Season 8: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[Happy Harpy]

3 minutes ago, nikma said:

Yes, it is pretty difficult, when you don't know context and motivation. And I think Tyrion walking on the battlefield in 7x05, could be foreshadowing for 8x06. D&D love parallels.

Absolutely agree about lack of context, that's why I didn't use "impossible". OTOH, by definition parallel lines don't cross each other and those two ideas do; especially if "they deserved it" is part of the context.

[nikma]

17 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

D&D need(ed) to tread carefully though, because Tyrion will have to be guilty AF or it will leave an all bitter no sweet absolutely unsatisfying taste in the audience's mouth, while his actions will have to fit his show persona or the audience won't accept it and it won't be satisfying (in the sense of "making sense") either.

Yeah. they will need to tread carefully, but let's not act like it's some unresolvable situation.

D&D's job is to create situation where the audience understands why Tyrion has to die, but they still feel bad about it. It's not like similar things weren't done on this show, on smaller scale. 

If we don't get more leaks in the next 5 months, I think after E1 we will know if Friki was right. With knowledge about potential betrayal, it won't be hard to see set up in E1. If it's happening, it would be obvious for those who know the leaks. 

[Happy Harpy]

6 minutes ago, nikma said:

Yeah. they will need to tread carefully, but let's not act like it's some unresolvable situation...

Not in absolute, that's precisely my point. I think that it doesn't make sense within the context/info (edit: I mean, the details) given by Friki, only.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[bubble sparkly]

D&D and the actors have talked a lot in the past few seasons about filming fake scenes. Now, I’m not sure they actually did that in s7 and it remains to be seen whether they did in s8 (although I do think that whole thing where Kit and Lena were filming in front of a conveniently wide open window is suspect). It would be pretty funny if they filmed a fake scene of King Bran to try and throw off some extras and the media, which in turn resulted in the whole betting saga.

[nikma]

I hope they pull this off, because I thought that after Book 5/Season 5 D&D and GRRM wouldn't have much room to create big twists with major characters, especially not on RW's level, and that, when it comes to major characters, story will be pretty much straightforward.

But I guess I was wrong. Lol

Great Tyrion's death at the end of the story could secure that "unpredictable" GoT's legacy. 

And again, they have all the elements they need to make this great(Tyrion's love for Dany, conflicted loyalties, constant need for approval from his family, guilt for bad things that happened to the Lannisters, when he is cornered he can do some dark things,...), so I hope they do.

Edited December 5, 2018 by nikma

[Eyes High]

21 minutes ago, bubble sparkly said:

D&D and the actors have talked a lot in the past few seasons about filming fake scenes. Now, I’m not sure they actually did that in s7 and it remains to be seen whether they did in s8 (although I do think that whole thing where Kit and Lena were filming in front of a conveniently wide open window is suspect). It would be pretty funny if they filmed a fake scene of King Bran to try and throw off some extras and the media, which in turn resulted in the whole betting saga.

Prior to S8, they have never filmed fake scenes for the show, unless you count Sibel Kekilli on set in Season 6 in costume or Kit and Emilia horsing around with a dragon head in Spain as a "fake scene." They've stepped up their game security-wise for S8, though, so it's possible that they departed from their usual practices for S8.

Sophie claimed she filmed fake scenes in Dubrovnik for S8 to fool the public, but no one saw her in Dubrovnik, let alone filming, which would kind of defeat the purpose of doing a fake scene in the first place. There has been speculation that the Cersei and Jon scene filmed at Minceta Tower in Dubrovnik was fake, too.

Bringing this back to the betting saga--and what a saga it is!--the timing of the betting runs is very interesting. It's probably not cast or crew, since the first betting run was in the middle of December, well past the time that cast and crew would have learned about the ending. So if anyone is doing the betting it probably is extras, whether or not the scene in question was fake.

Edited December 5, 2018 by Eyes High

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, screamin said:

The only person he's really controlled against his will has been poor Hodor, who seems to have been especially vulnerable to him. And even he required a 'breaking-in' period, during which he was unable to complain or ask for help from anyone around him - which is unlikely to be the case with anyone else Bran tries to possess. Nor do I think we have seen that Bran or the Raven could possess people over long distances by weirless.

 And I don't think "Hold the Door" was actually a moment of Bran physically controlling Hodor's actions. If he's in control of Hodor himself, why would he be screaming at HIMSELF to "hold the door"? He'd just do it. I think it was just a moment of poor, heroic, obedient  Hodor striving to his last moment to help his friends as they tell him. To believe it's just Bran using Hodor up as his human padlock diminishes Hodor's sacrifice.

Besides, if Bran's powers really make him invulnerable to attack, how did the Three Eyed Raven get overthrown? I think it was spelled out that the world is too vast for Bran to be aware of it all.

 

 

No matter the distance even Arya can warg Nymeria from Braavos. And she's neither a greenseer nor trained like Bran is. If Bran can control people, he can do it from a distance too then.

