S03.E09: Who's Dead?

[J.D.]

With Coliver I can clearly see the love, the jealousy, the passion, .... all the nuances of an actual relationship.  I see none of that with the women.  I want to see it, but I don't.  I think it's a step in the right direction to finally start portraying LGBT characters on 'regular' TV and not only pay TV, and to stop writing LGBT characters as nothing more than flamboyant goofballs or psychopaths or pedophiles and every other negative creature of society.  It's about time we see them as normal.  Well, as normal as can be on a show named How To Get Away With Murder.... lol.

Edited November 25, 2016 by J.D.

[Keepitmoving]

15 minutes ago, J.D. said:

With Coliver I can clearly see the love, the jealousy, the passion, .... all the nuances of an actual relationship.  I see none of that with the women.  I want to see it, but I don't.  I think it's a step in the right direction to finally start portraying LGBT characters on 'regular' TV and not only pay TV, and to stop writing LGBT characters as nothing more than flamboyant goofballs or psychopaths or pedophiles and every other negative creature of society.  It's about time we see them as normal.  Well, as normal as can be on a show named How To Get Away With Murder.... lol.

You're right, but probably because any lover/sexual interaction between the female characters so far hasn't been given enough screen time to show all of those nuances.   I don't know what the hell that was with Michaela and Laurel, someone explained and I kind of understood their explanation from Laurel's character's motivation. But the fact that they conveniently had Asher's back turned giving high fives to Wes when it happened....WTH?  Because you damn well know if he'd seen it he would have been WTF?  And Michaela has no reaction at all she just skips over to the board to see her grade. Eve wasn't around enough, and we know that based on the dialogue Eve accused Anna of not wanting to admit that there was anything other than friendship between them.  Anything with Bonnie, I personally view as wrong on so many levels, they need to stop that shit even if Anna was just using anything sexual to just control Bonnie, it's still wrong. Actually it's worse because that's what sexual abuse is about control/power over someone. Anna confuses the shit out of me, I can't tell if that woman has ever truly been in love except with Eve. Like I feel she's not honest with who she truly is with any of the men in her life, and I feel like she's come closest to that kind of intimacy with Eve.  What exactly did she truly feel for Sam? I truly don't know. I'm still not understanding their history. And I don't know where to begin when it comes to Nate. 

Edited November 25, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[secnarf]

I could see chemistry between Eve and Annalise from the first time Eve walked in that house and said "What, you still don't like surprises?" with that little half-smirk. IMO it was there right from the get-go.

OTOH, I have never seen or been able to buy her relationship with Nate as anything other than just sex. He baffles me every single time he continues to return to her and do her favours. And then in this season we learn he has some 'special connection' that he'll pull strings for Wes?!

I also feel Nate is a pretty flat character in terms of emotion - we don't often see him anything but flat or annoyed. And yet in this episode, we see him once again return to Annalise (or at least, to her house). We will eventually find out what happened inside her house, but I think the motivation will always be a mystery to me.

[Keepitmoving]

11 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I could see chemistry between Eve and Annalise from the first time Eve walked in that house and said "What, you still don't like surprises?" with that little half-smirk. IMO it was there right from the get-go.

OTOH, I have never seen or been able to buy her relationship with Nate as anything other than just sex. He baffles me every single time he continues to return to her and do her favours. And then in this season we learn he has some 'special connection' that he'll pull strings for Wes?!

I also feel Nate is a pretty flat character in terms of emotion - we don't often see him anything but flat or annoyed. And yet in this episode, we see him once again return to Annalise (or at least, to her house). We will eventually find out what happened inside her house, but I think the motivation will always be a mystery to me.

 

 

Yep, to Anna and Eve, as soon as she appeared I got a more than just friends vibe between them so that was huge kudos to the writing and mostly to the two actors. Their nonverbal acting said it all even without the dialogue. 

In terms of Nate, maybe underneath it all he loves the rush, because you'll definitely get that being with Anna. Because other than his rocking body, he is bland and boring, and he knows it and she is like a rush that he can't stay away from. 

