Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[TanyaKay]

I have said it in the past and I am gonna say it again. In half of those instances, a different actress would've made the difference and shot the scenes differently and brought sensitivity and nuance to the same badly written scenes.

Case in point is episode Time of Death. I, and a lot of Emily Bett fans hated that episode because they made Felicity looked insecure and very un Felicity like in that episode. But Emily worked with whatever material she was given and basically owned that episode with her performance, whether she was telling Oliver to go with Sara to the Lance Family dinner, talking with Diggle or being ridiculously cute when she was high on oxycodone. The last scenes was not a well written and I still cringe at the patronizing tone of "you will always be my girl Felicity" but Emily made that scene bearable by acting with just the right amount of levity and vulnerability. She was given the line from hell "please save Oliver" in episode 15 and somehow she even worked that. Willa Holland handled her scenes being super brat from hell with aplomb. You know that she is being a spoilt brat but you also understand why she is behaving that way and that's what a better actor do. KC, I am afraid, is extremely one dimensional and extremely lucky that she continues to get work despite being awful at her craft.

[wonderwall]

I don't think people hated the episode because of Felicity though.  People hated the episode because of all the Oliver/Lance family bullshit. Overall, felicitys scenes were the highlight of the episode. 

[statsgirl]

I think the EPs thought they were doing a good Felicity episode but it seems like few people like it, or even her role in it because it just didn't work.  Maybe because there wasn't enough time to spend on her story because the Lance Family Drama was also taking place, maybe just because it was badly written.   The 'scar in her mouth' scene still makes me cringe even though EBR acting the hell out of it..  And someone needs to give the costume person a reprimand for putting her in those old lady clothes in ep 15.

I think the whole point of that disaster was that the writers wanted people as well as the other characters to underestimate Laurel and then when she 'helped'  Oliver it would make her seem more badass and more important to the team and not useless. 

 

However,  it didn't seem to turn out that way. The whole episode made laurel look petulant and idiotic as she didn't do what she was told again

Maybe they wanted her badass and finally on the Team but what it did was show why she shouldn't be there.  As a team member, it's sometimes a good thing if  you argue a different point of view with the leader but in the end, there has to be a leader and everyone else has to follow his/her orders or it all falls apart. Laurel didn't and all she ended up doing was demonstrating that she didn't deserve a place on the Team.

 

That said, it was combination of writing and acting that blew it because if KC had played Laurel less entitled and more genuinely willing to do whatever was needed even it it was menial, it would have played differently.

Edited August 24, 2014 by statsgirl

[icandigit]

Right now I'm watching various scenes from the Felicity and Oliver stairway of love.Next up clips of Laurel and Oliver in the hallway of doom.

[TanyaKay]

And someone needs to give the costume person a reprimand for putting her in those old lady clothes in ep 15.

 

It was not even a dress, it was that bejewelled collar that she wore over her coat. It was really bad.

That bejewelled collar was available on Anthropologie website and even before I saw that episode, I wondered why anyone would wear a collar like that reminds one of Russian Czars.

[TanyaKay]

oh while we are discussing KC and her acting abilities (or lack of her acting abilities) I just saw a tumblr posts with gifs of a sex scene she did for one of her movies.

It looked like a fairly racy scene (she was topless and there was a lot bumping/grinding). I am not judging her choice to appear topless in a film but I do wonder that a woman who has said multiple times that she is embarrassed/awkward because Stephen was shirtless in a scene is obviously okay with working in this R rated film.

I smell hypocrisy.

PS: In case anyone wants to see those gifs, you can find them on Katie Cassidy tag.

Edited August 24, 2014 by TanyaKay

[tv echo]

Sometimes when I'm not sure if the problem is the writing or the acting, I do this imaginary thing in my head where I switch the actors playing the roles.  For example, I imagine the Lance family dinner and Oliver-Laurel hallway scene, but with CL playing Laurel (saying Laurel's lines) and KC playing Sara (saying Sara's lines) - and see if my opinions change about those two characters.  And they do.  But then I imagine the Lance family reunion in Laurel's apartment when Laurel throws the glass, with KC and CL switching parts again, and my opinions don't change for that scene.

Edited August 24, 2014 by tv echo

[statsgirl]

I think the question for me would be whether CL (or someone else) could make me sympathetic to Laurel and understand why she threw the glass even though she shouldn't have.  

