S03.E06: Season 3, Episode 6

[smorbie]

21 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

I may have missed something but I don't remember anything being said about her sleeping with him multiple times. My impression was it was just that once and she immediately realized it was a mistake. I am not excusing her but Cath really doesn't come off well. The fact that she is perfectly willing to forgive her husband and move someplace else with him, this man who has cheated on her often and lied about money and she has admitted she really doesn't love but she is being this bitchy to Trish keeps me still on Trish's side.

You're right, it was just once, but once is enough.  I don't remember Trish's saying it was a mistake.  I think she more concerned with covering it up so Cath wouldn't know.  And her waltzing into the party into Cath's welcoming arms just a few hours after the deed was done is VERY troubling to me.  I'm having a hard time putting myself in her shoes because that's such a big taboo for me, but I can't see myself eagerly going to a party honoring the person I'd just stabbed in the back.  I dunno, I just can't see it.

I don't see it confessing to it as something heroic or done in an effort to come clean to Cath because of guilt.  We don't know whether she would have told anyone about if the rape hadn't occurred.  Remember she said it was going to come out anyway; it might as well be from her.  My feeling about that was like a politician having some secret and then releasing it to the media so he can control the narrative and get ahead of the story.

We also don't know whether she and Jim would have continued to see each other.  The woman we saw practically dancing her way down a red carpet as she made a grand entrance into Cath's party did not seem torn apart with guilt.

Edited August 4, 2017 by smorbie

[smorbie]

17 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Joe is such a worm. I don't think he's a monster (exactly), but he's a totally cowardly, nasty piece of crap

He is a quite accurate picture of a child molester.  I love your description.  If you spend a lot of time with them you do begin to see them as worms.  Very accurate.  

[phantom]

I actually teared up when Mark climbed into the water despite having so little sympathy for him in earlier episodes. He stalks and confronts Joe Miller and....nothing. Seeing him and hearing the story of his son's murder threw Mark into a brick wall. There was nothing for him to hold onto - no glimmer that he might have saved Danny, no legal recourse, no belief that if he got his hands on Joe that he would absolutely kill him with no remorse.  I can see Beth being ferociously angry at him taking the easy way out (in her eyes, not my opinion) and leaving her behind to raise the two surviving children and also live with the loss of Danny.  She did the impossible work of being able to put one foot in front of the other, likely fought off thoughts of suicide to be there for her kids and Mark just gets to give up?

I am so perplexed by all the potential suspects and evidence that leads in many directions. I am surprised Ed was arrested when the evidence against him isn't really any more incriminating than the evidence against Jim, the cabbie, the rapist or the twine factory kid.

Sort of OT: being an American I wondered if it would have been more likely for Mark to go ahead and kill Joe if the story took place in the U.S. and he had easy access to a handgun?

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, phantom said:

There was nothing for him to hold onto - no glimmer that he might have saved Danny, no legal recourse, no belief that if he got his hands on Joe that he would absolutely kill him with no remorse.

Yeah, I think, when he realized he was never going to be able to "get" Joe, he no longer had hope. I think he believed he would get closure by either getting Joe to confess on tape and having him arrested tried and finally locked up or by killing him. When he couldn't manage either of those things his sense of helplessness was just too much. I can see him thinking that if he can't get justice for his dead son, then what good is he to anyone? Not necessarily correct, but I don't think he had prepared himself for failure in his visit to Joe. I think he fully expected to kill him when the tape trick didn't work and when he couldn't...he just felt like the worst possible failure.

I do think most US shows would have had him kill Joe. Frontier justice and all that. Then he would go to jail and the family would lose him anyway. I think suicide is much more in keeping with his wimpy character though.

[kassygreene]

Mark lost a son and for a long time believed that he should have been able to do one thing differently to prevent it; Joe giving him the timeline conclusively proved he couldn't.  Oddly, Joe telling the truth was kind on its merits, telling Mark he didn't miss his chance, but in fact it was cruel because it took away Mark's last crutch.  Mark lost his only son, and I think our culture is still at the point where for some men having a son to carry on means the daughters are never going to be quite as important, and also have their mum to take care of them.  Beth survived the crucible that Mark could not, so she will take care of her daughters.  If she can do something as grindingly hard as ISVA, she can take care of her daughters in this.

