Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[GraceK]

25 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

I don't buy that Jon is willing kneeling to Cersei either. Even if he wasn't already pledged to Dany, he would never trust Cersei after she deceived them about sending what is left of the Lannister army. If he is knelling, he must be being forced or coerced to by circumstances. If Cersei does have Sansa or any of his or Dany's other people, I could see Jon doing what it takes to free them.

That’s depressing to think about . :( I don’t even want to consider what Cersei has over his head to make him bend the knee. I’m really sick of the suffering of the good guys lol, I’m ready for them to be victorious. But that’s never been what this show is about apparently, every decent person seems to suffer horrifically lol

[MarySNJ]

12 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Oh! I haven't seen it yet. And I loved Rogue One.

I loved them both, and slightly obsessed with The Last Jedi. I’ve seen it 7 times. 

 

In other news, I’m actually feeling a little depressed at the thought that Jon may bend the knee to Cersei. I really hope there’s another explanation for it.

[Wouter]

17 hours ago, domina89 said:

But Sansa is the one that got away.  She is the one that made Cersei (in her mind) look like a fool.  Cersei doesn't forgive these things.  Her tendency to seek revenge above all logic is what makes her dangerous.  She's even more dangerous now that Jaime has abandoned her.  I could see her using Sansa as an ace up her sleeve to ensure her own survival, especially if things start going south for her.  Cersei is great at looking out for number one, if nothing else.

Taking Sansa (or other non-combatants in the northern and/or Targaryen camps) as a hostage if the opportunity presents itself makes sense, but I don't think Cersei feels she was made a fool off, either in book or show. In the books, she wants to torture Sansa to death but that's because she is convinced she was part of the poisoning of Joffrey. In the show, she knows this is not the case. If anyone was made to look a fool by Sansa's escape, book-wise I think it was actually Tyrion (who didn't see it coming, and who left alone as the accused for Joffrey) and for the rest it was the Kings's Guard, Lannister guards and Goldcloaks who failed to guard her properly. 

17 hours ago, screamin said:

I'd guess she might send the Golden Company on a flying raid on WF to get Sansa as a hostage bargaining chip. They could approach from the sea most of the way and march quickly inland while Jon is elsewhere fighting the NK, the way Theon did way back when - and then take hostages, burn WF and its food reserves, and flee to their ships the way Theon SHOULD have done way back then.  Voila - in one stroke Cersei has doomed Jon's kingdom and army to starvation AND has a hostage to hold over his head to force more favorable terms.

The problem with this scenario: bar fleeing back to the ships, it's exactly what Theon and group did. With Winterfell also getting burned (partially or completely), it would start to look like a complete re-run of A Clash of kings. 

17 hours ago, screamin said:

I mean, these are the guys who handwaved the fall of Highgarden as, "Yeah, the richest region in the kingdom fell to the decimated Lannister army immediately. Just go with it."

True, but they did at least point out that the Tyrell's most powerful bannerman (on the show at least, where such things get simplified) switched sides, with the implication that some others (the Tarly's own bannermen, if no one else) did likewise. They did have that scene where Cersei was attempting to turn Reach lords against the Tyrells, and obviously she met with at least decent success.

15 hours ago, anamika said:

Why would Brienne be at the wall? She is sworn to protect the Stark girls first and foremost. If Sansa and Arya are at WF, she will be there.

[...]

The more I see that lady there laughing, the more I feel like these guys are just playing with us. Those two soldiers (one is Cersei's stand in? Mannequins?) near the window, them filming exactly in front of that window, Benioff and all those folks with the cameras laughing...

 

Agreed on both counts. We don't know for sure where Brienne will be, but it will probably be either with the main Jon/Dany army (which would also be protecting the girls as this battle has to be won anyway) or directly with the Stark girls.

 

Allthough I realise that HBO cannot spend large amounts of money to film fake scenes, if they were filming with Cersei and Jon anyway (which is a spoiler in itself, but without context it doesn't say much) they could easily add the "kneeling" scene for the eye of the spying cameras. They know how that works and it would cost them peanuts (some minutes of the time of two actors and mininal crew; they don't actually have to prep beyond noticing where the spy cameras are). 

15 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

Maybe Sansa and the surviving civilians (after the fall of Winterfell) are ambushed in the Riverlands.Cercei still has troops there. Jon and most of the soldiers are trying to buy them some time while the Night King is moving South.

 

This seems a more likely scenario to me. If the NK takes/destroys WF but a lot of survivors manage to flee (through a secret tunnel?), then they could well end up running into Cersei's forces at some point. Likewise if they would be evacuated on purpose, before the NK could attack. 

14 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

As you said, at least those blurry pics give us a reason to speculate, shippers to fight, bloggers to create crazy theories, etc.

