Greenleaf - General Discussion

[Happytobehere]

6 hours ago, OoogleEyes said:

You just know he's going after her daughter. Soaps!

That was my thought when we were subjected to the daughter's "singing" while the camera pans to Mack.

[Raja]

I never heard of the show but a recommendation to pre order the soundtrack just showed up on my Amazon account. Just scrolling through my on demand menu besides a  OWN drama being in a strange location I had to get through 35, make that 70 counting the HD extras to get to the first episode. They surely are not making it easy to catch up.

[jhlipton]

1 hour ago, Raja said:

 They surely are not making it easy to catch up.

Try scrolling backwards.

Surprisingly, full episodes are not on Hulu or the Greenleaf web-page.

[Raja]

My cable system doesn't give the backwards option. I have to get through about 5 pages to get to the first episode. While the pilot felt  pilled on I guess I will come back and try to catch up before entering the show thread to avoid spoilers.

[sugarbaker design]

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I don't think she knows. What the show could have done, to be less predictable, is to make it so Kevin didn't know and to watch it start becoming apparent. 

I may be wrong, but I got the impression that Kevin's attraction to the guy in the first couple of episodes (the guy who was leasing some space?) was Kevin's first same-sex attraction.  It simultaneously excited and terrified him.

[atiyah9369]

It would be extra soapy and Oprahish if Grace "Gigi" was really Mavis and the Bishops child. We see they were "friendly" before he married the first lady.

[Dee]

What's the birth order of the Greenleaf siblings?

[wanderingstar]

This season had better end with a who-shot-Uncle-Mac cliffhanger. That man makes my skin crawl. 

I wonder what's up with Lady Mae's father and why she hates him so much.

Next week looks good.

[Raja]

On 7/15/2016 at 0:13 AM, lucindabelle said:

 I had to crack up at all the little he's gay signals they inserted early on like let's cuddle and watch the bachelor and not really being in the mood and then on my karaoke bar! But I was surprised she was so Ok with gay choir director just assuming is church would be against it..

 

i too too found the "now I'm jealous and youre mine" surprising, more about ego than love but she seemed fine with it and I'm all for happy endings. Though I certainly hope the "side piece" sues for sexual harassment becuase she did in fact get fired because of that. Not cool.

 

gotta say the church looks like fun. I cannot even imagine being in an burch of 4000.

We are really not getting a picture of where this church stands on the social/political spectrum.  They have piled up so much from the prodigal eldest daughter being a single mother but coming back Aretha Franklin style to preach before walking out to the baby daughter going into porn the Bishop's empire will be one in a long line as his crowd has a book to question him against as qualifications for their leader that then Lucious Lyons fans over at the Empire doesn't.  I am guessing  her cousin and the others are kids of the church leadership are the only ones who know about the granddaughters drug usage.

 

Is there any honest leader beyond the facilities manger who didn't know he was Gigi's baby daddy? I certainly see a Jessica Hahn story going with the side piece of the wayward son.

Having visited a couple of the mega churches The production problem does seem budget wise a bunch of extras being too costly and churches balking at the show content not licensing scenes of their congregation for filler scenes, I see a church of a few hundred from the empty choir loft to the shots of the congregation. I keep saying some other money laundering scheme must be going on because I am not seeing Bishop  drawing the Osteen Crefalo Dollar crowd to get that jet .

[Raja]

I still remember Uncle Mac going from the cop on Baywatch to a hero at the start of LA's Rodney King riots

[TVForever]

Yikes. I'm loving this show, but it's getting awfully dark. 

[Arcadiasw]

The show is building up to an interesting season finale with all the subplots going on. I guess Lady Mae sees her gambling father as an embarrassment. I don't know if she, Mac and Mavis have tried helping him and he doesn't want it but I assume there's more to this family drama than Dad's gambling habit.

 

I wonder how much does the average member of the church know about the Greenleaf family drama. The staff can't be keeping their lips sealed to ALL things they see in the church offices. 

 

Mac.....oh dude. That ending. Still, that girl knows what she's doing and he knows as well. Mac is slime but that's what you expect of the clean up guy and he got way too much on his plate. James better hope if Mac goes down, Mac doesn't pull him and his whole family with him. 

 

I know I shouldn't have but I cracked a smile at James' "What?" when Lady Mae gave him the side eye for his reason for hiring Karine Jackson after firing Alexa.

[Raja]

31 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

The show is building up to an interesting season finale with all the subplots going on. I guess Lady Mae sees her gambling father as an embarrassment. I don't know if she, Mac and Mavis have tried helping him and he doesn't want it but I assume there's more to this family drama than Dad's gambling habit.

 

I wonder how much does the average member of the church know about the Greenleaf family drama. The staff can't be keeping their lips sealed to ALL things they see in the church offices. 