 

On paper, Laurel is in a really bad place.  She never completely got over what happened 6 years ago and it caused her parents to break up and her father to hit the bottle.  When Oliver returned, it brought it all back again, along with her confused feelings about him.  Then Tommy died, and CNRI closed and she started drinking and taking drugs to cope and she loses her job with the DA's office, and she's alone and more isolated than before.  She could really use someone she knows is on her side unconditionally (and not just to get her into AA).  

 

She's accepted Sara dying and then Sara shows up and her parents are all Sara! Sara! and when at her apartment when she's expected to act like it's all okay, it's just too much for her.

 

An actress who could make me feel Laurel's pain and understand why she acted like that could have pulled that scene off.  Instead, it was like Laurel was upset because she wasn't the centre of everyone's attention.  It's the biggest acting requirement of the scene to play because obviously Quentin and Dinah are so happy, and we understand Sara's mixed feelings but we have to understand all the feelings Laurel is going through while seeing how she's falling apart.  Think about what Paul Blackthorne did during the dinner scene when Dinah said she wasn't coming back.

 

In a sense, I feel for the writers because it could have been a really powerful scene.  But KC isn't Meryl Streep, she isn't even Mamie Gummer, and I wish they would stop writing scenes for Laurel that KC can't pull off because it just brings more attention to the flaws in the show.

[BkWurm1]

I wish they would stop writing scenes for Laurel that KC can't pull off because it just brings more attention to the flaws in the show.

 

One of the  comments I've picked up on is the idea that KC is judged unfairly because she is given such heavy complicate scenes while other actresses don't have to do anything but be light and funny.

[ban1o]

Willa Holland has mostly heavy and emotional scenes as well. But  I think Willa is one of the best actresses on the show besides Susanna Thompson. 

Edited August 24, 2014 by ban1o

[apinknightmare]

oh while we are discussing KC and her acting abilities (or lack of her acting abilities) I just saw a tumblr posts with gifs of a sex scene she did for one of her movies.

It looked like a fairly racy scene (she was topless and there was a lot bumping/grinding). I am not judging her choice to appear topless in a film but I do wonder that a woman who has said multiple times that she is embarrassed/awkward because Stephen was shirtless in a scene is obviously okay with working in this R rated film.

I smell hypocrisy.

PS: In case anyone wants to see those gifs, you can find them on Katie Cassidy tag.

 

To be fair to her, the reason she said it was awkward for her is because Stephen is married and has a child. One could argue that if she has difficulty pretending, then she's probably in the wrong line of work, but I don't think there's anything hypocritical about her feelings on working with a married guy vs. choosing to do a sex scene in another movie.

[statsgirl]

One of the  comments I've picked up on is the idea that KC is judged unfairly because she is given such heavy complicate scenes while other actresses don't have to do anything but be light and funny.

Sounds like a crack at EBR because Felicity is light and funny.  It's worth noting that TV Line gave her runner-up Performer of the Week (to Peter Dinklage, I believe) for her "You're not done fighting" scenes.

 

 

Willa Holland has mostly heavy and emotional scenes as well. But  I think Willa is one of the best actresses on the show besides Susanna Thompson. 

I haven't seen her in anything else but I'm looking forward to what she can do opposite John Barrowman next season.

Edited August 24, 2014 by statsgirl

[catrox14]

One of the  comments I've picked up on is the idea that KC is judged unfairly because she is given such heavy complicate scenes while other actresses don't have to do anything but be light and funny.

 

That's news to Susanna Thompson, Willa Holland, Caity Lotz.

[TanyaKay]

To be fair to her, the reason she said it was awkward for her is because Stephen is married and has a child. One could argue that if she has difficulty pretending, then she's probably in the wrong line of work, but I don't think there's anything hypocritical about her feelings on working with a married guy vs. choosing to do a sex scene in another movie.

 

but she climbed Gorham like a tree in Harper's Island and he is married and has kids - in plural - and it was okay for her to do that - nothing awkward there.

I think she just cannot act or has some issues with SA and that would have been okay had she not talked about her awkwardness multiple times. When celebs make such faux pas, they do get judged - either for their inconsistency or their hypocrisy. Take your pick.