Kidnapped Sansa is a not so crazy theory, if you ask me...Some readers think she will be kidnapped in the Vale (book!Sansa)

 

The problem is that timing doesn't match, as a succesful kidnap by the Mad Mouse would be way before an invasion by the Others, unless he really bides his time for very long (and would Cersei still be such a factor in the books by then?). Moreover, a succesful kidnap would be extremely difficult to pull off and without significant support (he'd need accomplices and a boat, at least) probably impossible. We don't even know if he is still planning to collect the reward, when staying in LF's service may be a safer way to decent profit. About the only way I could see this go through if is the Mad Mouse is (still) in league with Varys, and thus connected to (f)Aegon.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Wouter

[whateverdgaf]

20 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Agreed on both counts. We don't know for sure where Brienne will be, but it will probably be either with the main Jon/Dany army (which would also be protecting the girls as this battle has to be won anyway) or directly with the Stark girls.

Considering the last two seasons reasons have been contrived to get Brienne reuinted with Jaime and away from the Stark girls as a result,  I think season 8 Brienne wil mostly be where Jaime is. The fact Nik and Gwen have both been sighted in Belfast the same time  quite a lot supports this. 

[Wouter]

1 hour ago, whateverdgaf said:

Considering the last two seasons reasons have been contrived to get Brienne reuinted with Jaime and away from the Stark girls as a result,  I think season 8 Brienne wil mostly be where Jaime is. The fact Nik and Gwen have both been sighted in Belfast the same time  quite a lot supports this. 

Could be. Jaime will probably be in the thick of the fighting, taking up Jon's offer to fight with them.

[SeanC]

19 hours ago, domina89 said:

But Sansa is the one that got away.  She is the one that made Cersei (in her mind) look like a fool.  Cersei doesn't forgive these things. 

While you could argue that's a plausible sentiment for Cersei to have, there isn't any sign that she actually has it, that I've seen.  She's not mentioned Sansa more than cursorily since Season 4.

[screamin]

2 hours ago, Wouter said:

Taking Sansa (or other non-combatants in the northern and/or Targaryen camps) as a hostage if the opportunity presents itself makes sense, but I don't think Cersei feels she was made a fool off, either in book or show. In the books, she wants to torture Sansa to death but that's because she is convinced she was part of the poisoning of Joffrey. In the show, she knows this is not the case.

 

We were shown in the show and in the books that Cersei took a positive pleasure in torturing Sansa psychologically while she had her under her thumb in KL, fully convinced she had Sansa's measure as a pliable, broken idiot who was exactly what she seemed. Sansa DID surprise her by her flight...and goddamnit, Sansa was a Lannister asset and had no business having a mind and will of her own! But I agree if she does take Sansa it will be likely because of her value as a hostage.

Quote

The problem with this scenario: bar fleeing back to the ships, it's exactly what Theon and group did. With Winterfell also getting burned (partially or completely), it would start to look like a complete re-run of A Clash of kings. 

Same strategy - but successful this time for the sacker of Winterfell, not a Pyrrhic victory like Theon's, who took WF and stupidly tried to hold it instead of burning it and leaving with his hostages. And the circumstances are different - it's winter, Ramsey's dead, the Night King's the worse threat now, and WF burning with the winter stores inside is a far worse outcome for the North than the last fall. Yes, the strategy is the same, but it will LOOK different, and that will likely be enough for the showrunners.

I mean, the showrunners aren't really that careful about making things plausible or non-repetitive. (Remind me, just what was poor Roz's story of repeated degradation, torture, and final sadistic murder FOR, anyway?) This, for example:

Quote

True, but they did at least point out that the Tyrell's most powerful bannerman (on the show at least, where such things get simplified) switched sides, with the implication that some others (the Tarly's own bannermen, if no one else) did likewise. They did have that scene where Cersei was attempting to turn Reach lords against the Tyrells, and obviously she met with at least decent success.

In the books, it's quite possible that Tarly could be bribed with the prospect of getting Highgarden for himself - there are still Tyrell heirs left alive in the books, and he'd have no prospect of getting it for himself otherwise. On the show, this made no flippin' sense. The Queen of Thorns was the last Tyrell left alive, and as her most powerful bannerman he could have taken possession of Highgarden on her death without betraying her in life. And having acted with dishonor against his liege lord, it makes even LESS sense that he would later stupidly stand on his honor and sacrifice his own life and his son's life to it when his honorable vow to his liege meant shit to him a few episodes earlier. But hey! Burning him with dragonfire looked great, cinematically! And so will burning Winterfell! Who cares about the plot weaknesses involved? I expect the showrunners won't, anyway.

Quote

Agreed on both counts. We don't know for sure where Brienne will be, but it will probably be either with the main Jon/Dany army (which would also be protecting the girls as this battle has to be won anyway) or directly with the Stark girls.

