S03.E19: Chapter Sixty-Three

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Jane seeks a favor from Fabian, but she finds it hard to ask since they're not on the same page regarding their relationship. Meanwhile, Petra and Rafael both ask Jane for advice; and Jane volunteers to help Xo and Rogelio, but she may be in over her head.

Promo:

[Primetimer]

And other not-quite-burning questions from this season's penultimate episode!

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[Simba122504]

"When I think of family, you're the one I see. This episode had a lot of great moments through out. I really enjoyed it. One of their best and one of my favorites so far. Jane is doing what Rafael did in S2 without the marriage and who's she/he is going to choose. It had all the things that makes JTV great.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Simba122504
I meant "without."

[AnushkaR]

I enjoyed this episode very much. I liked that they did a recap of all the terrible things Petra did to Rafael just to remind us once again how bad they truly were. 

This episode had two of my favorite moments from this season. That drunk Jane/Xiomara scene was gold. It is so different from their last bachelorette party. My second favorite scene was the Jane and Rafael phone conversation. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Dear Alba,

Please quit applying your standards to other people's decisions. Yes, marriage is a a holy sacrament to people who are religious. But it's NOT a holy sacrament to people who aren't religious, and that means not everyone needs to get married in a church. Having a non-religious officiant doesn't make a marriage any less valid. As long as that signed marriage license gets turned in to the county clerk, a marriage is real so QUIT BEING SO FUCKING JUDGMENTAL.

Sincerely,
Someone who didn't get married in a church by a priest and is perfectly fine going to hell for "only" getting legally married

While I agree with Jane that her parents were not great the first time around and they're now happy, there's a big difference between Xo getting pregnant and not telling Rogelio she was keeping the baby versus Petra who slept with Rafael's best friend, lied about Rafael hitting her, stole his last bit of sperm to impregnate herself, and has lied/schemed against him multiple times. Yes, she had a shitty childhood and yes, she isn't as terrible anymore but I feel like she has betrayed Rafael far more than Xo did to Rogelio. Realistically, I know that a lot of times people date when they know they shouldn't so maybe this will work out? Naaaaaah, it's just reactivating the Petra/Rafael/Jane triangle!

I'm glad Jane was able to make up with Fabian (at least until she punched him in the face). I think Jane is so used to being right that realizing (1) she screwed up by lying to Fabian and (2) she let her fear of being left out influence her opinion about Rafael/Petra reuniting was a lot for her to deal with. But in her defense re: Rafael & Petra, I agree with Petra's reasons for not wanting to screw up the good relationship that they have now. For a normal couple who are coparenting, I'd agree with that anyway but considering how much they have been through, that goes double for them. And I also agree with Jane's assessment of her conversation with Petra - she just let Petra do all the talking (which was just a list of reasons why she shouldn't be with Rafael again) and then she said, "That makes a lot of sense." That's about as neutral as you can get without saying anything.

I'm not thrilled about Rafael and Petra reuniting but I was pretty sure it was going to happen sooner or later. It was very sweet to hear Rafael say that Jane is family. I love how supportive they are of each other and what good friends they are now. I hope that Rafael and Petra dating again won't screw that all up.

So how is Chuck going to take this news? Even though I wasn't fond of douchetastic Chuck, I liked when Petra/Rafael/Jane were all happily not dating each other. I will miss that.

I was totally fine with Jean & Luc quitting. Yes, Xo is 40 but if she wants to wear a big poofy dress and have a fairy tale wedding with a horse drawn carriage, then that's up to her. I don't want to sound like I support bridezilla mentality because I do NOT, but at the same time it's YOUR wedding so do what you want. If you want to get married wearing clown costumes while riding giraffes, that's your prerogative. A wedding planner's job is to make it happen, not to be snotty and judgmental about what you want. Xo was better off not having those two guys looking down on her the whole time.

[lavenderrose]

Loved this episode.

- Xo and Ro getting married was inevitable. Apart or not, they're funny together.

- I've never liked Petra as a character and I hate that this show tries to draw empathy for her character. Yes she grew up in a shitty household, but that shouldn't mean that she can do whatever horrible thing she devises in her mind. I'm glad that they at least outlined all of the terrible things she did to Rafael. He's given her a lot of leeway even though him being angry or even hostile towards her would be justified. He's the real hero and I hate that he fell for her again. Rafael deserves better and while I ship Jane and Rafael, I wouldn't mind if they bring in another love interest; someone who can see how great he really is without judging or manipulating him all of the time. I NEVER like the male love interest in shows/books/movies more than the heroine so this is a first for me.

