S07.E04: Hit and Run, Run, Run

[kitmerlot1213]

I know I would definitely like a timeline to how long Spencer and Toby and  Caleb and Hanna have been broken up, how long after that did Hanna meet Jordan and become engaged and when exactly did the magical nights in Madrid and DC happen because the way Spencer and Caleb talk, one would think they'd been together for years instead of the weeks it actually is.  

[WhosThatGirl]

2 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I know I would definitely like a timeline to how long Spencer and Toby and  Caleb and Hanna have been broken up, how long after that did Hanna meet Jordan and become engaged and when exactly did the magical nights in Madrid and DC happen because the way Spencer and Caleb talk, one would think they'd been together for years instead of the weeks it actually is.  

And the magical nights where there were feelings and almost kisses and talks. These magical nights where nothing happened really.

[mac123x]

4 hours ago, kitmerlot1213 said:

I know I would definitely like a timeline to how long Spencer and Toby and  Caleb and Hanna have been broken up, how long after that did Hanna meet Jordan and become engaged and when exactly did the magical nights in Madrid and DC happen because the way Spencer and Caleb talk, one would think they'd been together for years instead of the weeks it actually is.  

Something along the lines of:

Year 0 - end of 6.10 where everyone drives off to college

Year 2: Spencer is a sophomore in college, has a pregnancy scare and (probably pretty soon after) dumped Toby.  Hanna is working her shit job.  Caleb ditches her when she doesn't go to Europe with him

Year 2-3  Spencer is in Spain over the summer after her sophomore year - magical night (tm) in Madrid.

Year 3:  Spencer is a junior in college, Caleb moves to DC to do... something?  They start hanging out and have more magical nights (tm)

Year 5:  Charlotte dies.

[mac123x]

Listening to the Bro's podcast, they just said that the dude Spencer almost hooked up with is a cop because of course he is.  I rolled my eyes out the back of my head.

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, Jack Shaftoe said:

As far as I remember, she went to college but somehow long before graduating she was able to already have a career that involved working such long hours and going to so many stupid parties that Caleb decided to leave her. Sure, that makes no sense but since when has this stopped these writers.

Yeah, I guess maybe they had Hannah drop out of college to start working for that designer. I don't think they said how.

It's kind of silly, when they could easily have just had Hannah say she was just moving to NY to work and not go to college to begin with. They knew when they wrote them all going off to college that they were going to have Hannah already working in fashion. It's also dumb because I don't see some big designer hiring an assistant that hadn't been to college when there were probably hundreds of girls with degrees will to do the same grunt work for the same crappy (I'm assuming) pay. I can kind of let that slide because it's TV, but it all should have been explained better.

But the night in Madrid must have been after the break up, because isn't that when Caleb went to Europe? Hannah said she couldn't go so he took off on his own?

[DigitalCount]

14 hours ago, RHJunkie said:

I don't hate Spencer either but I do lack sympathy for her when I see her in troubled romantic relationships because of this exact reason. She has created a pattern of developing feelings/attractions to the people who are already in her life by means of those closest to her. I think she has some serious daddy issues. I feel Spencer looks at relationships around her and doesn't just think 'I want something like that'...she actually wants exactly what she sees. That's not an excuse for what Hannah did but it seems like poetic justice that Spencer got a taste of her own medicine. In high school you may be young and naive enough to believe you're in love with some guy you just met, you may choose a guy that you know isn't good for you but are hopeful enough to think you can change him. You may make a slew of stupid decisions when it comes to guys but engaging with men who are in relationships with your family or friends - that isn't a stupid high school decision. That's just a stupid decision and major betrayal. Spencer doesn't get a pass for that.

Just so I understand:

We're not giving Spencer a pass for a) being 14 and b) "going after" a single guy? So if I'm getting this right, Spencer was in the wrong for pursuing grown men who were already engaged while she was a child. Spencer was in the wrong for assuming that Hanna doesn't have some sort of right of first refusal on Caleb's singlehood, and she never should have allowed herself to catch feelings for a person Hanna hasn't dated in years. Because it is Hanna's choice who Caleb dates after her and how he chooses to move on.

Is that a good summary of the situation as it stands?

