S12.E16: Ladies Drink Free

[Diane]

WOLF IN THE NIGHT - Sam (Jared Padalecki) and Dean (Jensen Ackles) let Mick Davies (guest star Adam Fergus) tag along on a case as they search for a werewolf. The three men run into Claire Novak (guest star Kathryn Love Newton), also working the hunt. However, the reunion is short lived after Claire is bitten and the brothers race to find a way to help her before she turns.  Writer: Meredith Glynn Director: Amyn Kaderali

Absent: Mark Sheppard, Misha Collins

[Commando Cody]

The Clairewolf. 

I just couldn't resist. 

[Mick Lady]

And can we have catrox in three, two, one....

[Katy M]

Why do I get the feeling that they are going to change werewolf lore once again?  Since when you can stop someone from turning into a werewolf?  I haven't like a werewolf episode since Heart. Let's hope I'm pleasantly surprised.

[SueB]

Just now, Katy M said:

Why do I get the feeling that they are going to change werewolf lore once again?  Since when you can stop someone from turning into a werewolf?  I haven't like a werewolf episode since Heart. Let's hope I'm pleasantly surprised.

I'm hoping this is ONE time when the BMoL have an "old recipe" that the Winchesters don't know about yet. Or at least some lore to help. 

[Katy M]

4 minutes ago, SueB said:

I'm hoping this is ONE time when the BMoL have an "old recipe" that the Winchesters don't know about yet. Or at least some lore to help. 

I guess I could deal with that.  They didn't know how to cure a vampire until Grandpa told them.  But, it just always seems like every single werewolf episode they change the lore, or add something.  Every single time. 

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, SueB said:

I'm hoping this is ONE time when the BMoL have an "old recipe" that the Winchesters don't know about yet. Or at least some lore to help. 

I'm hoping the Winchesters find their own "recipe" and show the stuffed shirts how the saving is done. 

[catrox14]

[Commando Cody]

I think a silver bullet should take care of it. 

[Mick Lady]

5 hours ago, SueB said:

I'm hoping this is ONE time when the BMoL have an "old recipe" that the Winchesters don't know about yet. Or at least some lore to help. 

I found this in Super-wiki, (I live there now)

"Sam interrogates Madison and figures out that Madison was infected when she was bitten during what she thought was a mugging a month previously. Sam finds lore in John's Journal that suggests that if the "sire" of someone who is a werewolf is killed, they will be released from the curse."

This is from the episode Heart season 2 ep. 17

To be honest, I just watched it this morning.

[Katy M]

6 minutes ago, Mick Lady said:

I found this in Super-wiki, (I live there now)

"Sam interrogates Madison and figures out that Madison was infected when she was bitten during what she thought was a mugging a month previously. Sam finds lore in John's Journal that suggests that if the "sire" of someone who is a werewolf is killed, they will be released from the curse."

This is from the episode Heart season 2 ep. 17

To be honest, I just watched it this morning.

This is what he said:

“lycanthropy might have a cure if you kill the werewolf who bit you, severing the bloodline”.  They then killed the werewolf that bit Madison and it didn't work.

[Mick Lady]

Thanks Katy M!  #BovinesUnite!

[Katy M]

I will probably be in the minority, but I actually kind of liked this episode.  Will Mick come around to Sam and Dean's side?  We shall see, I guess.

[Jediknight]

Claire didn't die, and she called Jody her mother.  Awesome episode for her character.  I like her sibling chemistry with Sam and Dean.  Dean's the overprotective older brother who wants to kick the crap out of anybody who might hurt her, and he wants her to be as safe as possible.  Sam is protective but he's also trying to connect with her more emotionally, and if anybody hurts her, he'll kick the crap out of them.

Mick is starting to come around to the Winchesters side.  I guess killing a high school girl could make you realize that what you're doing isn't good.  Along with Dean telling him that Magda was an innocent victim in life.  Of course this means he'll go rogue, and wind up getting killed by Ketch to protect the Winchesters.

The British Men of Letters had to have been the ones to wipe out BartenderWolf's pack.