Trish and Cath are best friends forever because they've known each other forever, and stayed in the same area forever and been in proximity forever.  But Cath is the perennially wronged wife, and Trish is the wife who booted out her cheating husband and set about promiscuously proving she was attractive while simultaneously shafting her not-yet-ex.  Neither of these are attractive characters.  I think that if either of them had left the area, or at least moved to the next village or two over, they would have let the "friendship" drop, because I don't think either likes the other.  The "friendship" is habit, cruising along on muscle memory.

[kassygreene]

9 minutes ago, Mabinogia said:

...

I do think most US shows would have had him kill Joe. Frontier justice and all that. Then he would go to jail and the family would lose him anyway. I think suicide is much more in keeping with his wimpy character though.

To me this is what makes Broadchurch realistic - until life sucker-punches you with a two-ton wrecking ball, you really don't know how strong or weak you are.   I lived through a workplace tragedy thirty (gulp) years ago, and part of my dealing with the grief was to occasionally mentally step back and analyze other people's behavior.  Some people were amazingly kind and thoughtful; some people would blurt out the first thing they thought regardless of who was in the room.  I got the opportunity to tell my own damn boss, who was pontificating that he would never let things get that out of control in his own life, that he was of course free to think and say what he wanted, but that the victims were friends of mine (which he knew), and that an even closer friend of theirs was on the other side of the cubicle partition from where he was standing and she didn't need to hear this either.

[jeansheridan]

On Friday, April 07, 2017 at 7:28 PM, sinkwriter said:

No, Trish didn't deserve to be raped, but that doesn't get to be part of the conversation when you tell me that you slept with my husband multiple times...

I thought it was the once. And Kathy chose to go there. I guess I don't have much sympathy for Kathy (or the cabbie's wife) for staying with jerks. Kathy doesn't even have children to explain staying.

I am looking at Jim again. Woman's car breaks down and the tow truck driver never shows. He has a tow truck. He has fishing gear he never uses. He sleeps around which doesn't mean he isn't a rapist. 

[jeansheridan]

On Wednesday, August 02, 2017 at 8:54 PM, mjc570 said:

Ellie  has been awful to her from the very beginning, for reasons that Ellie herself admitted had nothing to do with Katie. 

I agree Ellie wasn't as friendly as I would have expected but Katie was so smug too.  I like that the writers captured this older woman/younger woman dynamic. It added layers to Ellie. She isn't all sugar. 

But she was supportive when the rapist cornered Katie in the car. I did see a thaw there. And Ellie let her bring him in. 

I think Katie deserved a dressing down. She made it personal and Ellie let her have it.

On the other hand, Ellie needs help with Tom. Her screaming approach is ineffective.  He is withdrawing more. And while porn is unpleasant,  come on! I read racy books at his age. I peaked at the porn mags at my friend's house. Teens are curious. Screaming at him doesn't allow for discussion. 

[smorbie]

8 hours ago, phantom said:

I actually teared up when Mark climbed into the water despite having so little sympathy for him in earlier episodes. He stalks and confronts Joe Miller and....nothing. Seeing him and hearing the story of his son's murder threw Mark into a brick wall. There was nothing for him to hold onto - no glimmer that he might have saved Danny, no legal recourse, no belief that if he got his hands on Joe that he would absolutely kill him with no remorse.  I can see Beth being ferociously angry at him taking the easy way out (in her eyes, not my opinion) and leaving her behind to raise the two surviving children and also live with the loss of Danny.  She did the impossible work of being able to put one foot in front of the other, likely fought off thoughts of suicide to be there for her kids and Mark just gets to give up?

I am so perplexed by all the potential suspects and evidence that leads in many directions. I am surprised Ed was arrested when the evidence against him isn't really any more incriminating than the evidence against Jim, the cabbie, the rapist or the twine factory kid.

Sort of OT: being an American I wondered if it would have been more likely for Mark to go ahead and kill Joe if the story took place in the U.S. and he had easy access to a handgun?

Unknowable.  I'm sure it's easier to fire a gun than to knife someone because it's less personal.  But, I don't think Mark's a killer.  He's a creature of the moment and he used his energy in confronting Joe to begin with.

