Star Trek - General Discussion

[dewelar]

17 hours ago, marinw said:

There’s a line in “Let that be your last Battlefield” that has always bugged me:

Kirk: “That (planet) is in the most southern part of the galaxy. In an uncharted area”

1. If the planet is in an uncharted area, how do they know where it is?

2. How does direction like North and South even apply here?

As for the episode itself, it is rather heavy-handed but sadly relevant today given recent events.

The first one is a bit of a puzzler, but the galaxy does have north and south coordinates.

[marinw]

Thank you @dewelar. I learn new things all the time!

[MagnusHex]

1x25: This Side of Paradise

This was a solid one. The concept laid the foundation well enough for the real appeal of the episode: exploring Spock's love life as a happy hippie. There's not much to say beyond that because the whole entertaining part of the hour is seeing a potential scenario where Spock could actually let his emotions grant him some form of happiness, even if it's, as George Takei put it in the VHS intro, "The crew on LSD."

Of course, happiness is a state of mind, and as evident from Sandoval's horror upon "waking up," the spores merely granted an illusional state of happiness. But that ambiguity is the fascinating part and why I love this show: the question of whether they were truly happy is up in the air. It's not like they were stuck in violent brawls everyday like Return of the Archons; most they suffered from was sloth.

Memorable lines include Kirk and McCoy's exchange when Kirk first found out about Spock's spore-state: "I thought you said you might like him if he mellowed a little," said Kirk to McCoy. Heh.

4.5/5

[chessiegal]

Star Trek is back on the MeTV Saturday night schedule in November.

[MagnusHex]

1x26: The Devil In The Dark

Just three episodes away from the season finale. Usually, this is the part where the TV promos go crazy, but this being an episodic kind of series, there's none of that. But I digress.

This was another solid one. My favorite part of the episode was, naturally, how they cleverly made the episode feel like a monster movie. Let's face it - it's Ridley Scott's Alien but on an even cheaper budget. What's clever, however, is how it subverts everything. The monster is just a protective mother, and Spock's Lance Henriksen Weyland-Yutani role as the "We must capture the monster alive!" scientist was quickly subverted when Jim's life was put in danger. If only John Hurt got to communicate with the Xenomorph. Who knows what might happen? The fact is, this is what separates Star Trek from Star Wars: the diplomacy, whereas in Wars, the good guys would just fry the aliens and be granted a medal of honor, hailed as heroes. But I digress.

Another brilliant subversion here is Kirk, the usual shoot-first type like Han Solo, but instead chose diplomacy instead (whereas Spock, who suggested capturing the Horta alive at first, encouraged Kirk to defend his life by killing the alien). This is merely one of many stark displays of Kirk as more than just a mindless brute who goes around shooting everybody. He forces the gun when necessary, but lends a hand when given the choice. Of course, if his crew is threatened, however... you better duck and hide.

And let's not forget McCoy, 'coz I usually do. Him being the skeptic to Spock and then smiling with so much glee when he found a way to heal the Horta was a delight. "Jim, I'm beginning to think I can cure a rainy day!" DeForest Kelley always makes McCoy a pleasant presence to be around. Even Leonard Nimoy's mind-melding with the Horta, which could have easily been campy were it a lesser actor doing it, felt believable and emotional. Great performances all around.

Let's call this one a 5/5.

[SVNBob]

The novels expand on the Horta and the Horta-Human Mining Alliance, including an attempt to take a small clutch of Horta to Bajor to help in the rebuilding efforts after the Occupation.

There are also stories of Horta joining Starfleet and becoming ship-board officers.  One even serves on the Enterprise under Kirk!  I remember this because there's a bit in one story or another with said Horta seated in the big chair, having command of the bridge for some reason (likely a duty shift), and Kirk relieving him (the Horta identifies as a male within the Horta species).  Kirk makes a mental and/or log note that the chair typically feels unusual after the Horta has been in it (I think warmer than is normally comfortable for a human), but respectfully does not say anything aloud to his crewman.

[Browncoat]

That's one of my favorite episodes, not only because we get the immortal line, "I'm a doctor, not a bricklayer!"

