Eve's Marathon Diary: Sex And The City's Second Season Gets Meatier

[Primetimer]

Some of it works, some of it rubs our Marathon Diarist the wrong way.

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[xtwheeler]

Loved the recap, but please tell me you didn't tag a '90s Jon Bon Jovi as "not yet a star."

It was a MAJOR "thing" that he was cast.

[Quof]

"a pre-Alias Bradley Cooper, sporting his old hairline"

THANK you. I couldn't figure out what the difference was - did he get a nose job, new teeth? I knew there was some cosmetic surgery in there somewhere but couldn't put my finger on it.

[WendyCR72]

<whispers> I have said this before, but I liked Steve and like him and Miranda together.

Commence rotten tomatoes!

<Walks out>

[Blueeyedgirl]

I liked Steve in future seasons, but the Steve of Season 2 was not the right match for Miranda...the character evolved.

[Maherjunkie]

I did too Wendy.  I think he was smarter when we first met him.

[Princess Sparkle]

On 7/19/2016 at 10:53 PM, WendyCR72 said:

<whispers> I have said this before, but I liked Steve and like him and Miranda together.

Commence rotten tomatoes!

<Walks out>

I liked Steve and Miranda together too.  The only time I reaaaally didn't like them together was the second time around towards the end, when they made Steve some blithering man child who couldn't be pulled away from Saturday morning cartoons.  Which absolutely does not jibe with the Steve we first met, who was reading Hemingway behind the bar during his shift, and quite honestly, also doesn't jibe with a man who owns a successful bar.  That shift really did a disservice to both Steve and Miranda, since I think it would have been interesting for Miranda to be with someone who wasn't a white collar worker, but could still keep her on her toes.  

I also hated that they made Steve cheat in the first movie.  If there was one thing that was consistent over the course of the series, it's that Steve worshipped Miranda.  Wanting to take a break because their relationship was getting strained?  That I could see.  But cheating without talking to her about their problems first?  That I don't buy, and it was a cheap ploy to give Miranda a reason to say what she did to Big before the wedding.  And that in and of itself I had issues with, but I won't bring them up here...

[Rai]

I hate Steve. I have always hated Steve. I will always hate Steve. THERE, I SAID IT. :D

[AndySmith]

Like Carrie and Big, on paper Steve and Miranda don't make sense, but the chemistry between the actors made it work for me. And at least Miranda and Steve were nowhere near as toxic a couple as Carrie and Big. 

[Maherjunkie]

Anybody with Carrie is doomed to toxic.

[queenbee9b]

From other things about him that I've read about Chris Noth, I think the Sinatra thing is just him, he kind of thinks of himself and his close friends as part of that type of mold/crew/wannabe rat packers.

[katha]

On 21.7.2016 at 8:40 PM, AndySmith said:

Like Carrie and Big, on paper Steve and Miranda don't make sense, but the chemistry between the actors made it work for me. And at least Miranda and Steve were nowhere near as toxic a couple as Carrie and Big. 

Steve shouldn't have worked as a character, but somehow he did. It helped that the actors had chemistry, but for all the OTT fairytale aspects the show indulged in, it was nice that they acknowledged that things like class differences exist and that it could be an issue in relationships. Steve had a job and made an okay living, but Miranda's lifestyle was way beyond him and once they started a relationship they needed to deal with that reality and mostly did. I also liked when they later on brought that "perfect on paper" dude for Miranda and she knew that she should want him and the "perfect life" he offered, but still felt more comfortable with Steve. That rang emotionally true, mostly because the actors really sold that level of comfort and trust between Miranda and Steve, for all their social and personality differences.

Strangely, on rewatch Big and Carrie also get more interesting in their dysfunctionality? Yes, she's needy and dramatic and pushy and insecure and projects all her issues on him...but he does this withdrawn, stand-offish thing where in every conflict he can always fall back on "you're the crazy one" and stay superior and aloof. They really enabled some of each other's worst character traits, yet they also connected on some level and had great chemistry...so it's plausible that they fell back into that toxic mess again and again. There's also a class aspect here, I think, and it's even somewhat addressed. When Carrie compares herself and Natasha and how she'll never be as "classy"...so with the "right kind of parents, right kind of education, right kind of job, old money style" etc. And it's implied that at least subconsciously this is also Big's thinking, that he should marry that kind of woman and not someone like Carrie. But then he wrecks two marriages because he doesn't actually want that kind of "perfect on paper woman" and doesn't ever want to let go of Carrie either.

[Maherjunkie]

I think anyone would be withdrawn and standoffish when the other person does act in those ways.  Why he doesn't dump her (in real life anyway) is beyond me.

[katha]

33 minutes ago, Maherjunkie said:

I think anyone would be withdrawn and standoffish when the other person does act in those ways.  Why he doesn't dump her (in real life anyway) is beyond me.

