Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[dtissagirl]

I mean, if I wanted L/O to happen in the bizarro world where I like gross pairings, I guess the first item on the list of things that I would have to want for the show is for Felicity to leave.

1. Get rid of Felicity

2. Find a magical amulet that transforms anti-chemistry into chemistry in CW shows

3. Hire a plastic surgeon to fix Steve's Involuntary Constipated Face in his scenes with KC

4. Invent that little gadget from Men in Black that erases people's memory, find out where everyone in the audience lives, go to their houses and erase episodes 114 to 423 of Arrow from their minds

5. Start episode 501 immediately after the S1 finale, and go from there, but this time with no Felicity, no Sara, and maybe also no Diggle or Thea either, so that Steve and KC can only ever have scenes between themselves, and then there's no way to compare their relationship with any other relationship on the show.

That would work.

Edited December 20, 2015 by dtissagirl

[lemotomato]

5. Start episode 501 immediately after the S1 finale, and go from there, but this time with no Felicity, no Sara, and maybe also no Diggle or Thea either, so that Steve and KC can only ever have scenes between themselves, and then there's no way to compare their relationship with any other relationship on the show.

That's exactly what we saw in 409: Felicity, Diggle, and Thea all had to get abducted to create a believable scenario where Oliver would have to turn to Laurel for help and support. Because if there had been anyone else available, he wouldn't need her. And then after everything is over, he acknowledges Malcom Merlyn's assistance and not hers until she prompts him. 

 

Totally endgame/OTP material right there.

Edited December 20, 2015 by lemotomato

[dtissagirl]

The thing about Felicity being the one to ~make Oliver into the man Laurel deserves~ [besides inducing vomiting, I mean] is that it still gives Laurel no narrative role. They embedded the premise of The Love of Woman guiding Oliver's soul ~into the light~ into the show. If all of the maturing and growing and adulting and stepping into the light that Oliver had to do was with Felicity anyway, then Laurel's just the arm candy. It's more demeaning to Laurel than everything they've ever wrote for her.

[statsgirl]

But that's always been their shortcoming with Laurel, that they can't write a decent narrative role for her.  Either it misfires (Dinah Laurel Lance, always saving the world" or her addiction arc) or they rush through the thing ("Look she's wearing the black leather and fishnets; no, it's not Insta-Canary because she fought badly for two episodes")

 

Maybe Oliver and Laurel are like jigsaw puzzle pieces that don't fit -- Oliver grew as a character when he was with Felicity and Laurel grew when she was with Tommy or latterly Sara.

[way2interested]

It's times like these when I wonder what the Ted Grant romance would have been like and how that would have fit into the s3 story. Would that have made Laurel or her BC arc better? Would Laurel have been a different type of character or exhibit a different type of growth? What would have the additional romance even done?

[wonderwall]

It's times like these when I wonder what the Ted Grant romance would have been like and how that would have fit into the s3 story. Would that have made Laurel or her BC arc better? Would Laurel have been a different type of character or exhibit a different type of growth? What would have the additional romance even done?

 

Given her more screentime with someone else KC had terrible chemistry with (AKA the most wooden actor I've ever seen)? 

 

I personally don't think she would've been any different.

Edited December 21, 2015 by wonderwall

[kismet]

For me OQ is like those little foam things you buy and when you put them in water they expand. OQ character grew to full size when they added water (FS).

On the other hand, LL is like a shrinky-dink. She started full size but when you put her under heat she shrinks to mini-size. I'm not sure any relationship could improve her character. Tommy made her better, but she still was not great and then they killed him before he could had another shot. I honestly never saw anything appealing about her & Ted Grant. Im glad the actor became unavailable. I did see her have sparks with Blood & DA (Paul from OB) but both were bad guys or in antagonistic roles. Which is why when & if they give her a LI, I really only see it working with a villain. LL/KC just doesn't play well opposite good guys.

Edited December 21, 2015 by kismet

[statsgirl]

If/when they give her a relationship, I'd like to see Laurel in a relationship with a complex grey character like Sebastian Blood, one who has good qualities but also unethical ones so that we could see how she deals with that.  Tommy was a good guy and he was also beta to her so it wasn't until he died that she had to integrate her feelings about him and Oliver.  Adam Donner (ADA) was just a coward in the end.

[Happy Harpy]

I agree that KC/LL didn't find imo anyone who did for her character what Felicity did for the character of Oliver. I don't think, actually, that anyone on the show did for Laurel what Diggle did for Oliver. Laurel didn't find her "person" yet and KC didn't find the actor/actress who could be the yin to her yang or vice-versa.

And yet, the writers tried. With Thea, with Nyssa, with Diggle, with Felicity, with Quentin...and the problem imo is that all those characters click/work better with other characters than with Laurel. Even Quentin, for me, worked better with Sara, and even Oliver; and clicked better as far as chemistry goes with Felicity and now with Donna. YMMV.

