Dear White People - General Discussion

[tennisgurl]

I liked this one pretty well, I think mainly because Troy reminds me a LOT of a friend of mines from college. Dude could not go more than five minutes without launching into some kind of political or inspirational speech, even when he was too wasted to stand up (...it was college) and was half convinced every light he saw was the Aurora Borealis (they were not). I also cracked up at Troy Shamelessly pandering to every demographic on campus, and his not even hidden disdain for Kurt. However, sleeping with his teacher whos in a relationship with a woman is pretty weird. Especially because, if he's 20 right now, and she said they've been sleeping together for two years, that means he was 18 when they started hooking up. So, he was legal, but its still really questionable.

Are we going to have any follow up that a kid fell off a roof after binge drinking on campus and died? And tons of people apparently stood around and starred at his corpse for who knows how long? I feel like that would be a really big damn deal, no matter how much the schools racial issues are making headlines.

[tennisgurl]

Coco was a character in the movie that I really wanted to know better, and I'm glad they gave her such a great showcase here! I really liked the history behind Coco and Sam's friendship and how they went in different directions, and we also got some nice backstory on Sam. I liked seeing the gradual transition of Sam the slightly dorky freshmen with a really young and "cute" look, to her current more funky look. I hope they can find some common ground again now that Sam threw out her peace offering.

I left this episode feeling really sad for Coco. She has spent so long not feeling like she fit in anywhere and feeling uncomfortable about her dark skin, and that lead to her getting shit from pretty much everyone. Neither the sorority or the BSU came off very well in this episode, they both came off as judgmental and (ironically) intolerant, just coming at it from different angles. And Sam playing that mix of Coco at the party in the air was a really crappy thing to do. I would like to eventually have them have a real discussion on their insecurities about their respective skin tones, with Sam feeling like she needs to overcompensate as a black woman because she's biracial, and Coco feeling constantly judged for being dark skinned.

I also liked Coco's posse of girls. They were funny, especially when one of her friends sounded slightly terrified that Coco would call Sam the N word in the radio station!

[Pepper Mostly]

I adore Coco and she is my favorite by far! I love how focused she is, I love her ambition, I love her willingness to accept pain and hurt by continuing to put herself out there and risk rejection. I love how she never loses sight of the goal. She just puts on a killer outfit and goes right back into the fray.

My husband is black and went to an HBCU--he's the one who told me about the "paper bag test" that one black sorority used to use. If your skin was darker than a brown paper bag, you were out. I knew in a vague way that there was prejudice against darker skin in the black community, but wow. 

[Pepper Mostly]

Oh, Joelle is carrying a torch hard for Reggie. When Reggie said he was going to marry the darkest woman he could find and start having a lot of black babies? Her face--she glanced over at him, like she was hoping he'd be looking at her, and she allowed a little hope into her heart. Joelle covers her feelings with humor. But she is madly in love with Reggie.

[DearEvette]

Yeah,  it is called colorism and it is rarely explored (well) on tv.  But this was really nicely done.

I like how at the end of every installment the POV character stares for into the camera as one last coda to the episode and each stare conveys something a little different.  Coco's was rather defiant, I thought, kinda saying "go ahead, Judge me. "

Edited May 3, 2017 by DearEvette

[Meedis]

And Reggie of course is oblivious to it all.

[DearEvette]

Ok, I hadn't really paid much attention to Sam's relationship with Gabe because it was rather peripheral, but I thought it was still nice.  So I am kinda mad at Sam in this episode for possibly-maybe-probably cheating on him with Reggie.  And my take is that if she did sleep with Reggie it is not for the right reason -- she has finally succumbed to his charms, but for the wrong reason: because he became a symbol to her.  He got a gun pulled on him by a cop.  That is the sort of thing Sam's activism sops up like a biscuit.  Suddenly the guy she had no time for, she is blowing up his phone and ignoring her boyfriend.  Reggie can be the one thing Gabe can never be: a black man who has become a public victim of the oppression she fights so hard against. 

It is one thing if she really found herself falling for Reggie and no longer feeling Gabe.  But I don't get that sense at all.  I feel that she is really into Gabe, and it is only this incident that making her see Reggie differently.  So yeah, I am kinda mad at her if she did actually sleep with Reggie.

I will say I loved seeing the wanna-be-threesome theatre studies couple again from Lionel's episode.  They found another black guy to be their third.  Ha!  Great callback.  Also Reggie's slam poetry was very well done.

The Dean's smug statement to Sam about Troy never having a gun being pulled on him because "I raised him." is just so damned dumb and feels very foreshadowy.

This wasn't as fab as the previous episode, but it seems like it is setting the stage for some more dramatic reveals, i.e. Gabe.

[calliope1975]

5 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

Ok, I hadn't really paid much attention to Sam's relationship with Gabe because it was rather peripheral, but I thought it was still nice.  So I am kinda mad at Sam in this episode for possibly-maybe-probably cheating on him with Reggie.  And my take is that if she did sleep with Reggie it is not for the right reason -- she has finally succumbed to his charms, but for the wrong reason: because he became a symbol to her.  He got a gun pulled on him by a cop.  That is the sort of thing Sam's activism sops up like a biscuit.  Suddenly the guy she had no time for, she is blowing up his phone and ignoring her boyfriend.  Reggie can be the one thing Gabe can never be: a black man who has become a public victim of the oppression she fights so hard against. 