I agree that Brienne will probably end up fighting at Jon's side against the Night King in the North. That will likely seem to her like the best place for her to help protect the Stark girls (after all, if she stands idly by bodyguarding while Jon is defeated, she won't be able to do much to protect the girls by herself when the NK comes knocking at WF's doors...)

Edited February 9, 2018 by screamin

[GrailKing]

Couple of Translation:

can someone please sum up what he is saying in English? I am dying to know what Friki thinks is happening in this scene!

14 minutes ago
 basically that it could be Kings's Landing, the Red Keep or Whiteharbor, that is definitely ep 4 and that it may not actually be a scene because the camara shown it's usually used for shooting clips for behind the scenes. Also that the project name for GOT this season may be Faith of Angels, like last season was The Big Tree.
1

11 minutes ago
thank you :)

10 minutes ago (edited)
He says that Cercei & Jon reunion in the white tower at the red keep, some people’s theory says their reunion is because Jon is gonna bend the knee before Cercei, the man in black apparently is Harry Strickland the leader of the golden company, the main question is why is Jon in king’s landing, the scenes they are filming now & what friki is talking about are for the 3rd or 4th episode, hope it helped u
 

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, GrailKing said:

10 minutes ago (edited)
He says that Cercei & Jon reunion in the white tower at the red keep, some people’s theory says their reunion is because Jon is gonna bend the knee before Cercei, the man in black apparently is Harry Strickland the leader of the golden company, the main question is why is Jon in king’s landing, the scenes they are filming now & what friki is talking about are for the 3rd or 4th episode, hope it helped u
 

We know that isn't true because of the filming information for the actor playing Strickland.

[WindyNights]

9 hours ago, GraceK said:

That’s depressing to think about . :( I don’t even want to consider what Cersei has over his head to make him bend the knee. I’m really sick of the suffering of the good guys lol, I’m ready for them to be victorious. But that’s never been what this show is about apparently, every decent person seems to suffer horrifically lol

 

I mean: 

GRRM: There are some people who read and want to believe in a world where the good guys win and the bad guys lose, and at the end they live happily ever after. That's not the kind of fiction that I write. Tolkien was not that. The scouring of the Shire proved that. Frodo's sadness – that was a bittersweet ending, which to my mind was far more powerful than the ending of Star Wars, where all the happy Ewoks are jumping around, and the ghosts of all the dead people appear, waving happily [laughs].

[GrailKing]

On 10/02/2018 at 2:01 AM, SeanC said:

We know that isn't true because of the filming information for the actor playing Strickland.

I just saw and post, looked for translation and found two people so I pasted their translation, I think it's too early for FD to say anything for real.

 

I just had a sad thought; What if Sansa's needle contains tears of Lys and it's for herself in case she's taken prisoner ?

She did say to Jon if Ramsey wins she's not going back, maybe it's the same for Cersei, sad part would be Arya was or is close to saving her.

Doesn't seem proper way for her to go out.

[OhOkayWhat]

On 09/02/2018 at 5:46 PM, MarySNJ said:

I loved them both, and slightly obsessed with The Last Jedi. I’ve seen it 7 times. 

I'm a fan of sci-fi movies, I think I'll give it a chance. 

 

On 09/02/2018 at 10:44 PM, screamin said:

In the books, it's quite possible that Tarly could be bribed with the prospect of getting Highgarden for himself - there are still Tyrell heirs left alive in the books, and he'd have no prospect of getting it for himself otherwise. On the show, this made no flippin' sense.

Disagree. Two words: racism/xenophobia.

 

On 09/02/2018 at 8:06 PM, Wouter said:

The problem is that timing doesn't match,....

Timing, yes, that's a very good point.

[MarySNJ]

8 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

I'm a fan of sci-fi movies, I think I'll give it a chance. 

I think it’s more of a space fantasy or fairy tale but obviously has sci-fi elements to it. 

 

16 hours ago, SeanC said:

While you could argue that's a plausible sentiment for Cersei to have, there isn't any sign that she actually has it, that I've seen.  She's not mentioned Sansa more than cursorily since Season 4.

Also, I can’t of any reason now why Cersei would waste resources trying to kill Sansa. She knows it was Olenna who poisoned Joffrey, not Tyrion and Sansa. Apart from Sansa being Lady of Winterfell in a rebellion against her rule, and that’s more on Jon who has declared King, I doubt Cersei considers Sansa a major player. 

[domina89]

4 hours ago, MarySNJ said:

Also, I can’t of any reason now why Cersei would waste resources trying to kill Sansa. She knows it was Olenna who poisoned Joffrey, not Tyrion and Sansa. Apart from Sansa being Lady of Winterfell in a rebellion against her rule, and that’s more on Jon who has declared King, I doubt Cersei considers Sansa a major player. 

