S04.E03: Fun in the Shun

[OnceSane]

Quote

Jeremiah needs alone time with Carmela to help their marriage; Rebecca's arrival in Florida creates upheaval for everyone's vacation; Sabrina learns the fate of her parental rights to Oakley and worries that her newborn child will also be taken.

[realityobserver]

[Annb67]

On 5/13/2017 at 10:43 PM, realityobserver said:

Ha!!! Hysterical?

[CarolMK]

These episodes are getting way too long. I can't finish them in one night, have to DVR them. So Jeremiah and Carmela are talking about her getting her tied tubes reversed so they can have a baby together? And he already has 3 kids and she has 4? The two of them are quietly out of their minds. While I don't always think Abe is the sharpest tool in the shed, I agreed with him when he said that the two of them should work on their marriage, not try for kids.

Trying to figure out why Abe went to Florida. to keep an eye on Mary's gambling problem or just to get a little vacation? And now Rebecca's going too. 

[silverspoons]

37 minutes ago, CarolMK said:

These episodes are getting way too long. I can't finish them in one night, have to DVR them. 

I agree 3 hours is too much. I only caught part of the episode live. Sabrina rights were terminated? That seems really fast? I had a co-worker who fostered twins and was hoping to adopt them. It took five years for the courts to decide about terminating the mom's rights and the mom was in and out of jail for drugs during that time. I think if the rights are really terminated there is no way Sabrina will ever get her life back (not that I want to see a toddler with an addict). 

I wish they wouldn't ,make  up these storylines in order to film together. how can Abe need to go on a road trip with his mom when Abe and Rebecca are complaining about never getting to see one another because of his trucking job. Also the cost of the time off and now Rebecca coming down to FL cost money, maybe not first class travel but if Abe is in such dire need of dental work , every penny should count. 

Dont even get started about more kids for Jeremiah.  Not only do they have 7 kids and no money, but every other sentence is how they are having marriage problems. 

I would much rather see Sabrina's struggle, Rebecca trying to get a GED, and Abe trying to get a better job with benefits. All these we decided to take a surprise trip to FL or NY is so fake and worse then scripted tv. 

Edited May 15, 2017 by silverspoons

[gonecrackers]

7 hours ago, CarolMK said:

So Jeremiah and Carmela are talking about her getting her tied tubes reversed so they can have a baby together? And he already has 3 kids and she has 4? The two of them are quietly out of their minds.

It's easy to keep popping them out when others are taking care of them. Jeremiah hardly ever sees his kids - can he even pay child support on all of them? I don't know about others but I couldn't leave mine to go fair hopping selling donuts & filming reality TV in FL for months at a time, so Carmela isn't working too hard at parenting either. If they have one they'll be divorced shortly after most likely. The worst thing you can do with marital problems is have a baby. And she already has to deal with Jeremiah treating her like crap. That certainly isn't going to get any better with the stress of a new baby.

I haven't seen this epi yet & am sorry to hear Sabrina's rights were terminated. That seems extreme to me; she's not in her care & she's a newly recovering addict who will slip. Maybe it's because she's making excuses & not taking responsibility, because that would not impress a judge or those watching her. This isn't looking good for her life. I wonder what happens to the new one then.

The Florida trip thing is just a ratings ploy but it's downright stupid & I'm sick of Mary's antics. She says she 'loves' being Amish but it doesn't go beyond cooking & costuming. She certainly doesn't want to live by their rules, constantly disses them on TV, & could care less about making her husband's life a little easier who could easily be shunned thanks to HER. So she's not 'Amish' & does not want to be 'Amish'. She's a very selfish, immature old lady who looks & acts like a fool.

Edited May 15, 2017 by gonecrackers

[TurtlePower]

29 minutes ago, gonecrackers said:

It's easy to keep popping them out when others are taking care of them. Jeremiah hardly ever sees his kids - can he even pay child support on all of them? I don't know about others but I couldn't leave mine to go fair hopping selling donuts & filming reality TV in FL for months at a time, so Carmela isn't working too hard at parenting either. If they have one they'll be divorced shortly after most likely. The worst thing you can do with marital problems is have a baby. And she already has to deal with Jeremiah treating her like crap. That certainly isn't going to get any better with the stress of a new baby.

I haven't seen this epi yet & am sorry to hear Sabrina's rights were terminated. That seems extreme to me; she's not in her care & she's a newly recovering addict who will slip. Maybe it's because she's making excuses & not taking responsibility, because that would not impress a judge or those watching her. This isn't looking good for her life. I wonder what happens to the new one then.

The Florida trip thing is just a ratings ploy but it's downright stupid & I'm sick of Mary's antics. She says she 'loves' being Amish but it doesn't go beyond cooking & costuming. She certainly doesn't want to live by their rules, constantly disses them on TV, & could care less about making her husband's life a little easier who could easily be shunned thanks to HER. So she's not 'Amish' & does not want to be 'Amish'. She's a very selfish, immature old lady who looks & acts like a fool.

Well, in the last episode she let it slip that it was "crap" she had to put her unborn child's needs first regarding the hospital birth. Willing to bet she's dependent on her "medication" (addicts love using that word and that it came from a doctor so 'it can't harm anything'), so she's still battling addiction and she's exposing her baby to the drug. Sabrina needs to hit her rock bottom for her to wake up and see what she's doing. 

[gonecrackers]

1 minute ago, TurtlePower said:

Well, in the last episode she let it slip that it was "crap" she had to put her unborn child's needs first regarding the hospital birth.

She actually said ' it's crap, but...', so she was acknowledging that they said it was best, however, she didn't want to do what was best; she just really had no other choice.

It's beyond stupid to be on a reality show when she's having these major issues in her life. She probably has no other source of income but really, talking about all this on camera shows she's not in her right mind.

[TurtlePower]

1 minute ago, gonecrackers said:

She actually said ' it's crap, but...', so she was acknowledging that they said it was best, however, she didn't want to do what was best; she just really had no other choice.

It's beyond stupid to be on a reality show when she's having these major issues in her life. She probably has no other source of income but really, talking about all this on camera shows she's not in her right mind.

I said this in the Abe topic, but she needs to spend months in a rehab facility. She's still dependent on methadone so she's gone from one addiction to another. And since the methadone is prescribed, it's easier for her to make excuses for continued use.  

