Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

From NCW interview. 

And Friki said that it will be revealed  in one big scene that Tyrion is traitor. So it seems there will be things that will be happening in the last season, but we won't know who is responsible until the end,  when "killer" is suddenly revealed .  . 

It might explain a lot of Tyrion's seeming poor decisions in S7 if he was in fact deliberately doing everything he could to sabotage Dany (as opposed to being half-assed about it because he was subconsciously conflicted). Tyrion was acting like a moron, and D&D think he's incredibly smart, so maybe that's the reason for the disconnect. 

When did he decide to start undermining Dany, though? When did he go from Dany's loyal supporter to someone consciously and actively working against her interests? Was it when she started up with her burning cities talk? Was it when he saw Drogon do his thing? Was he ever loyal to her? Will that ever be explained? And what was his plan if he succeeded and Dany was captured or died, given Cersei hates him and wants him dead?

D&D did say that the last twist comes at the very end of the series, but if Tyrion deciding to turn traitor from possibly the moment he met Dany isn't the third WTF moment, I don't know what is.

Tyrion being revealed as a traitor at the eleventh hour certainly explains a lot of the cast interviews, not just NCW's. They're clearly expecting LOST-level displeasure, and they're probably right. At least if it's spoiled this far out fans will have time to get used to the idea, and if pretty much everyone else gets a happy ending, then that will soften the blow.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, YaddaYadda said:

Oh, I know they're not your words. I just quoted the text.

OKay.

[SimoneS]

So I am trying to come up with reasons for Dany and Jon not being at the trial. Maybe they are on their way when the Night King attacks.

[nikma]

7 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Cersei did not give a fuck that her children were illegitimate and she did not care that anyone knew she was banging Jaime (her maid saw Jaime in her bed). She herself is an illegitimate queen. Now she cares? Hard pass.

Cersei has overstayed her welcome.

That's because claytoy is completely fake.

[Eyes High]

9 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

So I am trying to come up with reasons for Dany and Jon not being at the trial. Maybe they are on their way when the Night King attacks.

They're on dragonback, maybe...? 

It was also suggested on /Freefolk that they could be pieced in via VFX, with Kit and Emilia filming on greenscreen in the studio.

/Supes17 at /Freefolk posted a translation of Friki's Spanish language Q&A (and aren't there always rumours of Sansa's death? Sophie was at the Dragonpit, after all):

Quote

1. Tyrion Lannister’s treason will be revealed in a scene featuring Jon, Arya, Sansa, Daenerys, and Tyrion himself. The scene will most likely be presented as a montage intercutting with the trial, similar to the Jon= Aegon revelation and boatsex scene.

2.Tyrion’s trial and execution will be the biggest/most shocking scene in the episode. He’s heard rumors of a major character being killed by dragon fire and thinks it lines up with Tyrion’s execution but clarifies that it’s a speculation and that he hasn’t confirmed this.

He is putting his reputation on the line and is as sure that his Tyrion spoiler is real as he was with the previous Seasons’ spoilers which turned out to be true

3. Has heard rumors of Sansa’s death but it is not confirmed and shouldn’t be taken as fact. He says that it’s a very delicate topic as she’s a major character and won’t say anything until he confirms what her fate will be.

4. Gemma Whelan was spotted in Seville. Again, he can’t confirm what her role will be in the finale.

5. Has absolutely no idea what happens to Bran. He’s interested in his story so he’s looking into spoilers to share.

6. Doesn’t believe in Gendry/Arya or Gendry/Sansa but that’s his opinion.

7. Strongly believes that Jaime will die in Brienne’s arms, he’s heard the rumor but he needs to confirm it.

8. Tyrion’s betrayal shouldn’t lead to Jon and or Daenerys’ death because his treason will be revealed in a scene they all share.

The rest of the videos is him speculating based on the information he revealed and discussing fan theories just as we do here.

He will post another video next week if he gets more leaked information.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Eyes High

[nikma]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

It might explain a lot of Tyrion's seeming poor decisions in S7 if he was in fact deliberately doing everything he could to sabotage Dany (as opposed to being half-assed about it because he was subconsciously conflicted). Tyrion was acting like a moron, and D&D think he's incredibly smart, so maybe that's the reason for the disconnect. 

