Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[poetgirl925]

Wow, I've never seen that either. I also wasn't following all the spoilers and interviews at that time, so that's really interesting. It's hard not to think some of the story was planned and I never felt like Tommy/Laurel/Oliver was the stuff of epic romance, but I really thought they were still holding onto the idea of star crossed lovers at that time. They were also setting up Oliver/Felicity as a potential couple, but I didn't think that was really going anywhere serious in S2. Then again my reasons for thinking that were mostly due to the Lance sisters drama that popped up again early and mid-S2. Episode 6 was when I really thought the writers were acknowledging Oliver could go there, but my episode review comments at that time were very cautious because I wasn't sure. My comments about episode 7 were also cautious. If you frame it like they were ending L/O at the end of S1 and shifting the romantic focus then it starts making more sense.

If this was actually their plan all along, that Oliver/Sara rehash was unnecessary. Understandable from the characters' point of view, maybe, but still unnecessary. I never liked it but it was more because I hated that they dropped Oliver into the middle of sisters again. I always saw it as more than comfort but less than love, and yet Sara/Oliver were still written as more romantic in flashbacks and the present than we ever saw Oliver/Laurel. It seemed like creative retconning of their S1 premise, so I was confused and I guess it made me wary of investing even more in the idea of Oliver/Felicity.

[JJ928]

Someone on tumblr posted the Arrow pilot script. I read it, it did seem legit (but who really knows). There was much in that script that didn't make it on screen. There was a scene between Sara and Oliver on the yacht, we never got to see. In the scene, Sara was having doubts and feeling guilty, questioning what they were doing. She asked what if they turned out to be more than a fling, Oliver convinced her that it was okay...Laurel would never find out, and how would they know if there was something more between them, if they didn't test it out first.

 

Still not excusing their behavior because it's a terrible thing either way. However, I guess if it is a legit script then Sara did have some real feelings for Oliver. Oliver, just seems like he was leading her on. So I can see why it got cut, especially since he looks like such a douche (well a bigger one). 

 

http://www.zen134237.zen.co.uk/Arrow_1x01_-_Pilot.pdf

I'm guessing it's okay to post this in this thread, as it pertains to Sara/Oliver?

[dtissagirl]

I never believed that the EPs realized that the Laurel/Oliver pairing wasn't working that early on in the show and that they viewed the hook up at the end of 1X22 as an ending point for them. That might explain why someone thought Radioactive was a good song to play when a couple got together.

 

Whoa! Thanks for bringing that article up, @Orion -- I remember reading it way back in S1, but I had forgotten all about it. So it does make sense that the plans to nix Oliver/Laurel were set from S1.

 

I guess the difference was that in the hiatus between S1 and S2, there was still risk involved in marketing Oliver/Felicity as the main love story. Probably because they had to make sure people would root for them in S2 when they were actively giving them romantic beats in the story + maybe back then there was cause for fear of alienating the Laurel/Oliver fans part of the audience.

But this time around, that risk is being considered insignificant. Hence SDCC being the Felicity/Oliver love fest that it was.

[writersblock51]

@Orion, thanks for the link - I don't remember that article at all.

 

Wow.  I'm genuinely stunned at the openness of the show's long term plan (well, S2, at that point) for Oliver and his romantic relationships.  Given he dated Helena and McKenna in S1 on top of whatever was going on with Laurel  AND  with a long term view that involved Felicity, Oliver seemed to have been more of an emotional wreck (PSTD?) than I originally thought.  At least in terms of those relationships.

 

I'm also blown away at how openly MG is about acknowledging the chemistry between Oliver/Felicity and the actors involved, so early on. 

 

Didn't KC say last summer hiatus that Laurel and Oliver were soul mates?  Her comments - again - seem to fly in the face of what is on the screen AND being said by others on the show.

[Velocity23]

She said it around season 2 finale time, when she did bunch of interviews . Also at the Motor City Con after the finale. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by Velocity23

[writersblock51]

Ah. thanks.  She has no clue.

[Velocity23]

For me the question is did she see whats happening on the TV screen and actually asked the producers? Or is her mindset if they ever go there F will be just a fling. And that the endgame is still considered to be O/L because you know COMICS, the ones she didn't read yet! 

[Lisin]

OK gang, I'm going to reiterate myself once more, then I'll just be deleting offending posts. This topic is to talk about the relationships on the show, not about the fans of those relationships. I don't care what Lauriver fans are saying on twitter or tumblr, or what the Olicity fans think in general. Talk about the show, the relationships on the show, not the fans. This is the last time I'm going to say it. 

[KenyaJ]

Not new, but always nice to see: https://twitter.com/mguggenheim/status/495259036950867968

 

‏@stone_drunkrosh

@mguggenheim was #Olicity ever a plan from the beginning of #Arrow or did it was it a response to fans' approval as #Arrow progressed?

 

@mguggenheim

@stone_drunkrosh It was a reaction to the chemistry between Stephen and Emily.

 

[Guest]

I love all this talk about their chemistry! I love they are doing something with it too. There's nothing worse than watching a show where two characters have major chemistry and they don't do anything about it or they drag it out too long. It's gonna be fun watching them really acknowledge it now. 

[Password]

I've always thought Oliver and Felicity are an opportunity. It's great to see they realised it too.

[dtissagirl]

Love it that MG specifically mentions the chemistry, because no matter how subjective that can be for the viewers, ultimately, it doesn't matter if the audience sees it or not -- what matters is the showrunners seeing it, and doing something about it. I'm just super glad the Arrow TPTB saw it and then ran with it.

[Starfish35]

Random thought for the day - I wonder why Olicity became the popular ship name in the fandom rather than something like SmoaknArrow or SmoakQueen.

Not that I'm complaining. Just throwing it out there. What kind of ship names fandoms go with has always kind of fascinated me.

[Velocity23]

I would say Stephen. I just noticed he tweeted it on Valentines Day during Season 1. No wonder the name stuck with the fans. 

Edited August 1, 2014 by Velocity23

[TanyaKay]

I have a genuine questions for everyone here.

Many articles have suggested that Felicity has feelings for Oliver but she always thought that he was out of her league so she never pursued him and that Oliver only realized that he too have feelings for Felicity around the time of season 2 finale.

I saw the same show but I never got the feelings of inadequacy coming from Felicity. Yes, she made some innuendoes back in season one and looked at him while he was working out or hanging from the roof beams for shit and giggles (who can blame her?) but that never resurfaced in season 2. Probably because she became familiar with him prancing around in his sweaty shirtless glory.

