S08.E16: I Was Feeling Epic

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, doram said:

But she died an old retired lady doctor. Possibly, she outlived her vampire hunter brother but statistically, Jeremy was more likely to die before her. Still it would have been a downer to see Jeremy there. 

 

? agree that the show should have ended On Elena but this is the Damon Diaries. Of  course his death ends the series. 

Yeah I just assumed them being "young" when they died was just because that's how they wanted to look when they died or aka that's how the viewers wanted to remember them. 

[neptunewaves]

14 hours ago, KatWay said:

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The OTH situation was also made worse by the fact that Chad Michael Murray pretty publicly cheated on Bush and then five minutes after the divorce rebounded with a teenage extra on the show who was also always around for Bush to see. I give her a lot of credit for trying to be professional under those circumstances.

 

And let's not forget that inspired mini-arc with a highly intoxicated Brooke cheating on Lucas, then practically begging him for forgiveness while he got to act all high and mighty. It was revolting, to say the least.

The more I think about TVD's finale, the more bitter I am. I've shipped Steroline since season TWO and getting to see them become canon, wedding and all, only for him to bite it less than 24hs after felt a lot like fan pandering of the worst kind. I couldn't even enjoy Delena being endgame, much less the tasteless Klaroline's nod (and I've always had a soft spot for those two! Awesome job, show!). There wasn't ANY reason to justify offing one of their leads other than Kevin Williamson's inability to write a solid enough ending without randomely killing some main character to make it "edgy" (it wasn't cute fourteen years ago, and it STILL does not make a finale more meaningful, pal). And I still can't believe they couldn't be bothered to squeeze in at least ONE proper goodbye scene between the just married, Stefan watching over her- anything. 

Stefan deserved better. Caroline sure as hell deserved better, too.

[Lady Calypso]

10 hours ago, neptunewaves said:

Stefan deserved better. Caroline sure as hell deserved better, too.

Agreed. I don't like Klaroline, and I probably never will, but I hated that Caroline's last scene included Klaus' letter. It just kind of gives the show a reason to go that route at some point for The Originals series finale or if they get renewed for another season. The fact that Caroline's last scene couldn't have just been about her, much like how Bonnie's last scene needed Enzo for some reason. Again, I'm not a shipper of Bonnie/Enzo either so it left a sour taste in my mouth that he needed to be there "looking over her" until she would inevitably die and reunite with him. I would have hoped that Bonnie would move on from Enzo and realize that one guy she dated for two years isn't the endgame for her. 

And I totally get why they added all these dead family members/friends/love interests scenes, so the Bonnie/Enzo scene made sense. I just didn't really like it. But I completely acknowledge that I have a biased opinion, so it's not like I'm being really objective here, since I liked Jo showing up to watch over Alaric and her girls. 

[Aeryn13]

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so for me the last scene should have been Elena reuniting with her family.But whatever,I had no problem with the finale even though I'm no delena fan.I just hate Ian's acting in the whole episode ,He didn't move me once.,not with Paul, not with Nina, not with Candice..he was off

I disagree with that. Yes, Elena was the female lead for the first six Seasons and pretty much the lynchpin of the triangle and the plotlines for at least the first three to five Seasons. However, the pivotal moment of the Finale was for me the reunion between the brothers. Stefan`s story bookended the show in a way and I found it totally fitting that the "hello brother" was the final line and final scene. If it had been Elena`s family reunion, I would have gone: WTF?

Also disagree on Ian`s acting in this episode overall. Yes, he fell down during the real-time Delena moments but I thought his scene with Paul, with the compulsion, was one of the best he did in the entirety of the show. I also really liked the scene with Candice. It was sweet for me. And I had no problems with his interactions with Katherine so the problem wasn`t him and Nina onscreen per se. 

[imaneassi]

Elena,like her or not  was the heart and the soul of the show for 6 years.Everything was about her The brothers relationship was only the focus for the last 2 seasons.The last scene should have been Elena reuniting with her family and right before it, Defan reuniting.This is not supernatural, the brother's relationship wasn't the focus of the show till Nina left.

