Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[Hiveminder]

That looks like one of those shiny USA shows. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

I'm LOLing hard over the whole "I'm no good for you" and all the time they're showing Laurel ... In that case, Oliver wasn't lying.

Did the WB have a promo template or something for "bad boys"? That video reminded me so much of one they did for "Moonlight" with Alex O'Loughlin, a vampire detective or private investigator. 

[MariaHill]

6 hours ago, lemotomato said:

"Arrow season 1 was great because it was all about comics and action! No stupid romance!"

Meanwhile, the CW made this trailer talking about what kind of a boyfriend Oliver Queen was:

OMG. 100% guaranteed I never would've tuned in to watch a single minute of this show if I'd ever seen that promo.  BLECH. ::Buffy shudder .gif::

[MaisyDaisy]

6 hours ago, lemotomato said:

"Arrow season 1 was great because it was all about comics and action! No stupid romance!"

Meanwhile, the CW made this trailer talking about what kind of a boyfriend Oliver Queen was:

Omg, he sounds like Oliver Queen King Douche. Hahahaha that was hilarious.

I don't know what KC had done to her face between season 1&2, I marathoned it so it was really evident to me, it's a shame, because she looked 100% better before. She is still really pretty, but in more of a generic CW attractive way, rather then the natural beauty she had before.

KC is no Nina, both LL and EG had some epically crap writing, but EG limped along dispite it because Nina is a great actress who actually had chemistry with her co stars.

Edited March 11, 2017 by MaisyDaisy

[kismet]

The sad part is I feel like that promo could be used to describe where I see the show has gone in s5. s5 is nailing that douche vibe. Sure LL & TM look out of place, but you could slip Dig & FS slinking in the background to update it. Maybe the writers watched this promo, instead of the previous 4 seasons when they started plotting out s5.

Not sure I would have tuned into that Arrow, which may explain why a lot of people are tuning out of Arrow, now that the tone of that promo feels most relevant to s5 out of all of the seasons.

Sidenote - KC/LL look amazing in those shots, I really don't know why she & the show changed her look. Her hair is amazing, I want it. Also TM/CD looks like he should wander over to Riverdale in those shots. Lastly, SA can not do voice overs - sadly I do not see an abundance of animated work coming his way.

[EmilyBettFan]

8 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

This always makes me laugh. You know Amell was not into this.

[LeighAn]

You can thank Stephen Amell that TVD part 2 never happened. David Rapport said that after they saw the pilot and his intensity they changed it up pretty quickly to a Amell Lead driven show fairly quickly. All the better for it.

Also wasn't Tommy suppose to be the Malcolm role as well? As in he was suppose to move into the Villan role at the end of season 1? I thought I read someone say that was the original intention.

[Morrigan2575]

1 hour ago, kismet said:

Sidenote - KC/LL look amazing in those shots, I really don't know why she & the show changed her look. Her hair is amazing, I want it. 

That was not the show. S1/4 the show controlled KC/LL hair, makeup, wardrobe. In S2/3 they gave KC control over LLs appearance to appease KC since she lost the LI role to EBR and they brought CL/Sara in as BC.  This was a minor move to keep her "happy" since KC had an interest in fashion. 

You can see the change, in S1/4 LL had similar styles to every other CW actress. It's one of the reasons I thought KC/LL was likely in the grave. What's funny is LL looked much better with the generic CW look vs KCs style ideas for LL.

Edited March 11, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Mellowyellow]

Omg now I want that douchey trailer but with our beloved perky blonde popping in to say something and him stopping in his tracks. Cue heart eyes galore!

[finnaire]

Honestly, I would have tuned in for (at least) the pilot of that show because, let's face it, SA is smoking hot.  Of course, I would have been expecting to see a show about a slick, modern 007/secret agent type (or a gigolo if this was Showtime) with bad CW dialogue as I had no clue what Arrow was about at the time. 

[theOAfc]

16 hours ago, EmilyBettFan said:

This always makes me laugh. You know Amell was not into this.

This type of promo is the epitome of CW. Damn,it wa awful. 

[catrox14]

Holy crap. I totally remember that promo. I remembered when I saw the show and then later the  promo and it's like um

..what show was that promo for. LOL

[BkWurm1]

27 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

Holy crap. I totally remember that promo. I remembered when I saw the show and then later the  promo and it's like um

..what show was that promo for. LOL

I remember the promo too.  If a friend hadn't asked me to check it out since he'd gone just to Netflix only (and wanted to know if it would be worth his time binging later) I would never have watched.  Or maybe I would have. That Salmon Lader remains compelling.

[insomniadreams88]

Oh wow that promo. I don't think I've ever seen it before. If I had, I think I would've been very confused watching the pilot. Especially if it had been the only promo I had seen for the show.

[statsgirl]

Yep, no way would I have tuned in for that.  Although maybe a bit since IntenseOliver is compelling.  But the Laurel stuff would have turned me off because it was so typical CW.  I did watch the pilot and then said "not for me" and didn't tune back in until I was channel surfing and saw the first Felicity scene in 1x03.  Then I checked on IMDB if she was in any further episodes.

Edited March 12, 2017 by statsgirl

[MaisyDaisy]

5 hours ago, statsgirl said:

Yep, no way would I have tuned in for that.  Although maybe a bit since IntenseOliver is compelling.  But the Laurel stuff would have turned me off because it was so typical CW.  I did watch the pilot and then said "not for me" and didn't tune back in until I was channel surfing and saw the first Felicity scene in 1x03.  Then I checked on IMDB if she was in any further episodes.

I brought season one on DVD because so many of my mutuals on tumblr were reblogging Felicity/Olicity stuff and I was intruiged.

I knew nothing about the show, the comics- anything, I had a compleatly open mind. I watched the first couple episodes and didn't really like it. I couldn't stand LL, I thought KC was shockingly bad, like she belonged in a cheesy daytime soap levels of bad.

i was encouraged to continue because apparently it got better with the OTA, so did and really liked it. I was so sure that LL would be killed off because she was just so terrible, and to me KC's acting stuck out like a sore thumb that I was sure she would be gone. I was disappointed and confused to hear she would be in season 2. I had no idea about comic canon at that point.

Season two had just finished, but I just couldn't handle more Lauriver so wasn't going to watch, but was told they backed right off it, so was convinced to watched, started lowkey shipping Olicity while side eying Oliver because Isobel (it was about the disloyalty towards friends for me) and the Lance Family dinner gate crash really made him look like a tone deaf douche to me.

But I devoured episodes from season 2 onward until the BMD, then watched sporadically.