Anna is dangerous, and without boundaries, but she's fun. They've shown that she knows how to have a good time, they showed it a couple of times.  They had Eve talking about the fun she's had with her, they showed her and Eve's last fun night out at that bar/club. But, have fun at your own risk and it will be a risk with Anna.  As Nate said, what did he say?...."caught up in your mess" LOL when he was worried about Wes.  He knows she's messy and I think she's like a drug to him and his boring self. 

Edited November 26, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[Milaxx]

10 hours ago, J.D. said:

 

I wish they would lighten up (read:  eliminate) the lesbian kisses / story line.  It's not working.  Viola is an amazing actress but not the least bit convincing as bisexual.  I don't believe the romantic side of her relationship with Eve.  Friends?  Yes.  Lovers?  No.  I also don't believe the kiss between Annalise and Bonnie. And what's up with that kiss between Michaela and Laurel?????    Give it up, Pete.   It's not working.  There's no sexual chemistry.  It looks too forced.  Now Coliver, on the other hand, that totally works.  I'm amused at how many people were shocked about a week ago when Jack 'came out' as straight.  That just goes to show the quality of his acting...... he managed to fool the general public.  

 

I totally see the chemistry between Anna & Eve. I believe her when she describes herself as "It's complicated." I dunno know if she's bi. I think it was the person.  Eve is truly the one who got away. She gets Annalise and all her crazy in a way no one ever has. I don't really see AK in a relationship with another woman, especially not Bonnie. On the other hand, her relationship with Bonnie is another beast entirely. I saw that kiss as nothing more than her reaching out for human contact and affection. 

10 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

You know what I realized, Michaela has Connor's phone, she took it from her mother and spoke to Oliver. I have no reason to believe she went and put that phone down in the chaos of it all.  Who's going to put down the phone and go back in her room to retrieve another phone which I would assume she had on her night stand or at least by her while her mother was hogging up her living room, in all that chaos? If you're frantic you're not going to care which phone you use, and she already had a phone in her hand.  So she takes the phone from her mother, gets off the call with Oliver and I'm going to assume that she doesn't waste time running to pick up her phone she uses the same phone to call Asher. Then you see her still holding the phone when she leaves her apt.. Doesn't mean that Connor doesn't retrace his steps when he notices he doesn't have his phone and then goes back to Michaela's apt. to retrieve it, where of course he gets an ear full from Michaela's mom who has the news on, so he shows up at the hospital assuming someone is probably dead. 

That's the thing when don't know what Connor did between the time he left Thomas and the time he appeared at the hospital. It could have been a million different scenarios. 

I totally agree that Nate is not a serious relationship for AK. I can't decide if she doesn't trust herself or him enough to let her guard down and be truly herself with Nate or what the case is.  I don't exactly blame her thought. AK has done some messed up things to Nate ( blackmailing him, letting him take the fall for Sam's murder, etc...) but Nate does his own fair share of shady. He lied at first when she asked him to find out where Sam was the night of Lila's murder. He was the one who encouraged Rebecca to go to the Keating house and try to get info off of Sam's computer and now he's working for Atwood. For all we know Nate could be the snitch. And yet I think Nate is totally hooked on AK and if she asked him back, he'd go running in a heartbeat.

[Lady Calypso]

21 hours ago, J.D. said:

I wish they would lighten up (read:  eliminate) the lesbian kisses / story line.  It's not working.  Viola is an amazing actress but not the least bit convincing as bisexual.  I don't believe the romantic side of her relationship with Eve.  Friends?  Yes.  Lovers?  No.  I also don't believe the kiss between Annalise and Bonnie. And what's up with that kiss between Michaela and Laurel?????    Give it up, Pete.   It's not working.  There's no sexual chemistry.  It looks too forced.  Now Coliver, on the other hand, that totally works.  I'm amused at how many people were shocked about a week ago when Jack 'came out' as straight.  That just goes to show the quality of his acting...... he managed to fool the general public.  