[SunnyBeBe]

I was disappointed to see Sabrina's male friend encouraging her to try to keep the children.  I'm not sure why they were discussing getting Oakley back, because Sabrina said that her parental rights were terminated regarding Oakley. If this is true, Sabrina has no say so over it.   She's now worried the same thing will happen with her unborn baby.  It seems, that she is trying to now propose that her parents adopt the baby and perhaps Oakley too.  That might be a better option, because Sabrina has not proven to be responsible enough to protect her daughter. This pity and pep talk tends to make Sabrina feel better, but, it doesn't address the children's needs.  That's what is really important.

  Her issues aren't just drug addiction, but, refusal to abide by court orders, failure to protect Oakley, placing Oakley in harm's way and using poor judgment regarding the child's safety and welfare.  She also pretty much made a case against herself by getting pregnant by a man , who is prohibited to be around Oakley without court supervision.  It's like she was really working against herself.  Recovering drug addicts are advised to not hang with using drug addicts.  This is another problem that she struggles with.  Sabrina seems so desperate for companionship, that she grabs on to totally unsuitable characters .  She visited with the Pastor of a church that seemed to be quite supportive, but, then said she didn't plan to return.  Why not? It seems that a person who needs support would garner it from a positive group of people, instead of associating with criminals, using drug addicts and violent people.  She just doesn't seem to have good judgment.

I think that Jeremiah and his wife are two of the most immature and sad people that I have seen on reality tv.  If they broke the news that they wanted to have a baby together, I would have asked them what kind of life a child would have living with their fighting, verbal put downs, psychological issues, etc.  Jeremiah seems to suffer from paranoia and Carmilla seems to be obsessed by being cursed by her former cult.  There's so much damage that needs healing.  Plus, Carmilla said that they were both not doing well due to lack of sleep. A baby would mean the same thing.  Plus, she had that severe digestion problem.  I can't imagine how that would impact a pregnancy.  Both of their maturity levels seem to be of teenagers.   

Edited May 15, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Bunky]

I can't help myself with this show. I just can't not watch it.

That said, it's so frustrating. I guess Sabrina rents her house with TLC money? I spent quite a bit of wasted time trying to figure out how someone, who in no way has their life together and no real job, lives in such a decent little house. Maybe the show rents it for her, I don't know. She needs so much professional help, it's painful to watch. She should not be a parent. I do feel some empathy for her but it's just sad for everyone involved.

I also assume Jeremiah and Carmela will be using TLC money to fund their IVF? I don't know if they realize how expensive that is and that it's not covered by insurance (or if it is, the coverage is usually quite minimal). Between the two of them they already have like six kids and a grand kid. Jeremiah doesn't even seem to have custody of his kids. Maybe it's time for them to stop. Or maybe I'm just annoyed at how easy it seems to be for these people to continuously pop out kids.

I don't even know what to say about Mary.  

I will say that I don't find Rebecca as annoying as many on here do. I think she has grown as a person and seems to manage her household well. During the GED segment, I actually thought she articulated her understanding of what geography was quite well for someone with very little knowledge. I believe she is intelligent, just so sadly uneducated. I don't know if her GED tutor is camera shy or a jerk but he seemed frustrated by her lack of knowledge and that annoyed me. He should be facilitating her learning, which she is eager to do, and not be looking pissed all the time. Also, is Abe the father of both of Rebecca's kids?  I can't remember. 

[winsomeone]

Mary is just plain nasty acting at times, for a woman her age.

[CarolMK]

Abe is the father of both of Rebecca's kids, this was confirmed awhile ago.

I finished watching this morning and all I can say about Mary is, I've lost respect for her. I actually admired the way she was trying to run a bed and breakfast a couple of years ago and I really don't see why her elders would have had a problem with that. I know in Lancaster there are several B & B's run by Amish families. But the drinking, pole dancing and driving a Trans Am- not just a car, a sports car, no less- it's pretty obvious Mary doesn't want to be Amish at all.And by dressing in the Amish clothes, she is showing disrespect to that community, in my opinion.

Sabrina appears to be off on her own. Was she really actually friends with Abe and Rebecca or were they simply castmates put together for the sake of the show? I do feel bad for her, and I don't know if she fully realizes what's been happening to her. She comes across as possibly slow, if not drugged. It would very likely be a good thing for her to find a church that she feels comfortable with if she's not allowed to be Mennonite anymore.  She needs a stable support system. Also, if there is any way for her parents to adopt Oakley, that would be the best solution for all involved. My friend from high school and her husband had to adopt their grandson for the same reason, his daughter was and continues to be a heroin addict and is living in a motel with a man who works sporadically but it also an addict. They let her visit her son at their home, which was allowed in court orders, but the boyfriend isn't allowed in their house at all or to be around this child. 

Jeremiah and Carmela are going to wind up divorced. And Jeremiah is headed for a full fledged nervous breakdown if he hasn't had one already. Where was he living in the past couple of years before he met Carmela? In the trailer home? It seemed like he was living with Mary and Chester for awhile and that caused friction with Abe and Rebecca. I don't blame them for not liking it. 

[realityobserver]

"When we were growing up Amish....blah blah blah"

"When I was growing up in the cult...blah blah blah"

Every other sentence starts with their total and wide eyed realization that the world is different than being 17th century religious fanatics and brainwashed cult followers. I think after 4 seasons of this foolishness, we get it...

How come when Rebecca decides to go to Florida she claims the weather is extreme (as in cold and wintertime), yet when we see Andrew and Katieann with the horse in the barn (talking about mom being in Florida), if you look out the barn door there are green leaves on the trees ? And neither one of them seems cold, in fact they have on light jackets...

Going on a boat ride with these idiots is a real downer obviously, Jeremiah Raber (Buzzkill) is a moron...

Where in the hell do they get the time away from work and the money to go to Florida in the first place ? Again, I have mentioned this before many times, when does Abe actually work ? A lot of people have reasoned on various discussion boards the reasons we never see him work, but to me they all fall flat, what about Sabrina and money, Mary and her cash flow?  Buzz and his donut stand can't possibly raise the cash to buy 2 Florida properties and then take the winter off in the south.

