Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Danny Franks]

They should have just done this:
 

 
At least it might have actually been funny.

[Password]

Hahahaha can you imagine faux Oliver babbling techno things in his old Ollie voice? Oh my gosh make it happen!

[quarks]

Well, here's what I see as the problems with Ray and Felicity:

 

1. On a meta level, one of the most criticized parts of season one was the Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle. In season two, ratings dropped significantly after Oliver/Sara started dating (though before I get jumped on, no, I don't think the Oliver/Sara relationship was the reason, or at least not the only reason, for that.)  This does not bode well for reactions to Felicity and Ray, and forcing this on the guy the show wants to move into a spinoff - color me puzzled.

 

2. Within the show, I think there's another issue. Previously, when there's been love triangles, the rivals have been clearly different. For instance, Tommy wasn't running around shooting arrows at people, and Oliver was. Helena immediately bonded with Oliver and understood his whole crucible thing, and Laurel didn't. McKenna had a fun, happy past with Oliver, and Laurel didn't. Isabel was just used to create an Oliver/Felicity moment, and Felicity...never mind this one. Wait, I got it: Isabel was evil and Felicity isn't (although since the writers said they didn't know whether or not Isabel would end up evil when they wrote the Oliver/Isabel hookup, let's skip this since it's the outlier.)  Barry is upbeat and cheerful and Oliver is a brooding mess of ANGST WAIT THAT'S NOT ENOUGH ANGST I NEED MORE ANGST DOES ANYONE HAVE MORE ANGST?  Sara was a trained fighter who could easily defend herself and Felicity wasn't.  Roy, Thea and the DJ aren't really getting played as a love triangle, but the Dj is annoying and evil and Roy isn't.  Differences, easy to spot.

 

Ray, though, is Oliver-lite. Billionaire, check, works in the same company, check, does the salmon ladder, check, trying to be a vigilante, check, gets tech assistance from Felicity, check, uses the word "care" to Felicity, check, has a dead former girlfriend, check (although Oliver beats him there), cares about his city, check.  The differences (Ray is actually good at running a business, Oliver is actually good at being a vigilante) either aren't that profound, or aren't in Ray's favor: Oliver buys an expensive piece of jewelry (back in season one, "Dodger,") and uses it to capture a bad guy; Ray rents an expensive piece of jewelry and uses it to persuade Felicity to go on a business dinner with him so he can get dwarf energy stuff. Oliver calls Felicity to find out where she is; Ray pings her phone. Even the tech/non tech angle doesn't really work all that well here since many of Oliver's arrows use tech or go boom.

 

And even the angst/non angst contrast isn't great here, since Oliver started out the season in non angst form. He immediately lost this, but that twenty minutes (and a couple of bits in "Flash versus Arrow") show that angst doesn't have to be a chronic condition.

 

3. I like the way Oliver/Felicity have been written this season.  If Ray/Felicity had focused more on helicopters and less on "yes, I know last week I was all about avenging my fiancee who just died back in May, and you told me that you'd just lost someone who was more than a friend," I'd probably like them too, but that wasn't what was written.

[dtissagirl]

I can't help but wonder what if they had made Palmer more like Barry. I think that would have made more sense to me -- if they established that Felicity is usually attracted to STEM nerdy guys [barry, Cooper], and Oliver being the exception with whom they could play up the opposites attract trope.

Of course I'd also need him to be played by someone else, because Routh gives me the hibbie jibbies even without the stalking parts of the story.

[statsgirl]

I wonder if they just got lazy wrt Ray's non Atom persona.  Barry was deliberately made the opposite of Oliver (happy, easy-going, science geek, learned to deal with his tragic past) but they've done that so Ray has to be different.  I can just see the three EPs sitting there, going "now that we've got permission to use Ray Palmer, what are we going to do?  We have to have him involved with  Felicity though.  That worked  for Barry.  Hey, let's make him like Oliver only not so much and with a suit."

 

I can't help but wonder what if they had made Palmer more like Barry. I think that would have made more sense to me -- if they established that Felicity is usually attracted to STEM nerdy guys [barry, Cooper], and Oliver being the exception with whom they could play up the opposites attract trope.

 

I think it was too soon after Barry to go for the same type and they wanted a physicality without superpowers.  But they should have done something other than Oliver-lite.

 

AK always talks about Felicity having a choice this season as if it's a gift to those of us who like Felicity.  News for you Andy -- not when she's written OOC like this or turns into a bitch around Oliver.

 

I actually wish he had been Laurel's love interest instead and just Felicity's quirky but understanding boss.  They still could have done the banter but platonically and it would have been interesting to see his lack of boundaries and enthusiasm interact with Laurel's abrasive character.  It might have done her some good, to have a relationship in her life.

 

It's a super weird case of the writing SWMale-ing Oliver. I mean. I'm assuming Crazy Eyes doesn't know he's emulating Oliver in as many superficial characteristics as possible, but maybe his long game is stalking Oliver via Felicity, what do I know?

That might actually have been more interesting than Raylicity.

[calliope1975]

That might actually have been more interesting than Raylicity.

 

That would have been interesting. I would have loved it if Ray knew Oliver was the Arrow and wanted to be like him. I'd even accept his cliche, tragic back story. Use Felicity to get closer to Oliver, take his company, etc. It wouldn't even have to be for creepy motives, just a big case of hero worship. Alas, that is not what happened. 

 

I also don't think I would have minded if Felicity had moved on with Barry. At first, I would have thought that it would be hard to do because they're on different shows, but the amount of times they've shipped Felicity over to The Flash negates that. For me, I felt that Barry/GG managed to create a mostly full character in 2 episodes. I was initially put off of Ray/BR because of the intense creepiness but I'm still not getting much of who he is though I realize I could be discounting him because of my first impression. 

[Orion]

For me all the problems with relationships on this show begin with how the show is structured. The writers can not tell multiple origins stories with an ensemble cast while the show is structured to be a story about a sole protagonist.

 

Almost every problem we are dealing with from Ray, Laurel, Sara, Slade, Thea, and Malcom all come down to that.

 

If this was an ensemble show:

 

Laurel would have been given flashbacks to her loving Oliver, dealing with the sinking of the Gambit, throwing herself into law school and missing/angry beyond words at Sara. We could have watched her really devote herself to training. We could have seen her finally moving on and falling in love with Tommy. Had a story where she was lost and turn toward alcohol and drugs and really gone down the rabbit hole with her. Developing a real and true bond with Sara where Sara tells her all about what happened to her. How she got her scars. The sisters could have talked about why Sara went with Oliver on Gambit and that's the point that the real healing of their relationship could have begun.  Finding self worth in helping the Arrow with his mission. Coming into the Arrow cave like the outsider she should be. Working to earn Felicity and Diggle's friendship and respect.  Real training with Ted Grant while she desperately hunts for the person who killed Sara through legal means and faces one road block after another. Watch her be torn apart by the lies she has to tell to everyone including Quentin (because I can't not say it god I hate that story).