I agree that the Michaela/Laurel and maybe the Annalise/Bonnie kisses were a little odd, but I thought the Annalise/Eve romance was well done. I actually bought their chemistry and appreciate that they tried it out. For shows to branch out and try risky things is good. I don't always like the romances on this show. It has taken a while for me to even like Michaela/Asher, and I never liked Annalise/Nate. I just think that chemistry is certainly subjective, so everyone will see something slightly different. I do think Connor/Oliver is different because they're a major part of the show, while all the other female/female moments are just small snippets. 

[J.D.]

26 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I agree that the Michaela/Laurel and maybe the Annalise/Bonnie kisses were a little odd, but I thought the Annalise/Eve romance was well done. I actually bought their chemistry and appreciate that they tried it out. For shows to branch out and try risky things is good. I don't always like the romances on this show. It has taken a while for me to even like Michaela/Asher, and I never liked Annalise/Nate. I just think that chemistry is certainly subjective, so everyone will see something slightly different. I do think Connor/Oliver is different because they're a major part of the show, while all the other female/female moments are just small snippets. 

Maybe it's a 'female' thing.  Maybe it's an 'age' thing.  I couldn't say because I'm neither, but to me there was no LOVE, no "You complete me."  It looked like neediness to me, like Eve might actually love Annalise, but Annalise is such a walls-up, guarded and broken human being, that regardless of who she's with.... Nate, Eve, or creeping on Wes in some bathroom...., it just looks like a dependency, neediness thing.... like a "Please don't leave me" situation.  When it comes to Annalise and romantic relationships, I don't see the happiness.  I don't see the love.  

Edited November 26, 2016 by J.D.

[starri]

10 minutes ago, J.D. said:

I couldn't say because I'm neither, but to me there was no LOVE, no "You complete me."

Annalise always had these genuine, ear-to-ear smiles when she would spend time with Eve.  Maybe it's just because Viola likes working with Famke.  But my takeaway has been whether or not she's bi, or fluid, or "it's complicated," she's definitely Gay For Eve.

[Milaxx]

I think Eve has just resolved herself to the fact that Annalise can't completely give herself to Eve. I think even AK realized it which is why she told Eve to go and let herself be loved. Truth is I think Eve would quite willingly come every time AK called. She did so with the Mahoney trial and again with Nate.  

Edited November 30, 2016 by Milaxx

[possibilities]

It's a lot to ask that we see the depth of love in a character who's not around much, but I think they've shown the relationship with Eve as being deep and powerful and it's the only time Annalise seems at all relaxed or happy and not in some twisted weirdness scheme. She's real with Eve in a way she isn't with anyone else. It's the only time I believe anything she says or does is real.

I saw the Laurel-Michaela kiss as the equivalent of dudes chest bumping. I thought the Annalise-Bonnie kiss was a power play.

Basically, I think ABC doesn't have the guts to give the main character/star of the show a primary, present, on-going, serious, lasting, healthy, committed relationship with another woman, so Eve is the best we can hope for. Even if Famke were available, I just don't think the show will let the two of them work it out unless maybe they do it in the very last episode when the show is ending-- send Annalise off into the sunset with her one true love or something. Other than that, it's just going to be Eve showing up, holding back because she's married to someone else or because "it hurts too much to be with you if we can't really be together" or Anna being unable to commit because she's too "complicated."

[harmfulhazards]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

Basically, I think ABC doesn't have the guts to give the main character/star of the show a primary, present, on-going, serious, lasting, healthy, committed relationship with another woman, so Eve is the best we can hope for. Even if Famke were available, I just don't think the show will let the two of them work it out unless maybe they do it in the very last episode when the show is ending-- send Annalise off into the sunset with her one true love or something. Other than that, it's just going to be Eve showing up, holding back because she's married to someone else or because "it hurts too much to be with you if we can't really be together" or Anna being unable to commit because she's too "complicated."