[RHJunkie]

14 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

Just so I understand:

We're not giving Spencer a pass for a) being 14 and b) "going after" a single guy? So if I'm getting this right, Spencer was in the wrong for pursuing grown men who were already engaged while she was a child. Spencer was in the wrong for assuming that Hanna doesn't have some sort of right of first refusal on Caleb's singlehood, and she never should have allowed herself to catch feelings for a person Hanna hasn't dated in years. Because it is Hanna's choice who Caleb dates after her and how he chooses to move on.

Is that a good summary of the situation as it stands?

Well I don't know about 'we'. I spoke for myself as in 'I'. My opinion of Spencer as it relates to her relationship is not isolating my opinion of her based on what she did when she was 14 but rather the pattern she has developed in terms of the men she chooses to entertain as love interests. If I thought she was mean-spirited and going out of her way to actually hurt the people around her then I wouldn't be shy to say I hate her character. As I said, I think there are deeper issues that influence her romantic decisions. I don't see personal issues as reasonable excuses for bad or stupid behaviour (similarly why I don't at all like the relationship between Ezra and Aria and I really wish his character would just die because that's seems to be about the only way that this show doesn't continually romanticize a relationship that is based on an older man in a position of trust and power continuing a relationship with a student). Those issues are why I'm not judging Spencer's character as a whole but instead believe (and can freely do express that opinion) that her character's flaw is her judgment in the romance department - or are we supposed to pretend that none of these characters have flaws? I perceived Spencer's romance issues to be a layer of depth to her personality that brings some balance to an otherwise incredibly smart, well-spoken and rational young woman who in many ways is still the same person she was back when she was 14 years old. 

But please don't project a summarization of my opinion as assumptions of what I do mean based on what I didn't say, rather than what I actually did say. I said no where that Hannah has some right or ownership over Caleb. And again, this isn't based on isolated incidents but the pattern that's presented int he big picture. Sure I could have talked about Hannah's flaws and what she did wrong in this particular situation. Sure I could talk about how annoying I find Aria anytime she's breathing the same air as Ezra and talking about him. Sure I could complain about how Emily is the most well balanced character on the show and I hate that they treat her character developing moments as after thoughts rather than use them as actual storylines. I could talk about a lot of other things but I didn't because I responded to a post about SPENCER. If you want to know where I stand on any given situation with all of the people involved, ask me about all of those people, don't assume my position just because I was responding in kind to a post that was specific to just one of those characters. 

[DigitalCount]

If Hanna does not have ownership of Caleb, then what makes Caleb a data point in this graph you're constructing of Spencer's "pattern"? Would you care to list the people you think adhere to this troubling trend you've mentioned and why they demonstrate something bad about Spencer, rather than the alternative of being men who prey on teenage girls, as Ezra did with Aria and Alison? You've used a lot of general terms here to describe an overall trend. What are the specifics that support your reading of the trend or the assertion that the trend even exists?

Edited July 16, 2016 by DigitalCount

[Cranberry]

The Spencer/Caleb/Hanna triangle discussion is veering far from the topic of this episode, so please continue in the Characters and Relationships thread. Also, while no one has crossed the line, the last few posts have been more confrontational in tone. Please remember to stay polite and respectful of other people's opinions. Thanks, everyone!

[WhosThatGirl]

I really wish that the show wasn't so dead set on having Aria and Ezra end up together as these past couple episodes really show how awesome she is when he isn't around. She actually helps with the mystery and plans and dose the get distracted by jukebox songs and rush to his side. The show knows that that it does this, right? It's also not a new thing with this relationship, as it happened when Aria wasn't dating Ezra she was helping out on plans more as well. 

I'm finished talking about the Hanna/Caleb/Spencer drama. Like I've said, it was a dumb move. It may have been able to work but the execution was terrible and made the show ruin three of the best characters in one fall swoop. I do feel for the people who genuinely wanted a Spaeb romance (if I'm being honest I was ambivalent towards the whole thing until I saw what they were doing and I then was all nope) because they probably feel cheated and don't understand why the show did it to begin with and I feel for those people. But they have these two doing dramatic scenes confessing their love and I just don't get it. But I can't talk about it anymore. 

