Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Eyes High]

7 hours ago, SimoneS said:

It doesn't seem like the filming at Seville was the denouement any more or at least most of it was not so I am beginning to feel optimistic about Jon and Dany's fates once more. Gilly and Missandei are likely inside King's Landing and not dead or not as yet anyway.

 

What do you think that they were filming at Dragonpit? Or why some of these characters would be there? If it was Sansa's last scene, Sophie's tweet makes sense, but still I find it difficult to believe that she dies.

 

Yeah, it sounds like the Seville day shoot is not denouement, which is good news for Dany and Jon fans.

If the Dragonpit scene is KL battle stuff, it sounds like Tyrion, Sansa, Robin and Brienne are cornered by wights. The Knights of the Vale supposedly filmed, though, so maybe they get bailed out. Or maybe Robin pulls a Neville Longbottom and comes through in the clutch.

I think /BoatsexBaby said that Jon, Dany, Arya, Melisandre, Davos, Jaime and Brienne are involved in the KL battle, since their actors filmed KL scenes in Belfast, but Sansa and Tyrion are not on that list. We also know that Kit, Maisie and Liam have been filming KL Belfast stuff without Peter and Sophie. It also seems as if Jaime is dead by the time the Brienne/Sansa/Robin scene happens.

So it’s a good question what Tyrion and Sansa are doing when Jaime and Brienne are fighting the dead and Davos and Arya are infiltrating KL.

5 hours ago, WindyNights said:

Sansa dying by wight in KL is kinda silly to think could be legitimate. How does that tie into her character arc?

It doesn’t, which is why I would be skeptical that she dies that way.

5 hours ago, WindyNights said:

The most interesting thing though is that the final battle is going to extend to the last episode. That means that we won't hav an episode for an epilogue and we likely won't have much of an epilogue. 

I wanted a nice, leisurely epilogue, but it looks like a big chunk of the finale will be devoted to the final battle. Phooey.

1 hour ago, Happy Harpy said:

But only one of those who are left wasn't part of the OG5. And you only need a good stewart to run a large holding.

 

Yeah, Sansa being left off the OG5 survivor list makes her a lot more vulnerable than the other five. And Sophie’s tweet does not inspire a lot of confidence that whatever was filmed in Seville ends well for the characters involved (Tyrion, Sansa, Brienne, and Robin).

The news about the KL shoot reminds me of what that HBO executive said about the table read (actors reading their characters dying one by one) and what another crew member said more recently (a lot of deaths with a few survivors, or words to that effect). The list of characters involved in the KL battle is going to have a lot of casualties by the end of the finale. They’re not going to do a battle that big without killing off a lot of characters.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

The news about the KL shoot reminds me of what that HBO executive said about the table read (actors reading their characters dying one by one) and what another crew member said more recently (a lot of deaths with a few survivors, or words to that effect). The list of characters involved in the KL battle is going to have a lot of casualties by the end of the finale. They’re not going to do a battle that big without killing off a lot of characters.

 

I have always expected most of the characters on the front of the war and conflict to die ; Tormund, Bronn, Beric, the Hound, the Mountain, Grey Worm, Melissandre, Lord Royce, Jorah, etc. I still think Jaime and Cersei will die and their deaths will be tied to each other. They will have one last confrontation before the end. This means my list of predicted survivors is still long: Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Davos, Missandei, Sam, Gilly, little Sam, Varys, Sansa, Brienne, Gendry, Pod, Theon, and Yara. I will add Robin and Lyanna Mormont to the survivors' list.

Edited May 21, 2018 by SimoneS

[Wouter]

On 20-5-2018 at 1:29 PM, WearyTraveler said:

The magic arc is in the books is the reverse, actually.   When we start the story in AGoT, there are very few magical creatures around, particularly in Westeros.  Direwolves and dragons have not been seem for hundreds of years, which is why Jon finding the pups is such a big deal for House Stark, and the fact that there was one pup for each child is meant to make the event even more significant.

Then we have Dany "birthing" dragons and the return of the WW, who had been dormant (believed extinct) for so long, that even the Night's Watch forgot they were the real reason The Wall was built in the first place.

When Dany was in Qarth, she is told that after the birth of her dragons, all magic seems to be much more powerful, and that people can do things now that they couldn't do before.

There is heated fan debate on the subject: did magic start coming back to Planetos after the birth of the Prince that Was Promised (be said figure Jon or Dany) and is that caused the WW to rise again? or was magic already making a comeback and thus TPTWP becomes necessary?

But what is not disputed is the rebirth of magic itself in Planetos, this is a fact.  When TCOTF and other characters speak about magic, what many say is that it was actually bad that Men forgot all about it, because only magic could provide the answers to fight the WW and their army of zombies.

All true, but the books seem to present this as one last hurrah for the magical types; This is what Leaf (a Child of the Forest) said to Bran: "Before the First Men came all this land that you call Westeros was home to us, yet even in those days we were few. The gods gave us long lives but not great numbers, lest we overrun the world as deer will overrun a wood where there are no wolves to hunt them. That was in the dawn of days, when our sun was rising. Now it sinks, and this is our long dwindling. The giants are almost gone as well, they who were our bane and our brothers. The great lions of the western hills have been slain, the unicorns are all but gone, the mammoths down to a few hundred. The direwolves will outlast us all, but their time will come as well. In the world that men have made, there is no room for them, or us."

[Wouter]

15 hours ago, SimoneS said:

It is possible that the exterior battle scenes with Brienne and Jaime were filmed in Seville and his character dies in the interior scenes filmed in Belfast.

If D&D were directing, some of the scenes in Seville had to be in the final episode which suggests the war continues until the last episode.

As I earlier posted and has been illustrated by the claims about Magheramone filming pertaining to multiple scenes, episodes and locations, it's very possible that D&D directed some scenes for 8x05 - because they happened to be set in the dragonpit (so had to be filmed at the Italica site) and because the director for 8x05 was otherwise engaged. I don't see how we can conclude with any certainty that the final battle with the NK will extend to 8x06. It seems unlikely to me, especially because D&D aren't action directors and would want to limit this kind of stuff to a minimum. If a lot of the Italica scenes involved action, they would probably not have been the directors taking this assignment.

How reliable is /boatsexbaby, what's her (?) track record?

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

I have always expected most of the characters on the front of the war and conflict to die ; Tormund, Bronn, Beric, the Hound, the Mountain, Grey Worm, Melissandre, Lord Royce, Jorah, etc. I still think Jaime and Cersei will die and their deaths will be tied to each other. They will have one last confrontation before the end. This means my list of predicted survivors is still long: Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya, Bran, Davos, Missandei, Sam, Gilly, little Sam, Varys, Sansa, Brienne, Gendry, Pod, Theon, and Yara. I will add Robin and Lyanna Mormont to the survivors' list.

 

The problem is that it seems that by the time the final KL battle rolls around, a number of expendable characters will already be dead: Tormund, Beric, Pod, Bronn, etc. So more heads will be required to roll. Maybe it will be the likes of Melisandre, the NK, Jaime, Cersei, etc., but I doubt it will be that easy.

