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Josiah (Jed) Bartlet: Abu el Banat

BizBuzz

By BizBuzz
in The West Wing

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BizBuzz

BizBuzz

"You know, 15 years ago, we took a trip to Egypt, all five of us, saw the pyramids and Luxor, then headed up into the Sinai. We had a guide, a Bedouin man, who called me "Abu el Banat." Whenever we'd meet another Bedouin, he'd introduce me as "Abu el Banat." The Bedouin would laugh and laugh and then offer me a cup of tea. And I'd go and pay them for the tea, and they wouldn't let me. "Abu el Banat" means "father of daughters." They thought the tea was the least they could do."

Let's talk favorite quotes ... anyone?

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Zalyn

Zalyn

Oh, so many wonderful quotes by him... I'll avoid some of the obvious favorites.

"What will be the next thing that challenges us, Toby? That makes us go farther and work harder? Do you know that when smallpox was eradicated, it was considered the single greatest humanitarian achievement of this century? Surely we can do it again, as we did in the times when our eyes looked towards the heavens and, with outstretched fingers, we touched the face of God. Here's to absent friends and the ones that are here now. Cheers." ("The Crackpots and These Women", 01x05)

"You know what you are? You're the Charlie Brown of missile defense. The Pentagon is Lucy."  ("The Drop In", 02x12)

Pres. Bartlett showed me a side to Catholicism that is truly admirable and intellectual, and he also showed that a nerd could be President, at least on TV.

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AriAu

AriAu

(edited)

Had a Jed Bartlet moment last week. Met the mayor of a major Midwestern city at a reception and in response to a question, he said, "I know what you want me to say, but I think it should go on the north side, not the west side, because it will be safer for everyone and better for all businesses. I know it screws you over a little, but that is what I think is right."

Not quite as altruistic as saying he did it so that kids could afford milk, but the 1st thing I thought of was Jed with the dairy farmers in "The Shadow of Two Gunmen".

Missing TWOP for this quote!

Edited by AriAu
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AriAu

AriAu

Just got an e-mail from Martin Sheen endorsing Gov Quinn of Illinois-calls him a friend and everything. Can you get a powerful endorsement than from the last president I actually admired.

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FozzyBear

FozzyBear

Just got an e-mail from Martin Sheen endorsing Gov Quinn of Illinois-calls him a friend and everything. Can you get a powerful endorsement than from the last president I actually admired.

Hehe. In all seriousness, MS is one of the few celebrities with political opinions I give a shut about. He's been a long time activist.

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muffinsandbagels

muffinsandbagels

I love this bit from Let Bartlet Be Bartlet    :)

 

BARTLET
Can we get this Godforsaken event over with so I can get back to presiding
over a
civilization gone to hell in a handcart?

MRS. LANDINGHAM
Nice talk for a President.

BARTLET
Leave me alone.

They reach the second floor.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
You know what this is, don't you sir?

BARTLET
What what is?

MRS. LANDINGHAM
Your mood, sir.

BARTLET
There's nothing wrong with my mood.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
It's your diet.

BARTLET
Would you get off me with that?

MRS. LANDINGHAM
You're not getting enough roughage in your diet. You know I'm right about
that.

BARTLET
I know I'd like to beat you senseless with a head of cabbage. I know that
for damn sure.

MRS. LANDINGHAM
Once again, you display an immaturity about vegetables and I think is not
at all
Presidential.

 

And this from 20 Hours in America:

 

 

BARTLET

Josh and Toby?
Have they been sighted?

SAM
I talked to them a little ago, they're on there way.

BARTLET
300 IQ points between them-- they can't find their way home. I swear to God,
if Donna
wasn't there, they'd have to buy a house.

 

Hee!  :)

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BizBuzz

BizBuzz

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I just hope you all know that you will have to get in line behind me if his wife ever decides to leave him.

 

::giggle::

 

As good looking as he was when he was young, this man has aged very well, and I much prefer him with gray hair.  Yup. 

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Diane

Diane

Was that when he was hiding behind the super tall basketball player, or just before he passed out from mixing his meds? Hee.

It was when they wake him up to tell him Morris's plane has been shot down.

