Podcasts: True Crime For Your Ears

[Chairperson Meow]

On 7/23/2017 at 8:38 AM, Atlanta said:

I tried to listen to TCB but the hosts' voices put me to sleep.

With Unconcluded, I like that Jennifer's mom, Joyce, is a friend of the show and is active in the FB discussion group. 

The TCB about Jodi arias was painful to hear.   

[starri]

I cannot for the life of me understand all the Murderinos who are getting MFM tattoos.  I have four tattoos, but most are abstract, with only my most recent one standing officially for something, and even that's just the symbol of my profession.  I'm planning on getting a Star Trek-themed tattoo for my 40th birthday next year, but I've also been a Trekkie for more than 25 years.  MFM is only about a year and a half old.

[RainbowBrite]

On ‎7‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 8:46 AM, starri said:

I cannot for the life of me understand all the Murderinos who are getting MFM tattoos.  I have four tattoos, but most are abstract, with only my most recent one standing officially for something, and even that's just the symbol of my profession.  I'm planning on getting a Star Trek-themed tattoo for my 40th birthday next year, but I've also been a Trekkie for more than 25 years.  MFM is only about a year and a half old.

Their following is definitely something...

[Atlanta]

4 hours ago, RainbowBrite said:

Their following is definitely something...

Couldn't get into MFM or True Crime and Wine (I think that's what it's called). 

[pigs-in-space]

Eh, people get stupid tattoos about all kinds of stuff.  I'm not really surprised to hear that.

It took me some time to get into MFM, but now I'm hooked (although I'm still way behind - probably in the mid-twenties episode-wise).  I've gotta say though, I'd obviously heard them both speak on the podcast, and saw pictures of them on the internet.  Then today I saw a video of them, and was floored to realize that I had completely mixed up the voices and the faces!.  Karen sounds like what I'd imagine Georgia looks like, and vice versa.  

[starri]

On 7/28/2017 at 7:51 PM, pigs-in-space said:

Eh, people get stupid tattoos about all kinds of stuff.  I'm not really surprised to hear that.

No judgment.  I just think it's kind of odd.  I've tried hard to steer clear of any fandom things because I worry about going into Johnny Depp "Winona Forever" territory.

I heard an ad on another podcast for Missing Maura Murray.  It seems a really odd that they're paying for mentions when by any objective measure, that horse is not only dead, it's been picked clean by vultures and had its skeleton ground up to make bone broth.

[TattleTeeny]

I wish all true-crime podcast episodes were named in an obvious way. I don't subscribe to all of them; I just scroll around looking for something that piques my interest at any given time. I feel the same way about books--though having a dozen books with the same name might be pretty confusing. 

[starri]

So, My Favorite Murder ran into some trouble after being accused of being a bit casually racist.

Let me say up top that I am saying this from my perspective as a white, cis, gay man, who is well aware that he's near the top of the food chain of those who aren't white and cishet.  But while I think a lot of the article's points are perfectly legitimate and agree with plenty of them, I think some are a bit out of context.

I was at that show at the Beacon Theater that the article mentions, and while Karen definitely mischaracterized Spanish Harlem, I think it was born more of sensationalized media reports that want to talk up a minority neighborhood as a crime-ridden slum, since a white person dying under bizarre circumstances in that place, instead of a perfectly nice ethnic neighborhood makes for better headlines.  Spanish Harlem is one of the few pockets of Manhattan (really, the entire city) that has actively fought gentrification, and more power to them for that.  But I don't think she did it with any real malice, just another example of them not thinking too deeply about some of the stuff they talk about.  And honestly, the focus on white murder victims (specifically, white female murder victims) is just a small part of the bigger problem with a lot of True Crime.

And while her flippant comment to the Stay Sexy, Don't Be Racist Twitter was, at best, not helpful, and at worst, outright offensive, I'm not sure the Twitter itself is constructive.  Lord knows I have problems with their (particularly Georgia's) lack of insight into certain issues, but I do honestly think they're receptive to learning new perspectives, and Georgia seems to have improved her understanding of things as the show has gone on.  There was a mention of a clearly-guilty man appealing a verdict that was based in part on some shenanigans by the prosecutors where one of them commented that the guy was right to do so recently, and I felt like cheering.