 

Bran also controlled Hodor when he wasn't the TER and he's much stronger now as the TER

 

Also Bran can put commands in people's heads even when he's left them.

 

He does it in ASOS too:

It did no good. "HOOOODOR!" moaned Hodor. Meera tried to catch him and calm him, but he was too strong. He flung her aside with no more than a shrug. "HOOOOOODOOOOOOOR!" the stableboy screamed as lightning filled the sky again, and even Jojen was shouting now, shouting at Bran and Meera to shut him up.

"Be quiet!" Bran said in a shrill scared voice, reaching up uselessly for Hodor's leg as he crashed past, reaching, reaching.

Hodor staggered, and closed his mouth. He shook his head slowly from side to side, sank back to the floor, and sat crosslegged. When the thunder boomed, he scarcely seemed to hear it. The four of them sat in the dark tower, scarce daring to breathe.

"Bran, what did you do?" Meera whispered.

"Nothing." Bran shook his head. "I don't know." But he did. I reached for him, the way I reach for Summer. He had been Hodor for half a heartbeat. It scared him.

 

-----------

 

Bran's no longer in Hodor and yet Hodor still can't speak.

Hold the Door is about Bran accidentally ruining Hodor's life and putting a command in his head to self-sacrifice himself for Bran.

Edited December 5, 2018 by WindyNights

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

I hope they pull this off, because I thought that after Book 5/Season 5 D&D and GRRM wouldn't have much room to create big twists with major characters, especially not on RW's level, and that, when it comes to major characters, story will be pretty much straightforward.

But I guess I was wrong. Lol

Great Tyrion's death at the end of the story could secure that "unpredictable" GoT's legacy. 

And again, they have all the elements they need to make this great(Tyrion's love for Dany, conflicted loyalties, constant need for approval from his family, guilt for bad things that happened to the Lannisters, when he is cornered he can do some dark things,...), so I hope they do.

 

GRRM is still coming up with twists even into TWOW. He just made a new one up. Some are bound to be good even great.

Edited December 5, 2018 by WindyNights

[nikma]

Proof that BSB has no idea what she is talking about.

 

Quote

 

I still think that they dropped the 'Tyrion in love with Dany' storyline in S7 and it won't be part of S8. It's there in the S6 scripts coz that was the initial plan for S7. IMO they wouldn't have dropped the Tyrion-Bronn conversation in S7, if they were still planning to have this storyline in S8. Outside of the weird look during boatsex, they scrubbed all moments of Tyrion's jealousy/attraction for Dany from the S7 outline. I think they realized it would be too much drama with only 6 episodes left.

 

[MrsR]

3 hours ago, screamin said:

 

 And I don't think "Hold the Door" was actually a moment of Bran physically controlling Hodor's actions. If he's in control of Hodor himself, why would he be screaming at HIMSELF to "hold the door"? He'd just do it. I think it was just a moment of poor, heroic, obedient  Hodor striving to his last moment to help his friends as they tell him. To believe it's just Bran using Hodor up as his human padlock diminishes Hodor's sacrifice.

 

 Bran never told Hodor to "HOLD THE DOOR!!.".  Meera did.

It was Bran's inability to control his nascent warging powers, his freezing in place, while Meera's words leaked though that burned out Hodor's brain and determined his destiny.  Yes, Bran caused it to happen but it wasn't entirely deliberate. It was a by product of a dangerous confluence of events.  

Edited December 6, 2018 by MrsR

[nikma]

I think Sansa could be the one to in a way push Tyrion towards treason in S8, if she makes it clear that for the Starks Lannisters' crimes are not forgotten and that she wants them to be punished after the Great War. Death for Cersei and exile for Jaime. And taking Cersei's child as ward. Which would make complete sense IMO. Only a fool would let Cersei live after everything. And Jaime killed Jory, Blackfish, tried to kill Bran, his army commited many crimes in Riverlands.

 

If that happens meltdowns in this fandom will be epic. Lol

Edited December 6, 2018 by nikma

[screamin]

2 hours ago, WindyNights said:

No matter the distance even Arya can warg Nymeria from Braavos. And she's neither a greenseer nor trained like Bran is. If Bran can control people, he can do it from a distance too then

Arya is bonded to Nymeria, as Bran to Summer. She can warg into her, or peer through the eyes of a nearby cat, but I don't believe she or even Bran ever tried to control something or someone unprepared and unwilling on the first try, absolutely cold - certainly never a total stranger at a distance. Bran had to get the hang of it with Hodor over many tries, until he felt entering him as comfortable as an old pair of trousers (and damn, that's a sinister, violating image). Hodor didn't have the mental wherewithal to fight back, or the resources to tell anyone and ask for help. There's no reason to assume that Bran will have it any easier in 'breaking in" a human with more mental resources, capable of asking maesters, red priests and such for help.