Edited March 12, 2017 by MaisyDaisy

[Mellowyellow]

Bahahahahahaha

https://www.moviefone.com/photos/every-iconic-cw-romance-ranked-from-meh-to-swoon/#slide=4713514

Oliver and Laurel at number 46 behind Max and Lorelai of all couples!!!!!

Amuses me so much that this was the epic ship CW was hoping to sell!

[tv echo]

^^^ Oliver & Felicity are #4 on that list...
https://www.moviefone.com/photos/every-iconic-cw-romance-ranked-from-meh-to-swoon/#slide=4713538 

Barry & Iris are #19...
https://www.moviefone.com/photos/every-iconic-cw-romance-ranked-from-meh-to-swoon/#slide=4713508

Barry & Caitlin are #23...
https://www.moviefone.com/photos/every-iconic-cw-romance-ranked-from-meh-to-swoon/#slide=4713524

Thea & Roy are #38...
https://www.moviefone.com/photos/every-iconic-cw-romance-ranked-from-meh-to-swoon/#slide=4713502

Edited March 24, 2017 by tv echo

[kismet]

Sorry, but Barry & Caitlin were never a couple. Besides a shipper's dream, the Flash has never sold Barry & Caitlin as romantic. Haven't seen the rest of the list, but it bums me out when ineligible couples make a couples' list. That being said, it is slightly funny that non-couples are beating out official couples.

[Chaser]

Shouldn't it be from Swoon to Meh because they are ranking Best to Worst?

[tv echo]

The list starts at the bottom, with # 52 (Rufus and Lisa Loeb from Gossip Girl) and works its way up to #1...

Every Iconic CW Romance, Ranked From Meh to Swoon
Posted March 23, 2017 at 4:05am by Rachel Horner
https://www.moviefone.com/photos/every-iconic-cw-romance-ranked-from-meh-to-swoon/

Edited March 24, 2017 by tv echo

[theOAfc]

3 hours ago, kismet said:

Sorry, but Barry & Caitlin were never a couple. Besides a shipper's dream, the Flash has never sold Barry & Caitlin as romantic.

They also have 0 chemistry imo.

[thegirlsleuth]

That moviefone article is great--the writer has strong opinions and is not afraid to share. I especially like her reasoning behind rejecting Oliver/Laurel:  "Plus, Felicity is his one true love."  My one quibble is that I would have rated Logan and Veronica higher.  Question for TVD/The Originals watchers:  Is Caroline a little black dress?  I've never watched either show, but she showed up the list four or five times. 

[catrox14]

Just now, thegirlsleuth said:

That moviefone article is great--the writer has strong opinions and is not afraid to share. I especially like her reasoning behind rejecting Oliver/Laurel:  "Plus, Felicity is his one true love."  My one quibble is that I would have rated Logan and Veronica higher.  Question for TVD/The Originals watchers:  Is Caroline a little black dress?  I've never watched either show, but she showed up the list four or five times. 

I had to laugh at some of her entries that were "romances". Maybe my definition of romance is different than hers. Like, no, I don't count a lying liar that lies and manipulates her mark into freeing the Devil (Sam and Ruby) and a mild flirtation that was never going to go anywhere no matter what (Dean and Jo) as romances.  So weird. LOL

[Morrigan2575]

13 minutes ago, thegirlsleuth said:

Question for TVD/The Originals watchers:  Is Caroline a little black dress?  I've never watched either show, but she showed up the list four or five times. 

Caroline had a lot of LI on TVD (Damon, Matt, Tyler, Klaus, and Stefan).

Edited March 24, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[Morrigan2575]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I had to laugh at some of her entries that were "romances". Maybe my definition of romance is different than hers. Like, no, I don't count a lying liar that lies and manipulates her mark into freeing the Devil (Sam and Ruby) and a mild flirtation that was never going to go anywhere no matter what (Dean and Jo) as romances.  So weird. LOL

Hilarious that the actual relationships Amelia and Lisa completely forgotten. 

In also disagree strongly on the write up for Chlollie and think it should have been ranked higher.

[lemotomato]

6 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Bahahahahahaha

https://www.moviefone.com/photos/every-iconic-cw-romance-ranked-from-meh-to-swoon/#slide=4713514

Oliver and Laurel at number 46 behind Max and Lorelai of all couples!!!!!

Amuses me so much that this was the epic ship CW was hoping to sell!

I like the photo they picked for Oliver and Laurel. (Nitpick: I'm irrationally annoyed she has her feet on the couch with her shoes on. Who does that? The bottom of shoes are gross.)

Edited March 24, 2017 by lemotomato

[BkWurm1]

Quote

The Green Arrow never was, could never be, a story about just Oliver Queen. It was always about the people who made him human, the people whose lives he touched for the better, and even if he’s lost sight of that now, those people are still there, ready to fight for him.

(Disclaimer:  This post will probably have most readers on this forum go "Duh!" but I've often tried to articulate why OTA remains special on other less receptive boards.)

The a quote is from one of the reviews over in the News thread and it struck me again why OTA is so much better than Current Team Arrow and why Thea and Roy and even Sara worked for me but never Laurel and not Curtis, Wild Dog or Tinah at this point.

Sure Team Arrow technically is just whoever is on the team but what makes OTA special isn't just that they came first or even that they know him better or that they have a deeper relationship, but because of what they give to Oliver personally to make him stronger.

Even more so than just Oliver and Diggle coming together as a team, it was the special alchemy of Diggle and Felicity as his support system that really IMO drove Oliver to become the better man.  They reached his heart and gave him strength and shaped him as a hero.  Made him the hero that he wasn't previously even trying to be.  And in turn, they became stronger and bolder and richer for knowing him.  

With WD, Curtis, and Evelyn before she betrayed them, they add muscle, skills, and new opinions to the team, all of which can be valuable, but they tax Oliver's spirit without lifting him up.  They might gain emotionally and in skill level with Oliver as their trainer and Oliver in turn does get back up, but they still are a responsibility without that reciprocal emotional element.  He gives to them as a mentor, but you can see how much they drain him even as he remains at a distance from them. 

It's the same thing I saw with Oliver and Laurel.  Even in season four when she stopped being a huge burden skills wise, she IMO never seemed to lighten Oliver's heart.  He always seemed guarded.  Like he couldn't relax in her presence.  Like she was a responsibility that he accepted and tried to utilize, but so often it was her making demands (treat me like an equal, validate my emotional needs, absolve me of my bad choices) and Oliver giving her what she needed without anything she could offer being something that made his load lighter.  

