S12.E17: In The Dark

[Danielg342]

At least with Harris and Owen (from "Elephant's Memory") the episode was clear Reid saw something of him in them. I fail to see what he saw in Luis.

[R3volver]

Just now, Danielg342 said:

At least with Harris and Owen (from "Elephant's Memory") the episode was clear Reid saw something of him in them. I fail to see what he saw in Luis.

Maybe innocence.  I know we don't know if Luis was innocent or not, but maybe Reid believed him.  Or maybe it was because he noticed he was a young kid who seemed scared so he felt compassionate.  I'm not sure.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

-  Now this was truly a worthy case wasted because of the A-plot - Reid's situation - it shared time with.  I actually wasn't cringing or mentally yelling at them to hurry it up and go back to Reid & the prison.  But because the main focus is on Reid, I couldn't invest totally into the UnSub's plight.

-  Why do I have a feeling they are going to turn Luis' death into an angst fest where Reid blames Shaw & Alvez for protecting him (Reid)?  I can already feel the heavy sigh full of 'so predictable' coming on.

-  Not trying to make light of the whole situation but I gotta say, compared to Luis' face, Reid got off pretty easy.  Only some fading bruising, compared to cuts and other open wounds for Luis.

-  They really messed up with the decision to play this all out as these certain people are incredibly concerned about Reid and now its these people's crack at it turn-based on-&-off episode 'style'.  For instance, we had those really strong Reid&JJ moments last week, but this week - if one didn't know better - you'd almost think that if asked about it, she'd respond with "Who's Reid??".   Just going by what we've been shown on-screen, Prentiss is the only one who's been allowed to show any consistency about her concern for Reid and the whole situation.  It is just jarring when one episode JJ [for example] is 'distracted' by worrying about Reid, then the next episode not even a peep or mention of it at all, but then the following week will find us spending a decent portion of the hour exploring her Reid concerns.  I guess she & Rossi are riding that 'hope high' from last week still.

-  Just get them together already, Show.  God.  These Garvez moments are so syrupy-thick sweet, I need waffles to digest them... and then a strong antacid chaser.

[Kara101]

I also didn't really like the hetero-flexible joke, and I can't really pinpoint exactly why. Something about it just seemed a bit distasteful to me. I also think "situational homosexuality" would have been a better term, but I'm probably being too picky. Also, while homosexual activities do often occur in prison, I don't think it's extremely widespread or anything. Even though my research on that topic solely consists of reading reddit AMA's of former inmates, so I really have no idea what I'm talking about. 

Edited March 23, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[zannej]

I'm lazy so I'm copying and pasting what I wrote elsewhere.

Maybe it's because I'm in a better mood, but I actually enjoyed this one. It did have it's flaws, but it was much better than last week's crapfest.

I actually liked Garcia in this one. Having her crying alone in her office because she was upset about Reid actually made sense.

I'm still really liking Alvez. I like that he is kind to Garcia despite her being cold to him a lot of the time. And I like that he is looking out for Reid. Interesting that they said he's slower than the rest of the team, so they aren't trying to make him out to be a genius, but he does his research and it seems like he figured out things about Shaw that the prosecutor's hadn't.

JJ and Prentiss seemed to be barely there most of the time. I don't really remember much of their contributions-- but I did have to go to the kitchen to get something for my mother so I might have missed something.

This was the first episode I watched with my mother in a long time. So she made some comments and nitpicks as well.

She liked Garcia's line about a cheetah on a lightning something (can't remember what it was).
When they mentioned they were going to check for people with a history of sleepwalking, Mom said "But they can't see people's medical records!" and I had to explain to her that they regularly ignore that rule and have Garcia hack medical stuff all the time. I guess the writer for this episode was not aware that it is illegal to hack people's medical files like that. So saying to the police that they were going to search for that was just plain bad.

I actually liked Walker in this one. He showed a bit more personality. The bit about "I was hoping you wouldn't remember that. This is why I don't give pep talks" cracked me up.

The case was somewhat interesting to me-- and since it was fictional-- I was laughing when the poacher got shot while trying to shoot a deer.

I also found it amusing that the coroner pointed out that thus far the victims had all been people who were not well-liked.

My mother guessed that the unsub was sleepwalking and blurted that out and then bragged about how she figured it out before the BAU team did. LOL.

I will say that sometimes injuries/pain can cause people to wake up. My brother used to sleepwalk and one day he fell down some steps and woke up in pain and started crying. But, I can buy that a loud gunshot could wake someone up. I did think "I hope Rossi is paying for that chair he just shot". LOL.

I think one of the things that worked for me was that the actor playing the unsub was believable. He seemed like sort of an evil zombie while sleepwalking, but he was also believably upset when he woke up. He's one of the unsubs we are supposed to sympathize with-- and it was clear that the guy just wasn't right mentally.
Also, the guy sleepwalking to places he knew actually made sense.

