S02.E05: Confronted With Hate

[biakbiak]

I thought this episode illustrated that it is Jazz who likes having her mother present at a lot of these events as a safety net because she is fundamentally shy about meeting new people. I thought she was fantastic at the radio show. 

I liked that Jazz acknowledged her privliege of having been able to transition early and come from such a supportive family because that is not the case for most Trans people and so sometimes she can't relate to their struggles.

[Bastet]

She handled things very well on the radio show, and I loved the smile on her face when they were on the phone with Greg afterward and he said he'd underestimated her ability to deal with any confrontational callers and was very proud of her.

As someone who has always been happiest alone, yet is not a hermit and places tremendous value on a circle of close friends in addition to my family, I think they have to walk a fine line when encouraging Jazz to be more social.  She enjoyed and benefited from her group of childhood friends, so it would be helpful to reconnect where possible and pick up some new, particularly transgender, friends as well.  Her depression is undoubtedly a factor in how much time she spends alone.  But she does also enjoy hanging out in her room watching TV, so they can't push too far and act as if liking more alone time than the average teenage girl is a bad thing/push her to go do something all the time.

[maraleia]

I think Jazz is, because of her national platform and long-time TV appearances, very mature for her age intellectually and that may be why she doesn't relate to the kids in her high school and chooses to be alone. I'm glad she found a friend in the group she attended with Nicole. She also knows how to handle herself when haters confront her and that's because she has supportive parents, siblings and grandparents who will back her up. This, I believe, is one of the messages the show is trying to convey- that a strong support system is vital for transgender and gender non-conforming kids to survive and thrive. The calls to the house are scary. I believe its one of the people who didn't speak but attended the Liberty Counsel town hall who found out their phone number but he's disguising his voice and using a number blocker to evade detection. She also did a fabulous job on the radio. I loved when she was talking about how she wants better boobs but not porn star boobs. It was a little levity that was needed after that heavy conversation the group had with each other.

[Scarlett45]

I enjoyed seeing Jazz interact with Noel and the other kids/young people @ GenderBender. I see Jazz's concern though, she wants to be liked for herself, not because she's trans or despite of being trans. Although you can often find support with similarly situated people, it can feel so FORCED and as if that's all you have in common. 

[RealityCowgirl]

I may be projecting, and I clearly know nothing about Jazz beyond what is shown here. That said, I heard the familiar language of a fellow introvert, for whom time alone to recharge is not only normal but essential. It may not be all that is at play when she wants to withdraw, but it may be part of her reality - a perfectly healthy one.

Introverted does not equal shy. It's about what gives and drains energy. She can be who she is, interacting with all of these people in public settings, and still be an introvert. 

Also very telling: her comment to her mom about not arranging any more play dates. I'm not discounting the value of having a strong peer support system or discounting whatever challenges she may be having that is impacting her friendships. But the idea of wanting and needing a few good friends, by itself, is not abnormal. 

Edited July 8, 2016 by RealityCowgirl

[Fostersmom]

I need Momma Famewhore to just stop already. Why was half the damn show about her birthday? Oh, the horror! She turned 50! She's sooooo old. I loved the kids telling her she looked young. I'm sorry, she looks like ass half the time so it doesn't matter how young she looks. The ridiculousness of the 3 of them making cards and then "hiding" the evidence was so beyond stupid, I can't believe they even agreed to play along. Good for Ari for not agreeing to go along with the whole stupid thing and do the dance too. 

The GenderBender mixer was interesting. I do think that was kind of eyeopening for Jazz. When the other kids were introducing themselves and saying how they identified, her face was pretty telling. It almost seemed like Jazz was just so used to saying her same "I was born a boy, but have the mind of a girl" that she never really thought about those words in the context of others. I'm also not sure Jazz truly appreciates how easy her transition has been her whole life. Not only did she get to start at 3, her family has been super supportive, and obviously had high quality health insurance. 

[teevee4me]

I think those Gender Bender social activities are just odd. Jazz doesn't seem to fit in with them. Those kids there seemed off the charts in oddness.