This was the only misstep for me in the entire series. Not the maybe cheating. It was the sense that Sam owed it to Reggie because, in his eyes, she'd been leading him on for years. I didn't see that in the previous episodes, and that mindset really rubbed me the wrong way. Maybe I read it wrong, but if I didn't, it made it worse

Spoiler

when he was suddenly over Sam a few eps later because she regretted what had happened and wasn't into him.

I was feeling for his character, but that attitude is a total turn off. 

[Dee]

On 4/29/2017 at 6:07 PM, DearEvette said:

I howled at Defamation.  Howled!!  Man, I need to check twitter to see if Shonda Rhimes said anything. 

Right?! Joelle's reactions alone had me in tears. Push through, indeed!

[Kira53]

My impression was she was a teacher. Not his teacher. (Referring to the teacher she he was sleeping with).  I forgot what subject she teaches and we don't know Troy's major.  At least I don't know it.  Hopefully there will be episodes next year and the series will start to expose the majors of some of the other characters.  if anyone knows what Troy's major is please post.   Even though he's a great politician I really hope it's not political science, I'd love it to be something unusual like entomology or Physics. I just enjoy this series being about the uniqueness of different characters who just happen to be African-American. it's important that the characters have concerns that contemporary young African-Americans have, but that they are also unique to themselves in other ways.  The character development is a strong aspect of the series.  

[Kira53]

 Sam can do some really contradictory things. Sleeping with Reggie is only one of them. Seems pretty realistic as one of those crazy mistakes that people make all the time.  Especially in a college environment. Reggie has been after her since the first week of freshman year and I'm sure that when he saw he could use his victim status as a leverage  to get Sam in bed he went for it.  Sam's conflicted that she such a revolutionary yet in a relationship with a white man and that some of her fellow Black students think that means that she isn't honoring the black man. This is also why she might have felt the need to hook up with Reggie.   I'm really looking forward to greater character development of Sam and finding out more about her background and relationships with her parents. I hope they're divorced because that would just be even more complicated especially if their second marriages are people of their same race.   Also she needs one sibling who looks totally white and one sibling who no one would guess is biracial. Just to complicate things. Maybe they can be for fraternal twins who enter the same college next year.   No one will think that they are twins or possibly even related. 

It's so realistic that Reggie has been chasing after Sam and not even noticing Joelle I think her name is who is into him.  

Oh, I do like Gabe and Sam together. I like the Gabe character a lot. He's really solid as a person but I'm sure next year will see how effed up he is too.

Edited May 4, 2017 by Kira53
Spelling

[Dee]

Coco being tenderheaded cracked me up. Beauty is pain indeed.

[Dee]

It's heartbreaking because gorgeous, thoughtful and incredibly sweet Joelle has a thing for brilliant yet clueless Reggie who's hung up on Joelle's lightskinned biracial BFF who just so happens to be love with a white dude and wants nothing to do with Reggie romantically. 

Everything about Al had me in tears. He is magic.

Nice to see Lionel having a good time without a lot of unnecessary existential angst.

The gang pointing Rashid the right way to Kenya cracked me up.

I love Troy & Coco together. Seeing them both so shook up in the aftermath of what almost happened to Reggie was surprisingly moving.

Those final two scenes, however, were harrowing, and all too real. It's incredibly sobering to realize how quickly you can become a hashtag.

[DearEvette]

Awww.  Poor Gabe.  Just like Coco's chapter, this one really made Gabe come alive for me.  I am glad he got a POV.  And I love that the show doesn't just cast him in the role of privileged white guy (even if the characters sometimes do), but rather a guy who can't help but be white.

I love that the show is putting him in predominantly black spaces and making him uncomfortable because that is how black people sometimes feel in predominantly white spaces.  But I do feel for the guy because he is present and visible so Sam's circle of friends kinda use them as their stand in for the ills of society largely perpetuated by white men.  And what is more she doesn't really defend him.  And yet, I like him and Sam together.  I think the actors are doing a good job of showing that underneath all the other crazy race stuff they just really want  each other.

But man, Sam did sleep with Reggie.  And Reggie's passive aggressive self-satisfied stares at Gabe were just soooo wrong.  LOL.  But I wouldn't be so satisfied Reggie.  Sam feels like regret, not like she is ready to dump Gabe and move on to you.

I absolutely loved how after some initial awkwardness, Gabe and Joelle fell into an easy camaraderie.  They were fun together and I loved their little interactions with the Asian student union, the LGBTQIA and of course the rivalry between the LBTQIA and the Asian Student union and their duelling Bowling for Columbine film nights..  Also loved Joelle wanting to get the tea on the Asian Student Union  rep after the LGBTQIA outed her for being on the down low.  LOL.

And finally, Gabe being a film student means that his imaginary suspicion of Sam and Reggie take the form of film.  The Godard piece was fabulous.  But the Blaxploitation one was really funny.  Also it looked like the actors who play Sam and Reggie were having a blast.

I hope Gabe & Sam work through this.  I hate it when White Bae is upset.

[Dee]

Kelsey and the ransom note about Sorbet had me in tears.

[Dee]

47 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

And finally, Gabe being a film student means that his imaginary suspicion of Sam and Reggie take the form of film.  The Godard piece was fabulous.  But the Blaxploitation one was really funny.  Also it looked like the actors who play Sam and Reggie were having a blast.

I was done when he imagined them as reverse versions of Mookie & Tina and & Julian and Jane (complete with ice cube massages and hairline licking)!

[DearEvette]

31 minutes ago, Dee said:

(complete with ice cube massages and hairline licking)!