When did he decide to start undermining Dany, though? When did he go from Dany's loyal supporter to someone consciously and actively working against her interests? Was it when she started up with her burning cities talk? Was it when he saw Drogon do his thing? Was he ever loyal to her? Will that ever be explained? And what was his plan if he succeeded and Dany was captured or died, given Cersei hates him and wants him dead?

D&D did say that the last twist comes at the very end of the series, but if Tyrion deciding to turn traitor from possibly the moment he met Dany isn't the third WTF moment, I don't know what is.

I think it was in E4, when it became clear Dany is going to listen to Jon.

I think his bad plans were honest and their purpose was to show that Tyrion is not good Hand, so people won't think it's shame that he won't be endgame Hand. Dany said many times during S7 that he failed. So it's not true that D&D think he is great at everything, as someone said.

Since E4 there are hints of his jealousy. He even wanted Dany to let Jon die in E6.

I don't think he will hate Dany or try to kill her, I think he will harm Jon. That will be his betrayal.

So I don't think Dany will be problem for him. It's Jon. He would want to remove him.

[Eyes High]

2 minutes ago, nikma said:

I think it was in E4, when it became clear Dany is going to listen to Jon.

I think his bad plans were honest and their purpose was to show that Tyrion is not good Hand, so people won't think it's shame that he won't be endgame Hand. Dany said many times during S7 that he failed.

I guess the question is whether his "failures" were in fact successful attempts to sabotage Dany.

[nikma]

Just now, Eyes High said:

I guess the question is whether his "failures" were in fact successful attempts to sabotage Dany.

I don't think so. Maybe white hunt was an option to save his family after he saw what could happen to them in E4. 

But he just failed, because he is not that good. He underestimated Cersei and Jaime. I mean he failed in KL and Meereen as well. Dany and Tywin had to save him.

12 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Tyrion Lannister’s treason will be revealed in a scene featuring Jon, Arya, Sansa, Daenerys, and Tyrion himself. The scene will most likely be presented

Hmmm. Bran is not there. And he was there for similar scene with LF. He's dead?

Since S7 I felt that death makes the most sense for Bran, because it seems he is lost forever.

[GrailKing]

13 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

They're on dragonback, maybe...? 

It was also suggested on /Freefolk that they could be pieced in via VFX, with Kit and Emilia filming on greenscreen in the studio.

/Supes17 at /Freefolk posted a translation of Friki's Spanish language Q&A (and aren't there always rumours of Sansa's death? Sophie was at the Dragonpit, after all):

I remember someone said that Sansa's death could be a unintended consequence of his betrayal, so instead of at WF, it be in the DP.

I Hope NOT . 

[Eyes High]

12 minutes ago, nikma said:

I don't think so. Maybe white hunt was an option to save his family after he saw what could happen to them in E4. 

But he just failed, because he is not that good. He underestimated Cersei and Jaime. I mean he failed in KL and Meereen as well. Dany and Tywin had to save him.

Hmmm. Bran is not there. And he was there for similar scene with LF. He's dead?

Since S7 I felt that death makes the most sense for Bran, because it seems he is lost forever.

Maybe Tyrion murders Bran to cover up his treason. He was once accused of trying to kill Bran, and in S8 he actually goes through with it. Drama!

In all seriousness, I wonder why Bran isn't piping up if Tyrion is doing all this to sabotage Team Jon/Dany, which would interfere with the Great War Bran is so obsessed with. Maybe he's incapacitated somehow...?

7 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

I remember someone said that Sansa's death could be a unintended consequence of his betrayal, so instead of at WF, it be in the DP.

I Hope NOT . 

I'm not sure how, since she's present and (one imagines) alive at his trial, when he's already presumably under the control of the people running the trial. 

Unless Tyrion pulls some last-minute shenanigans that randomly result in Sansa's last-minute death in the Dragonpit during the trial, I don't see how it works. One thinks that if Friki's source knows what happens in the Dragonpit, he also knows what Sansa's doing there.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Eyes High

[nikma]

So Bronn will get CR? Lol

[bubble sparkly]

Why do these leaks throw up more questions than answers lol?