Edited October 28, 2023 by Browncoat

[QuantumMechanic]

On 10/28/2023 at 2:28 AM, SVNBob said:

There are also stories of Horta joining Starfleet and becoming ship-board officers.  One even serves on the Enterprise under Kirk!  I remember this because there's a bit in one story or another with said Horta seated in the big chair, having command of the bridge for some reason (likely a duty shift)

These were Diane Duane's stuff, such as The Romulan Way where Ensign Naraht appears.

[CeeBeeGee]

One of my favorite episodes. The Horta is such a sweetheart, skittering nervously around Kirk and Spock.

[MagnusHex]

1x29: Operation -- Annihilate!

So many good moments here: Scotty being a badass against Spock, Bones and Spock's bromance, and of course, that eerie creature that's reminiscent of the Facehugger from Alien. Plus, we even have a "ruthless calculus" moment when Spock and Bones debated over sacrificing a million to save a billion. Always love discussions like that, even if it's merely briefly touched on rather than it being the main focus of the episode.

And speaking of that lack of focus, this episode does feel a little crowded with the many good ideas they have, like how the sub-plot of Kirk's brother (whose existence and especially his death should have been a bigger deal) just popped in and out abruptly without contributing much to the plot. Like, is Sam even brought up again in the future of the series? Why couldn't they just get Kirk's best friend from highschool or something?

However, the aforementioned highlights were good enough that the episode remained entertaining, especially when we get to see Spock struggling with the human side of him.

A nice end to the season, if not perfect.

4/5

Edited December 9, 2023 by MagnusHex

[chessiegal]

I was watching Season 1 Episode 15 "Shore Leave" last night. It looked like some of it was filmed at Vasquez Rocks. I checked IMDb and sure enough it was. Hollywood loves that location.

[chessiegal]

I watched Season 1 Episode 18 "The Arena" on MeTV Saturday night. Another Vasquez Rocks location!

[Halting Hex]

Took a look at Turnabout Intruder Friday night (I've always had a soft spot for it) and I noticed that when Janice/Kirk first calls up to the Enterprise, she not only says "Captain Kirk to the Enterprise.  Captain Kirk to the Enterprise" (savoring her victory by being extra formal and perhaps not even knowing that Jim usually just says "Kirk to Enterprise" [obelisks and Miramanee be damned]), but that Shatner gives a little bit of reaction when Scotty replies "Mr. Scott, sir".

Whether that is Shatner having Janice not be prepared for the volume (the research station probably only had a table-top transmitter; Janice may not be used to having her ears so close to the receiver) or that Janice studied the Enterprise crew, but has never actually heard Scotty's voice, it's a nice bit of detail work.

(Especially impressive in that, as Joanie Winston detailed about her set visit in Star Trek Lives!, these scenes were shot on the final day, after New Year's Day 1969, and Shatner had caught the Hong Kong Flu [the last major pandemic in the US pre-COVID; the flu that scared young Stephen King so much it can be found in several fo his early short stories and forms the basis of The Stand] and so was feverish and feeling badly.  Quite the trouper, our Shat.)

I was, however, sad to see that I had misremembered, and that the cast had actually lost the argument they had with "Firehorse" director Herb Wallerstein (a derisive name Ralph Senensky gave to directors who don't do complicated set-ups but just point the camera and go; Ralph is of course bitter about being fired during the shooting of The Tholian Web in favor of Herb over that specific issue) about Janice/Kirk's apparently storming out of the briefing room at the end of Act 3 by walking through a wall. (Wallerstein has Shatner storm off by walking past the camera, even though we've already seen that the room's door is to the right of the frame,  when Kirk/Janice enters that way.  They try to cover for it by adding a "whoosh" sound effect as we fade to black off of Scotty's reaction, but no.)

I had thought the cast won that one.  (Must be my sentimental pro-labor heart.) I'll have to re-read Winston's account; she describes the incident in some detail.  Ah, well.

Edited February 25 by Halting Hex

[Affogato]

https://www.popculturecoffee.com
 

buy Kirk and Spock coffee to start. Janeway and Borg later. Also Ghostbusters. 

[rmontro]

2 hours ago, Affogato said:

buy Kirk and Spock coffee to start. 

Hope it doesn't taste like it comes out of a replicator.

Obviously for Picard they'll need to sell Earl Grey tea.

[MagnusHex]

2x2: Metamorphosis

Welp, this certainly didn't age well.

