Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Password]

That's the thing isn't it? We just don't know what the writers are planning not just with the characters but their storylines.

Post episode 15 is like a black abyss no one knows anything about.

[dtissagirl]

Yeah, the "never to be seen again" part is totally wishful thinking, but the ARGUS witness protection would work for me because they can disappear this season, and show up sometime next season, or the next, when their narrative role can be something else other than cockblocking O/F.

 

The only way to get rid of them permanently is if DD kills William next episode. Then BM becomes irrelevant forever. But I truly don't think they'll do that.

Edited February 21, 2016 by dtissagirl

[apinknightmare]

I'm pro-ARGUS disappearance because if Samantha knows that William got kidnapped just for being Oliver's son, and is then given another reason why dangerous people would be after the kid, and then she and Oliver decide that Oliver could and should be involved in William's life as his actual father, they are all bigger idiots than I think they are, and the bar there is already set pretty low. 

[Morrigan2575]

Yeah, the "never to be seen again" part is totally wishful thinking, but the ARGUS witness protection would work for me because they can disappear this season, and show up sometime next season, or the next, when their narrative role can be something else other than cockblocking O/F.

The only way to get rid of them permanently is if DD kills William next episode. Then BM becomes irrelevant forever. But I truly don't think they'll do that.

You know i just always assumed witness protection meant never to be seen again...no really...Who's Chuck Cunningham again?

But I suppose they could go into Witness Protection and then pop up for some plot reason (enemy of Oliver cracked ARGUS database and found his secret). Then they go back into Witness Protection again new town/new name until the next plot related stupidity.

Ultimately it's a shame because, while i never wanted a kid on Arrow, there was potential for good character driven storylines involving Oliver/Son.

Edited February 21, 2016 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

I mean, the beauty of this being an ARGUS kind of WitSec would be that maybe ARGUS makes it mandatory forever and if you try to leave the system they'll get rid of you themselves? Real life WitSec is voluntary, and you can leave it -- although law enforcement agencies will discourage you, especially if the threat is on-going.

 

But technically, once DD is dealt with, and BM and kid aren't in immediate danger anymore, they could go back to their old lives.

 

I think this particular fatherhood storyline is forever tainted for me. I don't see myself ever warming up to William. But if somehow I had a say in how the kid stays on the show [not that I think he will, just imagining what ifs], it's Malcolm kidnapping him at the end of the season, and turning him into Arrow's version of Damian Wayne. Because then I would point and laugh forever and ever.

Edited February 21, 2016 by dtissagirl

[AyChihuahua]

I think I'm finding it hard to have any empathy for BM because the writers made her have such stupid demands to create this mess of a story in the first place. Though I guess that is part of the problem in that MG thinks the demands are entirely reasonable, whereas I think it was an awful way to introduce the character.

I get that her storyline is merely the mechanism being used to manufacture needless drama but I'm pretty sure they didn't want me to completely dislike her.

I hate her for way more than the dumb demand. I hated her before we met her this season bc hiding a kid's very existence from the other parent is utterly hideous behavior. Moira didn't threaten her life, and Ollie wouldn't have hurt the kid. So way before we knew she was a block I hated her, bc Ollie, who was a dumb douche but not a physical danger, had every right to know the kid existed. If she'd had an abortion it wouldn't have been his business, but once he was born Oliver had just as much right to parent him. At worst he would have been mostly absent while paying child support. Hundreds of thousands of harmless dumb douches have kids every year, both men and women, and all are entitled to KNOW the kid freaking exists, at LEAST.

 

Then they doubled down on her acting superior about him knocking her up, as if she wasn't right there with him, when she darn well knew he had a girlfriend. We have no reason to think he raped her, so she can stuff her superior attitude where the sun does not shine.

 

Then she let Oliver, who she basically accused of being scum (although she also said she knew he wasn't like that anymore, like what sense does that make?) hang out, alone, with the kid. So she's also a moron and a terrible mother. 

[tv echo]

Moved to 414 episode thread.

Edited February 22, 2016 by tv echo

[Lady Calypso]

I hate her for way more than the dumb demand. I hated her before we met her this season bc hiding a kid's very existence from the other parent is utterly hideous behavior. Moira didn't threaten her life, and Ollie wouldn't have hurt the kid. So way before we knew she was a block I hated her, bc Ollie, who was a dumb douche but not a physical danger, had every right to know the kid existed. If she'd had an abortion it wouldn't have been his business, but once he was born Oliver had just as much right to parent him. At worst he would have been mostly absent while paying child support. Hundreds of thousands of harmless dumb douches have kids every year, both men and women, and all are entitled to KNOW the kid freaking exists, at LEAST.

