Season 7: Speculation and Spoilers Discussion

[SeanC]

10 minutes ago, WearyTraveler said:

Jon and Dany doing the deed at the same time the Wall falls is not necessarily cause and effect.  

The leak is explicit that it's not.  The Wall falls because the Night King uses zombie Viserion to destroy it, supposedly.  The two scenes are just intercut.  "Fucking the Wall down" has just become a fandom joke about it (though my personally favourite is referring to Jon's penis as the real Horn of Winter).

[bunnyblue]

26 minutes ago, Edith said:

Also the leak doesn't mention if the rest of wildlings are with Tormund in Eastwach because if that is the case, does that mean they all gonna die went the wall falls (melts?)? And Jon is not going to be there to fight with them like he promised...

Oh Gods, that would terrible. I don't want Tormund to die, but it's not looking good. And it if he's manning Eastwatch (what happened to Cotter Pyke?), then chances are there are many Wildling fighters with him. I would hope Jon doesn't also send the non-combatants to the Wall and instead leaves them somewhere safe (Winterfell would be preferable). For Tormund's sake, I hope only part of the Wall falls and it is nowhere near Eastwatch. But, then, I guess that would mean Edd is screwed.

7 minutes ago, SeanC said:

though my personally favourite is referring to Jon's penis as the real Horn of Winter).

Bwahahaha!! That's a good one.

[Edith]

28 minutes ago, bunnyblue said:

Oh Gods, that would terrible. I don't want Tormund to die, but it's not looking good. And it if he's manning Eastwatch (what happened to Cotter Pyke?), then chances are there are many Wildling fighters with him. I would hope Jon doesn't also send the non-combatants to the Wall and instead leaves them somewhere safe (Winterfell would be preferable). For Tormund's sake, I hope only part of the Wall falls and it is nowhere near Eastwatch. But, then, I guess that would mean Edd is screwed.

Bwahahaha!! That's a good one.

The leak says only a chunk of the wall falls but seriously how long can the WW take to cross the north? And with a Dragon?! I think it would be illogical for anyone close to the wall to be alive when Team Dany gets to Eastwach. 

Winterfell should be safe, especially with Bran there. 

Oh and btw this is my personal opinion but Rhaegar is the biggest douche to ever exist! (I hope the annulment is only show version) 

Edit. I forgot...Robb the KITN who lost the North and Jon the KITN who brought the ultimate destruction to the North (well he's not king when it happens but you know..)

Edited November 5, 2016 by Edith

[Eyes High]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

I was going to say we'll have to wait until the episode airs to get the sex scene confirmed, but on reflection, those sex scene spoiler people will presumaby report that in advance too (hands down the weirdest reliable spoiler source I have ever consulted as part of a TV show fandom).

Oh, yeah, the nudity spoiler folks. For the past two seasons, the only 100% reliable spoiler folks have been WOTW, L7R, and...a nudity spoiler site. Weird shit indeed.

Quote

"Fucking the Wall down" has just become a fandom joke about it (though my personally favourite is referring to Jon's penis as the real Horn of Winter).

Hahaha! 

[WearyTraveler]

1 hour ago, SeanC said:

(though my personally favourite is referring to Jon's penis as the real Horn of Winter).

Maybe we need look no further... :D

[SimoneS]

3 hours ago, Edith said:

Seriously what they (D&D) were thinking?!! 

That it will be bloody good drama. I can't wait.

[Edith]

14 minutes ago, SimoneS said:

That it will be bloody good drama. I can't wait.

For you...

For me it sounds like Days of our live: Westeros Version without forgetting XOXO Winterfell plot..

[OhOkayWhat]

If the fans (at least lots of them) had written the scripts of the next season, it could have been sooooo boring and predictable: Jon talking and talking and taaaalking with North Lords all the season. Dany easy conquest with Euron-Cercei becoming just a lil inconvenience. Jaime doing.....hmm... nothing, I guess. Sansa and Petyr plotting together with lots of mwahhhahhaas. Oh and Sandor playing generic Beast#4 with Beauty-Sansa all the season.

Still, there are some things I do not like about the leaks if they are totally true.

Also, I noticed we do not know much about Arya plot next season...but I guess I cannot have everything.