Building the deck at Buzz's trailer, Abe cuts one board and then it's time for a break and a long talk about women.... Then the announcer says the deck is done and off to the Vegas for the Amish in Sarasota... What a laugh...

Still cannot stand to listen to the constant whine coming out of Sabrina's mouth, I am forced to fast forward through her ridiculous situation that she put herself in, don't care and don't really want to know...

2 hour episodes ? If they would cut out the sad music for Sabrina and the joyous music for Florida, the B roll shots of blurred out Amish folks walking down the street and riding their bikes, the 'coming up next after the commercial' teasers, the other B roll shots of 'before this episode' this is what it used to be like... Cut out all the unnecessary crap and you get about 30 minutes of actual usable film... 

B-roll shots explained here

Almost to the point of not wanting to watch this POS show anymore... But then I won't get to see all the drama and crisis being played out...

Edited May 15, 2017 by realityobserver
bold

[Complexity]

22 minutes ago, realityobserver said:

2 hour episodes ? If they would cut out the sad music for Sabrina and the joyous music for Florida, the B roll shots of blurred out Amish folks walking down the street and riding their bikes, the 'coming up next after the commercial' teasers, the other B roll shots of 'before this episode' this is what it used to be like... Cut out all the unnecessary crap and you get about 30 minutes of actual usable film... 

The episodes on TLCgo.com are just under 90 minutes with commercials. I guess the additional 30 minutes is full of more commercials? I don't know.

The best part of watching it online is being able to start/stop/skip the video whenever I want. I tend to watch about 15-30 minutes at a sitting and then stop it. I find it hard to sit still to watch TV for longer than that, especially when watching this show.

[bichonblitz]

Carmela is a piece of work. She's complaining Jeremiah doesn't spend enough time with her having fun because he's always spending his time on trying to get the house finished,  then she complains to Mary about the living conditions in that tiny trailer that they have to live in and she can't take much more of living like that (it does sound really disgusting and uncomfortable) so what exactly in the fuckity fuck does she want?  Nice home or Fun? Apparently you can't have both with Jeremiah. 

[realityobserver]

1 minute ago, Complexity said:

The best part of watching it online is being able to start/stop/skip the video whenever I want. I tend to watch about 15-30 minutes at a sitting and then stop it.

I record it on DVR, then FF through all the commercials...

 

2 minutes ago, Complexity said:

I find it hard to sit still to watch TV for longer than that, especially when watching this show.

Amen to that...

[bichonblitz]

24 minutes ago, realityobserver said:

Where in the hell do they get the time away from work and the money to go to Florida in the first place ?

TLC must pay a whole lot better than any of us think. It's also the only reason I can figure why Chester puts up with Mary's shenanigans. 

[realityobserver]

1 minute ago, bichonblitz said:

so what exactly in the fuckity fuck does she want?  Nice home or Fun? Apparently you can't have both with Jeremiah. 

Well put...LOL... With Jeremiah, you have to have a full prescription of Thorazine....

[Complexity]

9 minutes ago, realityobserver said:

I record it on DVR, then FF through all the commercials...

The last I looked, adding DVR to my cable plan would be very expensive. So I just use on demand. When commercials appear, I jump to another window and read messages, posts, and various other things.

Plus, I prefer being able to move my laptop into any room I want to watch TV rather than being stuck in the room with a DVR (there's nothing like watching Jeremiah or Sabrina while sitting on the toilet! ?). It works for me. ?

[realityobserver]

6 minutes ago, Complexity said:

(there's nothing like watching Jeremiah or Sabrina while sitting on the toilet! ?). It works for me. ?

?

[silverspoons]

1 hour ago, Complexity said:

The last I looked, adding DVR to my cable plan would be very expensive. So I just use on demand. When commercials appear, I jump to another window and read messages, posts, and various other things.

I live in an area with cable that doesn't have demand or ability to login to most channels apps. There are DVR's that are not from the cable company or TiVo. I have 3 of the stand alone DVR's , the oldest is over 10 years old and they work great. No monthly fees and are the same as the cable company charges $26 a month for plus mine are up to 1tb so I have lots of old shows saved from over the years. Walmart sells them online only. I believe the cable and satellite companies bought some sort of rights to the majority of manufactuers so people think they have to rent one. I think magnovox and pioneer are the 2 companies left tha make the ones without fees. 

I sure could not watch this show or much of TLC wit commercials. 

[Complexity]

19 minutes ago, silverspoons said:

I live in an area with cable that doesn't have demand or ability to login to most channels apps. There are DVR's that are not from the cable company or TiVo. I have 3 of the stand alone DVR's , the oldest is over 10 years old and they work great. No monthly fees and are the same as the cable company charges $26 a month for plus mine are up to 1tb so I have lots of old shows saved from over the years. Walmart sells them online only. I believe the cable and satellite companies bought some sort of rights to the majority of manufactuers so people think they have to rent one. I think magnovox and pioneer are the 2 companies left tha make the ones without fees. 

Is your cable company not listed as one of the companies on the TLCgo.com list? And they don't have a website with on demand? That's no fun. Which cable company are you using?

I'm using Xfinity. They scramble all of the stations so you have to use their DVR that unscrambles the channels in order to record anything. So while I like their online on demand (which often excludes commercials or allows me to fast forward through them), I don't like that they require I use only their equipment for recording.

Kinda sucks how cable companies impose themselves on our ability to watch the Return to Amish Fun in the Shun episode (gotta stay on topic! LOL!).

[Evil Queen]

9 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

I haven't seen this epi yet & am sorry to hear Sabrina's rights were terminated. That seems extreme to me; she's not in her care & she's a newly recovering addict who will slip. Maybe it's because she's making excuses & not taking responsibility, because that would not impress a judge or those watching her. This isn't looking good for her life. I wonder what happens to the new one then.

8 hours ago, gonecrackers said:

She actually said ' it's crap, but...', so she was acknowledging that they said it was best, however, she didn't want to do what was best; she just really had no other choice.

It's beyond stupid to be on a reality show when she's having these major issues in her life. She probably has no other source of income but really, talking about all this on camera shows she's not in her right mind.