Honestly, it's some of the murderinos that actually worry me.  I'm a member of the Facebook group, but it's so active I don't participate all that often, and some of the comments I do read have made me think about leaving it more than once.  And they posted audio recently from a live show where, once the murder (a horrible human being, to be sure) was sentenced to death, there was cheering.  That's flat-out gross.

[RainbowBrite]

On ‎8‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 0:41 PM, starri said:

So, My Favorite Murder ran into some trouble after being accused of being a bit casually racist.

Let me say up top that I am saying this from my perspective as a white, cis, gay man, who is well aware that he's near the top of the food chain of those who aren't white and cishet.  But while I think a lot of the article's points are perfectly legitimate and agree with plenty of them, I think some are a bit out of context.

I was at that show at the Beacon Theater that the article mentions, and while Karen definitely mischaracterized Spanish Harlem, I think it was born more of sensationalized media reports that want to talk up a minority neighborhood as a crime-ridden slum, since a white person dying under bizarre circumstances in that place, instead of a perfectly nice ethnic neighborhood makes for better headlines.  Spanish Harlem is one of the few pockets of Manhattan (really, the entire city) that has actively fought gentrification, and more power to them for that.  But I don't think she did it with any real malice, just another example of them not thinking too deeply about some of the stuff they talk about.  And honestly, the focus on white murder victims (specifically, white female murder victims) is just a small part of the bigger problem with a lot of True Crime.

And while her flippant comment to the Stay Sexy, Don't Be Racist Twitter was, at best, not helpful, and at worst, outright offensive, I'm not sure the Twitter itself is constructive.  Lord knows I have problems with their (particularly Georgia's) lack of insight into certain issues, but I do honestly think they're receptive to learning new perspectives, and Georgia seems to have improved her understanding of things as the show has gone on.  There was a mention of a clearly-guilty man appealing a verdict that was based in part on some shenanigans by the prosecutors where one of them commented that the guy was right to do so recently, and I felt like cheering.

Honestly, it's some of the murderinos that actually worry me.  I'm a member of the Facebook group, but it's so active I don't participate all that often, and some of the comments I do read have made me think about leaving it more than once.  And they posted audio recently from a live show where, once the murder (a horrible human being, to be sure) was sentenced to death, there was cheering.  That's flat-out gross.

I left the Facebook group - it was just too much for me (in many ways).

 

I've started listening to Gone at 21. The structure is very confusing...there are episodes called "The Investigation" and episodes called "Evidentiary Notes" and they each have their own numbering system. Has anyone listened to this? Do you recommend that I continue? I'm on Investigation Episode 2.

[magpye29]

On 3/17/2017 at 9:32 PM, biakbiak said:

they have no reason to lie about his well being after they did a wellness check.

Have you heard of Shelly Miscavage?

[starri]

You may have thought that a crossover between My Favorite Murder and Anna Faris is Unqualified was something you didn't need in your life.

I'm here to tell you, you thought correctly.

[starri]

Payne from Up and Vanished apparently shat the bed at a podcast convention this weekend, managing to insult both podcast fans and his fellow podcasters.  Except that he's apparently not a podcaster, because he's such a hipster and ironic.  I don't know exactly what he said, but it must have been bad, because Rabia from Undisclosed and Aaron Mahnke from Lore--who are both seem like the most mild-mannered people imaginable--tore into him on Twitter.

[MargeGunderson]

I'm trying to imagine what Aaron Mahnke would say to tear into someone. He is so mild mannered. 

[starri]

[MargeGunderson]

Thanks, @starri. It's like being told by your dad that he's disappointed in you, complete with a sad shake of his head.

[starri]

That was exactly my take on it as well.

[Atlanta]

Would love to know what Payne said.