OMG, The hairline licking!!  so hysterical.  Also, when he was imagining all the sexy food sharing -- strawberries and various fruits -- and then what looked like Ramen noodles?  Ha!

[tennisgurl]

Wow, that escalated so quickly! I guess that's how it happens, but still, it was super intense to see. I still think Reggie is kind of a dick, but I felt awful for him. He looked so shaken, and rightfully so. I hope that some of the students recording the whole thing on their phones upload those pictures to the internet, and that security asshole gets his ass hired, but I'm not holding out hope for that. Also, is there any white person who isn't secretly racist? I don't think Gabe is, but you never know. Maybe some of the kids actually did get Woke for real now. Ironically, this could actually accomplish the goal that Reggie had been trying to get accomplished the whole episode: all the students in the school will have their eyes opened to the racism on their campus. Even his secretly racist friend and that dickhead Kurt seemed really shaken and horrified by what happened.

Before that, it seemed like a really fun day, actually. It seemed like a good slide of college life, just wandering around with your friends getting free food and trying to find fun things to do around campus. And, yes, Joelle so clearly has a massive crush on Reggie, and Reggie is so hung up on Sam that he cant even notice. She practically leaped out in front of him with a big "I'm right here!" sign on her shirt on while he was going on about marrying a dark skinned woman. Poor Joelle, she has so much going on, I'm sure she can find a guy who can appreciate her and her fabulous shirt collection!

I love Rashid, can we get a Rashid episode? He rocks. And I'm pretty much on his side when it comes to interracial dating. I get that black men are often not shown as desirable in the media, but Sam should be allowed to like who she likes without having to worry about the politics of her snapchats. I guess its hard for students of color to avoid the implications of anything they do, and that sucks, but still.

That kid at the party being like "We should handle this like the Germans did" followed by everyone at the party, on both sides of the argument, being like "WHAT?!?!" then were all like "Oh, ok..." when he clarified made me laugh so hard I had to stop the episode for a minute.

Edited May 4, 2017 by tennisgurl

[tennisgurl]

On ‎5‎/‎3‎/‎2017 at 4:18 PM, DearEvette said:

That is the sort of thing Sam's activism sops up like a biscuit.  Suddenly the guy she had no time for, she is blowing up his phone and ignoring her boyfriend.  Reggie can be the one thing Gabe can never be: a black man who has become a public victim of the oppression she fights so hard against. 

I totally agree. It really seems like Same is into Reggie now because he is a black activist who had a gun pulled on him by the police AKA Sam's personal catnip. Before this, I never got any feeling that she liked him as more than a good friend. Now, he is her own personal symbol of black adversity. And, while that's understandable, its still a shitty thing to do to Gabe, who seems like a really decent guy who has been nothing but supportive of her and her causes. It doesn't make me not like Sam anymore or anything, but I hope she learns a lesson that this is not an alright thing to do.

Maybe I'm reading WAY too much into things, but now I wonder if the season will end with Reggie and Sam as a couple, and Gabe and Joelle hooking up, based on mutual heartbreak. I know she said last semester that she would never date a white guy, but maybe that was foreshadowing? And she did seem a lot more friendly towards him this episode... 

Laughed at the one guy drinking too many of the Deans Kurig cups! 

[tennisgurl]

Oh Gabe. He really didn't mean to do anything that would hurt anyone, and he really does clearly feel awful about what happened, but he did call the cops and that lead to a guy almost getting shot, and that's going to be a big damn obstacle for him and Sam. I really am glad they gave Gabe an episode though, because before this, I liked Gabe, but he seemed a bit more like plot device than a character, like he was more Sam's White Boyfriend than anything else. This episode really made him a character for me, and I really like the guy. I enjoyed seeing how being the only white person in a group is a new experience for him, and while he doesn't really mind it, he does feel pretty exhausted being the stand in for all the evils of the White Man, and while intellectually he knows that all the jokes about him being white and the rants about shitty white guys aren't a big deal, there is still a part of him that wants to yell "Damn it, its not my fault I'm a white guy!", and I think that makes him really understandable.

I also loved that all his insecurities come across in movie references. I think my favorite was the Do the Right Thing one, with the hairline licking and "sexy" food sharing. Hilarious!

I also really liked Gabe and Joelle hanging out and bonding over the various weird conversations with the various students groups, and then over their romantic issues with Sam and Reggie. I really want Sam and Gabe to work it out, but I also hope Joelle and Gabe can become friends. They had nice chemistry together. I was also getting serious college flashbacks with the dueling movie nights between the student groups, and all the drama behind it! That kind of programming competition totally happened at my college!

You know, I still feel bad for what happened to Reggie, and I want him to get justice, but...the guy is still kind of a dick. I feel bad saying that, considering what he went through at the party, but he was so damn smug about sleeping with Sam, it was so dickish! When he was like "Yeah, I got what I needed" to Gabe at the start of the episode, and was clearly pushing his chair towards Sam while smirking at Gabe, it was such dick behavior. And he didn't even know about him calling the cops at the time.

I liked the variety of reactions of all the black students when Sam apparently told everyone that Gabe called the cops. You had the one light skinned guy calling him a racist, Coco and Troy cutting him some slack, Rashid saying he should have known better, Lionel feeling guilty that his investigation caused more drama, Reggie being pissed off and smug, Joelle looking sad, and Sam looking SUPER sad. And Gabe is just like "man, fuck my life".