There wasn't much with Reid, but what they had was pretty good-- although, this is about the 4th episode in a row that has ended with Reid screaming for help within the last few minutes.

The heteroflexible thing cracked me up. I suspect that maybe Shaw is up to something sinister and he is pretending that he's not the bad guy but that the other's are. I don't think he's warning Reid not to do things because it's not how it is done in prison-- I think he's running things and doesn't want Reid to find out and interfere. I highly suspect he ordered those guys to kill Reid's friend. Dude looked like he was dying. I've heard that people can have heart attacks and the guards will ignore all of the calls for help and not check on people for hours.

I had to call BS on Reid's lawyer not being able to do something about him being in genpop. If the orders were for him to be in protective custody (and we know that they were), then she could go to the DA or warden or someone higher up the chain. Having him in genpop is just so contrived.

I agree that getting an earlier trial date is not that great if they have found zero evidence to exonerate him. Unless they are talking about him getting some sort of appeal to get bail. I really think the lawyer should have requested another hearing to ask for bail or have the court order them to put Reid in a safer place-- especially since Reid was attacked. And if the lawyer knew that a guard threatened him, they might be more likely to transfer him back to smalltime jail or put him in protective custody.

I was somewhat distracted at the end by the clear raincoat (or whatever it was) that Garcia was wearing. I kept trying to figure out if it was a rain coat or if it was some sort of fashion statement. But at least Garcia finally called Alvez "Luke" and not "Newbie" so I was happy with that.

I'm really hoping they won't have Reid do something majorly stupid-- but with the Erica Messer solo episode coming up, I'm afraid it will be stupid. She does not write well for Reid at all and she likes to have overly contrived stories with people acting out of character.

Adding that I agree that Fiona sucks. The whole "I can only give suggestions thing". Um, no. You go to the DA / court and get THEM to enforce the protective custody thing. If someone was ordered to be in protective custody and they've been placed in genpop and were harmed, they need to raise hell and move him to protective custody before they have a hefty lawsuit filed against them. That is straight up negligence.

[Old Dog]

None of this Reid in prison arc makes sense. I cannot see why it's a good thing that Fiona will get him before a jury quickly when no-one seems to have been or is doing anything to prove him innocent. The team seem mostly unconcerned about the situation except for team member of the week to show concern - this week Garcia. And why was Garcia not pushing Prentiss to do something to get Reid out of genpop if she was that upset?

I dislike Alvez intensely especially as he seems to be the character with most focus this season. I know Reid has the big story and the long arc but Alvez seems to be front and centre most of the time and I simply cannot stand him and especially I hate the nonsense between him and Garcia.

The case this week - well I will admit to a few seconds where there was a frisson of excitement when the unsub was trying to knife his way through the door, even though you knew the team would rock up in time to save the girl.

And I'm sorry but Paget Brewster is just reading lines, not much acting or personality going on there. It just makes me miss Hotch more and more. How many more episodes have we got before Reid gets out?

[normasm]

This one was weird. Just weird. The A case was over-the-top ridiculous, even for recent writing (I realize the writer was the non-writer for this year, and I didn't expect much). It also took up way too much time for the balance of the episode, but, really, maybe it being a little Reid-lite is a good thing in this circumstance. Thank the gods that we didn't see the scene between Reid and Garcia! Dumb enough in her re-telling. But, for crying out loud, she comes back to the BAU and is boohooing, totally undisturbed by anyone (with the incongruous possible exception of Luke) concerned to know how Reid is? All so we can see them get cozy and whatever. Garcia should have called Emily from the road, saying Reid had been beaten up and he was in genpop and get him outta there! But, no, it'll have to wait because "we have a case!" Excuse me, if Luke hadn't volunteered to inform Emily, ask about the lawyer, and go see/threaten Shaw, Reid would have been sitting around waiting for the next attack...

And the weird scene with Shaw and Luke, what the hell was that even about? If we weren't sure about Calvin's machinations before, the show went and muddied the waters even more, uh, so we would have a reason to breathe a sigh of relief for Reid's sake? Oh, and they threw in that line about Reid not having to perform sexual favors after what was certainly a brutal attack "last week" so we know he wasn't raped? Again, what is the purpose of this arc if we have no discernible reason for Reid to suffer, if we have no focus by a mini-team (at least 2) on his case, and if his lawyer is negligent in finding evidence and building a case (getting his trial moved up is foolhardy if you haven't got a case built on evidence to help exonerate him!).

[I have to say, perhaps this writer has potential, because this "case" could have been so torture-porny and wasn't. But it was as if a Martian came down from Outer Space and tried to blend in with humans by being a serial killer who kills when awake for good reasons and then falls asleep and kills twice as much for bad reasons! I mean, whuh?!]

Truly, if it weren't for MGG bringing another good performance (despite bad bruise makeup), the ludicrosity (that's a real word, I just invented it) of this episode would have collapsed it entirely. I can see them embellishing this slightly, adding music and costumes, and having CM: The Musical Episode.   