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marriedaniac

marriedaniac

(edited)

I have been reading and flashbacking to the old TWoP threads. Well, from 2004 onwards, anyway. Bless the internet and its archiving:

 

Martin Sheen:

http://web.archive.org/web/20140331094054/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/368322-st-martin-of-malibu-jed-bartletmartin-sheen/

 

The Medea/Jackass thread also:

http://web.archive.org/web/20140331094050/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/1786650-medea-and-jackass-jed-and-abbey-just-kiss-already/

 

 

Is anybody here who used to post on the TWoP forums?? e.g Gordon Shumway, Obsessheen, kittylin, ladyDonna, etc...? 

Edited by marriedaniac
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betsyboo

betsyboo

I have been reading and flashbacking to the old TWoP threads. Well, from 2004 onwards, anyway. Bless the internet and its archiving:

 

Martin Sheen:

http://web.archive.org/web/20140331094054/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/368322-st-martin-of-malibu-jed-bartletmartin-sheen/

 

The Medea/Jackass thread also:

http://web.archive.org/web/20140331094050/http://forums.televisionwithoutpity.com/topic/1786650-medea-and-jackass-jed-and-abbey-just-kiss-already/

 

 

Is anybody here who used to post on the TWoP forums?? e.g Gordon Shumway, Obsessheen, kittylin, ladyDonna, etc...? 

Me! Me! I fear I'm going to lose some time today to these threads.... LTG is here, too

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BW Manilowe

BW Manilowe

(edited)

You know, don't you, that Jed put his jackets on that way because Martin Sheen had a real life problem with 1 of his arms from birth & he had to put his jackets on that way because of it. It wasn't just an idiosyncratic thing they made up for the character of Jed.

Edited by BW Manilowe
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marriedaniac

marriedaniac

(edited)

Are you a mind reader or something? I was just thinking how I need a Coat Flip montage, and bam! Thank you for doing that.

 

The shot from Memorial Day (I think?) when he is wearing the bulletproof vest is about the fastest I've ever seen anyone put on a jacket.

 

It is missing at least one I can think of - the tuxedo jacket at the start of Dead Irish Writers.

Edited by marriedaniac
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Inquisitionist

Inquisitionist

(edited)

The Case Against Jed Bartlet

 

I agree with a lot of this starting with:

 

Bartlet sees the universe in terms of Bartlet and its unfairness to him. When his beloved secretary is killed in a car crash, he delivers a repulsive lecture to God, calling him a "feckless thug" for taking away someone Bartlet needs -- as if his own decisions, including one to permit assassination of a foreign official, had not brought death to many people who wanted to live at least as much as poor Mrs. Landingham.

 

Let the debating begin!

Edited by Inquisitionist
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Melancholy

Melancholy

(edited)

Thank for the article, Inquisitionist. I agreed and disagreed with it. Like, absolutely Jed Bartlet is a flawed character. I would even argue that Jed Bartlet is the rare character who ended up being more flawed than Aaron Sorkin intended....and that's actually part of why I love Jed so much and why he's among my favorite characters of all time. Usually, when I suspect that creator didn't intend a character having certain flaws but yet, flaws just crept out like toxic sludge, it really makes me hate the character because it comes out a mess of inconsistencies and rationalizations from other characters. Not with Jed- he's consistently smug, arrogant, and dishonest and it's a constant hurdle for him to achieve the pristine legacy and affection that he craves.

 

I also love John Hoynes too, and in some ways, Hoynes *was* more principled than Jed. Like on ethanol or Hoynes giving up credit on the bill to create Internet access for the rural poor. It was almost hilarious when Jed and CJ had to confront the reality that how Jed Bartlet chose to unprofessionally bully Hoynes in a Cabinet meeting could end up in The Washington Post where it would no longer be so adorable and righteous outside of the yes-man echo chamber of the West Wing. Even Toby had to admire how Hoynes was calculating his own run back in late S2, when Toby admitted that Hoynes was actually the only one of Jed and Leo focused on loyalty to the Democratic Party as opposed to one man. I LOVE Hoynes just calling Jed out for Jed offering him the vice-presidency and making him an accomplice in his MS-deception in the same speech. 

 

BARTLET: I told you because it's something you're gonna need to know. But also because I wanted to show that I trust you.

HOYNES: [slight edge to his voice] Oh, you do?

BARTLET: [unfazed] Yeah.

HOYNES: [leans forward] That's supposed to be me accepting the nomination Thursday night. But I suppose your trusting me is consolation prize enough.

