S01.E07: They Came First

[phoenics]

(Note that she brought Tip into her brothel but made it clear that she was not a whore.)

Hahaha!  I just got a flashback of that line from Blades of Glory!!  "And this is my best friends' girl Katie!!  And she is NOT a whore!!"

Edited February 12, 2017 by phoenics

[attica]

1 hour ago, jhlipton said:

for every woman I know, the bra comes off when she walks through the door!

Or as I call it, Fritatas!  (Free Ta-tas...geddit?)

[phoenics]

1 hour ago, Lord Donia said:

Interesting. I hadn't considered that.

Since Roan was one of the Wizard's guards, was he there as a spy for Glinda? How did he get jiggy with Glinda in the first place? We've only seen her surrounded by and interacting with females, so I'm curious how Roan became part of her circle.

Me too.  Also - I've been rewatching the season and the way Lucas killed Mombi or whatever her name was - it's almost like he had some kind of pent up rage for a witch along with his anger that she was trying to kill Dorothy.  That could be a sign of repressed anger/rage for Glinda because he's not really there of his own free will.

Or - it could just signal that he's really a bad dude - or was - before he swallowed that rock that made him lose all memory of who or what he was.

Another thought is:  is Mother South really alive?  Or has Glinda found a way to birth witches?  Is Glinda having these witches?  Due to her relations with Roan?  Or has she found some other witch who can bear witches?

Also - Glinda is a hypocrite.  She has that whole nunnery thing going based on being chaste and untouched and here she is, cavorting with a dude.  

[NorthstarATL]

1 hour ago, phoenics said:

Me too.  Also - I've been rewatching the season and the way Lucas killed Mombi or whatever her name was - it's almost like he had some kind of pent up rage for a witch along with his anger that she was trying to kill Dorothy.  That could be a sign of repressed anger/rage for Glinda because he's not really there of his own free will.

Or - it could just signal that he's really a bad dude - or was - before he swallowed that rock that made him lose all memory of who or what he was.

Another thought is:  is Mother South really alive?  Or has Glinda found a way to birth witches?  Is Glinda having these witches?  Due to her relations with Roan?  Or has she found some other witch who can bear witches?

Also - Glinda is a hypocrite.  She has that whole nunnery thing going based on being chaste and untouched and here she is, cavorting with a dude.  

Maybe Mombi's witchery went both ways, and Roan was kept as a girl for a time...until the hunkiness set in and caught Glinda's eye?

[Camera One]

I didn't like this episode.  A lot of it was tedious, especially with Dorothy, Lucas and the girl's endless journey.  I also didn't find the mass death of women to be entertaining.  The only positive thing about this episode was West finally showing a bit of depth.  I'm not sure what we're supposed to think of the Jack/Ev stuff. or if there's a point to it.  The whole episode felt like a bunch of sex and violence filmed in a pretty setting.

[KingOfHearts]

49 minutes ago, Camera One said:

I didn't like this episode.  A lot of it was tedious, especially with Dorothy, Lucas and the girl's endless journey.  I also didn't find the mass death of women to be entertaining.  The only positive thing about this episode was West finally showing a bit of depth.  I'm not sure what we're supposed to think of the Jack/Ev stuff. or if there's a point to it.  The whole episode felt like a bunch of sex and violence filmed in a pretty setting.

It really just felt like saturated shock value. Other than the West/Tip stuff, it was all begging for reactions from the audience. Are we supposed to be rooting for Jack/Ev, feeling betrayed by Glinda/Roan, and angry at the Wizard? The answers are a little too on-the-nose. I felt manipulated in this episode.

I thought it highlighted a major problem with the show in general - there's just not enough substance. The characters are not well-developed, the plot pretends to be important but just runs at snail speed, and the setup is really not all that interesting to begin with. The visuals and the scale make it seem like it's some grand epic, but it's just... stiff.

Edited February 12, 2017 by KingOfHearts

[Fireball]

So that scene where Jack tries to console Lady Ev in the carriage and Lady Ev is having none of it.

Jack: I'm sorry for your loss.
Lady Ev: He wasn't my loss, he was my father.
Jack: I'm sorry he died.
Lady Ev: He didn't die, he was murdered.

It's people like Lady Ev that make me stress out about writing the "right" thing in sympathy cards.

[tennisgurl]

I still love all the visuals of this show so very much. Every shot is beautiful. I especially loved the house turning around. It looked awesome.

The rest of it was kind of odd. I did like West here though. She actually seems like she might be our good guy, at least compared to everyone else in power here. She might be a drugged out torture happy nut, but she does seem to be TRYING to help people, and she feels bad about deaths she felt she caused. At this point, I`ll take it.

I like Lucas and Dorothy, and I have no idea where they go from here.

Edited February 13, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Black Knight]

I felt like this episode strongly hinted at Eamon being the Cowardly Lion, in that they showed him uncomfortable with the Wizard's plan to round up all the girls, yet not having the courage for any real rebellion against it.

I had to laugh when the Wizard was waxing on about his "beloved" council - he's just so unapologetically shameless with his lies. And then declaring that witches are the Beast Forever. West, you really picked the wrong side there, though she appears to have wised up. I'm not really sure why she's so mad at Glinda about the witches dying against the Beast Forever - the Beast Forever had to be stopped or it was going to drown Oz and its people, it's not like Glinda sent them for some unsavory, selfish purpose. It's awful that they all died, but when you have witches, it's reasonable to try using them in such a crisis. Not that I think Glinda is any more the good side than the Wizard, but that particular complaint of West's, I don't understand. She has other, more legitimate, reasons to be mad at Glinda.