[Mom x 3]

11 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

You know who should be his lawyer?

Aaron Hotchner. 

Oof!  Right in the feels.

7 hours ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

-  Why do I have a feeling they are going to turn Luis' death into an angst fest where Reid blames Shaw & Alvez for protecting him (Reid)?  I can already feel the heavy sigh full of 'so predictable' coming on.

This will piss me off if it happens.  It's ridiculous when characters blame their friends for trying to help them.  I hated it in the earlier seasons also when Reid was such a dick to Emily because he was addicted.  It made no sense and it made me dislike Reid intensely in that arc.  

I'm in the camp that likes Alvez.  I think they are writing him as an all around 'good guy' and the actor totally sells it.  I can see why he is getting more focus, because Rossi is becoming dull even when he has lines and JJ has been too inconsistent for me to care about anything she is doing.  

[Danielg342]

53 minutes ago, normasm said:

CM: The Musical

This might actually be an improvement. At least then the show won't be hiding the fact it's all about theatrics now.

[ReidGirl]

12 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

You know who should be his lawyer?

Aaron Hotchner. 

YES YES YES so much :-)

Completely agree with this. With Morgan gone this season I had high hopes we would see more Hotch and Reid scenes. But ALAS that never happened. 

As I said in some other thread they should have restricted Reid's prison arc to last 4 episodes or so. He should have been with the team solving cases especially as both Morgan and Hotch were out of season 12. Reid should have been mentoring the new team members, helping them with all his experience. Instead they have him in prison with 5 minutes of screen time and I can keep rambling on but I will stop.

[ForeverAlone]

This episode felt like a cross between some boring prison drama and a cheesy bad horror film. I mean, everything about the home invasion murders was just stupid in its presentation. It felt like that bad horror movie that one couple was watching before they got murdered. While the idea of sleep murder is fascinating, I don't think the idea was developed intelligently enough here, and it was compounded by bad writing and cheesy bad acting from the guest stars. Then of course that bad homage to The Shining in the final murder. I wanted to laugh more than anything else. 

As for the interminable Reid arc, the fact that Reid is basically existing in his own show weakens the arc for me. I think the show wants us to care about Luis and what happens to him, but I...don't. I don't give a rat's ass about him or his predicament, because it has nothing to do with the larger show. It is just seems like some excuse to watch Reid get his ass beat in prison. I keep waiting for the reason Reid was moved into Gen Pop against orders. I mean, the prison should have record that Reid was slated for protective custody and that one guard put him into Gen Pop expressly against that order. If it was about Mr. Scratch having a hold over the prison chief enough to compromise Reid's safety, you would think he wouldn't have been on the protective custody list in the first place. But from our perspective, this thing happened on the desire of one prison guard, and this story is moving too slowly for me at this moment.  This arc might be more interesting if the team was actually connected to Reid and we saw more of the fight into why he wasn't put into protective custody like he was supposed to and more of the investigation into his case. But that part of the story has been happening nearly entirely off screen and we don't know what the hell is going on with that. I'll be charitable and assume it will all come out in the end, but whether or not it will be satisfying remains to be seen. 

[Drogo]

Hardly credible that a former FBI agent like Shaw would have the prison moxie to get drug henchmen off of Reid's back unless he were in some way involved with (or in charge of) their racket.  Wouldn't surprise me at all if the Captain who took him out of P.C. is also under Shaw's control.

I enjoyed Alvez, his scene with Shaw, and his scenes with Garcia.  And I really enjoyed her "GIMMIE DIS" face when he brought back the desk cat.

[threebluestars]

I am really bored with the Reid storyline. There, I said it.

I love Reid. Favourite character. But I hate this storyline. I hate that Reid, a criminal profiler who once held off a serial killer by profiling him, seems to have forgotten he could use his skills to his advantage in prison. I was hoping him pretending to snitch to help Luis meant we were going to see Reid pull something on the baddies - he seemed to hint he knew how to deal with psychopaths ... and then just lets them beat on him and gets all depressed?

I think they've missed the mark with this. I also hate that there doesn't seem to be any real effort to clear Reid, and I can't seem to see how they will. Some deus ex machina comes flying out to save the day is all I'm seeing, which will be unsatisfying and dumb. I think the whole Mr. Scratch story was screwed the minute Hotch left, and they should have scrapped it and started fresh.

[Droogie]

Worked night shift last night and just got to finish watching.  Overall ludicrosity aside (thanks Norm -- I'm diggin it) because what a crap sandwich they fed us for this one... but if the writing for upcoming episodes and a potential renewal is worth anything (casting my No Confidence vote now), Reid can't ever be the same.  I'm ignoring all the ways he is behaving un-Spencer-like and all the missteps the team, his lawyer, the writers, etc., are taking and just going with what I see.

And what I see is that all that wide-eyed wonder that Reid has brought to all the proceedings up until now is going to be gone.  Or at least greatly subdued for the foreseeable future.  You just don't bounce back from this.

