Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[dragonsbite]

What if the Valonqar is Rickon or Bran? They're both little brothers also. What if Rickon is the last standing Stark?

[YaddaYadda]

27 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

I've just realized I'm actually looking forward to LF's death more than I thought I would.  He's such a creep!

You and me both. On the show and in the books.

I wonder though how much does Littlefinger matter now in the grand scheme of things. He declared for House Stark and then Royce and the army of the Vale declared Jon their king too, which technically means they answer to him, no? His scheme came back to bite him in the ass, and so I'm just wondering.

2 minutes ago, dragonsbite said:

What if the Valonqar is Rickon or Bran? They're both little brothers also. What if Rickon is the last standing Stark?

Rickon died last season.

Edited April 26, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[dragonsbite]

Yep, you're right. I forgot about that.   See? It's been too. damned. long. since the last season.

[OhOkayWhat]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

I wonder though how much does Littlefinger matter now in the grand scheme of things.

I suspect he is thinking on to betray his new king. He betrayed and murdered Joffrey when Joffrey was his king too. 

He declared for the house Stark in the name of the Vale but he still have influence over Sansa.

In some way, it looks a bit like his original plan: Bolton vs. Stannis, with the Vale taking control at the last minute. Next step: declaring Sansa the Wardeness of the North while he still hold influence over her.

In the current circunstances and with Jon gone fighting White Walkers, he will try to manipulate Sansa and the circunstances of this precarious new Northern unity.

Edited April 26, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, WearyTraveler said:

I've just realized I'm actually looking forward to LF's death more than I thought I would.  He's such a creep!

This. Although I don't like how the show gets there--LF deciding that Arya is a threat he needs to neutralize by getting Arya angry at Sansa (???), LF successfully convincing Arya that a letter that Sansa wrote while a hostage in KL should be taken at face value (???), Bran providing a deus ex machina revelation to Sansa (???)--I love, love, love the idea of Littlefinger being sentenced to death by Sansa and brutally executed in front of a completely indifferent audience. The show's been short on truly satisfying moments, but that would certainly qualify. 

On the other hand, if the Season 7 leaks are correct, this is yet another instance of one of D&D's writing problems. They focus on the big payoff moment they want, and then work backwards to figure out how to make it happen without bothering too much about the details, often by cobbling together a series of contrivances.

[Raachel2008]

Nah, Cersei is not Sansa's. Sansa already had her big vengeance/death - Ramsay - and, if spoilers are correct, she will have her Littlefinger momment too. No way she is the valonqr.

Personally, I think it should be Jamie or Tyrion, because the Lannisters  are so fucked up and so self-destructive that they have to implode and not explode. But I doubt D&D will resist the urge to have Arya killing another name in her list, which is something the media is crazy about. Either way, Tyrion/Jamie or Arya, it won't be Sansa.

Som  fucker at work updated his asshole status by sharing all the major spoilers, and all I can say is that we shouldn't miss Wall!Sex!  because it is not everyday that you see a new trope coming to life.

[OhOkayWhat]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

They focus on the big payoff moment they want, and then work backwards to figure out how to make it happen without bothering too much about the details, often by cobbling together a series of contrivances.

Disagree. I think Littlefinger notices the sisters have a lot of previous issues between them already. I suspect he also notices that Arya believes she is some kind of "bringer of Justice" (and Arya definitively is not that).

Littlefinger's plan is to isolate Sansa. Also it is very interesting the letter is a such illogical motive for Arya to act, because, as you said, Sansa wrote it under terrible coercion. The fact Arya does not notice or care about the circunstances of people she "judges", tells us a lot about the current state of Arya struggle with her own issues.

Also, Bran telling them is not exactly deus ex machina narrative. When that finally happens on screen, the audience will already know a year before about Bran powers. Therefore it is a bit predictable that he will tell his sisters about Littlefinger eventually.

Edited April 27, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[anamika]

On 25/4/2017 at 9:43 PM, ElizaD said:

 With Edmure and Robin alive, the theories that she ends up ruling the Riverlands or the Vale don't seem likely. To me Sansa's book storyline seems to be about learning to appreciate her Northern roots and going home with the Vale's army, and despite Bran's return she'll be acting as the Lady of Winterfell in season 7.

If she is not ruler of the Vale, how would she take the vale army North?

I don't see Sansa going North anytime in the books.  The North is currently impassable -the Vale army certainly can't get to Winterfell. One person on horseback can try getting North but Alys Karstark almost died getting to the wall/

In any case, I think Sansa's end game in the books is still undecided considering that GRRM has yet to decide whether to bring back the Hound or not. On the show, they seem to be making up stories for the character so that the actor has things to do. I think her ending will be decidedly different on the show and in the books (If we ever get them). In the books, I think her story will end with LF or the Hound if GRRM decides to bring him back.