[tennisgurl]

You know, Lionel really needs to figure out what he wants out of a future journalism career. He prints articles that create controversy, but he clearly doesn't like confrontation and drama that follows his stories. Which I can understand, considering he seems like he really wants justice, but is also a shy person by nature, its really an issue if he wants to do this for the rest of his life. It doesn't seem like he wants to write fluff pieces, so what does he want? I mean, he felt bad when he was briefly confronted by Gabe, and he hardly knows him, while he has a massive crush on Tory and he's his roommate and friend, he has to know Tory is going to be FURIOUS about that article, even if he doesn't actually reveal all the secrets he either told Lionel or he just figured out.

The Dean makes Troy take a drug test? Holy shit, Troy's life is even more messed up then what we`ve seen. What else is going on with them?!

The profiles on the gay dating sites were cracking me up, just like Lionel feeling like his life was a living comment section. I feel his pain.

[DearEvette]

I am coming to the conclusion that Troy is the weakest link in an otherwise really strong cast.  Not that he is terrible or anything, but he just doesn't pop for me like everyone else. 

I love Lionel though, but yeah he really fucked up.  There is such a thing as ethics in journalism and he basically took stuff he learned personally and put that on blast. 

I will say that I love that even though Troy is some hyper masculine manly man he shows not even a trace of homophobia.  I mean, he's not even casually homophobic. Even though some of the black republicans were letting the F-word fly, Troy never did.  And I loved meeting his first roommate.  I wonder if Troy was always enlightened or did his first roommate school him some? I am voting for always enlightened, AJ is so out there that his type of flamboyant Paris is Burning gayness could actually make a person with homophobia become more entrenched in their beliefs, not less.

Once again we see how totally out of the gay dating loop Lionel is.  I loved his reaction to the gay dating app and not understanding the lingo. 

Two things that made me really laugh out loud: 1) Silvio calling Lionel 'Mister Man!' sounding just like Kathy Bates.  And then Sam's misspelled poster "I can't breath"  LOL.  I like it when the show takes down Sam a bit in a funny way.  I love her, but she is so serious all the time.  And yes, she is pushing Reggie away.  I knew she wasn't into him.  Maybe like Sam with Reggie, this article and the fall out may kill Lionel's crush on Troy.  As Silvio pointed out, Troy is straight and always will  be.

[tennisgurl]

I still really love Coco, and I hope this is the start of her realizing she doesn't have to be part of a Power Couple to be successful. On the one hand, Troy saying that he and Coco were never even together for real was cold as hell (especially considering he's been sleeping with that professor), but I think he had a point when he asked Coco why she liked him as a person. I think she did like him, but was more in love with the idea of him than him as an actual person. Of course she knew that Lionel had a crush on Troy. She is super on it. At the beginning of the episode, I had a horrible idea that the old guy who started mentoring little Coco mentored her for not so wholesome reasons, but it seems like he really is just a rich guy who takes on poor kids as projects.

I also feel like Coco and Sam both made some good points this episode about the protest. On the one hand, Sam is right that just having a talk probably isn't going to lead to any real change, as it hasn't worked in the past, but Coco was right that upsetting the donors and causing even more controversy on campus is just going to lead to more problems, and working within the system isn't always a bad thing. I can see both points of view.

Its funny they're talking about splitting up a mostly black housing building on a college campus, when they did something similar in the backdoor pilot on Black-ish this week (it was basically Dear White People lite) and also had old rich white people being horrified at the idea of racial segregation in housing, while young activist black students tried to stop them and allow self segregation to continue.

Edited May 5, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Dee]

51 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

As Silvio pointed out, Troy is straight and always will  be.

Not necessarily. Given Silvio's actions in a later episode, his advice isn't exactly impartial imo.

[tennisgurl]

I honestly thought that protest was going to go A LOT worse than just an arrest. Also, someone get the guns away from those psychotic, trigger happy campus cops!

I really hope that Gabe and Sam get back together next season. They're super cute together, I think they could make it work! And now it looks like Reggie is finally moving on, so its all good now! I can be alright with the show focusing on Coco and Sam becoming friends again for awhile, but I would like to see them get back together eventually.

I wonder if the Dean is going to have different thoughts on the campus cops, now that his own son almost got shot. Not sure where Troy goes from here, but maybe now he can develop an actual personality, instead of a bunch of campaign catch phrases.

I totally called Lionel getting together with his editor! So called it!

I hope next season we can get a Joelle episode. And a Rashid episodes. And maybe even a Kelsie episode. I like our current main characters, but I would love to know more about everyone else.

I laughed super hard at the one guy at the protest being like "Thom wouldn't even want this! That motherfucker LOVED binge drinking!" And everything about Kelsie and Sorbet had me laughing my head off.

Really good season, with a great mix of comedy and social commentary. I thought it was a definite improvement on the movie, which I liked, but felt that it didn't live up to its full potential. Cant wait for season 2!

[DearEvette]

CoCo remains a boss.  I love her mightily.  The scene after Troy broke up with her and she stood outside his door, took a deep breath, squared her shoulders, removed her devastated face, and put on smile was everything to me.  Such a CoCo move.

I liked her natural hair and I loved Sam's reaction to it:  "Do you need money?" Ha.  Immediately assuming Coco couldn't afford a new weave. I also liked Troy's reaction to it.  Sometimes he really surprises me and his reaction to her hair, like his reaction to Lionel being gay, is just one of those times.  I do think Troy is complex, but I don't think the actor gives him all the shades he needs to really convey it. 

Couple of other things I found fascinating in this installment

 - Coco was always looking for a man to stand behind rather than shooting for her own glory.  It took Troy breaking up with her to finally realize her real potential even though she has always been the smartest one in the room.