/Claytoy at /Freefolk has a theory that if the stand-ins were done by the weekend—they spent Sunday filming documentary stuff—then whatever was filmed on Monday and Tuesday was too spoilery for them to be involved (which, given that /BoatsexBaby’s source seems to be one of the doubles, seems to be a fair assessment). So there could be denouement stuff filmed on Monday and Tuesday...I guess. Doesn’t seem like a lot of time to film anything, honestly.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Eyes High

[glowbug]

Do we have any indication that the long spoiler posted a few pages ago is fake? I think someone already mentioned it had been debunked but none of the filming spoilers I can remember (granted my memory is terrible now that I have two young children) contradict it. I’m also not sure when it was posted versus which spoilers were already known. I’m really hoping that leak is fake but I’m starting to get worried. 

[Eyes High]

4 hours ago, Wouter said:

As I earlier posted and has been illustrated by the claims about Magheramone filming pertaining to multiple scenes, episodes and locations, it's very possible that D&D directed some scenes for 8x05 - because they happened to be set in the dragonpit (so had to be filmed at the Italica site) and because the director for 8x05 was otherwise engaged. I don't see how we can conclude with any certainty that the final battle with the NK will extend to 8x06. It seems unlikely to me, especially because D&D aren't action directors and would want to limit this kind of stuff to a minimum. If a lot of the Italica scenes involved action, they would probably not have been the directors taking this assignment.

How reliable is /boatsexbaby, what's her (?) track record?

D&D may have wanted to direct a big action sequence, so it’s possible that much of the KL battle is in 8x06 after all. It sounds as if the battle is going to be filmed the same way as the wight hunt lake battle was filmed: green screen in Northern Ireland and then drone camera shots for the background. 

As for /BoatsexBaby, I'm guessing that she's getting some information from one of the doubles or someone who works with them: /BoatsexBaby has detailed information about and pics of the doubles. With that said, I’m guessing the source or /BoatsexBaby is withholding information. They know that “a battle” takes place, but not what happens? They know which doubles are filming and when, but not what they filmed? I’m calling bullshit.

The other thing that bothers me is that if /BoatsexBaby is right about the Seville shoots being continuations of KL battle stuff that was filmed in Northern Ireland, you wouldn’t expect actors to film in Seville who didn’t film in Northern Ireland, and you wouldn’t expect actors who filmed in Northern Ireland to skip Seville. And yet we have Peter and Sophie filming in Seville when they skipped the Magheramorne stuff, and NCW not filming at all or very little despite filming at Magheramorne. Why have two sets of actors? 

The other thing that bothers me is that using the wight lake battle as a model for the Seville filming, why would actors and doubles needed on location for action scenes film in Seville at all? Why wouldn’t they just film it all in Northern Ireland? Not to mention that four days (Thursday, Friday, Monday, and Tuesday) isn't much time to film much of anything.

Lastly, Kit's double arrived with the other doubles and was spotted leaving the set on Thursday or Friday with Peter's double, but Kit didn't film anything until Tuesday night/Wednesday morning. 

I think /BoatsexBaby is legit, but a lot doesn’t add up.

For what it's worth, Javi has said that his sources have told him that some actors who showed up in Seville didn't film anything there for Season 8. I'm thinking Lena, Conleth and NCW.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

35 minutes ago, glowbug said:

Do we have any indication that the long spoiler posted a few pages ago is fake? I think someone already mentioned it had been debunked but none of the filming spoilers I can remember (granted my memory is terrible now that I have two young children) contradict it. I’m also not sure when it was posted versus which spoilers were already known. I’m really hoping that leak is fake but I’m starting to get worried. 

Didn't the author post their others "leaks" under the title "fanfiction" afterwards? There were so many fleaks and I didn't bother reading the super-long detailed ones, it was a first giveway they were fake imo.

10 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The other thing that bothers me is that using the wight lake battle as a model for the Seville filming, why would actors and doubles needed on location for action scenes film in Seville at all? Why wouldn’t they just film it all in Northern Ireland?

I think /BoatsexBaby is legit, but a lot doesn’t add up.

It could be a simple question of logistics. They can't do everything their want on historical locations. Maybe, simply, they couldn't put a huge green screen there the way they do at the quarry.

They're filming different scenes from different places on the show, so it doesn't shock me that there are have different sets of actors.

I'm starting to get worried about Brienne. I thought she'd survive and they wouldn't kill both her and Jaime. If she dies saving Sweetrobin I'm going to be royally pissed off. I hope he's the red shirt of the lot.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[Sunshinegal]

I suspect that Sansa and Tyrion are in King's Landing because Cersei put a price on their head and somebody kidnapped them to get the bounty.  But when they arrived at King's Landing, Cersei already left and the person or person's who kidnapped them are stuck with them and have to find Cersei to collect the money.  I assume that Sansa's and Tyrion's story with Cersei is not over yet.  I also assume Brienne and Robin are there to help them.

[Eyes High]

32 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

It could be a simple question of logistics. They can't do everything their want on historical locations. Maybe, simply, they couldn't put a huge green screen there the way they do at the quarry.

 

I don't claim to know much about the logistics of filming, but a lot about it doesn't make any sense to me. Why do they need to film Brienne, Sansa, Tyrion, and Robin's scene and Kit and Grey Worm's scene on location but everything else can be filmed at Magheramorne? They didn't film any S7 lake battle scenes in Iceland, just the trudging around parts.

Quote

I'm starting to get worried about Brienne. I thought she'd survive and they wouldn't kill both her and Jaime. If she dies saving Sweetrobin I'm going to be royally pissed off. I hope he's the red shirt of the lot.

Sansa and/or Tyrion being killed by wights makes very little sense for their arcs, or at least what I thought were their arcs, although I guess it could be ironic if Sansa and/or Tyrion spent all this time worrying about Cersei only to survive Cersei handily but get offed by a wight mob. Again, though, Sansa and/or Tyrion getting torn to pieces by wights seems like the sort of thing that would be filmed in Northern Ireland.

I thought GRRM said something a while ago to the effect that Brienne wasn't safe. Brienne dying to save a Stark sister would make some sense, at least. 

...Cynically, I'm wondering if D&D are planning a massacre in Season 8 of all or most of the secondary characters so they don't have to bother with coming up with epilogues for all these people (since it's possible or even likely that they only know GRRM's endgames for the main characters).

25 minutes ago, Sunshinegal said:

I suspect that Sansa and Tyrion are in King's Landing because Cersei put a price on their head and somebody kidnapped them to get the bounty.

I think Sansa and Tyrion are probably going to be roped into the same storyline in S8. They're pretty much the "leftovers" of the Team Jon/Dany main cast in the fight against the WWs, having neither dragons, magic, specialized knowledge nor skill at arms to contribute. Moreover, they've both been eclipsed as Jon and Dany's advisors: Jon relies on Davos and Dany relies on Jon.

As for what form Sansa and Tyrion's storyline will take, I don't know, but a smart person would bet on Cersei having something to do with it.