I notice you don't address my point that even with centuries of experience, the 3 Eyed Raven still could not foresee and prevent his own fall - with a lot fewer humans to keep track of. If greenseers were so omnisciently infallible, so capable of triumphing over mere strength in numbers, how did the Children of the Forests, with their greenseers, fall to brutish humans? Yes, they can see far away, they might look through someone's eyes now and then and even try to take over someone - though AFAICT, not either with ease or unnoticed. But Bran can only check what one person is doing at a time, and he can only do it in real time. Following up on a false lead may take longer than he has to find out another enemy coming too close to be avoided. And if he's a king who's burned KL to the ground? He'll have too many enemies to keep track of them all. Like the Children of the Forest and their greenseers, the advantage is neutralized by numbers.

[GrailKing]

1 hour ago, nikma said:

I think Sansa could be the one to in a way push Tyrion towards treason in S8, if she makes it clear that for the Starks Lannisters' crimes are not forgotten and that she wants them to be punished after the Great War. Death for Cersei and exile for Jaime. And taking Cersei's child as ward. Which would make complete sense IMO. Only a fool would let Cersei live after everything. And Jaime killed Jory, Blackfish, tried to kill Bran, his army commited many crimes in Riverlands.

 

If that happens meltdowns in this fandom will be epic. Lol

I once mentioned, that I think Sansa may either setup Tyrion, or betray him in some way, despite how she talks of him, book and show, she down right hates the Lannisters, she's made that clear in the books, and doesn't trust any of them, even Tyrion.

When she says Tyrion isn't like the other Lannisters, he was kind, she also adds, but it's too dangerous and it could be a trap.

Jon doesn't think Tyrion would do such a thing, he may not; but that was before Jon and Danny laid eyes on each other.

[SeanC]

6 minutes ago, MrsR said:

You forgot about BRAN. 

 

Bran is a character you kind of have to forget exists for most of the Winterfell plot, because his existence logically should render pretty much all of it moot or impossible.

Turning this back toward speculation, I still really have no idea what Bran is going to do in Season 8, because R+L=J exposition, which has been virtually the only thing the writers have used his powers for since he came back.  Clearly he's got some sort of role to play, but we really don't have much sense as to what.  That's actually one of the things I was most interested in seeing when he returned in Season 6, but it shed very little light.

Edited December 6, 2018 by SeanC

[SimoneS]

If by the time that Jon and Dany arrive in King's Landing, the NK has turned most of the city's residents into wights, then maybe they will use wildfire to kill the wights en masse. Maybe Dany does her human dragon magic one last time before the story ends.

Edited December 6, 2018 by SimoneS

[SeanC]

18 minutes ago, anamika said:

You still have not explained why supporting Jon would make her lose their support in the future. Since you're argument was that she was not supporting Jon because she wanted to claim the support of the Northern lords for herself in the future. A lack of family loyalty is a very attractive quality for these Northern Lords?

 

I'll take this over to the character thread.

Edited December 6, 2018 by SeanC

[nikma]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

I agree with BsB that the show will go with conflicted family loyalties for Tyrion's betrayal (If there is one) rathe

You can prefer that, but you have to be blind to ignore that the show is seting up Tyrion's love for Dany and to claim that D&D dropped that storyline after you saw Tyrion's last scene of S7.

[Happy Harpy]

9 hours ago, nikma said:

Proof that BSB has no idea what she is talking about.

Quote

I still think that they dropped the 'Tyrion in love with Dany' storyline in S7 and it won't be part of S8. It's there in the S6 scripts coz that was the initial plan for S7. IMO they wouldn't have dropped the Tyrion-Bronn conversation in S7, if they were still planning to have this storyline in S8. Outside of the weird look during boatsex, they scrubbed all moments of Tyrion's jealousy/attraction for Dany from the S7 outline. I think they realized it would be too much drama with only 6 episodes left.

 

"I still think" = personal opinion in a debate she obviously had before. This isn't a locution you use when you're giving certain info, but when you're explaining a personal theory while acknowledging it isn't more than that. BSB isn't like Truede or Awayforthelads, she's also a regular poster at Freefolk.

I don't know when she said that (discussing the S6 scripts and the S7 outline only so I guess it isn't new, but there's no date on that quote) yet technically speaking, we don't know even now if Tyrion in love with Dany will play in S8. I don't remember that Friki himself mentioned romantic jealousy as a motive for Tyrion's betrayal but rather his hatred of the people in KL (or at least not at first although again, I quickly lost track of those).

BSB seemingly had fractional info that came from people on set at the DP (probably the body doubles) and never pretended she had access to scripts. I'm prone to believe her basic set information, but I wouldn't give more credit to her ideas than to anyone else's.