It's hard to figure out Cersei's ending considering the prophecy - which requires both a queen and a valonqar. Considering that Tyrion and Dany will be most probably arriving together in Westeros, it points to them being the couple that takes down Cersei in the books - But the show seems to be pointing Dany north. I don't know if they will change anything as important as the characters who take down Cersei on the show - but they did give part of book Jon's story to Sansa in season 6.  They could very well give part of book Dany's story to Sansa as well.

There is also the fact that in the books, we will be getting another Dance of Dragons - which could imply Dany Vs Aegon - this could mean Aegon sits in KL after taking down Cersei. Does this mean it's Jaime and Margery that will be responsible for her downfall?

With Aegon missing, Varys siding with Dany, Tyrells wiped out and Doran out of the picture, I think the entire KL storyline has now been changed to accommodate Lena Headey's Cersei till the series finale.  With only 13 episodes left, they are going to take a lot of short cuts and combining whatever characters/actors are left to get a resolution of the plots. I think there's very little that's going to be close to what GRRM is planning to write except the endings of characters like Jon and Dany.

Edited April 27, 2017 by anamika

[Eyes High]

34 minutes ago, anamika said:

In any case, I think Sansa's end game in the books is still undecided considering that GRRM has yet to decide whether to bring back the Hound or not. On the show, they seem to be making up stories for the character so that the actor has things to do. I think her ending will be decidedly different on the show and in the books (If we ever get them). In the books, I think her story will end with LF or the Hound if GRRM decides to bring him back.

I believe GRRM has said (post-AFFC) that Sandor's coming back. I don't think he's made up his mind about what all he's going to do once he reenters the storyline, but I think GRRM is going to bring him back.

As for the show, I think GRRM has said that he doesn't know what the show is doing with Sansa's storyline (and griped about Jeyne Poole's omission), so while Sansa's endpoints are going to be the same in both the book and the show, the methods of getting there will likely differ. Nevertheless, if the show has closed the door on Sansa ending up with the Vale or the Riverlands, it seems safe to conclude that she won't end up with either in the books. Her likely endgames are looking pretty narrow at this point to my eye: Winterfell or dead.

 

Quote

I think there's very little that's going to be close to what GRRM is planning to write except the endings of characters like Jon and Dany.

I think the main characters--let's say Starks plus Lannister siblings plus Dany--will all have the same endgames as in the books. Everyone else may be a tossup, but that much will be the same. 

[OhOkayWhat]

15 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I don't think he's made up his mind about what all he's going to do once he reenters the storyline, but I think GRRM is going to bring him back.

I suspect D&D also did not know what to do with him until post-season 3.

[SeanC]

57 minutes ago, anamika said:

If she is not ruler of the Vale, how would she take the vale army North?

By persuading them to?  That's Littlefinger's whole plan, and could be accomplished any number of ways.

Quote

I don't see Sansa going North anytime in the books.  The North is currently impassable -the Vale army certainly can't get to Winterfell. One person on horseback can try getting North but Alys Karstark almost died getting to the wall.

When you consider the amount of story presumably yet to take place in the North, much of which would involve combat, I'd say we're going to see variations in the weather.  Otherwise, it's going to be pretty hard to have much happen there going forward.  I've debated on how/when any sort of northward expedition would take place, but I think it has to be considered, particularly since it seems like GRRM has been setting up a messy succession situation for the Starks.  But it could go any number of ways.

Quote

In any case, I think Sansa's end game in the books is still undecided considering that GRRM has yet to decide whether to bring back the Hound or not.

What makes you think GRRM is undecided about bringing back the Hound?

17 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I think the main characters--let's say Starks plus Lannister siblings plus Dany--will all have the same endgames as in the books. Everyone else may be a tossup, but that much will be the same. 

That's more or less my thought, though I'd name a few other characters who I'd consider assured of similar endings -- Brienne, for instance, since her resolution is presumably bound up very closely with whatever happens to Jaime.

Edited April 27, 2017 by SeanC

[OhOkayWhat]

27 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I think the main characters--let's say Starks plus Lannister siblings plus Dany--will all have the same endgames as in the books. Everyone else may be a tossup, but that much will be the same. 

 

8 minutes ago, SeanC said:

That's more or less my thought, though I'd name a few other characters who I'd consider assured of similar endings -- Brienne, for instance, since her resolution is presumably bound up very closely with whatever happens to Jaime.

 

I think it will be like this: certain characters will have 95% the same ending books and show. Other group will have 80% the same, another one only 50%, etc....

Edited April 27, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[anamika]

10 hours ago, Eyes High said:

As for the show, I think GRRM has said that he doesn't know what the show is doing with Sansa's storyline (and griped about Jeyne Poole's omission), so while Sansa's endpoints are going to be the same in both the book and the show, the methods of getting there will likely differ.

