Heartaches, Bromances, True Love and Team Arrow: the Relationships Thread

[statsgirl]

Diggle is also older than her by probably 10 years or so, so that could have played into it. Whereas, OQ is closer to her in age.

I married someone 13 years older than I am so 10 years doesn't seem like much to me. But my point was that if it was only admiring the physique, Felicity would have been equally impressed by Diggle. I think Felicity was attracted to Oliver (even by his picture in the flashback) but considered him so far out of her league that her mind didn't even go there except in her fantasies.

 

For Oliver, it's not that she's out of his league (no one would have been to pre-island Ollie), but that she's out of his reach.  Like Sara, he seems himself as broken, someone who could only hurt the people around him if they get involved with him. That's why it was so easy with Sara, he couldn't break her any more because he had already done that, until he realized he could because she was thinking more permanently about their relationship (living together) than he was.

 

Oliver seemed to get over that this summer, the idea that Felicity could be hurt by being with him, until the restaurant got blown up and he decided that being happy meant he wasn't sharp enough to be The Arrow.

 

 

I think I'm also unsurprised that she didn't think Ray would need training. Not just because he's meant to have a supersuit, but because she encouraged inexperienced Laurel to fight. That and I think she wanted to keep her two lives separate.

I love Felicity but she can be too accepting.  She accepted Laurel's fighting skills at Laurel's evaluation, and she accepted Ray's superhero skills at his.

 

On the other hand, her acceptance is one reason Oliver cares for her.

[kismet]

I married someone 13 years older than I am so 10 years doesn't seem like much to me. But my point was that if it was only admiring the physique, Felicity would have been equally impressed by Diggle. I think Felicity was attracted to Oliver (even by his picture in the flashback) but considered him so far out of her league that her mind didn't even go there except in her fantasies.

 

For Oliver, it's not that she's out of his league (no one would have been to pre-island Ollie), but that she's out of his reach.  Like Sara, he seems himself as broken, someone who could only hurt the people around him if they get involved with him. That's why it was so easy with Sara, he couldn't break her any more because he had already done that, until he realized he could because she was thinking more permanently about their relationship (living together) than he was.

 

Oliver seemed to get over that this summer, the idea that Felicity could be hurt by being with him, until the restaurant got blown up and he decided that being happy meant he wasn't sharp enough to be The Arrow.

 

 

I love Felicity but she can be too accepting.  She accepted Laurel's fighting skills at Laurel's evaluation, and she accepted Ray's superhero skills at his.

 

On the other hand, her acceptance is one reason Oliver cares for her.

Very good points. Age is only a number :) The year spread I think only gets a little touch & go when you hit closer to the 15-20yr mark. Of course, it all depends on current age & lifestyle as well.

 

 I was just trying to think of reasons she might not have been attracted to Diggle. But honestly it boiled down to two things 1. Diggle was not shirtless often & 2. She was attracted to OQ. Personally, I find their physiques to be different. Diggle is very muscular & burly. While I find Oliver to be muscular but he is more lithe.

 

As for training Ray, if I was sending my guy out there to fight on the streets suit or no suit, he's getting some basic fight training. At least LL had trained w/ Ted Grant & taken self-defense classes (definitely not enough) but still more than Ray.

Edited April 14, 2015 by kismet

[apinknightmare]

She might not have been attracted to Diggle, because she just wasn't attracted to Diggle. Digg's got a nice body, and he's handsome, but I don't find him even in the same ballpark of handsome as Oliver. Other people might think opposite. Others might not find either one attractive at all.

Bottom line is, I don't think there has to be a reason. She was physically attracted to Oliver, and not to Diggle. Easy peasy.

[kismet]

IMO I feel like his feelings started to grow deeper after the undertaking when Diggle and Felicity went all the way to Lian Yu to get him back. I mean, here's a girl who is willing to risk her life in a shitty plane and sky dive (even though she hates heights) onto a remote island which may or may not be safe in order to bring this guy back. I think just knowing that changed Oliver's attitude towards her. It showed that Felicity would go really far for him, in a way that no other woman had before (not that he deserved it), and I think that it struck Oliver that this woman was different. 