Roy was different than the noobs maybe just because of his side kick status.  Or maybe because he came with his connection to Thea, but there was a stronger bond between Oliver and Roy than has developed between him and any of the noobs.  I honestly can't imagine Curtis or Rene or Tinah, lol, trading in their freedom for Oliver's.  Even during the rocky parts of Oliver and Roy's relationship, he seemed to satisfy Oliver's desire to pass on what he knew instead of Oliver feeling like if he doesn't get everything perfect, everything is his fault.  Again, they weigh him down and the emotional connections are stunted.  They follow his lead, but I'm not sure any of them even like him as a real person. 

It's not about the skill set that the noobs bring that keeps them at B team status, but the emotional connections.  That's why Thea fit on the team so well.  She was his sister and so with that, yes, he always felt the burden of responsibility, but she also always had the short cut to his heart.  His humanity was so close to the surface around her.  That is the same kind of strength that he drew from Felicity and Diggle.  Sara, after all the trauma they'd shared, you believed the bonds between them even if they clashed often.  Still, her survival was a kind of proof that he didn't ruin everything when he got on that boat and remained a truth to hold on to.

I bump into posters that find nothing special about OTA (will argue that it doesn't even exist) but the reason they remain important and worthy of singling out is they still are the ones on the team that are most there for Oliver and not just the mission or what they can get out of it.   

Like I said, this post isn't revolutionary but before I always concentrated on the part that proved that  DIg and Felicity were OTA because they just came first and but now I'm doubling down on they are better for Oliver.  

Edited March 24, 2017 by BkWurm1

[GHScorpiosRule]

1 hour ago, BkWurm1 said:

(Disclaimer:  This post will probably have most readers on this forum go "Duh!" but I've often tried to articulate why OTA remains special on other less receptive boards.)

The a quote is from one of the reviews over in the News thread and it struck me again why OTA is so much better than Current Team Arrow and why Thea and Roy and even Sara worked for me but never Laurel and not Curtis, Wild Dog or Tinah at this point.

Sure Team Arrow technically is just whoever is on the team but what makes OTA special isn't just that they came first or even that they know him better or that they have a deeper relationship, but because of what they give to Oliver personally to make him stronger.

Even more so than just Oliver and Diggle coming together as a team, it was the special alchemy of Diggle and Felicity as his support system that really IMO drove Oliver to become the better man.  They reached his heart and gave him strength and shaped him as a hero.  Made him the hero that he wasn't previously even trying to be.  And in turn, they became stronger and bolder and richer for knowing him.  

With WD, Curtis, and Evelyn before she betrayed them, they add muscle, skills, and new opinions to the team, all of which can be valuable, but they tax Oliver's spirit without lifting him up.  They might gain emotionally and in skill level with Oliver as their trainer and Oliver in turn does get back up, but they still are a responsibility without that reciprocal emotional element.  He gives to them as a mentor, but you can see how much they drain him even as he remains at a distance from them. 

It's the same thing I saw with Oliver and Laurel.  Even in season four when she stopped being a huge burden skills wise, she IMO never seemed to lighten Oliver's heart.  He always seemed guarded.  Like he couldn't relax in her presence.  Like she was a responsibility that he accepted and tried to utilize, but so often it was her making demands (treat me like an equal, validate my emotional needs, absolve me of my bad choices) and Oliver giving her what she needed without anything she could offer being something that made his load lighter.  

Roy was different than the noobs maybe just because of his side kick status.  Or maybe because he came with his connection to Thea, but there was a stronger bond between Oliver and Roy than has developed between him and any of the noobs.  I honestly can't imagine Curtis or Rene or Tinah, lol, trading in their freedom for Oliver's.  Even during the rocky parts of Oliver and Roy's relationship, he seemed to satisfy Oliver's desire to pass on what he knew instead of Oliver feeling like if he doesn't get everything perfect, everything is his fault.  Again, they weigh him down and the emotional connections are stunted.  They follow his lead, but I'm not sure any of them even like him as a real person. 

It's not about the skill set that the noobs bring that keeps them at B team status, but the emotional connections.  That's why Thea fit on the team so well.  She was his sister and so with that, yes, he always felt the burden of responsibility, but she also always had the short cut to his heart.  His humanity was so close to the surface around her.  That is the same kind of strength that he drew from Felicity and Diggle.  Sara, after all the trauma they'd shared, you believed the bonds between them even if they clashed often.  Still, her survival was a kind of proof that he didn't ruin everything when he got on that boat and remained a truth to hold on to.

I bump into posters that find nothing special about OTA (will argue that it doesn't even exist) but the reason they remain important and worthy of singling out is they still are the ones on the team that are most there for Oliver and not just the mission or what they can get out of it.   

Like I said, this post isn't revolutionary but before I always concentrated on the part that proved that  DIg and Felicity were OTA because they just came first and but now I'm doubling down on they are better for Oliver.  

Hey @BkWurm1! In response to your post above, Well DUH!!!!????

But it bears repeating, every so often.

[BunsenBurner]

@BkWurm1 great post.

When William and then FS was brought up by AC I believe that OQ decided to admit to him liking to kill even if he no longer believed it. I don't really think he believes that any more but he wanted to get back and get everyone safe. I do think he is having trouble with his PTSD and all that AC brought up and that it did have an effect on him. However, he has come so far with getting better it won't take that long to get back to believing in his team again. It will take talking to Digg and Felicity and they will come up with a plan. Unless of course they, OTA, do this offscreen which the writers are prone to do.

I also wonder if it will be OQ/FS and JD/LD going to Lian Yu.

[kismet]

@BkWurm1 well DUH! Thanks for the post. Totally agree :)

[EmilyBettFan]

16 hours ago, Chaser said:

Shouldn't it be from Swoon to Meh because they are ranking Best to Worst?

Well the numbers are reversed. But they do start from meh to best.

[tv echo]

To be clear, I do not take stalking lightly in real life, but I can't help noting that Arrow seems to promote stalkerish behavior - so I thought about the last five seasons and came up with the following (no offense intended to any fans of these characters, blame the writing)...

ARROW'S GUIDE TO STALKING

Stalking 101: How Stalking for Business Can Produce Unexpected Dividends
by Ray Palmer

When I needed a "particular skill set" - yep, that's a Liam Neeson reference from Taken (what can I say? I'm a nerd). Ahem, as I was saying, when I needed a particular skill set possessed by a particular person in order to further a business objective of mine, I set out to acquire her services with determination and a carefully planned strategy. But what I didn't expect was to end up in a personal relationship with this person, especially not after losing my fiance a few years ago. It's no secret that I once dated Felicity Smoak, so I'm sure we can all agree that it was a win-win for me.