I still stand by my statement that Sansa's endpoints are going to be different on the show and the books because even GRRM does not know what her endpoint is going to be. Which is why the show is doing it's own thing with her.

9 hours ago, SeanC said:

What makes you think GRRM is undecided about bringing back the Hound?

From Winteriscoming's comments on the the season 6 DVD set commentaries,

Quote

Cogman admits that the Brother Ray character was a blend of a couple different characters Brienne meets in A Feast for Crows, which we figured. Interestingly, he also says that, while it’s hinted that the Hound is still alive in the books, they weren’t sure where George R.R. Martin was going to take it. “We took that kernel and fashioned this storyline.” So who knows if anything like this will show up in the books?

So, as far as last year, while there are hints in the books that the Hound is alive, GRRM has still not decided on what he is going to do with the character. Who is to say that GRRM will not end the Hound's story at Quite Isle?

Now, I think it's fair to assume that the Hound is a Sansa character with relevance only to her story and her endgame - so how does he even know her endpoint if he is not even sure what he is going to do with the Hound. The show only brought back the Hound because he is a popular character and they like the actor - nothing to do with his book plot. And considering how much they changed Sansa and LF's story, it's pretty evident that the show is doing it's own thing with Sansa's entire storyline and her subset of characters.

10 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I think the main characters--let's say Starks plus Lannister siblings plus Dany--will all have the same endgames as in the books. Everyone else may be a tossup, but that much will be the same. 

I think Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Arya and Bran will have the same endings because I am pretty sure that GRRM only knew their endings when he discussed the books with the showrunners way back in season 3 or 4. The writers have mostly stuck with these character trajectories even having Bran sit out a season rather than putting him in another plot.

I think Cersei's ending will be different mainly because she is a more important character on the show played by an actress they like - she will last till the very end on the show. I think she will die much sooner in the books - GRRM has promised several occupants on the IT and the Lannisters squatting there from book one to book seven makes no sense. To accommodate Cersei's longevity on the show they may change the story around her, like they are doing with Sansa - so the valonqar maybe different.

Jaime riding off to join the fight against the Others seems to match his book counterpart's journey - so he may have a similar ending or get something different - he's a far less important character than Cersei on the show as opposed to the books.

9 hours ago, SeanC said:

By persuading them to?  That's Littlefinger's whole plan, and could be accomplished any number of ways.

Certainly, she will have to persuade the ruler of the Vale - presumably Harry the Heir or SweetRobin (if he survives) that they should lend her the army to travel the impassable snows to Winterfell. My point was that the army was not her's to command.

9 hours ago, SeanC said:

When you consider the amount of story presumably yet to take place in the North, much of which would involve combat, I'd say we're going to see variations in the weather.  Otherwise, it's going to be pretty hard to have much happen there going forward.  I've debated on how/when any sort of northward expedition would take place, but I think it has to be considered, particularly since it seems like GRRM has been setting up a messy succession situation for the Starks.  But it could go any number of ways.

You mean to say that when Winter finally comes after 5 books, GRRM is suddenly going to change the weather and make it spring so that Sansa can take the Vale army North? Winter has Come for a specific reason - for the Others to cross the wall and do a lot of damage. I see people and armies moving south - KL has to get involved somehow. GRRM showed us the harsh winter stranding Stannis' men for a reason. Nothing is moving North in that weather.

Edited April 27, 2017 by anamika

[YaddaYadda]

8 hours ago, SeanC said:

When you consider the amount of story presumably yet to take place in the North, much of which would involve combat, I'd say we're going to see variations in the weather.  Otherwise, it's going to be pretty hard to have much happen there going forward.  I've debated on how/when any sort of northward expedition would take place, but I think it has to be considered, particularly since it seems like GRRM has been setting up a messy succession situation for the Starks.  But it could go any number of ways.

That's a plot I'm really looking forward to because it's such a mess, and different people know different things. As far as the army of the Vale goes, they are trained to fight in the snows and ice, so that's definitely a lot more than Stannis's southern army that is slowing down the progress of the northerners. I imagine that the Vale's army will be much better equipped.

Going through the books in more details, I'm not as sure that D&D have deviated all that much from the characters' endgame/whatever GRRM told them about specific characters.

[anamika]

1 hour ago, YaddaYadda said:

As far as the army of the Vale goes, they are trained to fight in the snows and ice, so that's definitely a lot more than Stannis's southern army that is slowing down the progress of the northerners.

That's show only stuff that LF spouted to Cersei to justify his taking the Vale army North. In the books, the Vale army is no more qualified to fight in the North than Stannis' army.

In fact I think that GRRM may make it harder for even the southern armies to move in the south considering that it's started snowing in KL. Ships may be the way for the armies to move if there are no storms like the ones that destroyed Stannis' fleet. And if the Others are not nearby - dead things in the water.