 

We could have been introduced to Ray the same way but see him talking to Anna in his mind about how much he misses her in the first episode. It could have cut to a scene where he goes to open their engagement party photo on his computer and finds all of his files replaced by porcupine farts. The dawning horror that the pieces of her he has left, photos, are gone along with all his files on the suit he wants to make all because of Felicity and his determination to track her down any way possible to ask for them back. We could have had a scene where Felicity turns down the job offer and Ray flashes back to that night in the Glades and remembers Anna dying in his arms and then see him pressuring Felicity to work for him by him buying Tech Village. Little scenes with Felicity making him laugh and Ray commenting that he hadn't smiled in a long time.  Put the two of them in scenes where he acts like a socially awkward doof and have her call him on it in a friendly joking way.  See them hanging out a Big Belly burger verbally sparing back and forth about the latest tech advancement, Felicity's latest babble and Ray's latest boundary issue. I imagine if we had those scenes there would be a lot less complaints about Ray.

 

Slade and Malcom have the same problems. Their stories worked when they were involved in a plot that Oliver was included in. As soon as they needed motivations of their own the writers weren't willing to explore it. So we got WTH Slade loved Shado? Since when? and WTH Malcom wants to destroy an entire part of the city because one guy killed his wife?

 

Thea could have been given some agency. Any ... at all, a crumb even.

 

Sara was the most successful because she came in with an origin story already in place.  Then her character got whiplash because she would rather die than kill again and then decided, "Screw it.  Kill Roy. And LOA summer camp yay!"

 

It all comes back to the writers wanting all these superheroes but also not wanting to let go of Oliver only writing. The reason why Barry worked on Arrow imo is that his origin story wasn't addressed on Oliver's show. We are given the now standard a female died in my life scene and then some adorkable interaction with Felicity that all helped to move Oliver's plot. Then Barry gets struck by lightening and leaves. Ray is given the same a woman I love scene but now he's has to stick around and try to become his own hero but one that furthers Oliver's storyline. Laurel gets more but basically the same thing. Her story will only go as far as to support a change in Oliver. Thea's only interest in the plot is when Oliver is lying to her or Malcom is using her.

 

It's never going to work. All the supporting characters are fighting it out for agency away from Oliver that they need but that the writers will never let them have.  Sara is the example that if the writers are determined to have Justice League show named Arrow they need to follow. Fully formed superheroes show up. We get some filler info on them and they work along side Oliver and grow his story that way and then they move on.  

 

They can't have the relationships on this show both ways; either the narrative is Oliver's and everyone else supporting players or it's an ensemble and everyone gets their own story to occupy. As it is it's tearing the story apart and turning all the supporting characters into walking talking plot devices as they try to use them and the audiences affection for them to say. "oh no this makes sense."

Edited January 31, 2015 by Orion

[kismet]

I wonder if they just got lazy wrt Ray's non Atom persona.  Barry was deliberately made the opposite of Oliver (happy, easy-going, science geek, learned to deal with his tragic past) but they've done that so Ray has to be different.  I can just see the three EPs sitting there, going "now that we've got permission to use Ray Palmer, what are we going to do?  We have to have him involved with  Felicity though.  That worked  for Barry.  Hey, let's make him like Oliver only not so much and with a suit."

 

I think it was too soon after Barry to go for the same type and they wanted a physicality without superpowers.  But they should have done something other than Oliver-lite.

 

AK always talks about Felicity having a choice this season as if it's a gift to those of us who like Felicity.  News for you Andy -- not when she's written OOC like this or turns into a bitch around Oliver.

 

I actually wish he had been Laurel's love interest instead and just Felicity's quirky but understanding boss.  They still could have done the banter but platonically and it would have been interesting to see his lack of boundaries and enthusiasm interact with Laurel's abrasive character.  It might have done her some good, to have a relationship in her life.

 

That might actually have been more interesting than Raylicity.

I agree with you, I think it would have be more interesting to see how Ray's personality blended with Laurel's. In some ways it might have mirrored some of the same beats as Oliver/Felicity.

 

Personally, I think a platonic banter relationship would have been better for Ray/Felicity. I understand they wanted to give her options and a life outside of Oliver. But as others have mentioned, this  life has focused less on her and more on Ray. He is Oliver Lite and not in a way that pushes Felicity's character forward. Beyond giving her a better title & from appearances a more "equal" partnership, all he really has done is use her to advance his goals. She actually seemed to have more autonomy over her character and a more independent life when she was working with Oliver. I always felt like she had more choices then and was not trapped into small compartmentalized role that Ray has made for her. I think a lot of that has to do with poor writing. And the likely inevitable outcome, that for whatever reasons (likely not well thought out) they EPs thought romance was the best angle to Ray/Felicity. I think it would have made each character better if Felicity had finally chosen to help him because she believed in the cause. The puppy eyes in the last episode really sorta diminished the power of the choices everyone made last episode. If you had kept it platonic between R/F, then you have more options to grow. Its so cliche to make journeys about who you are, directly revolve around another person... I feel like I knew Felicity better when she was working with Oliver. We never really got to know Ray. He made rather poor first impressions, seemed to get better, and then veered creepy again with his puppy eyes.

 

Barry never really had that problem, he was likeable from the start. As much as he bumbled through some scenes with his geekiness, he always seemed to grasp boundaries and social cues. I really loved his interactions w/ Oliver the most. It was their energy & chemistry I felt more compelling. Very few actors could pull off the ah shucks moment and then in the next breath stand up to OQ & the Arrow. That was the best scene that I think proved what type of person BA was - strong, puts others first, caring, protective & respectful. When he says "you don't have to thank me, but you should thank her instead of being kind of a jerk. Mr. Queen" In 1 sentence he proved so much about what makes you root for him. He could have easily demanded a thank u, but no that was for Felicity. He could have coward away from the discussion, but Felicity needed some back-up. He could have been intimidated by both the Arrow & OQ persona, but her wasn't. He called Oliver out on his BS, shut down the futile argument and did it in a respectful and eloquent mic drop. I don't necessarily agree that Barry was made deliberately to be the opposite of Oliver. In many ways, I sorta saw him as the potential that Oliver could have. They share many of the same attributes/characteristics esp as Oliver regains his humanity. Yes Oliver is dark & Barry is light. But at the core they share similar values & in many ways are the same type of guy, a hero.