...I really don't like the idea of Sansa and Tyrion being reduced to kidnapping victims in Season 8 while Jon, Arya, Dany and Davos get to do all the cool shit and noble feats of derring-do, but Cersei has had it out for both Sansa and Tyrion for a very long time, so a final confrontation makes sense.

Quote

I also assume Brienne and Robin are there to help them.

It sounds as if this may be the sequence of events:

1. Jaime and Brienne fight the AOTD.

2. Jaime dies.

3. Brienne tries to protect Sansa and Tyrion in the big KL battle.

4. Someone dies? Robin saves them? Who knows?

Not sure how Robin figures into it. Maybe he's a hapless redshirt, or maybe he shows up to save the day with the Knights of the Vale.

I'm also not sure how all this fits into Sandor and Gregor in KL, since /BoatsexBaby has said that they were involved in the KL battle as well. If Cersei is in the picture, you wouldn't expect Gregor to be far behind, and if Sansa is in peril in KL, you'd expect Sandor to be helping her as well as Brienne...unless of course Sandor is already dead by the time Sansa gets trapped in the Dragonpit or whatever. 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Eyes High

[whateverdgaf]

12 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I thought GRRM said something a while ago to the effect that Brienne wasn't safe. Brienne dying to save a Stark sister would make some sense, at least. 

No character is safe. Brienne is no more in danger than any other character.

And I can't lie, if Brienne has to die it better be by Jaime's side going down fighting White Walkers. The last thing her character needs is to give up more for the Stark girls. Especially Sansa who doesn't care about her in the slightest and Arya who can "take care of herself".

[GrailKing]

14 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

No character is safe. Brienne is no more in danger than any other character.

And I can't lie, if Brienne has to die it better be by Jaime's side going down fighting White Walkers. The last thing her character needs is to give up more for the Stark girls. Especially Sansa who doesn't care about her in the slightest and Arya who can "take care of herself".

What makes you think Sansa doesn't care about Brienne? because she was a bit gruff about KL?, Sansa saw part of the picture; LF was going to use Brienne in his plans, Sansa was no more mean even less so than Brienne was to Podrick. 

People don't want her to die protecting Sansa, but want's to jump down her throat for giving a directive, which Brienne argues over, after she swears into her service.

Sansa kept her part, having to have Brienne get in a fight between the sisters would put her at odds with her sworn vows, thus working into LF plans, thus Brienne would have to choose a sister; which would be dishonorable for her.

[Happy Harpy]

6 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

No character is safe. Brienne is no more in danger than any other character.

And I can't lie, if Brienne has to die it better be by Jaime's side going down fighting White Walkers. The last thing her character needs is to give up more for the Stark girls. Especially Sansa who doesn't care about her in the slightest and Arya who can "take care of herself".

No matter how much I love Arya, I don't want Brienne to die for her; but again they don't seem involved in the same part of the battle. And yeah, she dying for Sansa, who never trusted her or valued her as she should have imo, would piss me off almost as much as SR.

25 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I don't claim to know much about the logistics of filming, but a lot about it doesn't make any sense to me. Why do they need to film Brienne, Sansa, Tyrion, and Robin's scene and Kit and Grey Worm's scene on location but everything else can be filmed at Magheramorne? They didn't film any S7 lake battle scenes in Iceland, just the trudging around parts.

It also depends on close-ups vs large plans, for example. For the same kind of reasons, I guess, they filmed a couple of little scenes in Dubrovnik or even Cersei at the pier back in S6, when Jaime came back with Myrcella's body.

[GraceK]

11 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

What makes you think Sansa doesn't care about Brienne? because she was a bit gruff about KL?, Sansa saw part of the picture; LF was going to use Brienne in his plans, Sansa was no more mean even less so than Brienne was to Podrick. 

People don't want her to die protecting Sansa, but want's to jump down her throat for giving a directive, which Brienne argues over, after she swears into her service.

Sansa kept her part, having to have Brienne get in a fight between the sisters would put her at odds with her sworn vows, thus working into LF plans, thus Brienne would have to choose a sister; which would be dishonorable for her.

Can we please stop with this narrative that Sansa is this altruistic all seeing saint? Sansa sent Brienne away because she wasn’t sure whose side Brienne would take of Arya was going to go after Sansa. She also wanted Brienne out of the way in case Sansa was going to in fact act AGAINST Arya. The writers even said on the blue ray commentary that we are supposed to wonder if Sansa is going to the dark side. This idea that Sansa was hip to Littlefingers plan all season long and was playing a long game all season is bullshit ok? It literally took until the last second when she spoke to Bran that she realized Littlefinger was playing them the whole time, so she didn’t send Brienne away for Briennes sake. This constant defending of Sansa is getting just as tiresome as this constant hatred of Sansa. The whole north plot of season 7 was stupid and the writers pretty much made both sisters look petty and annoying for the purposes of conflict for conflicts sake .

[GrailKing]

57 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Can we please stop with this narrative that Sansa is this altruistic all seeing saint? Sansa sent Brienne away because she wasn’t sure whose side Brienne would take of Arya was going to go after Sansa. She also wanted Brienne out of the way in case Sansa was going to in fact act AGAINST Arya. The writers even said on the blue ray commentary that we are supposed to wonder if Sansa is going to the dark side. This idea that Sansa was hip to Littlefingers plan all season long and was playing a long game all season is bullshit ok? It literally took until the last second when she spoke to Bran that she realized Littlefinger was playing them the whole time, so she didn’t send Brienne away for Briennes sake. This constant defending of Sansa is getting just as tiresome as this constant hatred of Sansa. The whole north plot of season 7 was stupid and the writers pretty much made both sisters look petty and annoying for the purposes of conflict for conflicts sake .

Which Sansa did pick up on, she would be a pawn in LF game. Sansa already knows LF is all for himself, what part of : you've declared for other houses before Lord Baleish, it never stopped you from serving your self. or the 5 seasons he's been around her, or telling Brienne why she still keeps him close. Sansa going to Bran would be a logical step for her, something is off with Arya, she's belligerent with Sansa, threatens to take her face,maybe be Lady of Winterfell, all this is baffling to her, and for his part Bran thought it was foolish sister angst, that's why he didn't interfere, not until Sansa asked : whats up with Arya, or I need answers etc ( pick your words ) does he give her what she doesn't know.

I take the sister stuff as in character based on 7 seasons of what we know: they were polar opposites, Arya feels Sansa was the cause of Micah's death, was supporting the Lannisters on the dais ( not knowing that Sansa was expecting her father to be spared ), even with her scene with jaquen her I have to find my sister too was not spoken in the same frame as Bran or Rickons, and her cold acceptance of Sansa's embrace, or her opinion of Sansa placating the lords while Jon's away. Sansa and Jon emotionally moved on Arya did not, in her mind Sansa was 11-13 YO version.

 

ETA : I like Brienne: she's one of my YMB choices.