The whole Tyrion being revealed as a secret Targ right at the end thing is hysterical.  It took the Tarlys a few seconds to turn into ash, so do the Starks and Dany just sprint out of the DP the second after Dracarys if they don't notice he's alive?

[Eyes High]

17 minutes ago, nikma said:

So Bronn will get CR? Lol

Probably. 

17 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Why do these leaks throw up more questions than answers lol?

The whole Tyrion being revealed as a secret Targ right at the end thing is hysterical.  It took the Tarlys a few seconds to turn into ash, so do the Starks and Dany just sprint out of the DP the second after Dracarys if they don't notice he's alive?

Friki's information is that Tyrion dies, not just that he's sentenced to death. I don't know what /claytoy is on about.

It sounds like the trial and the confrontation scene are something that happen after the end of the conflict with the NK, with Tyrion marched out for the trial intercut with a scene where Jon, Dany, Sansa and Arya reveal his betrayals in flashbacks. It does sound like a classic murder mystery reveal, although it would be weird if Bran isn't present during the confrontation scene.

Isaac and Sophie both filmed in Seville, so I think Bran and Sansa are alive when all this goes down at the Dragonpit.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Friki's information is that Tyrion dies, not just that he's sentenced to death. I don't know what /claytoy is on about.

Per Claytoy, he stated he took it as a hilarious rumor from the source that spoke to him, not factual until he got more info.

[anamika]

39 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I'm not sure how, since she's present and (one imagines) alive at his trial, when he's already presumably under the control of the people running the trial. 

Unless Tyrion pulls some last-minute shenanigans that randomly result in Sansa's last-minute death in the Dragonpit during the trial, I don't see how it works. One thinks that if Friki's source knows what happens in the Dragonpit, he also knows what Sansa's doing there.

 

Considering that Friki is not placing Bran there and yet Isaac filmed in Seville, it could be that Sansa is just part of flashback montages and not necessarily there. Also what's up with BoatsexBaby's leaks about Sophie, Peter, Gwen and SweetRobin filming a separate scene with body doubles? I wonder what she has to say about all this...

Maybe Bran is showing them how Tyrion gets Sansa killed ....

Edited September 8, 2018 by anamika

[Eyes High]

30 minutes ago, anamika said:

Considering that Friki is not placing Bran there and yet Isaac filmed in Seville, it could be that Sansa is just part of flashback montages and not necessarily there. Also what's up with BoatsexBaby's leaks about Sophie, Peter, Gwen and SweetRobin filming a separate scene with body doubles? I wonder what she has to say about all this...

Maybe Bran is showing them how Tyrion gets Sansa killed ....

It sounds like the confrontation scene he's talking about with Jon/Dany/Sansa/Arya/Tyrion was filmed in Belfast on a closed set, and that's what is intercut with the trial...although you'd think it would make more sense to say everything at the trial, the way they did with Littlefinger.

Sophie filmed something in the Dragonpit. Unless it's something like Tyrion is hallucinating Sansa because she died as a result of his actions or an FM is wearing Sansa's face to make sure he feels really, really bad about what happened to her or whatever, I'm pretty sure Sansa's present and alive.

It would be hilarious if Betsy, who said that Tyrion betrays the Starks and Sansa dies at Winterfell, turns out to have been right the whole time. I guess we'll see.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

So, I'm still reading FF stuff, can someone explain the TWO Sansa's? That I just saw

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

So, I'm still reading FF stuff, can someone explain the TWO Sansa's? That I just saw

I think that was a typo 

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, GraceK said:

I think that was a typo 

OKay.

[OhOkayWhat]

I really dont get it when people say:

 

D&D think X character is Y

But in the show, X is not that!

Bad writing!

 

Whatever D&D think of X is probably whatever you see on screen

 

Did not occured to us that Interviews, Behind-of-scenes stuff, etc is mostly promotional material?

Edited September 8, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[WindyNights]

2 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

I really dont get it when people say:

 

D&D think X character is Y

But in the show, X is not that!

Bad writing!

 

Whatever D&D think of X is probably whatever you see on screen

 

Did not occured to us that Interviews, Behind-of-scenes stuff, etc is mostly promotional material?

If you're trying to convey something and it's not conveyed to the audience then that is bad writing. 