[Aeryn13]

I don`t dislike Elena at all, I just prefer the final scene to be Defan and thought that was the approriate ending. So, agree to disagree.   

[imaneassi]

13 minutes ago, Aeryn13 said:

I don`t dislike Elena at all, I just prefer the final scene to be Defan and thought that was the approriate ending. So, agree to disagree.   

It's not the appropriated ending since the show started and  was about Elena, losing her parents, feeling dead inside, falling for 2 vampire brothers, Elena losing her whole family.And it should have ended  the last scene, with Elena reuniting with her family.But JP kisses Ian's a...from day one,so no surprise here,Now Defan fans got what they wanted but no, it's not the appropriate ending,not storywise

[Aeryn13]

It is simply my opinion that the ending we got was approriate for the show overall. I don`t seek to change anyone`s mind but I`m not gonna change my mind on this either. IMO this is a preference thing, nothing that can be claimed as fact either way.  

[ComeWhatMay]

13 hours ago, neptunewaves said:

And let's not forget that inspired mini-arc with a highly intoxicated Brooke cheating on Lucas, then practically begging him for forgiveness while he got to act all high and mighty. It was revolting, to say the least.

The more I think about TVD's finale, the more bitter I am. I've shipped Steroline since season TWO and getting to see them become canon, wedding and all, only for him to bite it less than 24hs after felt a lot like fan pandering of the worst kind. I couldn't even enjoy Delena being endgame, much less the tasteless Klaroline's nod (and I've always had a soft spot for those two! Awesome job, show!). There wasn't ANY reason to justify offing one of their leads other than Kevin Williamson's inability to write a solid enough ending without randomely killing some main character to make it "edgy" (it wasn't cute fourteen years ago, and it STILL does not make a finale more meaningful, pal). And I still can't believe they couldn't be bothered to squeeze in at least ONE proper goodbye scene between the just married, Stefan watching over her- anything. 

Stefan deserved better. Caroline sure as hell deserved better, too.

I didn't watch it, but based on what I see here, that's almost sadistic on the part of the OTH writers to have Bush act that out. It feels like they were trying to make a point with her. I read about the situation in the press at the time (CMM with Paris Hilton, what Bush did & did not know prior to marrying CMM about his ways, Kenzie Dalton, the extra, Kenzie's rumored abortion, "Dirty Dan", etc.) & I thought Bush did well throughout/head held high... Writers & actors are human so I get having favorites. Plec looked out for Damon in the finale, Williamson should have looked out for Stefan. Knowing what I know now, Stefan's fate amounts to a tantrum on Williamson's part. I know Ian did not want Damon & Elena to wind up together (I also believe that feeling predates Somerhalder's break-up with Dobrev) -- perhaps some folks picked-up on that in his performance... I didn't, but it doesn't mean it wasn't there.

[imaneassi]

1 minute ago, ComeWhatMay said:

I didn't watch it, but based on what I see here, that's almost sadistic on the part of the OTH writers to have Bush act that out. It feels like they were trying to make a point with her. I read about the situation in the press at the time (CMM with Paris Hilton, what Bush did & did not know prior to marrying CMM about his ways, Kenzie Dalton, the extra, Kenzie's rumored abortion, "Dirty Dan", etc.) & I thought Bush did well throughout/head held high... Writers & actors are human so I get having favorites. Plec looked out for Damon in the finale, Williamson should have looked out for Stefan. Knowing what I know now, Stefan's fate amounts to a tantrum on Williamson's part. I know Ian did not want Damon & Elena to wind up together (I also believe that feeling predates Somerhalder's break-up with Dobrev) -- perhaps some folks picked-up on that in his performance... I didn't, but it doesn't mean it wasn't there.

