Cold Case - General Discussion

[MarylandGirl]

20 hours ago, Bastet said:

I appreciate it, but no thank you.  I hate most cop shows because they normalize and even celebrate police misconduct, so I only watch the exceptions.  Without a Trace was very much not one, plus I didn't care for any of the characters other than Marianne Jean-Baptise's, so I have no interest in giving it a third try; the second shot was more than it deserved.

This show didn't have clean hands on that front, but was a lesser offender than most -- Scotty was pretty much the only one who did awful shit and got away with it.  I'd have never watched it if not for the music and the whole flashback format, because it's quite repetitive and the personal storylines all suck, but those closing montages are seriously powerful meditations on the impact of violence.  They'd put someone in cuffs and all I'd think about is how the case is going to fall apart once the arrestee secures legal representation, but then I'd completely let that go as I got caught up in the demonstration of how many lives were permanently altered by one horrible choice -- the victim, obviously, but also their loved ones, the killer, the killer's loved ones, witnesses, etc.

I get it! We all have different tastes. I agree that the ending scenes in Cold Case can be very moving (and often make me tear up). And I like the flashbacks, including the music. They've helped me learn more about certain eras in the past, too.

Part of what I like about Without a Trace and other shows involving missing persons is the chance that they can be found alive and have a happier ending. (I've realized that most of my favorite Without a Trace eps are the ones that end with the victim being found safe.) Cold Case is good in that way because justice can be found for an old crime. Or maybe someone learns that the person they loved didn't just abandon them--they were murdered. There's more of a humanity to it than just solving the murder of the week.

[Percysowner]

On 11/5/2023 at 1:58 PM, Bastet said:

I appreciate it, but no thank you.  I hate most cop shows because they normalize and even celebrate police misconduct, so I only watch the exceptions.  Without a Trace was very much not one, plus I didn't care for any of the characters other than Marianne Jean-Baptise's, so I have no interest in giving it a third try; the second shot was more than it deserved.

This show didn't have clean hands on that front, but was a lesser offender than most -- Scotty was pretty much the only one who did awful shit and got away with it.  I'd have never watched it if not for the music and the whole flashback format, because it's quite repetitive and the personal storylines all suck, but those closing montages are seriously powerful meditations on the impact of violence.  They'd put someone in cuffs and all I'd think about is how the case is going to fall apart once the arrestee secures legal representation, but then I'd completely let that go as I got caught up in the demonstration of how many lives were permanently altered by one horrible choice -- the victim, obviously, but also their loved ones, the killer, the killer's loved ones, witnesses, etc.

I think one of the reasons this feels less like copagenda than other procedurals  is that the whole premise of the show is that the cops screwed up the first time. Oh, sure there were the occasional cases where the victim was believed to just be a missing person, but most of the cases were cold because the cops just missed things. It was also pretty realistic about what kind of victims get overlooked, poor people, marginalized people, and victims of powerful people.

Yes, I was sure that the cases would fall apart once a lawyer got involved and most of them would never have been solved it the murderer had just kept their mouth shut and not confessed, because there usually wasn't a lot of actual evidence left. I didn't mind the suspension of disbelief at the result because the final montages are so damned moving and so well done. Plus the show cared about the victims, not the murderers or how the cops diligently solved the case of a person with a picture on a white board. We saw the victims and their killers as fully rounded people. That doesn't happen in most police dramas.

Edited November 6, 2023 by Percysowner
double posted my comments

[ljenkins782]

2 hours ago, Percysowner said:

I think one of the reasons this feels less like copagenda than other procedurals  is that the whole premise of the show is that the cops screwed up the first time. Oh, sure there were the occasional cases where the victim was believed to just be a missing person, but most of the cases were cold because the cops just missed things. It was also pretty realistic about what kind of victims get overlooked, poor people, marginalized people, and victims of powerful people.

Yes, I was sure that the cases would fall apart once a lawyer got involved and most of them would never have been solved it the murderer had just kept their mouth shut and not confessed, because there usually wasn't a lot of actual evidence left. I didn't mind the suspension of disbelief at the result because the final montages are so damned moving and so well done. Plus the show cared about the victims, not the murderers or how the cops diligently solved the case of a person with a picture on a white board. We saw the victims and their killers as fully rounded people. That doesn't happen in most police dramas.

