S03.E10: Trial and Execution

[HalcyonDays]

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Ominous Episode synopsis: There is an inevitable march to the gallows for the captured spies on both sides.

[bmoore4026]

Goddammit!  We could have been rid of Abraham!

I've always had a thing for John Andre.  The actor who played him had a rather hard edged face rather that the historic Andre's soft one, but I can overlook that.  At least they got rid of that stupid blonde braid that looked better on Brunhilda.

Andre got to die in his uniform, which is, I guess, the one comfort Washington could give - that he would die a British soldier rather than a civilian.  I'm also hoping he got a fresh pair of socks, too, rather than ones he was wearing when he got captured and forced to walk in.

And, also, I'm glad they didn't show anything tasteless or disrespectful like Andre losing control of his bladder like Hell on Wheels did with The Swede.  Them pulling down on Andre legs to break his neck was messed up enough.

Now, I wouldn't have minded if Simcoe got hanged and peed himself because he's a cartoonish caricature that needs to go now.  I feel bad for his actor - he'll probably be typecast as several slimy British bad guys.

Guess the next season will be the last one, what with 1781 being the Battle of Yorktown.

[KaleyFirefly]

I hate hanging scenes so I couldn't watch during that time. Did Abe's father really try to save him at the last minute?

Andre's death was sad in a way, and from I read of the historical event, many of the people present were also sad, and didn't want to see him hanged either.

Is this finally the last we'll see of Simcoe? I really can't stand his voice anymore, and I started putting the TV on mute (with the subtitles on) whenever he came on the screen. 

Did they really ruin the memory of Nathan Hale's famous last words by implying that he never really said them? That's not cool, show. 

I guess from the ending with Townsend that the show was renewed for another season?

[ComeWhatMay]

Nathan Hale! Hollywood History isn't always how I like it. Peggy, crazy like a fox. Ben directing Caleb without uttering a word. Love how Caleb kept his eyes on Ben, watching over him, during the tense meeting with Washington. 

Dick Woodhull, World's Worst Father until he wasn't. Mary Blake (a family name -- heh) Woodhull is truly ride or die. Abe lucked out & maybe, finally now he knows it. 

Andre making his final exit like a man. Ben's expression when Andre spoke of the innocent suffering most in war. Debonair till the end... "I apologize I won't make it home after all." Abigail's sorrow & Andre's realization she was a spy was beautifully played. Show Peggy would have traded Arnold for Andre in a minute too like the British Brass. 

Loved Andre & Ben's carriage conversation & handshake. "Why?" Ben's woman died, he wants Andre's to live. 

Hoping for a renewal to see the war won.

[bmoore4026]

20 minutes ago, KaleyFirefly said:

I hate hanging scenes so I couldn't watch during that time. Did Abe's father really try to save him at the last minute?

Andre's death was sad in a way, and from I read of the historical event, many of the people present were also sad, and didn't want to see him hanged either.

Is this finally the last we'll see of Simcoe? I really can't stand his voice anymore, and I started putting the TV on mute (with the subtitles on) whenever he came on the screen. 

Did they really ruin the memory of Nathan Hale's famous last words by implying that he never really said them? That's not cool, show. 

I guess from the ending with Townsend that the show was renewed for another season?

Abraham's father rushes toward him and grabs his legs, making it seem like he's going to yank on them.  Instead, lifts Abe up with all his strength and yells for some of the men in the crowd to help.  Several do so, even with asshole Simcoe threatening to fire on them.

What Nathan Hale actually said is still debatable, but the famous line we're taught is closest to what  we're ever going to get.

At least they didn't pull a "will they/won't they" on Abraham's hanging like they did on Under the Dome.

Edited June 28, 2016 by bmoore4026

[EyewatchTV211]

I thought it was a very good episode. Loved all the stuff with the Culper Ring, Washington, Hamilton, and Andre. Really enjoyed the Ben and Andre carriage scene. Also that they've finally shown some of Ben's intelligence in the last few eps, including figuring out Mrs. Arnold. While Abe and his father have both annoyed me, I did like the resolution of that storyline and Simcoe finally somewhat getting what he deserves. And I loved how they ended the ep with Townsend saying, "Mr. Rivington, I'd like to buy an advertisement." I laughed - it was a nice way to end. It is definitely hard to watch people hang, though.