I'm upset. My new bed was just delivered and Imma go get in it.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Droogie

[Hotchgirl18]

1 hour ago, ReidGirl said:

YES YES YES so much :-)

Completely agree with this. With Morgan gone this season I had high hopes we would see more Hotch and Reid scenes. But ALAS that never happened. 

As I said in some other thread they should have restricted Reid's prison arc to last 4 episodes or so. He should have been with the team solving cases especially as both Morgan and Hotch were out of season 12. Reid should have been mentoring the new team members, helping them with all his experience. Instead they have him in prison with 5 minutes of screen time and I can keep rambling on but I will stop.

No, that never happened because they FIRED him. They hate him and want us to forget he existed. 

This arc is going to hell. 

17 minutes ago, arieswriting said:

I am really bored with the Reid storyline. There, I said it.

I love Reid. Favourite character. But I hate this storyline. I hate that Reid, a criminal profiler who once held off a serial killer by profiling him, seems to have forgotten he could use his skills to his advantage in prison. I was hoping him pretending to snitch to help Luis meant we were going to see Reid pull something on the baddies - he seemed to hint he knew how to deal with psychopaths ... and then just lets them beat on him and gets all depressed?

I think they've missed the mark with this. I also hate that there doesn't seem to be any real effort to clear Reid, and I can't seem to see how they will. Some deus ex machina comes flying out to save the day is all I'm seeing, which will be unsatisfying and dumb. I think the whole Mr. Scratch story was screwed the minute Hotch left, and they should have scrapped it and started fresh.

They're common theives.  They had the Scratch story planned for Hotch, then they fired him and starting giving it to other characters. They stole it from Aaron Hotchner. Plain and simple. 

1 hour ago, Danielg342 said:

This might actually be an improvement. At least then the show won't be hiding the fact it's all about theatrics now.

I'll compose the songs for the musical. Hmmm. My first song will be a tribute to the great Unit Chief, Aaron Hotchner. 

[JMO]

I actually think that one of the things MGG is doing really well in this arc is keeping the 'old Reid' present in the character.  It would have been easy to fall into a different persona, given the environment and the change in the character's appearance.  But, especially when he's talking to someone non-threatening like Luis, he sounds to me like the same Reid I know and love.  He's being traumatized, but he's seen much of it before, including having seen someone killed right in front of him (Third Life and, obviously, Zugzwang), or take their own life despite his attempts to save them.  He's up to a beating, or so he thinks, because he's had them before, too.  He's seen all of this before, and survived it.  Especially because his beating took place because he chose to sacrifice himself, I think he can come out of this as intact as he's come out of anything else---which is to say, that he may be emotionally battered, but not irrevocably so.  

What will hurt him a lot more is to find out that his friends aren't trying to save him.  

Edited March 23, 2017 by JMO

[Hotchgirl18]

3 minutes ago, JMO said:

I actually think that one of the things MGG is doing really well in this arc is keeping the 'old Reid' present in the character.  It would have been easy to fall into a different persona, given the environment and the change in the character's appearance.  But, especially when he's talking to someone non-threatening like Luis, he sounds to me like the same Reid I know and love.  He's being traumatized, but he's seen much of it before, including having seen someone killed right in front of him (Third Life and, obviously, Zugzwang), or take their own life despite his attempts to save them.  He's up to a beating, or so he thinks, because he's had them before, too.  He's seen all of this before, and survived it.  Especially because his beating took place because he chose to sacrifice himself, I think he can come out of this as intact as he's come out of anything else---which is to say, that he may be emotionally battered, but not irrevocably so.  

What will hurt him a lot more is to find out that his friends aren't trying to save him.  

They refused to save Hotch from witness protection. And now, they refuse to save Reid. Looks like MESSer is injecting her opinions  in the show once again. 

[Unkempt]

I don't think this is about anyone injecting opinions into the show as it is about things beyond Erica's control.  Thomas isn't allowed back on the show, and I know in the past Gubler has apparently asked for more time off, hence the reduced screen time.

For the prison arc - they're just trying to stretch it out.  Combine that with the fact that a serial is something new they're experimenting with.  I think they're kind of dropping the ball.  I'd be more ok with a case of the week if they had one or two team members staying behind to work on Reid's case.  As of now, I don't see them doing anything to help, and Rossi's baseball speech last week was just a big, fat WTF that made me wonder whether there was possibly a carbon monoxide leak at the BAU.  As for this week, I just wasn't at all into the case.  A sleep walking anything storyline is almost always silly, IMO.  The positive - I did appreciate Alvez stepping up to do SOMETHING for Reid.  I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I actually really like Alvez.  He's not Morgan, but I don't want him to be.  There's only one Morgan.