 

At least, that's what I like to believe. 

He also was impressed with her willingness to stay behind in the undertaking & help dismantle the bomb with QL. I think it was gradual. I think he was always attracted to her (but that's not new for OQ). He just began to gradually see all the different sides of her which began to intrigue him. Then he gradually began to depend upon her. I think without knowing it he shifted how he needed her & that then changed his perspective on a lot of things.

 

Its liken Oliver's fall to Darcy's fall (minus the acrimonious beginning, OQ/FS had a charming beginning). But his answer to Elizabeth's question about when he fell in love in Pride & Prejudice - 'I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the look, or the words, which laid the foundation. It is too long ago. I was in the middle before I knew that I had begun.”

[Morrigan2575]

She might not have been attracted to Diggle, because she just wasn't attracted to Diggle. Digg's got a nice body, and he's handsome, but I don't find him even in the same ballpark of handsome as Oliver. Other people might think opposite. Others might not find either one attractive at all.

Bottom line is, I don't think there has to be a reason. She was physically attracted to Oliver, and not to Diggle. Easy peasy.

Opposite!  So, so Opposite. :D

 

Throw Slade/Manu in there at #2.  I really don't find SA to be all that, he's good looking but has no sex appeal at all (to me).  However, David Ramsey, Manu Bennet and hell even Jessie L Martin (beautiful smile, sexy voice) are way hotter, IMO than Oliver/SA.

 

Way back during SDCC 2013 EBR joked about the ship name for Diggle/Felicity and I was totally on board with it because yeah that would have been awesome and sweet.  However, i saw many of the same complaints brought up on TWOP (at the time).  David Ramsey was too old to play EBR's LI.  Too many years between Dig/Fel to go there on the show.  Plus quite a few comments that D/F totally eliminated O/F because D/O were "brothers" and wouldn't do that to each other.

 

Personally I never got the feeling that Felicity was crushing on Oliver.  I think fans and media pick up on specific tropes and try to apply them to Olicity and Felicity even though they don't really fit.  I've seen many fans and media reporters claim that Felicity was crushing on or harbored unrequited love for Oliver but that was never really shown in the show, closest I could see was the line in the Elevator Shaft.  However, that seemed to be more about physical attraction/fantasy than emotional (and to me crushing is emotional).   

Edited April 14, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[wonderwall]

Felicity probably found both Diggle and Oliver attractive, but in the end she had that connection with Oliver that she didn't with Diggle. Remember, she didn't interact with Diggle until she was actually a part of the team. Felicity put her trust in Oliver first, she got to know Oliver before she got to know Diggle. Maybe that's why she was attracted to Oliver over Diggle.

 

It's certainly a possibility.

 

OR. 

 

Felicity wasn't crushing on either. But as she got to know Diggle and Oliver more, she found that she and Diggle had more of a familial bond and she and Oliver had more of a 'something more' sort of thing going on there.. 

Edited April 14, 2015 by wonderwall

[Morrigan2575]

Felicity probably found both Diggle and Oliver attractive, but in the end she had that connection with Oliver that she didn't with Diggle. Remember, she didn't interact with Diggle until she was actually a part of the team. Felicity put her trust in Oliver first, she got to know Oliver before she got to know Diggle. Maybe that's why she was attracted to Oliver over Diggle.

 

It's certainly a possibility.

 

OR. 

 

Felicity wasn't crushing on either. But as she got to know Diggle and Oliver more, she found that she and Diggle had more of a familial bond and she and Oliver had more of a 'something more' sort of thing going on there.. 

In RL either is possible.  In the show, it was obviously written to form a stronger bond between O/F than F/D.  You can look at it either as the writers building a potential romantic relationship between Olicity. Or you could look at it as Oliver is the lead character, all relationships (especially in S1) tied directly back to him.  Or it could have been both.