 

Mac.....oh dude. That ending. Still, that girl knows what she's doing and he knows as well. Mac is slime but that's what you expect of the clean up guy and he got way too much on his plate. James better hope if Mac goes down, Mac doesn't pull him and his whole family with him. 

 

 

They have to know young pastor Gigi was a  single mom but now things are all coming to a head.

[atiyah9369]

I kept expecting Uncle Mac to have a heart attack last night.

[Arcadiasw]

14 minutes ago, atiyah9369 said:

I kept expecting Uncle Mac to have a heart attack last night.

Keep picking up young women it will happen. But seriously, I'm amazed at how blind or overly trusting the citizens are to the Greenleaf family. I don't know if the women that picked up the girl is family or friend but they either know what's going on or just don't care, but the security lady didn't question Mac taking a young woman who isn't a relative to his apartment??? 

[Syndicate]

On 7/19/2016 at 0:26 PM, sugarbaker design said:

I may be wrong, but I got the impression that Kevin's attraction to the guy in the first couple of episodes (the guy who was leasing some space?) was Kevin's first same-sex attraction.  It simultaneously excited and terrified him.

I've said before that I believe these feelings are either very new to him or he's had these feelings in the past but never acted on them.

[Syndicate]

On 7/20/2016 at 2:27 PM, Dee said:

What's the birth order of the Greenleaf siblings?

I think I recall it being mentioned somewhere that Faith was the oldest. I'd make a guess that she's followed by Grace, then Jacob, with Charity being the youngest.

[wanderingstar]

I too wonder what the deal is with Lady Mae and her father. I mean, her hatred of him was virulent, and it's understandable given the vicious words he used toward her. Mac seems to still feel some pity for his father or at least enough obligation to give him money. 

And what the heck was with Isabel accepting the wedding cake purchase from Mac? I'm thinking she'll regret that - probably after she finds Gigi and Noah in bed together (no spoiler just guessing/inferring).

[Neurochick]

Lady Mae's father implied that she is not his daughter.  I wonder if there is any truth to that. 

23 hours ago, Arcadiasw said:

Keep picking up young women it will happen. But seriously, I'm amazed at how blind or overly trusting the citizens are to the Greenleaf family. I don't know if the women that picked up the girl is family or friend but they either know what's going on or just don't care, but the security lady didn't question Mac taking a young woman who isn't a relative to his apartment??? 

You would think so, but Mac seems to be regarded as "respectable." So maybe that's what everybody sees.

It was interesting when Mac was talking to that young girl.  He said that the girl he was seeing, when his mother killed herself, looked something like the girl in that art book.  I wonder what happened to her.  Maybe Mac's stuck at that age, where he keeps seeking out that one girl, but he's looking for her to be the age she was when he knew her. 

[Arcadiasw]

15 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

I too wonder what the deal is with Lady Mae and her father. I mean, her hatred of him was virulent, and it's understandable given the vicious words he used toward her. Mac seems to still feel some pity for his father or at least enough obligation to give him money. 

And what the heck was with Isabel accepting the wedding cake purchase from Mac? I'm thinking she'll regret that - probably after she finds Gigi and Noah in bed together (no spoiler just guessing/inferring).

Also Lady Mae convinced Noah to have the wedding at her house and offered to pay for it. Lady Mae and Mac offering these gifts for Noah and Isabel wedding looks like a gift from the mob where Noah and Isabel will pay a heavy price down the road. 

[represent]

On 7/16/2016 at 5:46 PM, Happytobehere said:

It was interesting when Mac was talking to that young girl.  He said that the girl he was seeing, when his mother killed herself, looked something like the girl in that art book.  I wonder what happened to her.  Maybe Mac's stuck at that age, where he keeps seeking out that one girl, but he's looking for her to be the age she was when he knew her. 

I don't even know if I believe the story he was telling that girl. He's a pedophile and I'm not surprised with Oprah's personal history that she would continue to keep this sickness in the forefront. I was listening to him and it dawned on me that this was all his act, his methodical way of making it seem like the girl has the power, to make her feel some kind of connection with him, empathy toward him before he started going in for the kill. 

At first it's no, you're too young for alcohol, here's a coke. But by the time they hit the couch after his "sad childhood memory" sharing, he's offering her a little sip, bye, just bye. That book, he actually brought it home from work, that book was in his library at work. I think he expected to see her sitting there because it seems like she always waiting around, she's neglected. Bringing that book home was all part of his act, he had just got finished at the beginning of the show having a wet dream about her, ugh. 

Unless they tell me she's in her twenties, I'm going with she's a teenage girl and even if she sits on his damn lap, the ball is in his corner to push her off and take her ass back downstairs if need be to wait with the security guard. He is the adult in the room with the power, no excuse, except he's sick and needs to be stopped which is exactly what Oprah's character said to him. 