In season 2, we saw a more confident Felicity who was not all hot and bothered around Oliver Queen. Her insecurities in episode 14 were more about her not being kick ass, both literally and figuratively, and had nothing to do with the affections of a man. She even mocked him and his frat boy ways in the BoP episode. Felicity was a warm and loving character and she showed that warmth to everyone - Diggle both in the Russia episode and then when he was down with Vertigo in ep 7 and when he stayed outside her house and she brought him hot cocoa. She was affectionate to Sara when she came back and then when she was being patched up by Oliver in ep 5 and then in ep 14 when she took a bullet for Sara. Felicity stayed up all night and looked over thousands of images when Thea went missing and she did not even know Thea personally. She was just as compassionate with Oliver when she told him that she is sorry that he had to kill a man for her or in ep 14 when she revealed Thea’s parentage or in episode 21 when she was crying for the loss of his mother (I am forgetting if she had a moment with Roy or not). The point is that Felicity was warm and loving to everyone (except Isabel Rochev) yet everyone says that she was so crushing on Oliver. I personally think that she was NOT crushing on Oliver, yes, there were tender feelings and her emotional scenes with Oliver always had perfect light and piano based musical score but I did not see her crushing.

On the other hand, I saw Oliver Queen crushing on Felicity Smoak – big time. He killed a man for her and said that there was not choice to make, listened to her advice many times, was genuinely ashamed when he was caught with Isabel coming out of his room in Russia, jealous of Barry when he was around or even when he was in coma and Felicity was visiting him, was proud of her when she hacked into Iron Heights and told her that and jumped to save her twice in ep 19 (first when a security guard pointed a gun at her and then the epic jump from stairs when Slade came to pay them a visit. He even opened up to Felicity in the penultimate episode when Diggle went to fetch Roy Harper and talked about failing all the dead people. The only other person he willingly opened up to in season 2 was John Diggle when they bonded over vodka shots.

The way I see it, we have had more evidence of Oliver falling for Felicity in season 2 than the other way around, and it pisses me off when writers/commenters say that Felicity is crushing on her hunky boss because that was so two seasons ago. Yes she did that in season 1 but we did not see that anywhere in season 2. Sometimes hot men crush over the cute girls with glasses, what is your take on all this?

[Password]

I thought Felicity had feelings for him but she saw it was never going to happen so just left it at that and went on with her life. She never pined over him, wasn't jealous of Sara (because no) but still cared deeply about him and that wouldn't change.

Oliver I thought took any and all feelings for Felicity, put them in a nice box, signed sealed delivered it to that back of his mind, never to be looked at or touched. Then when he said ILY, she told him she believed in him, not to give up, the box went *pop*. Now he's buggered because he can't close the box and he's now aware that she's more than a platonic friend in his life.

I actually don't really think Felicity ever had much of a crush on Oliver in season 1. She just liked his lovely body. For real.

[icandigit]

I think Felicity has a crush on Oliver. But, I don't think her thinking he wouldn't go for her necessarily means insecurity. But, that's me projecting because of my own feelings from a similar situation I was in. I liked a guy, I didn't think he would be into me because I wasn't his type. But, I think I'm great, just not like type of woman he would like.

 

I think they are both falling in love and trying to deal with  and fight that. But, I think Oliver maybe further along in acknowledging it or realizing what is happening with them. And I think Felicity really doesn't want to deal with it because she thinks he's just not that into her.I'll have to watch it some more, but I just took the finale as Oliver being forced to acknowledge something that was already happening. Like he could feel it in State v. Queen but kinda ignored it or put it in the back of his mind. I love the shipper theory that it happened while he was on landmine island during the hiatus.

 

I think Oliver is in deeper than Felicity at this point. Which is funny being that she was the one who was crushing on him first.

 

I wonder if this season they will deal with Felicity not talking about her family. It would be interesting if she isn't the only person that's kinda guarded in their relationship. But, I'm pretty sure it was just a throwaway line. My brain always makes connections that aren't there.

 

I think of it as the like/ crush continuum. She crushes on an Oliver she barely knows (because hott)but then starts liking him when they become friends.

Edited August 1, 2014 by icandigit

[dtissagirl]

What said, basically.

 

Whatever feelings they had in S1 were pretty superficial, especially Felicity. Sure, she thought he was super hot, and having no filter made that blatantly clear, but even after he brought her in to Team Arrow, I think they were still just learning to trust each other, and to be friends. I do believe sometime in early S2, deeper feelings started developing, but I don't think either Felicity or Oliver pined for one another? Felicity was in deep denial until the ILY, and Oliver had decided to never ever go there until the ILY. There may have been some jealousy on both sides [isabel, Barry], but I can't think of a single instance on the show where they were ~wishing for things that weren't~ with regards to one another.

[Guest]

I think Felicity has always been attracted to Oliver but as for stronger feelings, she probably thought they were never a possibility. Not because she was insecure or she thought he was out of her league but because she's been witness to Oliver sleeping with all these different women as well as professing to love Laurel, always choosing Laurel. So she just accepted that and moved on. I never saw her as having a schoolgirl crush or pining over him AT ALL and it bugs me when I see comments like that. Even when she told Oliver in s2 that he deserved better than Isabel, I never thought she was talking about herself. She just wanted him to be happy. Her feelings are very selfless in that way.

 

It's interesting though because while we've seen more of Felicity's physical attraction to Oliver, we've actually seen more of Oliver's emotional feelings for Felicity than vice versa which made it seem like Felicity was in denial longer than Oliver was.

[Password]

It's interesting though because while we've seen more of Felicity's physical attraction to Oliver, we've actually seen more of Oliver's emotional feelings for Felicity than vice versa which made it seem like Felicity was in denial longer than Oliver was.

It's actually something I really like about Oliver's feelings for her. Seriously, some of the outfits she wore at QC were devastating but he never responded in a sexual way. Whereas Felicity was blatant in her physical attraction to Oliver re Salmon Ladder "I kept that. Yeah, I liked watching you do that."

It's funny and adorable and makes it seem a lot more than temporary that Oliver hasn't reacted to her in the same way he reacts to all hot women.

Edited August 1, 2014 by ArrowLimbo

[Guest]

It's actually something I really like about Oliver's feelings for her. Seriously, some of the outfits she wore at QC were devastating but he never responded in a sexual way. Whereas Felicity was blatant in her physical attraction to Oliver re Salmon Ladder "I kept that. Yeah, I liked watching you do that."

It's funny and adorable and makes it seem a lot more than temporary that Oliver hasn't reacted to her in the same way he reacts to all hot women.

 

Me too. I love it so much! There could be a link there too. Felicity is unashamed of her attraction to Oliver so he's obviously very aware of that but maybe he's not so aware of how she feels about him. Maybe another reason he denied his feelings for so long or whatever was because he thought she was only attracted to him but could never love him? It certainly links to how Oliver feels like he doesn't deserve good things. Maybe he couldn't believe that she could ever love him and so he's been protecting himself in some way...

[dtissagirl]

I also find it interesting that Oliver slept with Isabel in part as a reaction to Felicity [+ Amell implied that Oliver had Felicity on his mind during sex, + "because the life that I lead" was about Felicity per Guggenheim], while Felicity asking Barry out had nothing to do with Oliver -- she liked him, and went for it. I love that.

[Password]

He never rises to the bait Felicity gives him. Maybe because he doesn't want to embarrass her, but he seems to be very amused by the rambles and innuendo. It would be interesting to see him respond to it...although that might blow our minds so we won't play with dynamite.