 

I have never have a seen Ray Palmer command a scene or situation like that above scene. He always seems like a spoiled brat that just wants to get his way and when it doesn't he uses his money to buy himself what he wants. He is like Oliver pre-island only without the fun. His mentality reminds me of Ollie. His goals/plans are noble, but his intentions selfish with questionable decision making abilities. Perhaps thats not why Im so excited about his character as it stands now. He is the composite of what were negative attributes of other characters. There is not 1 unique aspect to his character that positively displayed. In many ways, I see him as a combination of Tommy/Isobel/Laurel/Slade, but without all the charm & appeal of those characters. I don't see any Barry in him. He's intelligent & nerdy, that doesn't even compare to the other elements Barry brought to the table. The question Im left asking is why did they kill off so many more interesting characters to bring on this hybrid mheh character? Do I want this guy to really be a hero? How many episodes have him being on the show actually made it more enjoyable or interesting ti watch? Its poor writing. They wanted a plot so thats what they wrote. Nothing memorable or remarkable. Perhaps when Oliver comes back and they actually share scenes again, their dynamic may reinvigorate why Ray Palmer is actually on the show. So I am interested in seeing how they play off each other. SA does a great job bringing out the best in his on-screen relationships, so it would be nice to see him force RP to be more 3D and less trope/cliche. 

[Genki]

Another thing with Barry's introduction, for me, was that jealous Oliver was funny and kinda cute in season 2, because a) it was before the Slade darkness, Oliver wasn't admitting anything about his feelings for Felicity and Felicity was oblivious.

 

None of this works in season 3.

 

I would have preferred Felicity on random dates with normals, and her non-Arrow storyline  being more about building up her career again, and maybe even her reputation professionally. Ray and Felicity platonic would have been good in this scenario.

[foreverevolving]

Another thing with Barry's introduction, for me, was that jealous Oliver was funny and kinda cute in season 2, because a) it was before the Slade darkness, Oliver wasn't admitting anything about his feelings for Felicity and Felicity was oblivious.

 

None of this works in season 3.

 

I would have preferred Felicity on random dates with normals, and her non-Arrow storyline  being more about building up her career again, and maybe even her reputation professionally. Ray and Felicity platonic would have been good in this scenario.

Also unlike Ray Barry wasn't introduced as a love interest for Felicity, there were undertones, but it was pretty obvious from the get go that there will be no romance there. Which is where part of the Ray hate is stemmed from, in my opinion.

[tv echo]

I think we all did. I mean, the writers described her identity struggle as "Am I more than Oliver's crush object?" And so far, the answer seems to be, "Yes, because I'm Ray's crush object too!" That's really unsatisfying. I wish they'd focus more on her job, and how that's changing her. It would be awesome to see her growing more ambitious, or getting the sense that her day job was becoming equally important to her and causing conflict with Oliver because she couldn't devote herself 100% to TA. But so far, the only purpose of her job is to serve as a conduit for her personal relationship with Ray, and that's certainly not the "more" I was hoping for.

 

If the EPs had been willing to make Felicity the star of her own storyline and not been so greedy to get another DC superhero (Atom!) on the show, then maybe we could've gotten a story where Felicity, crushed by grief for Oliver's death, buries herself in developing new tech gadgets to protect the remainder of Team Arrow.  Instead of Ray being the inventor along the way to becoming Iron Man-lite, it would be Felicity who was the inventor - maybe even turn her into a superhero who uses a tech suit to fight.  Instead, she's just a prop, a cheerleader, and a crush object.

Edited January 31, 2015 by tv echo

[poetgirl925]

I've been thinking a lot about the relationships. I'm kind of on the fence about about Olicity right now. I've felt... disconnected maybe? The premiere went (mostly) okay, but after that I just wasn't feeling it for some reason. I don't know if it was possibly some transference from other things that have been annoying me? It's one of the reasons I started avoiding the boards and any and all discussions of spoilers, etc. I wanted to just take the show in as a viewer, which is what I did for Nov, Dec, Jan.

I'm too far behind on most of the discussions to catch up, so I'm not sure how most of you are feeling about this. At this point I think I just want Felicity to be valued, to be put first. If that turns out to be with Oliver, okay. If it turns out to be with someone else? I'd be okay with that too, or if she decided to figure herself out on her own, even. Frankly, I liked her with Barry in that Flash crossover episode, even more than the two season 2 episodes. But he has feelings for Iris, and I don't want her to be a placeholder. I probably could have gotten on board with Ray and Felicity if the writing had been better. These writers just don't do romance very well IMO. But semi-stalking and occasional crazy eyes aside, Ray is a good guy, I think. It's now been nearly a year since his fiancée died - they had a time jump plus the time that's passed since then. It must have been nearly a year. I think that's enough time to start moving on, but there is the concern of rebounding. There's also the fact that Felicity clearly has feelings for Oliver. But some of their scenes together are cute, and they provide lighter moments. And right now this show desperately needs lighter moments. I am so, so tired of the constant angst and Oliver's manpaining, much of which he brings on himself. I get that this is a character journey, but I don't think it needs to be constantly depressing.

The main reason I'm not taking Ray and Felicity very seriously is that it's been rushed and feels too much like writing for plot. Also, they just had their hero make declarations - I'd be shocked if they switched gears after all that. So, I figure this is the Olicity roadblock, and that's the main reason I'm annoyed by it. I hate love triangles - this show squanders too much story real estate on silliness IMO. For example, if they hadn't wasted so much time making Sara and Laurel's relationship about Oliver last season, they might have concentrated on them as sisters. And if they'd done that, I might sympathize more with Laurel this season.

Right now, I'm almost rooting for Felicity to move on, and that's sad to me. I just don't like the story as it's being presented. If I thought they'd let her be happy, and they started writing for character over plot, I could probably still get on board with Ray and Felicity. (Maybe.) I'm still actively avoiding spoilers because with my annoyance level lately, I'm afraid I might quit the show like I did last season. I caught up before SDCC so I could follow that news. Basically though, I just want good writing and honest characterization and an end to pointless angst and torturing of characters.

Edited January 31, 2015 by poetgirl925

[KirkB]

They decided to make Palmer just like Oliver to parallel their relationships with Felicity. The funny thing is, they have to twist Palmer to fit this role, since the character traditionally is a scientist first and a superhero only on occasion. He probably should be more like Barry than Oliver. Though even that comparison isn't entirely fair since Barry interacted with the entire team and so far Palmer has only hung around Felicity, except of course for five minutes in the season premiere when he quickly demonstrated he was a far better businessman than Oliver could ever hope to be.

[Chaser]

I want Olicity. I want it really bad. I don't want the characters I love to be destroyed to get there. I'm good with the progression of Olicity this season, but they are going to lose me if they don't give me Felicity's POV. I don't want to be fan-wanking her interactions with Ray to try and figure out what she is feeling. If the writing had been better this season, I wouldn't be side-eying all this Ray and Felicity's talk. But it hasn't and so I am.

