink you have to be joking. You're joking right?? He sure seems to have passion about saving the North/all of humanity and fighting demonic zombies.

No. I don't see passion. I see duty and honor, but not passion.

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Colorful Mess

Colorful Mess

2 minutes ago, nikma said:

No. I don't see passion. I see duty and honor, but not passion.

Jon is trying to protect his home/family because of duty? His love for his family is his duty?

That Ramsay punching scene, was restrained, passionless duty?

Choking Littlefinger out was passionless?

Pleading with the Lords to understand why he has to go..."The North is my home and I will NEVER stop fighting for it, NO MATTER THE ODDS" is passionless?

Oh and Rickon - trying like hell to save him in the middle of a battlefield? Duty?

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GrailKing

GrailKing

(edited)
47 minutes ago, nikma said:

Friki will give more spoilers about Tyrion tomorrow! 

According to some translators,  possible another twist .

Mañana en #Frikidoctor en #youtube más datos sobre el gran spoiler y el giro de guión más inesperado de la última temporada de #JuegodeTronos
ENGLISH
Tomorrow in #Frikidoctor in #youtube more data about the big spoiler and the most unexpected script turn of the last season of #JuegodeTronos

Edited by GrailKing
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Leila6

Leila6

40 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

 

I think Varys speech/conversation with Dany in 7x01 is a really big clue that Dany will kill Varys.

 

Or it could be misdirection, foreshadowing what happens with Tyrion.

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Eyes High

Eyes High

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(edited)

KaySen762, who seems to know what will be in Friki’s next vid, says the following:

Quote

Everyone better be prepared because this is going to break the sub. This is going to be a massive shitstorm.

And the shitstorm is not related to what happens in the show. So this isn’t about main characters.

Not sure what that means (isn't the info supposedly about Tyrion, who's undeniably a main character?), but there you have it.

Edited by Eyes High
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GrailKing

GrailKing

42 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

KaySen762, who seems to know what will be in Friki’s next vid, says the following:

Not sure what that means (isn't the info supposedly about Tyrion, who's undeniably a main character?), but there you have it.

Maybe Sansa did die, as part of his betrayal ?

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

40 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

KaySen762, who seems to know what will be in Friki’s next vid, says the following:

Not sure what that means (isn't the info supposedly about Tyrion, who's undeniably a main character?), but there you have it.

If I rely on the Spanish version, there is a big spoiler and a twist.

If it isn't about main characters, it could be about the WW/the NK; if it isn't about what happens in the show at all,  per se, it could be related to the books (like, D&D finally decided to not follow GRRM's ending).

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GrailKing

GrailKing

1 minute ago, Happy Harpy said:

If I rely on the Spanish version, there is a big spoiler and a twist.

If it isn't about main characters, it could be about the WW/the NK; if it isn't about what happens in the show at all,  per se, it could be related to the books (like, D&D finally decided to not follow GRRM's ending).

I could see them leaving the ending for George, they fill it most, but GRRM gets the final twist.

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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

3 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

On a romantic level, is the message that a man can/should make a female ruler become a better person, and that a man can/should change a woman's nature? 

Isn't that kind of...gross?

On a political level, shouldn't we want a ruler's instincts to be correct in the first place? Listening to advisors is one thing. But rulers can also decide not to listen to them or they can forget the message because their emotions are more powerful than advice.

Where did you get that from?  I mean in the sense of Yin and Yang....why is that a bad thing?  How is that a bad thing?   Relationships should bring out the best in each other, and spending time with people is always about learning and growing.  Dany tends to be quick to angry and action, Jon tends to be to slow and not act soon enough.  Dany assumed everyone will betray (which so far is justified) and Jon foolish enough to think that no one would betray him.  They've started to listen to each other, and work together to make smarter decisions that apart they might not have made.  How is this a bad thing?  

