S02.E12: Pillar of Salt

[Nashville]

2 hours ago, Gobi said:

Why isn't Strand the leader of this group? 

Ummm... Because Strand has a personality which has grieving mothers and widows lining up to shank his ass, maybe?  :D

 

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My guess is that when the show was first plotted out, it was planned for him to die at the hacienda. Once he became a breakout character, that was dropped and he was kept alive. Unfortunately, TPTB don't know what to do with him, so now they've sidelined him with a wound while they try to think of something.

I think it maybe simpler than that: the writers never expected FTWD to get picked up past the first season, so their writing got a little... sloppy... towards the end, especially with some of the late-arriving characters.  The writers never really thought in terms of constructing an actual backstory for Strand, or investing the character with any significant depth; they just had to get him to a beach house, with a boat swinging at anchor off in the distance.  After which the series would get canned, and they'd all go off and find new jobs.

So when the show was picked up, the writers' third thought - right behind (a) getting shitfaced drunk and (b) innumerable "Do you BELIEVE this fucking horseshit!?!?!?" toasts, of course - was, "Oh, shit - now we have to actually WRITE for this fucking guy...."

:>

 

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I couldn't figure out what Mads was trying to do with the hotel sign. Then I saw Travis and I imagined him thinking "What idiot is stupid enough to light up a neon sign during  the ZA? MADISON!" No doubt, Nick would have the same reaction.

...and if either Travis or Nick - or anybody else with half a gram of common sense, for that matter - saw that neon monstrosity glaring across the night sky, their smartest move would be to turn around and walk in the exact opposite direction.  Because every moaner and marauder with a direct line of sight will be making a beeline to that location, and it will end up being Ground Zero for Apocalypse v2.0.

 

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What kind of a relationship will Travis and Mads have if they reunite? 

One in which grimacing copulation abounds.  Travis and Maddie have already shown us THAT side of their relationship.

 

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Why is oxy so valuable in the ZA? I should think that all the junkies would quickly clean up or be killed off. Seems to me that water and ammunition, to name just two commodities, would be much more valuable. Yet the shopkeepers are planning to attack a walled-in compound  just to get some more oxy.

Keep in mind that in "show time", we're barely a month into the ZA; relatively speaking, things still haven't gotten REAL hard yet.  Much of the water and sewer infrastructure is still functional; the Hotel still has running water, and the Druggie Boyz have to be filling up those  water bottles SOMEWHERE.  Most of the choice looting prizes undoubtedly went in the first rush, but there's probably still a lot of secondary subsistence material available for scrounging - not to mention the DBs have folks without access to functional infrastructure lining up to trade goods for water.  As far as the lives of the DBs go, they have an uncommon large amount of free time on their hands to fill - and nothing says recreation like recreational drugs.  ;)

 

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What the heck is Ofelia up to? Nice to see her back, but she can't really believe that there's any chance of finding her ex-fiance in New Mexico. I'm sure we'll get a flashback showing how her parents broke up the  engagement. At least we'd get to see Ruben Blades again.

Two possibilities:

1. The character is trying to find her fiancé.
2. The actress is trying to get the hell off this set.

;>

 

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Looks like the amibros and/or Chris will die next episode.

Maaayyybeee....  

Personally I think it would be a good idea for Chris and the Baja Breakers to have two or three episodes living large the DoucheBroPocalypse dream of consequence-free looting and shooting, before having the props knocked out from underneath their endless summer road trip in suitably spectacular fashion - something resulting in a wounded and bewildered Chris looking around in a dazed fashion at a scattering of dead DoucheBro bodies while someone - a farmer with a long rifle, a short temper, and a weepy daughter would do nicely - walks toward Chris, dusty boots crunching in gravel...

So of course it'll probably go your way.  Of course.  :P

[Nashville]

18 hours ago, maczero said:

She was looking to stab just any one.  Strand put down her zombie daughter so mom was looking to make him pay.  