[Epeolatrix]

A bit of Google research says, "I listened to a bunch of true crime podcasts and to be honest I didn't really like any of them. Serial had ruined it, they were all subpar." And he agreed with a tweet that Rabia Chaudry (Undisclosed, the Adnan Syed advocacy podcast) was just jealous because Payne's podcast helped* catch a murderer while she was trying to free one. *Helped in the sense that he put the case back in the public eye, not in the sense that his investigation yielded any useful information or leads.

There's a general sense that Payne is a podcaster to create/bolster his 'brand' rather than because he genuinely cared about the medium or the case (that he found via Google searching 'Georgia cold case'). For him to be so insulting to his predecessors and fellow podcasters at a podcasting convention was just rude.

Edited August 30, 2017 by Violet Impulse
I needed to fix a run-on sentence.

[Atlanta]

What broke the case was a mad ex girlfriend spilling to the cops.

[pigs-in-space]

That's both insulting and really stupid of him.

[starri]

Kevin and Rebecca from Crimes Writers On were both at the convention as well.  Rebecca's Twitter was how I first heard about it, and even though they try really hard to keep their criticisms of the podcasts they review constructive and not delve into gossip, and even with the admission that Rebecca worked on the production of Undisclosed to help them with some of their technical stuff, their comments made it sound like it was even worse than what's come out on Twitter.

The convention was a networking opportunity for podcasters and people who want to be podcasters to share ideas about, for example, how to start a podcast, how to monetize it, etc.  Dan Taberski from Missing Richard Simmons did one about having your podcast unexpectedly blow up, happily took questions from people about the more controversial aspects of the show, and revealed a little about what the final episode was originally intended to be.  The host and producers of In The Dark did what Rebecca described as a wonderful talk about Best Practices when doing the longform journalism style of podcasts.  And then there was Payne.

So, apparently, he initially rolled up to his talk wearing a t-shirt that read "I am not a podcaster," which Kevin apparently originally took as something that was self-deprecating, but turned out not to be.  He was also accompanied by an entourage which included what I can only describe as E3 Booth Babes who were passing out t-shirts reading "If I vanish, call Payne."  He made the comments about how every other true crime podcast was bad, Rabia made her comment about how offensive that was (she was also in the audience, although not seated with Kevin and Rebecca), which lead to members of Payne's entourage--including some who joined Twitter DURING PAYNE'S TALK specifically to drag her--warring with her on Twitter, which is what lead Aaron to defend her.

He apparently also said that he'd decided to do podcasting differently because he went out to the towns and actually interviewed the people.  This lead Kevin to exclaim that someone needed to let the ghost of Edward R Murrow know that Payne had just invented the concept of journalism.

His 45 minute talk ended after 25 minutes, at which point he showed a trailer of sorts for the Up and Vanished TV series.  Apparently, the show has been accused of faking things and using editing trickery before, and from what Kevin said, some of the things in the trailer, at least out of context, also seemed to support that.

In the end, Payne is a dick, and never having listened to Up and Vanished, I have no motivation to start now.

[glowbug]

I listend to Up and Vanished and didn't like it. I finally gave up because it was clear that Payne Lindsay didn't care about the missing person he was covering (Tara something-or-other) and only wanted to be famous and make money. He put very little thought into the episodes and he was very annoying. The whole thing sounded very produced and fake. I'm not surprised to hear about his behavior.

Edited September 1, 2017 by glowbug

[Soobs]

On 8/12/2017 at 10:41 AM, starri said:

So, My Favorite Murder ran into some trouble after being accused of being a bit casually racist.

Honestly, it's some of the murderinos that actually worry me.  I'm a member of the Facebook group, but it's so active I don't participate all that often, and some of the comments I do read have made me think about leaving it more than once.  And they posted audio recently from a live show where, once the murder (a horrible human being, to be sure) was sentenced to death, there was cheering.  That's flat-out gross.

I had to leave the Facebook group as I found that some of the people there were really aggressive and it turned me off. Karen and Georgia shoot from the hip and most of their discussions are improvised. They are bound to misstep and show their biases as the show is an mostly uncensored conversation between friends and that's why it's successful. As you pointed out, they are willing to listen so I really don't understand this whole "calling them out" thing. That should be reserved for people who don't listen.