 

Then they doubled down on her acting superior about him knocking her up, as if she wasn't right there with him, when she darn well knew he had a girlfriend. We have no reason to think he raped her, so she can stuff her superior attitude where the sun does not shine.

 

Then she let Oliver, who she basically accused of being scum (although she also said she knew he wasn't like that anymore, like what sense does that make?) hang out, alone, with the kid. So she's also a moron and a terrible mother. 

 

Agreed. Here's the thing I have issue with her (on top of all these): why the hell would she keep a $1 million cheque? Let's assume for this moment that there wasn't an extra million that Moira gave her and the writers just happened to forget. If she had no intention to cash the cheque to seem like a good person, why did she keep it all these years? Because there's a chance she would have cashed it. Yes, it wouldn't have been easy to throw out the cheque or ripped it up, and I can get that she might have wanted the extra security for William if she needed it in the future, but wouldn't the cheque eventually be void after a certain amount of time? So since she kept it for ten years or whatever, wouldn't there be a point where she couldn't cash it in? 

 

She took the money. She chose to take it and listen to Moira and lie to Oliver about their baby. Yes, he was a douche and a player back then, but he also wasn't the worst guy in the world. She made her choice to lie about losing the baby and then running off. She took the money and then... didn't cash it? Because why? It would make her look better in people's eyes? No, it actually makes her look worse in my eyes. I don't think it makes her look any more noble or good if she had cashed the cheque right away. It just makes her look like a pompous, self-righteous prick. She says that she works hard for her money and she didn't need charity (or something....I refuse to rewatch the crossover, but I imagine that's what she said, or it was more than likely implied) but she kept the money. Not to show Oliver that she's a good person, because I assume she didn't expect to run into him again, but for security. 

 

Urg. I just have more issues about that damn cheque, and it only appeared for, like, ten seconds. Plus, everyone else has addressed all the other issues with this storyline. 

[apinknightmare]

I'm guessing she kept the check as proof that Moira paid her off in case Oliver found out about William, not because she ever planned on cashing it. Not sure what good it would do her legally, but I suppose in her mind it might not hurt to hang onto it.

[Carrie Ann]

I agree, except I still don't get why she wouldn't have shredded it at some point in the five years Oliver was presumed dead. Just one other thing about this storyline that the writers didn't bother thinking about--they needed the check, therefore she kept the check.

[apinknightmare]

I'd hang onto it as long as a member of the Queen family (especially Moira) was alive and kicking, but that's just me, haha.

[Carrie Ann]

Oh good point.

[kismet]

I can see her hanging on to the check & not cashing it... She did not want to be beholden to MQ, and cashing her check would indirectly put her at MQ's debt. But I would keep it as record of the fact that MQ bribed me. Otherwise it's her word versus MQ's. OQ will probably believe his mother before he believes her.

 

Honestly, the only thing I can really get mad at her for is keeping the secret from OQ once he came back, especially after MQ died. To me that is pretty hard to forgive. That being said, I know someone at work who has kept the identity of her kid's father from the father & the kid, so it's not that unheard of and this person is a pretty honest person otherwise.

 

I do think the ultimatum as it was set-up is pretty unforgivable. However, they needed the ultimatum to be so ridiculous & stringent. IRL, I could see the BM making some type of ultimatum, but not that one. Really the extreme ultimatum is the only thing that is holding together this story & OQ's defense. It's so badly written, it's not even funny. I can think of so many different ways they could have written the BM and her demands. But then they would have actually had to have attempted to write the story and that is not what they wanted to do. They wanted their connect the dots plot. So here we are OQ & BM are being thrown under this trainwreck of a storyline, and most likely FS will also be collateral damage to their inability to write a semi-thought out BM/Secret kid storyline.

[Guest]

I don't have an issue with Samantha holding onto the check either. It makes sense to have some kind of evidence just in case, especially when dealing with Moira Queen. 