Shouldn't a ruler's instincts always be correct in the first place?  Idealistically yes, realistically no.  No one is perfect, and we all have flaws.  This is why Rulers have advisors whose job is to help them make the right decision.   How often have Jon and Dany's instincts failed them and they've done more damage than good? If they work together, are better rulers together.... isn't this a good thing?  

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GraceK

GraceK

11 minutes ago, LadyChaos said:

Where did you get that from?  I mean in the sense of Yin and Yang....why is that a bad thing?  How is that a bad thing?   Relationships should bring out the best in each other, and spending time with people is always about learning and growing.  Dany tends to be quick to angry and action, Jon tends to be to slow and not act soon enough.  Dany assumed everyone will betray (which so far is justified) and Jon foolish enough to think that no one would betray him.  They've started to listen to each other, and work together to make smarter decisions that apart they might not have made.  How is this a bad thing?  

Shouldn't a ruler's instincts always be correct in the first place?  Idealistically yes, realistically no.  No one is perfect, and we all have flaws.  This is why Rulers have advisors whose job is to help them make the right decision.   How often have Jon and Dany's instincts failed them and they've done more damage than good? If they work together, are better rulers together.... isn't this a good thing?  

Be careful your making sense!!! you sound entirely too reasonable.  ?

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shireenbamfatheon

shireenbamfatheon

If anything, the show seems to emphasize that love makes people do stupid things, and if the message is that Jon and Dany are so perfectly compatible that they're going to balance out each other's worst traits, then they haven't done a very good job of showing it, or I'm just not feeling it, because their love for each other made Dany abandon all plans and rush beyond the Wall for Jon, leading to the NK gaining a dragon and the means to cross the Wall with his army, and it made Jon reveal his plan to wage war with Dany against Cersei to her, irrespective of the wishes of his own people who're already sick of war, and now have to march South for Dany because Jon's in love after Cersei offer of an independent kingdom... If this is supposed to signify their prowess as good rulers, then Westeros is screwed. 

Neither character has been established as a good ruler. In fact, no one on this show comes across as a competent ruler, not even Olenna who decided to bring a hundred thousand Dothraki to Westeros out of vengeance with no regard for her people's wellbeing because she wanted revenge after she started the whole mess by pushing her granddaughter to become Queen and poisoning Joffrey to begin with. 

I have a very hard time believing the cast began preparing the audience for a controversial/unexpected/polarizing/unhappy ending a year in advance if that ending is Jon and Dany ruling over Westeros together happily ever after with Ned Jr and their dragons flying in sync above King's Landing 2.0.

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anamika

anamika

(edited)
7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Everything around the burning of the Tarlys, not only the writing and framing of it but also the explicit Aerys parallel, was D&D making their case in very obvious and contrived fashion that Dany is unfit to be queen. It wasn’t a good look, and it was never intended to be a good look. Compare the framing of Jon’s decision to execute the conspirators with the framing of Dany’s decision to execute the Tarlys if you have any doubt.

 

If we are going to springboard off D&D's writing and framing of scenes to predict character journeys and endings next season then we start off season 8 with:

- Jon being unfit to be any kind of leader considering he impulsively gets his people slaughtered, everyone - including Tyrion - scolds him for scuttling the DP meeting by telling Cersei the truth and Sansa keeps calling him out as stupid.

- Arya being an one note idiot psychopath who has no understanding of the North, gets easily manipulated despite FM training and is only there to kill people with her many faces.

- Bran's only role being to sit there and monotonously talk about the past and track the NK using ravens.

- Dany being unfit to be queen because she uses her dragons - we should have given up on her two season ago.

- Tyrion being a pacifist do-gooder who is selfless and only concerned about the well being of the people and not the game.

- Cersei being a Machiavellian schemer who has outlived the likes of LF and the Tyrells and has drawn up some daring plans with Euron/GC to successfully get North and attack WF.