I just listened to the first 5 episodes of Hanging. It's sort of like Breakdown in that it's a reporter from a newspaper who investigates a case. It's about a 10 year old boy who hung himself in the late 80's. There's always been doubts that his abusive, cop father might have killed him and staged it. I'm not giving too much away, it's stated in the first few minutes. Anyway, I really like it.

[MargeGunderson]

On 9/1/2017 at 6:22 PM, glowbug said:

I listend to Up and Vanished and didn't like it. I finally gave up because it was clear that Payne Lindsay didn't care about the missing person he was covering (Tara something-or-other) and only wanted to be famous and make money. He put very little thought into the episodes and he was very annoying. The whole thing sounded very produced and fake. I'm not surprised to hear about his behavior.

I decided to give it another try this weekend (I'm painting furniture so I needed something to listen to). Apparently I listened to the first 5 episodes and then gave up on.  I remembered some of it on rehearing but clearly it didn't impress me much the first time around. Still not really engaged with it.

[starri]

And in further Bad Podcast Behavior, MFM is on a tour of Australia and New Zealand.  They were doing the third of three shows in Melbourne, when a guy, who clearly didn't read the name of the show he bought tickets for started yelling (not heckling, which they've handled) abuse at Georgia when she was telling her story because she was "making fun of murder."  It apparently upset her so much that she started crying and couldn't finish.

Georgia can annoy me, but seriously, fuck that guy.

Oh yeah, she also has a lot of anxiety about performing in front of a live audience.  Seriously, REALLY fuck that guy.

Edited September 10, 2017 by starri

[RainbowBrite]

On ‎9‎/‎10‎/‎2017 at 11:12 AM, starri said:

And in further Bad Podcast Behavior, MFM is on a tour of Australia and New Zealand.  They were doing the third of three shows in Melbourne, when a guy, who clearly didn't read the name of the show he bought tickets for started yelling (not heckling, which they've handled) abuse at Georgia when she was telling her story because she was "making fun of murder."  It apparently upset her so much that she started crying and couldn't finish.

Georgia can annoy me, but seriously, fuck that guy.

Oh yeah, she also has a lot of anxiety about performing in front of a live audience.  Seriously, REALLY fuck that guy.

They address it in the episode released just today. I definitely support Georgia and think that guy was totally out of line for going to a murder/comedy show and being offended by the murder/comedy discussion.

I think I've figured out why Georgia bugs me: she talks out of one side of her mouth about strong females, female empowerment, etc, and out the other about how Vince has to remind her to eat because she's such a delicate flower who can't feed herself without a man.

[veronicamers]

I cannot with Payne Lindsay, so I don't think I'll be listening to his newest podcast: http://www.marketwired.com/press-release/podcasting-giant-howstuffworks-announces-four-new-shows-expansion-genres-fresh-2232968.htm

A bit of a shame because the Atlanta Child Murders case is an intriguing podcast topic (the lingering doubts over the guilt of the convicted, the extreme pain and trauma the murders caused the community, what was happening in Atlanta political and law enforcement circles at the time, etc.)  I just don't trust Payne Lindsay to do an ethical job with it. 

[starri]

I believe there's another podcast that's covering the Atlanta Child Murders, although for the life of me I can't remember what it's called.  In addition to the fact that Payne is a douche, the host of the one I'm thinking of is a woman of color, which, you know, is nice.

Somebody Knows Something has tease three (THREE!) new seasons, full of all the incisive answers we've come to expect.  They also did a brief update segment in which they announced that they didn't actually have any updates.

[Epeolatrix]

On 9/28/2017 at 4:55 PM, starri said:

I believe there's another podcast that's covering the Atlanta Child Murders, although for the life of me I can't remember what it's called.  In addition to the fact that Payne is a douche, the host of the one I'm thinking of is a woman of color, which, you know, is nice.

I can't find anything about a podcast, but might you mean the FX series "No Place Safe"?