I can appreciate a 12-year-old show with the same ole formula week after week trying to shake things up a bit by experimenting with something new, like a serialized arc, but I don't think this is something they should try again.  It's not working out, and they clearly aren't sure how to make it work.  I don't mind the prison drama, but it's pissing me off that the team seems to be so ambivalent about Reid's situation.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Unkempt

[ReidFan]

5 minutes ago, Unkempt said:

Rossi's baseball speech last week was just a big, fat WTF that maybe wonder whether there was possibly a carbon monoxide leak at the BAU.

I laughed.

[Hotchgirl18]

5 minutes ago, Unkempt said:

I don't think this is about anyone injecting opinions into the show as it is about things beyond Erica's control.  Thomas isn't allowed back on the show, and I know in the past Gubler has apparently asked for more time off, hence the reduced screen time.

For the prison arc - they're just trying to stretch it out.  Combine that with the fact that a serial is something new they're experimenting with.  I think they're kind of dropping the ball.  I'd be more ok with a case of the week if they had one or two team members staying behind to work on Reid's case.  As of now, I don't see them doing anything to help, and Rossi's baseball speech last week was just a big, fat WTF that maybe wonder whether there was possibly a carbon monoxide leak at the BAU.  As for this week, I just wasn't at all into the case.  A sleep walking anything storyline is almost always silly, IMO.  The positive - I did appreciate Alvez stepping up to do SOMETHING for Reid.  I know this is an unpopular opinion, but I actually really like Alvez.  He's not Morgan, but I don't want him to be.  There's only one Morgan.

I can appreciate a 12-year-old show with the same ole formula week after week trying to shake things up a bit by experimenting with something new, like a serialized arc, but I don't think this is something they should try again.  It's not working out, and they clearly aren't sure how to make it work.  I don't mind the prison drama, but it's pissing me off that the team seems to be so ambivalent about Reid's situation.

Once again, I relate it back to Hotch. What did they do when they found out that Scratch forced them into Witness Protection? Cheer and toast because Emily is the new "unit chief." But it was perfectly fine to drop everything to help TARA when Scratch targeted her. And what are they doing about Reid's situation? Nothing. 

The fact is Erica and her cronies hate Hotch and Reid --and she wants to make sure this new "team" hate them to. 

She got her "vision."

This is not the team I know.

3 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

I laughed.

And one wonders what baseball has ANYTHING to do with Criminal Minds. 

[Unkempt]

But again, it's not really about anyone hating anyone.  They're not doing anything about Hotch because the actor who played Hotch isn't allowed to come back to the set, so what CAN they do?  It's sucks big time, but that's just how it is.  And with Reid, they're not doing anything (as frustrating as it is) because they're trying to stretch this out.

My only issue is that they can stretch this out while at least appearing like they're doing SOMETHING week after week.  Maybe have their case of the week, but maybe keep JJ (or whoever) at the BAU to devote time and attention to Reid's case.  As it is right now, all I see is the team shrugging their shoulders and looking clueless.  I don't get the sense that they hate Reid - if they did, Alvez wouldn't have gone to the prison to threaten Shaw into protecting Reid this week, and Garcia and JJ wouldn't have visited at all.

[Unkempt]

12 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

At least with Harris and Owen (from "Elephant's Memory") the episode was clear Reid saw something of him in them. I fail to see what he saw in Luis.

I think Reid maybe identifies with him a little.  He's young, skinny, he's not at all a "tough guy," and he says he's innocent (but then again, everyone's innocent at Shawshank, amirite?).

[TheGreenWave]

14 hours ago, JMO said:

For me, the Luke/Shaw thing was just more bizarre in a long string of bizarre things about the whole Reid arc.  I couldn't get a handle on why either of them were acting as they were.

This really came out of left field for me - so Luke threatened Shaw with revealing that he shot the informant through the stomach b/c she was pregnant with Shaw's baby??  WHAT?!??!  And, like what was Luke going to do with that info?  Tell a DA?  Tell Shaw's wife?  That was so weird.

[Hotchgirl18]

6 minutes ago, Unkempt said:

But again, it's not really about anyone hating anyone.  They're not doing anything about Hotch because the actor who played Hotch isn't allowed to come back to the set, so what CAN they do?  It's sucks big time, but that's just how it is.  And with Reid, they're not doing anything (as frustrating as it is) because they're trying to stretch this out.

My only issue is that they can stretch this out while at least appearing like they're doing SOMETHING week after week.  Maybe have their case of the week, but maybe keep JJ (or whoever) at the BAU to devote time and attention to Reid's case.  As it is right now, all I see is the team shrugging their shoulders and looking clueless.  I don't get the sense that they hate Reid - if they did, Alvez wouldn't have gone to the prison to threaten Shaw into protecting Reid this week, and Garcia and JJ wouldn't have visited at all.

The team might not, but our producers seem to have it out for anyone who's not an Alvez or a Prentiss. And as for this arc, they should take a page from Kenny Rogers' book: You've got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away and know when to run. 