Unless you want to consider the YMBQ prophecy.  Cersei may believe Margaery fulfilled that prophecy, but if she is hedging all her bets, then that makes Daenerys (definitely) and Sansa (possibly) also a threat to Cersei.  

[MarySNJ]

19 hours ago, domina89 said:

Unless you want to consider the YMBQ prophecy.  Cersei may believe Margaery fulfilled that prophecy, but if she is hedging all her bets, then that makes Daenerys (definitely) and Sansa (possibly) also a threat to Cersei.  

Does the YMBQ prophesy exist in the TV show canon? If I recall correctly, that it was omitted from the flashback scene of young Cersei and the Maegi. 

[SeanC]

3 minutes ago, MarySNJ said:

Does the YMBQ prophesy exist in the TV show canon? If I recall correctly, that it was omitted from the flashback scene of young Cersei and the Maegi. 

No, it was the valonqar that was omitted from TV.

[Wouter]

19 hours ago, domina89 said:

Unless you want to consider the YMBQ prophecy.  Cersei may believe Margaery fulfilled that prophecy, but if she is hedging all her bets, then that makes Daenerys (definitely) and Sansa (possibly) also a threat to Cersei.  

Cersei tends to discount Sansa as a threat on that front though, at least after she saw Joffrey had her completely under control. And after Joffrey died and Sansa escaped, her attention was switched to first Margaery and now Dany. While Sansa is still an outside bet, I doubt Cersei would view this as a priority now when Dany looks to be the clear and present danger right in front of her.

[Eyes High]

18 minutes ago, Wouter said:

Cersei tends to discount Sansa as a threat on that front though, at least after she saw Joffrey had her completely under control. And after Joffrey died and Sansa escaped, her attention was switched to first Margaery and now Dany. While Sansa is still an outside bet, I doubt Cersei would view this as a priority now when Dany looks to be the clear and present danger right in front of her.

Not to mention that Cersei will probably have her miscarriage just as she gets the news that Dany's been knocked up by the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne.

/Freefolk found an Instagram post by a GOT assistant director discussing getting home from work at 4:30 in the morning. He hashtagged it #nightshoots, #gameofthrones, and #week3of11, which accords with what the other GOT crew member said on Instagram a while ago about there being three months' worth of night shoots.

As a reference point, the battle portion of the BOTB took about a month to film. The loot train attack from 7x04 took three weeks (I think). So whatever's being filmed at the Moneyglass (Winterfell exterior) set, it's big.

[LadyLexiBeauty]

On 2/8/2018 at 11:14 PM, WindyNights said:

 

it seems that Jon is kneeling to Cersei

Hey group. I just finished the season yesterday and dying to find what will happen in season 8. 2019 is TOO far for me so I enjoy reading everyone's perspectives. Please excuse me if I happen to repeat anything, anyone has already said. I tried to read as many posts as I could in this forum alone but there's over 25 pages!!!

 

Windynights: maybe in this scene Jon is kneeling to deceive Cersei. Many characters have criticized Jon for not being able to lie to his enemies, even if it would be beneficial to his cause.  She previously asked him to kneel and he didn't. 

[GraceK]

26 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

Not to mention that Cersei will probably have her miscarriage just as she gets the news that Dany's been knocked up by the legitimate heir to the Iron Throne.

/Freefolk found an Instagram post by a GOT assistant director discussing getting home from work at 4:30 in the morning. He hashtagged it #nightshoots, #gameofthrones, and #week3of11, which accords with what the other GOT crew member said on Instagram a while ago about there being three months' worth of night shoots.

As a reference point, the battle portion of the BOTB took about a month to film. The loot train attack from 7x04 took three weeks (I think). So whatever's being filmed at the Moneyglass (Winterfell exterior) set, it's big.

http://watchersonthewall.com/massive-new-towers-at-titanic-studios-set/#more-159231

[Sunshinegal]

Cersei hates a lot of people.  She can go after Sansa and Dany both.  If she finds out that Arya is alive she can go after her too.  I don't think she forgot about the incident at the Trident where Arya and Nymeria fought Joffrey.  She will probably go after Jon because he is Lyanna's and Rhaegar's son or Gendry because he is Robert's son. She would want to eliminate all threats, real or imagined.  Cersei would rather burn everything down then let her enemies win. 

I just think she would want to get rid of people who she hates especially now that she has power.  They are all in one place, the North.  She would want to go after them because she could.

[domina89]

1 hour ago, Sunshinegal said:

I just think she would want to get rid of people who she hates especially now that she has power.  They are all in one place, the North.  She would want to go after them because she could.

I agree.  She counts Sansa among her enemies in her speech to Jaime in the map room, so she has not forgotten about her.  By the time season 8 begins, she will most likely know that Sansa has a position of power in the North, with the armies of the North and the Vale behind her (possibly the Riverlands, too, now that the Freys are dealt with) and that she executed Littlefinger.  I can't see her just ignoring her and their history at this point in the game.  Cersei doesn't like to allow her enemies to live.  She had Jaime poison Olenna and that was before she even knew about Joffrey.  Cersei has a list just as much as Arya does, imo.