8 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

 

I was disappointed to see Sabrina's male friend encouraging her to try to keep the children.  I'm not sure why they were discussing getting Oakley back, because Sabrina said that her parental rights were terminated regarding Oakley. If this is true, Sabrina has no say so over it.   She's now worried the same thing will happen with her unborn baby.  It seems, that she is trying to now propose that her parents adopt the baby and perhaps Oakley too.  That might be a better option, because Sabrina has not proven to be responsible enough to protect her daughter. This pity and pep talk tends to make Sabrina feel better, but, it doesn't address the children's needs.  That's what is really important.

 

Not caught up yet but taking it she said her rights are terminated. Which if that is the case there is a ton more to the story then she is giving and that had gone on up until the friend drug overdosing. I would bet she was given a couple warnings and a judge that probably wasn't going to put up with her bs, pity me, victim act if this is the case. Sorry but I would rather her parents NOT have the kids. I can see her popping on a whim high and taking them when she isn't suppose to. She would only want her parents to have them because she would think she could have access to them at all times and doesn't realize its not how it would work at all. Heck her parents might not let her or want her to see them either if they knew everything. At this point everything is always about Sabrina and what she wants. Nothing more.

I can't imagine this show gives her a source of income to live off of all year long though. Especially with a drug addiction going on. 

[SunnyBeBe]

When did they confirm who is the father of Rebecca's oldest child?  The other week, when they showed flashbacks, they showed them when they first went to NY.  It  seemed a secret at first that she was married to another man and already had a daughter when she and Abe hooked up.  Did they say something different?  Was that portrayal not true?

[booboopbedoo]

Carmela get off your ass and help clean the trailer. There are things you c an do besides complain and reminisce about life in the Cult.

Abe drives truck and they complain he is never home so why are you going to Florida?

Mary is becoming annoying and looks fatter than before.

I want to throw Sabrina down the well!

[Complexity]

28 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

When did they confirm who is the father of Rebecca's oldest child?  The other week, when they showed flashbacks, they showed them when they first went to NY.  It  seemed a secret at first that she was married to another man and already had a daughter when she and Abe hooked up.  Did they say something different?  Was that portrayal not true?

I believe her first husband (or someone other than Abe) is the father of her first child. From wikipedia:

• In [season 1] episode 10 Rebecca states that she had been married directly after her 18th birthday in 2009 and divorced in July 2012. She also mentions that she has a daughter. Aired November 11, 2012

Edited May 16, 2017 by Complexity

[Chewy101]

Jeremiah is the nastiest, meanest bully. He turns from loving to mean on a dime. His PMS is the worst case I've ever seen.

This show is nothing but me yelling "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!" at the TV over and over.

Rebecca is by far the most stable and sensible person on this show. I wish Jeremiah would lay off of her. He married a mouse because he doesn't WANT a sensible strong woman. Rebecca did not make Abe pull out his teeth. She even got a job to help him pay for dental repair. But he realized it wasn't worth it in the long run. I think Jeremiah just doesn't like that when she is around, Abe doesn't follow HIM around anymore. 

And that fact she calls Mary out on all of her hypocrisy and immaturity makes me like her. Mary and Abe are like some weird little couple, and I don't blame Rebecca for finding it a bit much at times.

7 hours ago, bichonblitz said:

 

Carmela is a piece of work. She's complaining Jeremiah doesn't spend enough time with her having fun because he's always spending his time on trying to get the house finished,  then she complains to Mary about the living conditions in that tiny trailer that they have to live in and she can't take much more of living like that (it does sound really disgusting and uncomfortable) so what exactly in the fuckity fuck does she want?  Nice home or Fun? Apparently you can't have both with Jere

 

She did not want him buying the properties to begin with, but there was no stopping him. 

I just love how this entire episode is about how Mary and Abe barging in, uninvited, to Jeremiah's is ok, but Rebecca can't join them on her own family's vacation. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by Chewy101

[HZAnita]

38 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

Jeremiah is the nastiest, meanest bully. He turns from loving to mean on a dime. His PMS is the worst case I've ever seen.

This show is nothing but me yelling "WHAT WERE YOU THINKING?!" at the TV over and over.

Rebecca is by far the most stable and sensible person on this show. I wish Jeremiah would lay off of her. He married a mouse because he doesn't WANT a sensible strong woman. Rebecca did not make Abe pull out his teeth. She even got a job to help him pay for dental repair. But he realized it wasn't worth it in the long run. I think Jeremiah just doesn't like that then she is around, Abe doesn't follow HIM around anymore. 

And that fact she calls Mary out on all of her hypocrisy and immaturity makes me like her. Mary and Abe are like some weird little couple, and I don't blame Rebecca for finding it a bit much at times.

She did not want him buying the properties to begin with, but there was no stopping him. 

I just love how this entire episode is about how Mary and Abe barging in, uninvited, to Jeremiah's is ok, but Rebecca can't join them on her own family's vacation. 

Thank you so much.  I just started watching this show when they had the marathon a few weeks ago, so I don't know all of the history or reason behind the Rebecca hate.  To me, she is the only person with sense left in the cast (after Kate left).  She and Abe seems like a semi-normal couple.  I can't stand Sabrina, probably I don't "know" her enough to feel sorry for her.  I feel more sorry for her kids than her.  Mary? *sigh*  Jeremiah?  *spit*  When Carmella was going on and on about the curse because of all of the mishaps before the wedding, I was yelling, "NO!  It's not a curse!  It's GOD trying to SAVE you!!!" lol  This show.  I don't know how I got sucked into this one...:/

[Complexity]

Whoa, I just looked up the effects of methadone on newborns, and what I found clearly indicates that Sabrina cannot possibly even consider a home birth. Her newborn baby would need to be in neonatal care at the hospital.

Livingstrong.com states:

• Babies born addicted to methadone will go through withdrawal after delivery, usually within 24 to 48 hours.

• Newborns undergoing withdrawal from opiates and synthetic narcotics such as methadone are classified as having Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome, or NAS.

Take a look at the withdrawal symptoms:

• irritability

• shrill cry

• increased startle reflex

• increased Moro reflex

• increased muscle tone or may have fluctuating muscle tone

• may be jittery

• may sleep less than normal

• may be easily disturbed by outside stimuli

• may have seizures

• poor feeding

• increased need for sucking

• poor suck-swallow coordination

• dehydration

• poor weight gain

• vomiting

• watery stools

• rapid breathing

• frequent sneezing or yawning

• stuffy nose

• nasal flaring

• temperature instability or fever

• skin mottling

• increased sweating

• excoriation of extremities from increased restless movement

• slightly higher risk of sudden infant death syndrome

??? That poor baby. ☹️☹️☹️

[Complexity]

I was curious as to what grounds could be used to involuntarily remove Sabrina's parental rights. Losing parental rights is huge and not to be taken lightly (which I don't think the courts did). So what could Sabrina have done to lose her rights as a parent?

