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S06.E02: Trust Me Knot

formerlyfreedom

By formerlyfreedom
in Grimm [V]

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

2 hours ago, Darklazr said:

The whole point of Kelly taking Diana was so that she would not be used by the Royal's or Adalind.  So, it makes sense that Renard would not use his (Eric's) kid to go after Nick or anyone else.  I am thinking in the end that Renard may have been running a long con.  Oh, hell, we know the show is not about to go this entertaining route!

It was Kelly's belief that Diana needed to be raised away from the Royals and the Resistance.  I never really understood why Kelly didn't take Adalind with her, except that maybe she knew that Adalind couldn't be trusted (and....she was right on that one!)  Renard, however, just didn't want Diana with the Royals.  He was the one who set up the whole plan for the Resistance to take her so, I can't see why he would all of a sudden be against that.  Kelly had noble, but misguided, intentions towards Diana, but Renard's were more self-serving, and they just happened to line up with Kelly's plan.

So, with that in mind, I don't see any reason why he would *not* be willing to use Diana at this point.  She's now finally his and he can harness her power for his desires.

HunterHunted

HunterHunted

57 minutes ago, Prevailing Wind said:

I giggle everytime I see or hear "The Stick" - it's just so pedestrian for such a "powerful" relic. Couldn't they have found a better name than "The Stick" ???  Oh, wait.  No. Not these writers. Never mind.

It is really pedestrian. Even a moniker like "The Object" or "The Relic" conveys far more gravitas.

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LittleIggy

LittleIggy

Fun fact: I was reading "The Yellow Wallpaper" again in advance of teaching it this semester. A doctor named Weir Mitchell was mentioned in it. I did some online research and turns out that the story's author was a patient of the historical Dr. Silas Weir Mitchell, neurologist and advocate of "bed rest" for those with nervous dispositions. And, yes, our dear SWM is his descendant!

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ChromaKelly

ChromaKelly

So, we had the Elder Wand/Ring, an Unbreakable Vow, and next week the return of Polyjuice Potion. We've also got Death Eaters - I mean Black Claw - who want to live free and not have to hide themselves from muggles. 
I'm still here to ride it out, but yeah I don't even really know what's going on anymore with Black Claw, Hadrian's Wall, the Royals. I don't know why Renard is evil now. 

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Darklazr

Darklazr

(edited)
15 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

It was Kelly's belief that Diana needed to be raised away from the Royals and the Resistance.  I never really understood why Kelly didn't take Adalind with her, except that maybe she knew that Adalind couldn't be trusted (and....she was right on that one!)  Renard, however, just didn't want Diana with the Royals.  He was the one who set up the whole plan for the Resistance to take her so, I can't see why he would all of a sudden be against that.  Kelly had noble, but misguided, intentions towards Diana, but Renard's were more self-serving, and they just happened to line up with Kelly's plan.

So, with that in mind, I don't see any reason why he would *not* be willing to use Diana at this point.  She's now finally his and he can harness her power for his desires.

Renard told Viktor and Adalind he gave Diana to Kelly so that she would not be used, so I took it that he meant his family and Adalind.

Adalind wondered why Kelly was taking her back to Portland in the first place.  I still think Diana should have died and that would have put an end to the uber powerful baby snowflake mess.  Adalind could have gone back to her law firm and eventually ended up with Meisner during the BC / HW story.  There would have been no need to RAPE the male lead or have a rape baby!

Edited by Darklazr
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iMonrey

iMonrey

Quote

How can Adalind even take Diana out anywhere if she doesn't talk to her or explain that she needs to keep her powers under wrap in public and isn't supposed to kill people with her powers except in self defense?

This bugs me too. It's like everyone is too afraid of her to try to talk sense to her. Adalind is a Hexenbiest - she may not be as powerful as Diana for some reason, but she still has powers. We saw that in this episode. Even Samantha was able to discipline Tabitha by constantly reminding her not to use her powers. Someone needs to explain to Diana that what she did to kill the campaign manager and Bonaparte was bad otherwise she's a very dangerous loose cannon. Surely they can see that.