[GrailKing]

Someone from Reddit compiled all ( or most )leaks so far.

Tagged JIC

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RpvF1XINWNcXcKGHfzvSdwB9J9XZ6KG3ul1YJWZUpNk/edit#gid=0 

[Eyes High]

13 hours ago, GraceK said:

http://watchersonthewall.com/massive-new-towers-at-titanic-studios-set/#more-159231

It occurs to me that this 11-week night shoot streak includes both the Winterfell battle and whatever's going to be filmed at the KL set in Belfast, since the production designer mentioned those "big things" being filmed in March. If last week was the third week of eleven weeks of night shoots, then the night filming should run through the first week of April. So assuming no KL filming before March 1st, and assuming no filming overlap between the Winterfell and KL set filming (since I assume Miguel's responsible for both), it looks like about six weeks for Winterfell, five weeks for KL, at least in terms of night shoots.

If the two big set pieces take place at night, it seems like S8 will be taking this Long Night business literally.

In addition to Rory McCann, both Kristofer Hivju (Tormund) and Joe Dempsie (Gendry) were both spotted in Belfast this past week.

Sophie was spotted in London on Friday.

[Happy Harpy]

Lots of Gendry possible filming makes a woman happy. Providing he doesn't die, but a woman hopes House Baratheon (by blood) will represent in the end. 

[Eyes High]

More confirmation from Maisie of the three months' worth of night shoots:

Quote

“I am currently on my way to a night shoot, which is week 4 of 12 weeks of night shoots. It’s just huge. The task is huge. But, there’s no better way to leave the show, to be honest.”

[WearyTraveler]

3 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

More confirmation from Maisie of the three months' worth of night shoots:

Regarding this: "...there’s no better way to leave the show..."

Speculation that Arya dies starting in 3, 2, 1.....

(In my personal opinion, she won't die either in the books or the show)

[Eyes High]

6 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

Regarding this: "...there’s no better way to leave the show..."

Speculation that Arya dies starting in 3, 2, 1.....

(In my personal opinion, she won't die either in the books or the show)

Heh, totally missed that.

I don't think Arya dies, either, but it wouldn't be the first time Maisie Williams accidentally let something slip: spoiling that the Waif died, revealing that the final season will be aired in April 2019 (she later retracted the latter, but does anyone seriously believe her denial?).

[GrailKing]

Maisie interview, excerpt.

 

http://nerd-utopia.tumblr.com/image/170734594667

 

“Yesterday I took a stunt class for the new season of GOT.
It’s sword work and combat fighting.
The [trainers] have all these big pads on,
so you’re allowed to just go crazy.”

Edited February 14, 2018 by GrailKing

[anamika]

Looks like Arya is in the thick of things at the Winterfell battle. She's been filming almost constantly since they began and she's heavily involved in the 12 week nightshoot. Most of the other actors seem to be flitting in and out of Belfast - Brienne, Hound, Jaime, Gendry, Jorah, Tormund -  maybe they all have some fighting scenes during the battle.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Looks like Arya is in the thick of things at the Winterfell battle. She's been filming almost constantly since they began and she's heavily involved in the 12 week nightshoot. Most of the other actors seem to be flitting in and out of Belfast - Brienne, Hound, Jaime, Gendry, Jorah, Tormund -  maybe they all have some fighting scenes during the battle.

My understanding is week 4, not necessarily  all 12 weeks, and she's training not yet filming.

[Eyes High]

13 hours ago, anamika said:

Looks like Arya is in the thick of things at the Winterfell battle. She's been filming almost constantly since they began and she's heavily involved in the 12 week nightshoot. Most of the other actors seem to be flitting in and out of Belfast - Brienne, Hound, Jaime, Gendry, Jorah, Tormund -  maybe they all have some fighting scenes during the battle.

That sounds about right. The bigger question mark is Tyrion, since Peter hasn't been spotted that much in Belfast, either.  

NCW and Gwendoline Christie were filming together in Belfast for one week in January. I can't lie, the idea of Jaime and Brienne fighting side by side is pretty exciting. (Ditto for the Hound and Arya fighting together.)

Maisie doing combat training doesn't surprise me. I'd be shocked if she weren't involved in battle scenes, either of the human or the WW variety (now that she has a Valyrian steel weapon).

Kit was spotted in Belfast again. Seems like whatever goes down during this Winterfell battle, Jon and Arya are front and centre.