I didn't realize until reading tweets by the writers that Peggy actually did act all crazy when they went to her. 

I don't think Andre realized Abigail was a spy, ComeWhatMay. I think he just felt she was loyal to him and sad that he was going to be killed. He asked Ben in the carriage who the spy was in NY, though I guess that would be both Townsend and Abigail. I still don't think he really figured it out, but I might have missed something.

Edited June 28, 2016 by VMepicgrl

[ketose]

I'd almost like to see a timeline of where Turn follows historical events and where it deviates. Most of the important elements of West Point and the Andre execution seem accurate.

"Get out of my town, you pathetic amateur." - Richard Woodhull finally comes to the fight. I wonder if he might start fighting for the patriots at some point.

They really make it out like Peggy is going to be miserable with Arnold anyway. Arnold didn't end up much better. Expensive declarations and cheap booze.

[LittleIggy]

Historically, Peggy was a very loyal wife. They had several children. The British military never respected Benedict Arnold because he was a traitor.

Finally, the worst father ever does something right! I liked the contrast between Woodhull, Sr., the bad father, and Townsend, Sr., the good father. I do hope the show is renewed.

[HalcyonDays]

Awesome episode. Can't help but say that I got really teary-eyed at John Andre's execution. J.J. Feilds played it brilliantly. Knowing that the real Andre was stoic and professional and honourable, yet briefly terrified, really JJ did brilliantly.

 Abe - for the longest time, I really expected him to hang. Partly, because of the show's ratings, I wonder if it will be renewed (it should). But well done. And stupid Magistrate Woodhull, finally redeeming himself and being a decent person.

Mary - what a change. Season 1, I wanted her gone. But goddammit, have she ever come into her own. Her, resolute on the stand, and "selling" Woodhull Sr. out (brilliantly, as she should have) was brilliiant. She's the only one at this point, who is not cowed, or hesitant to speak out, which is wonderful. Love her to death.

This felt very much like it could be a series finale. I thought that Owain Yeoman was - as always - awesome as a hard-done-by Arnold.

And I will admit - I hate stereotypical woman hysterics - but for Peggy, I totally understood. She's playing them bigtime, and she knows it, and is working it. This I don't mind, knowing how she is working the stupidity of the men at the time.

[bmoore4026]

7 minutes ago, HalcyonDays said:

And I will admit - I hate stereotypical woman hysterics - but for Peggy, I totally understood. She's playing them bigtime, and she knows it, and is working it. This I don't mind, knowing how she is working the stupidity of the men at the time.

Really, Peggy Shippen was one of history's best masterminds.  And she got away with it.

[LittleIggy]

So old man Woodhull gave Simcoe the names of people who were contractors with the British army to provide food supplies knowing Simcoe would go overboard and attract the attention of his superiors? Now we know why he was prepared to give a long closing argument. Didn't know the old man had it in him.

[AV8n]

Big Dick Woodhull has a line that shan't be crossed. Want to hang his only living son for treason? Go ahead. Want to use the town's gravestones - including Ma Woodhull's- as fortifications? No problemo. But kick him out of his study and claim it as your own private office, and shit's about to get real. Still, nice turn of events.

Mary is pure badass, and more so with each episode. I figure the series finale will end with her holding Cornwallis by the nads while he signs the terms of surrender at Yorktown, knowing he's one Yankee away from singing soprano.

Nice of the Brits to make Arnold a brigadier, but then they made him find his own troops, making him the first soldier to try out the "Army of One" slogan. Meanwhile, Peggy is still holding onto Andre's padawan braid like a good luck charm.

[Haleth]

I mentioned this in the history thread last year but since Nathan Hale popped up in this episode I thought it would be OK to mention here. Nathan Hale and Ben Talmadge really were good friends and roommates at Yale.  And Ben really did like Andre.

