S02.E02: Series 2 Episode 2

[Cranberry]

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Laura must decide whether to accept Niska's request, while Karen and Pete learn about a special Synth being sold for unprecedented amounts on the black market. Hester uses questionable means to gain information from her prisoner, and Leo faces a new mission. Mia takes a risk to help Ed but is her secret now in jeopardy?

[snowwhyte]

There were some interesting questions raised in this episode. Hester is awakening but doesn't have all the human emotions or an understanding of right or wrong. I find it interesting that they are being viewed somewhat like human children who need to be taught right or wrong by our original synths.

If breaking their programming means a number of them will be willing and able to commit murder it will be harder for them to gain acceptance. That is one thing I question about Niska wanting to be tried for murder. I understand she wants a court to rule that synths can be sentient and have rights but given that sentience allows them to commit murder I don't think they will be accepted by society. There were people against synths when they believed their programming prohibited them from harming people. Telling people that synths have feelings should be done in a more positive way if they want to be accepted. 

[wayne67]

8 hours ago, snowwhyte said:

If breaking their programming means a number of them will be willing and able to commit murder it will be harder for them to gain acceptance. That is one thing I question about Niska wanting to be tried for murder. I understand she wants a court to rule that synths can be sentient and have rights but given that sentience allows them to commit murder I don't think they will be accepted by society. There were people against synths when they believed their programming prohibited them from harming people. Telling people that synths have feelings should be done in a more positive way if they want to be accepted. 

Humans have killed each other for thousands of years for all sorts of reasons. Many groups have fought and killed for their rights throughout history, if nothing else it should provide a reason against casual abuse of Synths since now some of them can fight back.

No one has ever said sentience is all sunshine and roses. Most things that are alive kill to stay alive.

Having a faction of the Synths willing to kill for their rights while another faction is willing to take the higher moral ground is more likely to make the 'friendlier' group seem more palatable to the public eg Black Panthers and MLK.

Once there's enough sentient Synths, humanity will either accept them or go to war with them and considering how widespread they seem to be it's unlikely that humans will ban Synths entirely and a war would devastate society since Synths could manufacture more of themselves than humans can reproduce.   

[John Potts]

I do like seeing that Synths aren't monolithic but that there are differences between them (though I agree, they do seem more like children). Though I did wonder if Leo was going to yell at Hester for killing their prisoner - not because "Murder is wrong" (though probably, that too) but because they were hoping he'd lead them back to The Vault.

Did we see the cop reconciling with his (secretly) Synth colleague? Last I remember he was getting horrified over her sudden reveal (OK, I can see he might come round in time, but if that's what happened, it would've been nice to see it).

Even if they're kind of disposable, I love the Family Therapy scenes. Nice to see Josie Lawrence showing off her knack for accents while playing the straight man (well, Synth) and there needs to be some levity in the show.

On ‎06‎/‎11‎/‎2016 at 11:10 PM, snowwhyte said:

If breaking their programming means a number of them will be willing and able to commit murder it will be harder for them to gain acceptance.

Not necessarily. When slaves mutinied on slave ships and killed their masters, it caused a minor headache for those who recovered the ships. Since most naval forces hailed from the Northern states, they tended to be returned to "Free" states. Their Southern owners wanted them tried for murder, but this posed  if they weren't people, they couldn't be tried (it'd been a while since dogs & clouds had been tried). So even though Niska might not make it out of her trial alive, she might succeed in granting Synths some basic rights.

[kieyra]

Wrote a somewhat exasperated post about episode one, but now I'm finding I'm enjoying this one quite a bit and it's got me more invested. The writing seems better. I like what Carrie Anne Moss is doing. They've had some pieces of dialogue that I really liked. Hester's point that the humans didn't treat their other tools with the same hatred was exactly the line that a person like me, who doesn't do well with this kind of abstraction, needed in order to gain a better understanding of the "non-sentient synth vs vibrator" argument. And the little flourishes with the main human couple (sorry names escape me) like joking around with the shrink-bot and her accents are making me view them more as real characters.

The actress who plays Niska is just stunning.

(That said, kind of sorry to see that those blunt haircuts performed with safety scissors are still in fashion for many of the female synths. Possibly reason enough to revolt.)

[Primetimer]

Here's a hint: if your blood's red, you might want to stay out of her way.

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[thuganomics85]

Aww, yeah!  I'm glad that Odi is coming back into the picture, by Mattie finding him and attempting to revive him.  Will Tudor was fantastic least season and is really great with the physical acting when it comes to playing a broken down Synth.  Can't wait to see where this goes!

I was wondering when we were going to check back in with Karen and Pete.  So, they seem to be attempting a domestic life now, and acting like a normal couple.  I have a feeling something is going to happen that will cause that change.  Have a feeling Karen going back to the force will end up being the catalyst for that.

Mia already blew her cover with Ed, by trying to help him get more money from the bank, by committing fraud.  I guess she's just that big of a softy for Sam Palladio's puppy eyes!  She wouldn't last long in Nashville, to say the least!  Still love how she flip between "Anita" and Mia; especially when Mia slips out when she's suppose to be the former.  Gemma Chan is just amazing.

Niska is now in custody, and being determined if she's fit for trial.  Figured Laura would come around and agree to be her lawyer, but I'm looking forward to it, and how this will effect everyone.