6 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Yeah, I think, when he realized he was never going to be able to "get" Joe, he no longer had hope. I think he believed he would get closure by either getting Joe to confess on tape and having him arrested tried and finally locked up or by killing him. When he couldn't manage either of those things his sense of helplessness was just too much. I can see him thinking that if he can't get justice for his dead son, then what good is he to anyone? Not necessarily correct, but I don't think he had prepared himself for failure in his visit to Joe. I think he fully expected to kill him when the tape trick didn't work and when he couldn't...he just felt like the worst possible failure.

I do think most US shows would have had him kill Joe. Frontier justice and all that. Then he would go to jail and the family would lose him anyway. I think suicide is much more in keeping with his wimpy character though.

I don't think suicide is a cowardly way.  It usually occurs when the person feels in a trap and sees no way out.  For them, the only answer seems to be a final one.  The only coward there is Joe.

[Mabinogia]

10 minutes ago, smorbie said:

I don't think suicide is a cowardly way.  It usually occurs when the person feels in a trap and sees no way out.  For them, the only answer seems to be a final one.  The only coward there is Joe.

Believe me, I know there is nothing cowardly about suicide. I know that is not an easy decision to make. I do think that Mark is impulsive and didn't entirely think it through, what it would do to Chloe, to the other daughter whose name I never quite catch or to Beth who has already been through so much and lost so much. But I think he was already lost, killing his body was a formality at that point.

I do think that Mark isn't really a confrontational person. He strikes me as wanting to be but when it comes to it, he just isn't. I think he wanted so badly to kill Joe but when it came to it, he just couldn't take another human beings life. Not a bad thing at all. I think that, unlike Joe, Mark felt a heavy guilt at what happened to his son and it was too much for him. Joe, however, seems just fine. He really didn't seem all that choked up about losing his family and his friends. He's probably got another woman lined up and he's got a new job and a place to live, he has a fresh start. That is something Mark was never going to get now that he knows he can't kill Joe.

It's just so tragic. I can't even imagine how you deal with the details of what happened. Your son being preyed on by someone you trusted, killed by this person and then watching this person walk away a free man. I want to kill Joe and I know these people are fictional. It just pisses me off that much.

I think that's a huge part of why Ellie is so yelly all the time too. Especially with her son. She now knows that her husband was a sexual deviant. She can't not worry that Tom might have inherited that in some way. I wonder if she ever took Tom to see a therapist. I can't imagine what it is like for him, either, knowing your father murdered your best friend. Joe fucked over a LOT of people when he murdered that innocent boy. And he doesn't even have to deal with the wreckage.

[smorbie]

1 minute ago, Mabinogia said:

23 minutes ago, smorbie said:

I don't think suicide is a cowardly way.  It usually occurs when the person feels in a trap and sees no way out.  For them, the only answer seems to be a final one.  The only coward there is Joe.

Believe me, I know there is nothing cowardly about suicide. I know that is not an easy decision to make. I do think that Mark is impulsive and didn't entirely think it through, what it would do to Chloe, to the other daughter whose name I never quite catch or to Beth who has already been through so much and lost so much. But I think he was already lost, killing his body was a formality at that point.

I do think that Mark isn't really a confrontational person. He strikes me as wanting to be but when it comes to it, he just isn't. I think he wanted so badly to kill Joe but when it came to it, he just couldn't take another human beings life. Not a bad thing at all. I think that, unlike Joe, Mark felt a heavy guilt at what happened to his son and it was too much for him. Joe, however, seems just fine. He really didn't seem all that choked up about losing his family and his friends. He's probably got another woman lined up and he's got a new job and a place to live, he has a fresh start. That is something Mark was never going to get now that he knows he can't kill Joe.

It's just so tragic. I can't even imagine how you deal with the details of what happened. Your son being preyed on by someone you trusted, killed by this person and then watching this person walk away a free man. I want to kill Joe and I know these people are fictional. It just pisses me off that much.

I think that's a huge part of why Ellie is so yelly all the time too. Especially with her son. She now knows that her husband was a sexual deviant. She can't not worry that Tom might have inherited that in some way. I wonder if she ever took Tom to see a therapist. I can't imagine what it is like for him, either, knowing your father murdered your best friend. Joe fucked over a LOT of people when he murdered that innocent boy. And he doesn't even have to deal with the wreckage.

Nope, he walked away scot free and all his whining about what he lost just made me want to shove him into the sea.  A kid died, Mark, Beth, Chloe, Ellie, and Tom lost everything and had to somehow pick up and go on.  But Joe "can't do" prison, so he just walks away.  