Nina didn't want a delena endgame,that didn't keep her from doing her job and be professional,Unlike Ian

[Aeryn13]

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Plec looked out for Damon in the finale, Williamson should have looked out for Stefan. Knowing what I know now, Stefan's fate amounts to a tantrum on Williamson's part. 

Normally, going out the big hero - MVP is debatable, that should more rightly go to Bonnie and the Bennett witches - of the Series Finale wouldn`t be a bad ending for a character. Believe me, there are some of my favourite characters on still ongoing shows where I can only hope and wish they get such a good ending.

However, the nature of this Finale was such that, peace in afterlife notwithstanding, everyone else got happy endings or at least happy somethings before afterlife. They got chances to live a life and find new joy. Like, sure, Bonnie might have prefered being with Enzo overall but at least she gave this life a chance, she adopted a new outlook and put herself out there. Alaric had a wistful moment, obviously seeing/imagining Jo watching over him but his children gave him joy in the here and now. Caroline was also still sad but also determined and apparently fulfilled by the school and there was some hint of past/new romance. Delena had a happy life together. Even Matt got a bench and wanted to be mayor.

Stefan got his final joy in the afterlife when meeting Damon again. But he didn`t get any of the in-between. Try to live a human life with Caroline and see how it fits. If it had been a mix between more characters dying and finding their peace in the afterlife vs. others finding happiness in life, it would have been one thing. If not everyone had been happy in either realm, it would have been one thing. But giving everyone a happy end - and then a happy end in paradise - vs. giving only Stefan just the second makes it unbalanced.

The only reason that didn`t come through as starkly in the episode was the rushed nature of basically the epilogue. Stefan was dead and we got a quick montage and some narration and presto, Elena and Damon were bad. Because they still looked young, it made it seem like they died roughly five minutes after Stefan. The dialogue tells us this isn`t the case but it feels like it.

Like I said, if they wanted to go schmaltzy, and the afterlife ending certainly is, they could have gone all the way and gave Stefan his in-between happy before the final happy as well. So much handwaving was done, I wouldn`t have batted an eyelash at Bonnie figuring out how to multiply the cure or keep Stefan from aging or whatnot.                 

[dreamcatcher]

5 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Agreed. I don't like Klaroline, and I probably never will, but I hated that Caroline's last scene included Klaus' letter. It just kind of gives the show a reason to go that route at some point for The Originals series finale or if they get renewed for another season. The fact that Caroline's last scene couldn't have just been about her, much like how Bonnie's last scene needed Enzo for some reason. Again, I'm not a shipper of Bonnie/Enzo either so it left a sour taste in my mouth that he needed to be there "looking over her" until she would inevitably die and reunite with him. I would have hoped that Bonnie would move on from Enzo and realize that one guy she dated for two years isn't the endgame for her. 

I liked the letter scene, even though it was again a bait and not good storytelling. But had they not given her that, we would have Caroline spending eternity alone. I'm still so so so bitter over this, because I just don't get how Caroline could be so calm about this and why she would say that they're going to see him again so yeah ok let's move on. She won't. She will end up alone and I guess we can imagine that she'll find love again -which is what one of the producers actually said. I think it was Plec but I'm not sure. Anyway, in that interview they said that just like Stefan found again love in Caroline after Elena, we can assume that Caroline will find someone else to. Well, I hated that. I've never been completely supportive of Steroline as couple (as I loved them as friends), but after everything that Caroline went through, after starting her character off by saying that she's never anyone's first choice, you make her fall in love with her best friend, marry him and act like that weren't each other's true love... that's harsh. But even if she does find love again, and even if we had the time to see her happy again, it wouldn't feel as real to us as an audience.

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I disagree with that. Yes, Elena was the female lead for the first six Seasons and pretty much the lynchpin of the triangle and the plotlines for at least the first three to five Seasons. However, the pivotal moment of the Finale was for me the reunion between the brothers. Stefan`s story bookended the show in a way and I found it totally fitting that the "hello brother" was the final line and final scene. If it had been Elena`s family reunion, I would have gone: WTF?