- Coco was casting her net for a white boy originally, but they weren't interested in a real relationship with her only a down low relationship.  So her her outing of Sam & Gabe's relationship Chapter I now takes on some resonance.

- How much savvy she is navigating among the important people.  She really gets it.  And she is also very much the yin to Sam's yang.  Sam is in your face, dynamic protest for a collective while Coco is trying to navigate the system from the inside mainly for herself. 

- Nia Long's professor is just an older version of Coco.  No wonder Troy is attracted to both of them.

[DearEvette]

My husband is watching these because I have been nagging him to.  He sat and binged them all in one sitting.  I happened to catch this one again with him and actually sat through the end credits.  Saw that Barry Jenkins of Moonlight fame directed this episode.  No wonder this one was so good!

[Dee]

41 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I liked her natural hair and I loved Sam's reaction to it:  "Do you need money?" Ha.  Immediately assuming Coco couldn't afford a new weave. I also liked Troy's reaction to it.  Sometimes he really surprises me and his reaction to her hair, like his reaction to Lionel being gay, is just one of those times.  I do think Troy is complex, but I don't think the actor gives him all the shades he needs to really convey it. 

I think BPB has been doing solid work, with a character that is by definition, more lowkey than his co-stars, but the one time he really worked for me was his night out with Lionel.

In those scenes he imbued Troy with so many subtle levels: his bitterness over feeling useless, his anger at being viewed as a powerless figurehead, his wistful regret surrounding his parental situation, his unbridled joy on the dance floor, his preening narcissism and his sweetly reassuring yet self serving relationship with Lionel.

It was just really great work imo.

[Kira53]

Gabe called the police but didn't Troy also called the police at the black face party? Neither Troy or Gabe anticipated violent cops.   But gets Gabe gets the blame........ 

Isn't Sam's headboard a replica of the one in "Do the Right Thing?"   Just right for a film major.  I didn't get the references to the movies Gabe saw in his head so I appreciate the above references to the film genres.  Wrong Spike Lee movie – I think the headboard is from "She's Got to have it." 

Apros of nothing else, I really love Reggie's "Gumby" hairdo.  He really can be passive-aggressive.  Also, I do sort of hate him for never noticing Joelle.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Kira53
Wrong movie reference.

[Kira53]

On 5/4/2017 at 0:51 AM, Dee said:

Everything about Al had me in tears. He is magic.

 Who's Al?

[Dee]

Al is the lightskinned member of the Dear White People gang who steals grape Shasta from AASU cook-ins and gets himself and the rest of the gang thrown out of potential protests by loudly yelling angry monologues from Training Day.

[DearEvette]

Sigh.  I am so sad this is over.  I tried to stretch it out as much as I could.  But the momentum as the season went on was just too irresistible.

What a great first season finale.  I loved the spilt screen stuff in the beginning.  And the fact that this was nobody's POV but all of them.  It felt like it was going to get chaotic and it did.  For me, it felt that everybody brought their A-Game and I finally enjoyed, unreservedly  Troy. 

Finally some follow up on Thane's fatal attempt at flying and the fact that it is a anti-binge drinking protest that usurped Sam's  protest is somehow so typical.  Al's comment about that "motherfucker loved binge drinking" was so perfect.  Man.  I love how the show deployed the minor, non POV characeters, Al, Joelle, Kelsey (and Sorbet!) and Rashid -- heck even Gabe's two best friends whose hipster-ish ways got poked a a little bit, but they were not caricatures and come off as pretty decent people.  Also I think Kurt, the editor of Pastiche might actually have a bit of a crush on Sam. 

I wasn't too surprised the rally didn't get too crazy.  These are Ivy league students after all.  For all that these are black students and Reggie did have the gun pulled on him, they are still in a bit of a bubble. And even thought the white students may feel a upset about the fall out from the Black face party and even the Dear White People radio show, it doesn't really affect them in the end. So the stakes just aren't there.

Yay! Reggie realizes that Sam is not for him.  I am hopeful that he finally sees Joelle and that Sam and Gabe can work it out.  I am sympathetic to him, Sam is a lot of work but just like Lionel asked the Administration "how much is she worth to you?" 

And Finally, it ends with one last look at the camera from both Sam and CoCo.  For me these two are definitely the heart and soul of this series. 

Well done.  I hope this gets renewed.

[Negritude]

But can we talk about "Dereca, Set Me Straight?" That had me howling. "I read one half of one of Iyanla Vanzant's books..." lol. This and "Defamation" the Scandal parody make me miss In Living Color. ILC would probably go in on Dear White People too.

[Negritude]

20 hours ago, Kira53 said:

Gabe called the police but didn't Troy also called the police at the black face party? Neither Troy or Gabe anticipated violent cops.   But gets Gabe gets the blame........ 

Apros of nothing else, I really love Reggie's "Gumby" hairdo.  He really can be passive-aggressive.  Also, I do sort of hate him for never noticing Joelle.

Yeah but...did the cops pull guns on anyone at the Blackface party? 

And yeah ditto on Reggie not noticing Joelle.

[Negritude]

I gasped when Coco's wig fell off during sex. Poor girl lol. And it was cute when he put on his wave cap in solidarity. I would love to see more interactions like that between Black men and women in film. 

I did call foul on her natural though. With the length and thickness she had naturally, she could achieve a similar look to her weave/wig by straightening her own hair (and it still looked like the actress was wearing a wig). As a Black woman who wears my hair natural I also know that it takes much more than just taking out the cornrows she had under her wig to get that bomb twist out she had. 

