Star Trek: Enterprise - General Discussion

[rogvortex58]

Going through my first rewatch. I’m really liking the Xindi arc in season 3.

Reminds me of the DS9 days of the Dominion being the ongoing story.

[Affogato]

On 2/21/2018 at 5:50 PM, Maverick said:

Once Trek moved to UPN, that's when we got Seven of Nine and T'pol's inappropriate wardrobe. The network thought it would entice young males to watch.  Characterization be damned, since it totally makes sense a former Borg with no experience with humanity and an emotionally repressed Vulcan would totally dress like a sexy space vamp.  

I think there were times when Troi would want to present herself as a confidant, not as a possibly superior officer. 

T'Pol's outfits  didn't seem to have a lot to do with how most Vulcan's dressed in the show and didn't seem to have a lot to do with how other women dressed in the show, making it doubly puzzling. During the period when she was on the ship and not in Starfleet not being in uniform made a little more sense. 

Edited April 12, 2020 by Affogato

[Affogato]

Both Enterprise and Voyager were on during times when I wasn't watching a lot of television, so I think I originally only saw some random first season episodes. 

I just watched the whole thing.

So, Porthos was a beagle and they like to run long distances in straight lines. It would be almost abusive to keep him shut up in that room and it bothered me that we didn't seem Archer and Porthos jogging and playing fetch in the corridors. 

I enjoyed the first season a fair bit, with the humans out running around the universe saying "Howdy." No sense of self preservation of any sort, but friendly. Like dogs, maybe. Humans, always metaphorically pissing on the sacred trees. We did see them learn what kind of citizens of the galaxy they wanted to be, through trial and error, and I liked that.

I liked Malcolm. First they try to find out what his favorite food is and no one knows. He rejects the whole party concept but is deeply moved when they make him a pineapple cake. There are people who don't know how to become intimate with others on even a fairly superficial level, not autistic, but normal people who haven't learned how to do it. When he runs into Hayes, as annoying as their interactions are, it makes sense. Hayes isn't necessarily better or worse than Malcolm but he has the easy way with people and charisma of leadership that makes them perform for him, and Malcolm struggles in that situation. He disagrees with Hayes overly violent training sessions, but Hayes makes the men like it (and so on). Malcolm standing up to area 31 is part of his self development. He doesn't become a different person but he becomes a more human one with real connections. I get that he isn't really likable, but I often have a fondness for characters that aren't really likable. There are a lot of people that aren't charismatic, funny and delightful, nice to see them in recurring roles.

 I think that there is a fair bit of believable character development on the show, mostly Malcolm and trip and Shram and Archer. T'Pol and Hoshi seem less solid, as if they  kept on forgetting about them. I never got a real sense of there being a big supporting cast, of it being an actual start ship. The doctor had a medical staff but we only saw the one. 

The second and third season seemed to take a long time to get through, and the fourth season was definitely better. 

I didn't mind the last episode as much as many people. I would probably hated it more if I’d. Een watching the show week by week. The scenes with Riker and Troi seemed distracting, but the scenes with Chef, with Riker being the Chef, worked and it would have been ok if he had actually been the Chef. I think Trip's death worked, but I wish they hadn't made it almost a throwaway in an overpacked episode and I really wish there had been some real meat to the T'Pol/Trip relationship, since they decided to have it. 

I liked it better than I liked Discovery, which I watched just before it. So there is that. 

 

Edited April 13, 2020 by Affogato

[Affogato]

On 1/16/2017 at 12:56 AM, SmithW6079 said:

Trip too. There was the episode where Trip saves the ship while he's dressed only in his underwear. 

And apparently regulation bright blue underwear. Very odd choice for a quasi military group, I thought. 

[FierceCritter]

I tried watching Enterprise when it first aired. I quickly bored with it and stopped watching after a few episodes. A recent resurgence of interest in all things Trek - plus a Netflix membership - had me go back and watch it from start to finish. I also read all the threads here in this forum.

I'm not a very critical viewer of TV or movies. If I'm entertained, it's all good. I'm also not much for looking into the motivations or "thoughts" of fictional characters. I tend to take it all at face value and not look for anything deeper. I'm capable of that kind of scrutiny, but then I'd enjoy very little of what I see and watch.  That's no fun.