- The drunk conversation between Xo and Jane was cute.

- Drunk Jane is more insightful than sober Jane.

- Finally Jane's heart glowed for Rafael. When she opened the door only to see Xo and Ro was funny to me. This whole story line is a repeat of Jane/Rafael/Michael which is hilarious because now Jane is on the other side. She's no longer the center of a triangle and it's killing her. Good.

- The kids were adorable. Rafael is such a good dad. I actually remember reading something here on this website that Mateo would be devastated after Michael's passing because he lost a primary caregiver. I cracked up reading that. Rafael constantly got the short end of the stick when it came to being involved in Mateo's life.

[Joana]

So the finale is next week? I'm going to watch it and wrap it up. The direction this show is taking can't be more obvious now and it's not something I'm particularly interested in.

I used to truly love this show, but for a while now I've had trouble really caring about most of the stuff that happens there. I feel like the things I've loved the most about the show have been removed or significantly reduced, while the things I didn't really care for got umped to the max. And most importantly, it's just not as funny as it was. 

But hey, it's not the first time it's happened and certainly won't be the last. At least it was really good while it lasted. 

[FireFoxy]

I am LOVING this season. I am glad Xo and Ro finally got their ish together and can be together and happy. We have a nice Petra/Jane relationship. And I am glad Jane is finally on the other side of the triangle. I knew Jane/Raf would be endgame since the first episode, I've watched enough telenovelas to know how it goes. I am really liking their approach to it. Good job, show!

[DeathQuaker]

Welp, I was wrong about Magda. Ah well. Sorry. So the question remains--was "Bracelet Lady" Rose (which seems randomly and stupidly sloppy of her) or the real Eileen (which we saw briefly the first time she appeared)? (They'd still have reason to arrest Rose for Emilio and Michael's murders, as the connection to Scott is rather tenuous.)

Also, someone remind me: how did they all find out about Rose's being alive with a fake face anyway? "Susanna" revealed herself to Luisa only at a time when Rose was otherwise believed dead, and then they promptly ran away to the submarine, so no one should have actually known. Did Luisa tell someone? I don't remember. And I realize many might not care, but it's bothering me I can't remember. On to other things...

Is it bad my favorite moment of this episode was when Jane punched Fabian? I don't dislike him (though I didn't like how he behaved this episode), but that moment was strangely cathartic.

I'd much rather have speckled horses than pure white. They're way cooler and more unique looking. (For some reason it's important to me I express this opinion publicly.)

Unpopular opinion, but I like Raf with Petra. They both used to be horrible and are both becoming more human and I like their relationship, as complicated as it is. I believe people who have done bad things can change and do good things and be good. (If people can't change, grow, and improve, we're all screwed.)

Meanwhile, I kind of want Jane to end up with no one, just be a happily single successful author and mom.

Loved the two-woman hen night. The rest of the wedding plot I find frustrating and draggy.

Edited May 16, 2017 by DeathQuaker
clarification

[SixFeetOver]

Did I miss a plot-point or episode in which it was suggested that Rafael might not be the father of Petra's twins? If he were their bio-dad, then wouldn't they be even a little bit darker (physically)? 

Edited May 16, 2017 by SixFeetOver

[Joana]

7 minutes ago, SixFeetOver said:

Did I miss a plot-point or episode in which it was suggested that Rafael might not be the father of Petra's twins? If he were their bio-dad, then wouldn't they be even a little bit darker (physically)? 

No, there was never even a hint of that. There was some possibility/speculation (among the viewers, not on the show itself) at the time that the father would turn out to be Aaron/whatshisname (Rafael's supposed best friend and Petra's former lover), but since he's actually even darker than Rafael, the twins being angelic blondes would make even less sense. 

There was no mention of Petra having a sexual partner other than that. It would be a huge retcon at this point and I highly doubt they'd go there. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Joana
clarification

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Recessive genes explain the twins being blonde and fair skinned. I don't require any further explanation!