Yeah, the other reason it didn't bother me as much when they circumvented the process was that in the retelling of the story, you knew that the person they arrested was actually guilty and an innocent person wasn't going to be railroaded.

I'm generally disinterested in cop shows, this one only got my attention for the flashbacks. I wish they could have kept it going a little longer, but it definitely started to lose its way toward the end. 

[Lisa418722]

9 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

I'm generally disinterested in cop shows, this one only got my attention for the flashbacks. I wish they could have kept it going a little longer, but it definitely started to lose its way toward the end. 

I loved this show until the last season or so when it became more about their personal lives rather than the crimes, especially Scotty's storylines.  I wish they hadn't killed off Elisa because he seemed OK but after she died, he went off the rails.  Sleeping around, the story with the priest who had molested his brother, his mom's rape (I'm sure I'm missing some storylines).  Lily went from no family to her mom with all her problems, then her dad and brother, not to mention Chris becoming involved with Scotty.  

[Bastet]

On 11/6/2023 at 3:15 PM, Percysowner said:

I think one of the reasons this feels less like copagenda

An internet search tells me you did not coin this phrase, but I hadn't come across it before your post and now absolutely love it as a description of everything I hate about most crime dramas -- thank you!

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’m back to doing another rewatch (weird that this forum has me never having posted when I know I have) and I just want to drop kick Scotty in the face.

The ending of season one’s “Disco Inferno” remains a top fave for the slo-mo dancing moves by Thom Barry!

And I can’t believe I missed this the first few times but in season two’s Strange Fruit” which is so very very hard to watch-we’re told Jeffries was 12 when he found Zeke-and 42 years passed, which would have made him 54. But a couple episodes later, it’s his birthday and he’s turning…60?!!

By season three, there are a handful of episodes where they use the same actors when more than 20 years have passed, which I found odd.

My favorites are the ones with the cases being from the 20s-early 70s, though. 

And I’m hating the turn into more of the characters’ personal lives. So.Not.Interested.

[andromeda331]

23 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

And I’m hating the turn into more of the characters’ personal lives. So.Not.Interested.

So do I. And it only gets worse as the show goes on.

[DMK]

I did a rewatch a couple years ago, I ended up not hating the characters’ personal lives storylines as much as I did the first time around. It really ended up not eating as much time as I had thought previously, or maybe I’m just more patient in my agedness and wisdom than I used to be. 

[ljenkins782]

49 minutes ago, DMK said:

I did a rewatch a couple years ago, I ended up not hating the characters’ personal lives storylines as much as I did the first time around. It really ended up not eating as much time as I had thought previously, or maybe I’m just more patient in my agedness and wisdom than I used to be. 

There were some storylines that didn't bother me (Lily's mom and sister, Scotty and Alyssa, Stillman's wife and daughter, Will's wife, Vera's marital issues). Actually, I'd say a lot of the earlier season's personal life plots were woven in fairly smoothly and without too much disruption. The mistake they made later on was making the stories way too much of the episodes and in some cases, just overwhelming the stories, like the Lily vs Stephen Baldwin thing. And the Scotty relationship storylines seemed so repetitive, always some tough-talking chick that starts out adversarial and turns into a relationship. He had hideous taste in women.

Quote

The ending of season one’s “Disco Inferno” remains a top fave for the slo-mo dancing moves by Thom Barry!

I loved that too, plus Lily and Kite dancing in the disco. They had some nice end tag moments like that sometimes, like when Vera's marriage tanks, they show the guys showing up to his motel room with beers, it was a very unobtrusive way to acknowledge the personal life thread without overwhelming the actual storyline of the episode. 

[Bastet]

Some of the personal storylines were okay, but not when it came to romantic relationships, especially Lilly's and Scotty's -- it's like those two were having a contest to see who could have the most ridiculous taste in romantic partners.  Scotty and Christina was absolutely awful (when even Nick frakkin' Vera knows something is a bad idea, it's a BAD idea) but they were all varying degrees of no thanks (except Lilly and Kite, as they were actually good together while it lasted, it just wasn't going to last, and Scotty and Elisa weren't annoying).