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

13 hours ago, Darklazr said:

Renard told Viktor and Adalind he gave Diana to Kelly so that she would not be used, so I took it that he meant his family and Adalind.

 

Right, he didn't want Adalind or the Royals to use Diana.  However, my guess is that new uber-evil Renard wouldn't have any problem with using partnering with his own daughter.  She is, after all, his daughter--even if that is mathematically/chronologically impossible by the show's own timeline (just like it is mathematically/chronologically impossible for Kelly to be Nick's son....but we aren't supposed to think that hard at all about this show.)

 

12 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This bugs me too. It's like everyone is too afraid of her to try to talk sense to her. Adalind is a Hexenbiest - she may not be as powerful as Diana for some reason, but she still has powers. We saw that in this episode. Even Samantha was able to discipline Tabitha by constantly reminding her not to use her powers. Someone needs to explain to Diana that what she did to kill the campaign manager and Bonaparte was bad otherwise she's a very dangerous loose cannon. Surely they can see that.

And don't forget that the last thing we saw of Kelly when she drove off with baby Diana was her saying, "We're going to have to teach you not to do that in public!"?  Did the writers not see any episodes of this show before s5e1?

Darklazr

Darklazr

4 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Right, he didn't want Adalind or the Royals to use Diana.  However, my guess is that new uber-evil Renard wouldn't have any problem with using partnering with his own daughter.  She is, after all, his daughter--even if that is mathematically/chronologically impossible by the show's own timeline (just like it is mathematically/chronologically impossible for Kelly to be Nick's son....but we aren't supposed to think that hard at all about this show.)

I just don't see Renard using a child, especially one that is supposed to be his.  Yeah, the show sucks with timelines and clear writing.

3 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

And don't forget that the last thing we saw of Kelly when she drove off with baby Diana was her saying, "We're going to have to teach you not to do that in public!"?  Did the writers not see any episodes of this show before s5e1?

Sigh.  It is just plain stupid how the show does NOT use any continuity and expect fans to just blindly ignore their storytelling.

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HunterHunted

HunterHunted

1 hour ago, OtterMommy said:

And don't forget that the last thing we saw of Kelly when she drove off with baby Diana was her saying, "We're going to have to teach you not to do that in public!"?  Did the writers not see any episodes of this show before s5e1?

15 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

I just don't see Renard using a child, especially one that is supposed to be his.  Yeah, the show sucks with timelines and clear writing.

Sigh.  It is just plain stupid how the show does NOT use any continuity and expect fans to just blindly ignore their storytelling.

 

These posts remind me of Demian's recaps of Charmed on TWoP. He'd recap the plot point and highlight the continuity error. He'd keep a running tally of the errors. By the end of the run, he'd point out continuity errors and just write CANCELLED!

That's how I feel about Grimm. Why is any of action and plot happening? Who cares. CANCELLED!

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

This bugs me too. It's like everyone is too afraid of her to try to talk sense to her. Adalind is a Hexenbiest - she may not be as powerful as Diana for some reason, but she still has powers. We saw that in this episode. 

That makes sense to me, it's like the Twilight Zone episode with the kid with powers. Right now, Adiland is still trying to feel Diana out. If I was Adiland I'd worry about Crazy Creepy super powered little girl throwing a tantrum and sending me to the corn field.

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ShadowFacts

ShadowFacts

1 minute ago, Morrigan2575 said:

That makes sense to me, it's like the Twilight Zone episode with the kid with powers. Right now, Adiland is still trying to feel Diana out. If I was Adiland I'd worry about Crazy Creepy super powered little girl throwing a tantrum and sending me to the corn field.

Exactly.  She likes baby Kelly . . . for now.  I mean, the kid may not be full-on evil, but she's doing more than just figuring out her powers, she knows how to smother a person and voodoo a dagger through a chest.  Look out, mama. 

Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

4 minutes ago, Enigma X said:

Lots of things bother me about this show, but here is one. Diana is 3/4 hexenbiest. Is she an exceptional one? Does she not behave (as far as her abilities) like the average hexenbiest? I ask because Adalind is a full hexenbiest, and Diana's abilities seem to even surprise Adalind. Why is that?

Diana is super special due to Adiland using some serious (evil?) Mojo in order to get her powers back during her pregnancy. 

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

3 hours ago, Enigma X said:

Lots of things bother me about this show, but here is one. Diana is 3/4 hexenbiest. Is she an exceptional one? Does she not behave (as far as her abilities) like the average hexenbiest? I ask because Adalind is a full hexenbiest, and Diana's abilities seem to even surprise Adalind. Why is that?

Hexenbiests make no sense.  As far as we know, Adalind is the only full and natural hexenbiest regularly on this show, and she's completely useless.  Eve is a "created" hexenbiest and she soooper-powerfulllll.  Diana is a 1/2-3/4 hexenbiest (I know the show *tells* us Renard is her father, but it has *shown* us that Eric is), and she's even more soooper-powerfullllll.  Renard is 1/2 zauberbiest and I'm not sure what his powers are other than looking ugly when he needs to and slightly enhanced strength (Yes, he's definitely cunning, but I don't think you have to be magical to be cunning).  We've seen 3 other hexenbiests (not including the beesting victims in season 1...I'm not counting them).  We've seen Elizabeth who has...made a potion and saved her son with some sort of snake and Henrietta, who knew stuff but was still offed pretty darn easily.  Really, we don't know much about their powers at all.  Oh wait, we also saw Stephania and Frau Peche.  Again, Frau Peche didn't seem remarkable and we only know that Stephania was a hexenbiest due to one throwaway line.  

So, no, I don't know why Adalind seems so surprised with Diana's abilities and why she seems unable to get Diana to curb them (other than she's one of THOSE parents....Or maybe she's just a crap parent.  She did, after all, sell her own child.  The show may have forgotten that, but the viewers haven't).  Honestly, Monroe and Rosalee did more parenting in their two scenes tonight than I've seen Adalind do yet (although, I didn't watch season 5...so, you know...)

 

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

11 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

Hexenbiests make no sense.  As far as we know, Adalind is the only full and natural hexenbiest regularly on this show, and she's completely useless.  Eve is a "created" hexenbiest and she soooper-powerfulllll.  Diana is a 1/2-3/4 hexenbiest (I know the show *tells* us Renard is her father, but it has *shown* us that Eric is), and she's even more soooper-powerfullllll.  Renard is 1/2 zauberbiest and I'm not sure what his powers are other than looking ugly when he needs to and slightly enhanced strength (Yes, he's definitely cunning, but I don't think you have to be magical to be cunning).  We've seen 3 other hexenbiests (not including the beesting victims in season 1...I'm not counting them).  We've seen Elizabeth who has...made a potion and saved her son with some sort of snake and Henrietta, who knew stuff but was still offed pretty darn easily.  Really, we don't know much about their powers at all.  Oh wait, we also saw Stephania and Frau Peche.  Again, Frau Peche didn't seem remarkable and we only know that Stephania was a hexenbiest due to one throwaway line.  

So, no, I don't know why Adalind seems so surprised with Diana's abilities and why she seems unable to get Diana to curb them (other than she's one of THOSE parents....Or maybe she's just a crap parent.  She did, after all, sell her own child.  The show may have forgotten that, but the viewers haven't).  Honestly, Monroe and Rosalee did more parenting in their two scenes tonight than I've seen Adalind do yet (although, I didn't watch season 5...so, you know...)

 

Diana's super Hexenbeist powers make perfect sense given the events during Adiland's pregnancy.