I think Ilene (Mom of the UnBride) had issues long before she caught Hubby macking on daughter Jessica's face - literally.  We saw it in Ilene's interaction with Elena even before Hubby keeled over.  Ilene's view of the Proper World Order is very simple and transparent: she barks the orders, and the rest of the planet steps right smart to accommodate her.

But that's not the way the world is any more.  Not only has Ilene lost both her husband and her daughter, she's lost her position of status.  None of the peasants are any longer attending to their proper duty of keeping Queen Ilene happy, and it pisses her off - so Ilene actively searches for targets against which she can rationalize her ire:

• Elena was the first and most obvious choice, of course.  Never mind that Elena's swift action in locking the banquet room door, callous though it was, probably at least slowed down the initial outbreak and saved the lives of many other guests.  Never mind that as far as anyone knew at the time, the wedding party was the sole vector for introduction of the ZV into the Hotel.  In Ilene's view Elena wasn't a concerned manager trying to protect the greater good; Elena was a servant who betrayed her masters and betters, to protect the common rabble.  And that warranted punishment.
• Ilene's rationale for stabbing Strand seems more direct, but it doesn't hold up under examination.  Strand "killed" her daughter?  Pretty sure Daddy chewing off Daughter's cheek had a leeeetle bit more to do with THAT, dearie.  Strand "re-killed" your daughter?  Yes he did, true.  But he and every other living human in the Hotel - yourself included - were still resting up and recovering from yesterday's wholesale re-kill of a few hundred groaners, every one of which was once somebody else's son or daughter.  So what's the real issue here?  Is Jessica supposed to be some special zombie snowflake, exempt from the rules applied to lower-caste zombies?  Or is Ilene's core issue that nobody cleared it with her first?

I greatly suspect Strand wasn't Ilene's target at all; I think Ilene expected Elena to answer the door, and came up with the first excuse which popped to mind when Ilene saw she had sunk her blade into the wrong belly.  Didn't really matter, though; Ilene was already advancing steel as soon as the door came open, so she would've stabbed WHOEVER opened the door - be it Strand, Maddie, Alicia, Oscar, etc.  The only differences in outcome would be whose blood was on the blade, and what rationalization Ilene came up with in the way of self-justification.

 

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Is there any reason that the sick get fed to the wall rather than finding a way for them to die less painfully?

Keeps the "moat" - aka "wall" - filled, and extends one's service to the Colonia by continuing to provide protection even after death.  

Talk about the gift that keeps on giving....  ;)

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Madison Still Can't Get A Handle On Leading Fear The Walking Dead

Nobody's saying she should be Rick Grimes, but something's just not working.

[maczero]

1 hour ago, Nashville said:

Keeps the "moat" - aka "wall" - filled, and extends one's service to the Colonia by continuing to provide protection even after death.  

Talk about the gift that keeps on giving....  ;)

Oh I get that adding more zombies helps.  My question is why can't a sick person be killed relatively painlessly and then be added to the wall.  Hell, hanging or having your wrists slit would be preferable to be torn apart by the living dead.

Edited September 20, 2016 by maczero

[Raven1707]

The Cable Live + Same Day ratings are in for "Pillar of Salt":

“Fear the Walking Dead” actually improved a little week to week, rising a tenth of a point to a 1.6 in adults 18-49. [3.616 million viewers]

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2016/09/20/sunday-cable-ratings-sept-18-2016/

And here are the Live + Same Day ratings for Season 2 so far:

04-10-16 “Monster” 6.674 million
04-17-16 “We All Fall Down” 5.581 million
04-24-16 “Ouroboros” 4.726 million
05-01-16 “Blood on the Streets” 4.803 million
05-08-16 “Captive” 4.414 million
05-15-16 “Sicut Cervus” 4.486 million
05-22-16 “Shiva” 4.388 million

08-21-16 “Grotesque” 3.864 million
08-28-16 “Los Muertos” 3.661 million
09-04-16 “Do Not Disturb” 2.991 million
09-11-16 “Pablo & Jessica” 3.401 million
09-18-16 “Pillar of Salt” 3.616 million

[Raven1707]

7 hours ago, Nashville said:

I think it maybe simpler than that: the writers never expected FTWD to get picked up past the first season, so their writing got a little... sloppy... towards the end, especially with some of the late-arriving characters.  The writers never really thought in terms of constructing an actual backstory for Strand, or investing the character with any significant depth; they just had to get him to a beach house, with a boat swinging at anchor off in the distance.  After which the series would get canned, and they'd all go off and find new jobs.