[CousinAmy]

21 hours ago, maraleia said:

She also did a fabulous job on the radio. I loved when she was talking about how she wants better boobs but not porn star boobs. It was a little levity that was needed after that heavy conversation the group had with each other.

I'm so tired of her obsession with "boobs." Is that what defines a woman? I developed early and hated the teasing I got from elementary school on, but I never heard other girls talking so excitedly about wanting big breasts. 

[biakbiak]

12 minutes ago, CousinAmy said:

I'm so tired of her obsession with "boobs." Is that what defines a woman? I developed early and hated the teasing I got from elementary school on, but I never heard other girls talking so excitedly about wanting big breasts. 

All women are different, your experience shaped your views on it. I also developed early but I had plenty of friends who talked about wanting larger breasts.

[Pepper Mostly]

3 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

I need Momma Famewhore to just stop already. Why was half the damn show about her birthday? Oh, the horror! She turned 50! She's sooooo old. I loved the kids telling her she looked young. I'm sorry, she looks like ass half the time so it doesn't matter how young she looks. The ridiculousness of the 3 of them making cards and then "hiding" the evidence was so beyond stupid, I can't believe they even agreed to play along. Good for Ari for not agreeing to go along with the whole stupid thing and do the dance too. 

 

God, I know. She makes it all about her, all the time. she must be exhausting to live with. We just witnessed all the kids devoting themselves to her Mother's Day celebrations, and now her birthday. You just know she cries into her pillow all night if their expressions of devotion aren't up to her expectations. The kids must feel such pressure to top themselves every year.

[Fostersmom]

1 hour ago, biakbiak said:

All women are different, your experience shaped your views on it. I also developed early but I had plenty of friends who talked about wanting larger breasts.

Yep, I was wearing a bra in 4th grade and never was the girl wishing for bigger boobs, but I had a ton of friends, especially as they got to be teens who did. It doesn't help my mom is a 34 DD and I was always pretty certain I wan't going to lack in that department. But, it's not uncommon for girls to still be living the real life stage version of Judy Blume's Are you there God, it's me Margaret to this day…. We must, we must, we must increase our bust! LOL! Hell, I didn't understand half the book in the mid 80's when my friends and I kept reading it, but that part was holding true for a lot. 

I can see why Jazz might be kinda obsessed with her chest though. That's usually one marker that obviously distinguishes a girl from a boy, no matter the rest of the appearance. Obviously she's going to still have the hair, the clothes, the makeup, but even girls who are very flat chested often try to enhance nature in some way, even if it's just a padded bra. I don't know any girl who at 15 and had a completely flat chest who was thrilled with that. 

[CousinAmy]

5 hours ago, Fostersmom said:

Yep, I was wearing a bra in 4th grade and never was the girl wishing for bigger boobs, but I had a ton of friends, especially as they got to be teens who did. It doesn't help my mom is a 34 DD and I was always pretty certain I wan't going to lack in that department. But, it's not uncommon for girls to still be living the real life stage version of Judy Blume's Are you there God, it's me Margaret to this day…. We must, we must, we must increase our bust! LOL! Hell, I didn't understand half the book in the mid 80's when my friends and I kept reading it, but that part was holding true for a lot. 

I can see why Jazz might be kinda obsessed with her chest though. That's usually one marker that obviously distinguishes a girl from a boy, no matter the rest of the appearance. Obviously she's going to still have the hair, the clothes, the makeup, but even girls who are very flat chested often try to enhance nature in some way, even if it's just a padded bra. I don't know any girl who at 15 and had a completely flat chest who was thrilled with that. 

It just seems so superficial and shallow. She's supposed to be a spokesperson or role model for transgender girls/women but she's not showing any particular insight beyond the surface. 

Edited July 9, 2016 by CousinAmy
Extra word

[maraleia]

21 minutes ago, CousinAmy said:

It just seems so superficial and shallow. She's supposed to be a spokesperson or role model for transgender girls/women but she's not showing any particular insight beyond the surface. 

I respectfully disagree. If you've ever watched any of her speeches or Youtube videos you would see that she has amazing depth but she's also a 15-year-old girl. How were all of us at 15?