[TanyaKay]

One of the  comments I've picked up on is the idea that KC is judged unfairly because she is given such heavy complicate scenes while other actresses don't have to do anything but be light and funny.

 

even when Katie Cassidy was given light scenes (season 1 with Colin Donnel) she was below average in them and did not leave her mark. Those scenes were saved only because Colin was such a good actor.

 

All the other actresses such as Sussanna Thompson, Caity Lotz, Willa Holland and Celina Jade were given equally heavy and complex scenes to enact and they all did better than KC. Even Emily, whose Felicity is considered 'light' was given scenes like the one where she asked Oliver if he had any happy stories or her telling him about Diggle's break up with Carly or her fight with Oliver in 2x10 about her spending the time in Central City. The scene with Moira and the one where she told Oliver about Moira were also not light. and that is just the first half of season 2.

[apinknightmare]

 

but she climbed Gorham like a tree in Harper's Island and he is married and has kids - in plural - and it was okay for her to do that - nothing awkward there.

I think she just cannot act or has some issues with SA and that would have been okay had she not talked about her awkwardness multiple times. When celebs make such faux pas, they do get judged - either for their inconsistency or their hypocrisy. Take your pick.

 

 

I didn't watch Harper's Island, and I don't have a list of all her past coworkers who are married/have kids. Maybe she didn't know Christopher Gorham's wife? Katie's been in a few pictures with Stephen's wife, and the cast obviously hangs out together outside of work sometimes, so perhaps that's what makes it awkward for her? I feel like there are legit things to criticize her about, but sometimes she gets picked apart for every little thing. Yes, it was unwise for her to mention feeling awkward or uncomfortable around Stephen, but I personally can't fault someone for being uncomfortable, regardless of what the reasons are. Should she have mentioned it? No, but it is what it is.

Edited August 24, 2014 by apinknightmare

[Velocity23]

For me its the fact she change her tune from:

 

 

 

“I literally made him do it with his shirt off and videotape himself,” Cassidy, 25, laughs. “And I made him play me the video. And it was funny, because anytime we’d go out with the cast or friends and I was with him and someone hadn’t seen it, I’d be like, ‘Oh my gosh, you have to see this. Stephen, get your phone out.’ And I’d make him play the video.”

http://www.celebuzz.com/2012-07-14/‘arrow’s’-katie-cassidy-loves-co-star’s-sexy-chin-ups-‘i-made-him-do-it-with-his-shirt-off’-video/

 

To where we are know when she has such difficulties. That she even has to cover her eyes like at that DC panel at Comic Con. 

Edited August 24, 2014 by Velocity23

[dtissagirl]

I wouldn't be surprised if both KC and Amell are completely aware of their lack of onscreen chemistry. That blackhole of suckitude canNOT be fun on set. And that would certainly make the sex scenes super awkward. I don't really care why KC is rationalizing that as "oh, he's married" -- frankly, I'm just glad there hasn't been more terrible romantic scenes between them for me to feel all the secondhand embarrassment in the world.

 

The discussion about the heavy scenes made me think that one thing that might make Laurel more sympathetic is if they write her some humorous stuff. Relationship drama didn't work, family drama didn't work, alcohol, drugs and depression didn't work... maybe they have to give her the opposite of that in S3. Just let her meet-cute Ted Grant, and make a couple of jokes to her father, and see what happens. Because it's when they've given KC the really heavy stuff that she started resorting to soap-opera over-acting, and while I was laughing my ass off AT her, it was definitely not their intention.

Edited August 24, 2014 by dancingnancy

[catrox14]

It almost feels like she's just making excuses for why they have no chemistry.  Whatever. To me it doesn't matter why they don't have chemistry, they just don't. I tend to put it on KC because Amell has chemistry with pretty much everyone else. Or it's intentional choices by Amell to play his scenes with Laurel with more reserve or something. I say that because I don't think KC makes those kinds of inward acting choices.  Clearly mileage varies but that's what I"m left with.

[Password]

I think KC would handle humour very well. I hope she does get to make more funnies to be honest.

[apinknightmare]

It almost feels like she's just making excuses for why they have no chemistry.  Whatever. To me it doesn't matter why they don't have chemistry, they just don't. I tend to put it on KC because Amell has chemistry with pretty much everyone else. Or it's intentional choices by Amell to play his scenes with Laurel with more reserve or something. I say that because I don't think KC makes those kinds of inward acting choices.  Clearly mileage varies but that's what I"m left with.