Edited May 6, 2017 by Negritude

[BoogieBurns]

I went to college with a girl a lot like Coco, and funny enough her name was Chanel. So I just called this character Coco Chanel in my head. She is by far my favorite, and I wanted more, especially beyond this episode. Sams are a dime a dozen, but Cocos are rare on TV so I am grateful they let her be more of a main character than in the movie. I was rooting for her for sure. 

Her hair looked really good when that rude sorority girl, was it Alpha Delta Rho(?), said she could tell it was not a weave. Whatever, it looked great. 

[DearEvette]

49 minutes ago, Negritude said:

I did call foul on her natural though. With the length and thickness she had naturally, she could achieve a similar look to her weave/wig by straightening her own hair (and it still looked like the actress was wearing a wig).

I wonder if the wig/weave was a psychological crutch?  Part of CoCo's journey is assimilation.  Remember, she didn't want to be put in the Armstrong-Parker dorm when she enrolled. She wanted to be in a predominantly white dorm.  Also remember after she burned her bridges with the black sorority, she adopted a white girl posse.  So even though her own hair has length and she could use a chemical straightener, maybe the long, flowing weave makes her feel more like part of the group she adopted. 

[DearEvette]

Forgot to mention.... the final scene of Defamation where "Olivia" and "Fitz" are in the cell, their crazy make out session was insane!  I would have loved it if we'd gotten  some extended scenes of Defamation somewhere, maybe in the end credits...

[Neurochick]

I just binge watched this entire series today and I loved it.  My favorite part was the ending when Coco and Sam were sitting together.  I like how in this show they fleshed out Coco's character because in the movie I don't think her character was fleshed out that much; sometimes I couldn't stand Coco but sometimes I could see her point.  

I think there's hope for Gabe and Sam; Gabe has to ask himself if Sam's really worth it and maybe he'll think she is.

I'm glad that Reggie can finally see Joelle, at least I hope he can.  I wish they'd done an episode from Joelle's POV though.

[praeceptrix]

I have been binging this series, and loving it. Until this episode. I get DearEvette's and tennisgurl's point about Reggie-as-victim being like catnip to Sam's activist-self. But my first reaction was more aligned with Calliope1975's --  once again, a woman was shown as owing sex to a man. He's the "friend zoned" guy who deserves sex because he wants it, even though she's been clear since freshman year that she was not interested (remember her having to push him out of her room in the Coco-centric episode?). I get that they are in college and will, of course, make stupid mistakes. But I wish that they had not gone there, especially after the last two episodes. I'd have preferred to see more interaction between Reggie and Coco, given her outburst about growing up on the south side of Chicago.

I also really want to know everyone's personal histories.

And how thick can the dean be, to insist that his son would never be in such a situation? Does he really think that wearing a suit and being polite is protection against systemic police racism?!?

[dirtypop90]

On 5/5/2017 at 4:39 PM, DearEvette said:

CoCo remains a boss.  I love her mightily.  The scene after Troy broke up with her and she stood outside his door, took a deep breath, squared her shoulders, removed her devastated face, and put on smile was everything to me.  Such a CoCo move.

I liked her natural hair and I loved Sam's reaction to it:  "Do you need money?" Ha.  Immediately assuming Coco couldn't afford a new weave. I also liked Troy's reaction to it.  Sometimes he really surprises me and his reaction to her hair, like his reaction to Lionel being gay, is just one of those times.  I do think Troy is complex, but I don't think the actor gives him all the shades he needs to really convey it. 

Couple of other things I found fascinating in this installment

 - Coco was always looking for a man to stand behind rather than shooting for her own glory.  It took Troy breaking up with her to finally realize her real potential even though she has always been the smartest one in the room.

- Coco was casting her net for a white boy originally, but they weren't interested in a real relationship with her only a down low relationship.  So her her outing of Sam & Gabe's relationship Chapter I now takes on some resonance.

- How much savvy she is navigating among the important people.  She really gets it.  And she is also very much the yin to Sam's yang.  Sam is in your face, dynamic protest for a collective while Coco is trying to navigate the system from the inside mainly for herself. 

- Nia Long's professor is just an older version of Coco.  No wonder Troy is attracted to both of them.

I agree with most of this but the bolded. She wanted troy freshman year after he hit her with the smooth line (something about her chocolate skin) but he chose sam over her around the same time she was rejected by the black sorority that also preferred Sam.  Troy, like the white guys, also was not interested in a real relationship with Coco. When they started sleeping together it was only a hookup situation until she pointed out that guys like him were quick to "wife up" girls like Sam.  So I think Coco was attracted to Troy but rightfully had walls up when it came to troy (plus he was screwing the professor).

I actually didn't totally understand the troy/coco sudden "break up."  Troy's whole "why do you like me?" bit made me roll my eyes, given his actions. It seemed rather sudden, like they just wanted to end it before the season was up.   In the movie, coco was into troy, and not just because he was going to be president, but troy didn't want to be seen with her publicly. So I was a bit thrown by what they did with them here. Splitting them in the same ep they had the sweet scenes involving her hair gave me whiplash because they were the first scenes that made me think Troy actually liked CoCo.  Plus, considering there were no other bm/bw pairings and the actors had chem (which I thought the other pairings lacked), I wanted more for them. :shugs: But, as troy is now, I suppose he reallly isn't good enough for CoCo.

[Dee]

Interesting both Coco & Joelle were bypassed/overlooked for Sam. If Lionel wasn't gay DWP would probably have him panting after her too.