You're right about Mark.  He is a creature of the moment.  When his plan fell apart, he didn't know what to do.  He's not really a planner; so revenge would be difficult for him.

[Mabinogia]

5 minutes ago, smorbie said:

But Joe "can't do" prison, so he just walks away.  

That just...I've never been so furious at a fictional character in my life. Did he expect Mark to feel bad for him? WTF? You murdered a child fuckhead, you deserve to rot in prison and whatever else those prisoners can think of to do to you. Hmmm, guess I do have one instance where what you've done justifies you being raped in my mind. Because seriously, I can't think of a punishment strong enough for what Joe did and continues to do by living as a free man because he's too much of a selfish shit to pay for his crime.

[kassygreene]

2 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

...

On the other hand, Ellie needs help with Tom. Her screaming approach is ineffective.  He is withdrawing more. And while porn is unpleasant,  come on! I read racy books at his age. I peaked at the porn mags at my friend's house. Teens are curious. Screaming at him doesn't allow for discussion. 

As I recall, Tom was selling links to porn, but I'm not going back to watch.  And with his father's history (which is known to the community), his being known as the porn-pusher is not something that will serve him (or his brother) well in later life.

[Last Time Lord]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

That just...I've never been so furious at a fictional character in my life. Did he expect Mark to feel bad for him? WTF? You murdered a child fuckhead, you deserve to rot in prison and whatever else those prisoners can think of to do to you. Hmmm, guess I do have one instance where what you've done justifies you being raped in my mind. Because seriously, I can't think of a punishment strong enough for what Joe did and continues to do by living as a free man because he's too much of a selfish shit to pay for his crime.

I want to buy this post a nice steak dinner from a very expensive restaurant. 

[raven]

Tom isn't going to listen to Ellie if she's yelling at him.  Ellie was in the right in everything she said, but the dinner scene opens with her already in a bad mood (not that I blame her) so every remark by her Dad and Tom is met with a snarl.  Like aggressively asking Tom "you know about consent" which is a conversation they need to have, but not at the dinner table while she's practically yelling it at him.   Whether her anger is justified or not, her kid isn't going to listen to her at that stage.  Sort of like if he's dating someone and she tells him stop - he's not going to.   Ellie is the adult here and Tom being the son of Joe Miller must be difficult for him but she doesn't attempt to address any of that, rather she just reacts to what he's doing and obviously Grandpa isn't watching him that closely. 

Ellie is angry because this is a difficult, emotional case and the issue with Katie must remind her of Joe.  Ellie must second guess herself on that one - what did I miss, were there red flags, what could I have done to prevent it.   And Joe wasn't even a suspect (I think?)!  Ellie knows, better than Hardy or Katie, that Katie could, even subconsciously, be missing things.  

I find the Cath and Trish scenes so interesting and uncomfortable.   Normally they would need each other and be there for each other but that can't happen now.  I do like that Trish has some rougher edges - I mean, really, telling Cath "maybe if you gave him what he needed".

12 hours ago, smorbie said:

But...just as Trish is the victim of a rapist, Cath is the victim of Trish.  And I think in that circumstance she was using offensive as a defense against her own guilt.  It does seem like she's been covering up a lot of anger at Cath.  As to her feeling justified...I'm getting the feeling she just does what she wants.  She certainly didn't act like she felt guilty when she ran in and embraced Cath the night of the party.

I agree with this analysis.  I thought the same thing - the day that Trish slept with Cath's husband, she runs up and joyfully embraces Cath at the party.  Wow, that take some serious self-justification as well as a lack of guilt or shame. 

The scenes with Mark and Joe are well acted and I know the show is trying to come full circle but I'm not really moved by it all.  I'm more invested in the current case. 

[jeansheridan]

13 hours ago, kassygreene said:

recall, Tom was selling links to porn, but I'm not going back to watch.  

He was so yeah, gross, but how can screaming at him help? Yelling worked once at the courthouse.  

She did get him therapy. It was mentioned if not shown in season 2. Where is the baby however?  We haven't seen him once. Of course it has only been like a week in show time.

I just think Ellie is losing it more than a bit. People don't inherit their deviance. He was around his father a lot for at least three years (after the baby was born) but we have no indication Joe was grooming him. 