If the filming of this Winterfell battle is what's taking up so much time, it makes sense that Emilia and Sophie wouldn't be present, since neither Sansa nor Dany would be involved in the fighting, and they could bang out the relevant interior scenes at Paint Hall without needing too much time. (Dany might be on Drogon, but that would be filmed on the greenscreen rig they use for Emilia's Drogon flying scenes.) It also seems unlikely that Tyrion would be directly involved in the fighting, which might explain Peter's relative absence from Belfast over the past two months. 

Edited February 15, 2018 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/7xrzgi/update_on_the_leak_compilation_i_think_you_guys/

[screamin]

The spoiler about Tyrion betraying Dany, getting WF burned to the ground, handing over Sansa to Cersei and then being shocked that Cersei kills her smells of bullshit. What the hell else would he expect Cersei to do with her, once he's made Cersei's victory seem almost certain by assuring Jon's army and entire realm will starve even if he beats the Night King? And he does this because he 'wants to be on the winning side'? Makes no flippin' sense, AND betrays Jaime, who seems to have made up his mind to honorably fight the Night King.

[GraceK]

7 hours ago, screamin said:

The spoiler about Tyrion betraying Dany, getting WF burned to the ground, handing over Sansa to Cersei and then being shocked that Cersei kills her smells of bullshit. What the hell else would he expect Cersei to do with her, once he's made Cersei's victory seem almost certain by assuring Jon's army and entire realm will starve even if he beats the Night King? And he does this because he 'wants to be on the winning side'? Makes no flippin' sense, AND betrays Jaime, who seems to have made up his mind to honorably fight the Night King.

These free folk leaks are getting more and more retarded. I wouldn’t be surprised if we get another “leak” that says Cersei is actually a Targ and gets control of Drogon lol .

Ever since season 7 ended the Internet has been obsessed with this idea of Tyrion betraying Dany, all based on a single look. It doesn’t matter that the writers have debunked it. Tyrion has definitely been conflicted, but I don’t see how that translates into joining up with a despot and betraying his brother, queen and friends. Not to mention he cares about Sansa. He always has...he did his best to keep her safe and comfortable when they were married. But yes, let’s just suddenly have him give her up to be brutally Murdered. This “leak “ reeks of Sansa hate honestly. The fact that Jaime is coming to join team Dany should be enough to show that Tyrion wouldn’t betray them. He loves and owes Jamie his life. 

[domina89]

2 hours ago, GraceK said:

Ever since season 7 ended the Internet has been obsessed with this idea of Tyrion betraying Dany, all based on a single look. It doesn’t matter that the writers have debunked it. Tyrion has definitely been conflicted, but I don’t see how that translates into joining up with a despot and betraying his brother, queen and friends. Not to mention he cares about Sansa. He always has...he did his best to keep her safe and comfortable when they were married. But yes, let’s just suddenly have him give her up to be brutally Murdered. This “leak “ reeks of Sansa hate honestly. The fact that Jaime is coming to join team Dany should be enough to show that Tyrion wouldn’t betray them. He loves and owes Jamie his life.

I think there is book evidence that adds fuel to the fire in this case, and that is why it persists.  Dany's prophecies include: "A white lion ran through grass taller than a man." ". . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . ." "Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."  

I'm not sure the show will play out like the books, but I do think there's a reason Dany is warned not to trust Tyrion.  His loyalty to his family is wavering and ultimately, especially if he thinks his family is about to come to an end, I could see him doing something controversial to prevent that from happening.  He was horrified last season when Dickon Tarly chose to die with his father knowing it would end the Tarly line (or so they thought, anyway).  I could see him not wanting the Lannisters to share that fate.  I do not, however, think he would EVER sacrifice Sansa for that purpose.  

[Advance35]

So yet ANOTHER Sansa death pool has been initiated.  I feel like leaks have said Sansa will die "this season", since the end of Season 4.

As the story has become less nuanced and more dungeons and dragons, the more dynamic characters have either been moved backstage or been killed.  So either way I wasn't expecting a lot of filming for Sansa this year.  As of now not convinced one way or the other....in other words, same old same old.

Just glad we will know one way or the other.  GRRM will never finish and this show is the closest thing to closure book readers will ever get.

[GraceK]

17 minutes ago, domina89 said:

I think there is book evidence that adds fuel to the fire in this case, and that is why it persists.  Dany's prophecies include: "A white lion ran through grass taller than a man." ". . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . ." "Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."  