 

The why doesn't matter to me, either. The more reasons that can be given for not resurrecting the pile of suck that was Oliver and Laurel's relationship, the better.

[catrox14]

I have no confidence that she will find the right kind of humor. She can do snark.  I can't see her doing light comedy at all. I mean she's certainly not funny in her con appearances.  Just my perception.

[Password]

Snark, light humour, whatever, as long as she makes more funnies.

[ban1o]

That's news to Susanna Thompson, Willa Holland, Caity Lotz.

I don't know if I'll get hate for this but I really don't think Caity Lotz is that great of an actress. As awesome as she is in action roles and such. I don't think she's any better than Kaity Cassidy. I think she fits the role they gave her though. 

Edited August 24, 2014 by ban1o

[catrox14]

I don't know if I'll get hate for this but I really don't think Caity Lotz is that great of an actress. As awesome as she is in action roles and such. I don't think she's any better than Kaity Cassidy. I think she fits the role they gave her though.

 

Lotz is not as strong as Thompson or Holland in the deeper emotional scenes. However, she is essentially playing 3 different Saras just like Amell is playing three different Olivers.  She can switch between island!Sara and present!Day Sara and they are quite different and when she is in Black Canary mode she carries herself differently, she speaks differently.  So for me that's pretty complex and that's why I put her in the same tier as Thompson and Holland. 

 

I think she does very well in her scenes with the Lance family and for me I think she and Blackthorne elevate those scenes. I did like the scene with Laurel and Sara when Laurel is tempted to drink. 

Edited August 24, 2014 by catrox14

[wonderwall]

I don't understand KC not being able to stand Stephen be shirtless but is okay with putting her naked upper body on full display in a sex scene in scribbler.

It just doesn't make sense?

[catrox14]

I dunno. I'm starting to wonder if maybe it's some kind of running joke between the actors.  And that would be fine, if they still had some measurable chemistry on screen.

[apinknightmare]

I don't understand KC not being able to stand Stephen be shirtless but is okay with putting her naked upper body on full display in a sex scene in scribbler.

It just doesn't make sense?

 

This is going to be my last comment on this particular subject, because honestly it makes me uncomfortable - it feels like strange version of slut shaming.

 

But guys, if she's not comfortable with Stephen having his shirt off or doing intimate scenes with him, what does it matter why? Those are her feelings, and she shouldn't be judged for appearing topless in a movie, or not appearing to be uncomfortable in another scene with another actor on another show/movie. It could have everything to do with personal dynamics and history that we'll never know about, and IMO it's inappropriate to speculate.

[Kymmi]

I don't know if I'll get hate for this but I really don't think Caity Lotz is that great of an actress. As awesome as she is in action roles and such. I don't think she's any better than Kaity Cassidy. I think she fits the role they gave her though. 

 

I didn't have an opinion one way or another until I saw an appearance Caity Lotz was at.  She surprised me at how bubbly she was.  How un-Sara like.  Even when Sara had the occasional light moment, she was very different.  I really liked Sara and CL.

[willpwr]

http://collider.com/katie-cassidy-arrow-interview-2/

 

That's a link to an interview KC did before the show aired, I think, not sure. It's about how she views her character and her relationship with Oliver.

 

ETA: I don't think it matters why she's uncomfortable, at least not to me but KC is the one that has brought up that she's an uncomfortable in interviews which is why I believe people are speculating, If she herself hadn't mentioned it, I don't think there would be such a discussion about it.

 

I agree about CL, actually most of them are very different from their characters.

Edited August 24, 2014 by willpwr

[catrox14]

IMO it's not inappropriate to speculate when it seems to clearly be affecting something in their on screen chemistry and then she comments later about how it's awkward because he's married with a child. I don't care if she does porn, that's not my issue. It's like you have a job, that job is acting and that job might include sex scenes. Figure out a way to make it work!