[Lemuria]

So, doing something really stupid, overestimating your abilities and getting bitten by a werewolf as a result proves that you're ready to hunt on your own?  Oy.

[MysteryGuest]

Ok, well at least we're getting somewhere.  Dean got to be annoyed and skeptical, and wasn't made to look like an ass.  Sam got to be the patient voice of reason and wasn't made to look like an ass.  Both of them finally got around to the "not all monsters are bad" major point that should have been made a while ago.  And Claire didn't die.  They definitely appear to be headed for the Mick redemption arc, so we'll see how that plays out.  It looks like that story continues, based on the brief preview we saw.  All in all, it was a fairly satisfying episode.

[catrox14]

Well that was a mixed bag.

LOVED everything Dean related, except you know HIM NOT CALLING CAS about Claire. Did he text him? What the hell? Not even a mention of Cas? I don't get it.

This is the most Dean has seemed like Dean in well a really long time. He took no guff. Stood by his disdain for the BMoL.Not sure about the giving him Mick another chance, but whatever. Protective not!father to his not!daughter. That was cool.

I LOVED him interviewing Mick without Mick getting that's what he was doing. Smart!Dean FTW! YAY.

Claire characterization was regressed from last season. I don't get her whole 'I must do this on my own". She did it on her own before and look where it got her. So because she almost got turned into a werewolf  that makes her realize Jody matters but I thought she learned when she got captured by the vampires and made peace with Alex and Jody. IDGI

Sam could take out 4 werewolves after being shot in the gut and almost dying but couldn't get the drop on ONE werewolf?? What? See, show, this is why you don't write something that OTT in the first place  because now the expectation is too high.  SMDH

I also fully expect Ketch will be sent to kill Claire.

How many trackers have they planted on the Winchesters? ALL OF THEM??

I'm miffed at teasing us about Dean swimming and not showing it. Good job to whoever made that call in the spoiler thread.  BOO SHOW!! BOO!!!

Edited March 31, 2017 by catrox14

[Jediknight]

3 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I also fully expect Ketch will be sent to kill Claire.

I'd imagine Mick won't say a damn thing about Claire being bit, so Ketch won't know about Claire being bit.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Jediknight

[Morrigan2575]

Holy Crap I liked Claire! How they hell did they manage that?

I really enjoyed this episode, I've liked Mick since they introduced and, really enjoyed his interactions with both brothers. I'm hoping he defects and joins Team US Hunters.

I loved both Sam and Dean in this episode it really played to both characters' strengths. I also thought the humor was spot on this episode. I had a good laugh over this whole Lodge thing. 

That being said, I felt the Werewolf was too predictable from the start. I just knew Tat guy was a red herring.

[Katy M]

I forgot about the hotel.  That was awesome.  Mick's all like "only 3 stars" and Dean was like "paradise."  Then complaining the next day to not give Mick any satisfaction.  Yep.  That's the Dean we know and love.

There was one thing that bugged me about this epi.  I know people change and everything and it's been a long time, but Dean told Claire they could lock her up a few nights a month and she'd be golden, but he was adamant that wouldn't work with Madison because she would bust out some night and kill people.

Edited March 31, 2017 by Katy M

[MysteryGuest]

4 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Claire characterization was regressed from last season. I don't get her whole 'I must do this on my own". She did it on her own before and look where it got her. So because she almost got turned into a werewolf  that makes her realize Jody matters but I thought she learned when she got captured by the vampires and made peace with Alex and Jody. IDGI

Agreed.  I thought the Claire storyline was the weakest of the episode.  She comes across as completely unskilled and reckless, so in reality she'd have been killed a long time ago.  I'm not sure why they have to write her so badly.  She could still have been bitten while at least being shown to be fairly competent and maturing.  

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

I'd imagine Mick won't say a damn thing about Claire being bit, so Ketch won't know about Claire being bit.

Trackers. Mick put a tracker on Claire.  I would imagine that went into a database back at the BMoL HQ. Didn't he send a report about werewolves to his boss? Ketch probably doesn't get his kill orders SOLELY from Mick. If anyone else gets any wind that this happened to Claire, she's a target IMO.