In order to get her powers back Adiland (helps to) kill Frau Pech, chopped her up, plucked out her eyes and buried her body parts in a field which killed all the flowers. She then had to pick all the magically killed flowers, put them in Frau Pech's carcass, wait for the flowers and Frau Pech's organs to liquefy, turning them into a paste which she rubbed on her belly every night. A paste which when applied formed a skull on her stomach and later the baby was shown to have an evil skull like form (against her belly). Plus we saw that Diana was using her powers even in womb to protect herself and Adiland (magically killing a Verrat when they came to kidnap her, setting off electricity in a cafe, etc)

There's nothing In Show that says Diana is just a 3/4 or 1/2 Hexenbeist.  Everything in show says that Diana is special because of the (dark) magic used during Adiland's pregnancy. 

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iMonrey

iMonrey

Quote

That makes sense to me, it's like the Twilight Zone episode with the kid with powers. Right now, Adiland is still trying to feel Diana out. If I was Adiland I'd worry about Crazy Creepy super powered little girl throwing a tantrum and sending me to the corn field.

Except the kid from "It's A Good Life" went unchallenged because nobody else had any powers. That's not the case here, and Diana so far doesn't seem to be all powerful. She has telekinetic powers, can astral project and can control people with voodoo dolls. We haven't seen her teleport herself or anyone else away or just flat-out mind-control people. Adalind should be able to guide and discipline her, or they should be able to come up with a potion to de-power her.

At the very least I'd like to see them try. "No, no, sweetie - mustn't levitate those jars. You might drop one and they are valuable." Just tell the kid "please don't do that" for once. Sheesh.

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

11 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Diana's super Hexenbeist powers make perfect sense given the events during Adiland's pregnancy.

In order to get her powers back Adiland (helps to) kill Frau Pech, chopped her up, plucked out her eyes and buried her body parts in a field which killed all the flowers. She then had to pick all the magically killed flowers, put them in Frau Pech's carcass, wait for the flowers and Frau Pech's organs to liquefy, turning them into a paste which she rubbed on her belly every night. A paste which when applied formed a skull on her stomach and later the baby was shown to have an evil skull like form (against her belly). Plus we saw that Diana was using her powers even in womb to protect herself and Adiland (magically killing a Verrat when they came to kidnap her, setting off electricity in a cafe, etc)

There's nothing In Show that says Diana is just a 3/4 or 1/2 Hexenbeist.  Everything in show says that Diana is special because of the (dark) magic used during Adiland's pregnancy. 

Responding in the everything wrong thread...

Darklazr

Darklazr

On 1/15/2017 at 1:58 PM, HunterHunted said:

These posts remind me of Demian's recaps of Charmed on TWoP. He'd recap the plot point and highlight the continuity error. He'd keep a running tally of the errors. By the end of the run, he'd point out continuity errors and just write CANCELLED!

That's how I feel about Grimm. Why is any of action and plot happening? Who cares. CANCELLED!

Primetime shows create around 22 new episodes each year and it makes no sense for their ever to be continuity issues.  Daytime soaps create 200 plus new episodes a year and fans still point out any continuity or retcon stories.

OtterMommy

OtterMommy

6 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

Primetime shows create around 22 new episodes each year and it makes no sense for their ever to be continuity issues.  Daytime soaps create 200 plus new episodes a year and fans still point out any continuity or retcon stories.

Yes!  I think the *excuse* for continuity issues is that they have different writers.  However, that excuse is completely invalid....there are these things called "episodes" that show what previous writers have done.  I think, and this applies to any show, that the thing that audiences pick up on and complain before anything else is continuity issues...and it should be the one thing that shows try to avoid at all costs.

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Darklazr

Darklazr

On 1/16/2017 at 9:01 PM, OtterMommy said:

Yes!  I think the *excuse* for continuity issues is that they have different writers.  However, that excuse is completely invalid....there are these things called "episodes" that show what previous writers have done.  I think, and this applies to any show, that the thing that audiences pick up on and complain before anything else is continuity issues...and it should be the one thing that shows try to avoid at all costs.