Mae's "father" obviously thinks that she isn't his real daughter. Maybe she isn't. Maybe she and Oprah's character, I can't remember he character's name, but maybe they have a different father, than their sick brother. 

Maybe he molested Mae, the family could have a long line of that kind of dysfunction going on which would also explain Mae's denial, in that admitting what happened to her daughter would force her to deal with what might have happened to her. I mean, my goodness, did he look that bad? I know he's a drunk but did he look dirty. He didn't look unkempt to me, he looked like a weak, little old man. So what on earth did he do?  Is that kind of vitriol in front of all those people because he what? Left the family?  If so, then I say wow, and I don't believe that, that's all it is.

Edited July 22, 2016 by represent

[Dee]

It's more than a little disturbing how little Jacob and Charity have grieved Faith's death.

[OoogleEyes]

Holy Cow. Lynn Whitfield's face does.not.move. She needs to lay off the Botox. 

[Joimiaroxeu]

Wonder what Mac is up to with the wedding cake? Encouraging a woman to keep a secret from her future husband seems potentially shady.

The young actress who plays Gigi's daughter Sophia is some amazing casting. They look like they're actually related.

I know this is only a TV show but it's still creepy to watch a sexual predator working their prey. It'd be interesting though if the girl is indeed trying to set him up.

[Neurochick]

21 hours ago, represent said:

 

I don't even know if I believe the story he was telling that girl. He's a pedophile and I'm not surprised with Oprah's personal history that she would continue to keep this sickness in the forefront. I was listening to him and it dawned on me that this was all his act, his methodical way of making it seem like the girl has the power, to make her feel some kind of connection with him, empathy toward him before he started going in for the kill. 

At first it's no, you're too young for alcohol, here's a coke. But by the time they hit the couch after his "sad childhood memory" sharing, he's offering her a little sip, bye, just bye. That book, he actually brought it home from work, that book was in his library at work. I think he expected to see her sitting there because it seems like she always waiting around, she's neglected. Bringing that book home was all part of his act, he had just got finished at the beginning of the show having a wet dream about her, ugh. 

Unless they tell me she's in her twenties, I'm going with she's a teenage girl and even if she sits on his damn lap, the ball is in his corner to push her off and take her ass back downstairs if need be to wait with the security guard. He is the adult in the room with the power, no excuse, except he's sick and needs to be stopped which is exactly what Oprah's character said to him. 

 

Here's the question, was anything he told her true?  Did he try to kill himself?  It was obvious he brought the book with him, because he knew he'd see her there.  I wonder if anything he told her was true.   When did this start?  Did he molest his sisters?  Is he supposed to be older or younger than his sisters?  

I think the father molested Lady Mae though and she never dealt with it, which is why she didn't believe her own daughter had been molested.  

The thing about Mac's wet dream was that, at first I thought the girl was Gigi's daughter, who is supposed to be a teenager.  Then, when I saw this girl, I was confused because she didn't look like a teenager to me; but then when I saw her I got it, "she is supposed to be a teenager."  Mac goes after girls he sees as weak and vulnerable.

[jhlipton]

Ugh -- sorry to hear that!

[jhlipton]

3 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

The young actress who plays Gigi's daughter Sophia is some amazing casting. They look like they're actually related.

Both Desiree Ross (Sophia Greenleaf, 17) and Lovie Simone (Zora Greenleaf, 18) are awesome actresses.  One site suggested Lovie to play Riri, the new Iron "man".

Finding the name of the girl in Mac's place was hard enough (it's "Michaela"} -- finding the age of the actress who plays her (Charlotte Benesch) is nearly impossible (it's not on iMDB and she doesn't have a Wikipedia page..  One site says she's 20, though, so she's probably playing 15 to 16.

[sugarbaker design]

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Here's the question, was anything he told her true?  Did he try to kill himself?  It was obvious he brought the book with him, because he knew he'd see her there.  I wonder if anything he told her was true.  

I thought the story was true, something like that is easy to check on.  I still think he uses that story as his way of luring young women.  When Sophia gave him the thumbs up, I shuddered.

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Is he supposed to be older or younger than his sisters?  

He mentioned in his story that his sisters were out of the house, leaving him alone with his mother.  So I'm assuming he's younger.  It is crazy that one sister is totally devoted while the other can't stand him.

[Arcadiasw]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2016 at 4:47 PM, Dee said:

It's more than a little disturbing how little Jacob and Charity have grieved Faith's death.