 

I didn't see Ted Grant, and I thought that the Adam actor was even worse than KC as far as wooden goes in a role (again, I'm talking about a particular role, not of acting abilities in general). Laurel was going in ten different directions when she was "dating" Blood, so I was too WTFing to pay attention.

I do think that finding someone to complement her could help her character. That's also why I advocated her going to the spinoff, where she could get the chance to have a group gravitating around her, instead of being a satellite in Oliver's. YMMV again.

 

On the romantic side, I think that Tommy could have worked, if only because C.Donnell was imo excellent in the role and used Tommy's sincere love for Laurel as a "redemption" for the frat boy persona of his character and as a way to give him depth. It's too bad that KC didn't have the good idea to follow his lead in her acting choices and was 100% on board of the Titanic of all ships, aka O/L. On rewatch, it's weird to see her desperately trying to convey Laurel's deep and intense feelings for Oliver and hitting the wall of anti-chemistry like a fly bumps into a window; whereas she doesn't exploit the better chemistry that she has with C.Donnell.  (Everything  imho, of course)

I could have liked the Laurel who seemed truly at loss over Tommy breaking up with her and sincerely wanted him back. I could have believed in O/L as friends, actually, if he had helped them to get back together "for good" instead of boinking her like two minutes after he encouraged Tommy to go for her. Killing off Moira was for me the show's biggest mistake in hindsight, but as far as Laurel and O/L go, I think that having them jump in bed at the end of S1, and the way it was done, did at least as much damage as the sister swapping. And I came to think that maybe, that's one reason why they didn't use Tommy as a motivation for Laurel to become BC -whereas it would have been a good set-up, and still early on the show. Regardless of his tryst with Laurel, Oliver was still affected by Tommy's judgement on his activities as a vigilante because Laurel didn't define his entire relationship with Tommy. But it would have been difficult for Laurel to claim she changed her life and went against everything her father taught her for someone she couldn't ditch fast enough once she knew that Oliver was available again.

 

If/when they give her a relationship, I'd like to see Laurel in a relationship with a complex grey character like Sebastian Blood, one who has good qualities but also unethical ones so that we could see how she deals with that.  Tommy was a good guy and he was also beta to her so it wasn't until he died that she had to integrate her feelings about him and Oliver.  Adam Donner (ADA) was just a coward in the end.

 

I see what you mean, and it could be interesting, but...I think that Laurel is written as way too self-righteous and, as much as I hate this expression, high maintenance to be able to have a romantic relationship with a grey or a complex character. The biggest problem imo would be that she has no subtlety whatsoever, and doesn't know the meaning of "middle ground", which would make her unable to understand/accept his flaws, or to comprehend his complexity. I mean, we're talking about someone who thought that going to beat up a guy in an alley with a baseball bat and no training was a good solution to a problem of abusive relationship.

Based on what I saw of her romantic relationships, with Tommy and Oliver, I have the feeling that she puts a label on the guy, decides what he should do and how, where they should go and how...then she puts blinders on and sticks to her ideas to the bitter end. It has to go her way, she doesn't see anything else and I don't think she's able to.

For example, she decided that she and Oliver had to live together and didn't even realize that he'd rather have a root canal, or an escapade with her sister instead -and Oliver the frat boy wasn't exactly subtle. The blinders were full on when Sara told her about the cheating, too.

And if she was unable to understand why Tommy wouldn't want to ask Oliver for a job -I don't say she was wrong here, just that she didn't even envision that there could be any other POV than what she thought was a good idea- I don't know how she could get to grips with more serious issues.

It's of course only a personal impression, but I think that Laurel would do with a grey character what she did with pre-island Oliver. She wouldn't deal with his flaws, she'd erase them or justify them.

 

Actually, I'm not far from thinking that Ray would have worked well for Laurel. Ray had imo what Laurel was attracted to in pre-island Oliver, on a superficial level. Moreover, I think she needs to be impressed by a man in order to be seduced, she needs to admire him especially in a field where she isn't able to compete (her crush on the Hood, for example) and being a genius scientist, Ray qualified. I didn't find him particularly subtle, and his way of going from point A to point B by a straight but over the top line, like buying a company to get someone to work for him, is for me quite reminiscent of Laurel's logic. Nevertheless, their different tempers, she more in your face, he more deflective, would prevent them from clashing the way post-island Oliver and Laurel do, for example.

Storyline-wise, they also shared a loss, and were at the same point as wannabe vigilantes, which would have allowed them to bond and grow up together maybe in the same way as OTA did. Needless to say that it would have allowed imo a better integration of both characters, but this post is too verbose already so I'll stop here.