BS.  There are at least eight or more writers per soap (four soaps currently run on daytime) and these folks shell out copious amount of dialogue five days a week.  B&B is the only 30 minute soap and there are at least six writers (maybe more).  GH used to have one writer assigned to continuity and that person is still on the show, but it still has continuity issues with way too many cooks (IIC) in the fire.  

If a primetime show changes writers, then it is up to the writer to watch previous episodes before shelling out a story.

On 1/16/2017 at 9:30 PM, jhlipton said:

You had to bring that up.  You just had to bring that up.  Don't be silly, though -- we can believe in werewolves and Grimms and Hexenbiests, but black women in fantasy -- get real, Jack!

I was furious when they killed off Henrietta!  I kept waiting on the show to give us more of the backstory that Henrietta helped Elizabeth and Renard when the moved to Portland.

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

2 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

I was furious when they killed off Henrietta!  I kept waiting on the show to give us more of the backstory that Henrietta helped Elizabeth and Renard when the moved to Portland.

I'll admit I wasn't upset when they killed her off...by that point, she had already become a ridiculous character with no purpose. I was upset that they would introduce a character with such potential and then did...nothing..with her.

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Darklazr

Darklazr

2 hours ago, OtterMommy said:

I'll admit I wasn't upset when they killed her off...by that point, she had already become a ridiculous character with no purpose. I was upset that they would introduce a character with such potential and then did...nothing..with her.

I really liked the actress and kept waiting for them to pull Henrietta into whatever was going on at the Spice Shop.  It made no sense for Renard not to take the book / hat to Henrietta instead of Rosalie/Monroe when he was having his phantom bleeding or to have Juliette open up the book.  This show makes no sense most of the time!

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OtterMommy

OtterMommy

Just now, Darklazr said:

I really liked the actress and kept waiting for them to pull Henrietta into whatever was going on at the Spice Shop.  It made no sense for Renard not to take the book / hat to Henrietta instead of Rosalie/Monroe when he was having his phantom bleeding or to have Juliette open up the book.  This show makes no sense most of the time!

Most of the time?

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withanaich

withanaich

I think we're supposed to believe that she hasn't killed Nick because he's "Kelly's daddy." That seems to be her only context for him. "That's Kelly's daddy, right? I like Kelly." "You're Kelly's daddy, aren't you?" It's like the only thing Adalind has made clear to Diana. Not why killing people is wrong, not why she shouldn't try to force Mommy and Daddy to be together, not reassuring her that even if they aren't together they love her anyway (whether that's true or not, it's probably what this insecure, scary-ass kid needs to hear), no. Just We Must Help Kelly's Daddy. Why hasn't Adalind's overwhelming WUV for Nick pissed Diana off yet? Who knows? The writers don't. 

Darklazr

Darklazr

2 hours ago, withanaich said:

I think we're supposed to believe that she hasn't killed Nick because he's "Kelly's daddy." That seems to be her only context for him. "That's Kelly's daddy, right? I like Kelly." "You're Kelly's daddy, aren't you?" It's like the only thing Adalind has made clear to Diana. Not why killing people is wrong, not why she shouldn't try to force Mommy and Daddy to be together, not reassuring her that even if they aren't together they love her anyway (whether that's true or not, it's probably what this insecure, scary-ass kid needs to hear), no. Just We Must Help Kelly's Daddy. Why hasn't Adalind's overwhelming WUV for Nick pissed Diana off yet? Who knows? The writers don't. 

Adalind told Diana that she can not force her and Renard together when she caught the special snowflake with those stupid dolls.  I don't remember if the scene was before or after Rachel's death.

withanaich

withanaich

My bad. Adalind did do some parenting that one time. I had forgotten about that, and I don't remember if it was before or after Rachel died, either. Maybe Adalind should sit Diana down and explain WHY she shouldn't act on her every impulse, or that other people are real and have feelings too, and maybe it's not nice to smother and stab folks.