[AnushkaR]

 Rafael and Petra are not going to work out because they are not what the other wants. It's not just a matter of the past. There is a reason all of Rafael’s cozy family moments come from Jane and Mateo. Last episode Rafael said when he thinks of family she is who he sees. Rafael lived his life without any kind of love and warmth. So he craves that desperately. He wants that white picket fence house with his loving family. Petra is a pretty cold character. It's not a flaw, that's just who she is. She is not what Rafael desires. He admires her. He is attracted to her. But she is not the type of person Rafael can be happy with. I am glad they are doing this again so they can realize this once and for all. 

[tennisgurl]

I was really hoping it would be Magda, I miss that crazy old manipulator. But at least they've arrested Sin Rosta now, and I hope her ass stays in jail. She killed Michael! I will cut a bitch!

I'm glad that Xo and Ro are finally getting married, they're cute together. I love how the narrator keeps reminding us about about their many failed attempts at couple hood! Speaking of, I don't know about Raf and Petra trying again. I used to root for them, but now they're in such a good place as friends and co-parents, I would hate to see that get screwed up. They just don't work as a couple, they're just too different. Petra is ambitious and wants to basically rule the world, and Raf wants a nice home with a nice family and a more quiet life. I was also super scared his cancer was going to come back for a second there. Don't scare me!

Jane and Petra are really great as friends, I like when they get along the best. I know that inevitably Jane/Raf will be endgame, so I hope that they're friendship can survive the inevitable.

[SixFeetOver]

33 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Recessive genes explain the twins being blonde and fair skinned. I don't require any further explanation!

That does make sense. I just figured that since it's a rare outcome -- and this show is so soapy --- that it would have been done for plot reasons. 

[Simba122504]

2 hours ago, SixFeetOver said:

Did I miss a plot-point or episode in which it was suggested that Rafael might not be the father of Petra's twins? If he were their bio-dad, then wouldn't they be even a little bit darker (physically)? 

Not on show, but just fan speculation. If there was a who's the daddy storyline, we would have seen Petra with other guys. We seen onscreen that she stole his last sample. Yeah, it definitely would be a retcon if Rafael wasn't the bio father. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Simba122504

[cardigirl]

2 hours ago, DeathQuaker said:

Unpopular opinion, but I like Raf with Petra. They both used to be horrible and are both becoming more human and I like their relationship, as complicated as it is. I believe people who have done bad things can change and do good things and be good. (If people can't change, grow, and improve, we're all screwed.)

Meanwhile, I kind of want Jane to end up with no one, just be a happily single successful author and mom.

Loved the two-woman hen night. The rest of the wedding plot I find frustrating and draggy.

 

I totally agree with you and even go so far as to say the heart-light that Jane felt wasn't a rekindled romantic love for Raf, but just realizing she has a place in his life and she likes it.  Honestly, I didn't think romantic things about that scene until I read the review here.  So I wasn't crushed or anything when her parents were at the door instead of Rafael. 

Jane being with Rafael at the end of the story seems too traditional.  I would love to see the show go in another direction.  I think they've shown beautifully what co-parenting can be like and I love that aspect of the show.  

But, I have to agree that it does seem that this is the pathway they are taking Jane on, to be with Rafael for the rest of her days. 

My favorite scene this week was the real wild goose chase!  Hahahahahaha ha!

[FireFoxy]

  3 hours ago, DeathQuaker said:

Unpopular opinion, but I like Raf with Petra. They both used to be horrible and are both becoming more human and I like their relationship, as complicated as it is. I believe people who have done bad things can change and do good things and be good. (If people can't change, grow, and improve, we're all screwed.)

Meanwhile, I kind of want Jane to end up with no one, just be a happily single successful author and mom.

Loved the two-woman hen night. The rest of the wedding plot I find frustrating and draggy.

 

I totally agree with you and even go so far as to say the heart-light that Jane felt wasn't a rekindled romantic love for Raf, but just realizing she has a place in his life and she likes it.  Honestly, I didn't think romantic things about that scene until I read the review here.  So I wasn't crushed or anything when her parents were at the door instead of Rafael. 

Jane being with Rafael at the end of the story seems too traditional.  I would love to see the show go in another direction.  I think they've shown beautifully what co-parenting can be like and I love that aspect of the show.  

But, I have to agree that it does seem that this is the pathway they are taking Jane on, to be with Rafael for the rest of her days. 