 

I want Felicity to chose herself in this next episode. I want her to be honest with Oliver (and yes I need an I love you), even if it hurts. I need her to shut down Ray so that Ray can be an actual friend. And can she please talk to Diggle again. 

 

The writers think a woman will only feel valued if she has a man to value her. Felicity can value herself.

[poetgirl925]

That's a good point. I've been guessing about Felicity's feelings. Maybe if I had her POV I'd feel differently about Olicity this season.

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

I'm definitely in the minority in this forum for thinking the show is actually handling Olicity better than their other storylines these season.

 

We are a minority of two, then.  I feel the same way.  I understand both points of view although I agree I'd like to start hearing more from Felicity.  I don't think Felicity is being ruined by this story with Ray any more than Oliver was ruined by the story with Sara last year. Am I happy when two people I want together get involved with others?  Nope, but people are messy.  They make mistakes, they do stupid things and sometimes they make decisions so ass-backwards, it defies all logic.  I don't have a problem with my favorite characters being unlikeable at times.  Characters/couples that never screw up bore me to tears.  

Edited January 31, 2015 by MsSchadenfreude

[wonderwall]

Make that 3. I think out of everything this season, Oliver/felicity's relationship has been handled the best. While I am a bit miffed that we haven't explicitly been told how Felicity feels about Oliver, I definitely understand why she isn't very vocal about her feelings. Felicity, while she wears her heart on her sleeve, she tries to distance herself from any romantic feelings for Oliver because as history has shown, men and Felicity don't mix. So there's definitely an abandonment issue there. I can see why Felicity would want to protect herself from her feelings for Oliver because he's clearly not a reliable person. BUT I also believe that we've seen how Felicity feels through the little things:

 

• The way she constantly brought Oliver up in conversation when she went to Central city
• That speech she gave Barry about him and Iris on the train is clearly how she feels
• In episode 7 you can see that she clearly was still holding onto hope that Oliver will come around, but he crushed that with his speech to Cupid
• In episode 8 they were all married and it showed that Felicity knows Oliver like the back of her hand
• Then there's episode 9 where she puts aside everything just to comfort Oliver and help him through that rough time regarding Thea/Malcolm, she wanted him to fight for his life. 
• When Oliver is gone, Felicity was terrified and in deep denial about whether or not he's actually alive in episode 10. She mourned him. She went through all of the stages of grief. Obviously her feelings were extremely deep if she went through all of this. 
• Episode 11 showed that Felicity was closed off to the world because of Oliver's death, but she only decided to fight back for herself. IDK her reaction to his death seemed like a reaction a person who loved him deeply would have. 

 

Sure she hasn't explicitly told anyone how she feels, but her feelings are mirrored through her actions and not just in season 3, but in seasons 1 and 2. But right now both of them are going through growing pains. Both as individuals and as a couple. They aren't on the same page, so it would be ridiculous for them to get together or not have tension between them. So yeah, I think that the show has handled this couple well. I don't have to suspend my beliefs in regards to their actions. While I would've liked for the show to make a smoother transition for Oliver's feelings regarding Felicity, everything else was wonderfully angsty and painful. 

Edited January 31, 2015 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

Four!

[HighHopes]

In episode 7 you can see that she clearly was still holding onto hope that Oliver will come around, but he crushed that with his speech to Cupid

 

 

That was my impression too. She's holding out hope, he says that he can't be with anyone ever, and that was it for her. That's when she finally decided to move on completely. 

 

I'm still wondering what exactly Oliver was planning on saying or doing when he wen to visit her at her office. He clearly wasn't ready to start a relationship, so was he going to give her another maybe? A "Not now but soon...Hopefully"?. 

 

And make that 5. 

[Genki]

That was my impression too. She's holding out hope, he says that he can't be with anyone ever, and that was it for her. That's when she finally decided to move on completely. 

 

I'm still wondering what exactly Oliver was planning on saying or doing when he wen to visit her at her office. He clearly wasn't ready to start a relationship, so was he going to give her another maybe? A "Not now but soon...Hopefully"?. 

 

And make that 5. 

 

I think it was going to be a "Not now, but I'm working hard to get there" but as hard as it was for Felicity to hear, could she really take what Oliver said to Carrie as the whole truth? Especially since he was talking down a mentally unstable killer.

 

I understand it upsetting Felicity and her running form the Foundry and I know she knows there was some truth in what he said, it make her human to be hurt by it. 

 

I like how they are handling Olicity this season, because it is giving Oliver growth and Felicity independence, however I do not like how they are handling Raylicity. 

 

Does that count me as 6 or 5.5?

Edited January 31, 2015 by Genki

[dtissagirl]

If I put Oliver and Felicity in a bubble and just factor their actions and reactions to each other this season? Yeah, I'm pretty okay with how they're being written. It's not the kind of story I wanted for them, but it doesn't ping any of my BULLSHIT alarms. They could be talking to each other a little bit more, but I get why they aren't.

And I really truly love how much Oliver has grown this season, pretty much in direct response to loving Felicity.

But if I look at the entire show, that's when the frustration sets. Diggle telling Felicity that she's messing up Oliver's game. Felicity's lack of someone, anyone, to talk about her feelings. Crazy Eyes existing in nature. The looming of the Baby Mama. When I take them out of the bubble, I'm more annoyed than excited of what's next for these two crazy kids.

[calliope1975]

But if I look at the entire show, that's when the frustration sets. Diggle telling Felicity that she's messing up Oliver's game. Felicity's lack of someone, anyone, to talk about her feelings. Crazy Eyes existing in nature. The looming of the Baby Mama. When I take them out of the bubble, I'm more annoyed than excited of what's next for these two crazy kids.

 

That's how I feel as well. On their own, I am fine with the progression of Olicity. When I look at how TPTB have completely botched the rest of the show, it makes me apprehensive for the future. I don't want to watch OOC Felicity and Oliver. 

[apinknightmare]

Crazy Eyes existing in nature. 

 Maybe he'll go extinct soon. Short circuit in the suit, perhaps? 

[dtissagirl]

I want Sakura to be right that Laurel's a robot. Crazy Eyes is building a robot suit. Spoiler alert: the robots fall in love.

[kismet]

I think it was going to be a "Not now, but I'm working hard to get there" but as hard as it was for Felicity to hear, could she really take what Oliver said to Carrie as the whole truth? Especially since he was talking down a mentally unstable killer.

 

I understand it upsetting Felicity and her running form the Foundry and I know she knows there was some truth in what he said, it make her human to be hurt by it. 