I wonder about the sibling relationships myself. It doesn’t seem like they are close and are only into their lives and didn’t notice a family member in crisis. I’m sure they mourned Faith and were shocked at her death but it might not affect them as deeply if they were really close. There’s so much about the Greenleaf’s family background that hasn’t been revealed. While Faith (knew) and Grace know the truth about Mac, I don’t think Jacob and Charity know. I hope we get more background into this family as the series continues.  

 

Grace is the only one openly mourning her sister’s death but how close was Grace to Faith or her other siblings? Grace has been gone for 20 years and judging from the pilot James and Lady Mae hadn’t met their granddaughter before. I assume since Grace hasn’t been in contact with her family in person, did she keep in contact with them through phone calls and pictures through email and Facebook or was Grace only keeping in contact with Mavis? When Grace left 20 years ago, were Jacob and Charity teen and preteen age then? That could explain why they are not close. Charity wasn’t happy to see Grace return. Jacob seems indifferent. Grace investigating Faith’s death and taking down Mac could be her way of making amends for not being there for Faith. I hope the writers explain why Grace was gone for 20 years.  Putting as much distance between herself and Mac and her mother, I can understand but not her siblings.

[Arcadiasw]

7 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

I thought the story was true, something like that is easy to check on.  I still think he uses that story as his way of luring young women.  When Sophia gave him the thumbs up, I shuddered.

He mentioned in his story that his sisters were out of the house, leaving him alone with his mother.  So I'm assuming he's younger.  It is crazy that one sister is totally devoted while the other can't stand him.

As it was mentioned by a previous poster, Lady Mae could be in denial. Maybe she was abused by her Dad and Mac protected her or he looked out for her and she can't face the fact someone who protected her could be abusive to her daughter?  Who knows? There's so much mystery with that family. They all need to see a shrink like Jacob and Kerissa.

[wanderingstar]

Surprise ending! 

Well, it was previewed, but we didn't know who was going to get shot. And I thought the police shooting story was very timely in light of what just happened in the Freddie Gray case.

Noah didn't wait for his fiancee to be gone 5 minutes before he slept with Grace. Not that I'm complaining because I thought their love scene was pretty hot. Lady Mae witnessing Gigi's walk of shame had me screaming at my TV. Damn, mother knows everything doesn't she?

Isabel cracked me up with her "Who's your plus one" question to Gigi. Girl, stop being so damn obvious. 

So, Mac has fixed it so that if he is brought down, all of Calvary will go with him. Devious.

This show is deliciously soapy. Love it!

[Arcadiasw]

10 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Surprise ending! 

Well, it was previewed, but we didn't know who was going to get shot. And I thought the police shooting story was very timely in light of what just happened in the Freddie Gray case.

Noah didn't wait for his fiancee to be gone 5 minutes before he slept with Grace. Not that I'm complaining because I thought their love scene was pretty hot. Lady Mae witnessing Gigi's walk of shame had me screaming at my TV. Damn, mother knows everything doesn't she?

Isabel cracked me up with her "Who's your plus one" question to Gigi. Girl, stop being so damn obvious. 

So, Mac has fixed it so that if he is brought down, all of Calvary will go with him. Devious.

This show is deliciously soapy. Love it!

You said everything I was gonna say! LOL! I wish I could like this 10 times!

 

With the warning at the beginning of the ep, I had a feeling the cop was gonna get shot. Last week when I saw the preview, I thought it was gonna be Uncle Mac or rather I was hoping.

 

Well, wedding’s off! I was hoping against hope Grace wouldn’t do that, she wouldn’t be that woman. I was talking to my TV, “Leave the house!” and “Why the hell did you stay the whole night? Take your ass home before someone catches your walk of shame.” And of course Lady Mae is waiting as soon as Grace came in. LOL!

 

“Look like you’ve been rode hard and put away wet!” I gotta find a way to use that. LOL!

 

I hadn’t been much of a supporter of Lady Mae lighting into Grace but in this case, I can understand. Noah needs to be called out, too. I would love to see James do that. He had no problems firing Alexa. No reason he couldn’t do the same to Noah or at least let us viewing audience see James light into Noah.

 

A couple of ironies last night.

 

James has fought against putting his church on TV but his sermon episodes ago and his daughter’s actions are gonna give the church more TV coverage than James ever wanted. I understand why James doesn’t want to be on TV but given his Parkinson’s, James should listen to his wife and tell the family. Still not sure about reinstating Jacob unless he really wants to preach and if so, James can groom Jacob properly instead of holding out hope Grace will return and take up mantle.

 

Lady Mae telling Grace she won’t be satisfied until she burns the place to the ground is ironic because it’s Lady Mae’s brother that can burn that place to the ground.