I think that if the finale was in S6 or Nina had stayed until the end, having Elena's reunion as the final moment would be more appropriate. But they spent two years focusing on the brothers, the whole episode had them trying to save each other and Elena was a tiny part of it so Defan reunion being the last scene I think makes sense in that context.

2 hours ago, ComeWhatMay said:

I didn't watch it, but based on what I see here, that's almost sadistic on the part of the OTH writers to have Bush act that out. It feels like they were trying to make a point with her. I read about the situation in the press at the time (CMM with Paris Hilton, what Bush did & did not know prior to marrying CMM about his ways, Kenzie Dalton, the extra, Kenzie's rumored abortion, "Dirty Dan", etc.) & I thought Bush did well throughout/head held high... Writers & actors are human so I get having favorites. Plec looked out for Damon in the finale, Williamson should have looked out for Stefan. Knowing what I know now, Stefan's fate amounts to a tantrum on Williamson's part. I know Ian did not want Damon & Elena to wind up together (I also believe that feeling predates Somerhalder's break-up with Dobrev) -- perhaps some folks picked-up on that in his performance... I didn't, but it doesn't mean it wasn't there.

The thing is that Ian was super supportive of Delena in the beginning. He only started opposing it after their break up and mostly, right before and after Nina's exit. Which is ridiculous and I'm not sure if it's really because he didn't want to act it out with Nina or because he loves Kat and wanted to work with her, but at that point it was pretty obvious that they couldn't make Elena switch brothers again in the finale out of the blue. I don't care why he decided that Delena wasn't working anymore, but it was too late in the game for him to be openly opposing his character's arc.

[imaneassi]

5 minutes ago, dreamcatcher said:

.

I think that if the finale was in S6 or Nina had stayed until the end, having Elena's reunion as the final moment would be more appropriate. But they spent two years focusing on the brothers, the whole episode had them trying to save each other and Elena was a tiny part of it so Defan reunion being the last scene I think makes sense in that context.

 

I disagree. The brothers relationship was the focus only for 2 seasons when Elena was for 6.And no one said that the brothers reunion shouldn't happen but it sure shouldn't be the last scene of the series because the series wasn't about their relationship

[ketose]

Instead of Lost, I would have enjoyed if the show ended like Cold Case. Everyone Damon killed looking on as he goes to jail / hell.

[dreamcatcher]

40 minutes ago, imaneassi said:

I disagree. The brothers relationship was the focus only for 2 seasons when Elena was for 6.And no one said that the brothers reunion shouldn't happen but it sure shouldn't be the last scene of the series because the series wasn't about their relationship

Well I agree with you that Elena was the focus on the show and I did give up on it after season 6, only returning for the final two episodes. But they tried too hard to save the show by saying that it was always about Defan. And those who did stay for those last 2 years I'm sure appreciated the Defan final scene. The thing is, as a viewer who still thinks of Elena as the main character of tvd, it makes sense that I would want Elena to have the final scene. However, she was gone for two years. She only came back for one episode (which was a mistake imo) and they didn't even make a big fuss about it. They took the focus away from Elena and that's why they did it. Plus, this episode was all about using familiar phrases from past seasons so I get why they wanted to finish off the series with the "hello brother" line.

Btw, I wanted more of Elena in general. After 6 seasons of misery, I wanted at least a few happy scenes for her. 

[imaneassi]

16 minutes ago, dreamcatcher said:

Well I agree with you that Elena was the focus on the show and I did give up on it after season 6, only returning for the final two episodes. But they tried too hard to save the show by saying that it was always about Defan. And those who did stay for those last 2 years I'm sure appreciated the Defan final scene. The thing is, as a viewer who still thinks of Elena as the main character of tvd, it makes sense that I would want Elena to have the final scene. However, she was gone for two years. She only came back for one episode (which was a mistake imo) and they didn't even make a big fuss about it. They took the focus away from Elena and that's why they did it. Plus, this episode was all about using familiar phrases from past seasons so I get why they wanted to finish off the series with the "hello brother" line.