[Password]

Eh. You can be attracted to someone and not want to be with them necessarily. I don't really think it was more complicated than that. Felicity's open appreciation of Oliver was one of the early things I loved about her.

[statsgirl]

It's a fictional show, I think they're making it up as they go along.  Wasn't it only late season 1 that they saw the chemistry between DR and AMA and decided to give Diggle an ex-wife, and then have them reconnect?

 

There is a whole continuum of feelings going from "nice bod" to "I care about this person". Wherever Felicity's feelings lie, I have trouble with the idea that she felt nothing more for Oliver than an objective appreciation of his body and "platonic" feelings.  Because whatever else, her "very platonic circumstances" were anything but.

Edited April 14, 2015 by statsgirl

[blixie]

Put me in the group that thinks David Ramsey is way way sexier than Stephen Amell, it's all bout the way that you use it. Stephen Amell is great to look at, and he seems like a sweet guy, but it is all in the way that you USE it, and David has that, SA does not, not as Oliver either. LIke I know why Lyla can't quit Diggle. 

 

But in terms of Felicity like Diggle is built, but he's not doing salmon ladders while she runs code, and wasn't he dating someone when she met him? And then quickly reconnecting with Lyla? I think he was just "taken" in her mind, and doesn't revel in carving up his body for a maniacal mission in the way Oliver was doing constantly in S1 (bless him) so her not ogling Diggle isn't really that mysterious.

Edited April 14, 2015 by blixie

[Chaser]

Suddenly I'm wondering what would have happened if Oliver Queen's bodygruard had ran that laptop to the IT department on his behalf...

[NumberCruncher]

I find both DR and SA very sexy but personally I think it comes down to the age difference of both the actors and characters. I think we're supposed to believe that Diggle is at least 10-15 years older than Oliver and therefore is able to play the older, wiser mentor role. That being the case, Diggle would be assumed to be around 15-20 years older than Felicity (since she's 4 or 5 years younger than Oliver) in which case a sexual Felicity/Diggle relationship starts to seem a bit odd. I'm not saying a large age difference is wrong per se, just that generally you don't see many 25 year old women on TV (like Felicity) lusting after men older than 40. If she was a bit older, I would imagine the situation might be different, but not in this case. I also think real-life bias is playing a part in my perception--especially given that DR is basically old enough to be EBR's dad, LOL.

[looptab]

Funny, I never got the impression of this huge age gap between Oliver and Diggle. Always thought Dig is 5, 7 years top older. 

[calliope1975]

I always guessed the characters were about the actor's age - though Felicity is aged up - so I figured they were all about 10 and 20 years apart from one another. Has there been any mention in show about Dig's age?

[nksarmi]

So speaking of Diggle and Oliver's age - does anyone have any idea what the age difference between Felicity and Ray is?  BR is 35 - I would think Ray should be that age since he's a CEO.  So doesn't that put him at 10 years older than Felicity?

[steeledwithakiss]

Ray does look so much older than her, but at the same time he doesn't strike me as someone who acts his age so it doesn't seem to be a problem for them. Oliver is 4 or 5 years older than her, and has all that experience (be it the island or his love affairs) but he's emotionally stunted so it evens out the difference too.

[Morrigan2575]

I find both DR and SA very sexy but personally I think it comes down to the age difference of both the actors and characters. I think we're supposed to believe that Diggle is at least 10-15 years older than Oliver and therefore is able to play the older, wiser mentor role. That being the case, Diggle would be assumed to be around 15-20 years older than Felicity (since she's 4 or 5 years younger than Oliver) in which case a sexual Felicity/Diggle relationship starts to seem a bit odd. I'm not saying a large age difference is wrong per se, just that generally you don't see many 25 year old women on TV (like Felicity) lusting after men older than 40. If she was a bit older, I would imagine the situation might be different, but not in this case. I also think real-life bias is playing a part in my perception--especially given that DR is basically old enough to be EBR's dad, LOL.