Edited December 21, 2015 by Happy Harpy

[kismet]

I will always say that I think Ray & Laurel would have made a perfect couple (& still do). One of the times I actually liked douche Ray was when he was acting opposite LL. Coincidentally it was also one of the only times I enjoyed LL in s3. A rare moment for both of them and for that episode.

 

I personally just really enjoy the actor who plays Adam the ADA. I might have been transferring a lot of personal attraction to the screen, instead of seeing actual chemistry. I also feel like if they are gonna force me to watch scenes with LL, I'd rather have them filled with attractive males to distract me. LL doesn't need to be part of any Bechdel testing as far as I'm concerned. His character was sorta a wooden tool. But still so pleasant on the eyes. So perhaps, I just wanted him to spend more time on my screen. Sorry to say it, but considering KC's acting choices and the writers inability to write LL well, I care more about my personal (mostly visual) viewing experience than I do LL actually having a good relationship match at this point in the series.

[Happy Harpy]

His character was sorta a wooden tool. But still so pleasant on the eyes. So perhaps, I just wanted him to spend more time on my screen. Sorry to say it, but considering KC's acting choices and the writers inability to write LL well, I care more about my personal (mostly visual) viewing experience than I do LL actually having a good relationship match at this point in the series.

I certainly won't cast you the first stone...there are some shows I watched merely for the "scenery" :D

My problem with Laurel, beyond the structural issues like writing and acting although they of course contribute to it, is precisely that I don't enjoy her. Even the rare times I agree with her or don't find her at fault, it's the head talking, not the heart. It's always "Laurel didn't bother me" and never "I smiled when I saw Laurel doing/saying this or that".

After all this time, I don't think that I will ever enjoy Laurel for herself, or that any main character on Arrow can make me enjoy her either. And I'm tired of it because it affects my enjoyment of Arrow (my favorite TV experience is when I love all the main characters). I don't care about Laurel finding her "person" per se, my partner of choice for her would be a coffin. But if she isn't the one in the grave, a relationship that would engage me and entertain me as a viewer, in other word the magic of TV chemistry, is I think the only thing that could change my perception of her character at this point.

[wonderwall]

Cute parallel of Oliver and his stupid ass face

 

[looptab]

And the stupid dimples.

[catrox14]

Ah, for the want of a dash...

 

"Olivers' stupid-ass face

"Oliver's stupid assface"

Oliver's stupid ass-face.

Olivers' stupidass face.

Oliver's stupid ass face. 

 

I'm sorry, I couldn't help myself.

Edited December 23, 2015 by catrox14

[statsgirl]

I see what you mean, and it could be interesting, but...I think that Laurel is written as way too self-righteous and, as much as I hate this expression, high maintenance to be able to have a romantic relationship with a grey or a complex character. The biggest problem imo would be that she has no subtlety whatsoever, and doesn't know the meaning of "middle ground", which would make her unable to understand/accept his flaws, or to comprehend his complexity. I mean, we're talking about someone who thought that going to beat up a guy in an alley with a baseball bat and no training was a good solution to a problem of abusive relationship.

Based on what I saw of her romantic relationships, with Tommy and Oliver, I have the feeling that she puts a label on the guy, decides what he should do and how, where they should go and how...then she puts blinders on and sticks to her ideas to the bitter end. It has to go her way, she doesn't see anything else and I don't think she's able to.

This is why giving her a grey love interest could help her character grow and develop complexity, if they wrote her having to deal with realizing she had blinkers and then had to adapt to taking them off and dealing with the other character as the person he is.

 

But that would require more writing for Laurel than they seem to want to do.  Insta-Canary, Insta-relationship.  If they're going to keep Laurel on the show, I wish they would give her some decent character development writing.

Edited December 23, 2015 by statsgirl

[BkWurm1]

Cute parallel of Oliver and his stupid ass face

 

Can anyone place in what episode and/or where in it, the top GIF is from?

[NumberCruncher]

The top GIF is from 3x20 after they have sex.

[BkWurm1]

The top GIF is from 3x20 after they have sex.

Oh!  Now I see it.  I swear, I was looking at that big blue thing in the background and thinking it was a tarp or something.   Sky and moon, duh!

[Guest]

Cute parallel of Oliver and his stupid ass face

 

 

Wow objection! I didn't need this today. Beautiful idiots.

[johntfs]

I'm kind of late to this party, having gotten and consumed Arrow Season 1.0 over Christmas and enjoying enough to get Seasons 2 and 3.

 

While a glance at the posts here indicates that the Oliver/Felicity relationship develops quite a bit over the longer terms, it's interesting to me that right now it feels mildly parasitic.  Oliver in the first part of Season 1 is a dark, cold character.  It's interesting to me that only after meeting Felicity does he embrace Helene, Mckenna and even Laurel.  Oliver seems to be a person suffering "emotional hypothermia" at the onset of the series.  It's interesting that he keeps going back to Felicity even though he has to know it would be risky and he presumably would have an army of potential consultants happy to aid someone who could easily become their ultimate boss.  He goes to her because he needs the light and life she represents.