- Sansa smartly hoarding grain, advising Jon and look! She is teaching people about armor and the salient features of strategic defense tactics, doing paperwork and instructing Arya on how to rule etc. Look how compassionate she is when executing LF compared to merciless Dany killing those Tarlys! It's Dany's turn to lose her IQ points next season as Sansa instructs Dany and co. on how to lead and fight cementing Sansa's position as the best leader of Westeros. As per Sophie Turner, Sansa next season is - " this steely, strong, manipulative, intelligent, kind, young woman ", while Emilia talks about Dany doing fucked up things.

Jon, Dany and Arya are therefore unfit to be any kind of leaders and will all either die or fuck off somewhere at the end of the series because they are only good at killing people. Bran will die as well - with the vanquishment of the NK and his army, he has nothing more to do since his only plot on the show was related to them.  Cersei will outwit the stupid Lannister Jaime and go into hiding.

So if we go by D&D's writing and framing of scenes, then the series will end with the smart, compassionate, good leaders Tyrion and Sansa getting together and ruling/leading Westeros.  Sansa is warden of the North and Tyrion is warden of the West and together they oversee democracy in Westeros, introduce elections and good governance.

Or

The only, truly good leaders Tyrion and Sansa end up dying trying to save it from idiots like Jon, Dany and Arya. Who end up in leadership positions and we know that this is bittersweet because these guys truly suck as leaders and will end up destroying the place with their stupidity and dragons.

Edited by anamika
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nikma

nikma

8 hours ago, Colorful Mess said:

Jon is trying to protect his home/family because of duty? His love for his family is his duty?

That Ramsay punching scene, was restrained, passionless duty?

Choking Littlefinger out was passionless?

Pleading with the Lords to understand why he has to go..."The North is my home and I will NEVER stop fighting for it, NO MATTER THE ODDS" is passionless?

Oh and Rickon - trying like hell to save him in the middle of a battlefield? Duty?

I didn't say he is robot. But that is nothing compared to Dany. She is pure fire.

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Pestilentia

Pestilentia

Quote

I don’t see any scenario where Dany dies if Dany’s last scene of GOT was filmed in Dubrovnik. 

I don't see how the order of filming has any bearing at all on the order in which scenes are aired.

I think most of the fuss about who was where when as regards filming locations is people showing off their virtuosity in fantasizing plot and end game, and they all depend on insanely over-precise predictions of where the show is going. I won't quite say garbage in, garbage out, but insanely overprecise predictions in, insanely overprecise conclusions out.

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SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)
7 hours ago, nikma said:

I didn't say he is robot. But that is nothing compared to Dany. She is pure fire.

I agree. Jon has exploded occasionally, but he has never struck me as particularly passionate or even intense compared to Daenerys. Maybe he is supposed to be that way, but is held back by how Kit plays the character.

 

15 hours ago, WindyNights said:

People don't like to conquered but they loved to be liberated.

Says every invading ruler/country before repeating the perpetual whining refrain, "we liberated them from a tyrant/dictator, etc., why they aren't they grateful? Why are they resisting me? Why don't they get along with each other? And the predictable, why don't they love me?"

At least Dany understands that ruling is not simplistic or fantastical as this and having learned from her experience in Mereen about the complicated politics of people were freed from enslavement and those whose wealth were tied to owning people. There are no easy answers and good rulers surround themselves with good advisors. 

Edited by SimoneS
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nikma

nikma

(edited)

"I'm in direct contact with acting agencies due to my work and sadly I know for a fact Anton Lesser could not reprise his role in the final season of Game of Thrones. When they went into negotiations for the final season, there was no way to fit GOT in between the plays he was already signed up for. Sadly not been able to find out the new actor who plays Qbyurn, he works for a different agency and was signed at the last minute. I hear they did everything they could to get Lesser back (they really, really wanted him back!) but he stuck to his guns."

Edited by nikma
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LadyChaos

LadyChaos

26 minutes ago, nikma said:

"I'm in direct contact with acting agencies due to my work and sadly I know for a fact Anton Lesser could not reprise his role in the final season of Game of Thrones. When they went into negotiations for the final season, there was no way to fit GOT in between the plays he was already signed up for. Sadly not been able to find out the new actor who plays Qbyurn, he works for a different agency and was signed at the last minute. I hear they did everything they could to get Lesser back (they really, really wanted him back!) but he stuck to his guns."