1. Before doing anything else, first make sure that the person has the expertise that you need. I first met Felicity by visiting her at her then current place of employment, a tech store, under the guise of a customer. I wanted to scout her out first, to see if she might welcome a new job opportunity and also to see if her IT knowledge was as good as reputed. No on the first, but yes on the second.

2. Next, if you misstep and alienate the person, just try again. My acquisition of Queen Consolidated was helped along, in part, by using a hacking tip that Felicity provided to me when she thought I was a store customer. So, as a friend of Oliver Queen, she wasn't exactly feeling friendly towards me. But I pinged her phone's GPS to locate her and approached her again. This time, she accused me of "stalking" her. Ha, ha. She was still not receptive to my job offer.

3. Here's where determination comes in... I sent her flowers. I sent texts and emails. I called her repeatedly. Still no go.

4. If determination doesn't work, then resort to strategy. There are always multiple ways to get around an obstacle. Felicity still refused to work for me - so I bought the tech store that employed her. By this time, I had noticed that she was struggling with a personal problem. So when she became angry about becoming my employee over her objection, I offered her a sympathetic ear. Needless to say, she came around and agreed to my offer to work for my newly named Palmer Tech (formerly Queen Consolidated). I even gave her a title, office and executive assistant to show my appreciation.

5. At this point, we had become friends, but I had also developed an unexpected and inconvenient attraction to Felicity. I asked her to accompany me to a work dinner and even provided her with a couture dress. I treated her like a valued and equal partner at work. I gave her a noble cause to get behind.

6. End result? Using her particular skill set (see, I did it again), Felicity was able to retrieve valuable design data from a damaged file server that had belonged to the Applied Sciences Department of Queen Consolidated - something that my own people had been unable to do. She also provided me with a quantum processor that enabled me to get my nanite chip functioning. Because of her, I was able to build my revolutionary A.T.O.M. Advanced Technology Operating Mechanism exosuit. And the unexpected dividend? I got a great new girlfriend - well, okay, I got a great new girlfriend for only a few months. But even though the relationship didn't work out, it was a great few months - and I still have the A.T.O.M. suit!

Stalking 102: How to Stalk Your Ex In Life and From Beyond the Grave
by D. Laurel Lance (published posthumously)

Oliver Queen is the love of my life. There, I've said it. I've known it in my bones since the moment I stole met him - although I had some doubts when he cheated on me with my sister and then died before coming back from the dead. But ever since I found out about his secret... hobby, I've been absolutely certain that we are destined to be together. It will just require patience and persistence. As a lawyer, I'm good at both. I'm also aware that Oliver's new hobby is dangerous - it's like... skydiving, for example - so I know that I am putting myself in some danger. But I'm a lawyer, so I'm trained to prepare for all contingencies. (Disclaimer: I make no warranties or guarantees about your safety or that following my rules will work in every situation.)  

1. The first and most important rule is to make sure that you stay in your ex's life. Whatever it takes, you must STAY IN HIS LIFE. In my case, it meant taking up Oliver's hobby. This was not as easy as it sounds because he wasn't encouraging about my participation, but I persisted over his objections and he eventually relented. Persistence, remember?

2. The second rule is to get to know the others who share his hobby, even if that means becoming friends with his new girlfriend. Who was it who said, "keep your friends close but your enemies closer"? It pays to know your competition. The corollary to this rule is to act like you're totally fine with being your ex's platonic friend. Patience, remember?

3. The third rule is constantly to remind your ex of your long history together and how well you know him, especially when you have the opportunity to be his personal cheerleader. For example, I once said to Oliver (regarding his hobby): "I don't know anything about hoods and masks or human weapons or any of this. But I know you. I know you like I know my own name. And I realize it may sound crazy in light of your secret [hobby], but I know who you are in your bones, Oliver. And that person - that person doesn't give up. That person, he always finds a way." 

4. There are always flies in the ointment. If for some reason, your ex suddenly drops his hobby and relocates to another city with his new girlfriend, leaving you behind, the fourth rule is to do whatever it takes to bring him back into your life (see Rule #1). In my case, I got his sister and the two of us went to visit Oliver at his new love nest. I told Oliver that we needed him to return to his hobby in Star City and again reminded him that he couldn't change who he was in his bones (see Rule #3).

5. I've said that Oliver's hobby is dangerous, so, of course, I know that I am taking a risk just to remain close to him. But I'm strong and courageous, and it's worth it to me because I have my eyes on the prize - and that's to become Mrs. Oliver Queen one day. Still, I do have a plan to ensure that he never forgets me just in case something should happen to me. Therefore, my fifth and final rule is twofold. First, always have on hand a reminder of your importance to your ex - in my case, it's an old photo of me that Oliver carried during the five years that he was away and that he gave back to me when he returned. And second, prepare IN ADVANCE what your final words will be to him. I plan to tell Oliver that he is the love of my life, that I know I am not the love of his life, and that I want him to promise to find a replacement for me on the team in our little hobby group so that a part of me will always be with him.  Why? It's simple. Knowing Oliver, these words will make him feel simultaneously remorseful and guilty, so that he will be determined to keep this promise to me. And once he fulfills this promise, the person who replaces me will always remind him of me. He will think of me for the rest of his life (see Rule #1). Of course, I hope that this rule never has to come into play. 

Stalking 103: How to Combine Business and Pleasure While Stalking Your Source
by Susan Williams

Oh please, as an investigative journalist, stalking is practically a job requirement!  It's also a 24/7 job, leaving very little time for a personal life. But who says you can't combine business with pleasure? When you're investigating a sexy, attractive guy, you can easily and efficiently mix the two things.

1. When meeting your subject for the first time, be agreeable and appear reasonable! (Give a little to get a lot.) In the case of Oliver Queen, I agreed not to attack him in my news reports for one month. I also gave him my personal cell phone number. Face it, he's a hot guy. Who do you think coined the name "Mayor Handsome"?

2. When he doesn't take the hint and call you within a reasonable time, just show up! I casually dropped by Mayor Queen's office and suggested that we meet for drinks. I killed two birds with one stone. I tried to get a sound bite from him about some recent killings in the city, and I offered to buy him a drink at a local pub. When he was reluctant, I refused to take 'no" for an answer. I simply told him that he needed a friend and that I would see him that night. I named a time and a place. That's key - don't leave things too vague! And whatever you do, don't call it a "date."