I'm not sure the show will play out like the books, but I do think there's a reason Dany is warned not to trust Tyrion.  His loyalty to his family is wavering and ultimately, especially if he thinks his family is about to come to an end, I could see him doing something controversial to prevent that from happening.  He was horrified last season when Dickon Tarly chose to die with his father knowing it would end the Tarly line (or so they thought, anyway).  I could see him not wanting the Lannisters to share that fate.  I do not, however, think he would EVER sacrifice Sansa for that purpose.  

the problem is though, is that the show has never mentioned most  of Danys prophecies in the house of the undying. And the show has completely whitewashed Tyrions character to the point where such a epic, deadly betrayal would be almost impossible to pull off unless they just say a f*ck you to the fans . His loyalty to his family IMO extends towards Jaime, he was able to kill his father and Given the fact that Cersei hates him and has just betrayed them all AGAIN, I don’t see him have any loyalty to her.  It doesn’t even make sense for Book Tyrion either, since his book counterpart wants to kill Jaime and rape Cersei. So either way, this Tyrion crossing over to the dark side to align himself with Cersei has no real basis at all. Especially since Jaime is heading to their side, Tyrion would never go against his brother    .  The most I think Tyrion would have done would try to keep Cersei’s baby safe, and once he hears that she betrayed them anyway and then miscarries that’s off the table.

[GraceK]

Seriously, can you picture show Tyrion burning down Winterfell and sacrificing Sansa? Lol 

[domina89]

9 minutes ago, GraceK said:

And the show has completely whitewashed Tyrions character to the point where such a epic, deadly betrayal would be almost impossible to pull off unless they just say a f*ck you to the fans .

I could see D & D thinking they are clever, though, by writing Tyrion this way for the shock value alone.  So much of television writing has become these moments to stun viewers instead of actual thoughtful writing with characterization and continuity in mind.  I do agree with you that it would be quite unexpected for Tyrion to burn down WF and sacrifice Sansa.  I think if Tyrion ever committed some sort of betrayal, it would be much craftier and he would not do something quite so obviously mustache-twirling evil.

[GraceK]

10 minutes ago, domina89 said:

I could see D & D thinking they are clever, though, by writing Tyrion this way for the shock value alone.  So much of television writing has become these moments to stun viewers instead of actual thoughtful writing with characterization and continuity in mind.  I do agree with you that it would be quite unexpected for Tyrion to burn down WF and sacrifice Sansa.  I think if Tyrion ever committed some sort of betrayal, it would be much craftier and he would not do something quite so obviously mustache-twirling evil.

At this point I wouldn’t put anything pass D&D after listening to the commentary of season 7.  The  way they were praising Cersei and insulting Jon  says a lot about where they want this show to go IMO

[domina89]

8 minutes ago, GraceK said:

At this point I wouldn’t put anything pass D&D after listening to the commentary of season 7.  The  way they were praising Cersei and insulting Jon  says a lot about where they want this show to go IMO

One of my biggest disappointments with their showrunning has been how they allow their personal feelings toward the actors to steer their writing- and it is obvious.  It is a terrible habit and prevents me from taking them too seriously.  How they feel about Kit Harington, for example, should not effect the writing, but then we have characters insulting Jon Snow and making him the butt of height jokes (so mature).  Sometimes this habit results in something creative such as them bringing back Jason Momoa for Dany's vision in the HOTU, but it usually results in subpar storytelling and nonsensical character arcs.

[Edith]

1 hour ago, domina89 said:

I think there is book evidence that adds fuel to the fire in this case, and that is why it persists.  Dany's prophecies include: "A white lion ran through grass taller than a man." ". . . three treasons will you know . . . once for blood and once for gold and once for love . . ." "Soon comes the pale mare, and after her the others. Kraken and dark flame, lion and griffin, the sun’s son and the mummer’s dragon. Trust none of them. Remember the Undying. Beware the perfumed seneschal."  

I'm not sure the show will play out like the books, but I do think there's a reason Dany is warned not to trust Tyrion.  His loyalty to his family is wavering and ultimately, especially if he thinks his family is about to come to an end, I could see him doing something controversial to prevent that from happening.  He was horrified last season when Dickon Tarly chose to die with his father knowing it would end the Tarly line (or so they thought, anyway).  I could see him not wanting the Lannisters to share that fate.  I do not, however, think he would EVER sacrifice Sansa for that purpose.  

Dany betrayal for blood cost her, her child and husband. If Tyrion is Dany's betrayal for love what does Sansa has anything to do with it? Shouldn't be something personal to her? Jon? the baby? Her dragons? But Sansa?! What's the relation there?

I have always thought for example that Dany's betrayal for gold happened in ADWD and that's why she was poisoned and as a consequence, lost her child even though she hasn't realized yet that she was pregnant.

[GraceK]

20 minutes ago, domina89 said:

One of my biggest disappointments with their showrunning has been how they allow their personal feelings toward the actors to steer their writing- and it is obvious.  It is a terrible habit and prevents me from taking them too seriously.  How they feel about Kit Harington, for example, should not effect the writing, but then we have characters insulting Jon Snow and making him the butt of height jokes (so mature).  Sometimes this habit results in something creative such as them bringing back Jason Momoa for Dany's vision in the HOTU, but it usually results in subpar storytelling and nonsensical character arcs.