But if someone made an effort to explain morality or the importance of keeping secrets to this kid, we probably wouldn't get the deus ex Diana that is surely coming where she saves the day and all of Portland at the end of the series. 

ShadowFacts

ShadowFacts

24 minutes ago, withanaich said:

But if someone made an effort to explain morality or the importance of keeping secrets to this kid, we probably wouldn't get the deus ex Diana that is surely coming where she saves the day and all of Portland at the end of the series. 

Her parents are pretty morally challenged/lacking/compromised, so I can't see them pulling it off, plus they're a little scared of her.  Not a good parent-child dynamic.  Everybody the kid currently likes is safe, but everybody else is not. 

Darklazr

Darklazr

5 hours ago, Dobian said:

Someone please give that kid four hand grenades to levitate and tell her to pull the pins out so they make sparkles while they go outside to check the mail.

Thank you!  I have been advocating for Diana's death before she was even born and for Adalind to have some consequences for her nasty behaviors (which are too long to mention)!

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withanaich

withanaich

I think that's when I knew the end was nigh. Not when Nick fell in "love" with his rapist or when Juliette burned the trailer down. No, it was when Diana came back to town. I really thought they'd seen the error of their ways when they sent Diana off with Kelly Burkhardt. Okay, you don't want to kill off a baby (that shouldn't have been written into the show in the first place), then fine, send her away. That should have been FOREVER. Then she came back, and I realized that they were doubling down on dumb, and the show would be off the air soon. Not only did they introduce baby bullshit -- repeatedly --they wasted an opportunity to fix it.

Every time I see Adalind just kickin' it with the rest of the gang, I cringe. She should have gotten some comeuppance, and losing her powers temporarily doesn't count.

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Darklazr

Darklazr

2 hours ago, withanaich said:

I think that's when I knew the end was nigh. Not when Nick fell in "love" with his rapist or when Juliette burned the trailer down. No, it was when Diana came back to town. I really thought they'd seen the error of their ways when they sent Diana off with Kelly Burkhardt. Okay, you don't want to kill off a baby (that shouldn't have been written into the show in the first place), then fine, send her away. That should have been FOREVER. Then she came back, and I realized that they were doubling down on dumb, and the show would be off the air soon. Not only did they introduce baby bullshit -- repeatedly --they wasted an opportunity to fix it.

Every time I see Adalind just kickin' it with the rest of the gang, I cringe. She should have gotten some comeuppance, and losing her powers temporarily doesn't count.

A dead Diana works for me, because the only baby should have been for Monroe/Rosalie during season 10 when the show goes off the air.  

Yeah.  Stupid, stupid, stupid.  Fine.  If you don't want to kill special uber snowflake Diana, then she should have remained gone forever offscreen with Kelly.  

Renard and Adalind have switched spots, because she is all Team Grimm which is a load of BS.  Adalind's consequences should have been no powers or NO baby Diana and she continues her evil ways before she's killed off.

Now, if at the end of the last 13 episodes and Adalind loses her powers once that stupid ring is removed and Diana morphs into Frau Pech hell bent on revenge, I will celebrate.  There is no way that Adalind or Juliette should end up with a HEA.  No.  Renard is his own worst enemy, so he will always end up alone.

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ShadowFacts

ShadowFacts

3 hours ago, withanaich said:

Every time I see Adalind just kickin' it with the rest of the gang, I cringe. She should have gotten some comeuppance, and losing her powers temporarily doesn't count.

Yes, and the gang shouldn't all have taken stupid pills.  At the very least, they should not trust her as far as they can throw her. 

withanaich

withanaich

Quote

Now, if at the end of the last 13 episodes and Adalind loses her powers once that stupid ring is removed and Diana morphs into Frau Pech hell bent on revenge, I will celebrate. 

Oh! I forgot about the ring! (And so have the writers, probably, so I guess I won't hold out hope that they take the ring off in the finale, only for Adalind to melt like the Wicked Witch of the West.)

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