 

My only problem is the demand for the lie. She's being completely unreasonable, not to mention the fact that Oliver has legal rights. There's just no need for the lie. Samantha could have been fine with Oliver's family and close friends knowing about William but not wanting him claimed publicly as Oliver's son. Totally understandable given the circumstances. Instead she just looks like a horrible person. 

 

If they wanted to use this baby mama crap as a reason to break up Olicity, they should have had Oliver decide to stay away from William because his life is too dangerous. He confides in Felicity but she objects to that because she was abandoned as a child and knows what it's like to grow up without a dad, so she thinks Oliver should have a relationship with his kid. BAM! In-character conflict without any need for a stupid lie and it also doesn't make the baby mama look like the worst person ever.

 

This show makes things so hard sometimes. LOL.

Edited February 23, 2016 by Guest

[kismet]

It's safe to say that if the point of the BMD was to help explore the characters and their relationships, there are hundreds of different & better ways to do it. We came up with some here. I'm sure other sites have come up with some good ones. I think that is the most disappointing part of this story. Because if they wanted to do it for DRAMA, it could have been done better. If they wanted to do it for a different take on OQ as a father, it could have been better. It they wanted to do it to bring new characters on to the show, again it could have been better. Even if the sole purpose was to break up O&F, they could have done it better.

 

Ultimately, there are so many better ways to do this story. It's so frustrating because it's so sloppy & poorly designed that really it's hard to watch. I don't have a guttural response to this story because it is breaking up a favorite couple of mine. I have a guttural reaction to it because it is crappy storytelling. I'm a big girl, I don't always need rainbows, sunshine & unicorns for my couples. But if you're going to make me endure a forced separation for plot purposes, at least do me and the audience the courtesy of writing a good plot.

[statsgirl]

I'd like to know why Samantha didn't cash the cheque.  (She could have taken a picture of it first before cashing it.)  Or at least tell me she cashed the first cheque and kept the second for proof.

 

Raising kids is expensive and it looked like she hadn't finished her college degree yet.  It doesn't make sense to me to live as a single parent on low wages when there was all that money that could have bought good housing and child care.  Moira even said she wanted her grandchild to live well.

[dtissagirl]

I'd like to know why Samantha didn't cash the cheque.  (She could have taken a picture of it first before cashing it.)  Or at least tell me she cashed the first cheque and kept the second for proof.

 

She didn't cash the check because Oliver needed to see that she didn't cash it.

 

They tried to use the check as the ~symbol of BM's good morals. Her not taking Moira's money was supposed to tell Oliver -- and us in the audience -- about what a self-sacrificing upstanding citizen BM is. And it was a plot point 100% for Oliver's sake. They didn't think it through what it means to BM and kid that she didn't take the money. 'Cause when we do, it makes her pretty dumb.

[spartan]

LAURIVER  ENDGAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Velocity23]

oh honey no.

[looptab]

C'mon.

[Midnight Lullaby]

LOL, that was funny.

[apinknightmare]

Katie, is that you?

[tarotx]

When I was in high school I was really into romance books. I read a few where the girl is paid to leave with her unborn baby and the girls never cash the check because they don't need the support of the man and family who aren't there for the child. It's a matter of principle. The child deserves nothing from the low lives who don't want the child. Mind you these girls usually have a skill so they can take care of the child themselves.  Some relied on their own parents until getting on their feet. The only issue I had with the check was we know there were going to be 2 checks. Though I guess if BM didn't cash the first one then Moira never sent out the second. 

 

I think the point of the BMD is they planned to bring her in to be a ship stall from the beginning. Oliver was always going to have a child out there since comic Oliver does. They had it out there so they used it for "drama" instead of thinking of a more fresh "right for the couple" story line. TPTB are stuck to their original plans with just little changes here and there. The fact that this drama was already used now with Olicity tells me tptb don't plan to return to Laureliver. At least until some random flash forward the last episode of the show 

Edited February 23, 2016 by tarotx

[wonderwall]

Based on the whole #TeamFelicity or #TeamOliver thing... 

 

I guess I'm in the minority because at the end of the day I love Oliver and I love Felicity as both individual characters which is why I can't be #TeamFelicity or #TeamOliver. I'm #TeamBoth/ #Teamstopthecontriveddrama.
 