My favorite scene this week was the real wild goose chase!  Hahahahahaha ha!

Nah, it was totally romantic. We have been getting those undertones from Jane for a few episodes, especially last week's when her face fell after she invited Rafael to her dad's event and he declined. They are reviving the triangle with Jane in Rafael's place which is refreshing.

[cardigirl]

14 minutes ago, FireFoxy said:

Nah, it was totally romantic. We have been getting those undertones from Jane for a few episodes, especially last week's when her face fell after she invited Rafael to her dad's event and he declined. They are reviving the triangle with Jane in Rafael's place which is refreshing.

 

Not to me, but then, I'm not hoping for that outcome, so maybe I haven't been seeing it.  I liked the scene last week (I think it was) when Raf and Jane were texting each other while trying to get Mateo to sleep.  It was sweet, but I didn't get romantic from it because I'm not looking for it.  We'll see what happens. 

Plus, if they do want Jane and Rafael to be the endgame, and they are putting Rafael and Petra together, that means something bad is going to have to happen to Petra to clear the way for Jane.  I'm not a fan of that.

[AnushkaR]

Jane Rafael stuff was there since Catalina episode. I won't get into it since these come from a not so legal leak. 

[JamieLynn832002]

5 hours ago, DeathQuaker said:

Also, someone remind me: how did they all find out about Rose's being alive with a fake face anyway? "Susanna" revealed herself to Luisa only at a time when Rose was otherwise believed dead, and then they promptly ran away to the submarine, so no one should have actually known. Did Luisa tell someone? I don't remember. And I realize many might not care, but it's bothering me I can't remember. On to other things...

I think they found powdered donut wrappers or residue at or near the scene of Michael's shooting and said something about knowing any killers who liked them and Rafael said he knew one. 

[NeenerNeener]

8 hours ago, SixFeetOver said:

Did I miss a plot-point or episode in which it was suggested that Rafael might not be the father of Petra's twins? If he were their bio-dad, then wouldn't they be even a little bit darker (physically)? 

The blonde hair/fair skin genes aren't necessarily recessive. My family heritage is Irish, and my SIL's is Scandinavian. My dark-haired brother's kids are all blondes like their mom. We make jokes about the Vikings invading Ireland again.

[Simba122504]

21 hours ago, cardigirl said:

Not to me, but then, I'm not hoping for that outcome, so maybe I haven't been seeing it.  I liked the scene last week (I think it was) when Raf and Jane were texting each other while trying to get Mateo to sleep.  It was sweet, but I didn't get romantic from it because I'm not looking for it.  We'll see what happens. 

Plus, if they do want Jane and Rafael to be the endgame, and they are putting Rafael and Petra together, that means something bad is going to have to happen to Petra to clear the way for Jane.  I'm not a fan of that.

Nothing bad has to happen to Petra. Let R/P realize it's just not meant to be. She doesn't have to die for that. It's clear J/R are the endgame and have always been the endgame. I liked Petra and Chuck. They didn't even mention him this week. Next week is the season finale. J/R are clearly not hooking up soon. Something I read awhile back probably changed and will probably happen in S4 not S3. 

Edited May 17, 2017 by Simba122504

[Joana]

I have a feeling that Luisa is going to use the information that Rafael is not a Solano by birth against him in the next episode and dread it already. 

[Bouffe]

I enjoyed this episode a lot!

Drunk!Jane! was AWESOME! That whole scene between rafael, drunk Jane and Petra was very sweet and very well done. I love that both R an P asked J if she was drunk... LOL  Gina played the whole "I want you but I feel guilty I told you not to be with P so go with P even tho I want you" extremely well. And with all the "when I think of family I see you" speech (which was so so vey sweet), I was really expecting Rafael to be knocking on Jane's door. But I know that they need a few more distractions for Rafael before he gets with Jane again... 

Where the heck is Chuck?

I am glad the whole Fabian thing is over. I was not really a fan of that. Although I guess Jane had to go through something like that to realize casual sex might not be for her.

I LOVE Petra and Jane's friendship. I hope whatever happens in this love triangle that the two women will remain supportive of one another.