 

I dont see why they would lie in their interviews unless they were deliberately trying to hide something.

[OhOkayWhat]

20 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

If you're trying to convey something and it's not conveyed to the audience then that is bad writing. 

But people assume what are they trying to convey and then they criticize when the show does not show that. 

Edited September 8, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[OhOkayWhat]

One of those cases where people assumed stuff is Dark Sansa. People assumed Sansa becoming a political mastermind only because....what exactly?

Lying to a few Lords and changing her clothes?

Interviews? Behind the scenes commentaries?

If that is the case, then who is that Jon Snow on screen, because surely he is dead since season 5 last episode.

Edited September 8, 2018 by OhOkayWhat

[Happy Harpy]

I don't believe for a second that Tyrion was in cahoots with Cersei in S7. People theorized that he and Cersei could have made a deal from the day 7x07 aired because the end of their conversation wasn't showed, and it could be. OTOH D&D tend to skip such scenes for maximum surprise effect (LF's trial, for one). Moreover, although I speculate about it, I keep in mind that Tyrion's betrayal theories and "spoilers" could come solely from those missing moments.

I think if he betrays, his deep motivations would be dark and selfish but not necessarily his acts and at least, not at first. I don't see him as a LF, flat out lying and manipulating for the sake of it and knowing it's evil. Imo, because Dany chose Jon over him, he's going to convince himself that she's unreliable and going to cause everyone's doom. So I can see him take things in his own hands, like ignoring orders or acting behind Dany and Jon's back "for their own good", only for his plan to backfire and cause a huge disaster. And once he's on that slippery slope, well, he'd slip for good and reach the point of no return.

I came to wonder whether all those fleakers who suddenly agree with each other could be the same person with multiple accounts. claytoy and the Betsy one have that same tendency to Munchausen by Internet if you ask me. They all have different sources in different countries working on different parts of production but who know the same things, LOL. Those things always happen to pertain to whatever is having the sub in a twist at the moment, LOLx2. And they in fact had that info all along but wanted to be sure (not that they had proof of anything else they gave), LOLx3. Sure, Jan.

HBO won this season. So many fleakers, filming done, short of proof like true script pages nothing will be certain imo.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[OhOkayWhat]

5 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

HBO won this season.

Oh! I so agree with that. I actually feel like we know nothing, even Jon knows more..

[anamika]

So do we now have a political!Tyrion and undercover Tyrion manipulating and deceiving Dany? Will Jon x Sansa shippers jump ship to the undercover Tyrion theory?

I also very much doubt that Jon/Dany are either dying or running off somewhere if Tyrion is indeed dead at the end. Who is going to be in charge of leading and rebuilding Westeros if these three characters are gone? Sansa?

[Dezzdemona]

One thing we haven't mentioned in our speculation about Tyrion's possible motivations for a betrayal is the eventual reveal that Jon Snow is actually a Targaryen and not a Stark.   He came to like (love?) and respect Dany as a person, and we know he likes and respects Jon Snow as well.  But how would he feel about a full on restoration of the Targaryen dynasty on the Iron Throne?

I don't believe Tyrion would ever form any kind of alliance with Cersei.  She has never been anything but vile toward him, and she would never forgive him for murdering their father.  IF he does betray Dany and Jon, IMO it won't have anything to do with furthering Cersei's interests whatsoever.

[bubble sparkly]

Assuming there is a Tyrion betrayal, I could definitely see him trying to justify a plot towards Jon (i.e. arranging for him to be captured by Lannister forces or purposely trying to endanger him during the war etc.) by telling himself he's doing it for Dany by protecting her title as Queen from Targ competition.  Especially if you have Varys or some of the Northern Lords saying that maybe Jon should be King etc.

I do agree with others that have pointed out it seems odd that Bran isn't part of the big reveal, or that he apparently doesn't sense this ongoing betrayal with his 3ER powers.  Of course, Bran didn't think it was pertinent to tell Sansa and Arya that LF was playing them against each other last season so maybe Tyrion's betrayal is part of the bigger picture?

[nikma]

7 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It does sound like a classic murder mystery reveal, although it would be weird if Bran isn't present during the confrontation scene

And NCW did say that "killer" will be known in tha last act and it will all make sense.