I'm glad to see some people popping in here occasionally to comment. I wanted to chime in with a few thoughts.  In very scattered order.

Watching uncritically as I do, I can't really find much about Archer to get cranky about. Not saying any criticism or dislike isn't valid. I can't remember if he was the first captain on an exploration ship such as Enterprise. But if not the first, one of the first. In a program that was without precedent. He was pretty much flying blind, and having to figure things out as he went.  Dealing with trying to figure out what to do or how to handle issues and situations that had never existed before for humans. It makes sense to me that he'd struggle more than a bit and make mistakes. Plenty of them. 

Initially I couldn't stand T'Pol. But I came to really like her eventually. She, too, was dealing with something she and her entire species had little previous experience with. Though I found the whole "addicted T'Pol" thing a little silly, I nonetheless thought that her having permanent effects from having used the trellium-D was a pretty brilliant way for her to end up being able to feel and express emotions to a certain extent. It was a great way of giving her some depth - and enabling her relationship with Trip without her having human blood like Spock did. And I did like the TriP'ol shipping. It worked for me.

I was super pissed that they went the "couple can't make it work so at the end they've broken everything off" direction in the last episode. I really would have rather seen them still together, yet still having moments of "oh that T'Pol" and "Oh that Trip" with each other. 

I couldn't stand the theme song. Nothing new there. However, I did think the theme music used in the mirror world episodes would have made a great theme song. I'd love to see a YouTuber put that music with the original visuals to see if it would have really worked.

Ok. That last episode. I might not have been that upset about it if they hadn't killed off Trip. That was stupid and unnecessary. And a huge dump on the emotions of the fans. I wonder if I'd have had more upset with the episode overall if I wasn't already so pissed off about him being killed off. And yeah, I was spoiled about that beforehand by reading about it here. So I kind of went into the episode prepared to see that happen and be pissed. 

I absolutely loved "old" Porthos in the final episode. I might have squeed myself a little when I saw him.

Loved Shran. It was very cool seeing more of the Andorians and their homeworld. Just adored how he ended up with the family the way he did.

I am moderately feminist in viewpoint. But I generally don't get too riled up about anything. But I was almost laughing at all the outfits they stuck Jolene Blaylock in - and out of. Putting her perma-nipples on display in the decon scenes as well as the clothes-changing behind the sheet in the one where she plays a distant relative on earth in the past... omg. 

I did find myself kind of bored as the season-long stories played out. I got impatient with the temporal war and the time in the expanse. I am ok with that format, but I would have hated it if I had had to watch it episode by episode, week after week. 

I don't think I have much else on which to offer observations. I guess this jump started a total, all-series re-watch and first-time watch of shows I didn't bother with (DS9, etc). I also only made it through a few seasons of TNG, and wanted to re-watch that before diving into Picard, which I am patient enough to wait on. I am a couple episodes into Discovery. I'm not sure if I'll bother with re-watching TOS, I grew up watching it in reruns, so I'm familiar with most of what might be referenced in other shows. Might do it for fun and nostalgia anyway. As to the movies, also not sure I'll bother including them. We shall see.

On to the Discovery forum.

[ottoDbusdriver]

6 hours ago, FierceCritter said:

Ok. That last episode. I might not have been that upset about it if they hadn't killed off Trip. That was stupid and unnecessary. And a huge dump on the emotions of the fans. I wonder if I'd have had more upset with the episode overall if I wasn't already so pissed off about him being killed off. And yeah, I was spoiled about that beforehand by reading about it here. So I kind of went into the episode prepared to see that happen and be pissed. 

It's been nearly 15 years since the ST: Enterprise series finale, and totally agree -- I'm still pissed that they killed off Trip.

[KatWay]

I've been binge-watching all the Star Trek shows in order of broadcast date and am now watching S3 of Enterprise. I have to say, this is probably the most bland show so far, I feel like there's no standout characters and also no real standout episodes. It's fine, but nothing more. I can't believe at how sexualised poor T'Pol is, 50 years later and the treatment of female characters is still questionable. At least for some, cause Hoshi suffered more from being kind of forgotten most of the time (even though the actress was so pretty. Surprised they didn't push that at all, but they really were laser-focused on T'Pol as the sexy one, Vulcan or not).

as far as characters go, most are kind of underdeveloped. Or just barely there, as in Mayweather. Seriously, did he have anything to do after S1?