Initially, I was gonna praise the episode for being one of the few episodes where Kirk actually acts like a diplomat instead of shooting somebody. Bones' quote regarding him as a diplomat was memorable and almost sold me on the episode.

But then the alien cloud possesses the body of that bitchy shrew who couldn't find love until she becomes a subservient man-pleaser for Cochrane to fuck (reminds me of Wonder Woman 1984 and Buffy, both of which had a woman possessing another person without consent and fucking someone else in their body). That might be a little crude, but Cochrane pretty much went "Ew alien" until the cloud transformed into the one human he had the hots for.

Also, fuck that war, right? Who gives a shit about peace when satisfying your pent up sexual energy is more important.

2.5/5

Edited April 24 by MagnusHex

[MagnusHex]

2x5: Amok Time

Finally... finally, I get to post these two clips as a direct reference (rather than just randomly pointing out a reference outside of its intended context). PLEASE RISE FOR THE NATIONAL ANTHEM:

It's been such a long time coming. When I first watched The Cable Guy around the '90s or '00s, I just fell in love with that battle theme ("Ancient Battle" was the track's name, I think) way before I even knew what Star Trek was, or whom Spock and Captain Kirk were. It's just such an iconic piece of nerd culture, albeit not as well-known as the music pieces over on the "Wars" side of things like Duel of the Fate.

Even with all the hype aside, this was such a well-written episode where the script is tight and the tension/stakes feel real, not to mention the important expansion of Vulcan lore (first Vulcan salute!), which feels appropriate for a 2nd season of the show. Everything from the start of the episode served to push forward the one plot element without distraction: something is wrong with Spock and Jim will do anything in his power to help his friend. The stakes felt believable as the wheels kept turning to the shocking third act ending. It's a bold move for them to broadcast this as the season 2 premiere because if someone had turned off the TV right before the ending, they'd have thought that Kirk had remained dead for the rest of the series while Spock was court-martialed. I love how authentic everything felt too, with Bones angrily telling Spock to remove his hand from their captain, or the way Leonard Nimoy conveyed his remorse at what he had done in a subtle Vulcan manner.

The one groan I did let out, however, was when T'Pring was referred to as "property." I thought that the episode was doing such a good job of holding up until that moment. But on the other hand, you have to consider that the Pon Farr is such a primitive and archaic ritual contrary to the Vulcans' seemingly civilized and intellectual society that it'd make sense that such a dated and problematic term is used in said ritual. Though of course, I'm not sure if this term was intentionally implemented that way. I'll give Roddenberry the benefit of the doubt on this one.

I kept thinking back to Star Trek: Into Darkness writing this review because, while I was watching the episode, I came across a clip from that movie (which I've never seen) where Spock told Kirk that no one escapes death, or something along that line. Of course, this was an intentional foreshadowing in that film, but man, if that dialogue appeared right at the start of this episode as well, I'd have really believed that Kirk died.

5/5

Edited April 27 by MagnusHex

[MagnusHex]

2x6: The Doomsday Machine

What an intense episode. This episode is action-packed and moves at a great clip, rarely letting the audience take a breath of relief till the very end. Part of that reason is due to the titular "planet killer" and its unique design. It just feels so epic like a vicious mystical force of destruction, somewhere between a cross of Eye of Sauron, Unicron, Galactus and perhaps the Gates of Hell from the Doom games because goddamn, that sure looked like a portal to Hell. All my fanfiction headcanon started going crazy when I learned that there's a planet killer fighting against the Enterprise. Imagine if it was Unicron. How could they kill a literal chaos god (in the comics, he's a god)?

But I think that's what ultimately help this episode: that it's not just another god-like being again toying with the crew of the Enterprise, but a threat that's more straightforward and primal in nature, something you could immediately recognize as a big threat that one needs to duck and run away from.