I also find it interesting that Oliver slept with Isabel in part as a reaction to Felicity [+ Amell implied that Oliver had Felicity on his mind during sex, + "because the life that I lead" was about Felicity per Guggenheim], while Felicity asking Barry out had nothing to do with Oliver -- she liked him, and went for it. I love that.

Yep she's her own woman, Miss Smoak is.

[statsgirl]

Gosh, I'd forgotten about that article. It's interesting reading it now, in hindsight after season 2.

 

 

"I think there’s a lot of really great moments between Oliver and Felicity in the final four episodes of the season. That’s really what people will respond to. There’s a scene that they share in Episode 22 where just the chemistry is just so palpable. I was actually just on set telling Stephen that you really feel there’s a lot of chemistry and heat between the two of them. So, the shippers are only going to get louder post-Episode 22."

It looks like the finale episodes are their time.  (Fingers crossed for s3.) Episode 1x22 was Darkness on the Edge of Town, and I can't even remember what Felicity did in that one, but I remember Oliver slept with Laurel. Wait, looking it up on imdb, that's the episode where Felicity has to get into the Merlyn Industries computer and there's the elevator shaft swinging scene.

 

I don't know what to think about these EPs any more.  Oliver sleeps with Laurel, but MG's talking about the Oliver/Felicity chemistry.

 

Thanks very much for the pilot script, JJ928.  I love that kind of stuff.

 

I think Oliver and Felicity both compartmentalized each other. For Felicity, he's hot and he brings her mysteries that she loves to solve, and she admires him because he wants to save people and do the right thing.  She grew to really care for him a person  but the idea of them together is "unthinkable" so she's not going to pine, she's happy for him when he finds a relationship with Sara as opposed to being manipulated by Isabel or pining for Laurel.

 

Oliver friend-zoned Felicity from early on, or rather SA played Oliver like he did..  When she appeared in the gold dress in The Dodger. there wasn't a "Wow, she's hot" from Oliver, there was more from Diggle, and when he says "You're not the only one who can re-boot my computer" I find zero sexual tension, which is pretty surprising given the words.  Gradually through the season he looked on her a more of a friend and a fun person he could spend uncomplicated time with from a person perspective (while he was dealing with the mess of emotions with his family and Helena and Laurel) but he was still fixated on Laurel as the prize if he could get to a place where he could get one.  I think he was aware in s2 that Felicity was a person he could care for but he was still focused on the mission and later on on Sara.  

 

I think it was the thought of losing Felicity to Slade that finally shocked him out of his mindset in the finale. 

Maybe it's the idea of losing her in the season 3 premier that causes him to push her away again.

[TanyaKay]

I also find it interesting that Oliver slept with Isabel in part as a reaction to Felicity [+ Amell implied that Oliver had Felicity on his mind during sex, + "because the life that I lead" was about Felicity per Guggenheim], while Felicity asking Barry out had nothing to do with Oliver -- she liked him, and went for it. I love that.

 

oh I loved that about Felicity, she liked a guy and totally asked him out. All power to Ms Smoak.

[Sunshine]

I hate the "give them what they need attitude" but it doesn't seem quite as arrogant if they have been planning Oliver and Felicity as the romantic pairing since S1.  I suppose they were trying to fulfil comic book canon by hooking up Oliver & Dinah Laurel Lance and also hooking up Arrow/Canary (Oliver/Sarah) even if  it was WTF within the story. 

[BkWurm1]

I think both Oliver and Felicity came to care deeply for the other fairly quickly,(Diggle included)  I'd say by the time they dragged him back from the Island, it was love, but not necessarily romantic love due to Oliver's box's and Felicity just not going there due to everything from the Laurel issue to his PTSD to his very focused mission to the very fact that they were a team. 

 

I think coming back to Starling and taking over the company opened up Oliver to being Oliver Queen in a way handing off the running of a night club so he had an excuse for his night activities couldn't.  He spent his days playing CEO and there at his side, was the only person who knew the real him.  Add in their very full nights and I think this brought both of them closer to each other. 

 

The first half of Season 2  had Oliver and Felicity very in tune to one another.  The trip to Russia I think was the first time either of them had to acknowledge to themselves that they felt something for the other that didn't fit as just friends and associates.  For Oliver, he had his because of the life I lead excuse/belief but Felicity's utter disappointment in him hurt and I think he had to then understand that part of him did feel like he'd betrayed those deeper feelings he didn't even want to acknowledge to himself.

 

For Felicity I think she was happily going along with Oliver as this very important person in her life that she was getting closer and closer to but I don't think she had stopped to put a label on what she was feeling or if she did, she would have said they were merely very close friends and I think she believed this and yet finding Isabel in Oliver's room hurt.  She quickly cut her knee jerk pain to it out of the conversation and focused on her disappointment at his foolishness and her sadness that he would keep himself so isolated but she know had to have some small awareness to what may have been an un formed hope.

 

Then in State vs. Queen, I think the box Oliver tried to place between him and Felicity crumpled. Instinct drove those arrows in to the Count.  There was no choice to make.  Back at the courthouse, he's visibly shaken over probably both his actions and the threat to Felicity.  I think he attempts to put her back in the box again, but it's a bad fit.  Meanwhile, Felicity is still certain Oliver is abiding by his "I can't be with someone I could care about" so anything she feels she sets aside. 

 

Barry shows up and Oliver realizes Felicity is going to attract other men.  He doesn't like it but he's determined to keep his distance so he tries to play a little bit of matchmaker.  The guy gets knocked into a coma and that is worse than when he was actually there.  It doesn't change anything though, except that when he suggests that Barry is dreaming about her, I swear it felt like Oliver was confessing that he was doing some dreaming of his own. 

 

Felicity liked Barry but Barry also called her on the unnamed thing between her and Oliver. She made denials but she also stopped denying she felt something in final conversation.  Still,  she has no intention of pushing those feelings nor does she believe that Oliver is in a place where he'd change his mind about his rule let alone for it to suddenly apply to her.  So she continues mostly clueless.

 

Then we run into the Moira problem which happens right around the time of the Sara hook up, closely followed by Mirakuru madness and Slade's reign of terror.  Who has time to analyze feelings?  Oliver is plenty distracted and his boxes are shoved to the side so he can concentrate on make a series of really bad choices.  Diggle knows there is something more feelings wise between the pair when he makes his comment in Time of Death and Felicity doesn't deny it, but she's not pining.  She can't stop caring a little more than is right but that is what it is, she keeps moving on.  Oliver accepts her worry and support as normal.

 

Was it in Deathstroke that a sidelined Felicity suddenly showed up with her "Do whatever it takes." speech?  That is a moment that I doubt either of them thought about in terms to their relationship but it IMO cut like a laser beam through all the clutter and chaos and in those seconds, they might as well have been alone in the lair.  She spoke, he listened.  She understood him when others could only second guess.  She supported him when he hadn't been able to support himself. 