Edited April 27, 2017 by anamika

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

From Winteriscoming's comments on the the season 6 DVD set commentaries,

So, as far as last year, while there are hints in the books that the Hound is alive, GRRM has still not decided on what he is going to do with the character. Who is to say that GRRM will not end the Hound's story at Quite Isle?

That may refer to how he returns, specifically, not where he ends up.

Quote

I still stand by my statement that Sansa's endpoints are going to be different on the show and the books because even GRRM does not know what her endpoint is going to be. Which is why the show is doing it's own thing with her.

Sansa's the sixth-most important living character in the books.  I tend to doubt GRRM doesn't know the endpoint of her story after 25 years of work on this property.

Edited April 27, 2017 by SeanC

[anamika]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

That may refer to how he returns, specifically, not where he ends up.

Sansa's the sixth-most important living character in the books.  I tend to doubt GRRM doesn't know the endpoint of her story after 25 years of work on this property.

You mean, before season 6,  GRRM had not figured out how the Hound gets out of Quite Isle? After 25 years of work on this?

I think the statement means - "while it’s hinted that the Hound is still alive in the books, they weren’t sure where George R.R. Martin was going to take it (character and story)" - so they did their own version of the Hound plot. Maybe someone who has heard the commentaries can help?

It sounds like as far as last year he still had not decided what he was going to do with a character that is important to Sansa's endgame.  Whatever he does with the Hound - something that he has not decided yet - is going to change Sansa's story. Do you disagree?

Also:

Quote

After killing off so many fan favorite characters, what did it mean to bring back The Hound? Why did the gruff disfigured brute make such an impression and what are you most excited to explore with him?

Benioff & Weiss: So much of this comes down to the casting. I doubt we would have cared nearly as much for The Hound if anyone but Rory McCann was playing the part. What’s been exciting is seeing the glimmers of humanity behind The Hound’s scarred exterior. And then seeing him shove aside those glimmers, when necessary, and murk motherfuckers that need to be murked.

http://deadline.com/2016/08/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-emmys-interview-1201803698/

Their answer basically points to them bringing back the Hound because they like Rory. I doubt they would say something like 'we don't care about the Hound' if he was an important character in another important character's storyline.

Sansa being the 6th most important living character in the book is all fan speculation. She's got as many chapters as Catelyn Stark and GRRM may decide to kill her off in the next book along with LF. That's all we can really say about the character. She's a character who grew in the telling of the tale and gardener GRRM has yet to decide how her story ends.

GRRM has said:

Quote

Some major characters — yes, I always had plans, what Tyrion’s arc was gonna be through this, what Arya’s arc was gonna be through this, what Jon Snow’s arc is gonna be. I knew what the principal deaths were gonna be, and when they were coming. That would be the closest thing.

http://io9.gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-answers-our-toughest-song-of-ice-and-886133300

I don't think he has ever had such concrete ideas for Sansa who has mainly been used thus far in the books as a window into other characters and places. Her story will end either with LF or the Hound - if GRRM decides to bring him back into her plot.

The whole interview is interesting- it talks about how his writing choices affects his characters - like the 5 year time gap or lack of it. No mention of the 6th most important character in the books though.

But I think this discussion is veering off topic, so I will stop here.

Edited April 27, 2017 by anamika

[YaddaYadda]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

That's show only stuff that LF spouted to Cersei to justify his taking the Vale army North. In the books, the Vale army is no more qualified to fight in the North than Stannis' army.

This is exactly why I started a spreadsheet (for the books only). 

[Edith]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

You mean, before season 6 GRRM had not figured out how the Hound gets out of Quite Isle?

I think the statement means - "while it’s hinted that the Hound is still alive in the books, they weren’t sure where George R.R. Martin was going to take it (character and story)" - so they did their own version of the Hound plot. Maybe someone who has heard the commentaries can help?

It sounds like as far as last year he still had not decided what he was going to do with a character that is important to Sansa's endgame.  Whatever he does with the Hound - something that he has not decided yet - is going to change Sansa's story. Do you disagree?

Also:

http://deadline.com/2016/08/game-of-thrones-david-benioff-d-b-weiss-emmys-interview-1201803698/

Their answer basically points to them bringing back the Hound because they like Rory. I doubt they would say something like 'we don't care about the Hound' if he was an important character in another important character's storyline.

Sansa being the 6th most important living character in the book is all fan speculation. She's got as many chapters as Catelyn Stark and GRRM may decide to kill her off in the next book along with LF. That's all we can really say about the character. She's a character who grew in the telling of the tale and gardener GRRM has yet to decide how her story ends.