[GraceK]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

nd NCW did say that "killer" will be known in tha last act and it will all make sense.

Didn’t he say that it’s not one of those endings where the killer is suddenly known in the last act and it all makes sense? But that it fits together nicely from the very beginning?

[nikma]

11 hours ago, nikma said:

 It still made sense. It wasn’t like one of those where the killer is suddenly revealed in the last act and you go, ‘Oh! I didn’t see that coming.’ 

So he said that set up is good enough.

[Wouter]

What is Friki's track record, exactly? Last year it was Lads who leaked all there was to leak, and AFAIK Friki only got (extra) spoilers shortly before the episodes aired. What did he leak in the past that turned out to be accurate (and wasn't already spoiled by other means before)? 

In this case, it seems the filming info doesn't 100% add up with his claims. As has been pointed out, Isaac was present in Seville but Friki knows nothing about that. Friki's own claim that Kit didn't film in Seville and that Emilia wasn't there at all (at least the latter does add up with filming info) is very curious when taken together with his claim that the dragonpit is Tyrion's trial (as opposed to merely his execution) and his apparent expectation that Dany and Jon survive his betrayal and the war. 

Suppose that last season, Sansa would have betrayed Jon by conspiring with LF to overthrow him. Would we have considered it normal if nor he, nor Arya had been present at the trial afterwards, leaving it to be run by Lord Royce, Lord Glover and Lady Mormont instead? Unless it is a completely mock trial and his guilt has been long established, Jon and/or Dany should be there to pass judgment rather than leave it to ... who exactly, Sweetrobin? You don't lead a trial from dragonback. 

It would also seem to me that if his source knows enough to spoil all this, he also should know what happens to Dany and Jon, at least up to the point of the trial.

13 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Didn’t he say that it’s not one of those endings where the killer is suddenly known in the last act and it all makes sense? But that it fits together nicely from the very beginning?

Yes, and to me this sounds rather like it is about the White Walkers/NK/The Long Night. It's not like Tyrion has been planning all this from S1E01. Even the other rumour mentioned above, about Tyrion having been working together with Cersei already in Meereen, is extremely unlikely given we have his POV from the books and he hates Cersei with a passion.

Edited September 8, 2018 by Wouter

[GraceK]

11 minutes ago, nikma said:

So he said that set up is good enough.

Yeah but I don’t think he meant a literal killer is revealed. I think he’s talking about how some shows pull a stupid twist at the end that make no sense, and that he was happy that Game Of thrones didn’t do this. That the finale comes together in away that fits together and isn’t one of those stupid you gotcha reveals.

5 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Even the other rumour mentioned above, about Tyrion having been working together with Cersei already in Meereen, is extremely unlikely given we have his POV from the books and he hates Cersei with a passion.

Especially since he was also on the run for killing his father, Cersei Hates him with a passion as well for “ killing Joffrey” and that he barely escaped being executed for a murder he didn’t commit. It makes no sense that he’s secretly working with Cersei at the same time. Any betrayal will come way down the line, it wouldn’t have been long term plot since he met Dany.

Edited September 8, 2018 by GraceK

[cambridgeguy]

There's only one reason Tyrion would have for betraying the Starks that doesn't totally blow up his character - saving Jaime's life.  If/when the Starks find out about what he did to Bran they'll probably want to execute him on the spot and I don't see Dany being inclined to disagree with that sentiment.  Kill him for any insubordination related to that and you have a perfect way for him to go out in a conflicted way.  If it ends up playing like jealousy over Dany hooking up with Jon and effectively demoting Tyrion to figurehead hand then it ruins one of the show's heroes (and Tyrion is unquestionably a hero on the show).

Edited September 8, 2018 by cambridgeguy

[Wouter]

6 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Yeah but I don’t think he meant a literal killer is revealed. I think he’s talking about how some shows pull a stupid twist at the end that make no sense, and that he was happy that Game Of thrones didn’t do this. That the finale comes together in away that fits together and isn’t one of those stupid you gotcha reveals.