Edited May 21, 2018 by GrailKing

[Sunshinegal]

32 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I think Sansa and Tyrion are probably going to be roped into the same storyline in S8. They're pretty much the "leftovers" of the Team Jon/Dany main cast in the fight against the WWs, having neither dragons, magic, specialized knowledge nor skill at arms to contribute. Moreover, they've both been eclipsed as Jon and Dany's advisors: Jon relies on Davos and Dany relies on Jon.

As for what form Sansa and Tyrion's storyline will take, I don't know, but a smart person would bet on Cersei having something to do with it.

...I really don't like the idea of Sansa and Tyrion being reduced to kidnapping victims in Season 8 while Jon, Arya, Dany and Davos get to do all the cool shit and noble feats of derring-do, but Cersei has had it out for both Sansa and Tyrion for a very long time, so a final confrontation makes sense.

I also don't like the idea of Sansa and Tyrion just being reduced to kidnapping victims either.  Even though I think it will be part of their arcs and I think they both have unfinished business with Cersei.  I think Sansa's role in season 8 at Winterfell will be like what happened doing the battle at Blackwater.  And Tyrion's political acumen will be needed in season 8.  Even though Sansa and Tyrion probably won't have any cool fighting scenes, their roles to me are just as important. 

[whateverdgaf]

46 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

What makes you think Sansa doesn't care about Brienne?

Because at no point ever since they met has Sansa shown Brienne care, friendship or the even the slightest hint of comradeship. Her behaviour attitude haven't at any point suggested she cared about Brienne, so it's safe to conclude that Sansa doesn't care about Brienne.

 I actually like Sansa. She's my favourite Stark. But Brienne is my favourite character full stop and I have a lot of issues with the way Sansa treats Brienne, and what it would mean for Brienne's character if her arc ends up revolving around a girl who barely spares her a thought. It would be a tragedy, all bitter and no sweet.

[GrailKing]

7 minutes ago, Sunshinegal said:

I also don't like the idea of Sansa and Tyrion just being reduced to kidnapping victims either.  Even though I think it will be part of their arcs and I think they both have unfinished business with Cersei.  I think Sansa's role in season 8 at Winterfell will be like what happened doing the battle at Blackwater.  And Tyrion's political acumen will be needed in season 8.  Even though Sansa and Tyrion probably won't have any cool fighting scenes, their roles to me are just as important. 

Just seems to me Cersei's end, or punishment need to be from a person(s) she had personal conflicts with.

Maybe Sansa doesn't die, but gets scarred; I believe in the Roberts curse scenario, also Robert to Sansa " My you're a pretty one, and Arya : and your name is?

So maybe Sansa is scarred, Arya has no name, and Bran is a soldier in the war of the dawn.

Edited May 21, 2018 by GrailKing

[bubble sparkly]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Not sure how Robin figures into it. Maybe he's a hapless redshirt, or maybe he shows up to save the day with the Knights of the Vale.

Then he can spend the rest of his days whining about how he won the Battle with the Dead and everyone should be on their knees thanking him lol.

If the Tyrion / Sansa group has no fighting (or a small 1v1 battle with Brienne v someone) then I think it makes sense for them to film at the actual pit. Big action scenes are fast and spinny etc so its probably easier to green screen a different location in the background because your eye isn’t focused on the scenery. But a talking scene with minimal fighting might look a bit fake with green screen because your eye will be more drawn to the background and there won’t be quick cuts and movement to “hide” anything.

[Eyes High]

30 minutes ago, Sunshinegal said:

 I think Sansa's role in season 8 at Winterfell will be like what happened doing the battle at Blackwater.  And Tyrion's political acumen will be needed in season 8.  Even though Sansa and Tyrion probably won't have any cool fighting scenes, their roles to me are just as important. 

The problem with that is twofold. First, Winterfell is heavily damaged and burned in the third episode, with the principal players thereafter converging on KL before it’s attacked by WWs, so Sansa can’t have a Blackwater role. She’s pretty much along for the ride at that point. Second, the politics portion of the GOT program seems to be concluded, with everyone in survival mode, so Tyrion can’t have much of a political role. (Not to mention that the news that Cersei has reneged on her deal is going to destroy whatever shred of credibility Tyrion still has as a political advisor.)

9 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

If the Tyrion / Sansa group has no fighting (or a small 1v1 battle with Brienne v someone) then I think it makes sense for them to film at the actual pit. Big action scenes are fast and spinny etc so its probably easier to green screen a different location in the background because your eye isn’t focused on the scenery. But a talking scene with minimal fighting might look a bit fake with green screen because your eye will be more drawn to the background and there won’t be quick cuts and movement to “hide” anything.

If they have no fighting in their scene(s), though, why do they have doubles and Maisie, John, Isaac, etc. don’t? 

Edited May 21, 2018 by Eyes High

[screamin]

52 minutes ago, GraceK said:

Can we please stop with this narrative that Sansa is this altruistic all seeing saint? Sansa sent Brienne away because she wasn’t sure whose side Brienne would take of Arya was going to go after Sansa.

Calls for a conclusion of the witness. We don't know why Sansa sent Brienne away, because it was not explained to us. Whether she sent her away because LF told Sansa to appeal to Brienne for protection against Arya and thus set Brienne up for a fight against Arya (a dangerous situation all round, and my preferred reason), or if she sent Brienne away because she thought Brienne would fight against Sansa on  Arya's side because they got along well while sparring that one time, we have no proof, and at this point never will.

I really think Brienne is not going to fall while being the mere bodyguard of any Stark. Her 'fuck loyalty' when speaking of the horrifying impending Apocalypse of the Others IMO means she'll feel that fighting that world-ending menace will take precedence over any vow to be a servant - vows which would be invalidated anyway when the Night King wins and zombifies your sworn master and you. If Brienne falls, I think she'll fall fighting that menace (whether at the command of a Stark or not).

[GrailKing]

26 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

Because at no point ever since they met has Sansa shown Brienne care, friendship or the even the slightest hint of comradeship. Her behaviour attitude haven't at any point suggested she cared about Brienne, so it's safe to conclude that Sansa doesn't care about Brienne.

 I actually like Sansa. She's my favourite Stark. But Brienne is my favourite character full stop and I have a lot of issues with the way Sansa treats Brienne, and what it would mean for Brienne's character if her arc ends up revolving around a girl who barely spares her a thought. It would be a tragedy, all bitter and no sweet.

See I disagree here, 6-2, how they talk, and their convo as Theon is passing, and at castle black Brienne did call out Sansa and she did take pause in her thoughts.

I think at Winterfell, Sansa has more stressful related things to think about, that I don't think, she thinks she needs to hear she's still a child.

[GraceK]

14 minutes ago, screamin said:

 

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

Can we please stop with this narrative that Sansa is this altruistic all seeing saint? Sansa sent Brienne away because she wasn’t sure whose side Brienne would take of Arya was going to go after Sansa.

Calls for a conclusion of the witness. We don't know why Sansa sent Brienne away, because it was not explained to us. Whether she sent her away because LF told Sansa to appeal to Brienne for protection against Arya and thus set Brienne up for a fight against Arya (a dangerous situation all round, and my preferred reason), or if she sent Brienne away because she thought Brienne would fight against Sansa on  Arya's side because they got along well while sparring that one time, we have no proof, and at this point never will.