 

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

 The Wall falls because the Night King uses zombie Viserion to destroy it, supposedly.  The two scenes are just intercut

Zombie Viserion will be awesome!. Will it be the first time we will see an Ice-magic and Fire-magic fusion?

Edited November 6, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[SimoneS]

36 minutes ago, Edith said:

For you...

For me it sounds like Days of our live: Westeros Version without forgetting XOXO Winterfell plot..

When was this show ever not a soap opera? 

[Edith]

12 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

He If the fans (at least lots of them) had written the scripts of the next season, it could have been sooooo boring and predictable:

Also, I noticed we do not know much about Arya plot next season...but I guess I cannot have everything.

Well you gotta admit that Cersei being pregnant is something that sounds written by a Fan and not a professional writer or at least not of a Emmy winning tv show.. 

We do know about Arya: she kills the whole male line of Freys while using Walder Frey face (I guess this is how d&d bring LS plot to the show). She has a quick reunion with Nymeria, where she realizes that she's no ones pet anymore, she arrives at Winterfell at episode 4 and reunites with Sansa and Bran and then has a lobotomy and fall for Littlefingers trap, because aparently all Starks kids are stupid, and delivers Sansa's orders by executing Littlefinger. 

[anamika]

1 hour ago, SimoneS said:

That it will be bloody good drama. I can't wait.

Yeah, I at least , don't have an issue with a lot of the spoilers. I like most of what I am hearing except for the Cersei and Arya stuff.

49 minutes ago, OhOkayWhat said:

If the fans (at least lots of them) had written the scripts of the next season, it could have been sooooo boring and predictable: Jon talking and talking and taaaalking with North Lords all the season. Dany easy conquest with Euron-Cercei becoming just a lil inconvenience. Jaime doing.....hmm... nothing, I guess. Sansa and Petyr plotting together with lots of mwahhhahhaas. Oh and Sandor playing generic Beast#4 with Beauty-Sansa all the season.

LOL! Yes. Maybe that's why I like the current Dragonstone/Wight plots. After the rather horrid season 6 North plot and all the speculation about Jon playing house and getting manipulated by LF, I am glad that Jon has escaped that plot to do better and more interesting stuff. And I LOVE that Dany is finally getting actively involved in the Westeros plot.

I am only disappointed that Cersei continues to stick around. As I mentioned earlier, I have gotten rather bored of her. But I guess, it will be interesting to see the new dynamics when she meets with Jon, Dany etc. Disappointing story for Arya as well. Maisie does not seem to be filming much.  Oh well, at least we will be hopefully getting an Arya-Bran reunion and her restoring the Tullys at RR.

2 hours ago, Edith said:

Edit. I forgot...Robb the KITN who lost the North and Jon the KITN who brought the ultimate destruction to the North (well he's not king when it happens but you know..)

Wait, what?! Did I miss something in the leaks? How does Jon destroy the North?

Edited November 6, 2016 by anamika

[Wouter]

3 hours ago, Edith said:

 

I wonder if this is what d&d said about Jon having to deal with selfish individuals. 

 

People immediately took this to mean Sansa (on side with LF), when Cersei and co were always a more reasonable option in the grand scheme of things. Sansa and Jon were hardly going to be enemies, they share all the same enemies (including LF, though neither is really aware of that - yet).

What continues to perplex me though, is the lack of any movement on the connection between Tyrion and dragons. Did I/(we?) misread the apparent signs in the books? Is this a change between books and show? Are the leaks incomplete? Is it something for S8, albeit minus Viserion? I wonder...

[anamika]

13 minutes ago, Wouter said:

What continues to perplex me though, is the lack of any movement on the connection between Tyrion and dragons. Did I/(we?) misread the apparent signs in the books? Is this a change between books and show? Are the leaks incomplete? Is it something for S8, albeit minus Viserion? I wonder...

Connections between Tyrion and dragons always baffled me. If I am not wrong, that theory hinges on Tyrion being a secret Targ? That's one too many secret Targs. Other than Tyrion having a fascination for dragons, I don't think there is any connection between them. The show simply used him to release the dragons and give Dinklage something to do while in Essos.

[SimoneS]

49 minutes ago, anamika said:

I am only disappointed that Cersei continues to stick around. As I mentioned earlier, I have gotten rather bored of her. But I guess, it will be interesting to see the new dynamics when she meets with Jon, Dany etc.