3. When he shows up for your non-date, offer a sympathetic ear while subtly prodding him for information. Be his friend, massage his ego a little! In my case, I had drinks with Mayor Queen and, by the end, he told me to call him "Oliver." 

4. Keep the momentum going by getting in his face as soon as possible after the first non-date. In my case, I had someone on Mayor Queen's protection detail text me when he was leaving his office for the day and made sure that I was there to greet him. It worked!  We went out for drinks again.

5. Now that you've established yourself as a sympathetic and nonjudgmental listener, let him make the next move. Oliver invited me to be his date to the mayoral holiday party. I made sure to arrive separately and a little late, so as not to pressure him. But I also wore a red dress to stand out.

6. Don't tell your subject that you're investigating him! Duh. While I was dating Oliver, he began to open up to me and trust me with his thoughts and fears - stuff I never would've gotten in a formal interview. At the same time, I met with my other sources to collect information about Mayor Queen. It goes without saying that I didn't tell Oliver about my investigation.

7. Again, don't pressure him. My strategy of being the sympathetic, non-pressuring friend worked. Oliver stopped by my apartment late one night, obviously seeking friendly comfort. To be honest, I had been waiting for him to stop by every night for the last week, wearing the same sexy lingerie each night! But it paid off. Still following the 'don't pressure' rule, I only gave him a kiss. No sleepover!  At least, not that night. ;) 

8. At some point, you may need to encourage him to step it up. I had to ask Oliver outright about taking our relationship to the next level. After some hemming and hawing, I was pleasantly surprised when we finally had sex. Yay! This also gave me the added benefit of checking out his naked body and seeing a suspicious-looking tattoo that tied into my investigation of Mayor Queen.

9. For reasons I can't get into, both my investigation and my relationship with Oliver ended. But it was totally worth it. (To be continued...)

Stalking 104: How to Stalk Your Friends for their Own Good
by Curtis Holt

I don't think "stalking" is the right term. FYI, I don't approve of stalking. Totally wrong. But sometimes you'll see a friend in need and you might need to track her in order to help her. A close friend of mine got involved in this kinda sketchy organization. She kept sneaking off to do stuff with that organization. She wouldn't go into detail about what she was doing or where she was going. So I took a peek at her laptop when she wasn't looking. Then I may have, sorta, kinda, slipped some tracking nanites in her blueberry pancakes. That allowed me to track her right to her new organization - and I got a good look at where she had been spending so much time. Now I can keep a better eye on her and also be her back-up. That's what friends do.

Edited April 1, 2017 by tv echo

[ComicFan777]

When watching the show, I didn't even think about the stalking part (me bad) and just went straight to: Awww....someone took the time to make blueberry pancakes for Felicity.  So happy she has a good friend!

Edited April 1, 2017 by ComicFan777

[MaisyDaisy]

14 hours ago, tv echo said:

To be clear, I do not take stalking lightly in real life, but I can't help noting that Arrow seems to promote stalkerish behavior - so I thought about the last five seasons and came up with the following (no offense intended to any fans of these characters, blame the writing)...

ARROW'S GUIDE TO STALKING

Stalking 101: How Stalking for Business Can Produce Unexpected Dividends
by Ray Palmer

When I needed a "particular skill set" - yep, that's a Liam Neeson reference from Taken (what can I say? I'm a nerd). Ahem, as I was saying, when I needed a particular skill set possessed by a particular person in order to further a business objective of mine, I set out to acquire her services with determination and a carefully planned strategy. But what I didn't expect was to end up in a personal relationship with this person, especially not after losing my fiance a few years ago. It's no secret that I once dated Felicity Smoak, so I'm sure we can all agree that it was a win-win for me.

1. Before doing anything else, first make sure that the person has the expertise that you need. I first met Felicity by visiting her at her then current place of employment, a tech store, under the guise of a customer. I wanted to scout her out first, to see if she might welcome a new job opportunity and also to see if her IT knowledge was as good as reputed. No on the first, but yes on the second.

2. Next, if you misstep and alienate the person, just try again. My acquisition of Queen Consolidated was helped along, in part, by using a hacking tip that Felicity provided to me when she thought I was a store customer. So, as a friend of Oliver Queen, she wasn't exactly feeling friendly towards me. But I pinged her phone's GPS to locate her and approached her again. This time, she accused me of "stalking" her. Ha, ha. She was still not receptive to my job offer.

3. Here's where determination comes in... I sent her flowers. I sent texts and emails. I called her repeatedly. Still no go.

4. If determination doesn't work, then resort to strategy. There are always multiple ways to get around an obstacle. Felicity still refused to work for me - so I bought the tech store that employed her. By this time, I had noticed that she was struggling with a personal problem. So when she became angry about becoming my employee over her objection, I offered her a sympathetic ear. Needless to say, she came around and agreed to my offer to work for my newly named Palmer Tech (formerly Queen Consolidated). I even gave her a title, office and executive assistant to show my appreciation.

5. At this point, we had become friends, but I had also developed an unexpected and inconvenient attraction to Felicity. I asked her to accompany me to a work dinner and even provided her with a couture dress. I treated her like a valued and equal partner at work. I gave her a noble cause to get behind.

6. End result? Using her particular skill set (see, I did it again), Felicity was able to retrieve valuable design data from a damaged file server that had belonged to the Applied Sciences Department of Queen Consolidated - something that my own people had been unable to do. She also provided me with a quantum processor that enabled me to get my nanite chip functioning. Because of her, I was able to build my revolutionary A.T.O.M. Advanced Technology Operating Mechanism exosuit. And the unexpected dividend? I got a great new girlfriend - well, okay, I got a great new girlfriend for only a few months. But even though the relationship didn't work out, it was a great few months - and I still have the A.T.O.M. suit!

Stalking 102: How to Stalk Your Ex In Life and From Beyond the Grave
by D. Laurel Lance (published posthumously)

Oliver Queen is the love of my life. There, I've said it. I've known it in my bones since the moment I stole met him - although I had some doubts when he cheated on me with my sister and then died before coming back from the dead. But ever since I found out about his secret... hobby, I've been absolutely certain that we are destined to be together. It will just require patience and persistence. As a lawyer, I'm good at both. I'm also aware that Oliver's new hobby is dangerous - it's like... skydiving, for example - so I know that I am putting myself in some danger. But I'm a lawyer, so I'm trained to prepare for all contingencies. (Disclaimer: I make no warranties or guarantees about your safety or that following my rules will work in every situation.)  