And as for Hotch: I can't believe I'm suggesting this. It would be sacrilegious, but THEY COULD'VE RECAST HIM!

[Drogo]

6 minutes ago, TheGreenWave said:

This really came out of left field for me - so Luke threatened Shaw with revealing that he shot the informant through the stomach b/c she was pregnant with Shaw's baby??  WHAT?!??!  And, like what was Luke going to do with that info?  Tell a DA?  Tell Shaw's wife?  That was so weird.

He threatened to tell Shaw's wife and son, most likely ruining whatever relationship he has with them. 

[JMO]

14 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

The team might not, but our producers seem to have it out for anyone who's not an Alvez or a Prentiss. And as for this arc, they should take a page from Kenny Rogers' book: You've got to know when to hold 'em. Know when to fold 'em. Know when to walk away and know when to run. 

And as for Hotch: I can't believe I'm suggesting this. It would be sacrilegious, but THEY COULD'VE RECAST HIM!

They can't very well change things as the arc is airing, because the rest of the episodes have already been filmed.  What they could have used was a focus group, as they were putting the idea together.

Right now, it seems to be playing out as an exercise where they all got excited about whatever the payoff will be at the end (and I am sincerely hoping there is a payoff), and that caused them to forget about what fans' perceptions would be of this long, drawn-out road that gets us there.  Even if they think they've got a 'gotcha!' in the bag, where we'll find out that the team has been at work all along, or they have some other surprise up their sleeves (like Morgan), I don't think it will be enough to undo the damage being done with these interim episodes.  

HG, I'm with Unkempt.  There's no hatred involved (coming from the show, at least).  Just the usual tone-deafness, in an environment thrust upon them by circumstance.  There is always opportunity in crisis, and sometimes greatness ensues.  And sometimes it doesn't. 

And, no, TG is the only Hotch I want to see on my screen.  I don't think the role should have been recast.  But they could have easily milked his having to go into witness protection for a few episodes, with a bookend and some lines here and there.  They're just not good at integrating storylines.  Never have been.

[R3volver]

51 minutes ago, JMO said:

I actually think that one of the things MGG is doing really well in this arc is keeping the 'old Reid' present in the character.  It would have been easy to fall into a different persona, given the environment and the change in the character's appearance.  But, especially when he's talking to someone non-threatening like Luis, he sounds to me like the same Reid I know and love.  He's being traumatized, but he's seen much of it before, including having seen someone killed right in front of him (Third Life and, obviously, Zugzwang), or take their own life despite his attempts to save them.  He's up to a beating, or so he thinks, because he's had them before, too.  He's seen all of this before, and survived it.  Especially because his beating took place because he chose to sacrifice himself, I think he can come out of this as intact as he's come out of anything else---which is to say, that he may be emotionally battered, but not irrevocably so.  

What will hurt him a lot more is to find out that his friends aren't trying to save him.  

 

I still strongly believe Reid has been in character throughout this arc, save for when he was drugged.  His emotions and behaviors will change to fit the situation(and like you said there's also trauma), but his core character is consistent. 

The ones who aren't consistent are his friends.  Why is Rossi not phased in the slightest? Why is JJ falling apart one moment and then suddenly fine the next(she was consistent up until this episode)? Why isn't Emily constantly checking in with Fiona to ensure she's doing everything possible to help him?

[Hotchgirl18]

7 minutes ago, JMO said:

They can't very well change things as the arc is airing, because the rest of the episodes have already been filmed.  What they could have used was a focus group, as they were putting the idea together.

Right now, it seems to be playing out as an exercise where they all got excited about whatever the payoff will be at the end (and I am sincerely hoping there is a payoff), and that caused them to forget about what fans' perceptions would be of this long, drawn-out road that gets us there.  Even if they think they've got a 'gotcha!' in the bag, where we'll find out that the team has been at work all along, or they have some other surprise up their sleeves (like Morgan), I don't think it will be enough to undo the damage being done with these interim episodes.  

HG, I'm with Unkempt.  There's no hatred involved (coming from the show, at least).  Just the usual tone-deafness, in an environment thrust upon them by circumstance.  There is always opportunity in crisis, and sometimes greatness ensues.  And sometimes it doesn't. 

And, no, TG is the only Hotch I want to see on my screen.  I don't think the role should have been recast.  But they could have easily milked his having to go into witness protection for a few episodes, with a bookend and some lines here and there.  They're just not good at integrating storylines.  Never have been.

TG is the only Hotch I would want to see. But, I guess, desperate times call for desperate measures. They could've expanded on it a little more. But they want us to forget Hotch ever existed. Well, they can try, but they won't take him away from me. 

There is no opportunity in this crisis. TG said it himself. They are determined to erase him. 

9 minutes ago, R3volver said:

I still strongly believe Reid has been in character throughout this arc, save for when he was drugged.  His emotions and behaviors will change to fit the situation(and like you said there's also trauma), but his core character is consistent. 