[Bastet]

She's a person, not a robot; she's going to have moments of superficiality, as well as pettiness, anger, petulance, arrogance, etc.  For a teenager, she's refreshingly low on such outbursts. 

If her speeches about being a transgender girl were about things like breasts and boys, I'd be annoyed.  Hell, if her social conversations were focused on such things, I'd be annoyed.  But they're not.  Jazz, like anyone, has shallow interests mixed in with the more important considerations in life, but I wouldn't remotely describe her as a shallow person.  Quite the opposite.

Edited July 9, 2016 by Bastet

[biakbiak]

Also, these are things she talks about with her family and peers, she isn't making speeches about it and she shouldn't have to be a perfect role model at all times. Though I don't actually think a 15 year old being concerned about how her breasts look is abnormal which is part of the show and sending the positive message that she in many ways she is a typical 15 year old and that can mean being shallow and moody.

In this episode alone she showed a lot of insight beyond her years at the radio show and even in talking heads about how at the Gender Bender she couldn't relate to some of their struggles.

Edited July 9, 2016 by biakbiak

[possibilities]

I think those Gender Bender social activities are just odd. Jazz doesn't seem to fit in with them. Those kids there seemed off the charts in oddness.

Those are human beings you're talking about.

[bref]

I haven't seen the episode yet, but my kid and a lot of her friends in HS and college were very gender fluid, they looked "weird" and probably seemed odd to other people, but thankfully I kept my mind open and saw what good kids they were, very accepting of others. And I was able to learn from them, too.

[honeydo7]

I realize this season's I Am Jazz episodes were filmed sometime ago, but don't understand why the Jennings's local police don't seem to be concerned about the phone threats the family has been receiving. If my family were receiving threats, I'd get an unlisted phone number, ditch the land line phone, schedule a family session with  personal security experts & have a high-tech security system installed at the house. These right-wing haters are very dangerous.

[rck]

Noelle strikes me as kind of an awkward kid, transgender or not. She reminds me of me at that age, actually, which might be why I find her hard to watch! At 14 (though I would have guessed several years older) she's still quite young to transition. It's too bad that she went through puberty already, but especially since she's still so young I bet she'll be quite pretty in a few years and pass well once she's learned to modify her voice a little bit. I hope for both Jazz's and Noelle's sake that it becomes a real friendship.

Showing both Jazz and trans people like Noelle does show how much different for people like Jazz who transitioned before puberty. I can tell people react a lot differently to Jazz than to people who don't pass.

I feel like if I were someone who transitioned as an adult I wouldn't want to even watch anything with Jazz just because it would be too painful thinking about what could have been if I had transitioned younger.

The only thing is that sometimes when talking about these things it seems like people don't acknowledge that puberty can be really difficult for cis people too. It was honestly traumatic for me, a cisgender woman, because I didn't feel like I was ready to be a woman. Developing breasts, periods, hips, hair all felt like my body betraying me. I starved myself to try to delay puberty, but it happened anyway. It's only now, a decade later, that I'm just starting to become okay in my own body. They talk in the show about the "living hell" of a trans person going through puberty of their biological sex, and while I'm sure my experience isn't exactly the same, I can totally relate to how they talk about it.

I didn't mean to make that so personal, but it just bothers me sometimes when people talk about trans issues and speak as if all cisgender are completely comfortable with their secondary sex characteristics.

The other thing that bothers me about the talk of the horrors of puberty is that yes, ideally a trans person won't have to experience the puberty of their biological sex, but the reality is that a lot of trans people will not be able to transition as minors and will have completed or have nearly completed puberty by the time they can transition. However, the way people talk about the importance of avoiding puberty could really make young trans people who can't transition feel hopeless, and that scares me. Poor Leelah Alcorn spent a lot of time in her suicide note talking about how since she couldn't transition at 16 she could never look the way she wanted to. It's never hopeless! I know it's a lot easier to pass before puberty, but many trans women do transition after puberty and still pass well eventually and lead happy lives. (And that's not even getting into the idea of the importance of passing--that's a whole other discussion.)