If Anton Lesser isn't coming back, I feel like their reasoning is just a lie.  I mean Anton Lesser would have known a year in advance when GoT was filming even if he didn't know when for sure they would need him specifically.  So, if this is true, then that would tell me that he intentionally books plays to be in so he could get out of being in the last season of GoT.

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Happy Harpy

Happy Harpy

(edited)
5 hours ago, Pestilentia said:

I don't see how the order of filming has any bearing at all on the order in which scenes are aired.

I think most of the fuss about who was where when as regards filming locations is people showing off their virtuosity in fantasizing plot and end game, and they all depend on insanely over-precise predictions of where the show is going. I won't quite say garbage in, garbage out, but insanely overprecise predictions in, insanely overprecise conclusions out.

Because in this particular case, it wouldn't be the order of filming. IIRC, the article didn't say it was the last scene Emilia Clarke filmed, but Daenerys' last scene on the show and IIRC bis the magazine was published a bit before Emilia Clarke wrapped filming.

So if it is true, it's at least unlikely that Daenerys dies during battles. If, being the operative word.

Edited by Happy Harpy
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Colorful Mess

Colorful Mess

15 hours ago, LadyChaos said:

Where did you get that from?  I mean in the sense of Yin and Yang....why is that a bad thing?  How is that a bad thing?   Relationships should bring out the best in each other, and spending time with people is always about learning and growing.  Dany tends to be quick to angry and action, Jon tends to be to slow and not act soon enough.  Dany assumed everyone will betray (which so far is justified) and Jon foolish enough to think that no one would betray him.  They've started to listen to each other, and work together to make smarter decisions that apart they might not have made.  How is this a bad thing?  

Shouldn't a ruler's instincts always be correct in the first place?  Idealistically yes, realistically no.  No one is perfect, and we all have flaws.  This is why Rulers have advisors whose job is to help them make the right decision.   How often have Jon and Dany's instincts failed them and they've done more damage than good? If they work together, are better rulers together.... isn't this a good thing?  

There are no scenes that illustrate how Jon is "learning and growing" from Daenerys. You'd have to fanfic that in your head.

What smarter decisions are they making together? 

The only "damaging" decision Jon has made was when threw his battle plans out the window and tried to save Rickon. At most we can say he will risk it all to save his family--his weakness. He also admits that another mistake was going to Dragonstone since he was tricked by Tyrion. I dont think dragons are the answer to the White Walkers (they weren't before) and so I'm predicting his plan is going to backfire in S8. But he's trying to protect the realm (which is why they keep bringing up his NW vows), and people will take notice. Dany claims to be protecting the realm by bending it to her will, but she can't conquer and save people at the same time. 

The ceasefire is not a "legitimate" predicament. I don't blame Jon much at all - I would have liked if he came up with a better plan but really I'm not sure there were any other alternatives if we assume that he couldn't have changed Tyrion's and Dany's minds in 7x5. If that's what will get Dany to help him, he's going to take any opportunity no matter how risky. Of course Dany could just help him without it. But she didn't. In all of these scenes, they aren't working together, Jon is working "around" her conditions.

I imagine we'll see more of this in S8 when Jon has to calm Dany down so that she doesn't go off like a powder keg when she hears that Cersei is taking the castles that Dany has won. But Dany won't be doing anything for Jon, because there's really no advice she could give him. He's just her errand boy now. And if he wants to be? That's pathetic.