 

Yes, and this last-minute betrayal by Tyrion seems like it could well be a stupid twist, unless his motivation turns out to be believable. Tyrion could easily betray Dany in order to save Jaime, but since it looks like Jaime is defecting to Jon/Dany anyway, that's one reason less. Tyrion acting out of jealousy doesn't seem that great of a twist, even if GRRM's original outline may have been pointing to something like this with the Arya/Jon/Tyrion triangle. But some mild foreshadowing in S7 aside, all development on that front would have come during S8 alone, wereas I got the impression it was to be a thing from early on in the original outline.

[nikma]

If they don't write it well, it could feel like stupid twist, but I don't think that will stop it from happening.

[Wouter]

11 hours ago, nikma said:

There is a theory at Free Folk that Tyrion is responsible for the fall of WF and the fact that Cersei got Jon. 

"The fact that Cersei got Jon". This is a fact? Isn't it more a rumour and/or theory? We know Cersei and Jon meet, circumstances are unknown as of yet.

[GrailKing]

Well the fandom is abuzz, Book Tyrion and Show Tyrion need to be in the same place arc wise, Book Tyrion isn't a nice person, NOT P.D. .

If they force this like they did Sansa's arc it'll blow up in their face. Book Sansa was scared, but we see she's resisting and slowly playing to stay alive, in the show they excised most of her arc for shock; and removed most of her training and nuance to wedge her in the J.P. role.

So either all those supposed(poor ) moves were hints: getting Jorah removed a second time from Danny, Danny suffering the losses of House Martell, Tyrell and Possibly Grayjoy, sending people North; if they are not hints, but they fall on the Cersei talks instead; I think there be another riot.

Tyrion does hate Cersei, but he loved deeply Tommen and Myrcella and I can see him doing it for love of the child and Jaime.

Going against the Starks would be hard, but some of his history with them leaves some evil thoughts: Sansa's rejection of him, countered with him and Jon bonding, other scenes not in show, add Jon and Danny romance and it's a fuse. If he does open the gates of Winterfell for the Golden Company and either Jon or Sansa captured taken to KL and they are tortured or killed it match his book arc, but only if they flush out his rejections well enough  or rehash them in the opening scenes.

He never bets against family.

Edited September 8, 2018 by GrailKing

[GrailKing]

Have salt ready:

Posted byu/claytoy
My mind is my weapon2 hours ago
Some more rumored minor info
Secondary grapevine sources / rumors:a

Theon's death. Tragic, heroic. Not only saved Yara before, but saves Jon/Arya from back when they're fighting, preminiscent of saving Bran and Robb.

Cleaganebowl finally confirmed. Mountain was put on fire and pushed by Sandor. Rumored to fall in ep6, among fleeing people and destroyed architectures.

First hand: Arya, Gendry, Hound and wolf pack walking out of a forest. Facial expressions: Gendry is scared about while Hound is irritated about wolves. Arya seems to not notice and looking forward. No riding in this scene. Episode unknown.

No sounds still now.

[nikma]

I hope they give great speech to Tyrion where he will explain his reasons.

[YaddaYadda]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

I also very much doubt that Jon/Dany are either dying or running off somewhere if Tyrion is indeed dead at the end. Who is going to be in charge of leading and rebuilding Westeros if these three characters are gone? Sansa?

Well, she is the smartest smart to ever smart.

3 hours ago, Dezzdemona said:

One thing we haven't mentioned in our speculation about Tyrion's possible motivations for a betrayal is the eventual reveal that Jon Snow is actually a Targaryen and not a Stark. He came to like (love?) and respect Dany as a person, and we know he likes and respects Jon Snow as well.  But how would he feel about a full on restoration of the Targaryen dynasty on the Iron Throne?

There was talk last season before Dany flew north to rescue the idiots on the rock when Tyrion was talking about succession. He said that she needed to name an heir because she wasn't going to live forever and she couldn't have children. That was a topic Dany did not want to broach. Maybe there was some expectation that Dany would name him Tyrion her heir?

And now in one fell swoop, Dany is not only with Jon, but he is also family she did not know she had and she could be pregnant. 

This could be a power grab.

[WearyTraveler]

If Tyrion betrays JD and there is a trial, one way JD can be present, even though Kit and Emilia didn't film in the Dragon Pit with Peter and the other actors, is if JD are sitting on dragons who are perched on the walls of the Dragon Pit. 