I wanted to like the season-long arc - the serialised DS9 was the best ST show in my opinion - but the Xindi are dead boring and the plot is all over the place.

Why is Star Trek so obsessed with time travel, it is almost always full of plotholes and confusing as hell. A temporal cold war? What is that even supposed to mean. Time travel just does not work, outside of very few episodes. Mostly the ones where they keep the timeline intact and just have some fun adventure in the past.  And they've overused it so much nothing even seems to matter anymore, cause I mean, people's relationships, amibitions, life achievements can all go poof in the next time jump.

[MisterGlass]

4 hours ago, KatWay said:

A temporal cold war? What is that even supposed to mean.

Yeah...the series was really hampered by that set up.  It's too hard to maintain in the long run.  The good news is (sorta spoiler)

Spoiler

that they wrap that up for good at the end of Episode 2 of Season 4.

I had similar feelings when I first watched Enterprise a couple years ago.  There were good one off episodes, but there was a lot of bland in the middle.  I also didn't care for the Xindi arc until late in the season.  For me, a few episodes into Season 4 the series suddenly stepped up in interest and quality.  Not perfect, but like the show figured out what it wanted to do.

I recently finished a 'good parts' rewatch of the series, and found I liked it fairly well. 

Don't know how much of this thread you've read, but think about skipping the series finale.

[ottoDbusdriver]

13 minutes ago, MisterGlass said:

Don't know how much of this thread you've read, but think about skipping the series finale.

Yeah, don't watch the series finale if you are sitting near any throwable objects because they will squarely aimed at your TV when

Spoiler

they kill off Trip for no reason at all.

I'm still pissed off at the writers/producers for that.  And it's been 15 years since the series finale.

 

[Maverick]

 Brannon Braga was the one who was really into time travel, so when became the show runner that's how we ended up with the Temporal Cold War.   One of the more annoying things for me was that they did a prequel series, yet insisted on revisiting things before their time, like the Borg and Ferengi, and twisting themselves into to knots as to why it wasn't a contradiction.  There were also a lot of retread plots (Oasis and Vanishing Point are glaring examples).   The Xindi arc overall was an improvement, but not without some real clunkers (Extinction caused the worst case of second hand embarrassment for the entire series, and perhaps all of Star Trek). 

 Sexualizing T'Pol was nothing new, given what they had done with Seven of Nine.  But it made even less sense for a Vulcan to dress like that than a human ex-Borg.  But one of the things they touted about this show was how it was going to be 'sexier'.   To their (small) credit while it wasn't done on a regular basis like with T'Pol, they treat the male cast as eye candy from time to time.  I did appreciate when they got Archer or Trip down to their skivvies.

Most of the shows had characters who were largely ignored by the writers.  Hoshi and especially Mayweather definitely dwelled in the Crusher/Kim/Chakotay character development basement.  DS9 was the only one that really utilized all their characters well.   

 I watched the show when it first aired and then not again until in syndication almost 15 years later.  I remember hating Tripp's ultimate fate and not caring for Archer, but when i started rewatching I wondered why.   Bakula was ok as Archer.   Not great, but ok.  But Tripp was a complete dbag asshole.   The way he tries to pass himself off as this good ole boy just joking with T'Pol was not pleasant to watch.  Season 3 is where things start to flip.   Whether it was because of the in-story loss of his sister or because the writers realized writing him as a  southern fried frat boy didn't work, Trip becomes much more tolerable.  Archer meanwhile just becomes this total dick.  Supposedly he's struggling with losing his humanity because the stakes are so high, but he just comes of as a bad actor who's come unhinged.   

 I do agree having a new showrunner in helped.  They started doing the kind of stories this show should have been doing.  What was the buildup to the Federation, how did these races come together, etc.  I didn't care for the Augments plot or the sequel to it that "explains" the human-looking Klingons but they were moving in the right direction.  Some of the stories planned for season 5 had potential too.   

[KatWay]

On 2/20/2021 at 2:14 AM, MisterGlass said:

I had similar feelings when I first watched Enterprise a couple years ago.  There were good one off episodes, but there was a lot of bland in the middle.  I also didn't care for the Xindi arc until late in the season.  For me, a few episodes into Season 4 the series suddenly stepped up in interest and quality.  Not perfect, but like the show figured out what it wanted to do.