Of course, the meat of the episode here is the Moby Dick inspiration it took, with William Windom starring as Commodore Decker. Despite being a recast replacing writer Norman Spinrad's initial choice of Robert Ryan, William did a fine enough job expressing the obsession and crazy eyes that convince us that this man is off his rocker (even if William initially didn't know that the story is a Moby Dick tribute, and merely thought he was starring in a silly and cartoonish plot with a planet killer). I'm not sure how the original Moby Dick ended, but I'm glad they made it so that Decker ultimately just wanted to redeem himself and was carrying this massive baggage of guilt with him (rather than merely being motivated by his ego that might have been symbolized by the size of a certain sperm whale). Even if he was foolish and pretty much caused the deaths of Kirk's own crewmen as well, I feel that his sacrifice worked with the right poignancy (not to mention being the key to saving the day), particularly due to the fact that Decker's entire intention the whole way through was just to stop this planet killer that would wipe out the entire Rigel system (perhaps wiping off Earth in the future as well if the Starfleet didn't respond soon enough).

This episode also shows why Spock isn't as suited for command as Kirk (even if he does make a fine commander): Spock is too rational and by-the-book, resulting in the ship being commandeered because of loopholes in the rulebook. Kirk, on the other hand, would have just punched out Decker and forced him to take a medical reevaluation to classify him as mentally unsound.

Something also worth mentioning is the redshirt that tried to stop Decker when he was escorted for a medical exam. Most redshirts are cannon fodder, but that redshirt put up a fight with a Commodore long enough that he earned my respect.

5/5

[rmontro]

11 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

2x6: The Doomsday Machine

This has always been my favorite episode, for whatever reason.  Or used to be.  I've mentioned this before, but I don't like the way they've changed the look of the Doomsday machine in the new episodes with the updated special effects.  Originally it was a cool, glacial looking blue, and they changed it to more of a green, and made the hull smoother looking.  I don't understand what was wrong with the original look or color.  And it was so iconic from my childhood, I did not appreciate the change.  One of the few (only?) cases where I like the original special effect to the updated one.  I thought the original machine looked great.

[ottoDbusdriver]

56 minutes ago, rmontro said:

This has always been my favorite episode, for whatever reason.  Or used to be.  I've mentioned this before, but I don't like the way they've changed the look of the Doomsday machine in the new episodes with the updated special effects.  Originally it was a cool, glacial looking blue, and they changed it to more of a green, and made the hull smoother looking.  I don't understand what was wrong with the original look or color.  And it was so iconic from my childhood, I did not appreciate the change.  One of the few (only?) cases where I like the original special effect to the updated one.  I thought the original machine looked great.

Agreed -- a lot of special effects updates to the TOS episodes look cheesy and poorly done, and really take away from the look and feel of the original episodes.

In this particular episode, for some reason with the updated special effects they made the planetkiller shorter and smaller for some reason, so it loses something.

[MagnusHex]

2x10: Mirror, Mirror

Mirror universes aren't exactly a new trope (though admittedly, it might have been new in the '60s, assuming The Twilight Zone didn't have something like that), but man, this was a fun episode, if only for seeing Shatner chew the scenery for a few minutes as Mirror Kirk.

Gotta love the fact that Mirror Spock remained as logical and compose as ever, not being reduced to the barbaric nature of his fellow crewmates. Shows that Vulcan nature can overcome the environmental influences sometimes, and that saner minds prevail (Mirror Kirk's in for a nasty surprise when he gets back home).

More than anything, I just like how the episode doesn't really hold back in showing how evil the counterparts can be, whether it's attempted sexual assault from Sulu (literally can't keep it in his pants to assault Uhura in private instead of in public view) or just committing genocide casually. The episode went all in on the evil, and it paid off in its stakes that gave the episode real tension.

5/5

[rmontro]

22 hours ago, MagnusHex said:

2x10: Mirror, Mirror

Gotta love how some of these episodes are so iconic.  Like Spock's beard in this.  When South Park wanted to show a Cartman from an alternate universe, they put a Spock-like goatee on him.  I loved that.

[Dancing Queen]

On 5/12/2024 at 12:37 PM, MagnusHex said:

2x10: Mirror, Mirror

Gotta love the fact that Mirror Spock remained as logical and compose as ever, not being reduced to the barbaric nature of his fellow crewmates.

One of my favorite episodes.  I really love the Mirror setup and characters.

I also love that Spock Prime is like, "These aren't our people.  Throw 'em in the brig," then proceeds to keep the Enterprise running as usual and simply trusts that his away team will figure out how to get back home.   

[rmontro]

27 minutes ago, Dancing Queen said:

I also love that Spock Prime is like, "These aren't our people.  Throw 'em in the brig," then proceeds to keep the Enterprise running as usual and simply trusts that his away team will figure out how to get back home.   