[dirtypop90]

28 minutes ago, Dee said:

Interesting both Coco & Joelle were bypassed/overlooked for Sam. If Lionel wasn't gay DWP would probably have him panting after her too.

I absolutely think it was done on purpose though, to highlight further Sam's "light skin privilege." Sam's look alone would've absolutely made her a prize to black men on a majority white campus. I don't buy Troy ever being legitimately into Sam; they just don't fit and he dropped her quickly when daddy showed disapproval.  Nor do I think Sam and reggie have anything between them but their "wokeness;" I never got the feeling Reggie really knew Sam, at all, not the way Gabe did (and I'm indifferent to Gabe).  I think the writers had CoCo mention black guys were quick to wife up girls like Sam, and had reggie drop the line that he visited spoken word events with Joelle all the time, when Sam didn't even know he did spoken word, to point out that those guys were picking Sam for superficial reasons.  

 

 I also didn't miss in the next episode a line from reggie saying he was going to marry a dark skinned woman, while he was ignoring joelle and feenin' for Sam.  Ha!

Edited May 8, 2017 by dirtypop90

[Irlandesa]

29 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

I actually didn't totally understand the troy/coco sudden "break up."  Troy's whole "why do you like me?" bit made me roll my eyes, given his actions. It seemed rather sudden, like they just wanted to end it before the season was up.

It could have come later but I think it also could have come sooner.  While the wig moment was a nice and felt real, "why do you like me?" was arguably more real and the most perceptive Troy has been in regards to his relationship with Coco. This whole episode focused on Coco trying to protect Troy's image, telling Troy what to do and when she thought Troy wouldn't do it, attempting to get it done herself.  Maybe I'm forgetting something but take out his power and influence and what does Coco like about Troy?  I couldn't think of anything else so I thought it was a fair question to ask.

That's why I kind of rolled my eyes at her "being with him isn't as great as you think it is" line to Lionel.  No, it probably wouldn't be [if Troy were gay/bi which I don't think he is] but at least with Lionel, aside from wishing Troy were into dudes, he listens to Troy and takes him as he is and not who he wants him to be. And that guy is someone who is still figuring himself out. 

I like Coco but I had a hard time feeling sorry for her here as I think she was using him as much if not more than he was using her.  But it looks like she's finally realizing she doesn't need a man to accomplish her dreams and she can find love for real instead of as a path to those dreams. 

[dirtypop90]

21 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

It could have come later but I think it also could have come sooner.  While the wig moment was a nice and felt real, "why do you like me?" was arguably more real and the most perceptive Troy has been in regards to his relationship with Coco. This whole episode focused on Coco trying to protect Troy's image, telling Troy what to do and when she thought Troy wouldn't do it, attempting to get it done herself.  Maybe I'm forgetting something but take out his power and influence and what does Coco like about Troy?  I couldn't think of anything else so I thought it was a fair question to ask.

That's why I kind of rolled my eyes at her "being with him isn't as great as you think it is" line to Lionel.  No, it probably wouldn't be [if Troy were gay/bi which I don't think he is] but at least with Lionel, aside from wishing Troy were into dudes, he listens to Troy and takes him as he is and not who he wants him to be. And that guy is someone who is still figuring himself out. 

I like Coco but I had a hard time feeling sorry for her here as I think she was using him as much if not more than he was using her.  But it looks like she's finally realizing she doesn't need a man to accomplish her dreams and she can find love for real instead of as a path to those dreams. 

What did troy like about coco? I don't believe troy could answer that question without mentioning anything physical either. So troy pretending to feel hurt/used didn't work for me. They had just started hooking up when he asked this question. They both were hot and ran in the same circle and started sleeping together, which means it started like most college relationships.  I never felt he had any feelings for her.  He wouldn't take her out publicly until she told him she was tired of the "come thru" texts.  As far as CoCo pushing troy, I think CoCo absolutely thought troy wanted to be president etc. He never opened up to her like he did lionel. How was she supposed to know he didn't want any of that? As she pointed out, he stayed silent and kept screwing her without telling her he wanted different things. Troy knew who CoCo was and what she wanted the entire time he was screwing her. He was the one hiding the fact that all he wanted to do was screw, play video games, and get high.  So part of me feels bad for CoCo because I do think she was blindsided by Troy.  Like him, CoCo is also a 20 year old still trying to figure it all out, and hopefully the next guy she chooses is actually who he presents himself to be.

Edited May 8, 2017 by dirtypop90

[Irlandesa]

13 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

What did troy like about coco? I don't believe troy could answer that question without mentioning anything physical either. So troy pretending to feel hurt/used didn't work for me. They had just started hooking up when he asked this question. They both were hot and ran in the same circle and started sleeping together, which means it started like most college relationships.  I never felt he had any feelings for her.  

I'd have to rewatch but I didn't think Troy was pretending to be hurt or feel used.  I think he was tired at the moment but not sad.  And you're right, I don't think he had strong feelings for her but I don't think he convinced himself he did. Nor do I think he was trying to convince her that he did.  I mean he immediately left her after sex to cut Lionel's hair.

Heck, when she walked out and said she was smarter, more ambitious and would be the 2nd female black president and not even remember his name, he told her he hoped she was right.  I felt he meant it.

I feel for her in that she kept looking for a man to be a receptacle for her ambition but not for the fact her chosen men didnt live up to that.