 

Pretty much. All we really have is what they said on the commentary, which pretty much amounts to the idea that it’s supposed to make Sansa look shady AF. Which is what seems to be their excuse all season ,which is wanting to  leave her motives murky and ambiguous which I personally find irritating as shit cause they never follow it up. They leave her character basically a mystery for the value of a WHAM surprise of her finally killing Littlefinger at the end. they delete a very important scene with her Arya and Bran that would shed light on some stuff just for a cool twist. 

So now it’s up for the fandom to try to make sense of it all, so we either get rabid Sansa fans excusing every shitty thing she does  and making her a political mastermind or die hard Sansa haters making her out to be a horrible person. 

Either way I hope her character is better next season because to be honest I found her the least interesting this last season .

Edited May 21, 2018 by GraceK

[whateverdgaf]

6 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

See I disagree here, 6-2, how they talk, and their convo as Theon is passing, and at castle black Brienne did call out Sansa and she did take pause in her thoughts.

I think at Winterfell, Sansa has more stressful related things to think about, that I don't think, she thinks she needs to hear she's still a child.

6-2, Brienne comforted Sansa. Nothing showing care or comfort directed at Brienne form Sansa. Which is fair enough, considering the situation. But then two seasons past and Sansa shows nothing other than disrespect or apathy for Brienne. And Sansa admitting she was lying to Jon isn't showing care or affection for Brienne. 

And if Sansa cannot treat the woman who saved her life with good grace, then she does need to hear she is still a child. Because an matured adult would at least recognise the benefits that comes from appreciating women like Brienne.

I don't hate Sansa for the way she treats Brienne. But I do hate the way she treats Brienne and even if I don't wish anything bad to happen to Sansa, as a Brienne fan I think Brienne deserves better than to die for or be stuck in the service of a girl who has such little regard for her.

[Happy Harpy]

32 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Then he can spend the rest of his days whining about how he won the Battle with the Dead and everyone should be on their knees thanking him lol.

Ugh. Reminds me of Joffrey's statue, foot crushing the wolf.

23 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The problem with that is twofold. First, Winterfell is heavily damaged and burned in the third episode, with the principal players thereafter converging on KL before it’s attacked by WWs, so Sansa can’t have a Blackwater role. She’s pretty much along for the ride at that point. Second, the politics portion of the GOT program seems to be concluded, with everyone in survival mode, so Tyrion can’t have much of a political role. (Not to mention that the news that Cersei has reneged on her deal is going to destroy whatever shred of credibility Tyrion still has as a political advisor.)

If they have no fighting in their scene(s), though, why do they have doubles and Maisie, John, Isaac, etc. don’t? 

 

I think there might be some politics, if Tyrion feels that Dany let him down to rely on Jon. But it would be as quickly dealt with as the Jon/Sansa conflict last season. Indeed, everyone should be soon in survival mode and I hope those who don't finally end as wight bait.

If there is some dragonfire used like in Daznak's pit, then it makes sense that they have doubles (as someone pointed above, a question of pure safety for actors) and if the others are elsewhere at that moment (Arya) there in a vision (Bran) or on said dragon (Jon) then it makes sense they didn't need one.

Imo, if in S7 instead of leaks we had reports of the Lannisters losing a battle and the Lannisters winning a battle filmed at the same castle, with Unsullied sighting, we'd have been WTFing. The truth was simple, but just like right now, we'd have missed the outline that made sense out of it.

Edited May 21, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[GrailKing]

3 minutes ago, whateverdgaf said:

6-2, Brienne comforted Sansa. Nothing showing care or comfort directed at Brienne form Sansa. Which is fair enough, considering the situation. But then two seasons past and Sansa shows nothing other than disrespect or apathy for Brienne. And Sansa admitting she was lying to Jon isn't showing care or affection for Brienne. 

And if Sansa cannot treat the woman who saved her life with good grace, then she does need to hear she is still a child. Because an matured adult would at least recognise the benefits that comes from appreciating women like Brienne.

I don't hate Sansa for the way she treats Brienne. But I do hate the way she treats Brienne and even if I don't wish anything bad to happen to Sansa, as a Brienne fan I think Brienne deserves better than to die for or be stuck in the service of a girl who has such little regard for her.

I don't think Brienne is dying for Sansa, and I'm pretty sure Sansa cares for Brienne.

AS I stated Brienne is one of my YMB candidates. 

3 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Ugh. Reminds me of Joffrey's statue, foot crushing the wolf.

I think there might be some politics, if Tyrion feels that Dany let him down to rely on Jon. But it would be as quickly dealt with as the Jon/Sansa conflict last season. Indeed, everyone should be soon in survival mode and I hope those who don't finally end as wight bait.

If there is some dragonfire used like in Daznak's pit, then it makes sense that they have doubles (as someone pointed above, a question of pure safety for actors) and if the others are elsewhere at that moment (Arya) there in a vision (Bran) or on said dragon (Jon) then it makes sense they didn't need one.

Imo, if in S7 instead of leaks we had reports of the Lannisters losing a battle and the Lannisters winning a battle filmed at the same castle, with Unsullied sighting, we'd have been WTFing. The truth was simple, but just like right now, we'd have missed the outline that made sense out of it.

Context, Context we need context.

Did I mention context?

[bubble sparkly]

54 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

If they have no fighting in their scene(s), though, why do they have doubles and Maisie, John, Isaac, etc. don’t? 

Do we know for 100% that the others didn’t have doubles? And did Sansa and Tyrion have stand ins or proper stunt doubles? Because if they are just stand ins that may suggest they are just there for normal lighting and scene set up etc. However if they are qualified stunt people then perhaps Sansa and Tyrion do have fighting going on around them.

[Eyes High]

4 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

Do we know for 100% that the others didn’t have doubles? And did Sansa and Tyrion have stand ins or proper stunt doubles? Because if they are just stand ins that may suggest they are just there for normal lighting and scene set up etc. However if they are qualified stunt people then perhaps Sansa and Tyrion do have fighting going on around them.

1. Yes, apparently the only doubles were for Jon, Grey Worm, Sansa, Tyrion, Brienne and Robin. (The Jon/Grey Worm stuff seems to be from a separate scene and supposedly did involve a legit stunt or stunts.) The doubles were hanging out together in Seville so that’s how we know.

2. They were stand-ins, although my understanding is that stand-ins can be used in dangerous scenes to avoid injury to the actors. There were stand-ins for Tyrion, Hizdahr, Missandei, and Dany for the Daznak Pit stuff, but only Hizdahr suffered any injury in that scene.

[Sunshinegal]

6 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

The problem with that is twofold. First, Winterfell is heavily damaged and burned in the third episode, with the principal players thereafter converging on KL before it’s attacked by WWs, so Sansa can’t have a Blackwater role. She’s pretty much along for the ride at that point. Second, the politics portion of the GOT program seems to be concluded, with everyone in survival mode, so Tyrion can’t have much of a political role. (Not to mention that the news that Cersei has reneged on her deal is going to destroy whatever shred of credibility Tyrion still has as a political advisor.)