Edited October 1, 2017 by Violet Impulse

[starri]

I don't know how my brain turned a TV series into a podcast, but maybe that was what I was thinking of.

[RainbowBrite]

Has anyone listened to Dirty John, the new podcast put out by the LA Times? There have been two episodes so far and I listened to both of them today. This isn't a story I was at all familiar with and I'm excited to learn more.

 

Also, I just listened to the most recent episode of True Crime Obsessed about FLDS/Warren Jeffs. It's amazing how much that group shares with the likes of the Duggars; similar terms ("keep sweet"), similar requirements for long hair and dresses, arranged marriages.

Edited October 3, 2017 by RainbowBrite
Added TCO portion

[Fatkat]

I'm listening to Dirty John and am outraged by the stupidity of one of his victims, Debra. Still, I highly recommend it.

[lefawn]

20 hours ago, Fatkat said:

I'm listening to Dirty John and am outraged by the stupidity of one of his victims, Debra. Still, I highly recommend it.

Agreed.  Both with the recommendation and the outrage over the stupidity of Debra.  So many red flags.  I really hope she takes some time for herself, gets therapy, and realizes she doesn't need a man to make her whole or happy.

[glowbug]

I listened to Dirty John. It wasn't as compelling as some other true crime podcasts but kept my interest long enough to get through six episodes. I didn't really like the podcaster's voice, both the nasally quality and his tone. There is something really off about Debra and her mother. I imagine there was a lot of dysfunction in her family that led Debra to become the kind of woman who would fall for someone like John and allow him to treat her children and other relatives the way he did. I found the episode focusing on John's past before Debra to be the most interesting episode of the six. I wonder about his daughters.

[Yokosmom]

I found the Dirty John podcast infuriating too, especially when she took him back.  Her mother was just as bad.  I admire people who can forgive people who have killed their loved ones, I really do.  But there is a difference between forgiveness and testifying on the killer's behalf.  He planned the crime--it wasn't a crime of passion.  I just felt that she just spat on her daughter's grave.  "I forgive him, so no problemo" seemed to be her attitude.  Her daughter got no justice at all.

Both mother and daughter (Debra) seemed more interested in being good, trusting people than in accepting ugly reality.  

I'm glad that Terra is getting counseling.

[MargeGunderson]

@RainbowBrite, I am really enjoying True Crime Obsessed, thank you for the rec! At first I thought the hosts were irritating (I usually like my true crime straight up, no humor) but by the second episode I warming up and by the time I finished the 2 episodes on The Keepers I was actually laughing with them. 

[Epeolatrix]

I'm also enjoying True Crime Obsessed much more than I thought I might. I don't like humor in my crime podcasts because it often comes off as a flippant disregard for the victims. The hosts of TCO are clearly excited about their subject matter, but you never doubt that they care about the people involved.

[RainbowBrite]

21 hours ago, Violet Impulse said:

I'm also enjoying True Crime Obsessed much more than I thought I might. I don't like humor in my crime podcasts because it often comes off as a flippant disregard for the victims. The hosts of TCO are clearly excited about their subject matter, but you never doubt that they care about the people involved.

I agree; they walk a fine line between comedy and respect for those affected by the story. This is showcased very well in the episode about Jonestown. I'll never use the phrase "drinking the kool-aid" again after listening to that ep.

[veronicamers]

Anyone listed to Heaven's Gate yet? I loved the first ep.

[Epeolatrix]

Thanks for mentioning it! I didn't even know there was a Heaven's Gate podcast until you mentioned it, so that's now downloaded.

[RainbowBrite]

On ‎10‎/‎19‎/‎2017 at 10:21 AM, veronicamers said:

Anyone listed to Heaven's Gate yet? I loved the first ep.

I don't know much at all about Heaven's Gate and I was about 12 when they were in the news...

Spoiler

it's fascinating that the host may have a personal connection to some members of the group.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

I'm glad that Terra is getting counseling.

And help to ditch that damn uptalk!