GRRM has said:

http://io9.gizmodo.com/george-r-r-martin-answers-our-toughest-song-of-ice-and-886133300

I don't think he has ever had such concrete ideas for Sansa who has mainly been used thus far in the books as a window into other characters and places. Her story will end either with LF or the Hound - if GRRM decides to bring him back into her plot.

But I think this discussion is veering off topic, so I will stop here.

You should read this post, the first one have answers that GRRM gave himself at Balticon. Under the hide contents.

http://asoiaf.westeros.org/index.php?/topic/137820-what-would-you-ask-the-grrm-updated/

Spoiler alert: he mentions Sansa as part of his big characters with the others 5 we already know. 

And about knowing the engame for the characters, he said: 

[question if he knows Arya's and Jon's fates]

"Tyrion, Arya, Jon, Sansa, you know, all of the Stark kids, and the major Lannisters, yeah."

Edited April 27, 2017 by Edith

[Stella]

Sorry didn't mean for this to be a "quote".

Quote

Edith thank you for posting that link. Very fun read and quite interesting too. Especially the coffee talk which certainly clarifies his feelings about that outline.

Edited April 27, 2017 by Stella

[OhOkayWhat]

3 hours ago, anamika said:

Their answer basically points to them bringing back the Hound because they like Rory. I doubt they would say something like 'we don't care about the Hound' if he was an important character in another important character's storyline.

He is important in other show-storyline: Arya's. In fact, she is the most important character in his storyline in GoT.

And that importance is related to Rory and Maisie as actors, I think. Why? Because once they realized (post season 3) the screen showed they worked very well together, and maybe also how popular they were as a "team"; they knew they had a more clear storyline for him and a reason to bring him back in the show.

In other words: their reason to bring him back is related to the actor but at the same time it is related to the plot too.

[GrailKing]

On 2017-4-25 at 0:52 PM, anamika said:

Pretty much. With Sansa warning Jon about Cersei and idiot Jon trusting Cersei to provide the troops.  Then Sansa has to go south to tackle Cersei and save the day after Cersei betrays them.

Jon's not an idiot (coming from a Sansa fan that I am )Sansa could not tell Jon what Ramsey would do because she didn't know except to say he's going to pull you in, which he did with Rickon.

They both had hard choices Jon attemped to save Rickon or let him die.

Sansa had to choose to let LF live or die and let Jon know about the Vale army she asked for.

I also think when Lord Umber threw down Shaggy's head that Sansa thought Rickon was already dead hence her threat to Ramsey before she left the parley; do I think she should have told Jon that night ,yes; why she didn't well it could be trust, or she just dosen't know he is coming and sometime at night she left to get him.

Would the outcome be different, nope because even if Jon decided to wait Ramsey would have used Rickon to push Jon in doing what Sansa said he was good at making the other side make the move he wanted, in Jon's case going out to rescue his brother alone and both getting killed.

Jon now needs to get more people to help fight and Sansa will tell him how she is, but Jon needs the people so he needs to try and Cersei will most likely betray them.

 

On 2017-4-25 at 0:52 PM, anamika said:

If Sansa is going to take down Cersei, should she not be a queen? - since the show more or less stayed with the same prophecy - You will be Queen. For a time. Then comes another. Younger and more beautiful. To cast you down.

Maybe the show is just going to ignore that.

Well it's left ambiguous the YMB does not necessarily have to be a Queen, and that part was left out of the show if I recall.  

[Meredith Quill]

Mod Note:

Reminder -

This topic is for Season 7 speculation and spoilers. It's gone off into Season 8/Endgame speculation for quite a bit now, please discuss anything beyond Season 7 in the appropriate topic.

Thanks.

[OhOkayWhat]

2 hours ago, GrailKing said:

Jon now needs to get more people to help fight and Sansa will tell him how she is, but Jon needs the people so he needs to try and Cersei will most likely betray them.

In season 7 we will see (if the leaks are true) that Jon is one of the few people than understand the severity and urgency of the situation. Therefore he will try to convince Cercei and anyone about the problem, even if he knows about the possibility of being betrayed.

[Eyes High]

16 hours ago, OhOkayWhat said:

In season 7 we will see (if the leaks are true) that Jon is one of the few people than understand the severity and urgency of the situation. Therefore he will try to convince Cercei and anyone about the problem, even if he knows about the possibility of being betrayed.

I'm thinking Jon will reason, no matter how evil and untrustworthy Cersei is, she still wants to ensure her own survival and therefore will assist in defeating the WW, because to do otherwise would guarantee her own demise. He's wrong, of course, but he wouldn't be the first person, or even the first Stark, to underestimate Cersei.

[OhOkayWhat]

On Saturday, April 29, 2017 at 10:50 AM, Eyes High said:

I'm thinking Jon will reason, no matter how evil and untrustworthy Cersei is, she still wants to ensure her own survival and therefore will assist in defeating the WW, because to do otherwise would guarantee her own demise. He's wrong, of course, but he wouldn't be the first person, or even the first Stark, to underestimate Cersei.