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tangerine95

tangerine95

(edited)

I don't think we've yet seen Dany's influence on Jon as clearly as we've seen Jon's on Dany.I think that's mostly because he went to her territory,he was drawn into her war,around her advisors and people and had to convince her to join him.Next season I think we'll be more about Jon's drama as we see Dany around his family,his people and there's the parentage reveal to come.But I do think we saw new sides to Jon and he was influenced by meeting Dany.The biggest one being that he literally got the biggest army in westeros and probably the world plus dragons to go north and fight the WW.For seasons now Jon has been trying to convince people of the threat and he's basically been alone in that fight for the most part.With Dany he has a powerful ally to share the weight and actually help him deal.I thought his relief and gratitude to have that was apparent in the scene where Dany swears they'll fight the NK together.I've also seen it pointed out that Dany never calls Jon a bastard or treats him like less because of it.It's never really a factor for her.I think for Jon all that is huge.

And on a personal level there's the fact that we've never seen Jon give into his feelings and make the first move like he did by both making his feelings clear at the end of 7.06 by taking her hand and not wanting to let go and then again by going to her room in 7.07.It's really the first time he goes after something just for himself and not for duty or anything like that.Which I also think is a pretty big deal and it's where Dany inspires him to be more passionate about his life.

Edited by tangerine95
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Colorful Mess

Colorful Mess

1 minute ago, nikma said:

I think in general. He feels like a person without any personal ambition. 

But that is who he is. Should he change his entire personality?

IMO the distance/contrast between Jon and Dany is too large. Advice is one thing. But if they should change each other's nature to be more like the other - that's bad. If Dany is going to encourage Jon to put a bunch of titles after his name and make people kneel to him - she's changing the very nature of who he is. Same for Jon, if he wants Dany to be more humble or whatever. 

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Colorful Mess

Colorful Mess

And he does have personal ambition - to be a Stark Lord of Winterfell. It's a childhood wish that he had to suppress because he doesn't believe he deserves it, and to fulfill it, he would have to kill or compete with his own family. I think what you mean is that Jon doesn't give himself enough credit. However, this is also his complex, just like other characters have theirs - so I don't see it being "fixed" easily, and anyone who tries to change him without understanding that is going to meet a brick wall.

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nikma

nikma

15 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:

And he does have personal ambition - to be a Stark Lord of Winterfell

Maybe in the books. In the show he said that just once.

 

23 minutes ago, Colorful Mess said:
36 minutes ago, nikma said:

 

But that is who he is. Should he change his entire personality

Yes, and that's the reason he needs Dany. To change some things in his personality. Not everything ofc. And we saw in S7 that he did as tangerine95 said.

I don't see why changing some things is considered bad. It's natural character development. 

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nikma

nikma

(edited)

From Friki

 

1. Bran will be on Tyrion's trial and use "I never bet against me family" line from S1 against Tyrion
2. Tryion will say "they deserved it" speaking about poeple of KL
3. he will fall on his knees
4. Davos will be the main judge
5. the snow will be melting

6. Sansa, Arya, Sam, Grey Worm, Brienne, Robin and 2 new characters from S8 will be there, one of them from Golden Company

7. Death was filmed in studio, he doesn't know how Tyrion dies

8. Wolf Unit did the scene in Spain

Edited by nikma
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SimoneS

SimoneS

5 minutes ago, nikma said:

From Friki

 

1. Bran will be on Tyrion's trial and use "I never bet against me family" line from S1 against Tyrion
2. Tryion will say "they deserved it" speaking about poeple of KL
3. he will fall on his knees
4. Davos will be the main judge
5. the snow will be melting

6. Sansa, Arya, Sam, Grey Worm, Robin and 2 new characters from S8 will be there, one of them from Golden Company

7. Death was filmed in studio, he doesn't know how Tyrion dies

8. Wolf Unit did the scene

Interesting, but I still want to know who Tyrion betrays Dany and Jon to and where are they during the trial at Dragon Pit.

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Eyes High

Eyes High

  • Author
(edited)
2 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Interesting, but I still want to know who Tyrion betrays Dany and Jon to and where are they during the trial at Dragon Pit.

They're dead, probably. All hail King Davos (who's allegedly running the trial)!!!