According to the character bio cards released in S2.

Diggle was 35

Felicity was 25

Roy was 22

Slade was 40

Thea was 18 (going on 19 since she turned 18 in S1)

Moira was 48

Laurel was 28

http://images.spoilertv.com/Arrow/Season%202/Misc/Character%20Profile%20Comic%20Sheets/

[dtissagirl]

Those character bio card things from season one had Diggle at 35 back then:

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=176234412514599

[Morrigan2575]

I thought they were S2 cards? SpoilerTV lists them as S2.

To keep this on topic, I never thought there was much of an age gap between Oliver/Felicity/Diggle more an experience gap.

The O/D relationship is built as one of people who have gone through similar life altering experiences, they're just at different stages.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

I don't know? That Facebook post is dated November 12, 2012, that's early S1.

[BkWurm1]

Its liken Oliver's fall to Darcy's fall (minus the acrimonious beginning, OQ/FS had a charming beginning). But his answer to Elizabeth's question about when he fell in love in Pride & Prejudice - 'I cannot fix on the hour, or the spot, or the look, or the words, which laid the foundation. It is too long ago. I was in the middle before I knew that I had begun.”

 

Can we just have more P&P quotes in general?  It really brightens the moment. 

[Morrigan2575]

I don't know? That Facebook post is dated November 12, 2012, that's early S1.

Yeah, that is. Guess they re-released them before S2. That was the first time I saw them.

Edited April 14, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[dtissagirl]

Can we just have more P&P quotes in general?  It really brightens the moment.

Well, it IS a truth universally acknowledged, that a single man in possession of a good fortune must be in want of a wife.

:)

[Morena]

How the Arrow writers have done right by Olicity

http://www.thetvjunkies.com/how-the-arrow-writers-have-done-right-by-olicity/

Edited April 14, 2015 by Morena

[Sunshine]

I sat through Flash tonight.  I really love Felicity & Barry's friendship.

[Chaser]

"Boom! Drop the Mic!"

Love the Barry and Felicity friendship. And Caitlin and Felicity. And Eddie and Felicity. And Iris and Felicity. And NotWells and Felicity. And Cisco and Felicity.

Edited to better fit the thread.

Edited April 15, 2015 by 10Eleven12

[wonderwall]

I'm adoring the Barry/Felicity friendship. :') Too bad those scenes amounted to like 5 minutes while the others were about propping up he who shall not be named

[Morrigan2575]

I think you're in the wrong thread

[wonderwall]

Really? My post was about felicitys relationship with Barry. I thought it was fitting. Granted I also used the post as a scapegoat to complain about the heavy propping in this episode but still I thought it was relevant :p

[Morrigan2575]

Really? My post was about felicitys relationship with Barry. I thought it was fitting. Granted I also used the post as a scapegoat to complain about the heavy propping in this episode but still I thought it was relevant :p

It was actually more towards the post from 10Eleven12, according to the post MostlyC made in the spoiler discussion thread

We have determined that for now:

Do you want discuss the Flash episode this week with Arrow Characters, then it belongs in the Mind Your Surroundings topic OR the individual character topic for that particular character (with spoiler bars if you feel it might be spoilery).

Other examples:

Do you want to talk about Laurel's development in what happens on the Flash Episode? Then it goes in the Laurel character topic.

If you want to talk Laurel and Cisco's scenes and interactions? It goes into the Flash Episode thread.

You want to talk about Wells? Or Barry and Iris: The Flash Thread.

Should you want to talk about the two shows coming together for the "Spinoff Kick Off," then it belongs in The Spinoff topic.

Please note that there is a whole Flash Episode Topic and Thread in The Flash Topic where most conversation about The Flash episode should occur. It does not need to be discussed at length here on the Arrow forum.