[MargeGunderson]

I finally listened to Dirty John and was so annoyed by the stupidity of Debra and her mother I was yelling at my iPad. I was infuriated at how the mother seemed to be shading her dead daughter in support of the controlling son-in-law who had murdered her with a point blank shot to the head. It sounds like she basically threw her own daughter under the bus during the trial. I don’t think Debra’s takeaway from that situation was just about forgiveness, I think she also absorbed some crap about how the man is right and she had better do everything she can to keep him happy. The only people I liked were the nephew Shad, and the daughter who clearly had no time for anyone’s crap (Jacqueline?) Terra seemed sweet but totally dim. 

ETA: I swear Terra sounds like she actually believes in the zombie apocalypse. Honey, if it comes, you are going to be an appetizer.

ETA2 - Terra, I take it all back. You are a bad ass.

Edited March 4, 2018 by MargeGunderson

[BuyMoreAndSave]

The Vanished Podcast is hands down the best true crime podcast out there IMO. The host actually interviews the families of the missing. Therefore the episodes generally have a lot more information available than what is available from any other source. She also covers cases that are more obscure rather than just the same well-known cases that most podcasts cover. Some of the cases she covers are recent disappearances where the public can get more involved in looking for the person, and others are cold cases.

[Guest]

Very much enjoying the Truth & Justice West Memphis Three podcast. After all these years, I still find this case horrifying, fascinating, and deeply troubling. I don't think they'll ever find out who killed those three boys but it sure as hell wasn't the three the state of Arkansas says it was. Bob Ruff is doing excellent investigative work, though.

[starri]

Even if you're not a fan of My Favorite Murder, I would still recommend giving their special breaking news episode about the Golden State Killer that dropped yesterday a listen.  Karen and Patton are friends from her stand-up days, and they've done a few special episodes with him and the two people who helped in finish the book talking about it.  Billy Jensen, who was one of the co-authors called in and they chatted about it for a bit

[starri]

In The Dark is back.  They've released two episodes about their new case, about a man whose conviction gives new meaning to the term "railroaded."  I loved the first season, but I'm having to psych myself up to listen to this season, because I don't know if I can handle such heavy subject matter.

Their first season was about on par with Serial S1, so I'm going to screw up my courage and dive in.

[RainbowBrite]

On ‎5‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 5:25 PM, starri said:

In The Dark is back.  They've released two episodes about their new case, about a man whose conviction gives new meaning to the term "railroaded."  I loved the first season, but I'm having to psych myself up to listen to this season, because I don't know if I can handle such heavy subject matter.

Their first season was about on par with Serial S1, so I'm going to screw up my courage and dive in.

I couldn't listen to the first season because I have two little boys and can't listen to crime podcasts about children. I'm enjoying the second season so far, though!

 

I recently discovered Crime Junkie...most cases discussed are from the Indiana area (I'm not American, so I'm not familiar with that area at all).

Edited May 3, 2018 by RainbowBrite

[Tabbygirl521]

I just finished the last ep of Dirty John. I had seen this featured on Dateline (I think) so I knew the basics but dear God! Debra is unbelievable! Thank goodness Terra had thought so long and hard about self-defense because it was clear that her idiot of a mom was never going to defend any of her children from Her Man. I would love to know more about her other failed marriages. She blames herself for jumping into relationships too quickly, but how about learning to RUN when the first red flag pops up?? She no doubt did learn to be a doormat from her own stupid mother but wow, FIVE failed marriages? 

I am sorry I forgot the heroic young lifeguard’s name but she was truly awesome! Talk about keeping a cool head, in addition to her courage. 

[starri]

I have hoped for a podcast to cover the Wonderland Murders for a while now.  I'm just not sure this is the podcast I wanted.  I mean, it's fine, and I'll keep listening because I find the story to fascinating, but it's just missing...I'm not quite sure.

If you're not familiar with the case, it's perhaps the seediest true crime story I've ever heard.  Parts of it were used as plot points in Boogie Nights, which may give you an idea of the drugs and pornography links in the story.  The details are pretty gruesome, so if you're sensitive to that stuff, this might be one to skip.