 

The dragons would function as thrones. They would have been filmed at a VFX studio and added during editing. If the sentence is Draccarys,  this would also explain a potential need for actors that are not usually involved in action sequences (e.g. Sophie) to have a stunt double. Their characters could have to jump out of the fire path, or something.

Edited September 8, 2018 by WearyTraveler

[GraceK]

17 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

This could be a power grab.

He could have made some backdoor deal with Cersei that in exchange for her help, her kid would named Danys heir. ?‍♀️ Maybe  he feels that’s still the best case scenario cause it ensures Jaimes line will continue and he will be regent. Who knows?

 

#tyrionisnthenightking ?

Edited September 8, 2018 by GraceK

[GrailKing]

1 minute ago, GraceK said:

He could have made some backdoor deal with Cersei that in exchange for her help, her kid would named Danys heir. ?‍♀️ Maybe  he feels that’s still the best case scenario cause it ensures Jaimes line will continue and he will be regent. Who knows?

It's too bad they didn't add more of Quaithe in the series, I guess they considered all the prophesies to spoilery. 

[Eyes High]

The interesting question for me is when Tyrion decided to turn on Dany. If he decided back in Season 5 that Dany was a threat to his family, which led him to advise her to exile Jorah again, that is a hell of a long con.

It seems more likely, though, that he started as Dany’s advisor in good faith, judging from his emotional reaction from being appointed Hand, with his early S7 failures chalked up to indecision rather than conscious sabotage, and only changed his mind about her after 7x04.

[YaddaYadda]

26 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

It's too bad they didn't add more of Quaithe in the series, I guess they considered all the prophesies to spoilery. 

Quaithe, Moqorro's vision is important too.

[nikma]

20 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The interesting question for me is when Tyrion decided to turn on Dany. If he decided back in Season 5 that Dany was a threat to his family, which led him to advise her to exile Jorah again, that is a hell of a long con.

It seems more likely, though, that he started as Dany’s advisor in good faith, judging from his emotional reaction from being appointed Hand, with his early S7 failures chalked up to indecision rather than conscious sabotage, and only changed his mind about her after 7x04.

Yeah. Watch that scene in E4 when Dany turns to Jon for advice and ignores Tyrion.  Look the staging of that scene  I think that's his turning point, that's when he realized he is losing her.

 

And at the end of E4 when Jaime almost died he knows for sure he can't hurt his family. So Bran gives him an option with that letter about WW to push for truce with Lannisters. And he wanted Dany to let Jon die north of the Wall in E6.

[Wouter]

44 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

If Tyrion betrays JD and there is a trial, one way JD can be present, even though Kit and Emilia didn't film in the Dragon Pit with Peter and the other actors, is if JD are sitting on dragons who are perched on the walls of the Dragon Pit. 

 

The dragons would function as thrones. They would have been filmed at a VFX studio and added during editing. If the sentence is Draccarys,  this would also explain a potential need for actors that are not usually involved in action sequences (e.g. Sophie) to have a stunt double. Their characters could have to jump out of the fire path, or something.

That would mean both dragons survived the war with the NK, or that Dany and Jon are both on Drogon's back (or Rhaegal if he is the one to survive). 

 

Something else that isn't explained by Friki is why 2 actors portraying Faceless (wo)men are present in the Seville scenes.

[bubble sparkly]

I wonder if the “Tyrion betrayal flashbacks” will include a continuation of the Tyrion / Cersei scene from 7x7 where he presumably makes some sort of deal with her?

This news is also making me think about one of the previous leakers (maybe boatsexbaby?) who said that there would be some kind of explanation for the WW that would bring everything from the start of the show full circle and explain their motives etc. Perhaps there was some confusion because Friki’s spoilers make it sound like Tyrion is getting the big full circle explanation.

[domina89]

If Tyrion does betray J/D in an effort to ensure the Lannister line survives (through Cersei and Jaime's child), it would be bittersweet indeed if he, Jaime and Cersei all die thinking their house is gone forever only for it to be revealed later that Brienne is carrying Jaime's child from a night of passion at Winterfell (wishful thinking on my part, lol).