3 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I forgot about the hotel.  That was awesome.  Mick's all like "only 3 stars" and Dean was like "paradise."  Then complaining the next day to not give Mick any satisfaction.  Yep.  That's the Dean we know and love.

That made me laugh.

[SueB]

1 minute ago, Jediknight said:

The British Men of Letters had to have been the ones to wipe out BartenderWolf's pack.

Yes, they are dropping clues left and right.  The WInchesters were quick to say "we're out" after the girl in the hospital.  I accept the "one last chance" for Mick given he saved Claire.  But this 'partnership' is short lived.  The BMoL body count is too high.

The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly ... quick thoughts:

The Good:
- The little diversion into a 3 star hotel.  Nice for the boys to have a classy joint.
- Dean and Sam both CLEARLY drawing the line on murder of those who could be saved.
- Claire's little "she's going to be so mad at me."  Claire may think she's ready to hunt but that reaction right there shows me she still needs Jody.
- Dean's double interrogation.  Mick, Mick, Mick.  You are SO out of your league.
- Alex is going to nursing school.  I like that little tidbit.  It fits her recovery arc very well.
- Sam standing up for Claire making her own decision. I totally empathize with Dean but Sam was right to let Claire decide.
- The werewolf cure.  It's about time.  It was a little simplistic but I like that they have an option now.
- For a minute, I really bought that Claire died.  It made no sense, I really thought she wouldn't, so I think they did a good job with the fake-out.
- Claire had a lot of good one-liners.  As did Dean & Sam.  In general, the dialog was good IMO.
- I'm up for Mick's redemption.  I like the idea that the Winchesters change people's lives as well as save them.
- I appreciate the lampshade on the horror trope in the teaser.  My first thought was "you are so dead". 

The Bad:
- I don't agree with the boys keeping secrets from Jody.  I understand its Claire's decision but at the same time, I think they should fold like a deck of cards if Jody interrogates them.  Of course we were saved that issue because Claire DID call Jody.
- I want Wayward Daughters. Plural. Not Wayward Daughter.  I actually like Claire but I think there needs to be a larger group to make it more enjoyable.
- Claire was immature in her argument with Sam.  She needs to drop the whine.
- No mention of calling Jody (by the boys) when Claire was dying.  I can see, once Claire had turned, how they wanted to know if the cure worked.  But can you IMAGINE them bringing home Claire's body to Jody? NOPE. NOPE.  

The Ugly:
- No simple "Cas has gone radio silent." 

The UNFORGIVABLE:
- Dean went swimming and we have NO PICTURES?! Bastards. (although I imagine someone has already written fanfic about it)
 

In sum, I was entertained by this episode.  I liked the story and the way it moved the season arc.  I like how the brothers are clearly NOT comfortable with the Brits and are not drinking the Kool-aid.

[Lemuria]

Quote

Ketch probably doesn't get his kill orders SOLELY from Mick. If anyone else gets any wind that this happened to Claire, she's a target IMO.

I think she could be more of a target because she showed that their cure could work on a human.  They might want to capture and study her.  (If it gets her off my screen, I'm OK with that.  No lesson learned the hard way ever takes with her for more than an hour, apparently.)

[catrox14]

1 minute ago, SueB said:

Dean went swimming and we have NO PICTURES?! Bastards. (although I imagine someone has already written fanfic about it)
 

I have no idea what you are talking about :P

[SueB]

9 minutes ago, Katy M said:

I forgot about the hotel.  That was awesome.  Mick's all like "only 3 stars" and Dean was like "paradise."  Then complaining the next day to not give Mick any satisfaction.  Yep.  That's the Dean we know and love.

There was one thing that bugged me about this epi.  I know people change and everything and it's been a long time, but Dean told Claire they could lock her up a few nights a month and she'd be golden, but he was adamant that wouldn't work with Madison because she would bust out some night and kill people.

S2 versus S12.  Dean even mentioned they used to see things as black and white and now they know better.  Plus, since then, they've met werewolves who were, in fact, dealing with the condition for months to years.  They just didn't know better in S2.