 

Also, another thing that seems odd to me is that Felicity is apparently single at this point.  Given the way she seems to be both beautiful and approachable, figure guys in Queen Consolidated would be taking hammers to their laptops just to get some facetime with her.

Edited December 28, 2015 by johntfs

[Morrigan2575]

That's a very interesting take on S1 Oliver and his relationship with Felicity.

It's always fun to get a new viewers take on the characters and relationships

Edited December 28, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[bijoux]

I attribute Oliver opening himself up to people to both Felicity and Dig. I watched episodes 1x07 and 1x08 (with Helena's original appearance) last night. The first time (or three) I watched I was too caught up in, oh my God, Oliver, why are you so stupid? Dig, my deepest condolences for dealing with this idiot. I mean, honestly, bringing a psycho killer to your lair, uncovering your and your associate's identities AND adding to her skill set? Getting back to the point, amidst all that, I think this is the first time I actually took into account how much and how explicitly Oliver was pushed in that direction. Both Dig and Thea prodded him to forge human connections. Would have been swell if someone had the foresight to add, not with psycho killers!

As for Felicity, who's to say that the scenario of her being hounded by charmed co-workers wasn't the case? We know she was single because she said so, but that doesn't have to mean there weren't interested parties. For all we know, when doped up Oliver came to find her, she could have been bitching to the woman she was talking to about Jack from accounting who called her to come because he didn't turn on his computer screen. In fact, it would be hilarious if she put Oliver with his lame excuses into the same category with half a dozen others. Oh geez, not another one. But I can't turn him down that easily because of who he is. At least he's nice to look at.

[Morrigan2575]

As for Felicity, who's to say that the scenario of her being hounded by charmed co-workers wasn't the case? We know she was single because she said so, but that doesn't have to mean there weren't interested parties. For all we know, when doped up Oliver came to find her, she could have been bitching to the woman she was talking to about Jack from accounting who called her to come because he didn't turn on his computer screen. In fact, it would be hilarious if she put Oliver with his lame excuses into the same category with half a dozen others. Oh geez, not another one. But I can't turn him down that easily because of who he is. At least he's nice to look at.

Canon does not support this at all. We're never told about Felicity dating, or having admirers. We never see Felicity with Co-workers and the only man shown to take a sexual interest in Felicity was the slimeball in the Elevator when they were infiltrating Merlyn Global. There's actual text in 210 that confirms Felicity isn't being chased by a ton of men and is in fact very, very single.

[quarks]

Yeah, in 210 Felicity says that she finally has a guy interested in her and he ends up in a coma.

 

What's interesting about this is that, given how gorgeous all of the women on Arrow are, how little most of them (comparatively) seem to date. The first few episodes clarify that Laurel is work obsessed and has barely dated anyone other than Oliver and Tommy; since those two she had a drunk dinner with the DA, very briefly dated Blood (it's not clear if things ever went beyond the Christmas shopping/hug stage), and I guess sorta dated Ted Grant (that wasn't clear either.) In three and a half years. Thea seemed to be playing a bit the first season, but even then, there was all of two guys. After her breakup with Roy, months passed before that awful DJ. To be fair that guy would have put anyone off dating for years. Possibly off the human race for years. Then she had the brief return to Roy, followed by, apparently, more months without anyone until Alex. Helena apparently went from fiancee to celibacy to Oliver to right back to celibacy again, although I like to think she had plenty of one night stands along the way. Isabel specifically said in script that her position meant she didn't date much, possibly why she was still all AUUGH ROBERT THIS IS SO SAD years later.  Nyssa apparently hasn't been with anyone other than Sara for years, and Sara was bouncing in and out of death and Oliver during that time. Tatsu apparently wasn't with anyone for five years, and then killed her husband.

 

I guess this is Arrow's way of telling us that a life filled with vigilantism, assassination, revenge, family drama, or just being Laurel can be hell on your social life. If you're a woman. Unless you're Lyla, proving once again that Lyla is better than most people on this show. 

[AyChihuahua]

I figure it's the same reason that when Oliver and Digg, or for that matter Sam and Dean Winchester or most other characters on a CW show, walk, basically, ANYWHERE, everything doesn't just stop so people can stare at them like morons. Bc despite SA's recent necklace-heavy beach pics, he's gorgeous, and if he, or DR, or CH, or EBR, or Willa Holland, worked at a regular job, everyone would be doing everything they could to interact with them.  And yeah, Felicity definitely would always have had buttloads of dudes after her, bc she is much more approachable than the rest of the characters.