 

More Slade madness happens.  Sara realizes she and Oliver have no future romantically.  Moira is killed.  Oliver falls apart.  Diggle and Felicity find him and he's ready to trade his life for those he loves.  Felicity isn't worrying about distinguishing her feelings whether she's in love with him or just loves him and is freaking out about him slipping away.  Oliver I think is in this moment more aware that his feelings for Felicity are something more than just friendship and loyalty.  She is part of the reason he is willing to die.  She is the one he is explaining himself to even though Diggle is right there too.  She's the one his body sways toward like he wanted to kiss her and it's her hand he doesn't want to let go even as he walks away. 

 

During the of Streets of Fire for the most part Felicity is too busy surviving to be thinking about  feelings, same for Oliver but we still had that tell tale moment when Oliver hands Dig his bow and despite his injured knee and the fact that Diggle already has her, insist on carrying her.  It's an instinctive reaction, one he doesn't question. 

 

I think all through the episode Felicity stays in survival mode.  She doesn't examine her feelings.  Her faith and belief in Oliver are unwavering no matter what, but for Oliver, I do believe that it is in that moment when he has all but given up and Felicity's strength is what keeps him fighting, I think that is the moment that he knows how much she really means to him.  "You are not alone." 

 

Isn't this the one thing he has felt since he was trapped on that island?  He comes back but he can't be who everyone else wants him to be.  He has partners that he trusts but he still believes he ultimately is responsible for everything.  He's lost all hope but she hasn't and she believes in him and her belief doesn't add to the weight of his burdens, it lightens it because he is not alone.  No questions.  No demands.  He has her faith and love and support and yes, in that moment I do think Oliver knows he loves her, that he is in love with her.

 

But he is not done fighting.  Desperation and a desire to be that man that Felicity wants and believes he can be pushes him to do the Unthinkable but if he hadn't IMO been fully aware of his feelings for Felicity, he wouldn't have made the connection that Slade had taken the wrong woman. 

 

They beat the big bad, they can breath again.  He's told her he loves her.  She knows it was a trap for Slade but he sold it.  She believed him for a moment.  And then she realized she had a mission.  No time to analyze anything.  But she has time after.  He really sold it. She really believed it.  That part of her that pushed that thought, that notion aside can't completely stop thinking about it.  She probably knows what she would have said had he not put the needle in her hand or maybe she's not sure or tells herself she's not sure.  

 

In the end, I think Oliver knows he's in love with her but its still a huge step and she matters.  He's not going to make a move lightly.  It has to be right.  So he waits but he doesn't forget.

 

Felicity is unsettled.  She knows she loves him but she won't ask herself if she's in love with him.  Part of her knows the answer but while they've just had a huge win, there are still so many pieces to pick up.  Oliver has just suffered two huge losses, three if she counts the break up with Sara (she doesn't count it)  Still, she's still there and he's still there and they are still partners.  There will be time to unravel this mystery in the future.  She tries to go on like nothing happened but she hates mysteries.  She throws herself into the tasks of rebuilding but at night, when she can't sleep she remembers.  She wonders.  She dreams. 

 

That's what I saw.  That's where I think they are now.

[statsgirl]

BkWurm1, that's a wonderful summation. (I agree completely.)

[BkWurm1]

BkWurm1, that's a wonderful summation. (I agree completely.)

Thanks.  I've been pondering my answer ever since someone asked when or if Oliver and Felicity had fallen in love.  Not a simple answer.  :D

in July of 2013. At that point it seemed like they were still considering them the show OTP.

 

I guess that is why I'm not banking on the Laurel ship to have completely sailed but I do feel confident that Olicity has a real chance.  It will probably depend on all the things that any romantic pairing in a show depend on.  Show runners, writers, contracts, renewal stunts. Still, a real chance is better than being told I'm deluded and imagining everything. 

[Starfish35]

At this point yes, absolutely I think Lauriver's been tabled for the indefinite future (if Stephen Amell gets his way, probably forever - lol). I'm just not quite convinced that decision was made as far back as during season one. I can see why people might think that - it's just that the fact that last summer they were still talking about Oliver and Laurel as a couple that would eventually end up together makes me think they hadn't given up on it yet at that point.

[Sunshine]

I think even if they go with Olicity as the romantic relationship there is a good possibility that THE relationship on the show will still be Arrow/Canary. If they can land KC as BC and the audience/media supports it I wouldn't be surprised if AK tried to take it romantic again. I just don't think that is happening this season.

[DrSpaceman10]

I think even if they go with Olicity as the romantic relationship there is a good possibility that THE relationship on the show will still be Arrow/Canary. If they can land KC as BC and the audience/media supports it I wouldn't be surprised if AK tried to take it romantic again. I just don't think that is happening this season.

 

I don't think I'd watch it if they went back to Oliver/Laurel, because at that point I don't think I'd have any respect left for Oliver or Laurel. I don't mean to offend anyone who likes them, it's just my opinion :)

Edited August 2, 2014 by drspaceman10

[TanyaKay]

Was it in Deathstroke that a sidelined Felicity suddenly showed up with her "Do whatever it takes." speech?  That is a moment that I doubt either of them thought about in terms to their relationship but it IMO cut like a laser beam through all the clutter and chaos and in those seconds, they might as well have been alone in the lair.  She spoke, he listened.  She understood him when others could only second guess.  She supported him when he hadn't been able to support himself. 

 

I do agree, that scene came from nowhere. There she was, at the back, listening in to the argument between Sara, Diggle and Oliver and all of a sudden, she came forward and showed her support to Oliver - in her loud voice - and then no one said a word. That was the moment Sara realized that Felicity has that place in Oliver's life that no other woman can take. I really like that moment because it was not really romantic and very subtle yet very powerful. According to my sister, I was watching that scene with my shipper glasses on but honestly, I don't care. I was quite happy in my little bubble.

[TanyaKay]

That Laurel Oliver arc was not even touched upon once during this season, except for that line "I have loved you half my life" which was in the middle of a major dressing down that Oliver gave her. I think the EPs decided to sleep on it during season 2 and thought that they should check other options and have now decided to burry it for a foreseeable future. I have a feeling it is gonna stay that way.

[catrox14]

I don't really think it was out of the blue though. Felicity had seen Oliver react to many different situations and has seen him in pretty much every possible mindset so I thought it made sense

[statsgirl]

It was a line that needed to be said, and by the person who knew and understood Oliver best because he was never going to agree to not go after Thea.  That they gave it to Felicity is either pandering..... or foreshadowing.

[Password]

I don't think it was pandering. It was very profound that Felicity, whom is always very pro not killing and finding another way was now talking about doing whatever it takes. It made Deathstroke seem that much worse that the situation dictated someone who hates killing go OOC. I loved that scene because it scared the hell out of me. She went Moira Queen for 10 seconds.

Oliver needed someone to just say go. Even Diggle wanted to go with him as back up. Everyone was standing around being useless but it was Thea, Oliver wasn't going to do nothing. In that moment Sara was right to doubt it and want to think things through, but Oliver was not at a think things through point. He needed to act. Felicity just gave him the permission.