See, I think he didn't dump her because he liked what was going on to some degree. He liked that he had all the power in the relationship and that Carrie obviously was more into him than he was into her and it gave him the perfect excuse when there was conflict: "I'm not responsible for anything, she's just being a typical hysterical woman, amirite!?!" I'm firmly in the camp that believes that Big was as responsible as Carrie for the toxicity of their relationship right from the start, how he behaved in the affair later on was just a logical extension of his earlier actions. Even when he married, he didn't really want to invest in those marriages, so had a history of cheating on his wives. He was a tool, frankly. But so were most of the characters of the show, to some degree, wasn't that the point? That they were all anti-heroes and not "good guys" that were easy to root for?

[Maherjunkie]

In the marriages yes, but she was such a nut from almost the beginning I can't trace anything to him.

[andromeda331]

4 hours ago, Maherjunkie said:

In the marriages yes, but she was such a nut from almost the beginning I can't trace anything to him.

She really was, wasn't she? Like stalking him with his mother and stalking his ex-wife.  

[Princess Sparkle]

On 8/7/2016 at 1:12 PM, katha said:

Strangely, on rewatch Big and Carrie also get more interesting in their dysfunctionality? Yes, she's needy and dramatic and pushy and insecure and projects all her issues on him...but he does this withdrawn, stand-offish thing where in every conflict he can always fall back on "you're the crazy one" and stay superior and aloof. They really enabled some of each other's worst character traits, yet they also connected on some level and had great chemistry...so it's plausible that they fell back into that toxic mess again and again. There's also a class aspect here, I think, and it's even somewhat addressed. When Carrie compares herself and Natasha and how she'll never be as "classy"...so with the "right kind of parents, right kind of education, right kind of job, old money style" etc. And it's implied that at least subconsciously this is also Big's thinking, that he should marry that kind of woman and not someone like Carrie. But then he wrecks two marriages because he doesn't actually want that kind of "perfect on paper woman" and doesn't ever want to let go of Carrie either.

I think you hit the nail on the head here, and this is why I always hated that they had Carrie and Big get together at the end of the series.  Honestly, it would've been so much better for the evolution of Carrie for her to realize "Hey - I know I'm drawn to this guy, the chemistry is out of this world, but he's never going to love me as much as I love him and we're toxic together.  He only likes the chase, and once he has me, it never works out"  She sort of got to that realization in this season, in La Douleur Exquise with "Did I really love Big, or was I addicted to the pain, the exquisite pain, of wanting someone so unattainable?", but clearly it didn't hold.  And even though I couldn't stand Carrie most of the time post-season 3, I CHEERED for her in the penultimate episode of the series when Big comes to talk to her right before she leaves for Paris, and she finally lets him have it and says:

Quote

Oh, it's never different! It's six years of never being different! This is it! I am done! Don't call me ever again! Forget you know my number! In fact, forget you know my name! And you can drive up this street all you want,  because I don't live here any more!

I thought "FINALLY!  Carrie figured their relationship out!", because that's an actual honest assessment of their relationship - no matter when they were together over the course of the series, they fell into the same pattern every time where he wanted her and would pursue her intensely when she wasn't available, and then when she became available and they were together, she wanted more than he was willing to give her.  And then the show undermined that completely by having them get together in the following episode.  Honestly, for as much as the show liked to pat their backs about being revolutionary, they went with the most cliched ending they could.  

Edited August 8, 2016 by Princess Sparkle
typo

[Maherjunkie]

During the affair he wanted her and after, so I don't see him as that withholding.

[Princess Sparkle]

But he only wanted her physically, he didn't want to deal with the trappings of an emotional relationship.  That is what I mean by "when they were together, she wanted more than he was willing to give her."  If he had wanted a relationship with her, he would've divorced Natasha, and then pursued Carrie.  He instead stayed with Natasha, lied to her, and started a physical relationship with Carrie - on a certain level, he was withholding from both of them.  He just wanted to have his cake and eat it too.    

I have always thought Big got off pretty easy when it came to the affair.  Not that Carrie holds no blame - of course she does, she participated in it as well - but she always bears so much of it when Big was the one that broke his wedding vows, Big was the one pursued Carrie incessantly, and Big was the one that brought the affair into (literally) his house.  And after all that, Carrie is the one who has to tell him "Uh, it's over."  

Edited August 8, 2016 by Princess Sparkle

[Maherjunkie]

Well at one point he was willing to divorce, albeit not in the beginning.  I do agree with the rest of your statement, but it was the one time I saw him as a douche canoe.

[Mu Shu]

On July 19, 2016 at 11:53 PM, WendyCR72 said:

<whispers> I have said this before, but I liked Steve and like him and Miranda together.

Commence rotten tomatoes!

<Walks out>

Nah, I liked Steve too.   I never fail to tear up when he shows up on the Brooklyn bridge in the first movie, and I hate both those fucking movies passionately.    Miranda could be a pill, and it was hard for Steve to deal with the  socioeconomic issues.   Not unrealistic at all, but they could have made him less defensive and cut out the skid mark bit.  