Edited April 15, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[lemotomato]

I just saw gifs of the scene where Ray explains that he bought the company Felicity worked for so she was forced to work for him, and she comments that it's not as creepy as it sounds. Really? Because when it happened she read him the riot act for being a stalker. 

 

I just don't understand what the writers are doing. Are they lampshading people's criticism of Raylicity, or do they really believe that they're perfect for each other and having Felicity and everyone point that out makes it true?

 

And third-ing the love for Felicity and Barry's friendship. It just come across so naturally. 

Edited April 15, 2015 by lemotomato

[MostlyC]

Felicity's interactions with Cisco On the Flash does not belong here.  It belongs in the Flash Episode Discussion.

 

 

 

Further off topic posts will disappear in a......Flash

[statsgirl]

I just don't understand what the writers are doing. Are they lampshading people's criticism of Raylicity, or do they really believe that they're perfect for each other and having Felicity and everyone point that out makes it true?

I hope they are lampshading it. But then, they had Ray say twice that he never kept secrets from Felicity (317 and 118) and we know that he's been keeping things from her from the first time they met.

[TanyaKay]

Guggenheim said sometime last year that there is no way Laurel was getting canary cry but she is getting it in next episode of The Flash. So I think Guggs has modeled Ray after himself, a lying man who lies. He says that he has not hidden anything from Felicity but we know he did not even tell her about his suit working or his intentions of buying QC in the first place.

Ray Palmer and Marc Guggenheim are both Lying Liars who LIE.

[kismet]

So for those of you that liked my Pride & Prejudice quote above. Somebody went ahead & put a tumblr gifset to it. I don't know if I should be flattered or little miffed. Most likely I will just appreciate the harmony & kismet of the fandom that so many of us have similar reference points & ideas. It really is kinda beautiful that so many of ideas orbit around each other and intersect without us ever really intentionally trying. Of course you can never really go wrong with Jane Austen, wish they would have credited the quote in the gif tho :)

 

http://smoakandarrow.tumblr.com/post/116407996194/ilarina-but-what-could-set-you-off-in-the-first

[ostentatious]

Unless something happens other than what we know, she's just getting a wearable version of Sara's device. People who were bugging Marc about her getting the CC wanted her to actually get the CC.

[Carrie Ann]

I've seen a few gifsets with the P&P quote over the years, from different fandoms, so I wouldn't be miffed, @kismet. I liked the one you linked though--very pretty editing job.

[kismet]

I've seen a few gifsets with the P&P quote over the years, from different fandoms, so I wouldn't be miffed, @kismet. I liked the one you linked though--very pretty editing job.

Miffed at myself (more so than anyone else) that I didn't think of doing it myself... Well actually, more like I've haven't spent the time to learn how to do them & fanvids. Perhaps, its almost time to figure it out :)

[looptab]

So, so glad that Felicity brought up the ridiculous excuses Oliver made when they first met. I've been waiting for her to share her side of that time. And in my head it went more or less as it did, same wistful smile and you couldn't ignore the *affection* if you tried. 

[Danny Franks]

I just saw gifs of the scene where Ray explains that he bought the company Felicity worked for so she was forced to work for him, and she comments that it's not as creepy as it sounds. Really? Because when it happened she read him the riot act for being a stalker. 

 

Hmm. If you have to qualify something by saying, 'it's not as creepy as it sounds', it generally is as creepy as it sounds.

 

Seems like trolling from the writers, who apparently have taken umbrage that the audience haven't embraced their latest life-size action figure. Poking fun at the criticism the character has received is a really childish, petty way of trying to get your point across. Andrew Marlowe, of Castle infamy, was often guilty of this sort of crap too.

 

Anyway, the idea of being in a relationship where you have to say, 'but it's not creepy! Honest!' is just weird to me. I don't understand how it's meant to be viewed at all. Like I've said before, they seem to be trying to use Felicity to validate Ray (because getting into her pants makes him a hero worthy of supporting, apparently), while also using Ray to highlight that Felicity is making the wrong choice of man. Two conflicting story elements that just don't work together. Could Ray be an awesome guy but still the wrong romantic choice for Felicity? Sure. Of course he could. But that would take writers with more skill than these guys appear to have.