I do think it sucks for him that he has to go to school around people who know. He will always be Joe Miller's kid and Danny's friend. Moving away would have been better in my opinion. It isn't like an embarrassing photo (Daisy). There is too much ugliness. Murder, pedophile father , best friend, clueless and betrayed mother. Way too much for a kid to cope with.

[Mabinogia]

32 minutes ago, jeansheridan said:

I do think it sucks for him that he has to go to school around people who know. He will always be Joe Miller's kid and Danny's friend. Moving away would have been better in my opinion. It isn't like an embarrassing photo (Daisy). There is too much ugliness. Murder, pedophile father , best friend, clueless and betrayed mother. Way too much for a kid to cope with.

Poor Tom is yet another victim of his fathers assholeyness. I agree that Ellie yelling isn't solving anything, but she's also not a therapist but a single mom who's husband got away with murdering a child, everyone in town knows about it and knows she failed at her job. She and Tom both need separate and family therapy. Joe really fucked them up and over in ways he will never have to deal with because he ran away like the worm he is.

It is interesting that the show is focusing on the aftermath of Joe's crime as it affects the Latimers but isn't really showing how it has to be affecting the Millers. They were his victims too. They may not have lost a family member but Tom did lose his best friend. They should have made the trial portion of last season only half the season and then focused on the fallout there because it really is a story worth telling.

[smorbie]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

It is interesting that the show is focusing on the aftermath of Joe's crime as it affects the Latimers but isn't really showing how it has to be affecting the Millers. T

Isn't It?  I think we're getting a pretty clear picture.

[Mabinogia]

The only affect I see in Tom is that he watches porn, which could have nothing at all to do with his dad. Really, is he having trouble in school? Is he an outcast now? He gets yelled at by his mom but I think that might have happened anyway. Sure we see Ellie is tightly wound, but is anyone else blaming her? Or is she just blaming herself? IDK, Ellie and Tom don't seem any different than season 1 other than a bit sadder maybe. All I can remember seeing of Tom this season is him showing his friend porn, being in trouble at school because of porn and getting caught by his mom for having porn. I just don't know if any of that is because of Joe. I'd say no, it's because he's a teenage boy. lol I guess his being kind of quiet is because of what happened with his dad.

[Irlandesa]

On 8/4/2017 at 11:30 AM, kassygreene said:

Trish and Cath are best friends forever because they've known each other forever, and stayed in the same area forever and been in proximity forever.  But Cath is the perennially wronged wife, and Trish is the wife who booted out her cheating husband and set about promiscuously proving she was attractive while simultaneously shafting her not-yet-ex.  Neither of these are attractive characters.  I think that if either of them had left the area, or at least moved to the next village or two over, they would have let the "friendship" drop, because I don't think either likes the other.  The "friendship" is habit, cruising along on muscle memory.

It is a habit.  Distance might have ended it or made it stronger since they wouldn't have always been such a huge part of each other's lives.  I do like that we're getting different sides to Trish.  She's a victim. I feel sorry for her.  But she did sleep with her best friend's husband.  And there's a side to her coming out where she is defiant about that choice.  She didn't seem worried about telling Cath about the affair.  In fact, I was getting the sense that she didn't mind at all.  And her words in this episode made me suspect that there is some long term resentment that had been festering from when they were schoolgirls.  I like the choice.  She is a character that isn't defined by her rape.  

On 8/4/2017 at 4:57 PM, jeansheridan said:

I think Katie deserved a dressing down. She made it personal and Ellie let her have it.

In addition, before she told them about the relationship, she disobeyed a direct order from Ellie so she could sit and watch the interrogation.  Her involvement doesn't just affect the case if Ed is the prime suspect.  It also has an effect if he is not.  Let's say they arrest someone else.  Ed is suddenly a great alternative candidate for the defense to use.  They could argue that Katie got rid of more evidence against him.

Edited August 5, 2017 by Irlandesa

[Voice of Joy]

11 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Poor Tom is yet another victim of his fathers assholeyness. I agree that Ellie yelling isn't solving anything, but she's also not a therapist but a single mom who's husband got away with murdering a child, everyone in town knows about it and knows she failed at her job. She and Tom both need separate and family therapy

Yes, Ellie is a single mom dealing with a nearly teenage boy, which is tough enough without all the baggage Joe brings to the picture.  Tom could do with a decent moral father figure.

 

Likewise, Hardy is a single father dealing with a teenage daughter, a formidable job in its own right.  Daisy could use an adult woman who could mentor her and give her someone to help understand her dad.