Here's what I found (State of PA, SUBCHAPTER B. INVOLUNTARY TERMINATION):

• § 2511.  Grounds for involuntary termination.

  • (a)  General rule.

    • (5)  The child has been removed from the care of the parent by the court or under a voluntary agreement with an agency for a period of at least six months, the conditions which led to the removal or placement of the child continue to exist, the parent cannot or will not remedy those conditions within a reasonable period of time, the services or assistance reasonably available to the parent are not likely to remedy the conditions which led to the removal or placement of the child within a reasonable period of time and termination of the parental rights would best serve the needs and welfare of the child.

So, basically, Sabrina continued to do whatever she did to lose custody of Oakley which then caused the court to take the next step and terminate her parental rights. The two things I can think of to cause this is Sabrina continued taking drugs and/or Sabrina continued to allow Oakley to be with her father without court supervision (I suspect both).

The sad thing about all this is that it was very easy to remedy the problem. All Sabrina had to do was get away from her druggy friends and lover and stop the drugs herself. But she made a choice: she chose drugs over her children. So extremely sad for the children and so extremely thoughtless, uncaring, and irresponsible for Sabrina.

I do not feel empathy or sympathy for Sabrina. What she did to her children was inexcusable, and it is her children who have been left to suffer the consequences.

Edited May 16, 2017 by Complexity

[OnceSane]

And that is why Rebecca doesn't want to fuck with her…after Andrew & Chapel, she knows better than to let an addict suck her in.

[Evil Queen]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

When did they confirm who is the father of Rebecca's oldest child?  The other week, when they showed flashbacks, they showed them when they first went to NY.  It  seemed a secret at first that she was married to another man and already had a daughter when she and Abe hooked up.  Did they say something different?  Was that portrayal not true?

3 hours ago, Complexity said:

I believe her first husband (or someone other than Abe) is the father of her first child. From wikipedia:

• In [season 1] episode 10 Rebecca states that she had been married directly after her 18th birthday in 2009 and divorced in July 2012. She also mentions that she has a daughter. Aired November 11, 2012

She admitted it was Abe's daughter at some point. It was never said on the show though. Rumor was it was Andrew's (Abe's brother) but that isn't true. If the show had put it all out about the oldest child they couldn't do the "storyline" the way it ended up being in the beginning. 

 

2 hours ago, HZAnita said:

Thank you so much.  I just started watching this show when they had the marathon a few weeks ago, so I don't know all of the history or reason behind the Rebecca hate.  To me, she is the only person with sense left in the cast (after Kate left).  She and Abe seems like a semi-normal couple.  I can't stand Sabrina, probably I don't "know" her enough to feel sorry for her.  I feel more sorry for her kids than her.  Mary? *sigh*  Jeremiah?  *spit*  When Carmella was going on and on about the curse because of all of the mishaps before the wedding, I was yelling, "NO!  It's not a curse!  It's GOD trying to SAVE you!!!" lol  This show.  I don't know how I got sucked into this one...:/

There are some people that think Rebecca is stuck up, a bitch and controlling. I think many forget that this show is edited to make things look a certain way with some (some it doesn't take much editing to do that though...Sabrina, Jeremiah) and that there are reasons one might be that way. I have never hated Rebecca. I actually liked her from the get go. I would bet the whole thing with her education is just scripted because they don't have much else for them. She is watching over her family like any good mom/wife would do. I have said it here before but I get her attitude on Sabrina. I am right there with her and know she is doing what is best. I have a sister that is an addict. I refuse to allow her near my family and myself. I do not have contact with her at all. I don't want it. She has never changed over the years at all. I've had not nice things said to me in the past by her so I won't let my kids be near that behavior. I think Rebecca and Abe are probably more equals than we ever see on the show because that wouldn't work well for the show at all if that was the case. 

7 minutes ago, OnceSane said:

And that is why Rebecca doesn't want to fuck with her…after Andrew & Chapel, she knows better than to let an addict suck her in.

EXACTLY!!! Its a been there done that and not going back situation. I applaud her for it. Those saying she is a bitch or controlling don't get it at all. 

10 minutes ago, Complexity said:

I do not feel empathy or sympathy for Sabrina. What she did to her children was inexcusable, and it is her children who have been left to suffer the consequences.

Exactly! I have none of that for her myself and haven't since things came out about her and losing Oakley the first time. She was whining and complaining instead of dealing with the issues at hand and trying to make it all right. Now she has a second one and I bet the court was watching closely. I'd have to go back to look at the timeline of things but I wouldn't be surprised if she had the dad/ex around from the time she got Oakley back until again she was taken from her and it was shortly before or soon after that she ended up pregnant by the same guy again. 

[Snarklepuss]

I just now caught up with this ugly mess, whoa....

Maybe I'm the only one that caught Mary saying at one point "When I was Amish".  BUSTED!  We all know she's not Amish and hasn't been for some time.  She only acts that way for the show.  She says she wears the clothes because she's "more comfortable" in them.  I almost wonder if that's BS too.

I wanted to throw something at the TV when Jeremiah said his kids were "the world" to him.  How often does he actually see them?  Twice a year, maybe?  That's easy for him to say when he's out running around doing whatever he pleases.  And Carmela - Where are her kids?  Some of them look rather young.  They make it look on the show like she doesn't live with them, so what's the story?  And then they go and talk about wanting their own child, giving the most selfish reasons ever for doing so?  UGH.  They think they're so mature when it's painfully obvious to the audience that they are a total train wreck waiting to happen!  They think spitting out kids is the solution to everything in their own lives, never mind the welfare of the child!  I am seriously hoping that they don't get anywhere with it.  Carmela is already probably pushing 40 as it is so one can only hope....