I agree ?. Listening to the commentary on  The Dragon and Wolf 4 things were said that really made me mad.

one:: that Jaime was basically an idealistic idiot and Cersei had the right idea with her evil plan.

Two:: in the Dragonpit, all they did was mock Jon Snow for f*cking up everything. Literally..those exact words. Yes, Jon Snow screwed them all over with no mention that Cersei was lying through her teeth.

three:: Sansa being conflicted about killing littlefinger is the difference between her and Dany, who apparently is cold hearted and doesn’t care 

fourth::  the scene with Jon and Theon, where Theon tells Jon that he always knows what’s right , earned a laugh and a “ that’s not true” from Them . 

Real nice. Doesn’t give me much confidence for season 8

( obviously I’m paraphrasing)

Edited February 16, 2018 by GraceK

[domina89]

15 minutes ago, Edith said:

If Tyrion is Dany's betrayal for love what does Sansa has anything to do with it? Shouldn't be something personal to her? Jon? the baby? Her dragons? But Sansa?! What's the relation there?

I interpreted that as someone may betray her for THEIR love of someone or something else, not necessarily hers.  Tyrion loves his family, thus he could betray Dany in some way for that reason.  I don't agree with the Sansa spoiler, either, but theoretically if Tyrion made some agreement with Cersei that betrays Jon and Dany in order to preserve his family, I could see that as a fulfillment of that prophecy.  It could be interpreted many ways, though, so who knows...

[GraceK]

5 minutes ago, domina89 said:

Tyrion loves his family, thus he could betray Dany in some way for that reason.  I don't agree with the Sansa spoiler, either, but theoretically if Tyrion made some agreement with Cersei that betrays Jon and Dany in order to preserve his family,

The thing Is,  I don’t think  that Tyrion loves his family. He loves Jaime. He killed his father and has admitted to fantasizing about killing Cersei. Cersei and Tywin have done nothing but torture and abuse and mistreat him. He may not personally want Cersei dead because she is his sister, but that doesn’t mean he would be willing to kill innocent people and have the army of the dead win and Sansa”s head mounted on a spike just for Cersei’s benefit. Especially if it means betraying his brother, who he actually loves. By ensuring Jamie’s survival, that alone peserves his family.

[GraceK]

I think any agreement he made with Cersei would be for the survival of her unborn child if she loses. Not burning down Winterfell and having Sansa killed. 

[domina89]

10 minutes ago, GraceK said:

The thing Is,  I don’t think  that Tyrion loves his family. He loves Jaime. He killed his father and has admitted to fantasizing about killing Cersei. Cersei and Tywin have done nothing but torture and abuse and mistreat him. He may not personally want Cersei dead because she is his sister, but that doesn’t mean he would be willing to kill innocent people and have the army of the dead win and Sansa”s head mounted on a spike just for Cersei’s benefit. Especially if it means betraying his brother, who he actually loves. By ensuring Jamie’s survival, that alone peserves his family.

True, but Tyrion feels horribly guilty about the deaths of his niece and nephews.  He loved them.  He may not love Cersei, but he loves that child she is carrying, which is also an extension of Jaime.  If Cersei is smart, she will use that to her advantage as long as possible, even if she loses the baby.

Edit: GraceK -You beat me to the punch with your reply, but yes.

Edited February 16, 2018 by domina89

[GrailKing]

A flag came up for me when Sansa and LF had that speech about her being safe surrounded by people and family who love her, add to her warning to Jon about Cersei.

Tyrion does and did love nieces and nephews and of course Jamie, but in book Tyrion also resents Sansa .

Fake or no, this opens a possible wtf for S8.

My only thinking is it's a herring, and Strikland is told - bring me the head of the red hair bitch - and he does, but it's Aly Karstarks head instead. 

[GraceK]

3 minutes ago, GrailKing said:

A flag came up for me when Sansa and LF had that speech about her being safe surrounded by people and family who love her, add to her warning to Jon about Cersei.

Tyrion does and did love nieces and nephews and of course Jamie, but in book Tyrion also resents Sansa .

Fake or no, this opens a possible wtf for S8.

My only thinking is it's a herring, and Strikland is told - bring me the head of the red hair bitch - and he does, but it's Aly Karstarks head instead. 

Sansa may very well be in danger next season . There is no guarantee she will survive . The issue I have with these “leaks” is the bullshit about Tyrion. There is absolutely no foreshadowing or build up to have Tyrion pull a move like that. There were other leaks going around that had Euron mounting Danys dead body and parading her through the streets with people throwing feces. Now it’s Sansa having her head on a spike. These are purely for shock value and to have people all riled up and to make  trolls and fan fiction writers feel powerful for upsetting everyone. It’s super easy to take the stuff that has been confirmed and create a whole false plot out it. Freefolk is a haven of trolls and false leaks every year.