To be fair, this show doesn't give anyone a healthy, serious long-lasting committed relationship with anyone regardless of gender, sexuality, race or plot significance. Even everyone's beloved Coliver is pretty toxic by real life standards. Maybe it's a point that every character is too messed up to have healthy relationship, maybe the showrunners genuinely believe it's boring, maybe they just can't write it. Never seen Scandal or GA, but from what I've heard, healthy romances do not exist there too.

I seriously doubt that kisses in this episode were anything but a little bit of fanservice to "sweeten" Wes' death. Especially the first one that came out of nowhere and I've heard a lot of theories that it was just an improvisation on Karla's part. After all Laurel/Michaela is the most popular non-canon pairing of the show, and Annalise/Bonnie used to be the most popular Annalise's pairing before Eve.

[aslightjump]

Veeeery late response, but wowza. Wes!

Honest to God? Can't say I liked Wes, but I was attached to him, if that makes any sense. He was such a dope. He tried very hard, and he was very messed up, and I am going to miss his dopey ass.

I read Connor as just going numb when he heard about Wes, and I also completely accept Michaela's tears because the stress of thinking her boyfriend might be dead, to thinking Connor might be dead, then finding out it was neither of them, to learning that Wes was actually dead would take a toll on anybody but moreover it was in character for her. Michaela always reacts to stress highkey emotionally before she calms down and handles it. 

But more than that - I've been rewatching this past season and some of the episodes before, and the Keating 5 seem to get along just fine if there are no outside stressors on the group. They are always together, sometimes completely voluntarily. For as many times as they formed lines in the sand against each other, they also formed up like Voltron to keep each other safe. Sure, they all had mostly selfish motives for doing so, but - what I'm saying is that the K5, especially the Murder 4, have always been way more interesting to me than Annalise (I know, blasphemy, but her character tends to go in circles while the kids are the ones that develop because of her), and I liked their weird dynamic and I would totally buy that Michaela, at least, would cry over Wes even if she didn't particularly like him most of the time - because these morons are all any of them have had for the past year and a half. I think that's the reason why I'm going to miss Wes the most.

Put me down for the Mahoneys. I flirted with the idea that Wes might have committed suicide because he never got proper treatment for his suicidal tendencies last season (besides those odd therapist talks) but you would have to seriously tank his headspace for me to buy it.

I kinda wish Connor and Oliver would just chill and be friends for another season, because they have so very many issues and need a long time to work through them - mostly because a lot of their issues don't have to do with each other. Well, Oliver's might. But I'm gonna be blunt; don't care about Oliver. Never have. Bland as toast with an equally uninspiring actor who kinda morphed into a huge jackass overnight. Connor, though. That boy has got stuff.

[Chicago Redshirt]

On 11/24/2016 at 9:05 PM, Milaxx said:

They lost the self defense claim the minute they went from the communal/work related portion of the house and Sam specifically asked them to leave. At that point Sam was protecting himself. IIRC Laurel said as much when one of them (I forget who, Michaela maybe?) said they could call the police and claim self defense. 

Not to dredge up this too much, but IIRC Wes says, "We'll leave once we get Rebecca out." and Sam nonverbally signals that he's OK with that. 

Wes talks Rebecca into leaving, but because of plot reasons Rebecca doesn't stash the flash drive in her pocket, her underwear or any covert place. 

Sam sees it, starts attacking her. Sam was the initial aggressor. Wes and Connor come to Rebecca's assistance, and Michaela ends up with the flash drive. Sam chases after Michaela and she dodges him and ends up over the railing. While the M4 argue, Sam gets up and starts choking Rebecca. Wes hits him over the head with the trophy and he's finally dead.

As it played out, it would have been a stretch to call this murder. The M4 could have easily come up with a version of the scenario where it was even more clearly self-defense, leaving out the part where Sam asked them to leave, just saying (for example) that they showed up with Sam choking Rebecca and Wes hit him over the head with the trophy. They did not because of plot reasons and because "How to Get Away With a Legally Justifiable Killing" doesn't have the right ring to it.

[jhlipton]

8 hours ago, Chicago Redshirt said:

because "How to Get Away With a Legally Justifiable Killing" doesn't have the right ring to it.