 

Just sayin'.  *grin*

[jeansheridan]

The writers have dropped the ball on Tom. It's been 2 years since the trial. During the trial he was furious with his mother and then Ellie broke through. But I feel like the writers stopped Tom's growth right there. Chloe has evolved a bit so they are capable of putting more thought into him. They just didn't other to make him a complication for Ellie.

Tom also had that weird relationship with Mark last season too. Basically Tom is way secretive. 

I just can't be mad at Trish and I love her daughter.  "Dad, don't be weird." Direct and accurate!  Go Leah. I think Daisy could use a friend.

[jeansheridan]

You know what I love?  David Tennant is the lead but we are talking mostly about the women. Because this season focused on women and added two girls plus four more female roles. Kind of cool. And I give the writers credit for finding a way for Beth to be relevant to the current case. It feels organic.

[Mabinogia]

It is pretty cool to have such a female oriented season. And they are all such complex, different, and fully realized women. Each one can be seen as victim and victimizer. None of them are all saint or all sinner. Each of the actresses is doing an amazing job with these well developed characters.

I do like the way they are using Beth. It makes sense that given what she has been through she would want to channel that into helping others. It both makes sense and keeps her on the show. I also have to admit this is the most I've ever liked Beth. I've always thought the actress was great but Beth was a hard character to like. I felt horrible for her, but never quite liked her. A bit like what is happening with Trish. I sympathize for what she's going through and the actress is amazing, but I don't exactly like Trish.

For me that's the sign of good writing and acting, that I can still care about a character and want to see how their story plays out even if I wouldn't want to hang out with them.

[smorbie]

9 hours ago, jeansheridan said:

The writers have dropped the ball on Tom. It's been 2 years since the trial. During the trial he was furious with his mother and then Ellie broke through. But I feel like the writers stopped Tom's growth right there. Chloe has evolved a bit so they are capable of putting more thought into him. They just didn't other to make him a complication for Ellie.

Tom also had that weird relationship with Mark last season too. Basically Tom is way secretive. 

I just can't be mad at Trish and I love her daughter.  "Dad, don't be weird." Direct and accurate!  Go Leah. I think Daisy could use a friend.

This season feels tacked on to me.  It makes me think they had a two-year story and then got an unexpected third year to fill.  I'm not complaining.  I'm really enjoying it, but it just has that feel.  It may be the time jump.  But if you look at the ending of last season, it seemed we had a happy ever after.  The stranger with a new lease on life got into a cab and drove away, the families meeting on the beach, Mark seeming so happy with his little baby and his family, and Beth with her hand in his pocket.  It felt like the story was told, you know?

[jeansheridan]

53 minutes ago, smorbie said:

Mark seeming so happy with his little baby and his family, and Beth with her hand in his pocket.  It felt like the story was told, you know?

I know what you mean. It was a happy ending but everyone wanted more, including me. I just wanted another case! I didn't need Mark & Beth or Chloe. Messed up Tom would have been okay but introducing Ellie's father in such a minimal way seemed strange. 

At least the case is good and thus should be it.

[smorbie]

I agree.  If they had moved on without pulling so much of the first case into it, It would have flowed better.  They could have shown Ellie's having trouble with Tom.  It's hard for a woman to give a boy that age what he needs.  She could have turned to Mark for help and that would have been natural.  They could have used that to show that Mark was really having a hard time with it.  That, in turn, could have led to his confrontation with Joe.  And, to my mind, it would have flowed better.  But, I don't get paid to write the show.  so, they didn't call me for my opinion. If they had I would have insisted upon more Hardy and Millah time.

[ghoulina]

16 hours ago, Voice of Joy said:

Yes, Ellie is a single mom dealing with a nearly teenage boy, which is tough enough without all the baggage Joe brings to the picture.  Tom could do with a decent moral father figure.

 

Likewise, Hardy is a single father dealing with a teenage daughter, a formidable job in its own right.  Daisy could use an adult woman who could mentor her and give her someone to help understand her dad.

 

Just sayin'.  *grin*

I do NOT want to see them together romantically. Because it's so rare that a series shows a great friendship between a male and female lead, and leaves it at that. But it would be cool if they took a more active role in each other's personal lives and helped each other out a bit. 