19 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

the Lily vs Stephen Baldwin thing.

OMG, I did not dread a name in the guest starring credits more than Nicki Aycox's (may she rest in peace, but I fucking hated Christina and that stupid faux innocent, confused face she'd pull when she just had no earthly idea why Lilly was sick of her never-ending shit), but Stephen Baldwin came very, very close.

[Percysowner]

On 11/27/2023 at 2:03 PM, DMK said:

I did a rewatch a couple years ago, I ended up not hating the characters’ personal lives storylines as much as I did the first time around. It really ended up not eating as much time as I had thought previously, or maybe I’m just more patient in my agedness and wisdom than I used to be. 

For the most part I agree. Scotty got a bit more focus than I would have liked. I was more interested in Kat Miller and her daughter. The only Lily story I really hated was the "You must forgive your father who left you with an alcoholic, neglectful mother and made NO effort to save you or your sister".

 

[kathyk2]

9 minutes ago, Percysowner said:

For the most part I agree. Scotty got a bit more focus than I would have liked. I was more interested in Kat Miller and her daughter. The only Lily story I really hated was the "You must forgive your father who left you with an alcoholic, neglectful mother and made NO effort to save you or your sister".

 

I can't decide which show had the worst backstories Cold Case or Criminal Minds. I don't know why one of them couldn't have a happy family. Lily deserved a better love life.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I’m thinking I just must have been EXTRENELY lucky in the high school I ended up in-my school was TOTALLY  about Football-but it was diverse. I was never part of the popular crowd, but I knew them-and we all got along okay. NONE of the jocks I knew (and I knew most of them-upper class and my own) acted like the arrogant -raped-pieces of shit as I’ve seen in this show. Or maybe I was just lucky?

I mean, there were assholey asses who teetered and I could see it in their eyes, but I knew to steer clear.  And this was during the 80s. It makes it so uncomfortable to also watch those types of episodes that aren’t really lined from our history like the ones from the 20s-60s.

[joanne3482]

On 11/6/2023 at 9:52 AM, MarylandGirl said:

They've helped me learn more about certain eras in the past, too.

Whenever I'm pointing out the deficiencies in US school system I come back to the fact that the first time I heard anything about the Japanese internment camps in the US was from the episode of Cold Case. 

[andromeda331]

On 12/19/2023 at 3:48 PM, joanne3482 said:

Whenever I'm pointing out the deficiencies in US school system I come back to the fact that the first time I heard anything about the Japanese internment camps in the US was from the episode of Cold Case. 

I first heard about it in Babysitters Club book off all places. That Cold Case episode was the first time I ever seen it referenced on TV.  

[MadameCassie]

I loved this show! Only watched some episodes growing up. Just finished the whole series on HBO Max. Such a good show. From the cases (different time periods to present time) to the music to the ending scenes to the team of detectives (great cast). 
 

Such a unique show for a procedural and it worked. But like 99% procedurals, there are flaws. The flaws didn’t overpower the show for me tho.
 

I didn’t realize back then that ppl were shipping Lily and Scotty together. I don’t see any romantic chemistry between them. Just platonic chemistry. Plus she slept with her hot mess sister Chris so that’s a hell no lol

Scotty’s love life was a hot mess on the show (except for Elissa). I thought the Christina one was really bad and dragged for too long. But the Frankie (lab tech)? Wow, Scotty dumped her once he found out she still was legally married (by her husband who vandalized his car and attacked him), but then they kiss and make up leaving his date at that cop bar??? Scotty was initially smart ending things there after that. But that episode pissed me off lol. I’m glad Scotty ended it for good tho. Frankie was pissed as hell. She seemed crazy lol. The ADA relationship was only like for a few episodes, so it didn’t really bother me that much and it wasn’t really a romantic relationship either.

I really wish they gave Scotty a levelheaded love interest, an actual, romantic relationship. 

Lily’s relationships had its issues but they were actual relationships and wasn’t too much imo. I was less annoyed with that. 

With Will, Nick, and Stillman, their personal storylines were better written.