[kismet]

For me its reasonable to think that guys were interested in FS and probably flirted with her but she was oblivious to their flirtations. Perhaps they were too intimidated to actually ask her and took her reaction to their flirting as non-interest.

I attribute OQs openness to Helena & McKenna more because of Dig & TQs encouragement to make connections.

I believe the original plan was for OQ to have multiple tech connections. The fact that he returned so much to FS I think was a byproduct of plot. We can retrofit the scenario to say that he had a connection to FS - which I think is true to canon and plot. But until FS was actually in the lair, I don't think their friendship had any bearings on OQs willingness to start making connections outside of Dig.

I love that OQ was willing to trust FS, but I must admit the more they show him having partners he trusts in the flashbacks the less special his initial response to trust FS was in retrospect. It's one of the reasons I hope he goes very cold & dark next year because I want to believe in the magic of the origin of the O/F partnership. Trust me I still love them together and think their relationship is magically, i just feel a little bit has been lost with how they wrote Ray & Poppy.

[way2interested]

It's always fun to get a new viewers take on the characters and relationships

This always makes me try to remember what I even thought about what was going on when I first even watched the show. I mean, I love all of the discussion now, and the post-analysis on things that I didn't even notice or think about first watch, but it's getting kind of hard for me to remember what I even thought in the first place from s1!

For instance, I only remember being really invested in Diggle and Oliver's relationship and, sadly, pushing Felicity to the side in my mind because I didn't want to get too invested in wanting her to be with Oliver because of his obvious thing with Laurel. I ended up missing a lot of their little moments in s1 because I was trying to squeeze them into this "will only be friends ever" box.

But, to keep in on the discussion now, I don't necessarily think that Oliver's trust in Diggle and Felicity is necessarily negated from these flashbacks. In the flashbacks, he's thrown together with these people, and the trust becomes more of an aspect for survival or an obligation to keep this person alive. For Diggle and Felicity, it's Oliver willingly choosing these people to become part of his life just simply based on character rather than for basic survival. Yes, he did approach them in life or death situations (when Diggle's life was in danger for Diggle or when his own life was in danger for Felicity), but he could have been closed off on them or even threatened them or profess about his dangerous lifestyle. He didn't. He, in a s1 Oliver way, welcomed them with open arms into the cave. He was even the one to argue for Felicity to stay on after Diggle suggested that it might be too dangerous.

Just because he's been shown to trust people before, I don't think that negates the kind of trust and relationships he initially made with Diggle and Felicity.

[bijoux]

For me its reasonable to think that guys were interested in FS and probably flirted with her but she was oblivious to their flirtations.

Yeah, I don't think it's out of the question that there were guys interested in Felicity, we just didn't see that since we only ever saw her in connection with Oliver and that was, prior to 1x14 during her work hours. Anything could be true and I don't believe we'll ever be told one way or the other. Honestly, the 'first guy who's noticed me in forever' has slipped my mind, but I can see her as being oblivious to that a bit. Maybe even somewhat willingly obtuse given what we find out about her in later seasons.

I love that OQ was willing to trust FS, but I must admit the more they show him having partners he trusts in the flashbacks the less special his initial response to trust FS was in retrospect. It's one of the reasons I hope he goes very cold & dark next year because I want to believe in the magic of the origin of the O/F partnership. Trust me I still love them together and think their relationship is magically, i just feel a little bit has been lost with how they wrote Ray & Poppy.

I don't mind Oliver seeking companionship in the past. I've said before, I think he's a very social person who needs company to thrive. Of course he's tried to isolate himself during the course of the show, but that's usually when he makes a complete mess of things because in my mind it goes against his basic nature and he's fighting himself. I need something dark next year since there has to be a reason for him wanting to do everything by himself when he comes back.

As for the Arrow ladies being attractive, I figure that's par for the course. They all are so it's expected. It's not like one of them is Cinderella and the others are ugly step sisters so someone sticks out. Gorgeous is their average.

[tarotx]

I enjoyed Felicity as a female friend. It didn't even occur to me that she would get with Oliver until Oliver was Jealous of Barry and then I knew they would go there. Diggle and Felicity are Oliver's family. Nothing in the Flashbacks show Oliver having that kind of relationship with anyone (not really even his blood family). 

[calliope1975]

 i just feel a little bit has been lost with how they wrote Ray & Poppy.

 

The one thing I absolutely will believe this year - when Oliver needs a Hail Mary in ep 22 and suddenly remembers Poppy, I will finally trust that he totally forgot about her and wasn't just holding back needed information that should be shared. All those other times were bullshit - the Mirakuru cure, the virus in Hong Kong, etc., but I have no problems believing that Oliver forgot Poppy's existence the minute he left the island. Again. For the 44th time.  

 

 

I can also see Felicity shutting down after Cooper and not noticing or being receptive to romantic advances. Or, maybe Cooper was an anomaly in her romantic life.