[Scarlett45]

41 minutes ago, rck said:

Noelle strikes me as kind of an awkward kid, transgender or not. She reminds me of me at that age, actually, which might be why I find her hard to watch! At 14 (though I would have guessed several years older) she's still quite young to transition. It's too bad that she went through puberty already, but especially since she's still so young I bet she'll be quite pretty in a few years and pass well once she's learned to modify her voice a little bit. I hope for both Jazz's and Noelle's sake that it becomes a real friendship.

Showing both Jazz and trans people like Noelle does show how much different for people like Jazz who transitioned before puberty. I can tell people react a lot differently to Jazz than to people who don't pass.

I feel like if I were someone who transitioned as an adult I wouldn't want to even watch anything with Jazz just because it would be too painful thinking about what could have been if I had transitioned younger.

The only thing is that sometimes when talking about these things it seems like people don't acknowledge that puberty can be really difficult for cis people too. It was honestly traumatic for me, a cisgender woman, because I didn't feel like I was ready to be a woman. Developing breasts, periods, hips, hair all felt like my body betraying me. I starved myself to try to delay puberty, but it happened anyway. It's only now, a decade later, that I'm just starting to become okay in my own body. They talk in the show about the "living hell" of a trans person going through puberty of their biological sex, and while I'm sure my experience isn't exactly the same, I can totally relate to how they talk about it.

I didn't mean to make that so personal, but it just bothers me sometimes when people talk about trans issues and speak as if all cisgender are completely comfortable with their secondary sex characteristics.

The other thing that bothers me about the talk of the horrors of puberty is that yes, ideally a trans person won't have to experience the puberty of their biological sex, but the reality is that a lot of trans people will not be able to transition as minors and will have completed or have nearly completed puberty by the time they can transition. However, the way people talk about the importance of avoiding puberty could really make young trans people who can't transition feel hopeless, and that scares me. Poor Leelah Alcorn spent a lot of time in her suicide note talking about how since she couldn't transition at 16 she could never look the way she wanted to. It's never hopeless! I know it's a lot easier to pass before puberty, but many trans women do transition after puberty and still pass well eventually and lead happy lives. (And that's not even getting into the idea of the importance of passing--that's a whole other discussion.)

I'm so terribly sorry you felt that way. 

Puberty is a hell hole. It hurts, it sucks and I would never want to go through it again. 

[okerry]

14 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I'm so terribly sorry you felt that way. 

Puberty is a hell hole. It hurts, it sucks and I would never want to go through it again. 

I'm so sorry that anyone would feel this way about growing up. Puberty is a normal part of life for any living mammal, both human and animal. It's supposed to help you begin your life, not end it. Adults are needed to both continue our species and provide support and culture for all. Children cannot do that. Without puberty, there are no adults - only children.

I would hope that anyone who honestly feels that puberty is a "hell hole" can get some support from experts who can help them cope with it. Whether cis or trans, puberty is normal and *can* be managed - even celebrated - believe it or not.

[Scarlett45]

22 minutes ago, okerry said:

I'm so sorry that anyone would feel this way about growing up. Puberty is a normal part of life for any living mammal, both human and animal. It's supposed to help you begin your life, not end it. Adults are needed to both continue our species and provide support and culture for all. Children cannot do that. Without puberty, there are no adults - only children.

I would hope that anyone who honestly feels that puberty is a "hell hole" can get some support from experts who can help them cope with it. Whether cis or trans, puberty is normal and *can* be managed - even celebrated - believe it or not.

I think you misunderstood my post. I don't wish I had never gone through puberty, or didn't want to grow up, I was NEVER suicidal or depressed about it- but the actual process for a lot of people especially those who are female IS a hell hole. The sudden growth spurts (your clothes don't fit, your shoes don't fit, your bras don't fit right, constantly having to go back to the store and go shopping), the possibly painful/ heavy menstrual cycles (which yes can be managed but often you're suffering a while before whatever management works) with headaches, cramps, bloating, knowing that now there are more limitations put on your life and behavior because we live in a world where women are more likely to experience sexual violence than men, women make less money etc. Yes those couple of years are just HELLISH for many people. Just like for many menopause is HELLISH, they might enjoy getting older/not having to worry about pregnancy but the physical process can be a PITA. Just a PITA. 