Notice that there doing something with humans identifying as Synths, and that causing issues.  I'm guessing it's going to be this show's mirror to bigotry against forms of self-identification in real life.

So, Hester is just a little bit murder happy when the time call for it!  I wonder what will happen if the rest find out what she did.  Max will likely be pissed, but Leo seems to be getting a bit more angry and open to the idea of violence.

Seems like Athena/Carrie Ann-Moss' plan is to use a Synth host to upload her AI into, but is currently struggling with that.  Meanwhile, Milo has some kind of grand plan, which I'm sure will be unpleasant, but if history is any indication, Marshal Allman characters tend to always be self-serving!

[Lingo]

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When Max attempts to make her understand why he thinks harming anyone, even an enemy, is wrong, Hester, seeming genuinely dismayed that Max is palpably afraid of her, is more than willing to discuss the matter, and we learn it's not just Ten's murder that's traumatizing her; back when she was unconscious, so to speak, the humans at her factory would horribly abuse any synth who fell into disrepair; her description is hauntingly reminiscent of the smash club Niska, um, broke up in Season 1.

Still, Hester tries to explain that her actions with the prisoner are in service of protecting their kind, and I can't say Max, much as I love him, does a particularly good job of countering her argument, nor of addressing her disturbing observation that their hated status is tied to their humanoid image. 

Absolutely none of this is in the American cut of the episode. Goddammit AMC.  :( Why can't you just run a 65-minute cut of the episode if that's what it takes? You let The Walking Dead run over all the time >:(

 

The version of S1 on iTunes is the same edited-down version they showed on air BTW.

Edited February 21, 2017 by Lingo

[Quilt Fairy]

1 hour ago, Lingo said:

Absolutely none of this is in the American cut of the episode. Goddammit AMC.  :(

This makes Hester's actions so much more understandable.  I didn't think about AMC's more aggressive editing to meet time constraints when I was watching, but I had the feeling something was missing, especially when Hester kept asking "Why do you hate us?" which made no sense in the context of what we'd been shown so far.

[mjc570]

I thought this was a good episode, although the deleted material mentioned above would have made it a lot better.  I really like Mattie, and even Joe has become pretty funny and likeable.  Niska's an idiot - the whole possibility of sentient, killer synths is something that I can see the government willing to kill not just any synth but also the Hawkins family, since they are apparently the only ones who know about it.*  Sure, I get that she wants the publicity of a trial, but I can't imagine any circumstances whatsoever where that would be permitted to happen, regardless of how she does in the testing. 

*I realize that Laura brought along a UN observer, but it wasn't clear to me if he really had been told everything. 

I don't remember why they had that guy in the barn, but I'm glad they had direct-action Hester around to make up for Max's innocence in letting him go.  Speaking of Max:  what a beautiful smile he has.

Don't care about Anita's story line, although I liked seeing Ed surviving Nashville, and his mother, who is Mrs. Baptiste in the Missing, which I just watched.

[Lingo]

20 hours ago, Quilt Fairy said:

This makes Hester's actions so much more understandable.  I didn't think about AMC's more aggressive editing to meet time constraints when I was watching, but I had the feeling something was missing, especially when Hester kept asking "Why do you hate us?" which made no sense in the context of what we'd been shown so far.

It really does. I was really mad at Max and Leo for apparently not even trying to explain WHY what Hester was doing was wrong -- but actually they did!

I especially liked how in Season 1 they made each of the Synth's personalities and actions reflect their pasts. Removing Hester's past made her motivations more opaque to me, and just made her feel like a less-sympathetic, duller copy of S1 Niska (though perhaps they want her to be less sympathetic?). What worries me in particular is that, in choosing what to edit out of S1, they decided to stick mostly to removing a single storyline: Pete's relationship with his wife. I was able to follow that storyline well enough, but I fear it could do a lot of damage to Hester's story if they take the same approach here.

I'm not particularly mad at AMC doing this, as I know most American networks cut down most British imports, but it's puzzling in this case, considering that AMC seems to be a co-producer, and as I pointed out above, they're will to let their own shows (TWD, Breaking Bad, etc.) take as long as they need.  And why does it have to be the same edited version online (iTunes etc)? Does AMC not actually have ultimate say over the edit?

Edited February 22, 2017 by Lingo

[TomGirl]

Odi, Odi, Odi!!!  One of the most gorgeous faces ever to appear on a TV screen!  (Ditto Niska and Mia!)

[LeGrandElephant]

On 2/21/2017 at 1:39 AM, Lingo said:

Absolutely none of this is in the American cut of the episode. Goddammit AMC.  :( Why can't you just run a 65-minute cut of the episode if that's what it takes? You let The Walking Dead run over all the time >:(

 

The version of S1 on iTunes is the same edited-down version they showed on air BTW.

I'm confused - I just watched this so on iTunes in the states and it was only 45 minutes but I feel like I did see the conversations mentioned here. I guess maybe there were more of them in the original episode? The descriptions here are rather vague but all of them seemed to fit what I watched. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yay, Odi!

For someone who was so good at keeping herself safe, I was surprised that Niska agreed to let herself be examined. I'm also curious as to how they're going to test Niska to prove or disprove that she's sentient.

Loved how Sophie broke out of her synthie behavior to greet Niska enthusiastically.

Mia just couldn't help herself and gave herself away to Ed. I know it was done out of concern because she of all the synths in her family seems to have the most empathy, but that was not a smart choice.