[BkWurm1]

Hee!  Was watching Stephen Colbert tonight and GR was on it.  Apparently the stripper in this episode in real life is GR's boyfriend!  (They bumped into each other six months after he first appeared on the show as a stripper)  Lol.  Makes that scene even funnier. 

[BkWurm1]

This season has been well done.  I've loved how they've built up Jane and Rafael friendship.  I wasn't a Jane and Michael shipper but I also wasn't a Jane and Rafael shipper and yet they got me on board this season.  Even before Michael died it became apparent that as much as Jane loved Micheal, they were far from perfect as a couple, but it was subtly done without lessening the importance of what they had together.  

And where did they find such cute kid actors?  Cause the ones on soooo many other shows are just awful.  

[Anisky]

18 hours ago, SixFeetOver said:

Did I miss a plot-point or episode in which it was suggested that Rafael might not be the father of Petra's twins? If he were their bio-dad, then wouldn't they be even a little bit darker (physically)? 

This doesn't seem strange to me. For one thing, Petra is pretty fair. It's very common for pale kids to have blond hair, even light blond hair, as a young child, and then have it darken to brown as they get older. It happened to both me and my sister. So if they mostly inherited Petra's coloring, I'd expect them to have lighter hair at their age than they'll have when they're older (and thus, lighter hair than Petra has now).

For another, when parents have different coloring from each other (or even parents who have similar coloring but one or both of THEM had parents with different coloring), how that is expressed in their children's phenotypes is known for varying widely. I mean, these two women are twins. Obviously, that's an extreme example, but coloring among mixed-ethnicity full siblings is much more variable than a lot of people assume. Noticeably closer coloring to one parent than the other, instead of a smooth 50-50 blend, is pretty common. 

I'm feeling pretty neutral right now about the whole Jane/Rafael thing. I don't know. It depends on how they handle it. I'm not really feeling Rafael/Petra, but I do agree with other people who said that Jane on the "outside" of the triangle while Rafael is in the central position might be refreshing. If they have to have another love triangle, then I'm more interested in seeing Jane experience being one of the two people vying for the one. It will show us (and Jane) what she's made of. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

1 hour ago, Anisky said:

when parents have different coloring from each other (or even parents who have similar coloring but one or both of THEM had parents with different coloring), how that is expressed in their children's phenotypes is known for varying widely. I mean, these two women are twins. Obviously, that's an extreme example, but coloring among mixed-ethnicity full siblings is much more variable than a lot of people assume. Noticeably closer coloring to one parent than the other, instead of a smooth 50-50 blend, is pretty common. 

Yes, all true! I think maybe some other people don't completely understand how recessive genes work. Petra has blonde hair and blue eyes, both of which are recessive so she is xx for each of those traits. Rafael has dark hair and dark eyes which are dominant traits so he is either XX or Xx. With basic Mendelian genetic, if Rafael is Xx, his kid has a 75% chance of being xx. With hair and eye color, there's also the chance that they will have a blend (in this case, light brown hair and hazel eyes) rather than being limited to dark hair, blonde hair, blue eyes, or brown eyes. Mr. EB's mom has black hair and brown eyes while his dad has brown hair and brown eyes. Mr. EB has light brown hair and green/hazel eyes. His brother has blonde hair and blue eyes. His sister has dark brown hair and brown eyes. And yes, we know that all three of them have the same two parents (no illicit affairs) because they look exactly like various relatives on his dad's side of the family.

Whenever I watch shows set in ye olden tymes, I always feel bad for anyone who got stuck with recessive genes because they didn't know about recessive genes at the time so they didn't get how two dark haired parents could produce a kid with blonde or red hair and everyone just assumed the kid was a bastard or a devil child.

[AnushkaR]

On 5/16/2017 at 2:43 PM, cardigirl said:

I totally agree with you and even go so far as to say the heart-light that Jane felt wasn't a rekindled romantic love for Raf, but just realizing she has a place in his life and she likes it.  Honestly, I didn't think romantic things about that scene until I read the review here.  So I wasn't crushed or anything when her parents were at the door instead of Rafael. 

 

Jennie Urman confirmed that Jane's heart glowed because her feelings for Rafael were returning. 

[AudienceofOne]

Good God that episode was wonderful. They even sold me on the horror of a Petra/ Raf reconciliation even though I know that's a horror show. 

Jane almost made me cry. Almost. I'm totally chopping onions y'all.