[rck]

Yes, normal parts of life can sometimes be unpleasant.

[TwirlyGirly]

5 hours ago, Scarlett45 said:

I think you misunderstood my post. I don't wish I had never gone through puberty, or didn't want to grow up, I was NEVER suicidal or depressed about it- but the actual process for a lot of people especially those who are female IS a hell hole. The sudden growth spurts (your clothes don't fit, your shoes don't fit, your bras don't fit right, constantly having to go back to the store and go shopping), the possibly painful/ heavy menstrual cycles (which yes can be managed but often you're suffering a while before whatever management works) with headaches, cramps, bloating, knowing that now there are more limitations put on your life and behavior because we live in a world where women are more likely to experience sexual violence than men, women make less money etc. Yes those couple of years are just HELLISH for many people. Just like for many menopause is HELLISH, they might enjoy getting older/not having to worry about pregnancy but the physical process can be a PITA. Just a PITA. 

Or,  your hormones can go completely banshee nuts, which is what happened to my daughter. She was fine for roughly the first year after she began her cycle. But a month after she started 7th grade, weird things began happening. For example, she literally DID NOT SLEEP for 5 nights straight. She sat up in bed, rocking and crying "I'm scared....I'm scared...." (anxiety OFF THE CHARTS).  She was nauseous, had a fever, and felt like she was coming down with something. I had NO idea what the problem was, and was going to take her to the doctor, when just as suddenly as it all began, it stopped and she was back to normal.

Until three weeks later, and BOOM! Back to the crazy.

It wasn't until it happened the third month in a row I started to put all her symptoms together and asked her about her cycle, and whether her symptoms were occurring in the week prior to her period starting, and ending as soon as her period began. She thought about it a minute, and finally said "Yes....I think so." (She's always been kind of private about that sort of thing - it's not something we'd casually chat about as a rule).

VOILA!

Once I figured out all her symptoms coincided with her cycle, I did a bit of research and realized she has PMDD (Pre Menstrual Dysphoric Disorder). She had all the symptoms except one. Trip to the doctor, a prescription for birth control pills, and she's been fine every since.

The point being (and I DO have one!) is that girls vary in how much they are affected by puberty, and as you mentioned, women with menopause. I had every single symptom of Post Menopausal Syndrome except one - the most common, of course - hot flashes. Never had a single one! I found that women who had sailed right through menopause with no problems whatsoever had a hard time understanding how seriously I was being affected, and often came across to me like "Get over it! It's all in your head!" which I think is an attitude girls who are severely affected by fluctuating hormones during puberty also have to deal with, especially if they have a mother or sisters who didn't have a lot of issues.

Personally, I think science is just at the tip of the iceberg in research into discovering just how much our hormones affect our bodies and minds.

I don't know why Jazz, who is receiving hormones "artificially" (in that her body isn't producing them naturally) wouldn't be just as likely to experience issues (both physical and psychological/emotional) like any other girl.

Sure, there are positives to both puberty and menopause. But for those in the throes of experiencing all of the negatives, it can be difficult to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Edited July 15, 2016 by TwirlyGirly

[Caracoa1]

I believe as soon as she is 18 she will be going in for all kinds of surgeries.  Only thing is she better start showing her father some more respect if she expects him to cover the costs.  She is very blessed to have a loving supportive family.

[Pachengala]

On July 8, 2016 at 10:31 AM, CousinAmy said:

I'm so tired of her obsession with "boobs." Is that what defines a woman? I developed early and hated the teasing I got from elementary school on, but I never heard other girls talking so excitedly about wanting big breasts. 

Man, I'd just be happy if she'd stop referring to them as 'boobs.' When did this become the linguistic standard for breasts?

[Jordan27]

Boobs has been the common term for them for more than two decades.  Where have you been?

[maraleia]

2 hours ago, Jordan27 said:

Boobs has been the common term for them for more than two decades.  Where have you been?

Absolutely and if you are a bisexual woman or lesbian its more fun to call them boobs because both people in the relationship have them. It's a term of endearment.