I know a lot of people are Team Felicity because what Oliver did was wrong and that Felicity deserves better than Oliver lying to her. And I agree with them. I understand that Oliver is going to hurt Felicity, I understand that this is going to be Oliver’s fault. Whatever Oliver's reasoning is, I appreciate that Oliver is still very emotionally stunted and that the writers aren't giving him a quick fix like they did with Laurel's alchoholism...

 

I’m team Both of them because I know at the end of the day, they make each other happy, that they make each other better people despite the lies, and they make each other, and if you take out the unnecessary DRAMAAA, they're actually a really great couple who fit together very well. 

 

In the end I still really love Oliver (which might make me the minority on this board right now :p) and I want him to grow as a person and learn from his mistakes and being with Felicity or at least somehow being connected to her helps him do that. I also want Felicity to have that one person who loves her so unconditionally, someone who won’t walk away from her like her father did, someone who challenges her, who takes care of her too.

 

So yeah... I don't really want to fall into their trap of doing the whole #Team thing... lol It's what they want and no way in hell am I going to give them what they want. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by wonderwall

[jay741982]

Based on the whole #TeamFelicity or #TeamOliver thing... 

 

I guess I'm in the minority because at the end of the day I love Oliver and I love Felicity as both individual characters which is why I can't be #TeamFelicity or #TeamOliver. I'm #TeamBoth/ #Teamstopthecontriveddrama.

 

I know a lot of people are Team Felicity because what Oliver did was wrong and that Felicity deserves better than Oliver lying to her. And I agree with them. I understand that Oliver is going to hurt Felicity, I understand that this is going to be Oliver’s fault. Whatever Oliver's reasoning is, I appreciate that Oliver is still very emotionally stunted and that the writers aren't giving him a quick fix like they did with Laurel's alchoholism...

I’m team Both of them because I know at the end of the day, they make each other happy, that they make each other better people despite the lies, and they make each other, and if you take out the unnecessary DRAMAAA, they're actually a really great couple who fit together very well. 

In the end I still really love Oliver (which might make me the minority on this board right now :p) and I want him to grow as a person and learn from his mistakes and being with Felicity or at least somehow being connected to her helps him do that. I also want Felicity to have that one person who loves her so unconditionally, someone who won’t walk away from her like her father did, someone who challenges her, who takes care of her too.

 

So yeah... I don't really want to fall into their trap of doing the whole #Team thing... lol It's what they want and no way in hell am I going to give them what they want.

Very well said! I'm also #Teamstopthecontriveddrama. I don't hate Oliver and im still #TeamOlicity through and through. The writers could stop making him dumb but as said before Guggenstupid gets a boner from him being an idiot. I'm so tired of the regression because writers are too Damn lazy to come up with a story that makes sense. But we will keep getting it cause apparently the writers AND EBR and SA think it's the only way to keep Olicity interesting which is untrue

[kismet]

Well said @wonderwall :)

 

We should get shirts made that say #Teamstopthecontriveddrama. I'm definitely on both of their sides. This is not a situation where there needs to be teams.

[Midnight Lullaby]

If I got to the point where I hated Oliver I would quit the show, I doubt I could stand it. But I'm soooo annoyed at the writers right now. It's not even a matter of picking sides for me because if they let Oliver act like a normal human being this mess wouldn't exist or at least it wouldn't be so infuriating.

The problem is I feel the writers are "Team Oliver" because they really are "Team Themselves" and have to sell this mess so as a reaction I find myself on Felicity's side because I don't feel the people who hold the power in the show are.

Essentially it's not the characters' fault, so if the writers could stop making me be mad at Oliver it would be great, lol

Not that I need him to be perfect obviously, but not like this either.

[ComicFan777]

I think I really like what Oliver and Felicity is without the BMD.  However, with the interviews the last few days, it has clouded things for me.  At first, I thought that everything Oliver did pertaining to BMD was completely out of character and was clearly faulted to the writers.  Then, the SA interviews came and he supported this storyline and made questionable acting choices.  Even though the writers make the scripts, SA for the most part makes the Oliver Queen we see in Arrow.  If he believes in the storyline and the behaviors of Oliver Queen are justified and acts accordingly, it makes it difficult for me to separate the Oliver Queen we see during BMD, the Oliver Queen by the writers, and the Oliver Queen I thought he was through season 4a. 