[ElizaD]

The big leaks this year all seem to have something contradictory, unexplained or dodgy about them, so I probably won't be ready to believe in any of them until episode 1 (or the entire season!) has aired. That said, I do hope the betrayal happens. It would come almost out of nowhere on the show and the much-debated Sansa/Arya conflict isn't a promising sign of how well GOT is currently able to cope with twisty character-focused plots, but still, Tyrion betrayal + Targaryen restoration (+ a Stark rebuilding Winterfell if it gets destroyed in 8x03) just might be my perfect endgame. The Targaryens haven't been my favorite house (and I get annoyed whenever I'm reminded that GRRM is publishing Targaryen backstory rather than TWOW) but seeing how the plot has developed post-ASOS, Targaryens regaining the throne makes the most sense to me. The betrayal wouldn't mess up what really seems to have been the main narrative buildup in the way that something like King Bran would. Yet it would still feel like an absolutely huge twist because of how central Tyrion is and how secure his future has looked. After Bran (who's commonly ignored), he's generally seemed like the safest big character: who else could be the Lord of Casterly Rock? Jon/Dany/Arya/Sansa all have various big and believable theories about their deaths, but despite some betrayal discussion among book fans Tyrion has never felt like someone who's in serious danger of dying. And to die like this, for betraying other major fan favorites - my instinct is still to dismiss the leak because it's so wild.

While Stannis is nowhere near Tyrion in importance or popularity, hugging Shireen at the beginning of season 5 and burning her a few episodes later shows that GOT might not be opposed to abrupt face-heel turns. I'd guess that the Tyrion betrayal has a 95% chance of being a mess that's far more damaging to the fandom and the show's reputation than the muddy motives and timeline of the Sansa/Arya conflict. But that 5% chance of it actually working, with Dinklage nailing all the emotions of his last trial and making the viewers feel like they understand how things ended up like this... it would mean GOT was unpredictable to the very end. If done well this moment could be bigger than the Red Wedding because Tyrion is far more beloved than Robb/Catelyn and his death would absolutely be bittersweet enough for most viewers.

[nikma]

I think the most controversial thing in the fandom will be the fact that Tyrion is in love with Daenerys. And tbh the major problem is that a lot of people in this fandom don't even get this story. Take for example how many fans thought that Dany-Jon's relationship is not possible. And that's the whole point of this story lol.

[Katsullivan]

On 12/4/2018 at 9:35 PM, Eyes High said:

GRRM may grouse about the Dune series not being one of his favourites, but he sure borrows from it liberally: Alia/Arya, Jessica/Catelyn, Leto/Ned, Paul/Jon, the Face Dancers/Faceless Men, etc. Is Bloodraven extending his lifespan by merging with the weirwood inspired by Leto II extending his lifespan merging with the sandtrout? GRRM would never admit it, but I have my suspicions.

OMG. No, just no. Alia =/= Arya unless you're counting 2-syllable names that start with A? What do these 2 characters even have in common? Jessica =/= Catelyn. Again --- how? They are both beautiful women married to powerful men? Wow, that's a very narrow description. All these parallels have next to nothing in common. I've read both books, suffered through the Dune six, then his son's last 2 volumes, then the masses of sequels and prequels and nothing in these books is remotely close to what AWOIAF is about. 

[Eyes High]

5 hours ago, Happy Harpy said:

"I still think" = personal opinion in a debate she obviously had before. This isn't a locution you use when you're giving certain info, but when you're explaining a personal theory while acknowledging it isn't more than that. BSB isn't like Truede or Awayforthelads, she's also a regular poster at Freefolk.

I don't know when she said that (discussing the S6 scripts and the S7 outline only so I guess it isn't new, but there's no date on that quote) yet technically speaking, we don't know even now if Tyrion in love with Dany will play in S8. I don't remember that Friki himself mentioned romantic jealousy as a motive for Tyrion's betrayal but rather his hatred of the people in KL (or at least not at first although again, I quickly lost track of those).

BSB seemingly had fractional info that came from people on set at the DP (probably the body doubles) and never pretended she had access to scripts. I'm prone to believe her basic set information, but I wouldn't give more credit to her ideas than to anyone else's.

I guess the idea is that if BSB has access to info from people who were on set and who worked on S8, and BSB published photos taken from inside the vehicle the stand-ins used to leave the set during the DP filming that were presumably supplied by her source, wouldn't she also have access to certain info about what goes on in S8 plotwise? She knows one or more of the stand-ins (or someone who works with them) at the very least. She also knew when the stand-ins were on set during the Seville filming. So if her source gives her that information, it stands to reason that they could also give her information about S8, although what BSB claims to have is pretty limited. 

BSB's always pretty clear when she's speculating and when she is talking about inside info from her source, and she has never claimed to have any info about Tyrion's endgame, other than saying that her DP info contradicts Friki's. Her discussion of the Tyrion/Dany storyline being dropped for S8 is speculation, not leaks, and she has never claimed otherwise.