Btw, I wanted more of Elena in general. After 6 seasons of misery, I wanted at least a few happy scenes for her. 

I guess you missed the big fuss they made about her return before and after the confirmation. It doesn't matter that Nina left. I'm talking storywise it should have been Elena's scene the last one

[formerlyfreedom]

It's fine to agree to disagree, and then to move on. Please do so.

[ketose]

There's two kind of conflict in these shows. Either you have a freak of the week which are all about the same level of bad, or you do a big bag who has to be bigger and badder than the one from the previous season. This season, it was (sort of) the devil. Even though it's been on way too long, Supernatural is better at mixing big bads (they fought God's sister last season) and run-of-the-mill demons.

Damon and Katherine were actually decent villains, but the Originals as villains started creating these external threats that would only occasionally intersect with Mystic Falls.

[ComeWhatMay]

5 hours ago, dreamcatcher said:

I don't care why he decided that Delena wasn't working anymore, but it was too late in the game for him to be openly opposing his character's arc.

It sounds a bit like Ian veered into unprofessional territory too. Nina meant a lot to the show, but I could see Ian wanting it to just go on without her all the while seeing an opportunity for Kat. I must give Plec credit. However Julie felt about Ian, she all but told him to grow up & reminded him who is the boss with the finale script. 

[Artsda]

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 I don't care why he decided that Delena wasn't working anymore, but it was too late in the game for him to be openly opposing his character's arc.

Both Ian and Paul loved playing the darker characters. Ian especially loved the early season bad Damon, not the romantic good guy. Nina leaving gave him that freedom to bring that Damon back. I think he even promoted how the old Damon was going to return, it's what he probably always wanted.

[imaneassi]

26 minutes ago, Artsda said:

Both Ian and Paul loved playing the darker characters. Ian especially loved the early season bad Damon, not the romantic good guy. Nina leaving gave him that freedom to bring that Damon back. I think he even promoted how the old Damon was going to return, it's what he probably always wanted.

And Nina loved playing Katherine, it's a real chasllenge and real.ly interesting for actors

[Katherine]

I'm glad the series ended with a Defan scene. I loved seeing Elena reunite with her family and I thought Nina did a lovely job in that particular scene (I don't think we've ever seen Elena look so happy!), but I still prefer the Defan ending we got. Since Nina left, it makes sense that the writers chose to give the final scene to two of the actors who stuck around. The ending of a TV show doesn't just need to reflect how the show began; it should also honour what the show became, and in the last two seasons (no matter how flawed they were), the show was about the brothers. 

It kind of reminds me of the finale of The Office. Michael was the main character for 7 seasons but then he left and the show carried on without him (though IMO it shouldn't have). Steve Carrell agreed to do a brief cameo in the series finale but felt that the focus should remain on the characters the show had followed for the last two seasons. Clearly others will disagree, but I felt the final scene of the Vampire Diaries was fitting both for the way the story started out (I loved the parallel of the two "hello brother" scenes) and what it later became. 

[Aeryn13]

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Both Ian and Paul loved playing the darker characters. Ian especially loved the early season bad Damon, not the romantic good guy. Nina leaving gave him that freedom to bring that Damon back. I think he even promoted how the old Damon was going to return, it's what he probably always wanted.

And both actors lobbied to have their characters killed off in the end, either individually or together. From everything I ever read from Paul, I believe this was rather close to his dream Finale. Ian, not so much. Which explains their comments in interview before the Finale aired.  

It`s kind of unfortunate that during the first kiss Damon and "Elena", really Katherine, shared, apparently the actors didn`t hear the "cut" and kept going whereas eight years later when it is supposed to be a romantic endgame as well as a reunion after a couple of years, there can`t even be a proper kiss. Though, really, I blame Plec overall as director.   