I think Jon is more or less aware that he can find selfishness and senselessness in some people, but he will try to convince them anyway. Because there is not a better option. That is one of the reasons I like the "bring a Wight" mission in season 7, it makes a lot of sense.

Edited April 30, 2017 by OhOkayWhat

[ElizaD]

I noticed that the first footage we saw of Jon in late 2016 looks like it's from the same set as the new photo of Sansa and Littlefinger. 7x02, maybe? Littlefinger is trying to cause trouble but Jon makes Sansa happy when he tells her she's going to be in charge, and then Littlefinger follows him when he goes to the crypt (as leaked/guessed based on the Jon photo)?

[FemmyV]

Re: Cersei/Sansa: While D and D have an awful track record of people sharing pertinent information, one might think that Jamie would share with Cersei, what he learns from Olenna, about Joffrey's death. ie, who is, and who was not, responsible for it.

At some point, Cersei should stop giving a rat's ass about Sansa, unless she interprets her (Sansa's) being with Petr as a sign of complicity, on that end.

Meh. Getting tired of specs. Bring on the show!

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, FemmyV said:

Re: Cersei/Sansa: While D and D have an awful track record of people sharing pertinent information, one might think that Jamie would share with Cersei, what he learns from Olenna, about Joffrey's death. ie, who is, and who was not, responsible for it.

We don't know that Olenna's admission of involvement will necessarily exculpate Tyrion or Sansa.

[FemmyV]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

We don't know that Olenna's admission of involvement will necessarily exculpate Tyrion or Sansa.

99% chance she'll clear Tyrion. 75% Sansa. ... but the Petyr connection is tricksy.

Edited May 10, 2017 by FemmyV

[GrailKing]

9 hours ago, FemmyV said:

99% chance she'll clear Tyrion. 75% Sansa. ... but the Petyr connection is tricksy.

she'll clear both of them, but Cersei won't give a damn, she hates Tyrion to no end, she hates the Starks as much and Sansa  could be seen by her as another YMB....

[Clawdette]

Did we ever get consensus on whether there will be a scene with Rhaegar and Lyanna?  And the possible casting of Rhaeger?   After seeing Tom Hopper in Northmen: a Viking Saga, I think he'd be a good fit (although his height might work against him).

[BlackberryJam]

Tom Hopper is the new Dickon Tarly.

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, Clawdette said:

Did we ever get consensus on whether there will be a scene with Rhaegar and Lyanna?  And the possible casting of Rhaeger?   After seeing Tom Hopper in Northmen: a Viking Saga, I think he'd be a good fit (although his height might work against him).

According to leaks, there will be a brief scene showing Rhaegar and Lyanna's wedding where they recite their vows in front of a septon. No idea who was cast for Rhaegar, but I can confidently state that no matter which actor they found, the fans will still complain about him not being hot enough.

Also, we'll get a repeat of the Ned/Lyanna scene in 6x10, except this time we'll get to hear everything Lyanna said.

[YaddaYadda]

There was that singer who posted that he may or may not have been on Game of Thrones back in September or October, I think? He had the bleached blond hair going, so who knows.

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Also, we'll get a repeat of the Ned/Lyanna scene in 6x10, except this time we'll get to hear everything Lyanna said.

We should have a poll for what Jon's birth name really is (actually, no). Going with Aemon on this one. 

I've been thinking lately just how awkward some of the reunions we're going to see will be for some characters. 

Edited May 11, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[Eyes High]

7 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

There was that singer who posted that he may or may not have been on Game of Thrones back in September or October, I think? He had the bleached blond hair going, so who knows.

We should have a poll for what Jon's birth name really is (actually, no). Going with Aemon on this one. 

I've been thinking lately just how awkward some of the reunions we're going to see will be for some characters. 

I expect GOT to cast some hot British guy we've never heard of for Rhaegar, if all he's doing is reciting some vows. As for the singer (Devin Oliver), who was born and raised in the States, they're normally loath to cast Americans, with two notable and understandable exceptions that I can think of (Peter Dinklage and Jason Momoa).

As for Jon's real name, I hope it will be Aemon, but I'm expecting it to be Aegon due to the spoilers.

[Clawdette]

Ed Sheeran - one singer - is playing someone Arya encounters in her travels.  I missed the info about Devin Oliver.

Yes, I see on IMDB that Tom Hopper has a different one-off.

Edited May 11, 2017 by Clawdette

[YaddaYadda]

37 minutes ago, Clawdette said:

Yes, I see on IMDB that Tom Hopper has a different one-off.

Doesn't end well for this character.