[hogwash]

Oliver needed someone to just say go. Even Diggle wanted to go with him as back up. Everyone was standing around being useless but it was Thea, Oliver wasn't going to do nothing. In that moment Sara was right to doubt it and want to think things through, but Oliver was not at a think things through point. He needed to act. Felicity just gave him the permission.

 

Diggle could have been the one to say it but Oliver just seemed to want to go, do what he needed to do, and damn the consequences. I couldn't see Dig agreeing to that even though he's seen Oliver do just it time and time again (and nearly die in the process). Sara wouldn't have worked either. She's had very similar experiences (I'm assuming the LOA is roughly equivalent to whatever the hell Oliver went through), but she doesn't seem to know well enough to know when Oliver is done being kept in check. After she popped back in Starling City, I would have pegged her as the character in the show who knew Oliver best since she's familiar with the pre-island/Island/Arrow Oliver. But the timeline we got in s02 doesn't really support that. They couldn't have spent more than three weeks(?) together on the island/freighter/whatever before she drowned again. At that point, they were both only on the 2nd year of their "hellish journey" and Oliver was nowhere close to the s01 psycho vigilante or s02 "something else" he was/is in Starling City.

 

So who's left? Felicity. She's tried to stop him before when it comes to these things. She's seen Diggle try to talk sense into him too. It usually doesn't work when he's like that. Sara hasn't been around long enough to know that side of Oliver. Diggle still tries to talk it out and can be just as stubborn as Oliver. Even if it was partly for shipping reasons, it does fit that Felicity--even by virtue of being the non ass-kicking person in the room--would be the one to say go for it, who are we to stop you? They're a weirdly fatalistic pair (I guess it goes with the territory but it's still kind of weird...)

Edited August 2, 2014 by hogwash

[foreverevolving]

Radioactive was such a weird song to put on a love scene though that it didn't feel like this was a love scene I should have been waiting for. It felt wrong, which it was because Tommy was watching and Oliver was being the worst kind of friend ever. Don't they sing something about an apocalypse?!!! Weird song choice IMO.

Funny thing is.. according to interview by the band the song is actually is positive song about renewal or something of that sort.

 

"” ‘Radioactive,’ to me, it’s very masculine, powerful-sounding song, and the lyrics behind it, there’s a lot of personal story behind it, but generally speaking, it’s a song about having an awakening; kind of waking up one day and deciding to do something new, and see life in a fresh way,” Reynolds explained. “A lot of people hear it in a dark way, but, I think, without saying the word too many times, it’s empowering, and so we wanted to display that in a way that the listener wouldn’t see normally.”"

http://www.mtv.com/news/1698938/imagine-dragons-radioactive-video-set/

so yea if you use the band way of seeing it you can understand why they chose it. still the fact that the title is radioactive, is... odd.

 

I'm with @statsgirl, thanks for the find @JJ928

It's interesting to see how all the things that actually made me smile and cry and react to the characters in the episode made me do so while reading the pilot too (for example Thea seeing Oliver for the first time- tears down my face, Tommy's line about the T-shirt how hot Thea has gotten-ignoring what we know now- i giggled), while all the stuff that haven't have been changed or removed (Ivan, Oliver sleeping outside the house. except for the part with Tommy finding out from the TV and running down the hotel corridor, would have loved to have seen that- Colin would have nailed it!. tried really hard to not imagine KC as Laurel, couldn't (i'm a visual person once i have a character image in my head it doesn't go away) which dampened all the parts she was in- which in all honesty are beautifully written! i could feel the emotions from the words and if i squinted and tried to not imagine KC i was able to actually feel them- the pain, anger, desperation, so many contradicting emotions. i haven't read the entire script yet i just don't have the time right now so i stuck with the first act and a tad from the second.

would have loved to read the third episode script with Felicity in it!

Edited August 2, 2014 by foreverevolving

[Guest]

Funny thing is.. according to interview by the band the song is actually is positive song about renewal or something of that sort.

 

"” ‘Radioactive,’ to me, it’s very masculine, powerful-sounding song, and the lyrics behind it, there’s a lot of personal story behind it, but generally speaking, it’s a song about having an awakening; kind of waking up one day and deciding to do something new, and see life in a fresh way,” Reynolds explained. “A lot of people hear it in a dark way, but, I think, without saying the word too many times, it’s empowering, and so we wanted to display that in a way that the listener wouldn’t see normally.”"

http://www.mtv.com/news/1698938/imagine-dragons-radioactive-video-set/

so yea if you use the band way of seeing it you can understand why they chose it. still the fact that the title is radioactive, is... odd.

 

This is interesting! I still don't connect that song with a love scene, certainly not one with Laurel and Oliver while Tommy is watching broken hearted. I think Oliver's love scenes with Helena and McKenna were more appropriately scored if I remember correctly. Like there was something meaningful there, rather than an epic selfish mistake. 

[foreverevolving]

This is interesting! I still don't connect that song with a love scene, certainly not one with Laurel and Oliver while Tommy is watching broken hearted. I think Oliver's love scenes with Helena and McKenna were more appropriately scored if I remember correctly. Like there was something meaningful there, rather than an epic selfish mistake. 

I agree. personally when i read the song lyrics (what few of them there are) and than i read the interview i can't help but think: so, how is Oliver and laurel sleeping together is a new and fresh thing? where is the awakening there? they already knew they loved (in their own twisted way) each other.

being awakened, something being fresh that's usually reserved to something new happening. for example i could go with that description of the song and actually fit it to Oliver and Felicity (with the actual song!) if we want to be poetic: saying that the destruction- the apocalypse- that Slade created was radioactive, and in the process of it Oliver and Felicity both had an awakening to what their feelings towards each other really are- it is something new because it didn't really exist or was acknowledged prior (unlike the Oliver and Laurel feelings). Now in the aftermath of it they have to decide what to do: confront those feelings and create a new world for themselves from the rubbles of the old one or ignore and remain in the same static "apocalyptic world".

 

once again i feel as if i am making zero sense..

[Nanrad]

I know some of what I'm about to mention has been discussed to death, but I made a post a few weeks ago on imdb that wasn't well received on there, that may be appreciated here:

 

 

Comic book canon aside (because I haven't read it), I'm baffled by this relationship.

The series has said that Tommy, Laurel, and Oliver became friends around the age 14. My question is: were they casual friends or very close friends? If they were casual friends, it could explain a lot of Laurel's behavior. If they were very close friends, which the series heavily implies, that doesn't make any sense. Not one of them behaved like they had an established friendship prior to Oliver and Laurel dating (or expressed any commentary that would highlight this fact). Even when Oliver first got off the island, Tommy behaved like Oliver was his friend and Laurel was simply the ex-girlfriend (that he hooked up with).