[Maharincess]

Steve was my favorite guy on the series. I don't understand all of the Steve hatred.  

[WendyCR72]

6 hours ago, Maharincess said:

Steve was my favorite guy on the series. I don't understand all of the Steve hatred.  

Party of two here!

[NutMeg]

Steve was my favorite boyfriend INITIALLY - I liked the opposites attracts way their budding relationship played out. But later Steve? Not so much, way to go with shaming your partner to become someone different that who you were initially attracted to. 

[Inquisitionist]

Yeah, they made Steve increasingly juvenile, IMO, and Miranda was the one who always had to compromise for him rather than there being a sense of true give-and-take.

Did anyone see the recent episode of Brooklyn Nine-Nine where Captain Holt (Andre Braugher) learns everything about SatC so that he can cozy up to a security guard they need to bamboozle?  One of his lines was something like "Wait, Miranda chooses Steve over BLAIR UNDERWOOD?"  Made me LOL.

[Bb78]

On 21/07/2016 at 4:23 PM, Princess Sparkle said:

I liked Steve and Miranda together too.  The only time I reaaaally didn't like them together was the second time around towards the end, when they made Steve some blithering man child who couldn't be pulled away from Saturday morning cartoons.  Which absolutely does not jibe with the Steve we first met, who was reading Hemingway behind the bar during his shift, and quite honestly, also doesn't jibe with a man who owns a successful bar.  That shift really did a disservice to both Steve and Miranda, since I think it would have been interesting for Miranda to be with someone who wasn't a white collar worker, but could still keep her on her toes.  

I also hated that they made Steve cheat in the first movie.  If there was one thing that was consistent over the course of the series, it's that Steve worshipped Miranda.  Wanting to take a break because their relationship was getting strained?  That I could see.  But cheating without talking to her about their problems first?  That I don't buy, and it was a cheap ploy to give Miranda a reason to say what she did to Big before the wedding.  And that in and of itself I had issues with, but I won't bring them up here...

Ibdudn' like how they dumped Steve down in later seasons. He was a big over grown baby. It was a cheap excuse for them to get rid of Steve. 

[Bb78]

On 07/08/2016 at 7:12 PM, katha said:

Steve shouldn't have worked as a character, but somehow he did. It helped that the actors had chemistry, but for all the OTT fairytale aspects the show indulged in, it was nice that they acknowledged that things like class differences exist and that it could be an issue in relationships. Steve had a job and made an okay living, but Miranda's lifestyle was way beyond him and once they started a relationship they needed to deal with that reality and mostly did. I also liked when they later on brought that "perfect on paper" dude for Miranda and she knew that she should want him and the "perfect life" he offered, but still felt more comfortable with Steve. That rang emotionally true, mostly because the actors really sold that level of comfort and trust between Miranda and Steve, for all their social and personality differences.

Strangely, on rewatch Big and Carrie also get more interesting in their dysfunctionality? Yes, she's needy and dramatic and pushy and insecure and projects all her issues on him...but he does this withdrawn, stand-offish thing where in every conflict he can always fall back on "you're the crazy one" and stay superior and aloof. They really enabled some of each other's worst character traits, yet they also connected on some level and had great chemistry...so it's plausible that they fell back into that toxic mess again and again. There's also a class aspect here, I think, and it's even somewhat addressed. When Carrie compares herself and Natasha and how she'll never be as "classy"...so with the "right kind of parents, right kind of education, right kind of job, old money style" etc. And it's implied that at least subconsciously this is also Big's thinking, that he should marry that kind of woman and not someone like Carrie. But then he wrecks two marriages because he doesn't actually want that kind of "perfect on paper woman" and doesn't ever want to let go of Carrie either.

Carrie should of picked up the vibes and legged it. Yes hes a gentleman yes he had good taste and yes he's generous but when it came to living with the guy he was boring. 

 

I think she was tired of moving with guys with not much to offer and Big seemed the perfect guy on paper but in reality chemistry was not enough to make the relationship last. 

[ChlcGirl]

I'm currently watching S2 On Demand while spring cleaning, and I have to say, I think it may be Carrie's finest season, clothes-wise.  By that I mean that she looked amazing without wearing all of the ridiculously expensive couture for a BRUNCH with the ladies.  Also?  Samantha looked great without looking like a cartoon.  Miranda was at least on the upswing.  Charlotte was always pretty flawless.

One glaring problem with the season???  The episode where the fashion designer died and everyone wore his spring collection to the funeral. Hideous clothes.  Just hideous.  And Sam's suit?  Absolute MOTB

 

[Maharincess]

I've been trying to figure this out for months and just can't so I'll ask..who the hell is Eve?! 

[AndySmith]

The person who wrote this series of articles on the series...

Edited April 9, 2017 by AndySmith

[Maharincess]

I know that but who is she?  

[AndySmith]

Eve Batey. You could always PM her and ask her ;)