[quarks]

The "It's not as creepy as it sounds" was one of several odd "introducing Ray" moments over on Flash. I can see why they put it in, though: it was a follow up to Iris' "So, how did you two meet?" question, which is pretty standard when you're meeting a friend's boyfriend for the first time, and they were trying to put it into the honesty theme over on Flash - Felicity, who was advocating not telling Iris the truth (but yet had no problems telling Ray, without asking Barry, even though she didn't tell Oliver about Ray or vice versa, sigh), was the one telling the not exactly a lie that she and Ray met at work, which led to Ray, who was later advocating telling the full truth in all relationships, and not keeping secrets, telling the full truth about how they met.

 

So it was used more to highlight the Eddie/Iris and Barry/Iris and secret keeping stuff than to say much of anything about Felicity/Ray, and from Routh's delivery, was meant to be funny. So I can see all of that. Unfortunately, it also served to remind Arrow readers once again that Ray can be dangerously controlling, and alerted Flash viewers that Ray will just buy things in order to control a situation. This also happened about two minutes after the reveal that Ray had rented out an entire French restaurant for just the five of them - cancelling the plans of anyone else who had waited months to get a table there - a point made in the script - which didn't help.  And it didn't help that my immediate question was, if the guy has enough money to pull stunts like this and buy large companies with a snap of his fingers, why does he need a suit?  

 

So I don't think that anyone came off looking good at that dinner, but the whole "it's not as creepy as it sounds," just reminded me all over again that Ray is creepy, or at least started out creepy.  And it was another tiny tap against the Felicity/Ray relationship - Ray's all "share all secrets"  (not that you did, Ray, I was watching the show but let us move on) and Felicity's all "keep secrets."  And I also couldn't help but notice that, although I realize this was for plot reasons and to move the episode along, Felicity, who in her last Flash crossover refused to tell Oliver's secret, in this Flash crossover, happily revealed Barry's secret to Ray (though, to be fair, it was clear that Barry didn't care, and apparently only cares about not telling Iris) and Laurel's secret to Barry. Laurel and Barry have met for all of 30 seconds.   So yeah, so although Felicity was thankfully back to the humor last night and had that awesome moment of nearly orgasming over her keyboard and then the dropped mic bit, it wasn't exactly something that made me like the Felicity/Ray relationship more. In fact, I ended the episode back to shipping Barry and Felicity again.

 

(Sorry, Oliver/Felicity shippers, but if Arrow has taught us anything, it's that I'm very fickle. Watch me change my mind again tonight!)

[wonderwall]

(Sorry, Oliver/Felicity shippers, but if Arrow has taught us anything, it's that I'm very fickle. Watch me change my mind again tonight!)

-side eyes- you'll be back :p

[Chaser]

If they insist on a love triangle, Barry/Felicity/Oliver would have been perfect. Its believable on both sides. Since Barry is in Central City, it wouldn't have pulled Felicity away from Team Arrow. It would be a built in set-up for Felicity to make a couple appearances on Flash and Barry could have popped over to Starling City for a couple episodes. Throw in a couple phone calls, a few video chats and you're done. 

 

It would have worked so much better for the 'perfect on paper' trope. They have the chemistry, personality and build up to actually be a legit threat. 

[Danny Franks]

.This also happened about two minutes after the reveal that Ray had rented out an entire French restaurant for just the five of them - cancelling the plans of anyone else who had waited months to get a table there - a point made in the script - which didn't help.  And it didn't help that my immediate question was, if the guy has enough money to pull stunts like this and buy large companies with a snap of his fingers, why does he need a suit?  