Friki's information is a self-contradictory mess, but he must have some reason for being so sure about it. We'll have to wait and see.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

8 hours ago, ElizaD said:

The big leaks this year all seem to have something contradictory, unexplained or dodgy about them, so I probably won't be ready to believe in any of them until episode 1 (or the entire season!) has aired. That said, I do hope the betrayal happens. It would come almost out of nowhere on the show and the much-debated Sansa/Arya conflict isn't a promising sign of how well GOT is currently able to cope with twisty character-focused plots, but still, Tyrion betrayal + Targaryen restoration (+ a Stark rebuilding Winterfell if it gets destroyed in 8x03) just might be my perfect endgame. The Targaryens haven't been my favorite house (and I get annoyed whenever I'm reminded that GRRM is publishing Targaryen backstory rather than TWOW) but seeing how the plot has developed post-ASOS, Targaryens regaining the throne makes the most sense to me. The betrayal wouldn't mess up what really seems to have been the main narrative buildup in the way that something like King Bran would. Yet it would still feel like an absolutely huge twist because of how central Tyrion is and how secure his future has looked. After Bran (who's commonly ignored), he's generally seemed like the safest big character: who else could be the Lord of Casterly Rock? Jon/Dany/Arya/Sansa all have various big and believable theories about their deaths, but despite some betrayal discussion among book fans Tyrion has never felt like someone who's in serious danger of dying. And to die like this, for betraying other major fan favorites - my instinct is still to dismiss the leak because it's so wild.

While Stannis is nowhere near Tyrion in importance or popularity, hugging Shireen at the beginning of season 5 and burning her a few episodes later shows that GOT might not be opposed to abrupt face-heel turns. I'd guess that the Tyrion betrayal has a 95% chance of being a mess that's far more damaging to the fandom and the show's reputation than the muddy motives and timeline of the Sansa/Arya conflict. But that 5% chance of it actually working, with Dinklage nailing all the emotions of his last trial and making the viewers feel like they understand how things ended up like this... it would mean GOT was unpredictable to the very end. If done well this moment could be bigger than the Red Wedding because Tyrion is far more beloved than Robb/Catelyn and his death would absolutely be bittersweet enough for most viewers.

I think you nailed this. I had dismissed the cast's comments about being surprised about the ending and that it was bittersweet as the usual publicity comments because all of the speculation/leaks didn't seem to fit. But when I seriously think about Tyrion betraying Dany/Jon and being executed, I can believe that really would have shocked the cast when they read the final scripts. It does me, mostly because it does seems of implausible given how he has been portrayed on the show. If D&D can make Tyrion's actions credible, it would be one of the biggest tv plots ever.

Edited December 6, 2018 by SimoneS

[Eyes High]

Apparently John Bradley said something during a streamed chat with Maisie at CCXP that accidentally revealed that Sam survives...which is of course not exactly news to anyone familiar with the filming information coming out of Seville, but there you have it.

The CCXP panel with D&D, Maisie and John starts at 6:30 pm local time in Sao Paulo. Fingers crossed for a teaser!

[Happy Harpy]

6 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I guess the idea is that if BSB has access to info from people who were on set and who worked on S8, and BSB published photos taken from inside the vehicle the stand-ins used to leave the set during the DP filming that were presumably supplied by her source, wouldn't she also have access to certain info about what goes on in S8 plotwise? She knows one or more of the stand-ins (or someone who works with them) at the very least. She also knew when the stand-ins were on set during the Seville filming. So if her source gives her that information, it stands to reason that they could also give her information about S8, although what BSB claims to have is pretty limited.

 

Her limited knowledge is why I believe she's either legit, either the most clever of them all. And those pictures are why I believe her set information. I agree that she might have been privy of some other info but I'm keeping my Saint Thomas stance, I believe only what I see and its close collaterals. 

2 hours ago, SimoneS said:

But when I seriously think about Tyrion betraying Dany/Jon and being executed, I can believe that really would have shocked the cast when they read the final scripts. It does me, mostly because it does seems of implausible given how he has been portrayed on the show. If D&D can make Tyrion's actions credible, it would be one of the biggest tv plots ever.

 

"Still going strong" would take such an ironic nuance then. I do have the same reservations as you, re: Tyrion's portrayal on the show. Yet imo, DxD did a rather good job with the big characters love/hate flip-flopping so far (Theon, Jaime...even the degree of hatred towards Melisandre seems to have cooled off) so I think that on paper, they're able to pull it off.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Happy Harpy

[WindyNights]

19 hours ago, screamin said:

Arya is bonded to Nymeria, as Bran to Summer. She can warg into her, or peer through the eyes of a nearby cat, but I don't believe she or even Bran ever tried to control something or someone unprepared and unwilling on the first try, absolutely cold - certainly never a total stranger at a distance. Bran had to get the hang of it with Hodor over many tries, until he felt entering him as comfortable as an old pair of trousers (and damn, that's a sinister, violating image). Hodor didn't have the mental wherewithal to fight back, or the resources to tell anyone and ask for help. There's no reason to assume that Bran will have it any easier in 'breaking in" a human with more mental resources, capable of asking maesters, red priests and such for help.