Edited March 31, 2017 by SueB

[catrox14]

Just now, Lemuria said:

I think she could be more of a target because she showed that their cure could work on a human.  They might want to capture and study her.  (If it gets her off my screen, I'm OK with that.  No lesson learned the hard way ever takes with her for more than an hour, apparently.)

That's a good point.  I can buy that. There is a reason she drove off totally on her own and gave Jody that long farewell voice mail. It's not going to end well for her IMO.

[MysteryGuest]

Best of all for me, it was very satisfyingly "Lucifer free".  I actually got to watch the entire episode without zoning out!!  That's a win for me.

This is one that I'm definitely eager to watch again without commercials.  I always catch a few things I missed the first go round, so I'm looking forward to it.  It feels good to be excited about an episode again.

[rue721]

14 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

Claire didn't die, and she called Jody her mother.  Awesome episode for her character.

This is probably just me, but I didn't like Claire calling Jodi her mother. I mean, Claire did have an actual mother, who left/died (forget) when Claire was like 8 or 12? To me, it's off-putting, like Claire is rewriting history.

But I'm sure it was meant to be a tender/triumphant moment for the character and to show real growth and stuff. I just always find that kind of thing off-putting. The forced-feeling surrogate parent stuff is why I couldn't warm up to Bobby for pretty much his entire run on the show, either.

5 minutes ago, Jediknight said:

I'd imagine Mick won't say a damn thing about Claire being bit, so Ketch won't know about Claire being bit.

I would think Mick is under surveillance (whether or not Mick himself knows it).

Mick was also more or less meant to be Sam's handler from jump, I think. The only surprise for the Old Men (or whoever) would probably be that Ketch isn't going to work as Dean's handler, but that Mick might be able to step in with him, too.

On the other hand, I think Mick is being pretty much genuine. I actually liked him pretty well in this episode. It would be interesting to know how he got mixed up in this supernatural stuff. Or did they tell us that already?!

[catrox14]

12 minutes ago, Katy M said:

There was one thing that bugged me about this epi.  I know people change and everything and it's been a long time, but Dean told Claire they could lock her up a few nights a month and she'd be golden, but he was adamant that wouldn't work with Madison because she would bust out some night and kill people.

This bugged me too. I can only attribute it to

1) Dean seeing Sam's heart breaking all over the place after he watched him kill Madison.
2) Garth being turned and living with his new wolf pack
3) They kind of lampshaded it with Dean saying 'Things are not as black and white as I used to think".

But yeah, that niggled at me too.

[rue721]

7 minutes ago, SueB said:

- I don't agree with the boys keeping secrets from Jody.  I understand its Claire's decision but at the same time, I think they should fold like a deck of cards if Jody interrogates them.  Of course we were saved that issue because Claire DID call Jody.

Honestly, I liked that they respected Claire's right to make her own decisions and keep her own secrets, and also that they're keeping their friendship with her separate from their friendship with Jodi. It made me think that their friendship with her is genuine and they actually care about her. They aren't just trying to be nice to her for Jodi and/or Cas's sake.

[SueB]

Just now, rue721 said:

Honestly, I liked that they respected Claire's right to make her own decisions and keep her own secrets, and also that they're keeping their friendship with her separate from their friendship with Jodi. It made me think that their friendship with her is genuine and they actually care about her. They aren't just trying to be nice to her for Jodi and/or Cas's sake.

Well, that's an excellent point.  But I'm not sure either Cas or Jodi will be happy with them if they find out.

[catrox14]

3 minutes ago, rue721 said:

I would think Mick is under surveillance (whether or not Mick himself knows it).

I suspect everyone is surveiled by the Old Men and they track all their movements.

[Katy M]

5 minutes ago, rue721 said:

This is probably just me, but I didn't like Claire calling Jodi her mother. I mean, Claire did have an actual mother, who left/died (forget) when Claire was like 8 or 12? To me, it's off-putting, like Claire is rewriting history.

You can have more than one mother figure in your life.  Her mom left when she was like 11 and then when they found her she died.  Jodie really filled a need and I don't find it history bashing, or disrespectful to Amelia for Claire to call Jodie her mother.