 

I like how they are handling Olicity this season, because it is giving Oliver growth and Felicity independence, however I do not like how they are handling Raylicity. 

 

Does that count me as 6 or 5.5?

Am I officially 7? @genki you're 6. I consider olicity & raylicity 2 distinct plot lines that occasionally cross paths, although it seems they will likely cross more in the future. I guess we can start that count whenever that happens. I'll join the group that thinks they completely mishandled the Raylicity arc and it has absolutely nothing to do with Olicity.

 

I think he was gonna apologize to Felcity for the words he told Cupid hurting her. I think he might have told her he doesn't want to die in the foundry. And I think he would have told her plain & simple that he loves her. But I think he was also gonna let her go, by telling her that he loved her too much to see her unhappy and ask her to move fwd with her life and forget about him. Similar to some of the stuff he told Tommy & Laurel in S1. TBH, Im sorta glad he didn't have the opportunity to talk to her - it would have been weak and poor timing from a story standpoint. Plus the desk swiping outburst is pretty freaking cool and I loved it as cheesy as it might have been.

 

That being said, a good reason im ok with how they handled it  is that they haven't bumbled or mishandled the olicity arc, as they have with pretty much every other arc they have going this season. But there is still more season left, so Im hopeful they might get it together for the last half.

[statsgirl]

But if I look at the entire show, that's when the frustration sets. Diggle telling Felicity that she's messing up Oliver's game. Felicity's lack of someone, anyone, to talk about her feelings. Crazy Eyes existing in nature. The looming of the Baby Mama. When I take them out of the bubble, I'm more annoyed than excited of what's next for these two crazy kids.

This.

 

I don't mind Ray existing, I actually think I'd like him in a platonic friendship with Felicity, two science nerds working together on his suit, Ray still too much in love with Anna to even think about moving on to someone else.  It's just the writers going to the sleaziest, old tropes in the world, Oliver seeing the kiss, Felicity almost kissing Ray when the tears are barely dry on her cheeks, that's what kills it for me.

 

Ray realizing he wants to fight to protect the living and Felicity changing her mind and going back to Team Arrow would have been even stronger if they had a deep friendship and he wanted to protect his good friend, as Roy would.  It's the love interest B.S. that kills Ray and the Olicity storyline for me.  And kills Felicity's character even more. She stayed single for 5 years because of Cooper but she's moved on from Oliver in a week?  Show, what are you doing to Felicity?

 

And STFU Diggle if you're going to take sides.  (See, even Diggle suffers from this Ray LI crap.)

[kismet]

I have to say I think the original Team Arrow will always be Oliver, Diggle & Felicity. Diggle was thrust upon Oliver, but he saw potential and chose to trust/recruit him. He sought out Felicity when he needed help & even if he didn't let her in on the secret, he openly trusted her. I think it was only a matter of time, before he revealed the truth. I always believed that Felicity was the 1st person he turned out of choice and not just necessity. He might have told Diggle, but his hand was forced after D was shot. He crawled into her car after he was shot, he didn’t call Diggle which would have been more logical. But I will say there is some deep trust in someone to crawl into their car as you are bleeding out. That's trust... for someone who was just learning to trust again. The three of them had an interesting and fun dynamic that I think balanced out the dark of S1&2. I think it’s the humanity they brought to Oliver and the cause that made the team so power to watch and so easy to root for. I never understood why in the episode when Roy gets introduced to Team Arrow, he never liked the moniker. Maybe it’s because he never felt that they were a team, but rather just an extension of him & his cause. That’s what made the trio so special. They were better in so many ways when they were together as it magnified their individual strengths and minimized their weaknesses. But I sorta felt that by the end of S1, the trio was more like family than just a team. So perhaps as the Team expands we can see more special moments between the original trio not because they are TA, but because they are family, they are partners. I just love their chemistry together, so hopefully they can bring that back. In recent episodes, it is nice to see F&D pick up the mantle and own the cause. That I think was crucial in establishing them as leaders & independent heroes outside of Oliver.

 

I never considered Laurel or Lance as members of Team Arrow, they were friends, collaborators & allies. But when they worked with him they were utilizing their mutual assets. It was never about them working as a team. He never sought their advice or made day to day plans/strategies with them. They were important to the Arrow, but they were not part of the Team. The Arrow also worked with the Flash, LoA, Bratva, ARGUS & the suicide squad and I would include them in the collaborators/allies, but not Team. Well Barry and the Flash team are more like friends/allies. But in the end, even Oliver stated that it had to get back to the original 3. I truly believe that deep down Oliver will always see F&D as his partners & family, while everyone else who works with or as a member of Team Arrow as friends or allies. There is a distinction in his mind, just as it is in so many of the viewer's mind. So depending on how Oliver comes back to SC, I can imagine him having some trouble with how his team has changed in his absence. Not because he’s controlling, but simply because it is different from how he conceptualized his role and those around him. Give him time, I'm sure he’ll jump on board. It takes time to adjust to changes when you’re still healing from 7.5 years of darkness and near death experiences.

 

Im not upset that Team Arrow is expanding it only makes sense. The writers do need to take some lessons in writing an ensemble though. With so many characters, it’s easy to lose focus and you would hate to have actors talent go to waste. But I sorta like the Team concept, so long as it does not diminish the roles of F&D. Hero vs superhero should not be something this team/ EPs dwells on, each play a vital role in making it happen. TPTB need to recognize this and not just focus on the masks, esp when bringing ARROW to public conventions/symposiums. It doesn't send the right message. The new members do change the dynamic a bit, so there will be growing pains. But until honestly, the new team could not exist without F&D, they are irreplaceable. Team Arrow with Roy & Sara at the end of S2, was a pretty good team without cutting down F/D, I hope Team Arrow 2.0 does that same. I think that this new expanded Team Arrow 2.0 will get the job done in Starling City. Maybe Oliver could even take a vacation that doesn’t include torture & death, its well overdue. It will also him help force him further on his journey to being a complete person again and not just some lone protector of SC, destined to die alone in the foundry or on some cliff somewhere.

[MsSchadenfreude]

 

She stayed single for 5 years because of Cooper but she's moved on from Oliver in a week? 

 

How do we know she stayed single for 5 years because of Cooper?  That wasn't indicated in the show.  Just because we didn't see her date, does not mean she has been single for five years.  

[statsgirl]

Felicity told her mother "I'm sorry I'm chronically single" (or something like that) when they were having their fight so the imnpression was that even if she had dated, there wasn't a serious relationship since Cooper.