[Dee]

1 hour ago, dirtypop90 said:

I absolutely think it was done on purpose though, to highlight further Sam's "light skin privilege." Sam's look alone would've absolutely made her a prize to black men on a majority white campus. I don't buy Troy ever being legitimately into Sam; they just don't fit and he dropped her quickly when daddy showed disapproval.  Nor do I think Sam and reggie have anything between them but their "wokeness;" I never got the feeling Reggie really knew Sam, at all, not the way Gabe did (and I'm indifferent to Gabe).  I think the writers had CoCo mention black guys were quick to wife up girls like Sam, and had reggie drop the line that he visited spoken word events with Joelle all the time, when Sam didn't even know he did spoken word, to point out that those guys were picking Sam for superficial reasons.  

  Hide contents

 I also didn't miss in the next episode a line from reggie saying he was going to marry a dark skinned woman, while he was ignoring joelle and feenin' for Sam.  Ha!

I think Troy was definitely into Sam.

He seems very conscious, despite his friends varying views on his degree of 'wokeness,' and would most likely be more involved in social justice work if his father's influence wasn't so stifling. He's also drawn to strong women and isn't colorstruck like Reggie. Whereas Reggie is possessive of women, Troy seems to crave a partner; which is one of the qualities I think attracted him to Coco (and vice versa), and eventually drove them apart.

[dirtypop90]

5 hours ago, Dee said:

I think Troy was definitely into Sam.

He seems very conscious, despite his friends varying views on his degree of 'wokeness,' and would most likely be more involved in social justice work if his father's influence wasn't so stifling. He's also drawn to strong women and isn't colorstruck like Reggie. Whereas Reggie is possessive of women, Troy seems to crave a partner; which is one of the qualities I think attracted him to Coco (and vice versa), and eventually drove them apart.

I suppose it is hard to make that judgment because we never actually saw them together. But I don't read Troy the way you do. I think he is conscious to an extent, but not like Sam, and I don't see a desire to do social justice work nor a desire for a true partner. To me, he comes off as a aimless playboy.  I think on the positive side, he is very understanding and genuinely wants everyone to get along, but I just don't think there is much to him, which I suppose is why I think he chooses women for superficial reasons.  I never got that he was attracted to coco because she was strong or for any other reason than she was hot, and for "reasons," she was not good enough for him to claim.

I'm also not sure why you think he isn't colorstruck but Reggie is. Assuming this follows the movie, Troy only publicly dates white women and a biracial woman, but is willing to sleep with darker skinned women. We don't really know that Reggie is colorstruck because we haven't seen his previous love interests. 

I admit I'm not a troy fan.  Unlike the other characters, I feel he gets by on looks and name only.  I really only liked him during moments when he was nice to Lionel and CoCo, other than that he was just...blah.  I think his character needs a lot of work next season.  

Edited May 8, 2017 by dirtypop90

[Dee]

Quote

I suppose it is hard to make that judgment because we never actually saw them together. But I don't read Troy the way you do. I think he is conscious to an extent but not like Sam, and I don't see a desire to do social justice work.   I think on the positive side, he is very understanding and genuinely wants everyone to get along, but I just don't think there is much to him, which I suppose is why I think he chooses women for superficial reasons.  To me, he comes off as a aimless playboy. I never got that he was attracted to coco because she was strong or for any other reason than she was hot, and for "reasons," she was not good enough for him to claim.

I actually don't it's that difficult to make that judgement, if only because he chose Sam prior to knowing how his father would react, which is also the reason he stopped seeing Sam altogether. I think he is every bit as conscious as Sam, but he's not as self conscious as Sam, who uses activism to work through her identity issues.

There is very much a desire on Troy's end to do social justice work; but unlike the more radical bent of BSU, or CoCo's mantra of self preservation, Troy is also willing to work within the system to make change happen. He, has a love hate relationship with leadership because he understands that trying to please everyone is a zero sum game, which is why he's just as prone to wilt under his friends opinions as he is his father's, but he's also nowhere near in the same league as Kelsey, who is the queen of 'wanting everyone to get along.'

Troy's initial attraction to Coco is largely sexual, and, while they maintain a healthy sexual relationship, he does express affection for her & dates her in public. In fact, the reason they break up is not because she's ambitious or that he's commitment-phobic, but because he accepts that she doesn't want him. Which is why, when an angry Coco asserts that she can do better than him, he agrees with her instead of slamming her.

54 minutes ago, dirtypop90 said:

I'm also not sure why you think he isn't colorstruck but Reggie is. Assuming this follows the movie, Troy only publicly dates white women and a biracial woman, but is willing to sleep with darker skinned women. We don't really know that Reggie is colorstruck because we haven't seen his previous love interests. 

Reggie is colorstruck because, while he might not address it outright, he clearly is aware Joelle has feelings for him imo. He also knows Sam is very ambivalent about their relationship (long before she even began dating Gabe), yet, all he can do is pine after Sam (while bragging about wanting to be with a darkskinned woman) while Joelle (who he studiously ignores) goes out of her way to cheer him up. It isn't until Sam makes it abundantly clear that Gabe is her priority that Reggie begins to acknowledge Joelle's vibes.

Of all the women Troy is with, during the show, the only one who's lightskinned is Sam. The other two (Coco & Neika) are both deep brown. And all three women are very strong, outspoken personalities.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Dee

[BoogieBurns]

16 hours ago, Neurochick said:

 I wish they'd done an episode from Joelle's POV though.

I really wanted more of Joelle too. Next season I hope, she seems like a great friend. But in no way is she solely a sidekick. Nuh uh, let's see her life.