IMO, the judgmental (not a criticism, but rather an observation) aspect of Laurel concerning Oliver and Tommy showed that the series played Laurel as the ex-girlfriend who disapproved of Oliver's best friend Tommy and not a friend or former one. Because even if Laurel disapproved of how Tommy and Oliver behaved, her distaste would express itself in other ways or, at least, familiarity. Laurel's distaste is expressed in a classical ex-girlfriend behavior. Also, if Laurel has known them since she was 14, Tommy wouldn't have had to prove himself to her and she would already know that Oliver cared about her, but had a crappy way of showing it. Everything that she ever accused them of or expressed dislike for, should have already been known rather than treated as something new or just now discovered. As friends, they would've already had fights about this on a few occasions.

So, the series has screwed up on the friendship angle, disastrously, might I add. If they really wanted me (and other viewers) to buy the relationship, there should've been better flashbacks or commentary on their relationship. You have super serious Laurel who wants to become a lawyer to fight for the little people and be in a committed relationship, and then you have frat boy Oliver who is afraid of commitment and constantly drops out of school. I know opposites attract, but did anyone honestly expect that to work if Oliver had never gotten into a boating accident?

And did Laurel know him better as her boyfriend than she did as a friend? I don't know. Her friendship and, later, relationship doesn't make a lick of sense. Oliver partied all of the time, drank a lot, and got into trouble on quite a few occasions and this was the person that Laurel wanted to build her life with? I can understand why a part of her will always love him (okay, not literally, but since they were together for a while), but why would she still want to be with him before she realized that he had been reformed?

Oliver's lingering feelings made way more sense--he was a terrible boyfriend who had a great girlfriend. I think that he loved that she was sweet and adored him, but was he really in love with her? I don't believe the series gave the reason as to why he cheated on her the first time, but he still cheated. Why? Was he drunk? Was he afraid of commitment? Both? Then, when Laurel was pushing for them to move in together, he one ups himself and cheats with her sister. Sending Sara texts and invited her to sail with him and his father for a few days--ouch. His cheating wasn't even all that private this time around. So, when he was stuck on that island, I could understand him thinking about Laurel and how she was good to him and that he did her wrong. It makes sense. But, after a while, that didn't even make sense. For someone so in love with her, he didn't act like it before the accident. A few weeks/months obsessing over her is understandable, but anything longer than that doesn't make sense to me.

Back to Laurel, for starters, her calling the cops since Sara snuck out to get with Oliver was straight up grimy. Although the rumors of Oliver cheating on her with 10 other girls was false (I don't know), her reaction about Sara's concerns were petulant. I can't remember exactly what she said, but I remember thinking, "Really???" Then she goes on about how they've been together a year, will move in within the next year or something, and then get married. She seemed more concerned about her life going according to plan rather than saying something that displays her faith and trust in Oliver. Like, "I know Oliver behaves like a frat boy, but he's not a cheater (false)". Or, "It's easy to believe what people say about Oliver because of his antics, but he's a good guy and would never do that to me; I know him (false). If she had made a remark similar to those, it would have shown that she knew him and believed him as her boyfriend. Her actual response was groan worthy.

That is my issue with the relationship.

I know that they are going to end up back together, but her longing after him now doesn't connect with me as a viewer. I think it would have been better if she was played slightly darker and had a sounding board by a person where she spoke about how Sara and Oliver's deaths initially affected her. Now, that he's back from the dead, it makes her feel a variety of emotions that overwhelms her. Tommy would've been better used as someone she confided in and either slept with once and/or had sexual tension with not someone who she had been having sex with on and off with for years. I could see those two getting closer, especially since they were FRIENDS, but that doesn't necessarily mean romantically either.

Whenever Laurel did get upset with Oliver, I could see Tommy calming her down and eventually pointing out that a part of her may still resent Oliver because she still loves his despite what he did (and that he doesn't deserve her love). Over time, Tommy does start to pursue her, which Laurel constantly turns down, but she either has sex with him or literally goes to sleep with/makes out with him. Tommy gets fed up with it and calls her out saying that she'll fool around with him, but won't give him an actual chance, despite being possessive over him when it comes to other girls and other times acts like his girlfriend. But the true reason for her reluctance is because she views him as Oliver pre-boat accident He would then tell her that he has changed and she knows that just as Oliver has changed and Laurel refuses to see that as well.

When the Undertaking happens, Tommy has a feeling of where she will be, goes and saves her, and then dies.

In there series, it would have been better is Laurel was shown to be ambivalent about the Arrow all throughout the first season rather than her flip flopping for plot purposes. In prison, rather than Oliver going after her attacker in order to defend her--it should have been shown as him going too far. Her canon reaction doesn't make any sense. If Laurel wan't already on the fence about Arrow, him killing the prisoner when he didn't have to as well as a misconstrued scene of Oliver trying to save Tommy would perfectly explain her hatred of him in the second season.

During this time, she would both hate Arrow and have a drinking problem rather than developing one after her father called her out. If she were to develop a drug habit, it should have been due to her own injuries because, IMO, it just seemed thrown in to rev up the stakes--also, they could use some lessons in subtly. People noticing her high/constantly buzzed state should have been shown gradually, which would culminate in her making some major mistake.

Then, when Sara re-appeared, Laurel shouldn't have been upset because of the series reasons. That, again, didn't make sense to me. It should've been more of Sara making Laurel questions her decisions as an older sister and feelings as if she failed her little sister as well as the issues of Sara's action/"death" left Laurel to deal with it alone. Such as, her little sister/boyfriend cheating with one another, their mother leaving (that is not literally Sara's fault) which tore the family apart and their father developed a drinking problem, trust issues, etc.

Even though CL was a barely mediocre actor (I said this to appease the forum, I honestly don't care about CL's acting skills), I could buy that shared complicated history of Sara and Oliver, where as I couldn't with Laurel and Oliver, which is why I believe that KC should have played it darker (or the directors should've instructed her to).

The Oliver as Arrow revelation and telling him that she knew, she would been darker as well. She may have warmed up to Arrow by this time and knew of Oliver's torture, but this revelation has more questions than answers. It also forces her to understand that Oliver has changed.

I know that the show draws from the comic books and whatnot, but I feel as if Laurel's character would've been better received this way than how the show portrayed her. Also, it's not as if Thea wasn't made up, they changed Arrow's parents deaths and how/why he was in the boat accident/got on the island, they added stuff to the island, etc. So, my hypothetical situation isn't all that bad. I just find the friendship/relationship between Oliver/Laurel (and Tommy) as poorly constructed and problematic.

Thoughts?​

 

From the few pages I've read so far, it seems as if I share many of the same views of most of the people here, especially the darker angle and how Laurel doesn't really know Oliver like she insists.