Cersei's continued survival is annoying. I fully expect Cersei to be alive in the series finale. She is so one note that I would be surprised if she does anything new or interesting when she encounters Jon and Daenerys. The only scene I am looking forward to is her reunion with Tyrion which promises to be entertaining, full of snark and vicious insults.

[OhOkayWhat]

54 minutes ago, Edith said:

Well you gotta admit that Cersei being pregnant is something that sounds written by a Fan and not a professional writer or at least not of a Emmy winning tv show.. 

Yeah, I kinda agree. I mean, it makes sense she is pregnant if she had sex last season, and people suggested it could be used to make her to doubt the prophesy and to make Jaime remain close to her... but I still have serious doubts about how that plot will work as narrative.

 

1 hour ago, Edith said:

We do know about Arya: she kills the whole male line of Freys while using Walder Frey face (I guess this is how d&d bring LS plot to the show). She has a quick reunion with Nymeria, where she realizes that she's no ones pet anymore, she arrives at Winterfell at episode 4

That is my point...Frey stuff and Nymeria? maybe 10 minutes on screen...what about the rest of her first 3 episodes? only 10 minutes? maybe we still do know ALL the stuff of her season 7 storyline.

 

1 hour ago, Edith said:

because aparently all Starks kids are stupid

I disagree here, Stark kids are not stupid, they have their weaknesses, and Petyr uses people's weaknesses. In Arya case, her weakness is she imagines herself as a Bringer of Justice or something like that, and that is only a lie that she is telling herself.

[OhOkayWhat]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

I am only disappointed that Cersei continues to stick around. As I mentioned earlier, I have gotten rather bored of her

I think they keep her because she is needed for the Game of Thrones theme in the show in the season 8. Season 8 cannot be just the Long Night plot, and there are lots of no-warrior characters that they need to use in the show.

[WindyNights]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Connections between Tyrion and dragons always baffled me. If I am not wrong, that theory hinges on Tyrion being a secret Targ? That's one too many secret Targs. Other than Tyrion having a fascination for dragons, I don't think there is any connection between them. The show simply used him to release the dragons and give Dinklage something to do while in Essos.

Signs have been almost as blatant as R + L=J. 

Tyrion's dragon dreams, being as tall as a king, references to Tyrion being a gargoyle (Gargoyles are stone Dragons), Tyrion's unusual eyes and hair (white blonde and black hair and a green eye and a black eye), Aerys bring former lovers with Joanna, Aerys being in the same place as Joanna when Tyrion was conceived, Tyrion killing his mother in childbirth like the other two Targs (Jon and Dany), the only POV from AGOT that isn't a Stark or Targ, Moqorro seeing a vision of him in the middle of dragons, Tyrion's fascination with dragons etc. 

The third head of the dragon is either Tyrion or Bran. 

 

The show never ever alluded to the three heads of the dragons so they're not going to go for it.

[SeanC]

2 hours ago, anamika said:

Connections between Tyrion and dragons always baffled me. If I am not wrong, that theory hinges on Tyrion being a secret Targ?

No, it doesn't (though Tyrion = Targaryen theories tend to presume that it's necessary to be a Targaryen to ride a dragon).

[SeanC]

Aidan Gillen was photographed at an event a few days ago sans moustache, so he's probably not filming in the next few weeks.

[ElizaD]

5 hours ago, WindyNights said:

The show never ever alluded to the three heads of the dragons so they're not going to go for it.

They won't go for it because, despite all the fandom theories, it now looks it'll turn out to be another case of prophecy screwing with you, misleading not just Rhaegar who thought the riders would be Rhaenys/Aegon/kid #3 but the readers who thought they would be Dany/Jon/main character #3. I'd imagine that "who gets to ride a dragon" was one of the first questions the showrunners asked after "who gets the throne" (and they got GRRM's approval by offering the correct answer to "who is Jon's mother"). If they heard that the dragonrider is not going to be Bran Stark or Tyrion Lannister (son of Tywin and Joanna, since there's no mystery and nothing left unexplained by his parents being who we've always been told they are), but the Night's King or someone else with weird dragon-stealing magic, it wouldn't be necessary to devote TV time to a prophecy twist the vast majority of viewers won't remember.