 

It makes it difficult for me to say Oliver Queen is right for Felicity because of how much he hurt her.  She deserves not to be lied to.  She deserves loyalty.  She deserves so much more than what Oliver has chosen to give her compared to what he has actually given BM.  Of all things, Felicity values honesty and loyalty above everything and he couldn't give that to her, but he could give it to BM.  In SA's interpretation of OQ, he has barely portrayed any remorse/guilt and I get the impression he thinks that OQ is entirely justified in doing anything for his kid, no matter who it hurts. 

 

There is a fine line between the writing and the character and the actor - SA's acting choices shape OQ in a big way, so I am having difficulty believing in Oliver Queen right now.  As much as I love the Oliver Queen with Felicity in early season 4, I would want to stand by Felicity to support her in wanting to have the right guy who is willing to be honest with her and to be loyal to her.  It is difficult to root for Oliver right now...time may change that but with SA's acting choices combined with the writers, it is very hard for me to believe in Oliver Queen. 

 

I understand it is easier to ignore the BMD, but I am afraid Oliver would have made the very same choices/decisions in other high-stress situations that might come their way - which again would put Felicity in the same difficult spot of deciding whether her expectation for honesty and loyalty was more important or the love for a man that doesn't seem to value the same things as she does.  Is it really so much to ask of the person she loves for honesty and loyalty?  I would hope that it was a given, and not something that needed to be learned.

Edited February 24, 2016 by ComicFan777

[EmilyBettFan]

I'm Team Felicity and Team Oliver. I'm also Team Olicity because they're just so good together.

[lemotomato]

I'm with ComicFan777. SA's dismissive attitude about the lies and secret keeping in the latest round of interviews, along with MG's insistence that they were necessary for Oliver to see his kid makes him really unsympathetic to me.
 
I find myself defending Oliver a lot because for all his stupidity, SA finds a way to make me see his POV, even if I don't agree. But the way they decided to play out the BMD is just... too stupid for me to comprehend. And then they doubled down on it. So unless Oliver shows some genuine remorse and admits that what he did was wrong, I don't want him anywhere near Felicity. Because right now I get the impression that SA feels that his chance to play a dad onscreen is more important than the integrity of a relationship that they've been building for 4 seasons, and if that's the case, why the hell am I rooting for his character to be with the other character that I love?

Edited February 24, 2016 by lemotomato

[NumberCruncher]

I don't hate Oliver. I just think he's a dumbass. If the writers wouldn't constantly write him as such, I'd enjoy him way more. In this particular situation, however, I'm definitely on Felicity's side. That doesn't mean I hate Oliver though. I'm just waiting until the writers decide to return his brain.

[ComicFan777]

I don't hate Oliver. I just think he's a dumbass. If the writers wouldn't constantly write him as such, I'd enjoy him way more. In this particular situation, however, I'm definitely on Felicity's side. That doesn't mean I hate Oliver though. I'm just waiting until the writers decide to return his brain.

 

I think you will have wait until the end of the season for Oliver's new brain - Curtis is still busy building it!

[apinknightmare]

Because right now I get the impression that SA feels that his chance to play a dad onscreen is more important than the integrity of a relationship that they've been building for 4 seasons, and if that's the case, why the hell am I rooting for his character to be with the other character that I love?

 

But what exactly can he do about it? He doesn't write the show, and from what I can tell he didn't want the storyline to play out this way. It's not like he can tell an interviewer that the writers gave him a shit sandwich and he hated it. I think his taste is crap, but if there's something about this that excites him, then...good for him, I guess. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by apinknightmare

[ComicFan777]

But what exactly can he do about it? He doesn't write the show, and from what I can tell he didn't want the storyline to play out this way. It's not like he can tell an interviewer that the writers gave him a shit sandwich and he hated it. I think his taste is crap, but if there's something about this that excites him, then...good for him, I guess. 

 

SA can elevate the writing through his acting choices, even if the writing is ultimately bad (ie. boob cuddle, guilty looks scattered throughout for interpretation).  It's the little things that he is always known for that can show Oliver's layers of feelings - give it more depth and show how he feels really bad for hiding things from Felicity - that can be done outside of the writing.  We know that SA is good at the guilty face.  Guilt (non-verbal) would go a long way in really making Oliver more sympathetic and it doesn't need to be in the writing for him to show it in a few moments since 4x8. 