[dreamcatcher]

16 hours ago, Artsda said:

Both Ian and Paul loved playing the darker characters. Ian especially loved the early season bad Damon, not the romantic good guy. Nina leaving gave him that freedom to bring that Damon back. I think he even promoted how the old Damon was going to return, it's what he probably always wanted.

Well he's an actor. He doesn't get to choose what's going to happen, that's the writers and the producers' job. Obviously they should have some insights after playing the same characters from years. But what you like and find challenging as an actor isn't necessarily what the story needs. I loved S1 Damon. But going back to that would damage his character's development in the past 8 years. 

[ByTor]

20 hours ago, doram said:

I don't understand why they bothered introducing themes of Redemption and the Afterlife (Heaven & Hell) only to water them down to recycled plots.

I also don't understand their whole "redemption" thing when it was beaten over our heads pretty much all season that everybody is going to hell.  Even that one guy in the support group was going to go to hell for a "what would you do in this situation" scenario & not for something he actually did!

[Aeryn13]

Seeing as hell was destroyed and apparently everyone in it who we didn`t see come back, I take it as one final "fuck you" to all those people in hell noone in the fellowship of the Falls gave a crap about. Which makes me laugh and laugh and laugh because more than the triangle, romance or Defan this symbolizes the show for me: tribal mentality to the last.

[ketose]

6 hours ago, dreamcatcher said:

Well he's an actor. He doesn't get to choose what's going to happen, that's the writers and the producers' job. Obviously they should have some insights after playing the same characters from years. But what you like and find challenging as an actor isn't necessarily what the story needs. I loved S1 Damon. But going back to that would damage his character's development in the past 8 years. 

Didn't both of them get named as producers at some point?

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Often when actors are given a producer credit late in the show's run, it's another way to keep them happy because they get the title and additional salary, but it doesn't always translate to being given the power to make decisions about the storylines. It varies from show to show, obviously, but the title itself isn't always indicative of a lot of power to shape the plot.

[dreamcatcher]

Yeah I think being a producer and being an executive producer like Plec and Williamson is two different things. Plec is the one giving them the general storylines and then the writers write the scripts.

[Aeryn13]

Some actors can get really involved up to the point of actually taking over showrunning and even forcing the previous showrunner out but I don`t think that was the case here. Otherwise, we would have had Bamon actually explored as a romantic couple. Ian was campaigning so hard for it but they never went there. Even a crackship like Caroline and Alaric got to be more canon. 

[dreamcatcher]

I liked the Bamon dynamic but it would get too teen drama/soap opera for me. I mean we already have brothers and bffs switching partners. We don't have to explore every single possible pairing in a show, thank you very much.

[Chaos Theory]

I like Damon and Bonnie as reluctant friends. I found it one of the most endearing things about the show.  The people Damon called "friends."    Honestly in my crackship heart I would have put him with Liz.  What????? Dint judge me!  

[Aeryn13]

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The show kept forcing him into the teen/young crowd and it just made him look gross.

He didn`t look high school age but then Stefan didn`t either. Ever. While all the actors aged of course, I don`t think it was like Damon looked 54 or something. And in terms of actual age both him and Stefan were old men compared to the teen girls.

Look-wise, it never bothered me to see Damon with the young crowd. He was just as much the typical brand of young and hot that the CW stands for as the others.     

[Chaos Theory]

One of the things I do wish the show did better was make it clear how much Liz knew and about what.  This probably should go in past season but whatevs. One of the weirdest scenes was when she gave medics to the human Katherine and seemed to have no idea who she was.  This was the girl/vampire who murdered her daughter and nothing was said.  A single line of dialogue would have made all the difference.  

Then again this is one of those shows that was not exactly badly written but I just wish it was written a smidge better.  Maybe it was all the teenage melodrama or maybe it was just on the edge of a really good show and it's a potty it didn't reach it.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 3/22/2017 at 11:11 AM, dreamcatcher said:

I liked the Bamon dynamic but it would get too teen drama/soap opera for me. I mean we already have brothers and bffs switching partners. We don't have to explore every single possible pairing in a show, thank you very much.