[quarks]

Oliver's definitely put a lot of trust into various people in the flashbacks - Slade, Shado, Sara, Maseo, Tatsu - but I'm not sure I'd include Poppy in that list. So far, he's saved her life because.....because....because....ok, let's assume there was a reason. Then he put her in a cave and didn't tell her what was going on and killed her brother and lied to her about that. And he refused to eat her lizard thing and refused to let her come with him to the ship. 

 

I can only see two points where Oliver has trusted Poppy: one, he trusted that she would stay in a cave, which since her alternative was getting shot by drug dealers, wasn't much of a stretch, and two, he trusted that she could give him deep sea diving advice, which directly led to a shark attacking him, suggesting that just maybe trusting her on that point wasn't the greatest idea.

 

Having said that, it's entirely possible that at some point, Oliver said to Poppy, "I trust you completely" and I missed it because, well, he said it to Poppy.

Edited December 28, 2015 by quarks

[Chaser]

Who's Poppy?

[looptab]

The lizard, or the shark, I'm not sure. :D

[quarks]

The lizard, or the shark, I'm not sure. :D

 

Unfair. The shark was actually kinda memorable! 

[looptab]

True.Then it must be the lizard!

[Morrigan2575]

Poppy Forever! I shall never refer to this character by any other name.

[AyChihuahua]

I wonder if any fans ship FB Oliver and Poppy. I mean, they have zero chemistry and Poppy looks old enough to be his mom, plus it's a flashback, so relationship does not have a lot of urgency, but it seems like there are fans of nearly every pairing.

[statsgirl]

It amazes me who people will ship. There are even Oliver/Leonard Snart fanfic out there.

I can also see Felicity shutting down after Cooper and not noticing or being receptive to romantic advances. Or, maybe Cooper was an anomaly in her romantic life.

She said she hadn't had a guy interested in her in years when she was talking about Barry being in a coma, and later commented that even in a coma he moved on from her when she heard about Iris sitting by his bedside.

 

Felicity was (is?) socially awkward so I can see that she didn't notice if a guy was interested in her. Add to that her main connections being with other IT guys, not known for having social skills themselves, and it's possible someone was interested but she wasn't aware of it.

 

Also she's brainy as well as beautiful and that's considered to be the most intimidating to a guy (or so we were told by Helen Gurley Brown) so I can see guys wanting to hit on her but not getting to the point..

[bijoux]

It amazes me who people will ship. There are even Oliver/Leonard Snart fanfic out there.

Do they even know of each other? I mean, it's fair to assume that they know of each other's existence, but has either of them acknowledged that on screen, something like Oliver commenting that he's grateful he doesn't have to deal with Snart's cold gun in his new suit?

[johntfs]

It amazes me who people will ship. There are even Oliver/Leonard Snart fanfic out there.

She said she hadn't had a guy interested in her in years when she was talking about Barry being in a coma, and later commented that even in a coma he moved on from her when she heard about Iris sitting by his bedside.

 

Felicity was (is?) socially awkward so I can see that she didn't notice if a guy was interested in her. Add to that her main connections being with other IT guys, not known for having social skills themselves, and it's possible someone was interested but she wasn't aware of it.

 

Also she's brainy as well as beautiful and that's considered to be the most intimidating to a guy (or so we were told by Helen Gurley Brown) so I can see guys wanting to hit on her but not getting to the point..

 

Of all the various single women on Arrow, probably the least intimidating would be Felicity.  Laurel's a crusading lawyer with a police officer dad.  Helena's the daughter of a mob boss.  Thea's a billionairess.  Joanna De La Vega is also a lawyer.  McKenna Hall is/was a cop.  Carly Diggle is a still-grieving single mother and that's just from the first season.  All of these women seem like they would have some level of "entrance qualification" where you'd need to impress them in some fairly significant way.

 

Felicity seems like somebody you could run into and talk about The Hobbit or Star Trek: Into Darkness and parley that into coffee or lunch and go from there.

[wonderwall]

Felicity can be intimidating as she's a certified genius that could make anyone seem incompetent idiots if she wanted to. Key words here are "if she wanted to". Felicity in general though is a warm, kind hearted, naive, accepting person which negates the intimidating factor to a lot of people. Not only that but her quirky/awkward personality also makes her seem less intimidating too. 

 

It says a lot about Felicity's character that she's the kind of person who'd eat in the PT cafeteria even though she's essentially everyone's boss. IMO I don't think Felicity wants to be viewed as intimidating unless she views someone as a threat, like Malcolm. 