[catrox14]

e point, made her step up into that role of the wife to her father, taking care of him.  It’s a selfless act, to me, but at the same time, it’s the only way she knows how to function.  It makes her feel safe.  In the same breath, maybe it’s a selfish thing.  It’s the only way she knows how to operate.  Her father instilled so much integrity in her and a lot of morals and values, and she expects people who live up to that.  The people who do, she wants to help.  The people who don’t, she wants to take them down.  I think you’re going to see a lo

 

Well, that is kind of a weird way to view her character's relationship with her father. She can step up and be the caretaker of the family but IMO to think of the daughter is the wife....O_O.  I don't mean in a sexual way but if she's thinking that she is now the wife of the family...like I don't get that at all.  

 

Too bad the moralist Laurel felt blackmail is okay.  See to me, this tells me that even if the writers changed her character she never changed her acting to go with the character changes.

Edited August 24, 2014 by catrox14

[statsgirl]

moving my reply to the Laurel thread

[TanyaKay]

http://collider.com/katie-cassidy-arrow-interview-2/

 

That's a link to an interview KC did before the show aired, I think, not sure. It's about how she views her character and her relationship with Oliver.

Clueless about character in 2012, clueless about the character in 2014.

Edited August 25, 2014 by TanyaKay

[TanyaKay]

This is going to be my last comment on this particular subject, because honestly it makes me uncomfortable - it feels like strange version of slut shaming.

 

But guys, if she's not comfortable with Stephen having his shirt off or doing intimate scenes with him, what does it matter why? Those are her feelings, and she shouldn't be judged for appearing topless in a movie, or not appearing to be uncomfortable in another scene with another actor on another show/movie. It could have everything to do with personal dynamics and history that we'll never know about, and IMO it's inappropriate to speculate.

 

As I was the first person who referred to her topless scenes in some other film, and I put the disclaimer that I was NOT slut shaming her, I thought I should respond to this.

 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with you being comfortable with person A but not with person B, this is how human interactions work. However, people will think or speculate when an actor will give stupid excuses like this one. Doing sex scenes with you co actor is part of your job, esp when you take on the role of the love interest of the male lead. Instead of talking about it on multiple forums that you were uncomfortable and that it was horrible, talk to the actor/director/producers and try and resolve the issue, that's what adult professionals would do. I am sure she had no such issues when she was shooting, but when that scene was aired and just about everyone literally gagged at it, she came up with that absurd theory. It was a bad scene, Stephen discussed it only in terms of gag reel and no one blames Stephen for that being a horrible scene but Katie and her mega stupid claim about Stephen being married brings everyone back to the fact that KC is a hypocrite.

 

For as long as those interviews are here in cyber space, she will be ridiculed. Every time she would do a racy sex scene, people will bring it up and say that KC was a hypocrite. If only she had kept quiet, no one would've called her on it.

 

I absolutely adore Angelina Jolie who has done many such scenes but no one would EVER call her a hypocrite because she never acted like a prude or gave stupid excuses for anything.

[ban1o]

I didn't have an opinion one way or another until I saw an appearance Caity Lotz was at.  She surprised me at how bubbly she was.  How un-Sara like.  Even when Sara had the occasional light moment, she was very different.  I really liked Sara and CL.

mm I guess her character is  different than the actor real personality.  i just sometimes find her performance wooden and and her lines forced at times. 

 

I agree about CL, actually most of them are very different from their characters.

Agreed EBR seems the most like her character compared to the other actors. All the actors seem so happy and bubby and most of the characters on the show aren't like that lol. 

This is going to be my last comment on this particular subject, because honestly it makes me uncomfortable - it feels like strange version of slut shaming.

 

But guys, if she's not comfortable with Stephen having his shirt off or doing intimate scenes with him, what does it matter why? Those are her feelings, and she shouldn't be judged for appearing topless in a movie, or not appearing to be uncomfortable in another scene with another actor on another show/movie. It could have everything to do with personal dynamics and history that we'll never know about, and IMO it's inappropriate to speculate.

Haha I definitely agree with this.. I think Katie Cassidy hate is just too much at times lol.; She still does the intimate scenes with Stephen Amell so I don't see why it matters what she says in public. I don't think she's ever used her comments as an excuse for lack of chemistry. they were just things that she's mentioned in interviews. 

[wonderwall]

@apinknightmare, I hope you didn't misinterpret what I meant. I wasn't trying to slut shame KC. No, I was just trying to point out that there's this cognitive dissonance between what she says and what she does. It's just completely confusing to me because while KC talks about how it's embarrassing to see SA shirtless and have love scenes with him (which she knew what she was getting into when she took the part), she doesn't have a problem being shirtless herself nor does she have a problem with other people who are in SAs position (being a husband and father) like Chris Gorham. 