Also, Joe didn't film anything. RIP Gendry. :(

Edited by Eyes High
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GraceK

GraceK

3 minutes ago, nikma said:

Tryion will say "they deserved it" speaking about poeple of KL

So after a whole season of literally stopping Dany from reigning fire down on KL because of all the innocent people that will get killed in the crossfire, all of sudden , “ they all deserve” some terrible retribution because Tyrion has never gotten over it his season 4 trial???? I find this hard to believe.  

5 minutes ago, nikma said:

Bran will be on Tyrion's trial and use "I never bet against me family" line from S1 against Tyrion

This makes no sense either. He already killed his father and Jaime is fighting on that side of the Starks and Dany at this point. So all of sudden come season 8 he’s aligned himself with the sister who actively tries to murder him since he was born, and who was the driving force behind his trial in season 4 to begin with??? ?? That contradicts other “ they deserved it” reasoning. This is stupid .

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nikma

nikma

Everything he said to Dany in S7 about not being Queen of Ashes was just bulshit to protect his family

1 minute ago, GraceK said:

Jaime is fighting on that side of the Starks and Dany at this point.

No. Jaime is fighting to protect his child as NCW said. We have no indication that Sansa and Arya will forget crimes he committed agianst Starks and Tullys. 

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tangerine95

tangerine95

His motivation as Frikki describes makes me think he was never on Dany's side for real.Like if he never bets against his family then I guess he actually was trying to keep them in power and sabotage Dany.And what really was most shocking to me is Tyrion apparently not caring about the people of KL and believing they deserve whatever happens to them.And I guess there is a sort of unexplained jump from being resentful that they turned on him in the season 4 trial even tho he did so much to save them from Stannis and then being all about helping Dany for the good of the people.If this is true then it's totally a last WTF moment.

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SimoneS

SimoneS

(edited)
5 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

They're dead, probably. All hail King Davos (who's allegedly running the trial)!!!

 

I don't find it plausible that both Jon and Dany are dead, especially if BoatSexBaby is right that the Dragonpit sequence is major and is in episode 6 because it must involve the dragons which means Jon and Dany on green screen.

Edited by SimoneS
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GraceK

GraceK

Yeah I dont buy it. So basically Tyrion has been pulling a long term con Job since the end of season 4 And has been Cersei’s agent this whole time? Bullshit. If they are truly going to go down this road, I have no respect for them because they have made fools of us all . Nothing they have shown us in regards to Tyrion has given any inclination that he was plotting against Dany this whole time. He was a drunken mess when he left KL and was genuinely touched when she made him her hand. If this was all snowjob and he was working against her, then Fuck D and D because they are going for a shocking twist with no set up.

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tangerine95

tangerine95

1 minute ago, SimoneS said:

I don't find it plausible that both Jon and Dany are dead, especially if BoatSexBaby is right that the Dragonpit sequence is major and is in episode 6 because it must involve the dragons which means Jon and Dany on green screen.

I agree,I think they're alive and there's some other reason they're not there.Dany giving birth,they're overseeing the rebuilding of WF,they believe the trial will be more fair without them or something.But I doubt if they kill Tyrion that they'll also kill Jon and Dany in the same episode.That seems like too much imo.

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tangerine95

tangerine95

1 minute ago, GraceK said:

Yeah I dont buy it. So basically Tyrion has been pulling a long term con Job since the end of season 4 And has been Cersei’s agent this whole time? Bullshit. If they are truly going to go down this road, I have no respect for them because they have made fools of us all . Nothing they have shown us in regards to Tyrion has given any inclination that he was plotting against Dany this whole time. He was a drunken mess when he left KL and was genuinely touched when she made him her hand. If this was all snowjob and he was working against her, then Fuck D and D because they are going for a shocking twist with no set up.

Yeah I don't think this was well set up even tho I don't find it totally unbelievable either

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nikma

nikma

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

And has been Cersei’s agent this whole time?

I don't think so. I just think that when he came to Westeros he realized he can't kill them. I think he was honest in S5 and S6. But we will see. 

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