 

If I recall, Aaron Sorkin or John Spencer speak at length about how dislikable Jed was there in the audio commentary for Bartlet for America. 

 

However, even then, I disagreed with the hyperbole of the article:

 

 

And smart or not, Bartlet is unbelievably smug. This is the kind of boss who returns from India with chess sets for his senior staff -- and then insists on beating each of them while lecturing on strategy.

 

Actually, yes, Jed lectured his staff on strategy and gave lectures on chess. However, there was a softer, more humble element to both of his games with Toby and Sam. He let his game with Toby go on longer than it should to keep hearing Toby's political advice, at the expense of showing off his brilliance. 

 

Toby: Then make this election about smart, and not... Make it about engaged, and not. Qualified, and not. Make it about a heavyweight. You're a heavyweight. And you've been holding me up for too many rounds.

Toby lays down his king on the board to retire. 

Pick your king up. We're not done playing yet.

 

Jed let Sam figure out the Taiwan strategy on his own, with just some gentle guidance. And then, Jed minimized his special snowflakeness by predicting that Sam would run for the presidency. 

 

 

He is the kind of social boor who invites a radio columnist to the White House, then tongue-lashes her publicly (making use of his show-off "erudition" all the while).

 

The real social boor was Dr. Jenna Jacobs who HADDA be the one person at a fancy shmancy radio cocktail reception in the White House who didn't stand when the President of the United States walked into the room. Dr. Jacobs was pointedly looking for attention and trying to make a protest, to smugly brag to her right-wing friends that she only stands for presidents who she respects. Jed picked up on that and didn't let her get away with disrespecting him, the Office of the Presidency, and everyone else in the room who exercised the humility to stand and follow protocols. That's what got Jed to single her out, but heck, while he was singling her out for her disrespect of protocols, he decided to also pick the broader issues fight of her flagrant disrespect and hatred of LGBTQ. That was awesome.

 

 

They're wrong. MS is a progressive and incurable disease of the central nervous system. It has the potential to cause not only fatigue and physical impairment but cognitive decline and severe depression. It's certainly possible that someone with MS could be a good president, but there's no question that such a person should not conceal the fact from the voters. From FDR's failing health and Yalta to Ronald Reagan's mental decline during his second term, concealed illness in the White House has done more harm to the Republic than the sex lives of all the presidents combined.

 

Hmm, I think there are plenty of historians who would argue that a clinically depressed Lincoln, crippled FDR, perennially in pain and drug addicted Kennedy were still better for the Republic than a lot of the alternatives. And I think the country intelligently comes to that conclusion in the Bartlet v. Ritchie voice. At least, Jed could only have MS some of the time; Ritchie is stupid all of the time.

 

Yes, ideally, a presidential candidate should disclose all health issues. It's a sin that Jed didn't disclose. However, I get why these presidential candidates didn't disclose their health issues. They thought that they were healthy and fit enough to do the job- but there is a pervasive stigma about disability that discriminates far more than tales of how powerful men had sex with their female underlings. For Jed, in particular, his MS was relapsing-remitting. He felt healthy most of the time and more than fit enough to be President. It was morally grey. I don't blame the country for being angry or even Republicans for investigating and seeking to censure the President. Jed totally earned his censure. However, I understand how Jed just entered the race as a dark horse to experience running and keep people honest but then, he started to win and he really had a shot at beating Hoynes for the nomination and he couldn't bring himself to tank what he'd worked for, his aspirations to be a great President, and his reputation and privacy around the company by disclosing the fact that maybe, sometime in the future, he could be very, very sick. 

 

 

Bartlet sees the universe in terms of Bartlet and its unfairness to him. When his beloved secretary is killed in a car crash, he delivers a repulsive lecture to God, calling him a "feckless thug" for taking away someone Bartlet needs -- as if his own decisions, including one to permit assassination of a foreign official, had not brought death to many people who wanted to live at least as much as poor Mrs. Landingham.

 

Bartlet's choice to assassinate Shareef, a terrorist kingpin deep in the Qumari government and royal family with active plans to do things like blow up the Golden Gate Bridge, could be justified. Although, Bartlet does have severely aggressive warlike instincts to do the DIS-proportional response because HIS doctor was killed in Syria or to consider going all out against the Frente in Colombia because he felt humiliated that they trapped and killed marines because they outsmarted him and his military advisers. Luckily for him, he gets reigned in by Leo, Fitz, and Nancy. 

