S04.E04: Oathkeeper

[Meredith Quill]

In Ghost of Harrenhal (S2E5), Quorhin Halfhand recommends sending a small group led by him to sneak into the Wildling camp and kill Mance Rayder. Jon Snow asks if he can join, which led to the following exchange

Lord Commander Mormont: You're a steward Snow, not a ranger

Jon Snow: I fought and killed a wight. How many rangers can say that?

 

Jon Snow was referring to the reanimated corpse of a member of the Night's Watch that Jon eventually "killed" by burning him (I think, but I'm not sure, he was a member of Benjen Stark's group that went missing).

 

Thanks for confirming that. I've removed the spoiler tags in my post now. :)

[Catherinewriter]

Off topic to Radiant AerynSun: I miss your show, so much.

Leave Hodor the f--k alone! This means all of you!

Re the scene between Margaery and Tommen: I thought at first we were seeing shoddy camera work at the end there, but on a rewatch I see a true POV shot. There's something going on under the bed. Who has it in for Tommen?

[CletusMusashi]

Maybe it's Tommen's evil cat, Maester Creep. Please let it have a monocle.

[NoWillToResist]

 

Leave Hodor the f--k alone! This means all of you!

 

I was upset enough when they chained him up and taunted him, but when one of those fuckers actually stabbed him in the leg and Hodor cried out in confusion and pain, I literally sat upright and yelled "leave him alone, you assholes!" at my tv. I felt so distressed for him!

[joliefaire]

^  I have great faith that Ghost and Summer are going to exact some justice, direwolf-style, this next episode.  Look out, Rast, you ugly asshole, the DW Brothers are comin' for your ass.

 

PS:  Just to share a hilarious post from someone on another board:  If I were a 13-yr old boy and Natalie Dormer came visiting me in my bed in the middle of the night, puberty would take like 7 minutes.  I'd wake up the next morning with a deep voice and a job at a construction site.

 

Had me laughing out loud.

Edited May 2, 2014 by joliefaire

[bunnyblue]

 

I have great faith that Ghost and Summer are going to exact some justice, direwolf-style, this next episode.  Look out, Rast, you ugly asshole, the DW Brothers are comin' for your ass.

 

I need Ghost and Summer to exact some revenge next episode. I want Ghost to tear Rast to shreds for the way he taunted him. Not only did he spill the water in front of Ghost's cage he didn't even give him the meaty leg that he had in his hand. Chicken sh*t punk was too busy fleeing from the White Walker to toss the food into Ghost's enclosure. 

 

I didn't understand what was wrong with Jojen. He was pretty useless in helping his sister protect their little group. Why was he all pasty and sweaty? The last time we saw him he was advising Bran not to warg into Summer too much. He didn't look deathly ill like he did in this episode. What gives? 

 

Seeing how easily Bran and co. were caught by the NW deserters, I realized how badly outmatched this little group would be against anyone. Bran is crippled, Hodor is slow & simple-minded, and Jojen is not healthy and doesn't even carry a weapon. Meera alone can not protect them against Wildlings, WW, or unsavory groups. Plus there's always the threat of rape to use against her. What was their father thinking sending his kids out into a dangerous world to find Bran?

[joliefaire]

^  I watched an interview earlier today at WiC with Thomas Brodie-Sangster (JoJen) where he talked about JoJen's sweating ill-health.  I'll put this in spoiler tags since I don't know if actor interviews should be tagged or not.  Nothing to do with the books, just the actor's take on what's going on with Jojen.

 

  The actor said that JoJen's visions cost him tremendously, health-wise.  Each time he goes into a seizure and sees visions, it debilitates him and that he continues to progressively get weaker and weaker.  But, he understands what's happening to him and is willing to continue because he knows that Bran must reach his goal, whatever that may be.  JoJen is willing sacrificing himself to help Bran achieve whatever it is Bran must achieve.  Also of interest, the actor said that we will see in season 4, some of the images that JoJen sees in his visions.

 

Good, interesting stuff coming up in the episodes to come!

Edited May 2, 2014 by joliefaire

[Conan Troutman]

Note to Burn Gorman: Please leave the other actors a little bit of the scenery as well, don't chew it all up. As horrifying as that scene was on first view, as funny it is on the second. Karl FTW!

[CletusMusashi]

There's a really well-argued hypothesis bouncing around on TWOP that his character was never an assassin or any other kind of scary criminal at all. He's just a shoemaker or something who ended up in the Watch and is so terrified of becoming somebody's bitch that he's created this whole image of what he thinks a hardcore professional killer acts like.

[Constantinople]

Interesting to see how Locke's infiltration of the Night's Watch parallels that of Jon Snow with the Wildlings

 

• Asks to join new group and switch allegiance to them after (purportedly) breaking vows or duties owed to another group.
• First gives idealistic reason for joining new group, then gives more plausible sounding second reason.
• While still new to the group, joins team on a dangerous behind the lines mission against the enemy, the difference being that Jon was drafted whereas Lock volunteered

I hope this is ringing some bells for Jon.

[NoWillToResist]

 

PS:  Just to share a hilarious post from someone on another board:  If I were a 13-yr old boy and Natalie Dormer came visiting me in my bed in the middle of the night, puberty would take like 7 minutes.  I'd wake up the next morning with a deep voice and a job at a construction site.

 

I do find the comment amusing, but at the same time, I can't help but feel that there is a double standard. Older Littlefinger is kind of perving on young Sansa and general reaction appears to be "eww!", yet older Margaery tiptoes into VERY young Tommen's bedroom and the consensus appears to be "Get it, Tommen!" I see it all the time in the real world with teacher/student relationships in the news.