Mona is my favorite character on the show right now. She gets things done and she can figure out when someone is wearing a fake diamond in 4 seconds and right now, as much as I loved the friendships with the four girls-pre Alis return from not dead anymore when she came back, everything got ruined-I think I just want the Hanna/Mona friendship for now.

[Mabinogia]

I would watch the Further Adventures of Mona and Hanna. I am starting to prefer non-liar pairings more than the liars together, which saddens me, since their friendship has been the only thing making this show watchable. Now it is Mona being the only thing making this show watchable. But Emily never did much for me, and Aria spends most of her time riding Little Fitz, and I loved Spencer and Hanna together but the show crapped all over that, so Mona is all I have left.

[WhosThatGirl]

I get that Spencer is angry but rewatching the episode now and wow her behavior was bad when at the start of the episode during the grave digging when Aria kept being awesome and making sense about going to the police, Spencer was shouting that they have no truth because "Hanna doesn't know the right pedal from the left!" Like whoa. Seriously. Really want to punch her. 

Edited July 17, 2016 by WhosThatGirl

[Lii]

I didn't realize how much the stupidity of this episode irritated me until I found myself on a huge tangential rant about it in a Shokugeki no Soma 2 thread on an anime site. Um... yeah. PLL PTSD, the struggle is real.

[luvly]

19 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I get that Spencer is angry but rewatching the episode now and wow her behavior was bad when at the start of the episode during the grave digging when Aria kept being awesome and making sense about going to the police, Spencer was shouting that they have no truth because "Hanna doesn't know the right pedal from the left!" Like whoa. Seriously. Really want to punch her. 

That's what actually happened, though. Aria says they should tell the truth and Spencer says, "Yeah, what truth is that? The one where Hanna doesn't know the right pedal from the left?", indicating that it sounds stupid and made up even though it's the truth. Hanna confirms it later when she's talking to Mona and says, "Spencer was right. There was time to stop if I hadn't gotten the pedals mixed up. I keep telling myself that it was an accident. A horrible accident but... When I saw Rollins... I just... I remember being in a cold, dark room. So was I confused or...Was I the least confused I've ever been in my life?" It wasn't just an empty sarcastic retort;  if even Hanna is doubting her motives, then the police definitely would. 

[Peanut6711]

51 minutes ago, luvly said:

 It wasn't just an empty sarcastic retort;  if even Hanna is doubting her motives, then the police definitely would. 

I know the Rosewood PD is dumb and dense on top of being corrupt, but it sounds even more nonsensical that Hannah and cohorts were chasing him into the woods where he would have had to get out of his car for Hannah to gas it and run him down on purpose all the while that Allie was running around in a hospital gown. Granted, I'm sure Tanner could pull off such a speculation with a straight face but with Toby looking into Rollins and Spencer's parents being lawyers, surely they didn't think any kind of vehicular manslaughter charge would stick. Sadly, these girls just get dumber instead of wiser with each "mystery" they encounter. 

[DigitalCount]

Actually, to be fair, Hanna could probably get charged with murder on the basis of her testimony, if some magical recording device were to have picked up what she said to Mona. Neither premeditation nor malice aforethought really require you to sit in a hotel room with dim lighting and a slice of graph paper charting out your every move from point A to point B. Both can happen in a very short amount of time indeed; all that's generally required is to have enough time to consider and appreciate the wrongfulness of one's actions and to decide to act anyway. What Hanna described could be defined by those terms; on the other hand, there is an argument to be made for sudden heat overtaking her due to her treatment at Wrick's* hands, bumping down the charge to manslaughter. If what she told Mona is a faithful representation of what happened rather than just her guilt overriding her better judgment, the writers may have inadvertently made Hanna a murderer, putting Hanna and Mona in a class of their own among the Liars.

*calling him Wrick instead of Elliott, because as we now know, the latter isn't actually his name

[KaveDweller]

4 hours ago, luvly said:

That's what actually happened, though. Aria says they should tell the truth and Spencer says, "Yeah, what truth is that? The one where Hanna doesn't know the right pedal from the left?", indicating that it sounds stupid and made up even though it's the truth. Hanna confirms it later when she's talking to Mona and says, "Spencer was right. There was time to stop if I hadn't gotten the pedals mixed up. I keep telling myself that it was an accident. A horrible accident but... When I saw Rollins... I just... I remember being in a cold, dark room. So was I confused or...Was I the least confused I've ever been in my life?" It wasn't just an empty sarcastic retort;  if even Hanna is doubting her motives, then the police definitely would. 