Edited August 3, 2014 by Nanrad

[wonderwall]

@Nanrad, I actually agree with your analysis of Laurel Lance as well as her relationship with Oliver. To me, the writers didn't build a strong foundation to their relationship, nor to their friendship. You would think that the flashbacks to before the island the writers would iterate why Laurel and Oliver became friends then more than friends in the first place, but all I saw was this grand delusion Laurel made up when concerning Oliver and her being a petulant child by calling the cops on Sara. She always thought that he was this great person when he was not, and then was only satisfied when she learned that Oliver was the Arrow thus claiming that she knew him all along. That's actually quite false. She didn't know him because she doesn't truly understand the struggles Oliver went through to become a better person. And even after the island she could've taken the time to know what Oliver had been through (she's seen his scars) but she's either been super dismissive or 'in love', neither which indicates Laurel wanting to understand Oliver. 

 

Then you had this whole love triangle thing between Tommy/Laurel/Oliver that only made Oliver look like the bad guy, something of which we never want to see in our heroes. Oliver's feelings for Laurel are truly toxic in the sense that it hurts everyone around him. He hurt Diggle by putting Laurel first (always), he hurt Felicity by undermining team Arrow's partnership, he betrayed Tommy by telling him to go after Laurel only to sleep with her a few hours later. I understand that he went through hell and back and it's time to get what he wants, but that shouldn't be at the expense of his best friend's happiness. Something that he worked hard to build. Not only that, it made Laurel look like the bad guy too by getting in between two brothers and not really giving a damn about it. The whole thing was just a supreme mess that it just put me off from watching the show.Thankfully I came back by season 2 "Blind Spot" to see that the writers have finally moved on from Oliver/Laurel and have Oliver be fully committed to his team. 

 

I don't like concerning myself with 'should've's and 'what ifs', but even with a different backstory, I don't think I would be as enamored by Laurel/Oliver as I am with Oliver/Felicity because KC/SA just don't have the chemistry to build an epic romance. 

 

I would also like to state that there was an episode where Laurel hugged Oliver stating that he was important to her. This just struck me as all wrong. It was during this episode where Laurel found out that not only was Oliver the vigilante, but so was her sister. But who did Laurel go to, to comfort? She went to Oliver rather than her sister. This just goes to show just how terrible a sibling she is. Why did Laurel put Oliver before her sister? Is it because she still loves him? If so, then that doesn't paint Laurel in a positive light either. I honestly can't believe why someone would want to be with a person who was instrumental in tearing their family apart. 

 

While I wouldn't mind Laurel going down the dark path, I don't think that they will. Even when Laurel kills without it having any ramifications to her conscience, when Laurel blackmails, or when Laurel treats people as if they were below her, she will always be that 'good-doer'. Even if it doesn't make sense at all, there's a cognitive dissonance between what we see on screen and what KC and the EPs sell in their interviews which is also one of the reasons why I dislike her so much. 

 

Getting back to her relationships, I feel as though Laurel is terrible at relationships. She has this snotty, holier-than thou attitude that makes me want her to be far away from team arrow. When she entered the foundry to give Oliver a pep-talk it just felt all wrong because she immediately dismissed Felicity/Digg even though she knew they were Oliver's partners. It's not as though what Laurel had to say was a secret. This is why I don't think I could ever imagine her being friends with Felicity (even though that's what a lot of people want right now).

 

I just don't understand this character and I feel as though it's too late for me to like her because anything in season 3 would probably feel like the writers trying to retcon Laurel. I hope they don't forget all the crappy things she did, I hope they don't make Laurel look like a complete saint, and I sure as hell hope the writers don't forget what Laurel supposedly been through in season 2 (although I would argue that she didn't go through much considering she got everything back in the end without actually having to work for it, which made her 'recovery' all the less believable). In the end though, I feel like they will in order to make Laurel more likable. :/

Edited August 3, 2014 by wonderwall

[Nanrad]

wonder, I agree, it's too late for her. 

 

I had to keep telling people that it doesn't matter what the comics say because that isn't what is being portrayed on screen. There's only so much fan wanking a person can do before it's time to admit, "Yeah, this is a terrible character and the chemistry isn't there." People say that the term chemistry is arbitrary, but it isn't. Some people instantly label chemistry as romantic and sexual, but it's really the connection established between too actors/characters that makes whatever relationship they have believable. KC and SA don't have that--it really doesn't click for them and it's not something that can be taught either. 

 

in the series, too much crap has happened for them to date again. Some people are upset by SA's comment about them, but honestly, I don't see how anyone can argue as to why they should get back together and it being unrealistic for Laurel date Oliver--even dating him in the first place for that matter. 

Edited August 3, 2014 by Nanrad

[statsgirl]

Wow, the show really is making it clear that, at this point in time at least, Oliver and Laurel are done.

Diggle could have been the one to say it but Oliver just seemed to want to go, do what he needed to do, and damn the consequences. I couldn't see Dig agreeing to that even though he's seen Oliver do just it time and time again (and nearly die in the process). Sara wouldn't have worked either. She's had very similar experiences (I'm assuming the LOA is roughly equivalent to whatever the hell Oliver went through), but she doesn't seem to know well enough to know when Oliver is done being kept in check. [snip]

 

So who's left? Felicity. She's tried to stop him before when it comes to these things. She's seen Diggle try to talk sense into him too. It usually doesn't work when he's like that. Sara hasn't been around long enough to know that side of Oliver. Diggle still tries to talk it out and can be just as stubborn as Oliver. Even if it was partly for shipping reasons, it does fit that Felicity--even by virtue of being the non ass-kicking person in the room--would be the one to say go for it, who are we to stop you? They're a weirdly fatalistic pair (I guess it goes with the territory but it's still kind of weird...)

Lots of good reason why it was Felicity and not Diggle and Sara, even beyond the romantic beat which is the one that struck me the most.  If they were going to sell the manor scene, they had to start re-connecting Oliver and Felicity again after having dropped them for half a dozen episodes. . 

 

The series has said that Tommy, Laurel, and Oliver became friends around the age 14. My question is: were they casual friends or very close friends? If they were casual friends, it could explain a lot of Laurel's behavior. If they were very close friends, which the series heavily implies, that doesn't make any sense. Not one of them behaved like they had an established friendship prior to Oliver and Laurel dating (or expressed any commentary that would highlight this fact). Even when Oliver first got off the island, Tommy behaved like Oliver was his friend and Laurel was simply the ex-girlfriend (that he hooked up with).

Welcome to the board, Nanrad.

 

Laurel joined Oliver's school when she was 14 (grade nine makes sense).  It seems logical to think Oliver and Tommy were friends from long before -- their parents were business associates and hung out in the same millionaires club, I got the sense that Robert and Moira had known Tommy's mother and Tommy said that Robert Queen had been more of a father to him than his own, which I took to mean that when Tommy's mother died and Malcolm disappeared, Tommy started spending his time around the Queen manor and being included in the father/son type stuff that Robert did with Oliver.

 

The way I put it together, Oliver and Tommy were best friends from the time they were young.  Oliver was the leader and Tommy, an easy-going Type-B was his sideman.  Then at 14 Laurel enrolled in their school.  At that age, girls are interested in boys and relationships and Laurel, seeing Oliver as not only cute but rich and the alpha-male, targeted him.  Because Tommy was his friend, Tommy was included too but for Laurel it was always about her relationship, and her future, with Oliver.  After the boat went down, she may even have been a bit mad at Tommy for being alive while Oliver (and Sara) were dead and that's why she dismissed him as a potential partner.  Tommy was actually better for her, but he didn't have Oliver drive or his charisma, or his status.  Laurel was the ex-girlfriend rather than their friend.