I wish the preview for this episode hadn't given away Roan/Glinda. I don't like when previews give away twists to begin with, but it's especially nuts to give away a twist that happens literally in the final minute of the episode. That said, I'm finding Roan/Lucas interesting so far. Yes, he told Glinda the truth about Dorothy's plan, but he also mentioned the many times Dorothy saved him and asked that she not be harmed. And then there was his throwing "they came first" in Dorothy's face. This guy seems to be a mix of Roan and Lucas rather than just Roan fully back.

[Tim Thomason]

"People don't revolt when they're scared. Only when they're angry."

Really, Wizard, that's your takeaway? I believe it was Yoda who said that Fear leads to Anger. They might not be willing or able to revolt when you held their daughters as hostage, but your King Herod routine shouldn't really net you any new supporters. Now that their daughters are back, and you started both a proverbial and literal witch hunt, things may not end up so rosy in the Emerald City.

I feel these actions in particular may make things not end very well for the Wizard. He won't be flying away in a hot-air balloon when all is said and done.

[rubinia]

15 hours ago, Black Knight said:

I felt like this episode strongly hinted at Eamon being the Cowardly Lion, in that they showed him uncomfortable with the Wizard's plan to round up all the girls, yet not having the courage for any real rebellion against it.

Isn't Eamon featured in the promo image of the cast? I guess I've been assuming all along that he's meant to be the Cowardly Lion, although I wasn't sure what made him so.  He definitely has the hair that implies a "mane," even if it's not golden.

Edited February 13, 2017 by rubinia

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Emerald City Shakes Off The Rust

The show still hasn't given us a Cowardly Lion -- but Glinda's a cougar!

[WearyTraveler]

5 hours ago, rubinia said:

Isn't Eamon featured in the promo image of the cast? I guess I've been assuming all along that he's meant to be the Cowardly Lion, although I wasn't sure what made him so.  He definitely has the hair that implies a "mane," even if it's not golden.

There have been two things that make me think Eamon is the Lion.  The first one was when those soldiers that were rebelling against him were found dead.  It was heavily implied that Eamon found out and killed them, then he said to the soldier that found the bodies that they had probably been killed by a lion.

The second thing (blink and you missed it) was a huge painting (maybe a mural?) in his house; when he took Roan there, you could see the image was of a lion in a field.

In addition to those two things, we're in episode 7 of a 10 episode season, and all the other characters have been established within the cast that we have seen on screen: Dorothy, Toto, Scarecrow, Tin Man, Wizard, Cardinal Witches (except for Mother South whom we haven't seen), Lady Ev, Mombi, Hidden Princes supposed to rule... It would be strange if they were to introduce a new actor to be the Lion now, so, it seems Eamon it is.

ETA: As for the "coward" part, maybe it is that he lacks the courage to defy the Wizard, even though he knows that most of what the Wizard does is not good.

Edited February 13, 2017 by WearyTraveler

[Glade]

I think the little witch girl they've been traveling with is the cowardly lion--she certainly combines fear and vulnerability with extreme, ferocious power.

[ArcheryLefty]

On 2/11/2017 at 2:50 PM, JenE4 said:

I don't know. I always thought it a bit odd that he acts like an old man with arthritis with his stiff joints, like his arms and legs do hurt him. Maybe he was all shredded up from the fall, but his guts were just poured into the metal like an exoskeleton, but he still has nerves inside? I think we are over analyzing, lol.

 I tend to over analyze too but that makes me the person I am. Remember how he crushed the glass? He has no sensation in his metal extremities except at the point where they connect with his human body. He literally can't feel how hard he grips something.  He can only understand this by watching his hand or feet. He essentially is walking on stilts.

If you look at the gears inside his legs (poor design no wonder he has a rust problem) you can see that his left leg was removed just below the hip and his right one was removed just above the knee and his arm was removed just below the shoulder.

The construction is why he carries his arm bent and not by his side. The arm swing is what helps us balance. He is uneven and his metal joints are less fluid than human ones so he staggers a little. He manages stairs well and can jog a little on pavement, uneven ground is more difficult because he has no sensation in his feet.

He is also probably in pain and still healing remember this happened less than 2 months ago. Broken bones usually take at least 2 months to heal as due amputations. Especially a triple!! Amputation and a replaced heart and ribcage. His chest and three limbs were squished like a grape from that horrible fall and his chest was cracked wide open to complete his heart and ribcage replacement. Talk about ouch!!

So yes I believe he has all his original man parts and they work just fine. 

This is where magic connects with science. His skin is healing, he doesn't have raw sore skin wherever the metal and straps touch him. The rust was not permanent and is easily controlled by oil. He did not bleed out or get spinal or head injuries from that fall and apparently no PTSD. Humans of Oz/Ev are protected by magic even if they aren't inherently magical. All of those windmill sculptures are they powered by magic? He fell right near one. Interesting to think about. 

He is shyer now than he was when he was fully human and able bodied. Remember how impulsive he was with Tip?  He hides it well but he is disabled. He is having HUGE body image issues and considers himself "freakish". He doesn't particularly like being touched right now especially when immobilized by rust.

That was not consent even if his body reacted favorably. He is a slave and is really upset about being owned and manipulated. She also pushed him out of the carriage and left him fallen in mud when she knows that he is still adjusting to his body. Yet she does come back for him, but does she say that she was sorry for the shit way she treated him when he was trying to be kind to him?

 No. She laughs at him then takes advantage of him, teasing him while he is immobile even as she gives him her word. She just has no clue how to treat people. That is kind of the point. She has no clue but does she even think of him as a person vs a posession or a really cool new toy?