42 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

I expect GOT to cast some hot British guy we've never heard of for Rhaegar, if all he's doing is reciting some vows. As for the singer (Devin Oliver), who was born and raised in the States, they're normally loath to cast Americans, with two notable and understandable exceptions that I can think of (Peter Dinklage and Jason Momoa).

Jason Momoa didn't speak a word of English, so I think that might have gone a long way with the casting. Also, Jason Momoa.

Edited May 11, 2017 by YaddaYadda

[Eyes High]

43 minutes ago, YaddaYadda said:

Jason Momoa didn't speak a word of English, so I think that might have gone a long way with the casting. Also, Jason Momoa.

Indeed. Hee.

I'd be shocked--shocked!--if the British actor picked for Rhaegar wound up being someone most North American fans would recognize. I'd never heard of Aisling Franciosi (Lyanna) until I looked her up on IMDB, although I suppose it's my fault for never getting into The Fall, which is supposedly very good.

I think Nina Gold will work hard to get Rhaegar right. To me, TV Lyanna was perfect. Nina Gold can be very good at casting actors playing relatives who credibly look related to each other: Olenna/Margaery, Dany/Viserys, Robert/Gendry, etc. I wonder if she will try to cast a Rhaegar who resembles Kit Harington. I know that Sean Bean and Kit looked nothing alike, but Rhaegar's just a one-off (or so I assume), so the casting department can place more weight on his resemblance to Kit. (Also, I believe Sean was cast before Kit, so I guess they just decided to handwave Kit's lack of resemblance to Sean.)

Edited May 11, 2017 by Eyes High

[WearyTraveler]

It seems they went to great lengths to keep the name of the actor playing Rhaegar secret.  They must have made people sign confidentiality agreements just for auditioning, because I don't recall hearing even the tiniest peep about it. If we knew who all auditioned, we might have an idea of what they were going for, but AFAIK, we don't know that.

I think British actor Danny Mac is really hot and could be a good Rhaegar (with the right wig, off course) but I'm not all that familiar with British actors, to be honest.  Tom Mison would be awesome, I have no doubt, and he looks great with long hair, but I think he's a bit slight of build for Rhaegar, and I don't know if his filming schedule with Sleepy Hollow would have allowed him to film anything for GoT.

[anamika]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I think Nina Gold will work hard to get Rhaegar right. To me, TV Lyanna was perfect.

I thought Arthur Dayne was perfect as well. He captured the character very well. I know several folks who had issues with young Ned, but I thought he was fine.

That silver hair wig is going to reduce the hotness levels for whomever is going to play Rhaegar IMO. GRRM's idea of what constitutes hotness is rather different from mine. Book Dario's three pronged blue beard comes to mind.

Maybe we won't even see the actor's face. According to the leaks I think we just get a glimpse of them reciting vows. Maybe we see a shot from the back of them in front of a septon.

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, WearyTraveler said:

It seems they went to great lengths to keep the name of the actor playing Rhaegar secret.  They must have made people sign confidentiality agreements just for auditioning, because I don't recall hearing even the tiniest peep about it. If we knew who all auditioned, we might have an idea of what they were going for, but AFAIK, we don't know that.

Exactly. We didn't hear a peep about Lyanna's casting until 6x10 aired.

 

Quote

I think British actor Danny Mac is really hot and could be a good Rhaegar (with the right wig, off course) but I'm not all that familiar with British actors, to be honest. Tom Mison would be awesome, I have no doubt, and he looks great with long hair, but I think he's a bit slight of build for Rhaegar, and I don't know if his filming schedule with Sleepy Hollow would have allowed him to film anything for GoT.

I wonder what age range they're going for. Book Rhaegar was seven years older than Book Lyanna. Aisling Franciosi (TV Lyanna) is 24. Will they go for someone the same age or for someone slightly older? That might dictate where they go with Rhaegar.

 

31 minutes ago, anamika said:

I thought Arthur Dayne was perfect as well. He captured the character very well. I know several folks who had issues with young Ned, but I thought he was fine.

You mean Arthur Daaaaaaaaayum? Yes, he was amazing. Robert Aramayo did very well as Ned, and I definitely saw a resemblance.

 

Quote

That silver hair wig is going to reduce the hotness levels for whomever is going to play Rhaegar IMO.

I dunno, I thought Harry Lloyd owned his wig, but then Harry Lloyd just oozes poshness.

 

Quote

Maybe we won't even see the actor's face. According to the leaks I think we just get a glimpse of them reciting vows. Maybe we see a shot from the back of them in front of a septon.

Heh, that would be worth it if only for what I can imagine will be mass outrage at being denied a look at Rhaegar's face.

[ElizaD]

2 hours ago, Eyes High said:

I wonder what age range they're going for. Book Rhaegar was seven years older than Book Lyanna. Aisling Franciosi (TV Lyanna) is 24. Will they go for someone the same age or for someone slightly older? That might dictate where they go with Rhaegar.