 

I guess I'm overanalyzing. And now I honestly don't see the point in talking about this. KC will do and say whatever she feels and nothing will change that 

[apinknightmare]

@apinknightmare, I hope you didn't misinterpret what I meant. I wasn't trying to slut shame KC. No, I was just trying to point out that there's this cognitive dissonance between what she says and what she does. It's just completely confusing to me because while KC talks about how it's embarrassing to see SA shirtless and have love scenes with him (which she knew what she was getting into when she took the part), she doesn't have a problem being shirtless herself nor does she have a problem with other people who are in SAs position (being a husband and father) like Chris Gorham. 

 

I guess I'm overanalyzing. And now I honestly don't see the point in talking about this. KC will do and say whatever she feels and nothing will change that 

 

I didn't think anyone was actively trying to slut shame her, no worries. :)

 

My thing is, she's open to criticism as far as her portrayal and interpretation of Laurel goes, because we have a sound basis for who/what her character is supposed to be, both from the source material and the interviews with the producers. What basis do we have for saying what her personal comfort level should be for any situation? None. Who has a right to tell any of us that we're wrong for not feeling comfortable doing something? Nobody. Comfort is a situational thing. Ideally, yeah, she'd be comfortable shooting any kind of scene with Stephen. But she's not, and that doesn't make her wrong or hypocritical for feeling comfortable with other people in other situations.

 

I think it was not smart of her to make that info public, but what's done is done. And so far it's working out to our advantage, since most of us don't seem to want to see Laurel in intimate scenes with Oliver. So, she doesn't want to do it, and we don't want to watch it. It's a win/win (at this point).

[wonderwall]

Basically KC should've never said she was uncomfortable with SA because she opened herself up to scrutiny at that point. While I understand that people are uncomfortable with certain people, it just rubbed me the wrong way when KC essentially blamed SA being married with a kid on their lack of chemistry. It was a false statement on her part. The least she could've done was leave it with her being uncomfortable doing love scenes with SA and not drag SAs family into their lack of connection on screen. 

[statsgirl]

I've been running across Tommy/Felicity fic quite a lot lately.  I think that realistically, once Laurel slept with Oliver again, any further relationship with Tommy would have ended up tanking because he wouldn't have been able to trust her not to run to Oliver if they had a fight.

 

But would Tommy and Felicity have worked as a couple?  Or is it a case of being too similar in terms of personality type?

[apinknightmare]

I've been running across Tommy/Felicity fic quite a lot lately.  I think that realistically, once Laurel slept with Oliver again, any further relationship with Tommy would have ended up tanking because he wouldn't have been able to trust her not to run to Oliver if they had a fight.

 

But would Tommy and Felicity have worked as a couple?  Or is it a case of being too similar in terms of personality type?

I think Tommy could've been a good verbal sparring partner (or whatever the producers called Ray Palmer) for Felicity, because he was good-natured and quick with a quip. I don't know how an actual relationship would've worked out between them though. I have difficulty picturing it for some reason.

[calliope1975]

I've also read a bunch of Felicity & Tommy fics recently. Overall, I think I like them better as friends. But good friends who both call Oliver on his crap. Like with Oliver, Felicity would be really good at getting Tommy to realize he's not an irresponsible kid anymore while Tommy would encourage Felicity to have more fun - probably with Oliver.

 

And now I'm sad all over again that Tommy is six feet under. Can't we get ghost Tommy to hang around the New!Foundry?  

Edited August 25, 2014 by calliope1975

[pootlus]

And now I'm sad all over again that Tommy is six feet under. Can't we get ghost Tommy to hang around the New!Foundry?

If TPTB had any sense they'd be kicking themselves that they killed off Tommy instead of Laurel at the end of S1. Mind you they were probably still hopeful of resurrecting Laurel/Oliver at that stage.

After the suspicions about Tommy going dark many of us had in S1 it'd be fascinating to see Tommy as the good guy vs Thea as the (presumed) bad guy especially if they make him a much better brother than Oliver (which is, let's face it, not hard).