So when the show was picked up, the writers' third thought - right behind (a) getting shitfaced drunk and (b) innumerable "Do you BELIEVE this fucking horseshit!?!?!?" toasts, of course - was, "Oh, shit - now we have to actually WRITE for this fucking guy...."

Well, except for the fact that the show already had a commitment from AMC for two seasons months BEFORE the first episode of Season 1 premiered on August 23, 2015...

AMC CONFIRMS 15-EPISODE ORDER FOR SECOND SEASON OF “FEAR THE WALKING DEAD”

BEVERLY HILLS, CA – July 31, 2015 – AMC announced today from the Television Critics Association (TCA) Press Tour a 15-episode order for the second season of “Fear the Walking Dead,”  which will air in 2016. One of summer’s most anticipated new series, “Fear the Walking Dead” was greenlit back in March for two seasons. As previously announced, the series will debut in the U.S. Sunday, August 23rd at 9:00 p.m. ET/PT with an extended 90-minute episode. 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/07/31/second-15-episode-season-confirmed-for-fear-the-walking-dead/440461/

Edited September 20, 2016 by Raven1707
clarification

[raven]

On 9/19/2016 at 5:09 PM, BananaRama said:

I wish the showrunner would do a better job of fleshing out details and being consistent - especially with characters' behaviors - last week Madison was a pragmatic leader who wanted to do what was best for their little hotel community and this week she is a selfish jerk single-handedly risking everything.  But let me get back to why I like this show... I like the assortment of stories and character studies.  

I agree - I think with Madison a lot of the fault is with KD's portrayal.  I'm not totally surprised at what she did because she's shown to put Nick first in the past, but rather than feel a bit of understanding towards her or feel her desperation, it's just frustrating.   She has the forceful personality to be in charge (which Strand doesn't, doing what you want and being conning and charming isn't the same as leading) but she has an enormous blind spot.  A double blind spot really because she's not seeing how competent Alicia's becoming.  It's not an unfamiliar family dynamic, and KD has some decent moments but an overall flat portrayal. 

I like the assortment of stories too - I hope this show doesn't follow the same paths that TWD did, the possibility is there to branch out.

Edited September 21, 2016 by raven

[Nashville]

3 hours ago, Raven1707 said:

Well, except for the fact that the show already had a commitment from AMC for two seasons months BEFORE the first episode of Season 1 premiered on August 23, 2015...

Why do you feel the need to screw up a GREAT story with this reality shit?  Leave that to Big Brother.  :D

[Nashville]

8 hours ago, maczero said:

Oh I get that adding more zombies helps.  My question is why can't a sick person be killed relatively painlessly and then be added to the wall.  Hell, hanging or having your wrists slit would be preferable to be torn apart by the living dead.

You're not really a member of the gang if you skip the jump-in.  :>

Edited September 21, 2016 by Nashville

[LordBowen]

Just watched the season premiere of Agents of Shield. My favorite part of the episode was seeing Lorenzo Henrie cast as Gabe. It gives me serious hope Chris is not long for this (FTWD) world.

Edited September 21, 2016 by LordBowen

[placate]

Is there a chart for all the new actors in this show now that I tune out when someone starts speaking in Spanish but there's like 50+ new people?

[xaxat]

I wouldn't worry too much about it. Nick and Madison will get them all killed off.