 

As wrong as Mac is for setting up James and Lady Mae to fall with him if he’s ever exposed, I don’t have much sympathy for them. He’s been their cleanup guy for years. We know about the taxes and with Faith, it seems James and Lady Mae knew what Uncle Mac did but looked the other way, pretend it didn’t happen or try to forget it with prayer. Either way, they knew shady things surrounded Mac and they kept him on board. They allowed to do these things for years. Maybe they knew if Mac goes down, he’s taking them with him and that’s why he’s been given a pass. Who knows? But whatever karma falls on that church and them they have it coming.  

[wanderingstar]

Forgot to add that I am really enjoying Bishop James' rivalry with Pastor Skanks. Their confrontation last night was great.

[Arcadiasw]

5 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

Forgot to add that I am really enjoying Bishop James' rivalry with Pastor Skanks. Their confrontation last night was great.

The writer was deliberate with the Skanks name. I re-watch it Skanks said his talks against Calvary wasn't about the cop but of James. Makes me wonder what Skanks know about the bishop or was he referring to Mac shady dealings that Skanks thinks James is covering for.

[jhlipton]

They made lose my liking for Grace.  What. The. F**king. Hell???  Maybe Noah would have been yours if you hadn't left.  MAYBE!!!! But you did leave, and that put a quit-claim on him.  Now he belongs with someone else and you have sunk to Jacob's level.  Worse because Kaneesha knew and approved to a certain level.  You're one grade above Mac, scum.

Noah isn't any better but he doesn't see himself as better than all the rest.

Shame, Gigi.  SHAME!!!!

[Arcadiasw]

17 hours ago, jhlipton said:

They made lose my liking for Grace.  What. The. F**king. Hell???  Maybe Noah would have been yours if you hadn't left.  MAYBE!!!! But you did leave, and that put a quit-claim on him.  Now he belongs with someone else and you have sunk to Jacob's level.  Worse because Kaneesha knew and approved to a certain level.  You're one grade above Mac, scum.

Noah isn't any better but he doesn't see himself as better than all the rest.

Shame, Gigi.  SHAME!!!!

I wonder when Sophia's father will be making an appearance. If Lady Mae could've she would’ve had him at the Greenleaf compound already to keep Grace from Noah.

[topanga]

On 7/28/2016 at 11:20 PM, jhlipton said:

They made lose my liking for Grace.  What. The. F**king. Hell???  Maybe Noah would have been yours if you hadn't left.  MAYBE!!!! But you did leave, and that put a quit-claim on him.  Now he belongs with someone else and you have sunk to Jacob's level.  Worse because Kaneesha knew and approved to a certain level.  You're one grade above Mac, scum.

Noah isn't any better but he doesn't see himself as better than all the rest.

Shame, Gigi.  SHAME!!!!

I totally agree. Grace was my favorite character till that point. 

 

On 7/28/2016 at 9:47 AM, Arcadiasw said:

You said everything I was gonna say! LOL! I wish I could like this 10 times!

 

With the warning at the beginning of the ep, I had a feeling the cop was gonna get shot. Last week when I saw the preview, I thought it was gonna be Uncle Mac or rather I was hoping.

 

Well, wedding’s off! I was hoping against hope Grace wouldn’t do that, she wouldn’t be that woman. I was talking to my TV, “Leave the house!” and “Why the hell did you stay the whole night? Take your ass home before someone catches your walk of shame.” And of course Lady Mae is waiting as soon as Grace came in. LOL!

 

“Look like you’ve been rode hard and put away wet!” I gotta find a way to use that. LOL!

 

I hadn’t been much of a supporter of Lady Mae lighting into Grace but in this case, I can understand. Noah needs to be called out, too. I would love to see James do that. He had no problems firing Alexa. No reason he couldn’t do the same to Noah or at least let us viewing audience see James light into Noah.

 

A couple of ironies last night.

 

James has fought against putting his church on TV but his sermon episodes ago and his daughter’s actions are gonna give the church more TV coverage than James ever wanted. I understand why James doesn’t want to be on TV but given his Parkinson’s, James should listen to his wife and tell the family. Still not sure about reinstating Jacob unless he really wants to preach and if so, James can groom Jacob properly instead of holding out hope Grace will return and take up mantle.

I don't understand Grace and Lady Mae's relationship. Why does Lady Mae hold Grace responsible for what's happening between Jacob and his father?  "Now that you're back, Jacob won't have a chance to preach." How is that Grace's fault? Grace has had to overcome her obstacles as a single mom and whatever grief she's dealing with surrounding her sister. She's not responsible for her brother's success or failure. 

But it seems that her Lady Mae is a typical case of raising your daughters and loving your sons. Yes she laid into Grace for coming home after being out all night. But at church she made a joke and actually giggled about Jacob's past indiscretions. So why are the situations different?  