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, smorbie said:

This season feels tacked on to me.  It makes me think they had a two-year story and then got an unexpected third year to fill.  

I seem to recall reading back in season 1 that the creator always envisioned this as a three season/series show.  So I don't think this third season was unexpected.  But I do agree that it feels very divorced from previous seasons (although I quit pretty early in the second season because I didn't like how much focus was still on Season 1 events--this season feels like an okay balance for me.)

This is actually how I actually envisioned all seasons to go with different cases.  In fact, I think it might be my favorite.

[smorbie]

I think season 2 was the weakest of the three.  I thought it would be a different story each year.  The fact that the second season focused so much on the trial, I guess, tied the two together in a way that doesn't seem to be there this time.  It's probably just me.  But, this story is really good and any time Tennant is on screen I'm happy.

[jeansheridan]

55 minutes ago, smorbie said:

But, this story is really good and any time Tennant is on screen I'm happy.

Definitely.  I am just nitpicking a good show. And Tennant is always a delight except in Gracepoint. Proof that Olivia Coleman cannot be replaced even by a good actress.

[atlantaloves]

I love Olivia...she killed it, literally, in the Night Manager!  

[Last Time Lord]

On 8/6/2017 at 2:55 PM, Irlandesa said:

I seem to recall reading back in season 1 that the creator always envisioned this as a three season/series show.  So I don't think this third season was unexpected.  But I do agree that it feels very divorced from previous seasons (although I quit pretty early in the second season because I didn't like how much focus was still on Season 1 events--this season feels like an okay balance for me.)

Yeah, in season two, I was far more invested in the Sandbrook stuff than Joe's trial. 

A lot of that is because it was a good exercise in what not to do in a trial. 

To put it another way, Punisher's trial in Season 2 of Daredevil greatly annoyed my friend. Broadchurch's would give him an Aneurysm. 

[Nessie]

On 4/4/2017 at 11:10 PM, Eri said:

I have to give it to Hardy and Miller - they may be workaholics but they try so hard to do right by their children. I was quite emotional seeing him pouring his heart out to Daisy given his usual stoic nature. He's always more endearing when he wants to do the right thing even when he doesn't have the words. Meanwhile Miller continues to lay on the tough love with Tom - I suspect she's fed up to a point where she wants to beat the crap out of every male in Broadchurch and I can't say I blame her because they all act despicable.

A lot of the women aren't exactly covering themselves in glory, either.  There's a whole lot of shady people in Broadchurch.  Doesn't stop me from wanting to move there, though...

[Voice of Joy]

On 8/6/2017 at 1:53 PM, ghoulina said:

I do NOT want to see them together romantically. Because it's so rare that a series shows a great friendship between a male and female lead, and leaves it at that. But it would be cool if they took a more active role in each other's personal lives and helped each other out a bit. 

I get that.  There are only two episodes left, so it's not like there would be any time for any real exploration of that.  All I'm asking/hoping for is an ambiguous end to their relationship - something like Daisy decides to stay in Broadchurch with her dad, and they invited Ellie and her family over for dinner.  It would be a good bookend to S1 when Miller informed Hardy he would be coming over for dinner, because that's what you do in Broadchurch.

[Mabinogia]

Yeah, they can be good rolemodels for each others kids without being in a romance. They can be a makeshift family without it being romantic. They have become friends enough that I could see Hardy asking Miller to talk to his daughter if she needs someone.

[Milburn Stone]

The woman who was raped and doesn't want to come forward? I'm on her team. Now, of course, if she did feel OK coming forward, that would be good for all the reasons the counselors are saying. She could help catch a rapist before he rapes again. But there's no guarantee of that, and at the end of the day, she's entitled to her privacy. Beth's attempt to lay a guilt trip on her pissed me off.

[April Bloodgate]

On 8/5/2017 at 4:54 PM, Irlandesa said:

In addition, before she told them about the relationship, she disobeyed a direct order from Ellie so she could sit and watch the interrogation.  Her involvement doesn't just affect the case if Ed is the prime suspect.  It also has an effect if he is not.  Let's say they arrest someone else.  Ed is suddenly a great alternative candidate for the defense to use.  They could argue that Katie got rid of more evidence against him.

Yep, that was inexcusable. Plus, as far as I can remember, the times Ellie has been gruff with her before have been because of something Katie did, like suggesting Trish was making up the rape allegations or questioning Hardy's tactics in the investigation. I don't think she's shown herself to be appropriate to her superiors. 