1. The first and most important rule is to make sure that you stay in your ex's life. Whatever it takes, you must STAY IN HIS LIFE. In my case, it meant taking up Oliver's hobby. This was not as easy as it sounds because he wasn't encouraging about my participation, but I persisted over his objections and he eventually relented. Persistence, remember?

2. The second rule is to get to know the others who share his hobby, even if that means becoming friends with his new girlfriend. Who was it who said, "keep your friends close but your enemies closer"? It pays to know your competition. The corollary to this rule is to act like you're totally fine with being your ex's platonic friend. Patience, remember?

3. The third rule is constantly to remind your ex of your long history together and how well you know him, especially when you have the opportunity to be his personal cheerleader. For example, I once said to Oliver (regarding his hobby): "I don't know anything about hoods and masks or human weapons or any of this. But I know you. I know you like I know my own name. And I realize it may sound crazy in light of your secret [hobby], but I know who you are in your bones, Oliver. And that person - that person doesn't give up. That person, he always finds a way." 

4. There are always flies in the ointment. If for some reason, your ex suddenly drops his hobby and relocates to another city with his new girlfriend, leaving you behind, the fourth rule is to do whatever it takes to bring him back into your life (see Rule #1). In my case, I got his sister and the two of us went to visit Oliver at his new love nest. I told Oliver that we needed him to return to his hobby in Star City and again reminded him that he couldn't change who he was in his bones (see Rule #3).

5. I've said that Oliver's hobby is dangerous, so, of course, I know that I am taking a risk just to remain close to him. But I'm strong and courageous, and it's worth it to me because I have my eyes on the prize - and that's to become Mrs. Oliver Queen one day. Still, I do have a plan to ensure that he never forgets me just in case something should happen to me. Therefore, my fifth and final rule is twofold. First, always have on hand a reminder of your importance to your ex - in my case, it's an old photo of me that Oliver carried during the five years that he was away and that he gave back to me when he returned. And second, prepare IN ADVANCE what your final words will be to him. I plan to tell Oliver that he is the love of my life, that I know I am not the love of his life, and that I want him to promise to find a replacement for me on the team in our little hobby group so that a part of me will always be with him.  Why? It's simple. Knowing Oliver, these words will make him feel simultaneously remorseful and guilty, so that he will be determined to keep this promise to me. And once he fulfills this promise, the person who replaces me will always remind him of me. He will think of me for the rest of his life (see Rule #1). Of course, I hope that this rule never has to come into play. 

Stalking 103: How to Combine Business and Pleasure While Stalking Your Source
by Susan Williams

Oh please, as an investigative journalist, stalking is practically a job requirement!  It's also a 24/7 job, leaving very little time for a personal life. But who says you can't combine business with pleasure? When you're investigating a sexy, attractive guy, you can easily and efficiently mix the two things.

1. When meeting your subject for the first time, be agreeable and appear reasonable! (Give a little to get a lot.) In the case of Oliver Queen, I agreed not to attack him in my news reports for one month. I also gave him my personal cell phone number. Face it, he's a hot guy. Who do you think coined the name "Mayor Handsome"?

2. When he doesn't take the hint and call you within a reasonable time, just show up! I casually dropped by Mayor Queen's office and suggested that we meet for drinks. I killed two birds with one stone. I tried to get a sound bite from him about some recent killings in the city, and I offered to buy him a drink at a local pub. When he was reluctant, I refused to take 'no" for an answer. I simply told him that he needed a friend and that I would see him that night. I named a time and a place. That's key - don't leave things too vague! And whatever you do, don't call it a "date."

3. When he shows up for your non-date, offer a sympathetic ear while subtly prodding him for information. Be his friend, massage his ego a little! In my case, I had drinks with Mayor Queen and, by the end, he told me to call him "Oliver." 

4. Keep the momentum going by getting in his face as soon as possible after the first non-date. In my case, I had someone on Mayor Queen's protection detail text me when he was leaving his office for the day and made sure that I was there to greet him. It worked!  We went out for drinks again.

5. Now that you've established yourself as a sympathetic and nonjudgmental listener, let him make the next move. Oliver invited me to be his date to the mayoral holiday party. I made sure to arrive separately and a little late, so as not to pressure him. But I also wore a red dress to stand out.

6. Don't tell your subject that you're investigating him! Duh. While I was dating Oliver, he began to open up to me and trust me with his thoughts and fears - stuff I never would've gotten in a formal interview. At the same time, I met with my other sources to collect information about Mayor Queen. It goes without saying that I didn't tell Oliver about my investigation.

7. Again, don't pressure him. My strategy of being the sympathetic, non-pressuring friend worked. Oliver stopped by my apartment late one night, obviously seeking friendly comfort. To be honest, I had been waiting for him to stop by every night for the last week, wearing the same sexy lingerie each night! But it paid off. Still following the 'don't pressure' rule, I only gave him a kiss. No sleepover!  At least, not that night. ;) 

8. At some point, you may need to encourage him to step it up. I had to ask Oliver outright about taking our relationship to the next level. After some hemming and hawing, I was pleasantly surprised when we finally had sex. Yay! This also gave me the added benefit of checking out his naked body and seeing a suspicious-looking tattoo that tied into my investigation of Mayor Queen.

9. For reasons I can't get into, both my investigation and my relationship with Oliver ended. But it was totally worth it. (To be continued...)

Stalking 104: How to Stalk Your Friends for their Own Good
by Curtis Holt

I don't think "stalking" is the right term. FYI, I don't approve of stalking. Totally wrong. But sometimes you'll see a friend in need and you might need to track her in order to help her. A close friend of mine got involved in this kinda sketchy organization. She kept sneaking off to do stuff with that organization. She wouldn't go into detail about what she was doing or where she was going. So I took a peek at her laptop when she wasn't looking. Then I may have, sorta, kinda, slipped some tracking nanites in her blueberry pancakes. That allowed me to track her right to her new organization - and I got a good look at where she had been spending so much time. Now I can keep a better eye on her and also be her back-up. That's what friends do.

Hilarious!!!!

[Mellowyellow]

27 minutes ago, kismet said:

The non-kiss in s2 I think was one of the best decision they ever made regarding Olicity on so many levels. I loved it. I'm glad they never had the kiss they filmed air. And if I'm being honest, it was not that good of a first TV kiss. The hospital hallway was far better executed, glad it was canon's first kiss.

Agree with you! Haha I actually saw the cancelled kiss first via random youtube clip and got very puzzled by the time I saw the real scene.

I don't know about you guys but I loved "Don't ask me to say that I don't love you" as well. Yes he could be as annoying as hell with his maybes dangling but I always felt that he pined after her and that's one of the things I love.