[Raven1707]

17 hours ago, Nashville said:

Why do you feel the need to screw up a GREAT story with this reality shit?  Leave that to Big Brother.  :D

Yeah, I know I can be insufferable when it comes to facts...

[txhorns79]

I just can't with Madison.  I just want someone to repeatedly slap her while telling her that her son does not care about her.  I can totally understand a parent wanting to know for certain their child is okay, but she is just so reckless and selfish.  She would literally sacrifice everyone else on the off chance that Nick might show up.  It makes me feel for Alicia because it's like having no parent at all.     

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But that's not the way the world is any more.  Not only has Ilene lost both her husband and her daughter, she's lost her position of status.  None of the peasants are any longer attending to their proper duty of keeping Queen Ilene happy, and it pisses her off - so Ilene actively searches for targets against which she can rationalize her ire

I think it's more that she's traumatized.  She watched her husband die, then take a large bite out of her daughter's face.  She was then locked in a room with both of them as all hell broke loose.  That's enough to push anyone over the edge. 

[madam magpie]

On 9/19/2016 at 4:26 PM, FishyJoe said:

Didn't Nick leave on his own? And why on earth would he be attracted to a shiny light?

It's so ridiculous, I'm speechless.

It was more that if he'd changed his mind (as she desperately hoped) and was wandering alone and destitute, he might see the sign as a beacon. Madison is an enabler, and she's obsessed with affecting Nick's behavior. She's trying to control the addict because he's totally out of control. It can't be done, of course, but that approach is extremely common. I don't find her behavior unbelievable at all, actually, even as think she's super unsympathetic. I wonder if they have Al-Anon in the zombie apocalypse...

[Nashville]

16 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

I think it's more that she's traumatized.  She watched her husband die, then take a large bite out of her daughter's face.  She was then locked in a room with both of them as all hell broke loose.  That's enough to push anyone over the edge. 

Considering over the course of the past month (show-time-wise) everybody alive has had a close-up view of the undead munching on everything with a pulse, I'd venture to guess the only people on earth at this point who AREN'T traumatized are sociopaths. 

Thing is, though, we haven't seen any of the other trauma victims acting like their particular stressors give them leave to go all StabbyTown on their perceived transgressors.  In the short time we've known Ilene, we've already seen her threaten one person (Elena), kidnap another (Hector), and attempt to murder a third (Strand) - offenses against living humans at a time when all human life is already existing in a state of accentuated peril. 

So no, I'm not very inclined to cut her very much slack.  Strand may feel differently, though - although "slack" may not be what's on his mind to cut....  ;>

[txhorns79]

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Thing is, though, we haven't seen any of the other trauma victims acting like their particular stressors give them leave to go all StabbyTown on their perceived transgressors.  In the short time we've known Ilene, we've already seen her threaten one person (Elena), kidnap another (Hector), and attempt to murder a third (Strand) - offenses against living humans at a time when all human life is already existing in a state of accentuated peril. 

I don't know about that.  We've seen two death cults, one who poisoned a whole bunch of otherwise healthy people, and the other that requires sick people to kill themselves in a pretty terrible way, along with a gang that seems happy to use violence to get what they want.  Ilene was certainly not justified in going after Strand, but she had a specific plan in kidnapping Hector, to get the hotel keys, and her threats towards Elena in the prior episode seem justified given their history. 

[Nena]

9 hours ago, madam magpie said:

It was more that if he'd changed his mind (as she desperately hoped) and was wandering alone and destitute, he might see the sign as a beacon. Madison is an enabler, and she's obsessed with affecting Nick's behavior. She's trying to control the addict because he's totally out of control. It can't be done, of course, but that approach is extremely common. I don't find her behavior unbelievable at all, actually, even as think she's super unsympathetic. I wonder if they have Al-Anon in the zombie apocalypse...

Absolutely this.  Madison is co-dependent.  Her entire life has been structured around saving Nick.  She needs Jeff VanVonderen to see that sign and have a nice long chat about how she's the reason her family is broken.  Then he can ship her off for 2 weeks of counseling and leave Alicia and Strand in peace.