I refer to this as Peach Pit Syndrome due to everyone on 90210 dating each other. I understand that once a show has been on for several seasons, their relationship choices for the main characters are to keep bringing in guest stars as love interests or keep pairing off the main cast in different iterations, but it's still really annoying when you get to the end of the run and see how many of the main characters have been in relationships with each other. Poor Caroline was involved with just about every male main character on the show except for Jeremy. In eight seasons, she was involved with Damon, Matt, Tyler, Klaus, Stefan, and Alaric.

[Aeryn13]

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The casting directors/show-runners obviously felt that Paul could pass a late teenager and Ian could pass as someone in the late twenties. 

Anyway, even if these were just faceless characters in a story, it would still be skeevy that the man who can be BFFs with Alaric, is perving on his foster daughter and her friends. That Damon looks Alaric's age (the two  actors are a year apart) just makes it worse. 

I believe the characters were supposed to be eternally 17 and 24. Now casting-wise, it was the typical "these are highschool kids, just don`t look too closely at it in some cases" thing all shows do. But I never thought Damon and either Elena or Bonnie looked gross together, like, from just looking at them.

Alaric was obviously a role conceptualized as more maturely. Katherine for example was, too, despite looking like Elena. The show probably would never have hooked up Bonnie`s Mom and Klaus and yet the actors are married in real life. If you have a relatively youthful look as an actor, a lot depends on how adult your role is meant to be.

Damon was in reality hundred and plus years old so he could easily become friends with the more mature characters but still fit in with the younger crowd. It was never skeevy or anything like that to me. Stefan could have relationships with the more mature characters as well, they just didn`t really explore that much. He once had a nice moment with Grams of the "teehee, remember the 60s" variety but that didn`t go anywhere. Personally, I always found it much more strange that Stefan went to Highschool. I get wanting to meet Elena but seriously?      

[Chaos Theory]

4 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

I believe the characters were supposed to be eternally 17 and 24. Now casting-wise, it was the typical "these are highschool kids, just don`t look too closely at it in some cases" thing all shows do. But I never thought Damon and either Elena or Bonnie looked gross together, like, from just looking at them.

Alaric was obviously a role conceptualized as more maturely. Katherine for example was, too, despite looking like Elena. The show probably would never have hooked up Bonnie`s Mom and Klaus and yet the actors are married in real life. If you have a relatively youthful look as an actor, a lot depends on how adult your role is meant to be.

Damon was in reality hundred and plus years old so he could easily become friends with the more mature characters but still fit in with the younger crowd. It was never skeevy or anything like that to me. Stefan could have relationships with the more mature characters as well, they just didn`t really explore that much. He once had a nice moment with Grams of the "teehee, remember the 60s" variety but that didn`t go anywhere. Personally, I always found it much more strange that Stefan went to Highschool. I get wanting to meet Elena but seriously?      

I think this is the one case where it both hurts and helps the show that the actors never looked 17/24.  I mean hell Damon was whatever he was doing with Caroline when she was 16 years old for god sake.  The fact that she looks (at least to me) in her early twenties makes it more palatable.  I like dark storylines and that one worked for me as an intro to both characters.  Still though.....

Damon was "supposed" to be Stefan Guardian which is how he presented himself to the town.  Which is why I always thought the show did a disservice by not having more Damon/Liz scenes.  But I guess this is more a teenage teenagy show so hot shirtless guys are the way to go.   Still though...

In the end I did think Damon and Elena had more chemistry then Stefan and Elena did. Hadn't bought Stefan and Elena as a couple since Elena became a vampir and Stefan kinda admitted he only lived her as a human.  Damon loved her regardless.  That kind of tipped the scales for me.

[WhosThatGirl]

3 hours ago, doram said:

... that never happened? Like it literally never happened on the show. 