 

 

 

[The Wild Sow]

"Bullet" was just on (2nd half of "The Last Drive-In" -- and, anachronism alert:

Barry (Diane's date, the kid Paul shot) is at the concession stand, telling his friend how he's about to get into Diane's pants -- "I got the peach schnapps, got some 'Ludes...tonight's the night..."

Neat trick considering peach schnapps didn't come out till 1984 -- 6 years after that scene was set.

[MarylandGirl]

On 2/11/2024 at 10:20 PM, The Wild Sow said:

"Bullet" was just on (2nd half of "The Last Drive-In" -- and, anachronism alert:

Barry (Diane's date, the kid Paul shot) is at the concession stand, telling his friend how he's about to get into Diane's pants -- "I got the peach schnapps, got some 'Ludes...tonight's the night..."

Neat trick considering peach schnapps didn't come out till 1984 -- 6 years after that scene was set.

Wait, really, peach schnapps were just invented in 1984? I just assumed they'd been around basically forever!

The More You Know!

[andromeda331]

I always laughed at the peach schnapps. My dad and his friends when they were in high school bought a bunch of schnapps. They never got more sick in their life then after they drank it all. 

[kathyk2]

I watched The Plan last night. I forgot how dark that episode was. The boys were supposed to be thirteen but they looked like they were eight. If I were on the jury I would have a hard time to convict a child molester.

[andromeda331]

27 minutes ago, kathyk2 said:

I watched The Plan last night. I forgot how dark that episode was. The boys were supposed to be thirteen but they looked like they were eight. If I were on the jury I would have a hard time to convict a child molester.

They do look a lot younger. I'd have a hard time convicting anyone of the murder of the swim coach.

[Bastet]

Earlier today, I heard Edie Brickell's "Circle" for the first time in a long while, and immediately thought of the fantastic "Sleepover" episode (which has "Circle" as its closing montage song).  That got me thinking how many songs have become indelibly linked in my mind with closing montages from this show.  It's one thing where I wasn't overly familiar with the song before hearing it used here, but there are songs I'd been listening to frequently, sometimes for decades, before this show came along, yet still became immediately and permanently associated with the episode.  The biggest example of that is "Dream On", which came out in 1973.  So I grew up with it, and over 30 years later it gets used for the "Bad Night" closing montage, and ever since I can't hear it without thinking of the fantasy of poor Angus seeing the truck in time and swerving to avoid it.

[ljenkins782]

On 3/30/2024 at 8:49 PM, Bastet said:

Earlier today, I heard Edie Brickell's "Circle" for the first time in a long while, and immediately thought of the fantastic "Sleepover" episode (which has "Circle" as its closing montage song).  That got me thinking how many songs have become indelibly linked in my mind with closing montages from this show.  It's one thing where I wasn't overly familiar with the song before hearing it used here, but there are songs I'd been listening to frequently, sometimes for decades, before this show came along, yet still became immediately and permanently associated with the episode.  The biggest example of that is "Dream On", which came out in 1973.  So I grew up with it, and over 30 years later it gets used for the "Bad Night" closing montage, and ever since I can't hear it without thinking of the fantasy of poor Angus seeing the truck in time and swerving to avoid it.

I always think of the first episode and Lily marching that guy through the downpour when I hear Have You Ever Seen the Rain. And almost every Bruce Springsteen song used in 8 Years makes me think of the scenes from that episode.

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, ljenkins782 said:

And almost every Bruce Springsteen song used in 8 Years makes me think of the scenes from that episode.

May and Clem drive me nuts* - there's needing to grow up in a way that's completely understandable and sympathetic, and then there's these two, and I just love how neither of them mention the fact he's planning to abandon his child by running off with her - so if I watch that episode I tend to skip their scenes, but I do think of her standing outside the church after her mom's funeral when I hear "Drive All Night".

And I love the flashback with Sally and Clem when they acknowledge they've somehow lost what they had and it's not coming back, so I think of it when I hear "I'm on Fire".

*Young May kind of drives me nuts in general, which is a shame, as I could have been better invested in her with another actor, but the one playing her does not do it for me and is in fact off-putting in a vague but persistent way I can't properly articulate.