I notice you don't address my point that even with centuries of experience, the 3 Eyed Raven still could not foresee and prevent his own fall - with a lot fewer humans to keep track of. If greenseers were so omnisciently infallible, so capable of triumphing over mere strength in numbers, how did the Children of the Forests, with their greenseers, fall to brutish humans? Yes, they can see far away, they might look through someone's eyes now and then and even try to take over someone - though AFAICT, not either with ease or unnoticed. But Bran can only check what one person is doing at a time, and he can only do it in real time. Following up on a false lead may take longer than he has to find out another enemy coming too close to be avoided. And if he's a king who's burned KL to the ground? He'll have too many enemies to keep track of them all. Like the Children of the Forest and their greenseers, the advantage is neutralized by numbers.

Actually, Bran controlled Hodor on the first try back in ASOS. Again, this was untrained and by accident.

Now imagine what he can do now that's he so much stronger.

TER didn't care about surving because he knew he would just merge with Bran when he died. The only thing he had to do is make sure that Bran was there when he died.

[Eyes High]

26 minutes ago, Happy Harpy said:

Her limited knowledge is why I believe she's either legit, either the most clever of them all. And those pictures are why I believe her set information. I agree that she might have been privy of some other info but I'm keeping my Saint Thomas stance, I believe only what I see and its close collaterals. 

 

A Saint Thomas stance is the smart play here. It's hard to say either way. 

There was a new CGI teaser shown before the panel. It's of ice and fire covering various sigil animal statues on a map, like the Dragonstone table map. No voiceovers or anything, though, just music. The ice covers everything on part of the map, first a wolf statue, then a dragon statue. Then the fire covers another part of a map, lighting up a lion statue. Then the fire and ice collide, leading a crystal barrier to be created by their clash. It's only thirty seconds or so. No premiere date, just "April 2019."

The official GameofThrones Twitter feed is reporting some of the answers. D&D were asked when they first figured out how they would end GOT, and they answered "Sometime after we finished the third season," which was of course would be around the time when they had the big meeting with GRRM in April 2013.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Eyes High

[anamika]

[SeanC]

4 minutes ago, anamika said:

A+ visuals.

[SimoneS]

Talk about a trailer full of symbols that requires tons of intuitive guessing. 

My first interpretation: The NK takes down Winterfell symbolized by the Direwolf and maybe another of Dany's dragons (Rhaegal). While the Targaryens (Jon and Dany) burn the Lannisters to a crisp on their way to confront the NK. 

The more I think about it, the Lannisters' sigil is so prominently burnt. Does this symbolize deaths by dragon fire for the remaining Lannisters? 

Did anyone see the Baratheon sigil, the Stag? It was the other great House still included in the opening last season.

One more thing, I think that it is dragon glass between the Ice and Fire.

Edited December 6, 2018 by SimoneS

[nikma]

So they have the same marketing strategy they had for >S6 and S7. Nice. 

[GraceK]

I like how the Lion is engulfed in flames 😂😂😂

[Eyes High]

19 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

Talk about a trailer full of symbols that requires tons of intuitive guessing. 

My first interpretation: The NK takes down Winterfell symbolized by the Direwolf and maybe another of Dany's dragons (Rhaegal). While the Targaryens (Jon and Dany) burn the Lannisters to a crisp on their way to confront the NK. 

The more I think about it, the Lannisters' sigil is so prominent burnt. Does this symbolize deaths by dragon fire for the remaining Lannisters? 

Did anyone see the Baratheon sigil, the Stag? It was the other great House still included in the opening last season.

 

My interpretation? The Starks, Jon and Dany all fall victim to the AOTD, as ice covers the direwolf and the dragon. Cersei, in a shocking twist, is revealed as a secret Targ and bonds with Drogon. As a dragonrider, she makes a desperate attempt to stop the AOTD by setting the southern part of Westeros on fire. Because dragon fire is...magic, let's say, and the AOTD is magic, the two magics cancel each other out, resulting in a crystal barrier that will protect what's left of the south from the ravages of the AOTD. (Southern) Westeros is saved! (Except for all the fire that destroyed everything.) Cersei is acclaimed as the heroic savior of Westeros and the rightful queen. Fin. Bittersweet! Unexpected! Brave!

Orrrrrrr they just did a bunch of stuff that looked cool. Fire destroying shit, ice freezing shit, throw in some sigils, done.

Edited December 6, 2018 by Eyes High

[SimoneS]

2 minutes ago, GraceK said:

I like how the Lion is engulfed in flames 😂😂😂

It does feel good to see the Lannisters get what has been coming to them for a long time. :)

[GraceK]

4 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

My interpretation? The Starks, Jon and Dany all fall victim to the AOTD, as ice covers the direwolf and the dragon. Cersei, in a shocking twist, is revealed as a secret Targ and bonds with Drogon. As a dragonrider, she makes a desperate attempt to stop the AOTD by setting the southern part of Westeros on fire. Because dragon fire is...magic, let's say, and the AOTD is magic, the two magics cancel each other out, resulting in a crystal barrier that will protect what's left of the south from the ravages of the AOTD. (Southern) Westeros is saved! (Except for all the fire that destroyed everything.) Cersei is acclaimed as the heroic savior of Westeros and the rightful queen. Fin. Bittersweet! Unexpected! Brave!