Don't know how much of this thread you've read, but think about skipping the series finale.

I'm not sure I'm invested enough in the characters to care about deaths, though I generally dislike killing anybody off in a finale because it mostly feels cheap to me (unless it's a character who somehow full circle with a sacrifice or something, there are good examples but mostly not) and you never deal with the fallout. I'll see how I feel about it once I've finished the show!

6 hours ago, Maverick said:

 Brannon Braga was the one who was really into time travel, so when became the show runner that's how we ended up with the Temporal Cold War.   One of the more annoying things for me was that they did a prequel series, yet insisted on revisiting things before their time, like the Borg and Ferengi, and twisting themselves into to knots as to why it wasn't a contradiction.  There were also a lot of retread plots (Oasis and Vanishing Point are glaring examples).   The Xindi arc overall was an improvement, but not without some real clunkers (Extinction caused the worst case of second hand embarrassment for the entire series, and perhaps all of Star Trek).

 I watched the show when it first aired and then not again until in syndication almost 15 years later.  I remember hating Tripp's ultimate fate and not caring for Archer, but when i started rewatching I wondered why.   Bakula was ok as Archer.   Not great, but ok.  But Tripp was a complete dbag asshole.   The way he tries to pass himself off as this good ole boy just joking with T'Pol was not pleasant to watch.  Season 3 is where things start to flip.   Whether it was because of the in-story loss of his sister or because the writers realized writing him as a  southern fried frat boy didn't work, Trip becomes much more tolerable.  Archer meanwhile just becomes this total dick.  Supposedly he's struggling with losing his humanity because the stakes are so high, but he just comes of as a bad actor who's come unhinged.   

 I do agree having a new showrunner in helped.  They started doing the kind of stories this show should have been doing.  What was the buildup to the Federation, how did these races come together, etc.  I didn't care for the Augments plot or the sequel to it that "explains" the human-looking Klingons but they were moving in the right direction.  Some of the stories planned for season 5 had potential too.   

I agree that Trip became a better character and Archer just seems perpetually angry at this point. I think the actor just lacks charm, at least in this role.

idk I don't know if Exctinction gave me as much second hand embarrassment as some TOS and TNG episodes but it's definitely up there and it's also pretty terrible overall.

the whole figure out this new tech, build the federation is what I thought ENT would be about but instead it's about some temporal cold war and these Xindi people...and I found it cliché that the Reptilians and Insectoids were the "more evil" ones, and the ones who looked more like humans and the cute whale adjacent Aquatics were the nice Xindi. I'm looking forward to S4 if that's where things get better (before things get cancelled, of course).

[starri]

I always thought S4 was the show they should have been making all along.

If they hadn't stretched the Xindi story across 24 episodes, it would have been fantastic instead of just "very good."  

[paulvdb]

22 hours ago, KatWay said:

idk I don't know if Exctinction gave me as much second hand embarrassment as some TOS and TNG episodes but it's definitely up there and it's also pretty terrible overall.

I don't remember most episodes enough to say if I got second hand embarrassment from it, but it's certainly not the worst for me. That would be Sub Rosa, the only Trek episode I could never finish watching for that reason. Although I never could get into TOS so it's possible that it also had some episodes that would have done the same for me.

[QuantumMechanic]

I will go to my grave wishing I could have seen another Manny Cotto season of this show.  He had wrenched the show out of Berman dreck and put it on the way to a better place.  But too little, too late I guess.  Too bad -- I bet the next season, had it happened, would have been rather good.

[QuantumMechanic]

On 2/10/2018 at 7:44 PM, Pippin said:

And in the JJ Abrams movie, they were downright cruel to Spock.  Bullying him as a kid (no logical reason for that) and being condescending to him hen accepting him to the Science Academy.

In perhaps the best ST:TAS episode ("Yesteryear") child Spock was bullied mercilessly by other children because his mother was human and because he was "behind" on things (like being the only kid at his age who couldn't successfully do the nerve pinch).

[QuantumMechanic]

On 2/21/2021 at 12:06 AM, Maverick said:

 Most of the shows had characters who were largely ignored by the writers.  Hoshi and especially Mayweather definitely dwelled in the Crusher/Kim/Chakotay character development basement.  DS9 was the only one that really utilized all their characters well.

But we did get Empress Hoshi, though! :)