[catrox14]

Just now, SueB said:

Well, that's an excellent point.  But I'm not sure either Cas or Jodi will be happy with them if they find out.

I am REALLLLY concerned that unless Dean told Cas after the fact on their drive home or whatever, that this will cause a huge rift between Dean and Cas. 

But mostly why wasn't Cas even namedropped in this episode. That was a big problem for me when Claire's life is on the line. 

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

You can have more than one mother figure in your life.  Her mom left when she was like 11 and then when they found her she died.  Jodie really filled a need and I don't find it history bashing, or disrespectful to Amelia for Claire to call Jodie her mother.

I didn't think it was disrespectful as much as I thought it was just kind of eye-rolley when it had already been established as an acknowledged surrogate family with Jody and Alex in the episode last season.

[ZennyKenny]

I'm only halfway through the episode and all I can think of is WHY THE FUCK HASN'T ANYONE CALLED CAS?!?!?!?!

[MysteryGuest]

The lack of Cas mention was odd, but not surprising for these writers.  Doesn't Cas pretty much live with them now?  If not, where does he live?  He can't teleport, and as far as Sam and Dean know, he hasn't been back to heaven.  He isn't good at hunting, so where do they think he goes when he's off by himself like this?  It was a big miss, but the Cas/Heaven reveal is for a later episode. 

[SueB]

2 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

The lack of Cas mention was odd, but not surprising for these writers.  Doesn't Cas pretty much live with them now?  If not, where does he live?  He can't teleport, and as far as Sam and Dean know, he hasn't been back to heaven.  He isn't good at hunting, so where do they think he goes when he's off by himself like this?  It was a big miss, but the Cas/Heaven reveal is for a later episode. 

This.  It's a chronic blindspot -- out of sight, out of mind.  But in this case, I think it's on purpose to make the Cas story have more punch.

[Katy M]

OK, I'm going to go UO and just say that I don't mind that they didn't call Cas.  they didn't call him last season either.  Yes, he was Lucifer at that point, but Sam and Dean didn't know it yet.  Claire has a more complex relationship with Cas then she does with SAm and Dean and, honestly, I think the sight of him hurts her still.  she loved her dad and seeing Cas is just painful.  She may not hate him anymore, but I doubt she really wants to hang out with him.

As to where they think he is, they think he's looking for Kelly.  That's actually their number one priority right now, so they probably wouldn't want to bother him with a hunt of the week.  He may have been able to cure her, though. It depends on what the angel skills of the week are.

[MysteryGuest]

1 minute ago, Katy M said:

As to where they think he is, they think he's looking for Kelly.  That's actually their number one priority right now, so they probably wouldn't want to bother him with a hunt of the week.

Ah yes, I'd forgotten about the hunt for the ever elusive Kelly.  I do my best to block that entire storyline from my mind.

[Diane]

I really enjoyed this, I am thinking the story going into next season is Mick. What does everyone else think? I have no complaints, everyone except Claire was smart and she is still a teanager so that is understandable. Her call to Jody was sweet and lived that she really does think of her and Alex as her family. 

[catrox14]

7 minutes ago, Katy M said:

OK, I'm going to go UO and just say that I don't mind that they didn't call Cas.  they didn't call him last season either.  Yes, he was Lucifer at that point, but Sam and Dean didn't know it yet.  Claire has a more complex relationship with Cas then she does with SAm and Dean and, honestly, I think the sight of him hurts her still.  she loved her dad and seeing Cas is just painful.  She may not hate him anymore, but I doubt she really wants to hang out with him.

Claire and Cas parted on reasonably decent terms at the end of Angel Heart  She kept the Grumpy Cat he gave her, and she asked Dean to look out for him. Telling Cas wouldn't have been solely for her. It would have been for Cas as well. He deserved to know she was in difficulty. If Claire had said, "Please don't tell Cas" fine I would have been okay with it. But he wasn't mentioned at all.

[SueB]

I don't know about Mick surviving to next season but I agree, he's got the best chance.