[Genki]

The thing about Tommy was I thought he had WAY more chemistry with Thea than Laurel, so I couldn't even buy into his relationship for Laurel fully (Though I did appreciate it keeping her away form Oliver). Willa really sold Thea crushing on Tommy, and how sad she was he was talking about Laurel.

 

Of course hindsight is incesty. But I agree it would have been great to see the half-sibling reveal with an alive Tommy. Even though I understand why they killed off the character (and don't necessarily disagree with the reasoning), if they had kept Tommy and killed off Laurel….the possibilities. 

 

Lance could gain back a daughter (Sarah) but at the cost of another.

Oliver could still instigate his no killing mantra

Tommy could have the alcohol related "crucible", plus he had a lot of reasons to drink (His father, Laurel, Oliver, Thea)

Thea and Tommy as siblings

 

hmmm….I wonder if I could find a fanfic

 

I hope we see Flashback Tommy interact with more people than just Malcolm in episode 2(?)

 

[pootlus]

Yeah it's ironic that Laurel could have done far more for the other characters by her absence than she does with her presence. I like your list Genki.

[Lisin]

OK gang, this topic has gone a little bit off the rails, lets please keep it to talking about the relationships on the show. We've got a behind the scenes topic and an interview topic to analyze what people are saying in interviews and on twitter, producers talk etc. This thread should be about the relationships on the show. 

[TanyaKay]

The thing about Tommy was I thought he had WAY more chemistry with Thea than Laurel, so I couldn't even buy into his relationship for Laurel fully (Though I did appreciate it keeping her away form Oliver). Willa really sold Thea crushing on Tommy, and how sad she was he was talking about Laurel.

 

Of course hindsight is incesty. But I agree it would have been great to see the half-sibling reveal with an alive Tommy. Even though I understand why they killed off the character (and don't necessarily disagree with the reasoning), if they had kept Tommy and killed off Laurel….the possibilities. 

 

Lance could gain back a daughter (Sarah) but at the cost of another.

Oliver could still instigate his no killing mantra

Tommy could have the alcohol related "crucible", plus he had a lot of reasons to drink (His father, Laurel, Oliver, Thea)

Thea and Tommy as siblings

 

hmmm….I wonder if I could find a fanfic

 

I hope we see Flashback Tommy interact with more people than just Malcolm in episode 2(?)

 

Thea and Tommy were 'the couple' for me in first season before the writers started hinting at Felicity & Oliver and I still have not forgiven the writers for making them siblings.

Genki, the list of possibilities of heartaches and relationships you have mentioned would've made for far richer and believable story line than what we have witnessed in season 2.

[Genki]

 

Thea and Tommy were 'the couple' for me in first season before the writers started hinting at Felicity & Oliver and I still have not forgiven the writers for making them siblings.

 

I console myself with the thought that the whole Thea/Malcolm situation seems interesting…and I'm reading Sins for the Au feels.

[statsgirl]

As much as I don't like Laurel, I have to give her that she was good for Tommy back in s1. He needed a strong person to both give him a kick in the pants and believe in him and she did that.  I still feel sad that the EPs felt it was more important to keep Laurel on the show and they sacrificed Tommy for Oliver's motivation.  I think it would have been interesting for Tommy to think that Oliver killed Malcolm and run Merlyn Global, all the while with Malcolm pulling strings behind the scenes.

 

Thea is much too young for Tommy (emotionally, not chronologically) but it would have been nice to see them get together in a few years. Hey, maybe Rebecca cheated on Malcolm and Tommy wasn't really his son, that's why he could never live up to Malcolm's ruthlessness.

[Password]

It was a (un)pleasant surprise when Tommy died. He could've easily gone down the hate Oliver Queen road but they allowed him to be the hero that set Oliver on his hero journey. I'm far more upset about The Queen dying than Tommy because his death had a purpose for Oliver's journey and his send off was great.

 

I'm not sad they let Tommy die instead of Laurel. The writers and EPs need to get their business together regarding Miss L Lance because as much as I don't understand her character, I feel sorry for her. When they need her to be tough, she's tough. When she needs to be damseled, she's damseled. All I yearn for is consistency. And in the race between Laurel and Sara concerning Oliver, I have no quelms about my dislike of Sara. Frankly it put a damper on everything Sara did from then onwards. The only thing I didn't like was Sara hopping along on her merry way to join the murderers. That scene I couldn't understand, it made no sense.