Edited July 30, 2016 by topanga

[Joimiaroxeu]

"I'll pray for you." Yikes, the way Noah's fiancee Isabel said it, it was in the neighborhood of "Bless your heart."

What is Lady Mae up to with Noah? That's a lot of money she's laying out for his wedding and he's not even related to her--that we know of yet. I keep thinking she's getting ready to pull something.

Aw gee, Noah and Gigi. Guess Isabel was right to be worried. Lady Mae is a vicious piece of work though. “Look like you’ve been rode hard and put away wet!” Yeah, no. That's a bit of shade best said of someone behind their back versus directly to their face. I think the writer(s) overreached there.

Quote

But it seems that her Lady Mae is a typical case of raising your daughters and loving your sons. Yes she laid into Grace for coming home after being out all night. But at church she made a joke and actually giggled about Jacob's past indiscretions. So why are the situations different?

ICAM. Jacob was screwing the sidepiece right inside the church building during the services. The only way that could've been more sacrilegious if they'd done it on the altar in front of the congregation. And at least with Gigi and Noah no one broke any marriage vows. I think someone does need to call Noah out though. It probably won't be Lady Mae with her "oh well, boys will be boys" attitude. Odds are Gigi left something behind and Isabel will find it. That'd be the soapy way.

[jhlipton]

3 hours ago, topanga said:

But at church she made a joke and actually giggled about Jacob's past indiscretions. So why are the situations different? 

Boys will be boys, amirite? 

(Anyone who uses that "excuse" for anything needs an extensive training in rape culture.)

2 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

And at least with Gigi and Noah no one broke any marriage vows.

Maybe not a vow before God or anything like that.  But they did pledge to be faithful, and "no sex before marriage" should definitely apply to "plus-ones"!

[Arcadiasw]

3 hours ago, topanga said:

I totally agree. Grace was my favorite character till that point. 

 

I don't understand Grace and Lady Mae's relationship. Why does Lady Mae hold Grace responsible for what's happening between Jacob and his father?  "Now that you're back, Jacob won't have a chance to preach." How is that Grace's fault? Grace has had to overcome her obstacles as a single mom and whatever grief she's dealing with surrounding her sister. She's not responsible for her brother's success or failure. 

But it seems that her Lady Mae is a typical case of raising your daughters and loving your sons. Yes she laid into Grace for coming home after being out all night. But at church she made a joke and actually giggled about Jacob's past indiscretions. So why are the situations different?  

James and Lady Mae are the same with their kids. Not even sure if either parent realizes this. James is harder on Jacob but gives Grace passes. Lady Mae is harder on Grace but give Jacob passes. With Charity, they're both on the same level except Lady Mae is little harder. I remember Lady Mae mocking Charity's desire to preach at the dinner table while James was willing to listen but you could tell in his voice and body language he wasn't interested. 

 

I think Lady Mae is saying as long as Grace is here, Jacob will never reclaim his spot to preach. His affair was only an excuse for James to use to get rid of him since Grace returned but if Grace was never here when Jacob's discretions became known, James would've reprimanded Jacob but not fire him. My question is why is James so obsessed with Grace being preacher at Calvary? James sees Grace as the preacher to carry on Calvary; to replace him. Even though Grace left 20 years ago and said many times (much to James ire) she does not want to preach, James still wants Grace to preach. Jacob may not be as good a preacher as Grace or James but that still doesn't mean James can't groom Jacob. 

 

I particularly liked the scenes with Lady Mae and Jacob and Lady Mae and Grace because it was something that was needed. The characters seem to know what happened in the family past and the consequences of that but we the audience don't know yet.  I understood where Lady Mae was coming from in her talk with Grace. I don't think Grace knew or cared what her 20 year departure did to the family.  Grace had her reason to leave and I'll be glad when they elaborate on the whole story. If James was relying on Grace to take over Calvary, her departure left a hole in the family. Lady Mae and Grace agreed Jacob never wanted to preach. He sacrificed his baseball dreams for the family business. Grace is right preaching isn't a family business but it can be made that way right or wrong. Jacob for all his indiscretion is at least trying. He's not sitting around watching TV or staying in bed all day doing nothing and given what Grace did, James (if he learns what happened) has to either exact the same punishment to Grace as he did Jacob or reinstate him. 

[Arcadiasw]

4 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

"I'll pray for you." Yikes, the way Noah's fiancee Isabel said it, it was in the neighborhood of "Bless your heart."

What is Lady Mae up to with Noah? That's a lot of money she's laying out for his wedding and he's not even related to her--that we know of yet. I keep thinking she's getting ready to pull something.

Aw gee, Noah and Gigi. Guess Isabel was right to be worried. Lady Mae is a vicious piece of work though. “Look like you’ve been rode hard and put away wet!” Yeah, no. That's a bit of shade best said of someone behind their back versus directly to their face. I think the writer(s) overreached there.