Edited February 1, 2015 by statsgirl

[jay741982]

I have to say I think the original Team Arrow will always be Oliver, Diggle & Felicity. Diggle was thrust upon Oliver, but he saw potential and chose to trust/recruit him. He sought out Felicity when he needed help & even if he didn't let her in on the secret, he openly trusted her. I think it was only a matter of time, before he revealed the truth. I always believed that Felicity was the 1st person he turned out of choice and not just necessity. He might have told Diggle, but his hand was forced after D was shot. He crawled into her car after he was shot, he didn’t call Diggle which would have been more logical. But I will say there is some deep trust in someone to crawl into their car as you are bleeding out. That's trust... for someone who was just learning to trust again. The three of them had an interesting and fun dynamic that I think balanced out the dark of S1&2. I think it’s the humanity they brought to Oliver and the cause that made the team so power to watch and so easy to root for. I never understood why in the episode when Roy gets introduced to Team Arrow, he never liked the moniker. Maybe it’s because he never felt that they were a team, but rather just an extension of him & his cause. That’s what made the trio so special. They were better in so many ways when they were together as it magnified their individual strengths and minimized their weaknesses. But I sorta felt that by the end of S1, the trio was more like family than just a team. So perhaps as the Team expands we can see more special moments between the original trio not because they are TA, but because they are family, they are partners. I just love their chemistry together, so hopefully they can bring that back. In recent episodes, it is nice to see F&D pick up the mantle and own the cause. That I think was crucial in establishing them as leaders & independent heroes outside of Oliver.

 

I never considered Laurel or Lance as members of Team Arrow, they were friends, collaborators & allies. But when they worked with him they were utilizing their mutual assets. It was never about them working as a team. He never sought their advice or made day to day plans/strategies with them. They were important to the Arrow, but they were not part of the Team. The Arrow also worked with the Flash, LoA, Bratva, ARGUS & the suicide squad and I would include them in the collaborators/allies, but not Team. Well Barry and the Flash team are more like friends/allies. But in the end, even Oliver stated that it had to get back to the original 3. I truly believe that deep down Oliver will always see F&D as his partners & family, while everyone else who works with or as a member of Team Arrow as friends or allies. There is a distinction in his mind, just as it is in so many of the viewer's mind. So depending on how Oliver comes back to SC, I can imagine him having some trouble with how his team has changed in his absence. Not because he’s controlling, but simply because it is different from how he conceptualized his role and those around him. Give him time, I'm sure he’ll jump on board. It takes time to adjust to changes when you’re still healing from 7.5 years of darkness and near death experiences.

 

Im not upset that Team Arrow is expanding it only makes sense. The writers do need to take some lessons in writing an ensemble though. With so many characters, it’s easy to lose focus and you would hate to have actors talent go to waste. But I sorta like the Team concept, so long as it does not diminish the roles of F&D. Hero vs superhero should not be something this team/ EPs dwells on, each play a vital role in making it happen. TPTB need to recognize this and not just focus on the masks, esp when bringing ARROW to public conventions/symposiums. It doesn't send the right message. The new members do change the dynamic a bit, so there will be growing pains. But until honestly, the new team could not exist without F&D, they are irreplaceable. Team Arrow with Roy & Sara at the end of S2, was a pretty good team without cutting down F/D, I hope Team Arrow 2.0 does that same. I think that this new expanded Team Arrow 2.0 will get the job done in Starling City. Maybe Oliver could even take a vacation that doesn’t include torture & death, its well overdue. It will also him help force him further on his journey to being a complete person again and not just some lone protector of SC, destined to die alone in the foundry or on some cliff somewhere.

Good post! I'd like to add I'd like to see Oliver be able to take a little time off along with Felicity while Dig Roy Laurel and new member Thea protect the city .

[apinknightmare]

Felicity told her mother "I'm sorry I'm chronically single" (or something like that) when they were having their fight so the imnpression was that even if she had dated, there wasn't a serious relationship since Cooper.

 

True, but that doesn't mean she stayed single because of what happened to him. To me, "chronically single" is generally used to describe people who are unlucky in love/dating, not people who abstain from it because they suffered a loss. 

[jay741982]

True, but that doesn't mean she stayed single because of what happened to him. To me, "chronically single" is generally used to describe people who are unlucky in love/dating, not people who abstain from it because they suffered a loss.

This! For all we know she's had sex since Cooper she just hasn't had guy she loves like Oliver

[kismet]

True, but that doesn't mean she stayed single because of what happened to him. To me, "chronically single" is generally used to describe people who are unlucky in love/dating, not people who abstain from it because they suffered a loss. 

It also reflective of someone who has trouble making relationships work because of issues like trust & abandonment. People who are afraid of relationships because they are afraid of getting hurt. It might just be unluck, but often it has more to do with the person than the people they are dating. And often the people they are dating reflect how they feel about themselves in r/t wanting a relationship. I see both Felicity & Oliver fall into this category, which is why they are having so much trouble getting out of the gate. Oliver chose to sleep his way through SC before the island, and his relationships seemed more r/t convenience when he came back, not actually wanting a real relationship. We don't know what Felicity chose to do, but it does seem like she tended to avoid long term relationships. But they both tend to run from their interpersonal relationships, rather than deal with them head on so it could be for a million reasons she said she was chronically single. My guess is it has less to do with her options and more with her emotional baggage. Which is another reason, I don't want to see her rush a physical relationship with Ray. Both of them are too emotionally raw, that I think it would just be a mistake or distraction. Both trying to move fwd, but not really thinking long term. I do see it as a rebound, so maybe it won't mean anything. But it could be an easy way for them to write it off as a mistake, should they have to drop the romantic angle for other plots/spin offs. Wouldn't it fun to hear another Because of the life we lead speech....

[statsgirl]

True, but that doesn't mean she stayed single because of what happened to him. To me, "chronically single" is generally used to describe people who are unlucky in love/dating, not people who abstain from it because they suffered a loss. 

Chronically single seems to me to describe someone who doesn't get into relationships, for whatever reason.

 

I presume it wasn't because of her father because she was in a successful relationship with Cooper till the FBI stepped in.  It's not because of her looks because she's gorgeous even when she's a geek, or her manners or a lack of intelligence or wit and desire for sex. So for whatever reason, that line told me that Felicity hasn't had any relationships that Donna would deem worthy of being called a relationship.

 

In relationships you make your own luck. You may not find the perfect soulmate but you can have a decent relationship with someone nice, someone to go out with and watch movies with, to cuddle when you feel lonely, with a little effort and a little desire. If Felicity has been chronically single since her relationship with Cooper ended, it's because she's wanted to be single, and what happened to Cooper seems to me to be a reason for it.