Edited February 24, 2016 by ComicFan777

[statsgirl]

[she has to figure out] whether or not she's willing to risk the fact that he's going to do it again. In her mind, I think she feels like he will always be put in a situation where she's going to have to be either digging for the truth or accepting the fact that she might not get it all, but knowing that he still loves her. What is worth more?

 

http://www.eonline.com/news/742761/arrow-s-emily-bett-rickards-talks-rough-waters-ahead-for-olicity-superheroes-need-therapy

( spoilery)

 

EBR's new interviews make me wonder if this is a facet of Oliver, that when pressed into a corner he lies and keeps secrets, that Felicity is going to have to accept in their relationship if she wants to have a relationship with him.  He's not perfect, and this is another part that isn't.

[dtissagirl]

I'm TeamMyEntertainmentIsMoreImportantThanAnyFictionalCharacter. When a storyline is good, I'm willing to let myself be affected by the characters' struggles in any way it's presented. They can wreck me, they can overjoy me, they can rip my heart out and stomp on it, they can make me giddy like a child, and I'll take it without reservations. It's all part of the package that I accepted when I started that story, the pain and the catharsis alike.

But if the writing is terribad, then my well being is more important than the characters. And the way I deal with my well being as a viewer being threatened by fiction is by not cutting any character any slack whatsoever. Because being frustrated by bad writing is not supposed to be part of my viewer enjoyment. So I'll trounce if I have to.

[kismet]

SA can elevate the writing through his acting choices, even if the writing is ultimately bad (ie. boob cuddle, guilty looks scattered throughout for interpretation).  It's the little things that he is always known for that can show Oliver's layers of feelings - give it more depth and show how he feels really bad for hiding things from Felicity - that can be done outside of the writing.  We know that SA is good at the guilty face.  Guilt (non-verbal) would go a long way in really making Oliver more sympathetic and it doesn't need to be in the writing for him to show it in a few moments since 4x8. 

Agree... that whole boob cuddle still is mind-boggling to me. If ever I was able to ask him a question about this storyline, that would be my question. WTF was that boob cuddle?? Because I understand just about every other choice but that one was pretty horrible & unexplainable.

 

I hope his guilt sad eyes face will be making an appearance. It basically lives large from eps 15-20, it should get it's own paycheck. I do hope that they manage to get in a verbal apology to FS. Perhaps the writers will try something new this year. But honestly, I would prefer his actions speak to atonement more than his words. His words have always been a little hollow for me and I'm usually on his defense squad.

[apinknightmare]

SA can elevate the writing through his acting choices, even if the writing is ultimately bad (ie. boob cuddle, guilty looks scattered throughout for interpretation).  It's the little things that he is always known for that can show Oliver's layers of feelings - give it more depth and show how he feels really bad for hiding things from Felicity - that can be done outside of the writing.  We know that SA is good at the guilty face.  Guilt (non-verbal) would go a long way in really making Oliver more sympathetic and it doesn't need to be in the writing for him to show it in a few moments since 4x8. 

 

Unless I misunderstood the OP's comment, my response was to her annoyance at SA liking this storyline despite what it's doing to Oliver/Oliver and Felicity, and saying so in interviews, and has nothing at all to do with his acting or acting choices. 

[lemotomato]

Unless I misunderstood the OP's comment, my response was to her annoyance at SA liking this storyline despite what it's doing to Oliver/Oliver and Felicity, and saying so in interviews, and has nothing at all to do with his acting or acting choices. 

To clarify, I do think that SA's feelings about this storyline influence his acting choices. We've joked a lot about his nOTP face, and for me, the way SA has portrayed Oliver handling the secrets and lies follows the same pattern. 

[ComicFan777]

Unless I misunderstood the OP's comment, my response was to her annoyance at SA liking this storyline despite what it's doing to Oliver/Oliver and Felicity, and saying so in interviews, and has nothing at all to do with his acting or acting choices. 

 

Maybe I am looking at this from the wrong angle and I am apologizing ahead of time if I am completely off here...but doesn't the actor's opinion about a storyline directly or indirectly affect their acting choices because of their interpretation of their character?  When SA voiced his opinion of Oliver's actions, it is a window to how we interpret Oliver's actions on-screen.  His opinions are reflected in his acting.  If SA was unhappy with the direction of the story, I think he could still probably downplay his enthusiasm for it without pissing off the writers.  For example, in this horrible storyline, I think many people expected SA to express some hint that Oliver's actions were not entirely justified or that Oliver would feel guilty in his interviews - but that never came across in anything he said, nor did it in the acting...maybe I am thinking about this in an entirely wrong way...so tired of the storyline.    