The ones who aren't consistent are his friends.  Why is Rossi not phased in the slightest? Why is JJ falling apart one moment and then suddenly fine the next(she was consistent up until this episode)? Why isn't Emily constantly checking in with Fiona to ensure she's doing everything possible to help him?

Because Emily is as much of a Unit Chief as I am a sports announcer for the World Series. 

[TigerLynx]

One advantage to this SL is by only watching the Reid scenes (at this point it's all I am interested in), I now have more free time for other things.

I was amused by the WTF look Shaw shot at Reid when Reid told him he was going to give his cell to Luis so Luis would have some protection.

[R3volver]

2 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

Because Emily is as much of a Unit Chief as I am a sports announcer for the World Series. 

 

This is what really gets me.  If they had written Emily the way she was before she left, she would've been a great leader. 

[Hotchgirl18]

1 minute ago, R3volver said:

This is what really gets me.  If they had written Emily the way she was before she left, she would've been a great leader. 

I hate her. She should've stayed at Interpol. She's a  Benedict Arnold. 

[Unkempt]

Well, TG didn't say they were "determined" to erase him, he said it felt like they were trying to erase him...which is understandable, but there is a difference. 

When this prison arc is over, and Scratch is (hopefully) out of the picture, I'd like to see some mention of Hotch....like maybe he transferred to a less demanding unit so he can spend more time with his son.  They did that much for Seaver, so I'd love some sort of explanation for what happens to Hotch once he doesn't need to be in witness protection anymore.

And HG - I don't think anyone's trying to take Hotch away from his fans as much as they're trying to just move forward in spite of a sucky situation.  "The show must go on," as the old saying goes.

[Hotchgirl18]

They should have enough decency to mention their unit chief for eleven years. 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

2 hours ago, R3volver said:

I still strongly believe Reid has been in character throughout this arc, save for when he was drugged.  His emotions and behaviors will change to fit the situation(and like you said there's also trauma), but his core character is consistent. 

The ones who aren't consistent are his friends.  Why is Rossi not phased in the slightest? Why is JJ falling apart one moment and then suddenly fine the next(she was consistent up until this episode)? Why isn't Emily constantly checking in with Fiona to ensure she's doing everything possible to help him?

This pretty much succinctly encompasses all my frustrations with this serialized arc, especially that one.  That and the incompetent uselessness of Fiona the DA.

I've been given the impression that - at least in the past - Garcia/JJ/Prentiss were the "Three Amigos" of female friendship, but Luke finds out about Reid's prison predicament, via Garcia, before anyone else (which only happened because she didn't shut her door first)?  I don't care how new or difficult to write this type of overall arc is, that just can't happen.  Prentiss and then JJ should have been the very first persons on her 'must know' list in that situation, even before she got back to the BAU, as mentioned above.

Not only all that, but just judging by her scenes in the episode, JJ had no idea of what was going on with Reid since her visit.  Guess that tight friendship between the three longest standing members of the team is a distant thing of the past?

[JMO]

19 minutes ago, iRarelyWatchTV36 said:

This pretty much succinctly encompasses all my frustrations with this serialized arc, especially that one.  That and the incompetent uselessness of Fiona the DA.

I've been given the impression that - at least in the past - Garcia/JJ/Prentiss were the "Three Amigos" of female friendship, but Luke finds out about Reid's prison predicament, via Garcia, before anyone else (which only happened because she didn't shut her door first)?  I don't care how new or difficult to write this type of overall arc is, that just can't happen.  Prentiss and then JJ should have been the very first persons on her 'must know' list in that situation, even before she got back to the BAU, as mentioned above.

Not only all that, but just judging by her scenes in the episode, JJ had no idea of what was going on with Reid since her visit.  Guess that tight friendship between the three longest standing members of the team is a distant thing of the past?

That's the stuff that is most annoying.  They played down the JJ/Reid friendship for years, resurrected it in little bits over the past couple of seasons, and then highlighted it in the last few episodes.  It certainly seemed like they were using it as an emotional anchor for the arc.  And then, last night, poof!, it was gone. So now, i don't want to invest emotionally in pretty much anything to do with the rest of the arc, because I don't trust that whatever I latch on to won't disappear just as suddenly, and mysteriously, as this, and all of the rest of the friendships have.  

It's not like the case was so compelling that they didn't have time. 

[Hotchgirl18]

I've made a decision: No matter how painful this season has been, next week, I'm going to force myself to watch next week's episode. I've got to see this with my own eyes.

[ReidFan]

it's 12.19 'Unforgettable' that you need to make sure you don't miss, Hotchgirl :)

[Danielg342]

Much like how last year the Morgan arc just seemed to be staged to show how physically strong Morgan is, I feel like this prison arc is meant to be an excuse for the writers to give Reid extended manpain. Nothing seems to happen to Reid except to put him in peril, and to add to his misery.