Edited December 28, 2015 by wonderwall

[johntfs]

Of course my take on Felicity comes prior to Episode 14.  Granted that after that she remains a sweet, kind, pretty approachable person, but she is now pulled much more into Oliver's orbit.  Figure that it's highly likely that since Felicity is in his orbit, he's going to very closely guard against other people entering into her, um, orbit.  Honestly, it's highly possible that Oliver's previous visits had a chilling effect on Felicity's social prospects at work, like:

 

Guy1: "Felicity's hot and nerdy, I'm totally asking her out."

Guy2: "Don't be dumb.  The boss's kid, Oliver, is totally circling her.  Guy comes to IT a lot.  You make a move on her and you'll either get pinkslipped or transferred to a satellite office in Outer Beheadistan."

[AyChihuahua]

Of all the various single women on Arrow, probably the least intimidating would be Felicity.  Laurel's a crusading lawyer with a police officer dad.  Helena's the daughter of a mob boss.  Thea's a billionairess.  Joanna De La Vega is also a lawyer.  McKenna Hall is/was a cop.  Carly Diggle is a still-grieving single mother and that's just from the first season.  All of these women seem like they would have some level of "entrance qualification" where you'd need to impress them in some fairly significant way.

 

Felicity seems like somebody you could run into and talk about The Hobbit or Star Trek: Into Darkness and parley that into coffee or lunch and go from there.

Hey, I'm a lawyer, and I could talk about The Hobbit (the book, not the unnecessarily long films) and Star Trek/Wars all day long.

 

Lawyers get no love.

[wonderwall]

Hey, I'm a lawyer, and I could talk about The Hobbit (the book, not the unnecessarily long films) and Star Trek/Wars all day long.

 

Lawyers get no love.

 

Lol my husband is a Lawyer too and I've met a lot of his colleagues. tbh Lawyers aren't unapproachable. Laurel wasn't unapproachable because she's a lawyer, she was unapproachable because she, in season 1, was rather cold... She still is tbh. Nothing about her screams approachable (I mean look at how she holds herself always crossing her arms). She's a woman who, unlike Felicity, would rather seem intimidating (except for the few times she saved those kids - except in episode 9 when she used them to shield herself lol). 

Edited December 29, 2015 by wonderwall

[johntfs]

Hey, I'm a lawyer, and I could talk about The Hobbit (the book, not the unnecessarily long films) and Star Trek/Wars all day long.

 

Lawyers get no love.

 

Sure, but do you look like that's true?  Felicity kind of radiates her nerdiness like heat off a blast furnace

 

As far as Laurel goes, I've kind of been waiting for her eyes to go demon-black since she first showed up (She was Ruby on Supernatural).

Edited December 29, 2015 by johntfs

[statsgirl]

Would people have noticed that Oliver was circling her?  After their initial meeting, I can think of only two scenes where he came to consult her at QC:  about the Royal Flush gang; and the sports drink in the syringe.

Of all the various single women on Arrow, probably the least intimidating would be Felicity.  Laurel's a crusading lawyer with a police officer dad.  Helena's the daughter of a mob boss.  Thea's a billionairess.  Joanna De La Vega is also a lawyer.  McKenna Hall is/was a cop.  Carly Diggle is a still-grieving single mother and that's just from the first season.  All of these women seem like they would have some level of "entrance qualification" where you'd need to impress them in some fairly significant way.

 

Felicity seems like somebody you could run into and talk about The Hobbit or Star Trek: Into Darkness and parley that into coffee or lunch and go from there.

I think it depends on what kind of woman the guy was looking for.  Laurel and Helena are more intimidating but they're also trophies an alpha male would have gone after and not noticed Felicity.  Despite the Tommy/Felicity fanfic, I don't think Tommy would have wanted to date her if he could have had someone like Laurel.  Carly had eyes only for John Diggle.  Joanna and McKenna I see as more like Felicity.

 

We who know Felicity know how funny and smart she is but would men be attracted to her to date as opposed to be geeky with?   Maybe I'm projecting but I could always find guys who wanted to discuss sci fi or the problems they were having with their girlfriends, and then they would leave because they had a date with the cheerleader or the actress.   I wish I could remember who said it but in my youth there was a lot of truth in the saying "Pretty is what a woman would rather be than smart because men see better than they think."

[AyChihuahua]

Felicity was played early on as being quasi-average looking and nerdy, but...she ain't. EBR is very pretty and was very pretty from her first appearance. So IRL a pretty nerdy sweet early-20s woman would have tons of dudes after her. It's just a fact. I was pretty cute in my early 20s, nowhere near as cute or as sweet as EBR, and I had quite a few guys after me. She'd do very well.

 

I don't find KC at all attractive since she had bad plastic surgery post S1. I think Caity Lotz is very pretty, but Willa Holland is by far the most flat-out beautiful woman on the show.