IMO the changes to Dany's season 2 vision, which they filmed five years ago, now look like a sign that the showrunners already knew the rough outline of what's going to happen in season 7: she looks at the snowy throne but then turns away because winter must be dealt with, and now the leak says she goes north with secret Targaryen heir Jon even though Cersei still has King's Landing.

[Edith]

12 hours ago, anamika said:

Wait, what?! Did I miss something in the leaks? How does Jon destroy the North?

How is not Jon and Dany fault that the NK uses Viserion to bring down a chunk of the wall?

[anamika]

8 hours ago, SeanC said:

Aidan Gillen was photographed at an event a few days ago sans moustache, so he's probably not filming in the next few weeks.

How long does it take to grow a LF moustache?

41 minutes ago, Edith said:

How is not Jon and Dany fault that the NK uses Viserion to bring down a chunk of the wall?

Does Jon take Viserion North?

And what is the point of the dragons if they can never be deployed against the WW?

Edited November 6, 2016 by anamika

[SeanC]

57 minutes ago, anamika said:

How long does it take to grow a LF moustache?

1-2 weeks, probably.

[OhOkayWhat]

2 hours ago, SeanC said:

3 hours ago, anamika said:

How long does it take to grow a LF moustache?

1-2 weeks, probably.

That is what the LF Moustache wants you to think! ......*plot thickens*

Edited November 6, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[Wouter]

18 hours ago, anamika said:

Connections between Tyrion and dragons always baffled me. If I am not wrong, that theory hinges on Tyrion being a secret Targ? That's one too many secret Targs. Other than Tyrion having a fascination for dragons, I don't think there is any connection between them. The show simply used him to release the dragons and give Dinklage something to do while in Essos.

As Sean already responded, it is the other way round: the theory that Tyrion is a bastard of the Mad King Aerys hinges on Tyrion being a dragonrider. There are quite some people on various online forum who expect Tyrion to ride a dragon, but who dislike the idea that Tyrion may not be the son of Tywin.

Since there are hints that, warging (by Bran) aside, Targaryen blood is a prerequisite (though not an automatic qualification!) to be a dragonrider, the Targaryen theory is a follow-up to the Tyrion-as-dragonrider theory. Though some people think this is propaganda and not needed, hence those people don't make the leap to Tyrion having Targ blood even if they believe he will ride a dragon (in the books).

As you write yourself, Tyrion has a fascination for dragons. This was clearer in the books than in the show so far, and usually the author puts this in for a reason. And Tyrion's position in the middle of everything has been stressed in the books, too (Windynights listed some of those indicators, albeit in the context of the Targ bastard theory).

The show hadn't put emphasis on this (allthough they did stress Tywin's "you're not my son" motive quite a bit) until the scene in S6 where Tyrion freed the dragons, in a very intimate way with a monologue explaining how fascinated he used to be by Dragons. At the time, I thought this was a sure indicator that they were preparing the ground, but so far this scene has no clear follow-up.

It if was merely to give Dinklage something to do, then those are expensive minutes with that kind of CGI. There was clear filler for Dinklage in S6, but easily recognisable as such, which was not the case with the dragon scene.

And if it was merely to release the dragons: this could have been done by Tyrion ordering Grey Worm to have his men do it, or better yet by Dany doing it herself after her return. The dragons didn't really do or change anything until her return. There was no need to "translate" a book-action by Quentyn to a show-action by Tyrion.

Edited November 6, 2016 by Wouter

[SeanC]

12 minutes ago, Wouter said:

The show hadn't put emphasis on this (allthough they did stress Tywin's "you're not my son" motive quite a bit) until the scene in S6 where Tyrion freed the dragons, in a very intimate way with a monologue explaining how fascinated he used to be by Dragons. At the time, I thought this was a sure indicator that they were preparing the ground, but so far this scene has no clear follow-up.

It if was merely to give Dinklage something to do, then those are expensive minutes with that kind of CGI. There was clear filler for Dinklage in S6, but easily recognisable as such, which was not the case with the dragon scene.