[BetterButter]

‘Cold Case’ Reboot From Creator Meredith Stiehm Eyed By CBS

[kathyk2]

On 4/12/2024 at 5:13 PM, BetterButter said:

‘Cold Case’ Reboot From Creator Meredith Stiehm Eyed By CBS

I hope this series gets picked up. Cold Case is one of my favorite shows. I wish they would tone down the personal drama.

[andromeda331]

5 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I hope this series gets picked up. Cold Case is one of my favorite shows. I wish they would tone down the personal drama.

So do I. Stick with the cases.

[ljenkins782]

14 hours ago, kathyk2 said:

I hope this series gets picked up. Cold Case is one of my favorite shows. I wish they would tone down the personal drama.

Hmmm, the article suggests that they want to bring back the Scotty character in a”significant way” but that Lily doesn’t seem to be a part of the idea. 
 

Besides being kinda shitty since Lily was the character in the original, it makes me wary of them doing even more personal stories, Scotty’s terrible taste in women was heavily featured in the original.

It wouldn’t be set in Philly and would only have one of the original cast, might as well just make it a different series, it’s not like there aren’t a million cop shows with similar premises.

[Bastet]

Yeah, this show really ran out of steam and was rightly canceled; if they had so many more great case ideas, why didn't they use them then?  Scotty was the worst cop in the division (worse than Nick, even, yes -- dude arranged an extrajudicial execution), and he's the one they're looking to carry over into the new group?

It's very far from the being picked up stage at this point, but if it eventually is, I'd have to hear something that indicates it might join the original in making my very short list of exceptions to my hatred of cop shows.  Because there certainly isn't any such indication so far.  (I enjoy looking at Danny Pino as much as the next person, mind you, but there has to be a lot more.)

[andromeda331]

10 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, this show really ran out of steam and was rightly canceled; if they had so many more great case ideas, why didn't they use them then?  Scotty was the worst cop in the division (worse than Nick, even, yes -- dude arranged an extrajudicial execution), and he's the one they're looking to carry over into the new group?

I agree. He'd be the worse choice. With the show off the air I like to think he's in jail for that or the next time he tried have someone murdered or murdering himself.  

[Percysowner]

15 hours ago, Bastet said:

Yeah, this show really ran out of steam and was rightly canceled; if they had so many more great case ideas, why didn't they use them then?  Scotty was the worst cop in the division (worse than Nick, even, yes -- dude arranged an extrajudicial execution), and he's the one they're looking to carry over into the new group?

I think it partly ran out of steam due to costs. Licensing all the music had to be pretty expensive and you could tell in the later seasons. With a break of all these years, I think they could find good cases again.

Danny Pino is well known and has been on a lot of things, so bringing him back to the reboot makes a kind of sense. I didn't like his personal stories, at least near the end, the Elissa one in the early seasons was pretty good. My guess is that in the reboot, if it happens, Scottie would be more of the Stillman character, in charge of the unit, and bringing it into being a unit because of his experience in Philly. That would make him a secondary character, not the focus. Shows tend to want younger actors in the main roles and Scottie would a transition character fro the old show to the new one.

Basically, I think it could work, IF they get the music and if they get the kind of writing that they had in early seasons. They have had a rest period, so I think it could be pulled off.

[MarylandGirl]

9 hours ago, Percysowner said:

I think it partly ran out of steam due to costs. Licensing all the music had to be pretty expensive and you could tell in the later seasons. With a break of all these years, I think they could find good cases again.

Danny Pino is well known and has been on a lot of things, so bringing him back to the reboot makes a kind of sense. I didn't like his personal stories, at least near the end, the Elissa one in the early seasons was pretty good. My guess is that in the reboot, if it happens, Scottie would be more of the Stillman character, in charge of the unit, and bringing it into being a unit because of his experience in Philly. That would make him a secondary character, not the focus. Shows tend to want younger actors in the main roles and Scottie would a transition character fro the old show to the new one.

Basically, I think it could work, IF they get the music and if they get the kind of writing that they had in early seasons. They have had a rest period, so I think it could be pulled off.

Yes, this all makes a lot of sense. I agree that the early season personal stories for him were pretty good.