This show should have featured the Townsends instead of Abe. 

[tabloidlover]

I loved this episode.  It was an awesome ending to a great season.  I pray it returns again for a Season 4.  My husband had given up on it before this season, said it was too slow.  I kept every single episode and made him binge watch the season.  He LOVED it. 

[LittleIggy]

I just started reading Nathaniel Philbrick's "Valiant Ambition" about Washington and Arnold and highly recommend it. I've read a lot about Washington but not much about Arnold. Appears he was interested in a fashionable Loyalist lass before Peggy when he was 36 and the girl was 16! And he was a real horndog! ;-)

[Hanahope]

On 6/28/2016 at 0:30 PM, LittleIggy said:

So old man Woodhull gave Simcoe the names of people who were contractors with the British army to provide food supplies knowing Simcoe would go overboard and attract the attention of his superiors? Now we know why he was prepared to give a long closing argument. Didn't know the old man had it in him.

Ah, thank you for explaining this.  I was a bit confused.

Its a shame that Andre was hanged, because really he was acting like a British officer, not a spy.  Robert Rogers sure ruined a few lives there.

How ironic that the British military refused to respect Arnold, but they were stuck with him in order to 'attract' more defectors/traitors.

[Kabota]

I think the show really did do a very good job of presenting the Arnold/Andre affair, despite the obvious deviations from history. The final two episodes were suspenseful and intense, even with a great deal of the action fairly common knowledge.

Case in point, even though all logic would point the other way, I still wasn’t completely sure until it happened, whether Abe was going to escape the noose or not. I mean, I was, but I wasn’t. I had figured Richard for a redemption arc, but I didn’t for a minute see the long game he was playing with the list of names he provided Simcoe. That moment with Cooke and DeJong in the tavern was so random, and then suddenly, everything made sense. Still not a huge fan of the Setauket hijinks, but this was a worthwhile payoff — with pretty much all the Woodhull secrets exposed between the family.

I’ve not been all that invested in Andre the past season and a half, but I felt for him this episode and was glad to. Abigail’s tears upon reuniting with him spoke to the themes of conflict and consequence faced by most of the characters this season. And, oh, the irony! I didn’t take it that he knew she was involved, but that’s debatable I can see.

I adored the carriage scene with Andre and Ben. I’d been looking forward to their interactions since the beginning of the series, and though they were brief, they were pretty damn near perfect. It was just really cool to see these two men -- very alike and different — honorably acknowledge each other’s efforts and responsibility in a way that really no one else could understand but them.

The hanging scene was...intense. Once again, the music was perfection. Haunting. The handshake. The handkerchiefs. The last words. I got really choked up.

The last look at Peggy... Again, the fact that they made this about “love” for both Andre and Peggy is probably my biggest eyeroll, but I’m not dwelling on the negative at the mo. She did drag at my heartstrings here and earlier during her "fit." I did wonder what she exactly meant by her "Why?" to Tallmadge, though. It could be taken a couple ways.

Arnold in a red coat was so jarring! His unwelcome at the hands of Clinton and the NYC loyalists was well played. That line about the end of sacrifice being death was pretty hard-hitting.

Edited June 29, 2016 by Kabota

[millennium]

A great episode despite the deviations from history (although the dignity and tragedy of Andre's execution seemed spot-on).   The exchange between Ben and Andre in the carriage was probably the most memorable scene of the series thus far.   My only complaint is that the discovery of Arnold and the capture of Andre came on too suddenly, like somebody realized there were only two episodes left in the season and no promise of another so they thought they better film it while they could.

I like the behind the scenes segments on amc.com.  All of the actors from the show seem to take their craft very seriously, real professionals one and all.

[ComeWhatMay]

22 hours ago, Kabota said:

The last look at Peggy... Again, the fact that they made this about “love” for both Andre and Peggy is probably my biggest eyeroll, but I’m not dwelling on the negative at the mo. She did drag at my heartstrings here and earlier during her "fit." I did wonder what she exactly meant by her "Why?" to Tallmadge, though. It could be taken a couple ways.