And if it was merely to release the dragons: this could have been done by Tyrion ordering Grey Worm to have its men do it, or better yet by Dany doing it herself after her return. The dragons didn't really do or change anything until her return. There was no need to "translate" a book-action by Quentyn to a show-action by Tyrion.

The scene also emphasized that the dragons were suddenly intelligent and reasonable creatures, which I guess sets up them working flawlessly with Dany later on in the season.  Taming the dragons seems like it's meant to be a big story point in the books, but in the show they just kind of tamed themselves.

[Wouter]

True. One season earlier, Jorah had stressed that they are wild animals, difficult to control. But since S6, they seem to be quite docile - for Dany and Tyrion, anyway.

[FemmyV]

On 11/2/2016 at 10:16 AM, GrailKing said:

Quote

Wow! people hating on Sansa because Arya is in her story line, people, they were always in each other's story line.

Not hating Sansa because Arya is in her storyline. Hating Sansa because after having waited 4-5 fucking seasons for Arya to return to the Stark fold for action, her first, main task is propping up Sansa/Sophie.

 

On 11/2/2016 at 4:18 PM, OhOkayWhat said:

Quote

I really do not like to use the word "crackship", it sounds, at least to me, like part of ship-drama or ship-wars discussions.

On 11/2/2016 at 6:30 PM, Eyes High said:

Quote

When Sansa has a dream about Jon in bed with her, compares other men to Jon, and starts having increasingly detailed fantasies about having kissed Jon, and when GRRM says "there's something there" with Jon and Sansa, then we can call it a thing. Until then...crackship.

I can remember times when it was impossible to have spec conversations about one subplot or another without things getting wildly off track (not as bad here on Previously TV as it was on TWOP) by JonSa shippers who were like, "no, that can't happen ...." because the idea under spec interfered/conflicted with that relationship's likelihood. It's one thing to spec because it's what you'd like to see, another to insist with no basis for it in the story, as told, and if someone is going to halt conversation that doesn't fit their view, that someone deserves to be reminded they're on crack. Loudly and often.

On 11/4/2016 at 8:24 AM, Eyes High said:

Quote

She gives birth to a baby she names Drogo. Boom. (Dunno know Jon would feel about Dany naming his kid after her ex, but...)

After the way Cat treated him for being Ned's bastard son, I'd imagine Jon would be a lot more patient about allowing Dany a reminder of her first love/husband.

 

On 11/4/2016 at 0:17 PM, Eyes High said:

Quote

Arya's the last living Stark who hasn't had any screen time with Tyrion, but given how all the living characters seem to be on a collision course in the leaks, that Arya/Tyrion scene is a matter of when, not if, even if it looks like it won't arrive before Season 8.

It would be funny if they never met, considering some of her first lines were "where's the Imp?!" in S01E01.

[WindyNights]

10 hours ago, ElizaD said:

They won't go for it because, despite all the fandom theories, it now looks it'll turn out to be another case of prophecy screwing with you, misleading not just Rhaegar who thought the riders would be Rhaenys/Aegon/kid #3 but the readers who thought they would be Dany/Jon/main character #3. I'd imagine that "who gets to ride a dragon" was one of the first questions the showrunners asked after "who gets the throne" (and they got GRRM's approval by offering the correct answer to "who is Jon's mother"). If they heard that the dragonrider is not going to be Bran Stark or Tyrion Lannister (son of Tywin and Joanna, since there's no mystery and nothing left unexplained by his parents being who we've always been told they are), but the Night's King or someone else with weird dragon-stealing magic, it wouldn't be necessary to devote TV time to a prophecy twist the vast majority of viewers won't remember.

IMO the changes to Dany's season 2 vision, which they filmed five years ago, now look like a sign that the showrunners already knew the rough outline of what's going to happen in season 7: she looks at the snowy throne but then turns away because winter must be dealt with, and now the leak says she goes north with secret Targaryen heir Jon even though Cersei still has King's Landing.

Except it's not prophecy screwing with you. It'd just be a lie besides the Night's King doesn't exist in the books.

It's likely that the NK took the evil dragonrider role from Euron and since this would need to involve killing a dragon unlike with Euron, it had the knock on effect of taking out the third dragonrider.

Yeah I'm pretty sure that D & D knew from early on that Daenerys doesn't get to sit the Iron Throne ever.