And if they don't, then he gets what he always wanted - to be captain of the Enterprise!

Just kidding.

[MagnusHex]

2x11: The Deadly Years

The fear of old age. Probably one of our most primal fears, alongside the fear of the dark and the unknown. It is kinda surprising that in the 23rd Century, the problem of aging (and all its unfortunate consequences) has yet to be solved. You'd think that something like that has been resolved, alongside the cure for cancer.

But while this episode had a very interesting concept, it suffered from many problems in the script. For starters, why did Commodore Stocker waste time on holding some competency hearing when they could have spent that precious time finding a cure for the very disease that's making Captain Kirk RAPIDLY AGING. RAPIDLY. As in time is running out! Christ, I don't know which was dumber: his time-wasting (probably just to usurp Kirk) or his trespass of the freaking Neutral Zone. Damn bureaucrats.

Furthermore, Spock agreeing to waste time on the competency hearing was far, far worse as it showed the lack of his usual rational thinking. Bones at least had the excuse of being too senile to focus on curing the disease.

And another thing: why didn't they immediately go into quarantine after discovering that something on the planet was making people age rapidly? You'd think that after all the invasive disease and phenomenon Kirk had encountered, he'd have learned. If not him, Spock.

Finally, that cringeworthy line from Kirk to Janet Wallace: "What are you offering me? Love, or a going-away present?" (He probably means sex when he said "present", ugh. Gets even more creepy when you take into account the whole grandpa roleplay fetish.)

It's a shame too because the episode had such a strong first act (despite the lack of quarantine). The way Scotty's aging was revealed was nicely edited and I could feel genuine tension (even though I already had a feeling what Scotty was gonna tell Bones).

2/5

[Cobb Salad]

I agree @MagnusHex about Commodore Stocker’s role in the episode- I guess he didn’t expect to be tested that quickly, ie the encounter with the Klingons (you know in his mind whatever it was he was there for was more important than honoring the Neutral Zone) right before Kirk swoops in to save the day. 

Too bad about the young female yeoman, I know she was considered Medical with her blue uniform but I wonder if she could be considered a “red shirt” casualty like Yeoman Thompson in “By Any Other Name”. 

[MagnusHex]

2x14: Bread and Circuses

What happens when you release an episode that was produced earlier at a later date than another episode with a similar plotline but was produced later? You get people thinking it's a rehash of that episode that was produced later. I'm watching the show according to the production order, so B&C came before "The Omega Glory", an episode I read that had a similar premise as B&C.

Without knowing that context, however, I greatly enjoyed B&C. I just find it fascinating because AFAIK, this is probably the earliest incarnation of televised real live violence that I've known of in fiction. Arnold's Running Man wouldn't arrive until 1987, along with many other "murderous reality show" stories that were more ubiquitous as shows became more self-aware and "meta." B&C's mockery of TV ratings was amusing and quite refreshing for its time.

The alternate history of Rome was fun as well as we not only explored the idea of Rome not collapsing, but also the titular concept of "bread and circuses," where Roman citizens were placated with violent gladiatorial show, thus becoming indifferent to the existence of "well-treated slaves" who are offering them entertainment. If you're gonna do a story about a violent reality show where real murders happen, it couldn't be more appropriate to base it on the classic Roman gladiatorial games since it's the most well-known version of gladiator fights (thanks to Russell Crowe and a tongue-wagging Joaquin Phoenix).

Of course, I wish they did more with this alternate history because it feels like scratching the surface, especially with the way they haphazardly revealed that the Sun Worshippers are actually SON Worshippers, as in Jesus H. Christ (the H is silent; Christoph Waltz best Jesus). Like c'mon, you're gonna leave me with a reveal like that and NOT expand upon it? Good lord. I wanted to see Jesus go Django on those Romans' ass. lol

Let's also not forget that Spock and McCoy had a nice little exchange in the prison, and despite Spock's attempt at his usual stoicism, I think Spock is just putting up a front (remember, he's half-human) and McCoy was at least partially right about his feelings of frustration. I like how both of them kinda laid out their heart to each other in the short scene.

Overall, a fun concept of an episode (Kirk uses a machine gun!) that I wish I could've seen more of.

4/5