That would be amaze balls.😂 

Edited December 6, 2018 by GraceK

[YaddaYadda]

44 minutes ago, anamika said:

When ice and fire meet, they make dragonglass. 

ETA: That's the Painted Table for one, I think.

The cold is traveling north to south. Ice overtaking the north, direwolf and dragon is them losing their battles there. And if we are getting something of a chronology, then Cersei will be gone before the NK arrives in KL (symbolized by the lion lit on fire) and it seems the final stand will be in KL, a collision course of sorts. 

Edited December 6, 2018 by YaddaYadda

[GraceK]

Just now, YaddaYadda said:

When ice and fire meet, they make dragonglass. 

That was WOTW interpretation as well.

http://watchersonthewall.com/season-8-teaser-trailer-released/#more-166873

[YaddaYadda]

4 minutes ago, GraceK said:

That was WOTW interpretation as well.

http://watchersonthewall.com/season-8-teaser-trailer-released/#more-166873

I'm going to give this a read shortly, but ice meeting fire, making dragonglass, frozen fire, is for me and has always been Jon symbolically. 

[screamin]

1 hour ago, WindyNights said:

Actually, Bran controlled Hodor on the first try back in ASOS. Again, this was untrained and by accident.

This is what you quoted earlier:
 

Quote

It did no good. "HOOOODOR!" moaned Hodor. Meera tried to catch him and calm him, but he was too strong. He flung her aside with no more than a shrug. "HOOOOOODOOOOOOOR!" the stableboy screamed as lightning filled the sky again, and even Jojen was shouting now, shouting at Bran and Meera to shut him up.

"Be quiet!" Bran said in a shrill scared voice, reaching up uselessly for Hodor's leg as he crashed past, reaching, reaching.

Hodor staggered, and closed his mouth. He shook his head slowly from side to side, sank back to the floor, and sat crosslegged. When the thunder boomed, he scarcely seemed to hear it. The four of them sat in the dark tower, scarce daring to breathe.

"Bran, what did you do?" Meera whispered.

"Nothing." Bran shook his head. "I don't know." But he did. I reached for him, the way I reach for Summer. He had been Hodor for half a heartbeat. It scared him.

 

You said that it proved that Bran could instill commands in a human brain that the human was bound to obey even when Bran no longer possessed him ("Be quiet" in this case). I say it seems just as likely that Bran's invasion of his mind simply traumatized Hodor enough to withdraw briefly from reality, which is why he ALSO seems to stop noticing the thunder at all, which Bran had not ordered him to do. This goes well with Bran's later observation that Hodor fears and loathes Bran's invasion of his mind and withdraws into a corner of his mind until Bran goes away. (Which doesn't get Bran to stop doing it, of course...one of the reasons why I lost sympathy for the character). I don't think that passage in the novel implies that Bran suddenly knows how to program a human mind with future commands just by entering it 'for half a heartbeat' when the novel isn't saying that was what Bran did.

Edited December 6, 2018 by screamin

[Happy Harpy]

1 hour ago, GraceK said:

I like how the Lion is engulfed in flames 😂😂😂

Die Cersei die (just, take your maybe new husband with you). It's weird how casual viewers probably expect her to croack before the NK and spoiler whore me would probably be surprised if she did.

56 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

When ice and fire meet, they make dragonglass.

Who is House Dragonglass? Because they're so totally end game :D

[WindyNights]

19 minutes ago, screamin said:

This is what you quoted earlier:
 

You said that it proved that Bran could instill commands in a human brain that the human was bound to obey ("Be quiet" in this case). I say it seems just as likely that Bran's invasion of his mind simply traumatized Hodor enough to withdraw briefly from reality, which is why he ALSO seems to stop noticing the thunder at all, which Bran had not ordered him to do. This goes well with Bran's later observation that Hodor fears and loathes Bran's invasion of his mind and withdraws into a corner of his mind until Bran goes away. (Which doesn't get Bran to stop doing it, of course...one of the reasons why I lost sympathy for the character). I don't think that passage in the novel implies that Bran suddenly knows how to program a human mind with future commands just by entering it 'for half a heartbeat' when the novel isn't saying that was what Bran did.

 

Bran is 10. -shrugs-

Anyways, he does it again in season 6.

"Hold the door."

Edited December 6, 2018 by WindyNights

[SimoneS]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

When ice and fire meet, they make dragonglass. 

No, they don't. Obsidian is volcanic rock that cools rapidly. It has nothing to do with ice. 

[screamin]

50 minutes ago, WindyNights said:

Bran is 10. -shrugs-

Anyways, he does it again in season 6.

"Hold the door."