ICAM. Jacob was screwing the sidepiece right inside the church building during the services. The only way that could've been more sacrilegious if they'd done it on the altar in front of the congregation. And at least with Gigi and Noah no one broke any marriage vows. I think someone does need to call Noah out though. It probably won't be Lady Mae with her "oh well, boys will be boys" attitude. Odds are Gigi left something behind and Isabel will find it. That'd be the soapy way.

No marriage vows broken but it's still not right to sleep with someone who's engaged to be married. I think everyone knew there were unresolved issues between Grace and Noah. Sophia saw it immediately. No wonder Isabel was so worried. I kind of wonder if Noah was settling for Isabel since he thought Grace was out of reach being away for 20 years.

[Joimiaroxeu]

To clarify, I don't approve of what Gigi and Noah did. I do however think committing adultery is worse than cheating on your fiancee, especially if the married person has children with their spouse. If Noah had any guts, and respect for Isabel, he'd probably break up with her. It seems to me that Isabel is indeed just a consolation prize for him and he's still carrying a torch for Gigi.

Quote

No marriage vows broken but it's still not right to sleep with someone who's engaged to be married.

Perhaps but it wasn't as if Gigi held a gun to Noah's head. He could've chosen not to sleep with her. While I blame them both, I'm inclined to put more of it on him since he's the one in a committed relationship.

[Arcadiasw]

15 hours ago, Joimiaroxeu said:

 

Perhaps but it wasn't as if Gigi held a gun to Noah's head. He could've chosen not to sleep with her. While I blame them both, I'm inclined to put more of it on him since he's the one in a committed relationship.

Lol! Please. You know Noah wanted to sleep with Grace the moment he saw her again. No gun was needed ;)  I agree more blame is on him since he's in the relationship. I'll have to re-watch but wasn't it Grace who said they should stop, Noah agreed but kissed Grace again anyway?

 

Earlier in the show it was pretty telling when Grace was on her computer looking for dirt on Mac she told Noah he didn’t need to be there. He said it was okay. It's either be with Grace or work on his vows. Granted most guys aren't gonna be all excited to work on their vows but still. 

[jhlipton]

Grace may have said "Stop" (which "No means no" means STOP, Noah) but she didn't resist the second kiss.  So I blame them both equally (Grace possibly more since she started the scene)

[represent]

On 7/31/2016 at 10:53 AM, Arcadiasw said:

Lol! Please. You know Noah wanted to sleep with Grace the moment he saw her again. No gun was needed ;)  I agree more blame is on him since he's in the relationship. I'll have to re-watch but wasn't it Grace who said they should stop, Noah agreed but kissed Grace again anyway?

 

Earlier in the show it was pretty telling when Grace was on her computer looking for dirt on Mac she told Noah he didn’t need to be there. He said it was okay. It's either be with Grace or work on his vows. Granted most guys aren't gonna be all excited to work on their vows but still. 

It's on all three parties involved. Women have intuition and like to lie to themselves, the fiance' knows something is wrong. She's asking Mae if Noah seems happy? What? Days/weeks away from her wedding, please. And why is she not asking her fiance' if he's happy? Shes's not marrying Mae.

Gigi and Noah are both equally to blame, I personally do not subscribe to the it's this party's fault because they are the one in the committed relationship/marriage. That's just folks way of trying to avoid accountability, nope, doesn't work with me.  Adultery takes two, cheating takes two, they both have been looking longingly at one another since Gigi strolled up through that driveway on foot in the first episode. Those two knew what was up. Then Gigi says she should go, but Noah's lust/love, love for Gigi that is, and lack of respect somehow paralyzed his feet, that he couldn't walk to the door the minute she said she should go, open it, and close it right behind her. Same for Gigi, don't say you should go, just go. Oh wait, how about not show up at all because you know damn well you have a history, that the feelings are still there but he's engaged. Go find a stuff animal to lean on not some other woman's fiance'. Go home and hug your kid, cause no way can she talk to her bitchy mother unfortunately. Or how about go to the bar and lean on your auntie "Oprah" LOL, I keep forgetting her character's name, probably because I don't see her often enough.   Bye to all three of these parties, I just don't have patience for this game it's so old, and tired. Grown ass folks making commitments and can't put sentences together to have tough but much needed truthful discussions before all shit hits the fan.

Gigi and Noah should have put that shit on the table in words, a conversation stop beating around the bush. Noah and his fiance' should have long had a discussion and broken off the engagement, then let shit play out and feelings get sorted out to see where it takes them. But this nonsense, please. They all knew something was off, all three of them.