 

Wait, really? He did that? What a colossal asshole. I'm sorry but if anyone I was planning on dining with did something that selfish and grandstanding, I'd cancel my plans instantly. Hire out an empty restaurant? Sure. It's douchey, but whatever, let the guy have his big, dick-swinging moment. Actually force people who have prior bookings to cancel simply by flashing around more cash than they have? Ugh. What repellent behaviour. But I'm sure it was supposed to be charming and dashing and innocently oblivious to normal human behaviour.

 

Still, how could that not immediately make all of Felicity's new friends hate him and question her taste?

[NumberCruncher]

The "It's not as creepy as it sounds" was one of several odd "introducing Ray" moments over on Flash. I can see why they put it in, though: it was a follow up to Iris' "So, how did you two meet?" question, which is pretty standard when you're meeting a friend's boyfriend for the first time, and they were trying to put it into the honesty theme over on Flash - Felicity, who was advocating not telling Iris the truth (but yet had no problems telling Ray, without asking Barry, even though she didn't tell Oliver about Ray or vice versa, sigh), was the one telling the not exactly a lie that she and Ray met at work, which led to Ray, who was later advocating telling the full truth in all relationships, and not keeping secrets, telling the full truth about how they met.

 

So it was used more to highlight the Eddie/Iris and Barry/Iris and secret keeping stuff than to say much of anything about Felicity/Ray, and from Routh's delivery, was meant to be funny. So I can see all of that. Unfortunately, it also served to remind Arrow readers once again that Ray can be dangerously controlling, and alerted Flash viewers that Ray will just buy things in order to control a situation. This also happened about two minutes after the reveal that Ray had rented out an entire French restaurant for just the five of them - cancelling the plans of anyone else who had waited months to get a table there - a point made in the script - which didn't help.  And it didn't help that my immediate question was, if the guy has enough money to pull stunts like this and buy large companies with a snap of his fingers, why does he need a suit?  

 

So I don't think that anyone came off looking good at that dinner, but the whole "it's not as creepy as it sounds," just reminded me all over again that Ray is creepy, or at least started out creepy.  And it was another tiny tap against the Felicity/Ray relationship - Ray's all "share all secrets"  (not that you did, Ray, I was watching the show but let us move on) and Felicity's all "keep secrets."  And I also couldn't help but notice that, although I realize this was for plot reasons and to move the episode along, Felicity, who in her last Flash crossover refused to tell Oliver's secret, in this Flash crossover, happily revealed Barry's secret to Ray (though, to be fair, it was clear that Barry didn't care, and apparently only cares about not telling Iris) and Laurel's secret to Barry. Laurel and Barry have met for all of 30 seconds.   So yeah, so although Felicity was thankfully back to the humor last night and had that awesome moment of nearly orgasming over her keyboard and then the dropped mic bit, it wasn't exactly something that made me like the Felicity/Ray relationship more. In fact, I ended the episode back to shipping Barry and Felicity again.

 

(Sorry, Oliver/Felicity shippers, but if Arrow has taught us anything, it's that I'm very fickle. Watch me change my mind again tonight!)

No judgments from me--Barry and Felicity are all kinds of adorable. That's why I'll always scratch my head when I hear people talk about how Ray's getting unfair criticism because people can't get over their Oliver/Felicity bias. I've never had a problem with the idea of Felicity with Barry. Why? Because in addition to the fact that GG has good chemistry with EBR, Barry has always treated Felicity with complete respect. No stalking, controlling, showing up unannounced, flinging money around, etc. was involved. In fact, even though I preferred Oliver and Felicity, I had no expectation they would ever be a thing back in the S2 days (due to the apparent obsession with canon in comic book adaptations), so Barry was a welcomed flirtation in my mind.

I'll just echo what everyone else has already said here re: how Felicity and Ray met but also add that it's interesting that it was not truly how they met. They met first as a result of Ray first showing up at Felicity's place of employment, using her knowledge to then hack into the QC database, and then using said information to buy QC out from under Oliver. All that happened well before Ray bought the company Felicity worked for. To me, that all is way worse than the story they used on The Flash.