Some of the fanfic I read always makes it sound like she's the one pining for him but I always felt with cannon that he pined for her more. It's one of the things that made him endearing to me. Please 5B don't do anything to screw that up for me! 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I loved the deleted kiss even more than the official first one. I'm glad it was cut because even if Oliver had real feelings for Felicity they were executing a plan but the rest was pretty perfect for me. I love that he was in the arrow suit but without his hood and mask, that he waited for her to decide to kiss him and the way she grabbed his arm. Also SA had a buzz cut for the official kiss that makes him look less attractive to me so that's another very shallow reason for my preference for the deleted one, LOL.

[Hiveminder]

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Agree with you! Haha I actually saw the cancelled kiss first via random youtube clip and got very puzzled by the time I saw the real scene.

I don't know about you guys but I loved "Don't ask me to say that I don't love you" as well. Yes he could be as annoying as hell with his maybes dangling but I always felt that he pined after her and that's one of the things I love.

Some of the fanfic I read always makes it sound like she's the one pining for him but I always felt with cannon that he pined for her more. It's one of the things that made him endearing to me. Please 5B don't do anything to screw that up for me! 

I agree with you about Oliver pining more. I think it's partly just their personalities. Oliver pines. Felicity forces herself to move on. 

[SmallScreenDiva]

8 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

I don't know about you guys but I loved "Don't ask me to say that I don't love you" as well. Yes he could be as annoying as hell with his maybes dangling but I always felt that he pined after her and that's one of the things I love.

ITA. I think a lot of people read her crush as pining, but I always thought for Felicity it was a crush that she thought was "unthinkable." And so she put it in that box and just let herself enjoy him, even though she probably wanted to smack him sometimes. Oliver realized his feelings way before she did. Season 2 was fun to watch in terms of Olicity because a lot of what Oliver did was in reaction to how he read Felicity's actions. The writers were sort of doing the miscommunication trope the whole season.

And then S3 was him pining semi-openly but being a dolt about it and pushing her away. 

And they're doing it again this season. Oliver is thinking Felicity is knee deep in Helix because of Billy. Have you noticed he's the one who keeps bringing him up? He keeps reassuring her they'll "get justice for Billy," except Felicity actually first got in bed with Helix because of Digg. 

Edited April 8, 2017 by SmallScreenDiva

[insomniadreams88]

6 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

And they're doing it again this season. Oliver is thinking Felicity is knee deep in Helix because of Billy. Have you noticed he's the one who keeps bringing him up? He keeps reassuring her they'll "get justice for Billy," except Felicity actually first got in bed with Helix because of Digg. 

Yeah, I feel like every time someone brings up Billy and how Felicity is going after Chase because of him, it's basically the writers using the characters to tell us that relationship was more important than it actually was, like WM in her interviews.

Meanwhile, nothing we've seen from Felicity suggests that. She got into Helix to help Diggle, did a favor for them to find Susan and was willing to do whatever she had to to find Oliver. Has she even brought up Billy since he died or has everyone else done so first?

[SmallScreenDiva]

7 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yeah, I feel like every time someone brings up Billy and how Felicity is going after Chase because of him, it's basically the writers using the characters to tell us that relationship was more important than it actually was, like WM in her interviews.

I read it a little differently. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Oliver is the only one bringing up Billy on the show. So I'm reading that not as the show telling me Felicity's relationship with Billy is super important but that OLIVER believes it is. And, just like in S2, it may be impacting his actions more than he lets on.

[insomniadreams88]

4 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I read it a little differently. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Oliver is the only one bringing up Billy on the show. So I'm reading that not as the show telling me Felicity's relationship with Billy is super important but that OLIVER believes it is. And, just like in S2, it may be impacting his actions more than he lets on.

Yeah, that's what I meant - that the other characters think it was more important than it actually was. I see it as Oliver figuring that Felicity thought it was "real" since she was still with him in 509, even though we never saw anything on-screen that suggested it was. 

[leopardprint]

54 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

9 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

 

I agree with you about Oliver pining more. I think it's partly just their personalities. Oliver pines. Felicity forces herself to move on. 

Oh, this is so true. Oliver wallows and broods about everything (except the breakup  ¯\_(ツ)_/¯) and Felicity pushes forward. I think S1 Felicity just admired a hot dude and Oliver found her useful, but also fun and cute. I think S2 when they spent basically all their time together is when real feelings started to develop and I imagine Oliver would find someone who unconditionally supports him, while calling him out when he needs it, very attractive. I kind of liked the flip of the "nerdy" one moving on while the "hot" one pines in a dark cave. (Obviously Felicity is also totally hot) 

26 minutes ago, insomniadreams88 said:

Yeah, I feel like every time someone brings up Billy and how Felicity is going after Chase because of him, it's basically the writers using the characters to tell us that relationship was more important than it actually was, like WM in her interviews.

Yes! The Billy situation is just as bizarre as the Susan situation, I think it doesn't get as much attention because it ended earlier and had less scenes. I think she mentioned him in 510 but nothing since then. I've snarked at the show for making it seem like Oliver shrugged off killing a cop but I wish they had shown a scene of Felicity visiting his grave or looking at photos, anything. I honestly think the whole Felicity is pretending she's fine but isn't is a cop out so they don't have to show scenes like this. 

16 minutes ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

So I'm reading that not as the show telling me Felicity's relationship with Billy is super important but that OLIVER believes it is.

Extrapolating from the EPs Susan comments and Oliver's actions in that situation, I think what Oliver believes is supposed to be the show reality. Oliver says Susan is a good reporter and person so she is. Oliver believes Felicity cared about Billy, so she did. I'm probably not explaining myself well but basically the show is using Oliver as a shortcut because they don't want to have to show/write these things.

Edited April 8, 2017 by leopardprint

[Midnight Lullaby]

The feeling I get is that Oliver still doesn't believe he deserves Felicity and thinks in Billy she found a better guy not realizing what Felicity had with Billy wasn't meaningful at all. It was weird how when he found out she was seeing him he told her he wants her to be happy and that he has to move on as well basically assuming that was it for them, even if imo she was clearly giving signals she wasn't so sure about that. It's like he doesn't believe he can be her first choice even if all her actions are saying that he is.

[Hiveminder]

31 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

The feeling I get is that Oliver still doesn't believe he deserves Felicity and thinks in Billy she found a better guy not realizing what Felicity had with Billy wasn't meaningful at all. It was weird how when he found out she was seeing him he told her he wants her to be happy and that he has to move on as well basically assuming that was it for them, even if imo she was clearly giving signals she wasn't so sure about that. It's like he doesn't believe he can be her first choice even if all her actions are saying that he is.