Edited August 3, 2016 by represent

[jhlipton]

I wouldn't put any blame on Isabel -- she didn't do what she should have done, but she didn't do wrong.  As soon as Grace showed up and she saw how they looked at each other, she should have taken them aside and had them talk.  Let Noah and Grace address their past and future, honestly, while Isabel is out of earshot.  Then she can join them and they handle the situation like adults.  But Isabel needn't be the one to have them talk -- that's on them, not her.

[Arcadiasw]

3 hours ago, represent said:

It's on all three parties involved. Women have intuition and like to lie to themselves, the fiance' knows something is wrong. She's asking Mae if Noah seems happy? What? Days/weeks away from her wedding, please. And why is she not asking her fiance' if he's happy? Shes's not marrying Mae.

Gigi and Noah are both equally to blame, I personally do not subscribe to the it's this party's fault because they are the one in the committed relationship/marriage. That's just folks way of trying to avoid accountability, nope, doesn't work with me.  Adultery takes two, cheating takes two, they both have been looking longingly at one another since Gigi strolled up through that driveway on foot in the first episode. Those two knew what was up. Then Gigi says she should go, but Noah's lust/love, love for Gigi that is, and lack of respect somehow paralyzed his feet, that he couldn't walk to the door the minute she said she should go, open it, and close it right behind her. Same for Gigi, don't say you should go, just go. Oh wait, how about not show up at all because you know damn well you have a history, that the feelings are still there but he's engaged. Go find a stuff animal to lean on not some other woman's fiance'. Go home and hug your kid, cause no way can she talk to her bitchy mother unfortunately. Or how about go to the bar and lean on your auntie "Oprah" LOL, I keep forgetting her character's name, probably because I don't see her often enough.   Bye to all three of these parties, I just don't have patience for this game it's so old, and tired. Grown ass folks making commitments and can't put sentences together to have tough but much needed truthful discussions before all shit hits the fan.

Gigi and Noah should have put that shit on the table in words, a conversation stop beating around the bush. Noah and his fiance' should have long had a discussion and broken off the engagement, then let shit play out and feelings get sorted out to see where it takes them. But this nonsense, please. They all knew something was off, all three of them.

I think Isabel's doubts came when Grace returned. Didn't the three have dinner together in an early episode? She probably saw the love was still there. Even if Isabel did talk with Noah, he would've lied or just be in denial. It was bad Grace went to Noah's house but at night made it even worse. She didn't know Isabel was gone until she showed up at Noah's house. It would've been better if she sat in her car and talked to Noah but that's not how soap works.  

[represent]

49 minutes ago, Arcadiasw said:

I think Isabel's doubts came when Grace returned. Didn't the three have dinner together in an early episode? She probably saw the love was still there. Even if Isabel did talk with Noah, he would've lied or just be in denial. It was bad Grace went to Noah's house but at night made it even worse. She didn't know Isabel was gone until she showed up at Noah's house. It would've been better if she sat in her car and talked to Noah but that's not how soap works.  

Of course he would have lied, "to protect her" of course, coward, and she would have known he was lying.  That was my point at the beginning of my post in regard to Isabel, is that she knows deep down what's up,  women usually do. We know, it's usually men who lack that gut feeling, intuition, they don't know what the hell is going on which is why they always get caught. Meanwhile, women with no shame nor integrity get away with something like passing off kids, that don't really belong to their significant other. Because once again, we are in the know. Women know damn well somethings off if they don't just know all the details, we just choose to live in denial so we can rush down that aisle in a pretty white dress. 

Edited August 4, 2016 by represent

[wanderingstar]

This latest episode was so good I don't even know where to start. 

I'm so glad everyone knows - and believes - the truth about Mac. Lady Mae was pissing me off for a minute there, but as soon as Mac said "I think about her every day" (meaning Faith), she knew. She needs to apologize to Grace for not believing all those years ago.

I don't want Bishop James to shoot Mac, though (tempting as that is). Mac needs to go to jail for what he did, though I do wonder how they're going to make that happen.

Remind me never to play poker with Grace or Noah. Speaking of Noah, he's got some nerve. Don't blame Gigi because you were both wrong. Guess he thought his actions wouldn't have consequences. I felt bad for Isabel. 

I liked Jacob for the first time ever tonight. Loved his scenes with Grace, though I hope they keep the sibling rivarly with the two of them.

Zora and her snark provided exactly the comedy I needed to lighten this otherwise heavy episode.

Charity and Kevin's story still bores me. I need it to pick up soon.

[Arcadiasw]

19 minutes ago, Gillian Rosh said:

 

Remind me never to play poker with Grace or Noah. Speaking of Noah, he's got some nerve. Don't blame Gigi because you were both wrong. Guess he thought his actions wouldn't have consequences. I felt bad for Isabel. 

Oh, I think you want to play poker with them. You'll clean up good.