[Roseanna]

On ‎8‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 5:42 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I don't think Mark cares more about Danny than his two daughters. I think that Mark is so obsessed with his own guilt that the thought never crossed his mind that he would be hurting what was left of his family. I think he also felt guilty that he couldn't kill Joe and realized that he did have it in him to kill himself so he saw it as a kind of penance for not saving Danny and not avenging Danny's death by killing Joe. I'm not excusing his actions or rationalizing his decisions though. If he realized that he would be giving Chloe a lifetime of guilt, I don't think he could have gone through with it.

I think that Mark feels guilty also, but for another reason. His obsession to get justice done to his son's murderer is partly due the accusation Jim said to him when in prison in the end S1: that he was a bad father and that's why Danny turned to him to get love and support. (Jim refused to see admit he "bought" Danny's love with money and smartphone.)

Also, Mark probably feels guilty for his fling which prevented him to notice that Danny wasn't at home. 

I believe that it's because of his guilt Mark has been unable to cope, unlike Beth whose sorrow is pure.  Also, Mark has refused help whereas Beth accepted it.

[Roseanna]

On ‎4‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 7:03 PM, NorthstarATL said:

  Beth annoyed me too this episode. I know she's healthier for having moved on and all, but, maybe it's because my friend's son's birthday was this week, and his death as a teen is still a tragedy we all mark, when she was telling her fellow counselor about how she was shaken by having to accompany Trish to the police to give her statement, I assumed it would be because the police station would trigger all the stuff with Danny, but, no, it was because she felt empathy with Trish, which, again, isn't a bad thing, but sort of makes it seem that she's forgotten her son in way.

If Beth had thought about her own son, she would be unable to help Trish and should quit her job. 

Of course Beth hasn't forgotten her own son, but she can block it away and fully concentrate on Trish and her daughers when she is with them.  It's the same with Ellie: if she isn't able to block Jim's crime away when she is working, she couldn't work as a police. 

[Roseanna]

On ‎4‎.‎8‎.‎2017 at 4:13 PM, smorbie said:

You're right, it was just once, but once is enough.  I don't remember Trish's saying it was a mistake.  I think she more concerned with covering it up so Cath wouldn't know.  And her waltzing into the party into Cath's welcoming arms just a few hours after the deed was done is VERY troubling to me.  I'm having a hard time putting myself in her shoes because that's such a big taboo for me, but I can't see myself eagerly going to a party honoring the person I'd just stabbed in the back.  I dunno, I just can't see it.

I don't see it confessing to it as something heroic or done in an effort to come clean to Cath because of guilt.  We don't know whether she would have told anyone about if the rape hadn't occurred.  Remember she said it was going to come out anyway; it might as well be from her.  My feeling about that was like a politician having some secret and then releasing it to the media so he can control the narrative and get ahead of the story.

We also don't know whether she and Jim would have continued to see each other.  The woman we saw practically dancing her way down a red carpet as she made a grand entrance into Cath's party did not seem torn apart with guilt.

I agree. 

Plus, Trish wasn't even so madly in love that she "couldn't help herself" after struggling months with her conscience.

It was just getting sex and that she could have gotten from other men than Jim, or if any men whe liked enough weren't avaivable, then with her own. 

But for the story this is a good ploy: nothing which Trish did or didn't before, doesn't matter to it how her being raped is dealt.

[Llywela]

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

I think that Mark feels guilty also, but for another reason. His obsession to get justice done to his son's murderer is partly due the accusation Jim said to him when in prison

 

6 hours ago, Roseanna said:

It's the same with Ellie: if she isn't able to block Jim's crime away when she is working, she couldn't work as a police. 

I think you are getting your Jims and your Joes a bit confused here ;)

[Roseanna]

On ‎8‎.‎4‎.‎2017 at 5:26 PM, Ceindreadh said:

To me the final scenes there show that Mark cared more about his dead son than his living daughters. 

Yes, but thinking anew and remembering how he S2 loved the new baby, I think that he would probably have moved on, if Joe had been condemned, Which again showed how selfish Joe was: because he "could go to prison" and pay for his crime, he didn't care a bit what he did to others.

His whining how he "lost everything" (that is, it was Ellie and other's fault that he had no family and had to move from B) was disgusting: he destroyed everything.