 

However, in his grief and desperation, Jed attacked G-d for letting Mrs. Landingham die. Then, his mental spirit of Mrs. Landingham pointed out that very fallacy. "G-d- doesn't make cars crash and you know it. Stop using me as an excuse." 

Edited by Melancholy
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BW Manilowe

BW Manilowe

I finally broke down & am doing a month-long trial of Netflix. They still have TWW.

I’m also (finally, though I’m still only in S1) watching Grace and Frankie, the Netflix Original show with Martin, Sam Waterston, Jane Fonda, & Lily Tomlin where Martin & Jane & Sam & Lily are longtime married couples (around 40 years, according to the Pilot), the women are sort of rivals, & the men are law partners who (using the same “if I tell you something you won’t like in public, you’ll have to take the news well & not make a scene over it” tactic Leo tried—& failed—to use with Sam & CJ when he hired Ainsley Hayes to work at the White House) use a dinner double date involving the couples to tell their wives that they (the men) have been secretly in love with each other for 20 years, & each man wants a divorce from his wife so they can then get married to each other.

I like the show; I have no problems with subject matter in media I watch, listen to, or read even being remotely related to LGBTQ issues/themes. But I admit, in the 1 brief, really barely nothing, scene which included a short kiss between Martin & Sam’s new characters I saw it like Jack McCoy (from Law & Order) was kissing Jed Bartlet. As I watch the show more, I’m sure I’ll get used to any PDA’s between the characters as they happen. I thought my reaction was unexpected though.

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ProudMary

ProudMary

19 hours ago, BW Manilowe said:

I finally broke down & am doing a month-long trial of Netflix. They still have TWW.

I’m also (finally, though I’m still only in S1) watching Grace and Frankie, the Netflix Original show with Martin, Sam Waterston, Jane Fonda, & Lily Tomlin where Martin & Jane & Sam & Lily are longtime married couples (around 40 years, according to the Pilot), the women are sort of rivals, & the men are law partners who (using the same “if I tell you something you won’t like in public, you’ll have to take the news well & not make a scene over it” tactic Leo tried—& failed—to use with Sam & CJ when he hired Ainsley Hayes to work at the White House) use a dinner double date involving the couples to tell their wives that they (the men) have been secretly in love with each other for 20 years, & each man wants a divorce from his wife so they can then get married to each other.

I like the show; I have no problems with subject matter in media I watch, listen to, or read even being remotely related to LGBTQ issues/themes. But I admit, in the 1 brief, really barely nothing, scene which included a short kiss between Martin & Sam’s new characters I saw it like Jack McCoy (from Law & Order) was kissing Jed Bartlet. As I watch the show more, I’m sure I’ll get used to any PDA’s between the characters as they happen. I thought my reaction was unexpected though.

Not to get too deeply into this on Jed Bartlet's thread, and not to get too spoilery for a new viewer, but many of us over on the Grace and Frankie forum have discussed the fact that Martin Sheen and Sam Waterston have ZERO chemistry in any of the scenes in which they appear together.  This was a big problem especially in the early seasons of the show as the writers didn't give their characters (Robert and Sol) all that much interaction with the other characters.  Later on, they seemed to write more scenes involving Robert and Grace, Sol and Frankie, Grace and Sol (Hello Newsroom!) and at least one terrific scene between Robert and Frankie (Jed Bartlet and Debbie Fiderer, together again!)  They also seemed to write more scenes for both Robert and Sol to interact individually with their respective adult children.   Big improvement.

Hope to see you on the Grace and Frankie forum.

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PeterPirate

PeterPirate

Martin Sheen fans might want to check out The Missiles of October on Youtube.  Sheen plays Robert Kennedy and William Devane plays JFK.  It's been there for a while but you never know when a movie is going to be taken down.  I was lucky to find Zulu and watch it several times before it was removed. 

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BW Manilowe

BW Manilowe

1 hour ago, PeterPirate said:

Martin Sheen fans might want to check out The Missiles of October on Youtube.  Sheen plays Robert Kennedy and William Devane plays JFK.  It's been there for a while but you never know when a movie is going to be taken down. I was lucky to find Zulu and watch it several times before it was removed. 

You mean Hulu?

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