I still wonder if the dad was an addict rather than just depressed or suicidal.  She made a comment early in S1 about how Nick's issues were in his genes.  At the time I figured she was in recovery, then they kept showing her drinking, but able to stop.  I don't see her as a parallel to anyone in the mothership (aside from maybe having bad acting destroy a character, ala Andrea).  Rather, she's a parallel to every selfish mother from the couch in Intervention who doesn't think her child's recovery counts unless SHE is the one who engineers it.  Otherwise, her life has no meaning.

From that perspective, her return to obsessing about Nick is completely in character.  It was organizing the hotel camp that wasn't.  The only thing that scares her more than Nick relapsing is Nick not relapsing, but of his own volition rather than hers.  If she hears even a hint he's out there functioning in the real world, her goal is going to be to sabotage it, hence barging into the interrogation and turning on that sign.  Everyone else, Alicia, Strand, even Travis, are just people who don't "get" the things she's convinced only she understands.

[lezlers]

1 hour ago, Nena said:

Absolutely this.  Madison is co-dependent.  Her entire life has been structured around saving Nick.  She needs Jeff VanVonderen to see that sign and have a nice long chat about how she's the reason her family is broken.  Then he can ship her off for 2 weeks of counseling and leave Alicia and Strand in peace.

I still wonder if the dad was an addict rather than just depressed or suicidal.  She made a comment early in S1 about how Nick's issues were in his genes.  At the time I figured she was in recovery, then they kept showing her drinking, but able to stop.  I don't see her as a parallel to anyone in the mothership (aside from maybe having bad acting destroy a character, ala Andrea).  Rather, she's a parallel to every selfish mother from the couch in Intervention who doesn't think her child's recovery counts unless SHE is the one who engineers it.  Otherwise, her life has no meaning.

From that perspective, her return to obsessing about Nick is completely in character.  It was organizing the hotel camp that wasn't.  The only thing that scares her more than Nick relapsing is Nick not relapsing, but of his own volition rather than hers.  If she hears even a hint he's out there functioning in the real world, her goal is going to be to sabotage it, hence barging into the interrogation and turning on that sign.  Everyone else, Alicia, Strand, even Travis, are just people who don't "get" the things she's convinced only she understands.

Yep.  Madison is the GODDAMN WORST.

[Daryleena]

On 9/21/2016 at 10:14 PM, Nashville said:

Considering over the course of the past month (show-time-wise) everybody alive has had a close-up view of the undead munching on everything with a pulse, I'd venture to guess the only people on earth at this point who AREN'T traumatized are sociopaths    ( like....umm...Chris...)

Thing is, though, we haven't seen any of the other trauma victims acting like their particular stressors give them leave to go all StabbyTown on their perceived transgressors.  In the short time we've known Ilene, we've already seen her threaten one person (Elena), kidnap another (Hector), and attempt to murder a third (Strand) - offenses against living humans at a time when all human life is already existing in a state of accentuated peril. 

So no, I'm not very inclined to cut her very much slack.  Strand may feel differently, though - although "slack" may not be what's on his mind to cut....  ;>

Edited September 25, 2016 by Daryleena

[AnnaMayWong]

On Sunday, September 18, 2016 at 11:12 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Ah, there is the Madison I remember!  The one that is an annoying, selfish jackass and poorly acted by an actress I use to really like.  Nice going there, Maddie.  You easily could have gotten yourself and Elena killed, therefore, dooming Strand as well, which is the worst offense (at least to me!) And then when you do finally get back, you freaking turn the big-ass neon lights on, letting everyone; including armed gangsters and other potential baddies; that the hotel is open for looting and other options.  Brilliant!