The police don't know about Hannah being kidnapped though, right? So they wouldn't have reason to suspect any motive. Although, it's Rosewood, so who knows.

Unless Hannah or Spencer testified that she got the pedals mixed up, would they even be able to tell? From watching I didn't even realize that had happened, I thought she hit the breaks and there just wasn't time to stop.

[Perfect Xero]

You have to remember that in Rosewood a man who abuses his position of authority to have a sexual/romantic relationship with a vulnerable woman is, basically, a town hero. As far as the Rosewood PD would be concerned Rollins was doing absolutely nothing wrong by drugging and abducting his wife to get revenge for her mental patient sister who he was also dating. The chart that he filled out clearly said that everything was on the up and up, so he must've had a good reason!

Meanwhile you've got these 4 girls who have a history of causing trouble for the town by being stalked, framed, and kidnapped driving above the speed limit in a car that clearly had multiple shovels in it! They'd have been executed within the month.

[mac123x]

20 hours ago, DigitalCount said:

*calling him Wrick instead of Elliott, because as we now know, the latter isn't actually his name

What are we going to do now that we know his name is really Archer?  Presuming that is his actual name and isn't another assumed identity.  Warcher?  Awrcher?

[Chairperson Meow]

3 hours ago, mac123x said:

What are we going to do now that we know his name is really Archer?  Presuming that is his actual name and isn't another assumed identity.  Warcher?  Awrcher?

Call him NeverWren?  Wracher?   Farcher-  covering Far Fetched and Archer?   Or Blah Blah?

[Perfect Xero]

I refuse to call Rollins Archer because that name should only be associated with Sterling, Mallory, and Abbiejean.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

On 7/12/2016 at 7:18 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

To be fair you guys your questions are a "moo"-TM Joey of Friends- point as the writers hardly, if ever put thought into the show.

Ha, I say this more often than I should. "It's like a cow's opinion. It's moo."

On 7/13/2016 at 0:14 AM, SadieT said:

Okay,  I can get on board with a person having a shovel in their car for snow emergencies. But 4? Now that’s just a waste of valuable trunk space. 

I'm going to blame the four shovels on Lucas being super shady since they were driving his car!

On 7/13/2016 at 7:28 AM, kitmerlot1213 said:

I LOVE THIS!!  Not only was the night they were drinking together in Madrid the most magical night ever, but apparently, all the time Spencer and Caleb hung out together in DC was also the best moments of their lives.  Seriously, the writers need to dial back on "Spencer and Caleb have this intense connection" drama because it's just not believable and it's extremely forced and makes both parties involved look like 12 year old girls with their first crush.

This drove me crazy too. The most magical night ever in Madrid was followed by one of the best nights ever!

On 7/14/2016 at 3:17 AM, Jack Shaftoe said:

Yes, not even Aria and Ezra talk like that about their precious relationship.

Hey, who needs to talk about their preciously creepy and inappropriate relationship when they can just wear paper bags on their heads?

On 7/15/2016 at 4:03 PM, KaveDweller said:

But the night in Madrid must have been after the break up, because isn't that when Caleb went to Europe? Hannah said she couldn't go so he took off on his own?

Yes, Caleb and Hanna broke up and then Caleb went to Europe. While he was there, he saw Spencer in Madrid. It was a magical night.

I loathe this neverending Hanna/Caleb/Spencer triangle but the one good thing about it is that even though Spencer and Hanna are in a really weird place, they are still friends who don't want to give up their friendship. Hanna apologized to Spencer who told her that she still needed to be mad at her for a little bit, which is understandable because she's hurt and upset. But despite what's going on with them via Caleb, they are still in this Wrollins murder coverup together. Spencer might still be mad at Hanna but she is not going to let Hanna go to jail for what happened.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Possibly my favorite moment in this entire episode was when the girls asked Jenna why she was staying at the Radley and she said, "Oh, didn't you hear? My house burned down." HA!