Which isn't necessarily bad...except that the show thinks Reid's physical presence is enough for us to have sympathy for what's going on with him. On top of being outright poor storytelling, it feels very exploitative, and that is just wrong on so many other levels.

[normasm]

41 minutes ago, JMO said:

That's the stuff that is most annoying.  They played down the JJ/Reid friendship for years, resurrected it in little bits over the past couple of seasons, and then highlighted it in the last few episodes.  It certainly seemed like they were using it as an emotional anchor for the arc.  And then, last night, poof!, it was gone. So now, i don't want to invest emotionally in pretty much anything to do with the rest of the arc, because I don't trust that whatever I latch on to won't disappear just as suddenly, and mysteriously, as this, and all of the rest of the friendships have.  

It's not like the case was so compelling that they didn't have time. 

Yes, it seems like, not only did they bring 27 newbies in who have no investment in the veteran team, now most of the veteran team seems to have no connections or ties or loyalties with each other either! Reid, who's that?

[Hotchgirl18]

10 minutes ago, normasm said:

Yes, it seems like, not only did they bring 27 newbies in who have no investment in the veteran team, now most of the veteran team seems to have no connections or ties or loyalties with each other either! Reid, who's that?

I do not like the new characters. Why aren't they dropping everything to save Reid and find Mr. FreaKing Scratch? 

[JMO]

It's hard to get to know the new characters when you are not watching them.  Tara has grown on me, but I'm still not crazy about her.  I actually do like Luke and Stephen.  But there are just too many of them, and it is diluting the interactions on screen.

[normasm]

I'm just OK with the newbies, and, if they had been introduced one-to-a-season, because someone had rotated off the show, like Morgan, I'd probably eventually accept them all, like I have all the replacements except Seaver. Can't hack that one, ever (it's no reflection on the actress, BTW).

[Hotchgirl18]

21 minutes ago, JMO said:

It's hard to get to know the new characters when you are not watching them.  Tara has grown on me, but I'm still not crazy about her.  I actually do like Luke and Stephen.  But there are just too many of them, and it is diluting the interactions on screen.

I like Tara. 

[Drogo]

41 minutes ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

I do not like the new characters. Why aren't they dropping everything to save Reid and find Mr. FreaKing Scratch? 

They still have to hunt down serial killers. 

[secnarf]

15 hours ago, Haleysgalaxy said:

I also didn't really like the hetero-flexible joke, and I can't really pinpoint exactly why. Something about it just seemed a bit distasteful to me. I also think "situational homosexuality" would have been a better term, but I'm probably being too picky. Also, while homosexual activities do often occur in prison, I don't think it's extremely widespread or anything. Even though my research on that topic solely consists of reading reddit AMA's of former inmates, so I really have no idea what I'm talking about. 

I didn't take the heteroflexible comment as a joke. I think homosexual activities in prison are actually quite common, both consensual and as a way of exerting power (rape). I got the sense that Calvin Shaw was being completely serious when he brought this up.

Then again, I can't claim to have any firsthand experience with the prison environment either!

5 hours ago, Hotchgirl18 said:

And as for Hotch: I can't believe I'm suggesting this. It would be sacrilegious, but THEY COULD'VE RECAST HIM!

I disagree with this in the strongest possible way. Frankly, I would rather them recast (or CGI) Carrie Fisher in Star Wars Episode IX than recast Hotch.

No real comments about the episode. It was meh. I did think the unsub did 'blank stare' well - the blank look on his face genuinely creeped me out. I had many issues with the way the profile was determined. I did like that Tara was able to use some of her pre-BAU experience to offer some insight on this case, though. Helps to differentiate the characters.

[Kara101]

17 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I didn't take the heteroflexible comment as a joke. I think homosexual activities in prison are actually quite common, both consensual and as a way of exerting power (rape). I got the sense that Calvin Shaw was being completely serious when he brought this up.

Then again, I can't claim to have any firsthand experience with the prison environment either!

 

Oooh, I didn't think Shaw was joking to Reid either! I just took it that it was meant to be comical to the audience due to Reid's reaction and everything. Bad choice of words on my part.

Edited March 23, 2017 by Haleysgalaxy

[Lostinthehouse]

18 hours ago, R3volver said:

When Reid said "I could do their taxes or something ", I was thinking maybe he got hit in the head harder than we thought. The guys are in prison, I kind of doubt they have tax worries, especially since they were probably gang bangers in their life before prison.

Remember "The Shawshank Redemption" - Tim Robbins did all the prisoner's taxes.  Do prisoners have to pay taxes on the $0.25 per day they earn for doing the laundry?

[Droogie]

In Shawshank, DuFresne did the guards' taxes, not the prisoners'.

[ReidFan]

note to self: watch Shawshank Redemption.

that keeps coming up during the course of discussion of this arc.

[Hotchgirl18]

7 minutes ago, Droogie said:

In Shawshank, DuFresne did the guards' taxes, not the prisoners'.

Then I guess Reid can do the guard's taxex!