 

Wasn't Brandon warged into Hodor at the time? I seem to recall that Bran was, in any case, being hauled along as total deadweight. So that's not an example of Bran either controlling a stranger at weirless distance (since poor Hodor was long since 'broken in' to Bran's warging use the way the ravens Bran used to practice on had been broken in to having a rider) or of Bran giving an order that the person he was 'riding' continued to obey after Bran stopped riding him (since Bran was apparently in a trance the whole time).

Anyway, since the supreme powers of a century of experience didn't give the Three Eyed Raven the capacity to notice when one human being in the small group right in freakin' front of him was engaging in hideously dangerous behavior that risked everyone, I really doubt we can assume that Bran can do a better job keeping track of thousands of humans' ill intentions against him if he did become king, even if he spent most of his life in trance.

Edited December 7, 2018 by screamin

[YaddaYadda]

33 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

No, they don't. Obsidian is volcanic rock that cools rapidly. It has nothing to do with ice. 

I'm talking about what I saw in the trailer. That looks like dragonglass/obsidian to me.

[SimoneS]

4 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

I'm talking about what I saw in the trailer. That looks like dragonglass/obsidian to me.

I agree that it is dragon glass in the trailer, but it isn't the ice and fire making it rather the fire (Team Targaryen) is using it as a weapon against the ice. 

[anamika]

That panel was a total waste of time. Nothing of importance was said and they basically just mentioned stuff we have heard a 100 times before. I guess it's all new to casual show watchers who went to see the actors. John Bradley looked totally bored.

Arya has some cool  kills next season. John Bradley reiterates his hate for Randyll Tarly by saying that if Sam could kill anyone on the show it would be him. Looks like Maisie did not get to keep Needle after all and Sophie was wrong about that.

Their last day of filming was 'filmed in ruins' - that's from FF. But if this is true, then it's likely referring to Maisie's last day on the KL set where she talked about being alone - Arya, alone, surveying a destroyed KL?

[nikma]

So Arya will will Cersei or Gregor or Night King. Or maybe even Tyrion.

 

I don't think that she will kill Euron or Qyburn. 

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

That panel was a total waste of time. Nothing of importance was said and they basically just mentioned stuff we have heard a 100 times before. I guess it's all new to casual show watchers who went to see the actors. John Bradley looked totally bored.

Arya has some cool  kills next season. John Bradley reiterates his hate for Randyll Tarly by saying that if Sam could kill anyone on the show it would be him. Looks like Maisie did not get to keep Needle after all and Sophie was wrong about that.

It's almost unheard of that we learn absolutely nothing new about an upcoming season in a panel with major cast and/or D&D, but they managed it this time. It's kind of amazing. Maybe Sophie will throw us a bone at her Dark Phoenix event tomorrow.

Maisie not getting to keep Needle is some bullshit.

Is it just me, or is the S8 promotional schedule so far a letdown? Even this new teaser seems pretty halfhearted and by the numbers. I don't expect a trailer at this point--and indeed D&D said the same thing I said upthread, that they can't release a trailer yet because they don't have the VFX done--but a little effort would be nice.

If they're just going to recycle old clips, I would love character-specific supercuts set to cool music--something like their Relive the Journey character featurettes on the Making Game of Thrones blog, but in music video form--but I guess those already exist on Youtube as fan works, and Youtube GOT fanvids in general are better than anything the HBO promo folks can come up with, like the watch-it-and-weep editing on this and this.

Quote

Their last day of filming was 'filmed in ruins' - that's from FF. But if this is true, then it's likely referring to Maisie's last day on the KL set where she talked about being alone - Arya, alone, surveying a destroyed KL?

Maisie's farewell Instagram post on July 7th with the hashtag #lastwomanstanding certainly implied that she was the last one, so it could be. On the other hand, Sapochnik didn't post his wrap message on Twitter until July 12th, so maybe she wasn't the last after all, and the last was Kit or Peter (who said he finished filming S8 in mid-July). Either way, it seems certain that the last scene was someone (Kit, Peter or Maisie) in the ruins of KL for 8x05.

Edited December 7, 2018 by Eyes High

[anamika]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Maisie's farewell Instagram post on July 7th with the hashtag #lastwomanstanding certainly implied that she was the last one, so it could be. On the other hand, Sapochnik didn't post his wrap message on Twitter until July 12th, so maybe she wasn't the last after all, and the last was Kit or Peter (who said he finished filming S8 in mid-July). Either way, it seems certain that the last scene was someone (Kit, Peter or Maisie) in the ruins of KL for 8x05.

Pretty sure that Maisie was the last actor who filmed from her post. The rest could be some filming of extras or background and production work, I would assume.

Well, looks like Arya at least survives and gets a happy ending....

[SeanC]

Not that I don’t personally assume Arya lives, but I expect Maisie is referring to the last scene she filmed as Arya.  She wouldn’t give away the character’s ending like that.

12 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Maisie not getting to keep Needle is some bullshit.

The descriptions of what props the cast got to keep generally seem pretty lame, compared to when they sent Rose off and gave her Ygritte’s bow.