When I meant Blackwater I meant that Sansa will try to help the people who rely on her and not leave them to their own devices.  She will try to get as many people out of Winterfell before it burns most likely when everybody else is fighting.  As I think that King's Landing also burns down and that Cersei will leave before that happens and leave the population in King's Landing to their own devices.  I think that even though Winterfell burns down that Jon and Co (including Sansa) will try to minimize loss of life.  I think that if King's Landing burns down (most likely because of Checkov's wildfire) that the population in King's Landing will suffer and that Jon and Co couldn't save them.  As I recall during Blackwater, Sansa put her own scared feelings aside to calm the other ladies and Lancel while Cersei threatened her life if they lose and left the scene. 

I know that right now everybody is in survival mode, but I still think that politics will play a role.  And Tyrion was wrong about Cersei.  And Dany might not rely on his advise anymore but I don't think that Tyrion was wrong about everything.  Tyrion was correct that Dany does need a succession plan if she doesn't want the next ruler to reverse her policies.  And I think that Tyrion was right about Dany burning the Tarleys because it is bad PR for her.  She not only killed father and son together (like what Aerys did to Rickard and Brandon Stark) drawing parallels to her "Mad King" father but she used dragon fire to do it.  Randyll was a jerk and both him and Dickon was stupid to not bend the knee after Dany defeated them.  But that decision can haunt her later especially since she wants to rule.  And I know that politics and PR shouldn't be the only consideration and should be balanced with other factors but it can't be dismissed either.

[GrailKing]

All through the seasons we have seen contrast between Cersei, Danerys and Sansa; from forced marriages to how they think about family, how they act in certain situations.

What they think about etc. all of it with political angles as backdrop.

ETA: let's also add the different family dynamics into the mix.

Edited May 21, 2018 by GrailKing

[Leila6]

4 hours ago, GraceK said:

All we really have is what they said on the commentary, which pretty much amounts to the idea that it’s supposed to make Sansa look shady AF. Which is what seems to be their excuse all season ,which is wanting to  leave her motives murky and ambiguous which I personally find irritating as shit cause they never follow it up. They leave her character basically a mystery for the value of a WHAM surprise

[emphasis mine]

 

WORD. I still do not have a firm understanding of Sansa’s motives for not telling Jon about the Knights of the Vale in BoB. I can imagine different possibilities, but I don’t have a clue which is the “correct” one because the writers sacrificed good characterization and narrative logic so they could have their Riders of Rohan moment. S7 was almost as frustrating; the only thing that saved it for me was Turner’s acting. Her face when she realized that Arya would never want to be Lady of Winterfell, and therefore that something was rotten in Denmark, was almost the only thing that made sense in that plot line.

[Eyes High]

15 hours ago, Sunshinegal said:

When I meant Blackwater I meant that Sansa will try to help the people who rely on her and not leave them to their own devices.  She will try to get as many people out of Winterfell before it burns most likely when everybody else is fighting. 

I don't know, I think if it is a night attack that Sansa will be caught off guard along with everyone else and too busy trying to save herself.

Quote

As I think that King's Landing also burns down and that Cersei will leave before that happens and leave the population in King's Landing to their own devices.  

Again, I think Sansa will be in too much trouble to be in much of a position to help other people. She can't play a Blackwater-type grande dame role if she's running for her life from Cersei and/or the AOTD, which the Seville spoilers seem to suggest she is.

Quote

I don't think that Tyrion was wrong about everything.

I don't think that Tyrion was wrong about everything, either, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dany came to that conclusion. Tyrion's main selling point to Dany in S6 according to the writers was not his political expertise but his loyalty, and Dany spent S7 accusing Tyrion of disloyalty, so the news that Cersei has reneged on a deal negotiated in a private meeting with Tyrion will be a huge strike against him in Dany's eyes. She will naturally wonder if this was some sort of plan Cersei and Tyrion cooked up together.

From the (admittedly limited) filming information we have, it seems like Arya and Davos, not Sansa and Tyrion, are Jon's right hands in KL...which, frankly, is entirely sensible, given Arya and Davos' rock-solid loyalty to Jon. 

Quote

And I know that politics and PR shouldn't be the only consideration and should be balanced with other factors but it can't be dismissed either.

Sure, but the only negotiation that we know of in S8 that's possible is between Team Jon/Dany and Cersei (i.e. the Dubrovnik scenes), and Tyrion already struck out when it came to Cersei reaching and honouring an agreement last season, so it makes sense that Jon and Dany wouldn't give him another opportunity to fuck up.

...That's assuming of course that Tyrion and Sansa haven't already been kidnapped by Cersei's goons by the time Jon negotiates with her in person in 8x04.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

58 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

From the (admittedly limited) filming information we have, it seems like Arya and Davos, not Sansa and Tyrion, are Jon's right hands in KL...which, frankly, is entirely sensible, given Arya and Davos' rock-solid loyalty to Jon.

Must.Not.Fangirl. before the fact.

This pre-season is killing me.

[GraceK]

21 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Must.Not.Fangirl. before the fact.

This pre-season is killing me.

I relate ?

[GrailKing]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

From the (admittedly limited) filming information we have, it seems like Arya and Davos, not Sansa and Tyrion, are Jon's right hands in KL...which, frankly, is entirely sensible, given Arya and Davos' rock-solid loyalty to Jon. 

hmmm, we don't have enough facts for that. Sansa so far has been totally behind Jon, but she also learned not to follow blindly.

Sansa know the individuals of KL, but Arya and Davos knows the secrets of KL.

So they all could be of help.

Tyrion my vibes for him tells me he needs to be close to a quandary on which way to go.

[GraceK]

50 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

mmm, we don't have enough facts for that. Sansa so far has been totally behind Jon, but she also learned not to follow blindly.

 

I’m glad someone feels this way cause I certainly haven’t gotten this impression. I feel like from the moment Littlefinger stepped back into her life in the second half of season 6 and she started hiding information from Jon, the impression the writers gave the audience was that Sansa Stark was looking out for Sansa Stark. According to commentary and interviews, she’s resentful Jon doesn’t ask her for military strategy or take her seriously, but when he does she doesn’t tell him anything. We are supposed to applaud her Knights of Rohan moment as this brilliant political move, yet not call her out on the fact that she sacrificed most of Jon’s men to do it and didn’t trust her brother enough to clue him in. She seems perfectly okay with the idea that Rickon and Jon could die for her to get revenge on Ramsey and get Winterfell back and we are supposed to think her ruthlessness is awesome and that Jon is dumb. Then she apologizes , shares a touching moment with Jon who doesn’t hold a grudge for anything, then next season we are again told by the writers that she’s resentful they didn’t make her queen and that’s she still mad Jon doesn’t take her advice. She keeps Littlefinger around all season even though she keeps saying only a fool trusts him, but she tells him all her feelings and keeps having private talks with him about Jon and Arya . She doesn’t wake up to his manipulation until the very last second , which means she was legitimately listening to his poison and bull shit all season long. D and D even praise Sophie Turner for managing to have a tear as she sentencing him to death, because she obviously cared about her pimp and manipulater  and that’s the reason she kept him around. He was her toxic boyfriend she couldn’t really shake until she finally woke up and realized she came a hairs breadth away from killing her sister.