Watching the flashback show made me realize just how much of the first couple of seasons was a complete re-writing of history.  Abe and Rebecca not only knew each other already but had a child together.  Jeremiah was only afraid he'd be caught filming because he had left long ago and was only there to make it look like he still lived Amish.  He was already married and divorced from an "English" woman when this series first started.

Most startling to see again was Sabrina's transformation.  She is not the person she was in the first season.  Everything about her is different and not just her appearance either.  She has gone from what seemed like a more self confident person to a total black hole of self hate.  She seems to be locked into a self destructive pattern she can't seem to get free from.  Not going to that church would be the WRONG move, so that's probably what she's going to do.  Thinking that getting pregnant again would help her case is another wrong move based on crazy logic - She seems to have gone off the deep end completely mentally.  I can't help but think there's more to the story of why she was denied parental rights to her daughter that was not aired on TV.  I agree that it would not have happened so fast and be so permanent if there wasn't more to it.  Those two kids would be better off without her, as sad and depressing as that is!

[SunnyBeBe]

14 hours ago, Complexity said:

I believe her first husband (or someone other than Abe) is the father of her first child. From wikipedia:

• In [season 1] episode 10 Rebecca states that she had been married directly after her 18th birthday in 2009 and divorced in July 2012. She also mentions that she has a daughter. Aired November 11, 2012

This is in line from what I have seen in the flashback episodes.  I just haven't seen anything that really indicates that Abe has more than one child with Rebecca.  Not sure if he has adopted the older child or not.  

Sadly, I wonder if Jeremiah and Carmela are discussing having a baby only for ratings reasons.  After Sabrina's baby story, that will be it.  I suppose they want to add some baby story interest, since it's ratings boon.  Maybe, it won't pan out.  I hope not.  Neither one of them seems the least bit concerned about how a child would fare living in their custody.  It's not pretty.  Verbal sparing is not healthy for a child.  Since Jeremiah does that for sport, I'd say it would make for a questionable environment at the least. 

Edited May 16, 2017 by SunnyBeBe

[Complexity]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

This is in line from what I have seen in the flashback episodes.  I just haven't seen anything that really indicates that Abe has more than one child with Rebecca.  Not sure if he has adopted the older child or not.  

So the flashback episodes say someone other than Abe is the father? Was it her first husband or someone else?

[booboopbedoo]

What is with Sabrina's shifty looks? She can't look anyone in the eye

[TurtlePower]

1 hour ago, Snarklepuss said:

I just now caught up with this ugly mess, whoa....

Maybe I'm the only one that caught Mary saying at one point "When I was Amish".  BUSTED!  We all know she's not Amish and hasn't been for some time.  She only acts that way for the show.  She says she wears the clothes because she's "more comfortable" in them.  I almost wonder if that's BS too.

I wanted to throw something at the TV when Jeremiah said his kids were "the world" to him.  How often does he actually see them?  Twice a year, maybe?  That's easy for him to say when he's out running around doing whatever he pleases.  And Carmela - Where are her kids?  Some of them look rather young.  They make it look on the show like she doesn't live with them, so what's the story?  And then they go and talk about wanting their own child, giving the most selfish reasons ever for doing so?  UGH.  They think they're so mature when it's painfully obvious to the audience that they are a total train wreck waiting to happen!  They think spitting out kids is the solution to everything in their own lives, never mind the welfare of the child!  I am seriously hoping that they don't get anywhere with it.  Carmela is already probably pushing 40 as it is so one can only hope....

Watching the flashback show made me realize just how much of the first couple of seasons was a complete re-writing of history.  Abe and Rebecca not only knew each other already but had a child together.  Jeremiah was only afraid he'd be caught filming because he had left long ago and was only there to make it look like he still lived Amish.  He was already married and divorced from an "English" woman when this series first started.

Most startling to see again was Sabrina's transformation.  She is not the person she was in the first season.  Everything about her is different and not just her appearance either.  She has gone from what seemed like a more self confident person to a total black hole of self hate.  She seems to be locked into a self destructive pattern she can't seem to get free from.  Not going to that church would be the WRONG move, so that's probably what she's going to do.  Thinking that getting pregnant again would help her case is another wrong move based on crazy logic - She seems to have gone off the deep end completely mentally.  I can't help but think there's more to the story of why she was denied parental rights to her daughter that was not aired on TV.  I agree that it would not have happened so fast and be so permanent if there wasn't more to it.  Those two kids would be better off without her, as sad and depressing as that is!

Her life could have been so different had she not gone down the drug trail and having kids while struggling with addiction. Now she's dug herself a hole so deep it's going to take a complete change of heart--and a long time--to get herself out of it. She's going to have to accept the consequences for starters and commit to some kind of treatment. 

[Evil Queen]

2 hours ago, Complexity said:

So the flashback episodes say someone other than Abe is the father? Was it her first husband or someone else?

The oldest is Abe's. The way it was done on the show was scripted and more than likely so we wouldn't know they had already been together in that way since the show was playing it off as if they didn't know each other much. Yet its been said outside the show the oldest daughter is his. 

1 hour ago, booboopbedoo said:

What is with Sabrina's shifty looks? She can't look anyone in the eye

Its probably because she is telling another lie. A person constantly lying is never going to look others in the eyes for fear of being found out.

1 hour ago, TurtlePower said:

Her life could have been so different had she not gone down the drug trail and having kids while struggling with addiction. Now she's dug herself a hole so deep it's going to take a complete change of heart--and a long time--to get herself out of it. She's going to have to accept the consequences for starters and commit to some kind of treatment. 

Agree it would have. You see how she was in the earlier days and its very different from later on. The thing is, as long as she keeps playing "victim" and the "pity me" act nothing will ever change. She won't take responsibility for her shit. She shows that with everything she does and says. She rather lay the blame on everyone else instead. Its disgusting. 

 

3 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Maybe I'm the only one that caught Mary saying at one point "When I was Amish".  BUSTED!  We all know she's not Amish and hasn't been for some time.  She only acts that way for the show.  She says she wears the clothes because she's "more comfortable" in them.  I almost wonder if that's BS too.

I haven't watched this one yet. Just watched the one before and that was enough for one day. LOL But as I said in the other thread, I think Mary keeps the Amish outfit around for the attention. I doubt she wears it all the time but probably when she is wanting all eyes on her and people to ask about it. Which then it brings to question is Chester Amish or playing it up as well for when he makes the rare appearance on camera? Or they separated and he lives Amish and she isn't? Either way she comes off a very selfish person.