LOL

[wanderingstar]

Quote

They did not because of plot reasons and because "How to Get Away With a Legally Justifiable Killing" doesn't have the right ring to it.

And can you imagine them trying to make a logo with that title

[possibilities]

Once Sam was dead, they could have made up any story at all about why they were there and what happened. No one would know that he asked them to leave or that Rebecca broke in or was stealing a USB. They had plenty of plausible reason to be in the house, since they worked there and Rebecca was a client. Sam was on top of Rebecca and strangling her. Surely she'd have marks on her neck. Maybe no one would believe Sam went crazy and was assaulting Rebecca, but it's equally doubtful anyone would think they broke in and were stealing, since they were routinely there and he never told them to leave before.

Did anyone ever do a DNA test on Lila's fetus? If it was known that Sam was the father, maybe they could have used that to suggest he had tried to rape Rebecca because he's just that kind of maniac. Or that he attacked her because she accused him of killing Lila, to cover up his affair. Anything would have been less risky than chopping up his corpse and throwing it in a dumpster, but like others have said: that's not a show.

[secnarf]

32 minutes ago, possibilities said:

Did anyone ever do a DNA test on Lila's fetus? If it was known that Sam was the father, maybe they could have used that to suggest he had tried to rape Rebecca because he's just that kind of maniac. Or that he attacked her because she accused him of killing Lila, to cover up his affair. Anything would have been less risky than chopping up his corpse and throwing it in a dumpster, but like others have said: that's not a show.

They did, but not until after Sam's murder I think. I could be wrong about that - I know Annalise told Sam that she was going to request DNA samples from all the men in Lila's life, including her professors, but IIRC they didn't have the results until after Sam's death.

[wanderingstar]

I re-watched this episode, and I can't get over how much Wes is channeling Annalise in that scene where he demands that the cops refine his immunity agreement. If he really was betraying her, at least she can take comfort in knowing that she taught him well.

[Keepitmoving]

What were the three mystery questions up till now?

Who shot Annalise? Wes

Who's under the sheet? Wes

And??? There was another one. 

Because, I was listening to this podcast and they pointed out that Wes has been the answer to all three major mystery questions on this show so far.

So who killed Wes? I guess is the start of the next round of questions and I guess I'll be looking for  some kind of pattern. Or is this the last question in a round of questions that had Wes as the answer. Therefore, who killed Wes?  Answer: Wes

Edited December 11, 2016 by Keepitmoving

[secnarf]

1 hour ago, Keepitmoving said:

What were the three mystery questions up till now?

Who shot Annalise? Wes

Who's under the sheet? Wes

And??? There was another one. 

Because, I was listening to this podcast and they pointed out that Wes has been the answer to all three major mystery questions on this show so far.

So who killed Wes? I guess is the start of the next round of questions and I guess I'll be looking for  some kind of pattern. Or is this the last question in a round of questions that had Wes as the answer. Therefore, who killed Wes?  Answer: Wes

The first one was who killed Sam.

It was brought up at the beginning of this season that Wes would probably be under the sheet because of this pattern. I'm not sure I would buy that Wes killed himself, though. An awful lot would have to happen in a very short period of time.

[possibilities]

Before that, it was "Who killed Lila?"

[Milaxx]

7 hours ago, Keepitmoving said:

What were the three mystery questions up till now?

Who shot Annalise? Wes

Who's under the sheet? Wes

And??? There was another one. 

Because, I was listening to this podcast and they pointed out that Wes has been the answer to all three major mystery questions on this show so far.

So who killed Wes? I guess is the start of the next round of questions and I guess I'll be looking for  some kind of pattern. Or is this the last question in a round of questions that had Wes as the answer. Therefore, who killed Wes?  Answer: Wes

I rewatched the first half and honestly they pretty much spelled out that Wes would be the person under the sheet. Whether as a matter of fact or perception, Wes was the cause of trouble for everyone. Now that he's dead, it will make for an interesting 2nd half since an argument can be made for pretty much everyone to be viewed as a suspect.