[Carrie Ann]

Responding in the Oliver thread because I don't think we're really talking about relationships anymore.

[apinknightmare]

Maybe I am looking at this from the wrong angle and I am apologizing ahead of time if I am completely off here...but doesn't the actor's opinion about a storyline directly or indirectly affect their acting choices because of their interpretation of their character?  When SA voiced his opinion of Oliver's actions, it is a window to how we interpret Oliver's actions on-screen.  His opinions are reflected in his acting.  If SA was unhappy with the direction of the story, I think he could still probably downplay his enthusiasm for it without pissing off the writers.  For example, in this horrible storyline, I think many people expected SA to express some hint that Oliver's actions were not entirely justified or that Oliver would feel guilty in his interviews - but that never came across in anything he said, nor did it in the acting...maybe I am thinking about this in an entirely wrong way...so tired of the storyline.    

 

Honestly, I can't say whether his feelings affect his acting choices, because I'm not on the set, and I don't know what the director asked him for, how many takes it took him to do it, or ultimately why a take was chosen for the story the editor is trying to tell. I'm not sure why he'd downplay his excitement over Oliver being a "dad" though - he truly does seem to be excited about that, and seems for the most part to be avoiding commenting on the less palatable part of the story. 

Edited February 25, 2016 by apinknightmare

[Luckylyn]

I thought Oliver's decision to send William away and not be a part of his life had implications for any desire Felicity might have to become a parent.  I was surprised that, that wasn't brought up by her during the break up.  He's basically sending a message that kids are off the table, and he's making that choice unilaterally without Felicity's input.

 

The writing for this storyline has really hurt my enjoyment of the show, and my affection for Oliver as a character.  The lies were so unnecessary.  Just having a child was enough for organic conflict about the danger of their lives and how that could impact William that the extra contrived drama is extremely frustrating.  I was amazed Felicity didn't toss the ring at Oliver at that scene where she realized just how many people including grudge having Malcolm knew about the child while she was kept ignorant. 

[Genki]

I thought Oliver's decision to send William away and not be a part of his life had implications for any desire Felicity might have to become a parent.  I was surprised that, that wasn't brought up by her during the break up.  He's basically sending a message that kids are off the table, and he's making that choice unilaterally without Felicity's input.

 

That is an interesting POV, which I hope is wrong, for my enjoyment of the show. In my mind, Oliver (the compartmentalising idiot) is usually trying to get past the immediate situation so, I don't think he has thought beyond the present, nor have the writers....

Edited February 25, 2016 by Genki

[lemotomato]

I love Olicity, and it'll always be my #1 'ship, but I see gifs like these (from this gifset) and I'm reminded of how much warmth and chemistry there was between SA and CL in their scenes together. I know that story-wise, Oliver and Sara were too much alike to make a dynamic TV couple, but if TPTB had decided to change course and made Caity Lotz/Sara BC, I would've been OK with GA/BC as the main romance of the show. She was such a better Canary in so many ways.

 

[Velocity23]

It just reminds me how Sara overtook the show in s2.

[Sakura12]

What I liked was that SA and CL were able to show the bond that Sara and Oliver had that went beyond friendship but wasn't romantic. They both realized that and knew that they would always love each other but were never in love with each other. 

 

Season 2 of Arrow is my favorite season of Arrow, all due to Oliver and Sara kicking ass together. Seeing them together in LoT reminded me of that again. They are the Green Arrow and Black Canary that are not together, have their own teams and will help out when the other needs it. 

[tarotx]

It just reminds me how Sara overtook the show in s2.

And there are people who say the same thing about Felicity now ;) I bet Sara and Felicity have comparable screen times. Sara was in the Flashbacks too but she wasn't in as many scenes in the present. It's want happens with the main love interest. 

[Velocity23]

Yeah it was very obvious that Felicity and Diggle were reduced to background. What they tried to sell as an Felicity episode at last second was actually look Sara can do anything. I still feel resentful.

[tarotx]

I missed the marketing for season 2 because I watched On Netflix but I guess it just depends on who are your favorite characters. I think we got some great Diggle and Felicity moments during the time that Oliver was with Sara.

Edited February 27, 2016 by tarotx