[Complexity]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

A person constantly lying is never going to look others in the eyes for fear of being found out.

This is an old myth that is not true. Given the context of when she looks down, she may have been feeling too much shame to maintain eye contact.

[Evil Queen]

7 hours ago, Complexity said:

This is an old myth that is not true. Given the context of when she looks down, she may have been feeling too much shame to maintain eye contact.

The ones I have known that lied to me never looked me in the eyes but did what she was doing. It is one of those it varies from person to person. With her I think its a combo of issues though really. Its that she is lying and has been doing it so long to avoid someone seeing she was high that she is just used to doing that. 

[Chewy101]

She used to be a pretty "no nonsense" person. If production is forcing her to lie about so many of these things in her life, she may be acting shifty because she KNOWS her story is shifty. She knows it's utter crap and doesn't add up. I can't tell if she is lying to herself or just to us. 50 shades of crazy.

[Complexity]

1 hour ago, Evil Queen said:

The ones I have known that lied to me never looked me in the eyes but did what she was doing. It is one of those it varies from person to person. With her I think its a combo of issues though really. Its that she is lying and has been doing it so long to avoid someone seeing she was high that she is just used to doing that. 

I understand. I'm merely repeating what I learned while getting my masters in psych. There are always exceptions, but the old idea that people cannot look a person in the eye while lying is just an old myth. People can and regularly do look people in the eye while lying. Psych research has found that we cannot tell when someone is lying by looking at their facial expression or whether they are or are not making eye contact.

[Snarklepuss]

3 hours ago, Complexity said:

I understand. I'm merely repeating what I learned while getting my masters in psych. There are always exceptions, but the old idea that people cannot look a person in the eye while lying is just an old myth. People can and regularly do look people in the eye while lying. Psych research has found that we cannot tell when someone is lying by looking at their facial expression or whether they are or are not making eye contact.

ITA, although this research is relatively recent.  When I was in grad. school over 20 years ago the myth was still alive and well.

There are still a lot of reputable sources claiming the old looking left or right looking myth, which is interesting.  Some claim the opposite - that looking directly at a person is more a sign of lying than looking away.

Others  including "Psychology Today" claim a host of other body language clues for spotting a liar, including the position of their feet and hands.  None of these quotes any studies to back up their claims so I take that with a huge grain of salt.

[TurtlePower]

8 hours ago, Complexity said:

I understand. I'm merely repeating what I learned while getting my masters in psych. There are always exceptions, but the old idea that people cannot look a person in the eye while lying is just an old myth. People can and regularly do look people in the eye while lying. Psych research has found that we cannot tell when someone is lying by looking at their facial expression or whether they are or are not making eye contact.

Not trying to open a debate, but having done worked as a LEO, there is some truth to this. Some people are poor liars and easy to spot (the body language, etc), others are very convincing liars, and some people may appear to be deceptive when they are not. Later analysis of their statements can find anomalies in the use of language that indicates possible deception. Then you did deeper and ask more questions, etc. 

Back on track. I don't know what to think of Sabrina other than she hasn't accepted the reality of her situation and doesn't appear to want to. It's as if she's making up her own reality and trying to half-heartedly convince herself of it.

[booboopbedoo]

So the store had no cover-ups or Caftans for Carmela to try on?

She is another one that needs to be thrown down the well. DH and I started counting how many times she rings up the cult.

[Evil Queen]

Starting to watch this now. Sorry but is this all the crap Carmela wears? Then the excuses for it? She is even on the beach in those damn ugly ass ugg boots and her cold weather looking clothes. It looks as ridiculous though at the beach as Mary in her Amish outfit at this point. Sorry but she has been out of her stupid ass cult long enough that I don't buy the bs curse crap or modesty shit. The whole thing about how they have things in common made me laugh when she brought up the Grandma thing. Mary as well had me laughing with her TH about how she was going down to Florida to help Carmela and Jeremiah with their marriage issues. Sorry but not only does she have her own she should be taking care of but Jeremiah's abusive ways are what is the issue and that is something Mary can't change with a little chat or her gross food. Now they want to start a family even though you never see her being a mom or talking about her other kids. Same with Jeremiah. Abe was right in his TH about them needing to wait. This is one of those things where I it gets old hearing about the money and then this brought up. 

Why did Jeremiah take her to that area and start his paranoid crap? If he knew he would feel that way it seemed silly to go there and then turn around to tell her he doesn't care what she thinks when nothing happened to warrant the paranoid behavior. Anxiety attack huh? He doesn't know why he gets scared huh? I can tell you its not what Carmela thinks that is for sure but more his being an asshole. 

Sabrina is stupid. Even the midwife or whatever that lady is wasn't even looking at her with sympathy from what it looked like. She probably was wondering what this girl did to have her one taken from her and didn't want to be mixed up in that nightmare. Even though that lady comes off a little strange as well. I am sure there is far more to the story than letting Oakley's dad around when he wasn't suppose to be and the guy that od in the car. I will bet its been a reoccurring issue and she has been spoken to more than once on it all too. She has always come off as someone that thinks she can do whatever she pleases and its ok. She brought up her bio mom and that whole issue but yet she doesn't see she is repeating those things. Sure she hasn't dumped her baby off as she claims her mom did her (which do we even know if this is true) but she is sure repeating her bio mom's drug issues. Which because of it has cost her the kid(s) she claims to love so much and would do anything for. Her TH thinking she would be stronger if she had everyone around her to support her. OMG is she really this stupid? They tried to be there for her at one point but she burned them. I don't blame Rebecca and Abe for not being there for her pathetic crap. All she would do is go off on Rebecca so what is the point. Sabrina obviously doesn't get that Rebecca isn't "shunning" her because its what Amish do but its all the bad choices Sabrina keeps making. No one wants that around their family. I am so sick of her whining about shit and that the next baby will be taken too. She did this to herself and still is not taking the responsibility for her actions. I don't think she ever will. She needs to get it through her head that her rights are done as a parent to Oakley and there is no more fighting when all she has done is shown she won't put her daughter first. She claims that the English world cause her nothing but pain and Mennonite didn't. She claimed to be miserable there I thought? If she really had learned to run a household from being raised that way but I don't see that. Sorry but I doubt she can just pass this next baby off to her parents as easily as she thinks or to fight to keep this one as Matt suggested. 