That speaks to the reason why I was never surprised that Oliver didn't try harder to get Felicity to take him back. I think Oliver's idea of his own worthlessness is so ingrained that even when he was happiest a part of him was expecting Felicity to wise up and move on to someone better. So when she broke up with him he was heartbroken, but not surprised. There are very few people that Oliver doesn't think are better than him, so when Felicity realizes he's not good enough for her (in his mind, anyway), he's not going to stand in her way. He probably thinks he's doing her a favor by not trying to get her back. 

[leopardprint]

6 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

That speaks to the reason why I was never surprised that Oliver didn't try harder to get Felicity to take him back. I think Oliver's idea of his own worthlessness is so ingrained that even when he was happiest a part of him was expecting Felicity to wise up and move on to someone better. So when she broke up with him he was heartbroken, but not surprised. There are very few people that Oliver doesn't think are better than him, so when Felicity realizes he's not good enough for her (in his mind, anyway), he's not going to stand in her way. He probably thinks he's doing her a favor by not trying to get her back. 

But wasn't this directly addressed in 406? (LOL, I just expected continuity from Arrow) Also, the breakup is mostly his fault so I guess I see his guilt as rational. I buy he feels he had no right to fight for her because he messed up but he didn't seem to have issues of worthiness with Susan. He even had the reason of a target on his back to not date her and according to the show, he dated her because he was lonely so he used her to boost his self-esteem? Wow, I finally managed to make myself feel bad for Susan. 

Hold on, that was was a momentary lapse, I'm over it.

 

[SmallScreenDiva]

1 hour ago, leopardprint said:

Extrapolating from the EPs Susan comments and Oliver's actions in that situation, I think what Oliver believes is supposed to be the show reality. Oliver says Susan is a good reporter and person so she is. Oliver believes Felicity cared about Billy, so she did. I'm probably not explaining myself well but basically the show is using Oliver as a shortcut because they don't want to have to show/write these things.

Given how many times none of what the EPs have said have actually been seen on screen, I don't want to use them as guide to what's the show reality. And I can't imagine what Oliver believes as the show reality either. Because I don't think he's a serial killer and a monster, and yet he believes that. The show reality is what's on screen. However much they push Susan in interviews, the show reality is that she's an unethical reporter who pursued her subject sexually. I don't care what Guggenheim says (I think it's just another case of him doubling down on a failed story line, similar to BMD), this is what Arrow showed us.

@Hiveminder, you may be on to something there. I never quite realized just how badly Oliver thought of himself until the recent episodes. And yeah, there's always been a sense of "she's better off without me" coming from him. 

[tangerine95]

Yeah tbh as annoying as it is that Oliver always just accepts things so easily and didn't fight for Felicity apart from the fake wedding stuff which was pretty misguided anyway, it is in character for him. I just thought it would be more interesting and show some growth if Oliver didn't just give up and act resigned this time but they seemed to want more of a regression in every way for Oliver this season.It would be hard to show her she can trust him and he can be the partner she wants which is how he could have fought for her when he doesn't even believe it himself.I do agree he doesn't believe he deserves Felicity and was basically waiting for her to realize that. 

Felicity dating Billy I can make sense of because it is in her character to try to move on no matter what but even she should have learned that doesn't work because she did the exact same thing with Ray and it failed and she actually seemed to at least like him unlike with Billy. 

Oliver dating Susan makes no sense. I literally don't know what he saw in her at all, the relationship made him look messy because he's a mayor dating a reporter, he had Chase after him,everyone he cares about seemed to be against it, he is in love with someone else. So like I'll never get what made him bother, it literally would have made more sense to me if he had random hook ups than hanging on to someone so awful and inappropriate and trying to make that a relationship.

The only thing that kinda makes sense and goes with the loneliness thing they gave as a reason is that the feeling I got from Oliver until 5. 16 was that he was trying really hard to do what he thought was right even if he didn't really feel it. Trying as a mayor even to the cost of being GA, forcing the dumb optimism and trusting everyone thing in every situation,getting into a new relationship instead of resigning himself to be alone like in season 3 etc.But I really think the reason is the writers were all anti actual romance and feelings for most of the season so they thought it would be lame if Oliver pined and stayed single again so they gave him a LI. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

The thing I don't like about Oliver's behavior after they broke up is that he didn't try to be there for her as a friend. I understand it isn't easy to find the right way to be there for an ex but they kept working together and relying on each other and Felicity does it, she showed him support even in ep 20 that was shortly after they broke up. She has been through so much that I would have liked to see him asking if she was doing fine or be shown worrying about her. I think we didn't see this in 5A because as MG said they wanted to tell other stories than Olicity and the writers don't have a great track record at showing how the relationships between the characters develop..also I think having SA and EBR share emotional scenes together, even if meant as platonic, was probably going to overshadow what they were trying to sell with Oliver/Susan.

[theOAfc]

2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

I read it a little differently. Correct me if I'm wrong, but Oliver is the only one bringing up Billy on the show. So I'm reading that not as the show telling me Felicity's relationship with Billy is super important but that OLIVER believes it is.

I dont think they understand how this looks but its very often in this show that they use characters as their mouthpiece in order to say something to the viewers,something that they dont have the writing skills to properly explore and show to the viewers. For example,they dont show Felicity struggling about Billy but they had Oliver talk to her about him. Their goal is to indirectly tell the viewers that Felicity thinks about Billy and is still dealing with it but eventually this ends up being odd because they dont show her dealing with his loss or struggling over his death(they can claim stuff on interviews all they want).

They have been doing the same thing(to a bigger, more "in the face", extent) with the ridiculous mentions of Laurel's legacy this season. We were never shown that Laurel indeed managed to create anything similar to a legacy during the one year she was  Black Canary. She was never shown to be special or a leader or someone that inspired the rest (Evelyn turned out to be a villain). She was never iconic(no matter how much they expect viewers to think so, just because of the comic title). She was written in the show as a sidekick but after her death, characters would keep talking about her legacy,a legacy we never witnessed.

So they have this weird type of writing that they treat viewers as 5year olds expecting them to have the opinions that the show keeps telling them to have,instead of forming opinions based on what the show is showing them. Its amusing how these writers often get upset that their audience(or part of it) has critical thinking, questions stuff and doesnt just eat up bad writing.

 The show does the telling not showing all the time,its the main problem with their (bad)writing.