Maybe it could be sort of like how they brought Grissom and Sara back to consult on the reboot of CSI: Vegas, but then they didn't stay? Though...I stopped watching it after that. Or they could do that with Lilly, just have her featured for a few eps in the beginning, and have Scotty in a role like you mentioned.

[andromeda331]

8 hours ago, MarylandGirl said:

Yes, this all makes a lot of sense. I agree that the early season personal stories for him were pretty good.

Maybe it could be sort of like how they brought Grissom and Sara back to consult on the reboot of CSI: Vegas, but then they didn't stay? Though...I stopped watching it after that. Or they could do that with Lilly, just have her featured for a few eps in the beginning, and have Scotty in a role like you mentioned.

No Grissom and Sara didn't stay. They were just there for the first season. In the second season they brought back Catherine who's still there.

[Bastet]

Of course being old by TV standards means any original character integrated into the new crew will be used in a secondary, or even tertiary, role, and of course being old by TV standards means it will more likely be a man than a woman chosen for that role.  And Danny Pino is presumably the most popular actor of the original group today; I haven't specifically tracked anyone's careers, but I've come across his name more than the others'.  Scotty makes sense for how TV works.  My point within that reality is that any potential scenario of bringing in the original squad's worst cop as some sort of wise elder to the new squad is a problem even in a limited role, so if this winds up coming to fruition with Scotty involved, they'd have to do something unexpected to get me interested; with nothing to go on yet, I can't imagine buying him having changed, thus setting the right tone in that kind of role, and certainly wouldn't want to watch if he hadn't changed. 

Edited April 19 by Bastet

[GHScorpiosRule]

7 hours ago, Bastet said:

My point within that reality is that any potential scenario of bringing in the original squad's worst cop as some sort of wise elder to the new squad is a problem even in a limited role, so if this winds up coming to fruition with Scotty involved, they'd have to do something unexpected to get me interested; with nothing to go on yet, I can't imagine buying him having changed and setting the right tone. 

This right here. No way would this interest me if Scotty ends up commander.

Either way, Hollywood is so creatively bankrupt, all they can do is come up with revival of this, reboot of that, blah, blah, blah. And the way this show ended? 

HARD Pass from me regarding any reboot/revival. If I want to watch Cold Case, I'll watch the original.

[andromeda331]

16 hours ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

This right here. No way would this interest me if Scotty ends up commander.

Either way, Hollywood is so creatively bankrupt, all they can do is come up with revival of this, reboot of that, blah, blah, blah. And the way this show ended? 

HARD Pass from me regarding any reboot/revival. If I want to watch Cold Case, I'll watch the original.

I doubt they would do it. But it would be funny if they bring him because he's murdered the new team has to investigate who killed him.

[kathyk2]

On 11/6/2023 at 6:15 PM, Percysowner said:

I think one of the reasons this feels less like copagenda than other procedurals  is that the whole premise of the show is that the cops screwed up the first time. Oh, sure there were the occasional cases where the victim was believed to just be a missing person, but most of the cases were cold because the cops just missed things. It was also pretty realistic about what kind of victims get overlooked, poor people, marginalized people, and victims of powerful people.

Yes, I was sure that the cases would fall apart once a lawyer got involved and most of them would never have been solved it the murderer had just kept their mouth shut and not confessed, because there usually wasn't a lot of actual evidence left. I didn't mind the suspension of disbelief at the result because the final montages are so damned moving and so well done. Plus the show cared about the victims, not the murderers or how the cops diligently solved the case of a person with a picture on a white board. We saw the victims and their killers as fully rounded people. That doesn't happen in most police dramas.

Cold Case was different because the detectives didn't care if the victim was a good person. I watch true crime shows and often the cops will only investigate if the victim fits a certain profile. They have to be good looking smart and have a family who misses them before the cops care to solve their murder.

[Theli11]

I'd reckon it's less of a reboot but rather a spin off series. There's been enough time that has passed that they have a full new decade (2010 to 2024/5). I hope the cast is really good and I think Cold Case has a really great ensemble. I'll be honest though, Lilly would've made a lot more sense to come back considering where she ended, though I do love Danny Pino. I'd love to see how cases play out now though.