And why is it all of a sudden that Sabrina is supposedly friends with certain people from the cast of a different Breaking Amish? Matt is stupid if he didn't think people knew he was gay already. It was obvious the second everyone saw him. I think he will tire of Sabrina just like others have after he has dealt with the "pity me" victim act over and over again. 

I am so sick of this show making it like Rebecca is the joy killer in things. Its no wonder there are those thinking she is a bitch and stuff. How about its the ones around her that are considering Jeremiah no matter who is around will have tantrums or that Mary is attention starved and doing stupid shit to kill the fun since one has to watch her like a kid. As well as Mary seems to want to suck Abe into her crap all the time and who would want their husband mixed up in her shit? Could Mary quit saying she wants to spank Rebecca because we all know Mary is the one that needs it at this point with her behavior and not giving a crap about her husband. I am doubting they were ignoring Carmela. Its Jeremiah and his made up crap or the show making up crap to have drama. I think if she spoke to Rebecca and Abe they would have talked to her. As if the rest didn't have backs turned at different points on the boat either. Jeremiah should have been spending time with his wife like Abe was with his considering their issues and lack of time.

Katie Ann looks good and its nice to see her. Andrew actually looks better than the last time we had seen him. I hope he is keeping himself clean. 

Jeremaih's story crap. He says anger is what gets him by....does that not tell you right there who he is or what? These story things are kind of a joke. It just reminds us of all the bs they tried to feed to us from the get go. Wonder who's idea it was to do these things. Between these hour things and the constant flashbacks in the show I wonder if this is finally the last season for them. 

This one made me wonder why the hell I am watching this crap still. UGH!!! 

[Snarklepuss]

4 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

Not trying to open a debate, but having done worked as a LEO, there is some truth to this. Some people are poor liars and easy to spot (the body language, etc), others are very convincing liars, and some people may appear to be deceptive when they are not. Later analysis of their statements can find anomalies in the use of language that indicates possible deception. Then you did deeper and ask more questions, etc.

That's true, there are good liars and there are bad liars.  I've read that some truthful people exhibit the same body language as liars when they are very underconfident and so it depends on the person.  Sabrina is either a very bad liar and very underconfident or very underconfident and telling the truth.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Snarklepuss
Periods are important!

[Complexity]

9 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

ITA, although this research is relatively recent.  When I was in grad. school over 20 years ago the myth was still alive and well.

There are still a lot of reputable sources claiming the old looking left or right looking myth, which is interesting.  Some claim the opposite - that looking directly at a person is more a sign of lying than looking away.

Which is why I mentioned that it was a myth in the first place. So many myths get passed down over the years, taken to be the truth, even after they've been debunked. If anyone wants to see an example of someone lying while making direct eye contact, there are plenty of examples on youtube of children telling their parents they didn't do it while their faces are covered in (cookies, markers, etc) that give away their lies! ?

9 hours ago, Snarklepuss said:

Others  including "Psychology Today" claim a host of other body language clues for spotting a liar, including the position of their feet and hands.  None of these quotes any studies to back up their claims so I take that with a huge grain of salt.

Wow, that was a really bad blog entry! Psychology Today is frowned upon in the academic world, and that blog is one reason why. I sometimes quote them in public forums because some of their articles explain things in very simple language which works well for people unfamiliar with the tedious nature of research articles, but I'd be reprimanded if I ever used them as a resource in a research paper.

4 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

Not trying to open a debate, but having done worked as a LEO, there is some truth to this. Some people are poor liars and easy to spot (the body language, etc), others are very convincing liars, and some people may appear to be deceptive when they are not. Later analysis of their statements can find anomalies in the use of language that indicates possible deception. Then you did deeper and ask more questions, etc.

LEO = Law Enforcement Officer?

You are dead on with this. People's nonverbal behavior while lying largely depends on the person's psychological makeup. Someone with anti-social personality disorder would find it very easy to lie with the proverbial straight face. They can easily pass a polygraph test because of their lack of a conscious and empathy. They just don't have the emotional response to lying that is required for the physiological changes that are measured on a polygraph machine. And that doesn't even begin to consider the type of lie involved. People will respond differently when telling a "white lie" than lying about something important. Plus behavior can change, depending on the expected consequences or person being told the lie. Telling a lie to your best friend (who will empathize with you) may be different than telling the same lie to your boss (who may fire you). It's so much more complicated than whether they make eye contact or not.

4 hours ago, TurtlePower said:

Back on track. I don't know what to think of Sabrina other than she hasn't accepted the reality of her situation and doesn't appear to want to. It's as if she's making up her own reality and trying to half-heartedly convince herself of it.

You mean we have a subject to talk about? LOL!! ? I think Sabrina is either putting on a huge act (possibly at the request of TLC to stir up drama) or she's in complete denial or she's just slow. Or maybe a combination of all three. She does have a huge problem with external locus of control (blaming others and not taking responsibility). Her drinking and drug use would suggest self-medicating behavior which indicates a desire to avoid her situation or her emotions or both. That would fit in with trying to avoid reality. And it would also explain how a person with an average intelligence can make such incredibly dumb choices—she cannot think clearly while intoxicated and/or high.

Whatever the reason, it is heartbreaking to watch her behavior, knowing the life-changing effects it has on her children. I hope Sabrina gets help, but if she doesn't, I strongly hope she doesn't have any more children. They absolutely do not deserve to be conceived and then born into her hot mess.

Edited May 17, 2017 by Complexity
autocorrect cannot yet read my mind.

[Snarklepuss]

1 minute ago, Complexity said:

Wow, that was a really bad blog entry! Psychology Today is frowned on in the academic world, and that blog is one reason why. I sometimes quote them in public forums because some of their articles explain things in very simple language which works well for people unfamiliar with the tedious nature of research articles, but I'd be reprimanded if I ever used them as a resource in a research paper.

Yup, I've always called that magazine "pop schlock psychology".  It's even more so today than 30 years ago, but by the time I went to grad. school I had completely abandoned it for any real information.

But truthfully, there really isn't much out there on the subject that I'd be comfortable presenting as anything more than an assumption or observations from "experts", not even a theory.