So no, I’m not sure how much Sansa is loyal to Jon, cause it took her almost 2 seasons to finally rejoin her “pack”. Finally we see her in the finale embrace her family. I don’t know what’s gonna happen next season when Jon comes back.  I can’t get a read on Sansa at all because the writers reset her every season according to plot and purposely keep her motives a mystery  ? Then the fandom goes crazy cause it’s up to us to make sense of things. 

Edited May 22, 2018 by GraceK

[WindyNights]

22 hours ago, whateverdgaf said:

Because at no point ever since they met has Sansa shown Brienne care, friendship or the even the slightest hint of comradeship. Her behaviour attitude haven't at any point suggested she cared about Brienne, so it's safe to conclude that Sansa doesn't care about Brienne.

 I actually like Sansa. She's my favourite Stark. But Brienne is my favourite character full stop and I have a lot of issues with the way Sansa treats Brienne, and what it would mean for Brienne's character if her arc ends up revolving around a girl who barely spares her a thought. It would be a tragedy, all bitter and no sweet.

Sansa tries to save Brienne's life from Littlefinger by sending her away. It's just badly acted by Sophie that it comes off as Sansa just being a dick.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

I’m glad someone feels this way cause I certainly haven’t gotten this impression. I feel like from the moment Littlefinger stepped back into her life in the second half of season 6 and she started hiding information from Jon, the impression the writers gave the audience was that Sansa Stark was looking out for Sansa Stark. According to commentary and interviews, she’s resentful Jon doesn’t ask her for military strategy or take her seriously, but when he does she doesn’t tell him anything. We are supposed to applaud her Knights of Rohan moment as this brilliant political move, yet not call her out on the fact that she sacrificed most of Jon’s men to do it and didn’t trust her brother enough to clue him in. She seems perfectly okay with the idea that Rickon and Jon could die for her to get revenge on Ramsey and get Winterfell back and we are supposed to think her ruthlessness is awesome and that Jon is dumb. Then she apologizes , shares a touching moment with Jon who doesn’t hold a grudge for anything, then next season we are again told by the writers that she’s resentful they didn’t make her queen and that’s she still mad Jon doesn’t take her advice. She keeps Littlefinger around all season even though she keeps saying only a fool trusts him, but she tells him all her feelings and keeps having private talks with him about Jon and Arya . She doesn’t wake up to his manipulation until the very last second , which means she was legitimately listening to his poison and bull shit all season long. D and D even praise Sophie Turner for managing to have a tear as she sentencing him to death, because she obviously cared about her pimp and manipulater  and that’s the reason she kept him around. He was her toxic boyfriend she couldn’t really shake until she finally woke up and realized she came a hairs breadth away from killing her sister.

So no, I’m not sure how much Sansa is loyal to Jon, cause it took her almost 2 seasons to finally rejoin her “pack”. Finally we see her in the finale embrace her family. I don’t know what’s gonna happen next season when Jon comes back.  I can’t get a read on Sansa at all because the writers reset her every season according to plot and purposely keep her motives a mystery  ? Then the fandom goes crazy cause it’s up to us to make sense of things. 

Unless you know for a fact, that after sending the letter off, and she knew for a fact that LF was going to be there for those weeks / months of them traveling, and he managed to get a letter to her in the wolfswood as they traveled to WF field ~400 miles your claims are empty.

Sansa never asked him to ask her for military advice, she point blank said she knows nothing about fighting; she tried to get him to understand how Ramsey's mind works, and knew they needed more men and fighting with "honor" doesn't work with the likes of Ramsey. Sansa was point blank on with Ramsey taking Jon out of his waiting game, not only did Sansa tell him whatever Ramsey was cooking don't fall for it, and Davos point blank told Jon, it's important that we hold position let them charge us. Sansa was pretty sure that Rickon was either already dead, or they find him dead in WF, if they did win after the parley . Sansa was being truthful, she had no other answers for him since as far as any of us know LF never replied to her.

Jon didn't listen to her about Ramsey, Jon didn't listen to Davos or himself, and Jon did not have leverage, when faced with his kobiyashi maru his plan, his soldiers or love for family, family won out, but it was a high cost.

Sansa sacrificed none of those guys, even if she told Jon she asked for the Eyrie's army, she had no answers for him regarding W,W,W& W. and Ramsey wasn't going to drag it out, he had a weapon to use against Jon, and he pulled the string.

Add that LF whole plan was decimation of two sides before he showed up, Jon was screwed.

I can just imagine how much hate Sansa would get, if she was with Jon, and she held him back.

Point is Sansa knows the head of Cersei, Lf, and other people, she's been with, and that includes Jon " you need to be smarter then father, you need to be smarter then Robb "

[WindyNights]

16 hours ago, Leila6 said:

[emphasis mine]

 

WORD. I still do not have a firm understanding of Sansa’s motives for not telling Jon about the Knights of the Vale in BoB. I can imagine different possibilities, but I don’t have a clue which is the “correct” one because the writers sacrificed good characterization and narrative logic so they could have their Riders of Rohan moment. S7 was almost as frustrating; the only thing that saved it for me was Turner’s acting. Her face when she realized that Arya would never want to be Lady of Winterfell, and therefore that something was rotten in Denmark, was almost the only thing that made sense in that plot line.

Their is no real motive. Sansa didn't tell Jon to make the Knights of the Vale coming to rescue more dramatic. That's pretty much what Sophie said and Benioff and Weiss were right next to her and didn't disagree.

[GrailKing]

7 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Sansa tries to save Brienne's life from Littlefinger by sending her away. It's just badly acted by Sophie that it comes off as Sansa just being a dick.

Badly acted? ( more on the writers), it seems as a natural thing for a grown woman, to want to be treated as a grown up, Sansa has a 1000 and 1 things to think about, getting blow back ( no matter how well intended ) is probably not what she wanted to hear at that moment; she knows the danger she has around her neck, and I think she has confidence in her people ( and perhaps Arya ).

Edited May 22, 2018 by GrailKing

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

This isn't the place to debate Sansa's motives/plots/actions from previous seasons. Stop now. We have asked repeatedly for off topic Sansa discussion to be taken to the appropriate thread. Warnings will be next.

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

hmmm, we don't have enough facts for that.

We know that Kit, Maisie and Liam were filming KL scenes in Belfast without Peter or Sophie, and that Kit and Maisie have been filming together for months while Sophie was off doing other things. It's not 100% definitive, but it is strongly suggestive. Even the timeline for the KL scenes shot in Seville suggest that Sophie was filming with Peter but not Kit.

Quote

 

Sansa know the individuals of KL, but Arya and Davos knows the secrets of KL.