[HighHopes]

I just posted a fan video in the Clocktower thread that had Felicity as the girl Oliver was seeing before the ship went down (there was no mention of Sara/cheating..) and while watching it I realized that season three is season one redone. They are now having Felicity as the girl Oliver left behind when he died, who moved on and started a new relationship only for Oliver to come back from the dead. It didn't work in season one with the "epic" couple of Laurel and Oliver, so they are doing it now. Just sped up a whole lot. 

 

I'm trying to figure out if this is on purpose, or coincidental, and if it was on purpose...why?

[TanyaKay]

At least the season 1 triangle was not really a triangle. At least not for the first 20 episode. It was only towards the end of the season Oliver decided to be the class A douche and did what he did to Tommy. This year's triangle is also not really a triangle - at least not so far - but it is a lot more annoying, probably because I am invested in Oliver and Felicity and I was not really invested in any of the romantic angles of that triangle (my favoured version would have been bros before hoes). Can the writers accept defeat and admit that they cannot write a triangle for shit!

I think the only show runner who has incorporated decent, believable and human love triangles on television is Shonda Rhimes and we all know that Marc Guggenheim ain't no Shonda Rhimes.

[kismet]

At least the season 1 triangle was not really a triangle. At least not for the first 20 episode. It was only towards the end of the season Oliver decided to be the class A douche and did what he did to Tommy. This year's triangle is also not really a triangle - at least not so far - but it is a lot more annoying, probably because I am invested in Oliver and Felicity and I was not really invested in any of the romantic angles of that triangle (my favoured version would have been bros before hoes). Can the writers accept defeat and admit that they cannot write a triangle for shit!

I think the only show runner who has incorporated decent, believable and human love triangles on television is Shonda Rhimes and we all know that Marc Guggenheim ain't no Shonda Rhimes.

Shonda Rimes nails the triangles. I mean even when you pick a side, you still find yourself rooting for the other side if the moment is filmed right. Because at the end of the day, Shonda makes you invested in her characters. You care what they do and who they are, so when they are torn between 2 choices you really feel their agony. The angst is real and not forced. Similar actually to a show called Felicity that was on a few years back where the main character was stuck in a love triangle for most of the show. People who watched the show, still declare themselves either Team Ben or Team Noel to this day. Granted they all were in college at the time, so the triangle was more palatable, also they all dated other people as well so it wasn't all angst all the time. But in it Felicity made Ben a better person, while Noel seemed to be the perfect match. It really was a fight between destiny & reality. But it was enjoyable to watch.You rooted for her to make the right decision for her and what was great was that although she had these 2 great guys, she also chose herself on many an occasion.

 

Arrow not so much on the triangles. I care about Felicity & Oliver. I love that Oliver wants her to be happy, even if its not with him. But to preach Diggles words, if you wanted that you would be with her. I'm dying to know how Felicity really feels. I mean I want to know if what Ive been seeing for seasons, it just all in my head. I don't think it is, but who knows. Because most of us can see that even if Raylicity gets out of the port, its not gonna have a long journey. It'll crash and burn, so why torment us with it? Let Felicity be independent and dating other people that are not carbon copies of the scenario she just got out of. Bring in some guest stars, spice it up for the girl. Ray is either a LI or a spin-off interest, you can't have him be both without the audience getting a little suspect of his intentions. Give Ray some actual qualities that make us want to want him. Don't just tell us he is charming. Make him charming, not creepy. Prior to Oliver's death he had many opportunities to make an impression, beyond the stand-in shoulder to cry on. Felicity wants more out of life, I want more out of Ray before I believe he is the better option. That being said Oliver time and time again has told Felicity that he is not an option for her and his death solidified that, so what is a girl to do? Choose option C. TBD.

 

Ultimately, the problem with their triangle writing is that it is greatly imbalanced, One side is always more sympathetic (Tommy s1, Oliver s3) and the other (oliver s1, Ray s3) always appears opportunistic. So its not really a triangle, just more a nuisance, cockblock, relationship tripper. At least in S1, oliver & laurel had history, so you could understand their inconsistencies, sleeping with Oliver was predictable & expected. But it was made awful because Oliver literally the same day had told his friend that he was not gonna pursue her. That is the biggest violation of bro code, esp after Tommy made such an effort to apologize for moving in on Laurel after Oliver was presumed dead. Imagine what will happen to Oliver & laurel if they ever found out that Tommy knew they slept together. The crazy angst that will ensue. The revenge of Tommy, I can see it know during one of their drug induced fugue states.

[statsgirl]

The problem is that most show write triangles to delay the OTP, not to explore the characters themselves and see them grow.

 

The Oliver/Laurel/Tommy triangle at the end of s1 was to up the angst for Tommy's death.  The Oliver/Sara/Felicity  and Oliver/Felicity/Ray ones are to delay Olicity.

 

Maybe I wouldn't have the idea of Raylicity so much if I could believe that both Felicity's and Ray's characters would grow and learn during it rather than it being constructed for more of Oliver's manpain..  But really, with MG and AK helming what are the odds?

[AustenChick]

I'm going to say Olicity been handled fine this season. (So I'm 7? 8?) Here's how I look at it - someone used the word transference when describing Felicity and Ray. That Felicity was often transferring feelings re: Oliver to Ray. Flip that thought around and apply it to Ray. Ray couldn't save Anna, but now Felicity is there. He was able to save her. When these two people look at each other, I think they like each other as people, but I don't think they really see each other. Felicity is seeing the Oliver she wants in Ray and Ray is seeing the Anna he can save in Felicity. By going by this logic, I can understand why they seem to be reaching for each other -- they're seeing what they want to see in each other. But does Felicity really know Ray? Does Ray know her? Not really. Felicity's speech re: Ray to the business people in Draw Back Your Bow is really sounding like she's talking about Oliver. Also, she's coming up with that speech right after she checks in on Oliver's reaction after she mentions her dinner with Ray. She also says that speech after Diggle tells her Oliver is upset she's spending time wiht Palmer. Look at Left Behind -- Felicity got upset at Ray because Oliver was gone -- she wasn't speaking to Ray, but the Oliver that was no longer there. If you think back to Felicity's interactions with Ray, they are really all in reaction to stuff that's gone down with Oliver. I didn't see that Ray was doing the same thing until in Left Behind when he got pissed at Felicity re: her saying what Anna would have wanted. In the next ep, Midnight City, he's able to save her from Brick and his crew. Then he tells her that he's not doing this for Anna, but now to protect her. It's all about transerference. Or, that's at least what I'm telling myself until Oliver and Felicity get over their issues and make out properly.