 

Does the different reaction have to do with the differing levels of decency of the characters? Hotness?

 

Or does it just boil down to older man + young girl = ew, whereas older woman + boy = hot?

[JTMacc99]

As an adult, I now understand completely why it is very wrong for an adult woman to seduce a teenage boy, but as a teenage boy, not so much.

 

It feels wrong, but I guess it is easier to make a joke about a crime when the likely reaction of the victim would be "Woo Hoo!"

 

Of course, I am assuming that the people making the "Get it Tommen!" comments understand why it is wrong, and that is probably a poor assumption.

 

Also, yes, the decency of the characters plays a lot into it as well. Littlefinger is an awful human being, which would make me say Ewww even to a situation where an appropriately aged woman went along with him willingly.  

Edited May 2, 2014 by JTMacc99

[Isazouzi]

Littlefinger is an awful human being, which would make me say Ewww even to a situation where an appropriately aged woman went along with him willingly.  

 

Yes, I think with Littlefinger, it's not a matter of age, it's a matter of Littlefingerness. That guy makes me go "ewwww" even when he's all by himself. It's really a statement to the actor's talent, whom I loved on Queer where he was all confident and sexually predatory. Here he's so creepy in everything he does, even when he does almost nothing. That's quite a feat.

[Mz Anthrope]

I hope this is ringing some bells for Jon.

 

I doubt it.  Jon seems to me very idealistic and anyone who expresses views/ support that mirrors his passions is instantly accepted.

I do find the comment amusing, but at the same time, I can't help but feel that there is a double standard. Older Littlefinger is kind of perving on young Sansa and general reaction appears to be "eww!", yet older Margaery tiptoes into VERY young Tommen's bedroom and the consensus appears to be "Get it, Tommen!" I see it all the time in the real world with teacher/student relationships in the news.

 

Does the different reaction have to do with the differing levels of decency of the characters? Hotness?

 

Or does it just boil down to older man + young girl = ew, whereas older woman + boy = hot?

To me, the difference between the two is that Margery is looking to improve her standings/lot in life and isn't necessarily looking at the sexual aspect as the final goal.  Petyr ... totally skeeved on what I perceive are his intentions

[bravelittletoaster]

Bran is crippled, Hodor is slow & simple-minded, and Jojen is not healthy and doesn't even carry a weapon. Meera alone can not protect them against Wildlings, WW, or unsavory groups. Plus there's always the threat of rape to use against her.

 

tbh that threat applies to all of them [except Hodor] as we've recently been reminded by the Walking Dead.

[Qgirl]

I find myself more upset by animals dying in shows than people.  That said, I am relieved that Ghost is still alive even though he is stuck in a cage.  I hope that Jon is able to free both him and Summer when he gets to Craster's.  I am always worrying the dire wolves will get killed, it was awful when Rob's dire wolf was beheaded.  Now I have to worry about Ser Pounce's welfare!   As if we needed more reason to murder Joffrey,  we can now hope that Ser Pounce is safe to live a nice long life.  Seriously cute name for a cat too.  Way to make viewers like Tommen, show.

[TeddyPicker121]

Perhaps I'm overlooking something obvious, but why can't the Wildlings just use their Wargs to scope out the Night's Watch and see how many troops they have and what their defenses are like? I know the Thenns had a Warg with them.

[CletusMusashi]

My fanwank on that: when you psychically bond with an animal, while still maintaining your own intellect, something has to give. 

Wargs, when remembering their observations as an animal, lose all concept of metaphors.

And also, of precise taxonomy.

So when they try to remember which were "Crows," and which were just regular crows, and which were ravens and whatnot, the wargger guy gets a really bad headache and starts bleeding from the eyes, ears, and nose.

It would be a lot easier if the Watch called themselves the Kangaroos or something.

Edited May 4, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[Fable]

I do find the comment amusing, but at the same time, I can't help but feel that there is a double standard. Older Littlefinger is kind of perving on young Sansa and general reaction appears to be "eww!", yet older Margaery tiptoes into VERY young Tommen's bedroom and the consensus appears to be "Get it, Tommen!" I see it all the time in the real world with teacher/student relationships in the news.

Does the different reaction have to do with the differing levels of decency of the characters? Hotness?

Or does it just boil down to older man + young girl = ew, whereas older woman + boy = hot?

 

To me, the difference between the two is that Margery is looking to improve her standings/lot in life and isn't necessarily looking at the sexual aspect as the final goal.  Petyr ... totally skeeved on what I perceive are his intentions

 

 

But, it seems to me, she is using sexuality to manipulate Tommen.  Her goal may not be sexual conquest, but she is definitely using her feminine charms to achieve a means to an end, and she is deliberately trying to get a certain "reaction" from him.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Fable

[NoWillToResist]

 

But, it seems to me, she is using sexuality to manipulate Tommen.  Her goal may not be sexual conquest, but she is definitely using her feminine charms to achieve a means to an end, and she is deliberately trying to get a certain "reaction" from him.

 

But she doesn't seem to be trying to force the issue. She's putting herself out there, but if he doesn't respond, I don't think she's going to throw off her clothes, crawl into bed with him and force the issue. I feel she has some decency and that's why she's kept things platonic thus far. Probably wants the pre-teen boy to see the potential in having her around, rather than making sure they're caught in a compromising position and forcing his hand...

[The Companion]

I stand corrected. Perhaps Lady O was confident that she could still make Margaery queen once she found out that the Lannisters could not afford a royal wedding. The murder plot did seem a bit overcomplicated to me. What if Sansa a didn't wear the necklace? Why take the risk if doctoring the King's drink in front of everyone? Seems like there were easier ways to poison Joffrey.