[KenyaJ]

But I'm sure it was supposed to be charming and dashing and innocently oblivious to normal human behaviour.

 

They had the good sense to have Felicity seem uneasy and a bit embarrassed about it. I was shocked.

 

 

No judgments from me--Barry and Felicity are all kinds of adorable. That's why I'll always scratch my head when I hear people talk about how Ray's getting unfair criticism because people can't get over their Oliver/Felicity bias. I've never had a problem with the idea of Felicity with Barry. Why? Because in addition to the fact that GG has good chemistry with EBR, Barry has always treated Felicity with complete respect. No stalking, controlling, showing up unannounced, flinging money around, etc. was involved. In fact, even though I preferred Oliver and Felicity, I had no expectation they would ever be a thing back in the S2 days (due to the apparent obsession with canon in comic book adaptations), so Barry was a welcomed flirtation in my mind.

 

This! Oliver and Felicity are my OTP, but I've loved Barry and Felicity together since "The Scientist," and if they'd become an actual couple, I would've been totally down with it (while I continued to wait for Olicity, of course). That's why I hate it so much when people resort to the "You just hate Ray because you're a shipper" argument. I liked Barry, Helena, McKenna, and Sara. My reasons for hating Ray have nothing to do with shipping Olicity and everything to do with Ray himself.

Edited April 15, 2015 by KenyaJ

[nksarmi]

-side eyes- you'll be back :p

Anytime Barry and Felicity are on screen together - I want them together, together.  I'm sorry, but I like her better with him than Oliver. And I like her WAY better than Iris with Barry.  In fact, I might be on an anti-Barry/Iris ship.

[quarks]

Wait, really? He did that? What a colossal asshole. I'm sorry but if anyone I was planning on dining with did something that selfish and grandstanding, I'd cancel my plans instantly. Hire out an empty restaurant? Sure. It's douchey, but whatever, let the guy have his big, dick-swinging moment. Actually force people who have prior bookings to cancel simply by flashing around more cash than they have? Ugh. What repellent behaviour. But I'm sure it was supposed to be charming and dashing and innocently oblivious to normal human behaviour.

 

Still, how could that not immediately make all of Felicity's new friends hate him and question her taste?

 

He really did that.  Worse, he did that for a dinner where the entire purpose was to try to reassure Iris - and, to a much lesser extent, introduce Ray to Eddie and allow Barry and Ray to get to know each other.

 

To their genuine credit, all of the other four actors managed to convey shock and disapproval of this, and Felicity even said something. It clearly left Iris a bit unsettled - great job reassuring everyone there, Ray - but to her credit, Iris tried to steer things back into a normal direction with the "How did you two meet?" which then led to the revelation that all of the guys at the table were controlling bastards and clearly, Felicity and Iris needed to run off and have sexy times together in Fiji.

 

Ok, I made up the last bit. But between Ray buying out the whole restaurant and cheerfully admitting to buying our Felicity's company and forcing her to work for him; Eddie refusing to tell the truth to Iris, and Barry refusing to tell the truth to Cisco, Caitlin, Ray and (until she pushed the issue) Felicity, I had definite vibes of controlling men there.

[wonderwall]

Anytime Barry and Felicity are on screen together - I want them together, together.  I'm sorry, but I like her better with him than Oliver. And I like her WAY better than Iris with Barry.  In fact, I might be on an anti-Barry/Iris ship.

Lmao that's fine. I was talking to Quarks about that :p I honestly just really love their friendship. I hope it stays that way. Not because I ship Oliver/Felicity or anything, I just think that Barry is a good friend to Felicity and I think she needs that. They both get each other, they're pretty much platonic soulmates :p Also count me in on not liking Barry/Iris at all. I jumped off that ship the second they kissed. 

[Chaser]

If I didn't ship Olicity, I would be all over Oliver/Sara and Felicity/Barry. Which I guess highights how much I prefer opposites attract because you could exchange the / for an = with the other pairings.