Yeah. I don't remember this either. Also in Graduation, Stefan resigned himself to not being Elenas choice. He said something like he wasn't happy about Elena but he was happy for Damon. I think Stefan was heartbroken. Hell he planned a road trip to not be there that summer and then he got all trapped in the ocean

On a note about the finale, I still wish it had been two hours. Only because stuff felt rushed and it felt very music video montage at times when we could have had more actual scenes.

Edited March 29, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[dreamcatcher]

On 28/3/2017 at 11:23 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I refer to this as Peach Pit Syndrome due to everyone on 90210 dating each other. I understand that once a show has been on for several seasons, their relationship choices for the main characters are to keep bringing in guest stars as love interests or keep pairing off the main cast in different iterations, but it's still really annoying when you get to the end of the run and see how many of the main characters have been in relationships with each other. Poor Caroline was involved with just about every male main character on the show except for Jeremy. In eight seasons, she was involved with Damon, Matt, Tyler, Klaus, Stefan, and Alaric.

I guess in shows like 90210 and shows in general that are all about teenages/young adults/relationships it makes more sense. It's weird, but I get it. But in tvd? Caroline not only dated pretty much everyone (that's not slut-shaming btw and I gotta admit that I shipped Caroline with all the male characters she dated because that girl had chemistry with all of them!), but they made everyone be he true love. With Matt? Not only they loved each other, but she chose him over Tyler. Then Tyler became her one true love, until he wasn't. Then she had sex with Klaus and kinda admitted that there was something there and I guess with the letter they hinted that she went to find him at some point. Aaand then Stefan suddenly became her epic love and they ended up married. I'm not even touching the Alaric thing because for me that was one of the worst storylines they had on that show.

And apart from that, Caroline was Stelenas no1 fan. But then Steroline happened and it was so not weird for everyone involved. Elena moved from one brother to the other but they worked things out even though they hated each other for 145 thanks to Katherine -and with Katherine, they were both victims. Then Elena was semi-dead and they kept giving Bamon scenes full of sexual tension, probably to appease Bamon fans. But I can't imagine Damon hooking up with his one true love's bff and given that Bonnie literally chose to sacrifice herself a dozen times for Elena, that would be a strange choice for her as well.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I"m definitely not slut shaming Caroline because the eight seasons of TVD actually covered over a decade of time and dating six people over that period of time is totally normal. My issue was that the six guys they had her date were all main characters on the show (and that's not including when they initially had Enzo hardcore flirting with her a few seasons ago) AND everyone was the love of her life AND some of them were her best friend's ex-boyfriends. Even when they made Tyler the love of her life, I was like show, please, she's in HIGH SCHOOL. Yes, some people are lucky enough to find the right person when they're teenagers but the fact that it really takes away the weight of the phrase "the love of my life" if you use it to describe everyone you date, especially when one of those people was the love of your BFF's life in the not so distant past.

[dreamcatcher]

Totally agree! And I think it was so unfair to Caroline as a character. I mean she was so in love with Matt and yet they made it pretty clear that Matt was still in love with Elena-and even after they broke up, he had some scenes where it was clear he was in love with Elena, but not even one scene indicating that he misses being with Caroline. Tyler just left because #reasons, so thank you for making that love story "Caroline's true love". How about Stefan? The guy who was her bff's "epic love" and who was making fun of her in the very beginning. I know that they used this a cute moment, like awww Caroline always knew but it bothers me for some reason. Plus, the fact that Plec commented on this and pretty much said that yeah ok Stefan moved on from his epic love and found something different in Caroline so it's fine that poor Caroline lost her husband because she will probably find another one either way. Way to go to prove that Steroline was an important ship.

I'm not even going to discuss Bonnie and her relationship because that poor character was mistreated in every possible way and her romantic life was the least of her problems.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Deleted scene:

[WhosThatGirl]

That was a good moment. And like others have said, it adds to the bad taste in my month that Carolina really did get the worst end of all the characters considering she's going to live forever and everyone she knows and loves is going to die. Or at least the ones we know from the show. Poor Carolina.