 

Apart from Cersei, all of "the individuals of KL" Sansa knows have either defected to Team Jon/Dany (Tyrion, Sandor, etc.) or died, so her insight really isn't of much use, and Jaime and Tyrion know Cersei far better than Sansa ever will in any event.

[GrailKing]

2 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

We know that Kit, Maisie and Liam were filming KL scenes in Belfast without Peter or Sophie, and that Kit and Maisie have been filming together for months while Sophie was off doing other things. It's not 100% definitive, but it is strongly suggestive. Even the timeline for the KL scenes shot in Seville suggest that Sophie was filming with Peter but not Kit.

Apart from Cersei, all of "the individuals of KL" Sansa knows have either defected to Team Jon/Dany (Tyrion, Sandor, etc.) or died, so her insight really isn't of much use, and Jaime and Tyrion know Cersei far better than Sansa ever will in any event.

Doesn't mean she won't be useful, is all I'm pointing out.

ETA : I also think between her and Tyrion, she be harder to sway with Cersei's  child play.

Edited May 22, 2018 by GrailKing

[Eyes High]

...Speaking of the KL scenes filmed in Seville, though, I'm leaning back towards my theory that the Seville day shoots are denouement stuff. I reread /BoatsexBaby's Seville timeline/inside information megapost from /Freefolk (linked upthread), and I noticed that the post never actually says that the only thing filmed in KL was battle scenes.

The megapost also says that the night shoots could be continuations of the Magheramorne Quarry KL battle filming, which was done at night. Photos snapped of Magheramorne Quarry filming--Melisandre on a horse, Jaime in Brienne's arms--are all from night shoots. A Jon/Grey Worm battle scene also makes a lot of sense for a night shoot.

So assuming there were night shoots in Seville, which isn't confirmed, we have two sets of scenes:

1. Late season/finale KL battle stuff taking place at night and mostly filmed in Northern Ireland with extensive green screen involving (according to /BoatsexBaby) Jon, Dany, Arya, Melisandre, Jaime, Brienne, and Bran, who have already filmed KL battle stuff in Northern Ireland, and

2. Day stuff involving Brienne, Tyrion, Sansa and Robin (requiring stand-ins/doubles) and possible separate scenes involving Arya, Sam, Davos, and Gendry, with Bran in the mix somewhere. There may be other characters in the mix as well for the day shoots, but not Jon or Jaime (since the Seville shooting timeline rules that out).

So there are several main reasons I think the day Seville shoots may be denouement material, some of which I've previously mentioned:

1. Seville's too hot for the actors involved to be wearing winter costumes during the day, and the production would have planned this accordingly, meaning that whatever the actors are wearing as costumes are summer-appropriate.

2. Sophie and Peter haven't filmed KL battle material in Belfast, and Sansa and Tyrion were left off the list of characters /BoatsexBaby could confirm were involved in the KL battle due to scenes shot in Belfast.

3. If the KL battle scenes all take place at night, what on earth were they filming during the day?

4. If the Seville scenes were just battle material, why go to such lengths to conceal the presence of actors, including having actors show up who aren't shooting scenes (Lena, Conleth, etc.), and having other actors present who aren't staying at the main hotel (Gemma, Tobias, Iain, etc.)?

5. On a meta level, it would make sense for the big battle against the AOTD to take place at night, with the denouement scenes shot during the day.

...None of this explains why stand-ins would be required for Brienne, Sansa, Tyrion, and Robin if there weren't some action involved (and Jon and Grey Worm definitely needed stand-ins for a stunt), of course, but the whole thing strikes me as odd.

ETA: Emilia Clarke did a recent interview saying she was three quarters of the way through filming, so she definitely has more to film.

I watched a long interview with NCW where he said that Season 8 would have even more callbacks to earlier seasons than Season 7.

Edited May 22, 2018 by Eyes High

[Happy Harpy]

The more I think about it, the more I think that whenever possible, they're going to shoot denouement material behind closed doors in an indoor set. Weddings, coronations or funeral don't need to be on location so imo they won't take the risk to film spoilerific scenes outside if they can avoid it.

[bubble sparkly]

Yeah I agree that a denouement seems more likely to be filmed in studio to avoid paparazzi drones etc. I could maybe see them having something at the dragon pit if Dany and Jon were there and it was a callback to Targ history, but since they weren’t filming it makes no sense the others would congregate there for the big finale.

If D&D really want to ensure the ending is a secret, they would be crazy to film a wedding or coronation etc outdoors.

[screamin]

With the filming implying that Sansa and Tyrion are in multiple scenes together, what I'm wondering is whether Sansa and Tyrion will be taken prisoner by the Golden Company, and the writers resort to the old trope of having them bond during their imprisonment so they end up together at the end - seems a bit trite, to me.

[GrailKing]

Take this with salt ( or your favorite condiment ) someone post on FF, that they are keeping a tight grip on Sansa's and Danerys story line, and they each filmed more then we know.

[SeanC]

On 5/21/2018 at 8:46 AM, Eyes High said:

If the Dragonpit scene is KL battle stuff, it sounds like Tyrion, Sansa, Robin and Brienne are cornered by wights. The Knights of the Vale supposedly filmed, though, so maybe they get bailed out. Or maybe Robin pulls a Neville Longbottom and comes through in the clutch.

If they're surrounded in the Dragon Pit, based on my extensive knowledge of cinema cliches I'm guessing deus ex dragon.

Some guy who is touring Northern Ireland tweeted that he met Sophie and Maisie in Belfast last Friday at the cinema.  If they were there, they couldn't have been there long, based on subsequent social media posts.

[Wouter]

22 hours ago, Eyes High said:

1. Yes, apparently the only doubles were for Jon, Grey Worm, Sansa, Tyrion, Brienne and Robin. (The Jon/Grey Worm stuff seems to be from a separate scene and supposedly did involve a legit stunt or stunts.) The doubles were hanging out together in Seville so that’s how we know.

2. They were stand-ins, although my understanding is that stand-ins can be used in dangerous scenes to avoid injury to the actors. There were stand-ins for Tyrion, Hizdahr, Missandei, and Dany for the Daznak Pit stuff, but only Hizdahr suffered any injury in that scene.

The original reports talked about stand-ins, rather than stunt people (IIRC WOTW was among those explicitly calling them stand-ins, used for mundane preparation of a shoot so the actor/actress doesn't have to do that part). It's still very possible there was no action scene for Tyrion and Sansa, as neither the setting (historic Italica site) nor the directors (D&D) point toward action.

Even if there would be action involved, it could be the arrival of a dragon rather than a major swordfight or something similar.

5 minutes ago, screamin said:

With the filming implying that Sansa and Tyrion are in multiple scenes together, what I'm wondering is whether Sansa and Tyrion will be taken prisoner by the Golden Company, and the writers resort to the old trope of having them bond during their imprisonment so they end up together at the end - seems a bit trite, to me.

This seems very possible, if it is indeed the Golden Company that had attacked Winterfell previously. I still find that hard to swallow, but I suppose the Cersei/Euron plotline has to come into play and Sansa and Tyrion probably would be involved in some way.