Since it sounds like the only version of R+L we'll get on the show is the quick one (married + had Jon) without the complications (he's an older married man? what about Elia? even if Lyanna agreed to run away did she agree to never get in touch with her brother and stay in the tower under guard?), I think Rhaegar is going to be a hot twentysomething and not someone who's clearly a bit older than Lyanna, for maximum romance that drives home that these are Jon's parents and avoids any extra questions like we got after 6x10 when some non-readers wondered if Ned was supposed to be the father.

[Eyes High]

A Susan in the WOTW comments section has claimed that THE Vanessa Redgrave is currently in negotiations to play an older version of a major character in the last season of GOT (apparently only needing a few days to film). Given Redgrave's appearance and considerable height, this is likely an older version of Sansa. The crazy part is that Vanessa Redgrave has already played an older version of a Sophie Turner character, in The Thirteenth Tale.

There have been hoaxes before, so grain of salt, but what a delicious tidbit if true!

Edited May 12, 2017 by Eyes High

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

A Susan in the WOTW comments section has claimed that THE Vanessa Redgrave is currently in negotiations to play an older version of a major character in the last season of GOT (apparently only needing a few days to film). Given Redgrave's appearance and considerable height, this is likely an older version of Sansa. The crazy part is that Vanessa Redgrave has already played an older version of a Sophie Turner character, in The Thirteenth Tale.

There have been hoaxes before, so grain of salt, but what a delicious tidbit if true!

I just re-watched Camelot last night and I saw this at WOTW, being a Sansa fan and Redgrave family fan I be thrilled, I knew VR and ST are close in height, did not know about the TV movie bit though.

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, GrailKing said:

I just re-watched Camelot last night and I saw this at WOTW, being a Sansa fan and Redgrave family fan I be thrilled, I knew VR and ST are close in height, did not know about the TV movie bit though.

Assuming this bit of news can be trusted...

Vanessa Redgrave is 80, so if the age is a match for what I'm guessing will be a flashforward epilogue, then the epilogue will take over 60 years after the end of the current events, meaning that characters who are over 40 in the current timeline who survive the war would likely all be dead, unless they live to be over 100 as Aemon did. 

Vanessa Redgrave is a big name. I wonder if the show will try to find other big names for the future versions of the other surviving Starklings, assuming they'll also show up. Lots of possible choices for Arya and/or Daenerys, if they're willing to fudge the requirement that there be any kind of resemblance. There aren't that many distinguished British actors over 80 running around, and Jon's actor (assuming Jon lives to a ripe old age) would have to be around that age. Maybe Patrick Stewart, Michael Gambon, Ian McKellen or Derek Jacobi (all in their late 70s) would be into it. They're not above genre material. Christopher Lee's far too tall, heh.

[SeanC]

1 hour ago, Eyes High said:

Christopher Lee's far too tall, heh.

Also far too dead, sadly.

[Lemuria]

Quote

Also far too dead, sadly.

Maybe he's only mostly dead.  :)

[Eyes High]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

Also far too dead, sadly.

Right. Shoot.

It seems like it's a bit early for the show to be lining up S7 roles. Aren't they still writing it? I guess they could have known for some time that they were going to do a particular scene and are trying to get out ahead of actors' schedules.

[GrailKing]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

Assuming this bit of news can be trusted...

Vanessa Redgrave is 80, so if the age is a match for what I'm guessing will be a flashforward epilogue, then the epilogue will take over 60 years after the end of the current events, meaning that characters who are over 40 in the current timeline who survive the war would likely all be dead, unless they live to be over 100 as Aemon did. 

Vanessa Redgrave is a big name. I wonder if the show will try to find other big names for the future versions of the other surviving Starklings, assuming they'll also show up. Lots of possible choices for Arya and/or Daenerys, if they're willing to fudge the requirement that there be any kind of resemblance. There aren't that many distinguished British actors over 80 running around, and Jon's actor (assuming Jon lives to a ripe old age) would have to be around that age. Maybe Patrick Stewart, Michael Gambon, Ian McKellen or Derek Jacobi (all in their late 70s) would be into it. They're not above genre material. Christopher Lee's far too tall, heh.

Assuming Sansa and Arya are in their mid teens to 19 years, VR could very well be an old Sansa or some other close to show Sansa's age, and assuming the book and show ending could be the same just a different road taken, Sansa or Arya or whom ever could be late 60's early 70's.

Bran if he survives late sixties, Jamie,Cersie, Tyrion, Danny, Jon, Missandie, etc could live, Sandor is in his thirties in book, he could survive, Brienne also, trying to remember who's over 40 in book or show.

Edited May 13, 2017 by GrailKing