In the episodes leading up to his execution, we saw Andre consoling himself in the arms of another, Andre's flashback montage, Peggy tearfully marrying an oblivious & narcissistic Arnold, no longer oblivious, but still narcissistic Arnold stewing over Andre's drawing of Peggy & then that last look between Andre & Peggy -- Peggy all the while holding tight to Andre's braid... It was a vintage soap opera super couple ending for Peggy & the spy who loved her. Philomena's, the other woman Andre could have cared less about, pregnancy (the actress' body language in the alley for no one to see & after speaking with Rogers says to me Philomena's not faking) was another vintage touch. As millennium pointed out, everyone comes to work here, the chemistry was there as it has been for all but one of the show's pairings in my opinion & there's more there than what is in the dialogue/they don't tell you everything/leave room for interpretation; so what might come off sophomoric in the hands of other shows, came off fine to me.

Peggy's "Why?" made me think of Daisy Buchanan from The Great Gatsby for some reason when I watched & looking back at Show Peggy's characterization, I see more similarities. Show Andre made his bed & Show Peggy wasn't worth it like Daisy wasn't, but I liked seeing Ben choose love over duty in a symbolic gesture for someone I think was & the loss Ben will always regret.

Edited June 30, 2016 by ComeWhatMay

[HalcyonDays]

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I did wonder what she exactly meant by her "Why?" to Tallmadge, though. It could be taken a couple ways.

Like others, I took it two ways too - Why did you have to hang Andre, or Why are you letting me go? Great scene.

[Kabota]

18 hours ago, HalcyonDays said:

Like others, I took it two ways too - Why did you have to hang Andre, or Why are you letting me go? Great scene.

Or, why would she cross the lines for a traitor? (If she were still playing the game.) Or, why would she run? To a man she doesn't love, when her motivation just died here and nothing else matters? So many questions! I first took it that she was asking him why he was letting her go, and I think that ties in best with his reaction and some of the things he went through this season, but it was obviously meant to be a bit ambiguous.

If I remember correctly, historical Peggy first returns to her family in Philly for a bit before joining her husband.

And I covet that gorgeous blue velvet cape she was wearing.

[LittleIggy]

On June 29, 2016 at 3:00 PM, Hanahope said:

Ah, thank you for explaining this.  I was a bit confused.

Its a shame that Andre was hanged, because really he was acting like a British officer, not a spy.

Well, it was espionage since Andre crossed into enemy territory to obtain information. He was caught in disguise using a false name, carrying important papers he couldn't have gotten except from a Continental Army insider.

[Haleth]

On 6/29/2016 at 3:00 PM, Hanahope said:

Its a shame that Andre was hanged, because really he was acting like a British officer, not a spy.  

The irony with Andre is that if he had been wearing his uniform, acting as a British officer, he likely would have been exchanged, maybe even for Arnold.  Because he was out of uniform he was considered a loathsome spy.

[blackwing]

I agree that hanging scenes are tough to watch.  I had always thought that hanging was pretty much instant death, but read up on it on wiki (ugh) and learned that the hanging scenes depicted here were short drop hanging, where they stand on a cart that is pushed away and die by strangulation.  I would not at all have been unhappy if we had lost Abe.  Curious as to why Simcoe's soldiers didn't fire on Papa Dick and his friends.

Simcoe was too much to take this episode.  I know some find him amusing and love him, but he was way over the top with his bug eyes and gesturing to the magistrate judge.

I honestly don't know if I am going to be back if there is a next season.  I love the time period, I just can't stand either Simcoe or Abe, and unfortunately, they feature prominently in this series.

[SharonH58]

Great ending to a great season!  I am sorry Andre died even though I knew it was history.  Ugh, Benedict in his red coat!   He thinks he is going to now be the hero of the British.  I hope we see Hewlett again and I really hope we get season 4!!

[LilJen]

The Abe almost-hanging was positively grotesque. I am sorry that Andre is gone. He was one of the more interesting characters.

No cable here so I'll have to wait for Netflix to get season 4 to find out what happens with Dumbass Abe and his annoying father.