 

 

But the true reason for her reluctance is because she views him as Oliver pre-boat accident

That's what she says. But since she was planning a future with pre-boat Oliver in spite of his womanizing, I think the real problem is that she doesn't think he's even as good as pre-boat Oliver.

 

 

Oliver's lingering feelings made way more sense--he was a terrible boyfriend who had a great girlfriend. [snip]

Back to Laurel, for starters, her calling the cops since Sara snuck out to get with Oliver was straight up grimy. Although the rumors of Oliver cheating on her with 10 other girls was false (I don't know), her reaction about Sara's concerns were petulant. I can't remember exactly what she said, but I remember thinking, "Really???" Then she goes on about how they've been together a year, will move in within the next year or something, and then get married. She seemed more concerned about her life going according to plan rather than saying something that displays her faith and trust in Oliver.

The 'tell' is that she was a great girlfriend; the 'show' not so much.  She set up a plan for her life with Oliver and refused to listen to everyone telling her she wasn't ready for it, from Oliver (sleeping around with other women and dropping out of every school he's enrolled in and partying all the time) to Quentin, who doesn't like him, to Sara who tries to tell her that Oliver is not ready to move in with her.

 

She later does the same thing to Tommy, decides that he should ask Oliver for a job at his club and even though she's right, she steamrolls over Tommy and humiliates him because she's so sure that she's right and he's not doing what she wants him to do.

 

Add to that, in her relationships with other people she's self-centered and manipulative.  She does it to her mother, to her father, and addiction or not, she's awful when Sara returns.

 

So while Oliver may have dreamed of her as the perfect girlfriend he done wrong, it seems like it was a pretty shallow relationship all round and they're both better out of it..

 

People say that the term chemistry is arbitrary, but it isn't. Some people instantly label chemistry as romantic and sexual, but it's really the connection established between too actors/characters that makes whatever relationship they have believable. 

Yes.  Maybe I could have bought Oliver/Laurel if Felicity hadn't turned up (more likely I wouldn't have been watching the show).  I might have gone with Oliver/Sara if I hadn't met Felicity first  But just like Stephen Amell/David Ramsey, as you say it's the connection between the character that sells the show.

[wonderwall]

I feel as though it would be even more hurtful to string along a group of fans, baiting them, telling them it may happen until the very end and not have it happen. I feel like the EPs/SA/DC/WB being honest about where the show is heading was the right thing to do. While people may complain now, they probably will accept it later on and either ignore Oliver/Felicity or maybe start to like it. One of the main reasons why people don't support Oliver/Felicity is because they believe they know that Oliver will break Felicity's heart thus ruining the dynamic between the trio or it will just end badly because they know Laurel/Oliver are endgame or Oliver/Felicity will be when the countdown for Felicity's death begin... If the EPs remove all doubt that this will happen in the future, the romantic plot points in the show will garner more support. 

 

I also feel as though most people watch this show for more than the romance. Romance on the show is actually a very small aspect of the show which leads me to believe that not a lot of people will stop watching it after SAs declaration that L/O and S/O will never be a thing again. And I'm pretty sure the people who only watch this show for the romance are in the minority. 

 

In the end, I feel like either way, the EPs will approach a fork in the road and will choose which way to take whether it's F/O, L/O, S/O, random chick/O, they just approached it rather quickly. 

 

And I don't think that there's a painless way to actually break the news :p Either way you look at it, there would be backlash. It was pretty much like ripping the bandaid off. Quick, painful at first but subsides rather quickly. 

 

PS. Your english is wonderful :)

Edited August 4, 2014 by wonderwall

[wonderwall]

I feel like the use of "there is one woman" and the exact scene where Oliver tells Laurel he is done chasing after her is to reiterate that they truly are over. Even I thought that there were still some residual feelings there between Oliver/Laurel but this makes me believe otherwise and I think that, that's the point of it. To make people understand that it was in that moment Oliver completely let go of Laurel.

 

But then there are comments like that Lois/Clark comparison and KC telling the world that Oliver/Laurel are soulmates and meant to be that leave me with a tiniest bit of doubt. Then again, the EPs haven't said a WORD about Laurel/Oliver after the finale so maybe it is over? Maybe they wanted SA to break the news because people like him more? IDK. 

 

I hope this isn't some HIMYM moment where Ted spends a few seasons letting go of Robyn only for us to find out that he was always in love with her and ends up with her. It went against everything they built in the show and I fear this will happen with Laurel/Oliver getting together. What can I say? HIMYM truly scarred me. I feel as though I've wasted 9 years watching that show... I'm still bitter about it tbqh

[wonderwall]

 I hope some of the Lauriver ? (oh man, I don't even know their ship name) are glad they aren't getting teased for something that won't have a payout. 

 

I think they go by Lauriver or Lauliver idk. But nope. None of them are happy. I guess I would be upset too, but I think time is needed in order for them to simmer down and actually see that this is a blessing in disguise. I love Oliver/Felicity right now, but I would much rather have them tell me it's not going to happen right off the bat instead of stringing me along.

 

With this will they/won't they and the whole 'love-triangle' between the two leading ladies/oliver out of the way, I feel as though they'll have more time with other characters of the show. Some people have a tendency to blame all the show's problems on Olicity and its shippers, like less screen time for other characters, ratings drops, uninspired arcs, etc. so I hope the writers tread lightly when it comes to Oliver/Felicity's relationship. 

[Morrigan2575]

Nope they changed the name again, it's Laullie now.

Edited August 4, 2014 by Morrigan2575

[Luckylyn]

I am also truamatized by HIMYM and worry that Oliver/Laurel are endgame  no matter how much it doesn't make sense with what I've seen on screen.  On the other hand, Dawson's Creek is an example that gives me hope that writers can change their minds when the original end game pair isn't working as they thought it would and a better option is available.  So I'm all torn between dread and hope.  I ship Oliver/Felicity but would not be angry if Oliver/Sara were end game as I can see the advantages to both pairings and am interested in all their stories.  Laurel on the other hand does not work for me with Oliver.  The chemistry isn't there and the story is problematic.  I don't udnerstand why she would want Oliver after the serial cheating including her sister.  I really prefered Laurel/Tommy. 

 

If they had to have Oliver involved with sisters that I agree with what another poster suggested.  Sara should have been Oliver's girlfriend and Laurel should have been the dsiapproving sister who figured out he was cheating.  Then when he returns from the island Laurel would see that he's a changed man but loyatly t to her sister keeps her from anything beyond friendship with Oliver while she can't help falling for the good man he is becoming.  Then,  Oliver/Sara hooking up in season 2 would be less icky and disrespectful to Laurel.