And then poor Alicia is practically pleading with her to remember she's her child to and Madison.... just stares at her.  I swear, I don't know what Kim Dickens was going for, but she really made Madison look like she was thinking "Oh, sweetie!  I could never love you as much as I love Nick! Your hair isn't anywhere ratty enough to be my favorite!  I miss my precious Nick!"  Ugh, this was not a good episode for Madison.

At least the stupidity has apparently put Travis back into their sights.  Chris noticeably wasn't with him, so I'm sure we'll find out about that next week.  Hopefully.

Ofeila finally returns and she was mainly just wistfully remembering her ex-fiancee (played by that guy from Manhatten!), and then heading to America.

Nick is still in a relationship with Luciana (boo!), and trying to deal with Alejandro, who is getting paranoid and freaking out.  Hmm...

Favorite scene was the interaction between Strand and Alicia.  Probably helps that I find Coleman Domingo and Ayicia Debnam-Carey to be two of the better actors on this show.

THIS was lip-smackin' good! and HILARIOUS (très)!

[natyxg]

I don't have a problem with Madison "obsessing" over Nick. I think it's the normal reaction of any parent who got separated from her/his child in a situation like this to worry about them and want to reunite. Travis would be the same way if he got separated from Chris. My problem is with the stupidity of her actions. Even if the "gringo" IS Nick, there is no reason why just by turning on the lights he would come home. He might not see the lights, he might have no reason to go there if he found a place to live, etc, etc. And at the very least advertising their whereabouts could attract more zombies, and at the very worst it could attract bad people. One of their biggest advantages was the fact that the hotel was so big and they are so few that it might seem abandoned. It would have been different if she decided she wanted to go to the colonia or something like that, but her actions were just stupid and reckless. The hotel people would be right to just kick her the fuck out. However, I think in the end it's just lazy writing they're using to reunite the group at the end of the season. Travis will see the lights and so might Nick, and when the Colonia inevitably falls apart, like ever settlement in this universe, he might go there too.

[candall]

On ‎9‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 6:45 AM, Nena said:

Absolutely this.  Madison is co-dependent.  Her entire life has been structured around saving Nick.  She needs Jeff VanVonderen to see that sign and have a nice long chat about how she's the reason her family is broken.  Then he can ship her off for 2 weeks of counseling and leave Alicia and Strand in peace.

I still wonder if the dad was an addict rather than just depressed or suicidal.  She made a comment early in S1 about how Nick's issues were in his genes.  At the time I figured she was in recovery, then they kept showing her drinking, but able to stop.  I don't see her as a parallel to anyone in the mothership (aside from maybe having bad acting destroy a character, ala Andrea).  Rather, she's a parallel to every selfish mother from the couch in Intervention who doesn't think her child's recovery counts unless SHE is the one who engineers it.  Otherwise, her life has no meaning.

From that perspective, her return to obsessing about Nick is completely in character.  It was organizing the hotel camp that wasn't.  The only thing that scares her more than Nick relapsing is Nick not relapsing, but of his own volition rather than hers.  If she hears even a hint he's out there functioning in the real world, her goal is going to be to sabotage it, hence barging into the interrogation and turning on that sign.  Everyone else, Alicia, Strand, even Travis, are just people who don't "get" the things she's convinced only she understands.

I thought this was excellent analysis.

Plus, I was missing Intervention earlier and tried to locate any upcoming episodes.  Double play!

[Jordan27]

On 9/18/2016 at 9:25 PM, WordsWordsWords said:

Oh, one more thing. I'm interested in Ofelia's story, both present-day and back-story.

Ofelia doesn't have a story.  I can't remember a character who has been on a show for two years who has no storyline.  The first season she was shot and then she disappeared in season 2 on the boat.  I forgot her.  She shows up now and she is running around a hotel.   What a totally wasted character.

 

Well, we know that Alejandro is a kook and Colonia is just as screwed up as Terminus and Alexandria were, just different.

Is there any good place to stay?  No, not the Holiday Inn Walker Express, where Maddie puts on a light show nightly.

Maddie:  "I'm not really a mother, but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Walker Express last night."