[Chiny11]

 

 

Ultimately, the problem with their triangle writing is that it is greatly imbalanced, One side is always more sympathetic (Tommy s1, Oliver s3) and the other (oliver s1, Ray s3) always appears opportunistic. So its not really a triangle, just more a nuisance, cockblock, relationship tripper. At least in S1, oliver & laurel had history, so you could understand their inconsistencies, sleeping with Oliver was predictable & expected. But it was made awful because Oliver literally the same day had told his friend that he was not gonna pursue her. That is the biggest violation of bro code, esp after Tommy made such an effort to apologize for moving in on Laurel after Oliver was presumed dead. Imagine what will happen to Oliver & laurel if they ever found out that Tommy knew they slept together. The crazy angst that will ensue. The revenge of Tommy, I can see it know during one of their drug induced fugue states.

 

Forgive me but I thought Tommy confronted Oliver about the fact that her slept with Laurel right after advising him (Tommy) to mend things with her. I know I didn't imagine that scene. 

[kismet]

I'm going to say Olicity been handled fine this season. (So I'm 7? 8?) Here's how I look at it - someone used the word transference when describing Felicity and Ray. That Felicity was often transferring feelings re: Oliver to Ray. Flip that thought around and apply it to Ray. Ray couldn't save Anna, but now Felicity is there. He was able to save her. When these two people look at each other, I think they like each other as people, but I don't think they really see each other. Felicity is seeing the Oliver she wants in Ray and Ray is seeing the Anna he can save in Felicity. By going by this logic, I can understand why they seem to be reaching for each other -- they're seeing what they want to see in each other. But does Felicity really know Ray? Does Ray know her? Not really. Felicity's speech re: Ray to the business people in Draw Back Your Bow is really sounding like she's talking about Oliver. Also, she's coming up with that speech right after she checks in on Oliver's reaction after she mentions her dinner with Ray. She also says that speech after Diggle tells her Oliver is upset she's spending time wiht Palmer. Look at Left Behind -- Felicity got upset at Ray because Oliver was gone -- she wasn't speaking to Ray, but the Oliver that was no longer there. If you think back to Felicity's interactions with Ray, they are really all in reaction to stuff that's gone down with Oliver. I didn't see that Ray was doing the same thing until in Left Behind when he got pissed at Felicity re: her saying what Anna would have wanted. In the next ep, Midnight City, he's able to save her from Brick and his crew. Then he tells her that he's not doing this for Anna, but now to protect her. It's all about transerference. Or, that's at least what I'm telling myself until Oliver and Felicity get over their issues and make out properly.

well said.

[Genki]

If you think back to Felicity's interactions with Ray, they are really all in reaction to stuff that's gone down with Oliver. I didn't see that Ray was doing the same thing until in Left Behind when he got pissed at Felicity re: her saying what Anna would have wanted. In the next ep, Midnight City, he's able to save her from Brick and his crew. Then he tells her that he's not doing this for Anna, but now to protect her. It's all about transerference. Or, that's at least what I'm telling myself until Oliver and Felicity get over their issues and make out properly.

 

While I don't love it I can buy transference when it comes to Felicity's interaction with Ray, but I really don't love it when it comes to Ray's feelings/interactions with Felicity and here's why.

 

Felcity's transference builds Ray up, good man, trying to save people, potential hero, etc. Ray's on the other hand damsels Felicity. Anna was a victim and Felicity is not, but he sees her as someone who needs to be saved. She saved the day in 2.23 and saved herself and her mother in 2.05. When needed she steps up and overcomes her fears to get stuff done. Granted Ray does't know about her secret vigilante lifestyle and he does appreciate her mind, but what a strong contrast Felicity in 3.11 was to Felicity in 2.01. 

Edited February 1, 2015 by Genki

[kismet]

Forgive me but I thought Tommy confronted Oliver about the fact that her slept with Laurel right after advising him (Tommy) to mend things with her. I know I didn't imagine that scene.

Yep. You were right. Sorry! Double checked the DVDs. Guess I had forgot about that. He was pretty pissed so there wasn't much resolution cuz then the undertaking happened. Now that I watched it again, I wonder if that contributed to his escape back to the island, he was trying to repent for the betrayal in addition to Tommy thinking he's a killer. It also throws. Another weight into the baggage of lauriver, which is why if TPTB ever go down that road it will be yet another thing for them to overcome.

Edited February 1, 2015 by kismet

[tv echo]

Honestly, I don't know how I feel anymore about how the Oliver and Felicity relationship has been handled this season.  I think I'm more upset by Felicity's OOC actions - esp. having her help Laurel deceive Quentin.  I know some reviewers have said Felicity's grief has put her off-balance and that's why she's not acting like herself, but I think even a grieving Felicity would not do something so despicable - or become romantically interested in Ray.

[jay741982]

Like other people have pointed out Felicity looked upset about Deceiving Quentin like that. Yeah it sucks that it happened. Still want Olicity big time cause its one of the few things keeping me hanging on though MG sucks

[SmallScreenDiva]

Came across this quote on Tumblr and hunted down the source (Examiner.com's review of "Midnight City"; the rest of it is pretty spot on, too)

 

"There's something hilariously endearing about the fact that Oliver Queen - hunky former playboy currently in the midst of a sexual dry spell after going cold turkey on the ladies at the end of Season 2 - dreams about confessing his love and chastely kissing the woman he's been mooning over for months. He's always so courtly in his attempts to woo Felicity that it's hard to root against him. If not for the sudden appearance of a scimitar in his abdomen and blood spurting from his mouth, Oliver probably would have capped off the dream by asking for the privilege of holding her hand as he walked her to her car. Even in the privacy of his wildest dreams, Oliver doesn't take any liberties with Felicity. That level of respect has laid the foundation for a potential lasting relationship.

 

Also, for whenever he finally breaks and throws her up against a wall to have his way with her.

 

Ahem."

[jay741982]

Oliver needs to do that with her! I think Felicity

Would like that

[looptab]

That was hilarious!

[apinknightmare]

Oliver is so measured and careful with Felicity. You can tell this is something different and new and special to him and he's trying really hard not to fuck it up while simultaneously fucking it alllllllll the way up.

[Password]

I just saw gifs of Felicity patching up Ray (I refuse to YouTube it) and what amazes me is how the writers have isolated her with Ray. Episode 7, 9 and now 11 IMO if watched without any context, if you don't know about Olicity, if you don't know about their 2 years of history, what she's done for Oliver what he's done for HER, you'd think OK this is cool. (Even though ep 7 was very "where's HR when you need them")

However, when you KNOW the context in which that relationship is forming, if you KNOW Oliver just died and Felicity was cut up, that scene. Makes. No. Sense. It's like whaaaaaaa? Uncomfortable? Nope. WRONG? Yep. No who am I kidding that ish is uncomfortable. Their storyline (Ray and Felicity's) has so little to do with ANY of what's happening. It's like they're on a different show, with a different hero origin story, with no team Arrow. I'm not surprised people were complaining. Writers just no. Please.