Edited December 29, 2015 by AyChihuahua

[kismet]

Oliver's definitely put a lot of trust into various people in the flashbacks - Slade, Shado, Sara, Maseo, Tatsu - but I'm not sure I'd include Poppy in that list. So far, he's saved her life because.....because....because....ok, let's assume there was a reason. Then he put her in a cave and didn't tell her what was going on and killed her brother and lied to her about that. And he refused to eat her lizard thing and refused to let her come with him to the ship.

I can only see two points where Oliver has trusted Poppy: one, he trusted that she would stay in a cave, which since her alternative was getting shot by drug dealers, wasn't much of a stretch, and two, he trusted that she could give him deep sea diving advice, which directly led to a shark attacking him, suggesting that just maybe trusting her on that point wasn't the greatest idea.

Having said that, it's entirely possible that at some point, Oliver said to Poppy, "I trust you completely" and I missed it because, well, he said it to Poppy.

I might be projecting where they may take Poppy based upon TPTB discussion of who Poppy is and who she might be. There is definitely nothing in text that puts her on the same trust level he had with his other FB partners.

But it has bummed me that they brought in RP as oliver-lite and had FS so willing to trust his mission, just like she was so willing to help & join OQs mission. It has ruined some of the specialness of s1 O/F for me.

As for Poppy, I think they missed the boat so far with that character from premise, writing & casting - that its so painful to watch at this point I'm bummed that it ruined the whole FB this season & every on-show partnership OQ ever had. Because let's face it she brings nothing to the table. No special skills, no remarkable beauty, no connections. ... Nada.... even with LL at least for all the trouble she brings she still is beautiful to look at.

Edited December 29, 2015 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

But it has bummed me that they brought in RP as oliver-lite and had FS so willing to trust his mission, just like she was so willing to help & join OQs mission. It has ruined some of the specialness of s1 O/F for me.

 

  Felicity worked with Ray constantly for months until she felt he was a trusted friend and then he dropped his mission plan on her.  Felicity helped Oliver a handful of times over a couple months knowing he was bold faced lying to her and yet she felt she could turn to him and trust him with something that implicated his own mother in the abduction of Walter.  Then he showed up bleeding in her back seat and revealed he was a wanted murderer and yet she still trusted him.  Their relationship to me is plenty special. 

[way2interested]

I might be projecting where they may take Poppy based upon TPTB discussion of who Poppy is and who she might be. There is definitely nothing in text that puts her on the same trust level he had with his other FB partners.

But it has bummed me that they brought in RP as oliver-lite and had FS so willing to trust his mission, just like she was so willing to help & join OQs mission. It has ruined some of the specialness of s1 O/F for me.

As for Poppy, I think they missed the boat so far with that character from premise, writing & casting - that its so painful to watch at this point I'm bummed that it ruined the whole FB this season & every on-show partnership OQ ever had. Because let's face it she brings nothing to the table. No special skills, no remarkable beauty, no connections. ... Nada.... even with LL at least for all the trouble she brings she still is beautiful to look at.

*Continues to mourn the idea of Poppy being a negative influence on Oliver to bring him closer to his darker s1 self* Sigh, I'm done.

 

I've got the feeling that the writers got themselves wrapped up once again on plot points that they want executed vs. time and tools they have to execute them. They might have had this idea for Poppy that just never came into light due to their limited time for filming or writing while they try to focus on aspects of the plot that interest them more (I recall early on that either MG or WM admitted that NM was not supposed to appear too much in 4a, but that they started adding scenes for him because they liked writing for him so much, so far he's been in every episode for 4a except for 405 and 408, and even then he was in 208 of the Flash). Focusing time on one thing causes less time on another, s3 is a testament to that (they had this idea for Ra's, and began the execution in 304, but, because they were trying to do everything else, they had no room for him to come back into the plot until they absolutely needed him, 309 and 315, and his image as a villain greatly suffered because of it). At least in s3, I actually cared about the characters in the flashbacks, not the plot, but I liked the Yamashiros.

 

Like what was said earlier, there's still time for Poppy to become FB Oliver's love interest, but I do wonder what the writers intended her to be like at this point. I don't think Poppy completely ruined every partnership that Oliver's ever had, nor do I think that RP ruined Oliver and Felicity's relationship for me. Oliver doesn't seem to be in any such relationship with Poppy, and he doesn't even seem to like her very much. To me, he seems more like he feels responsible for her (as in a way he should, since he does find the need to protect her and yet lie to her about killing her brother), somewhat like in the way Maseo and Slade were responsible for him, or at least that's how I've been seeing them rather than trying to find a love story out of this. And even if Felicity put her undeserved trust in Ray, Oliver was still first. Oliver is the person who made her realize how she wants to help people using her skills. Helping Ray, or even Barry earlier in 104, came from her own experiences with Oliver, and she wouldn't exactly have the desire to trust or help them without already having met Oliver, so their relationship is still pretty special and important to me.