I also LOVED Claire's commitment to Jody AND Alex.  

[rue721]

29 minutes ago, Katy M said:

You can have more than one mother figure in your life.  Her mom left when she was like 11 and then when they found her she died.  Jodie really filled a need and I don't find it history bashing, or disrespectful to Amelia for Claire to call Jodie her mother.

For sure, it's meant to be heart-warming. Pushing too hard on the surrogate parent thing just tends to rub me the wrong way. I have trouble "buying" it, because IMO how the show tends to present it is so simplistic. I mean, that's a bittersweet situation at best, so when the focus is skewed too far on the "sweet" part of it, it kind of perversely highlights the "bitter" part to me. YMMV.

To be fair, maybe the show tried to make Claire's feelings toward Jodi complex -- but Claire has never really felt "real" to me (emotionally), so it didn't really register. Also YMMV.

And I guess I am also looking at it within the context of the show having Mary (and Rowena TBH) in play right now. I don't really understand how Claire coming to call/think of Jodi as her mother reflects on Mary's storyline (or even Rowena's).

Edited March 31, 2017 by rue721

[Katy M]

Just now, rue721 said:

I don't really understand how Claire coming to call/think of Jodi as her mother reflects on Mary's storyline (or even Rowena's).

Why does it have to?  Why can't it just be its own thing?

[SueB]

Just now, rue721 said:

For sure, it's meant to be heart-warming. Pushing too hard on the surrogate parent thing just tends to rub me the wrong way. I have trouble "buying" it, because IMO how the show tends to present it is so simplistic. I mean, that's a bittersweet situation at best, so when the focus is skewed too far on the "sweet" part of it kind of perversely highlights the "bitter" part to me. YMMV.

To be fair, maybe the show tried to make Claire's feelings toward Jodi complex -- but Claire has never really felt "real" to me (emotionally), so it didn't really register. Also YMMV.

And I guess I am also looking at it within the context of the show having Mary (and Rowena TBH) in play right now. I don't really understand how Claire coming to call/think of Jodi as her mother reflects on Mary's storyline (or even Rowena's).

Jody rocks, Mary sucks, and Rowena truly is a horrible mother?   That's all I got.

[catrox14]

17 minutes ago, Katy M said:

As to where they think he is, they think he's looking for Kelly.  That's actually their number one priority right now, so they probably wouldn't want to bother him with a hunt of the week.  He may have been able to cure her, though. It depends on what the angel skills of the week are.

Cas was last seen at the end of 'Somewhere Between Heaven and Hell', going back to Heaven with Kelvin and NOT telling Dean. Given that Heaven is a dangerous place for Cas, and Dean not knowing he went, it should have been addressed in this episode, even more so since Claire's life was  in danger. 

[supernatural666]

Jody Rocks,Mary I am hoping will get better and Rowena I am sorry when you make me feel sorry for the King of Hell than you are the queen of bad mothers.

[rue721]

Just now, Katy M said:

Why does it have to?  Why can't it just be its own thing?

Maybe it doesn't have to. It just seems so coincidental to me. Like, Claire decides she has a new mother. There are these other mothers showing up out of the blue and coming into play. I guess my main question is, how do those storylines intersect?

1 minute ago, SueB said:

Jody rocks, Mary sucks, and Rowena truly is a horrible mother?   That's all I got.

Jodi's not actually Claire's mother, though. Amelia goes unmentioned. And likewise, Cas isn't mentioned, let alone Jimmy. Yet this random bartender guy asks if Dean is Claire's father because he's looking out for her.

Then, conversely, we've got these other, actually biologically related mothers running around either not looking out for their kids or actively trying to use their vulnerabilities against them. And neither of those mothers (Mary and Rowena) actually did raise their kids.

And at the same time, we've ALSO got Lucifer and Kelly becoming parents and not really being able to protect their baby or even know how to.

[catrox14]

31 minutes ago, ZennyKenny said:

I'm only halfway through the episode and all I can think of is WHY THE FUCK HASN'T ANYONE CALLED CAS?!?!?!?!

That was pretty much me, the entire episode.