[OhOkayWhat]

13 hours ago, FemmyV said:

...another to insist with no basis for it in the story, as told, and if someone is going to halt conversation that doesn't fit their view...

I have seen many groups of fans doing that, not only JonSa fans. And the thing is, many of them will think exactly that way about the other group...

 

13 hours ago, FemmyV said:

....that someone deserves to be reminded they're on crack. Loudly and often.

And with enough people thinking that way about the other, everything will be very loud and nothing will be clear.

Edited November 7, 2016 by OhOkayWhat

[GrailKing]

Just saw this on reddit, I c&p what do people think.

 

 

Spoiler

http://imgur.com/ZHB5Lz2

Just saw this on reddit, I c&p what do people think.

 

 

Spoiler

http://imgur.com/ZHB5Lz2

Just saw this on reddit, I c&p what do people think.

    

http://imgur.com/ZHB5Lz2                                        

[GrailKing]

sorry for the triple.

[GrailKing]

other pic by poster.

 

https://imgur.com/SNOBz0v

[SeanC]

On the subject of Grey Worm's possible death at the battle near Highgarden, I was contemplating the people who could kill him (since named characters are not typically killed by random extras).  Present at the battle on the Lannister side:

- Jaime; given that he's supposed to be not good at fighting, I can't imagine the writers having him be able to kill Grey Worm, who's supposed to be a superb soldier.

- Bronn; certainly has the credentials.

- Randyl Tarly; too old, probably.

- Dickon Tarly; the audience wasn't given any reason to dislike Dickon in Season 6, so it's possible the writers want to provide cover for Dany apparently incinerating him later by having him kill a character the audience likes.

[Eyes High]

News via WOTW:

1. Italica filming wrapped today. Filming in Las Atarazanas starts tomorrow, and filming at the Castillo de Almodovar del Rio starts Wednesday. The cast and crew will work there for a week and then move on to Caceres (where they're filming in the streets of the Old Town).

2. Trujillo Castle filming scheduled to take place between the 14th and the 16th.

3. GOT began rehearsals today at Los Barruecos in Malpartida. Most of the filming will take place at a private estate called Las Brenas between November 19th and December 12th. This will be the big battle for Season 7 (at least one dragon, two armies, Jaime, etc.).

4. Jerome Flynn was spotted in Caceres at a restaurant.

If the leaker is correct, the battle scene will include at the very least Emilia, NCW, and Jerome Flynn. The leaker also made claims about the Tarlys being involved, so if Freddie Strome and James Faulkner are in the vicinity, that would support that assertion. The leaker also claimed that there's a scene after the main battle where Dany orders Drogon to burn the Tarlys alive over Tyrion's strong objections, so maybe Tyrion's present at the battle or shows up afterwards.

The Castillo de Almodovar was speculated by L7R to be Dragonstone exteriors. Not sure what Trujillo Castle is supposed to be, but the Lannisters are supposed to sack a castle at some point according to the leaks, so...

It seems as if the Old Town/Caceres filming will overlap with the battle filming, so if it is the parade D&D talked about several months ago, it seems likely it will be a Team Cersei-only affair. It seems highly unlikely there won't be significant leaks from the Old Town filming, though; there's no way they can lock that  space down.

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Eyes High said:

It seems as if the Old Town/Caceres filming will overlap with the battle filming, so if it is the parade D&D talked about several months ago, it seems likely it will be a Team Cersei-only affair.

Just going by past precedent, large portions of the battle filming will probably be groups of extras running around, so I don't think it's out of the questions that other castmembers could participate in both.

Edited November 8, 2016 by SeanC

[Edith]

Luka from WOTW has confirmed that the sea battle doesn't happen in the premiere and that Theon being hit is from episode 7. (This information is in the comments section)

The ambush scene is in fact between Jaime and Dany and that Bron will have a key action scene

 http://watchersonthewall.com/game-thrones-prep-work-begins-caceres-filming-wraps-seville-bronn-fight-key-action-sequence/#more-78265

[Eyes High]

A while ago, some guy on 4chan, not awayforthelads, posted details about the Jaime/Dany fight. his is the same guy who talked about Gendry taking out a wightified polar bear with his warhammer, before awayforthelads said anything about the polar bear. He provided the following details about the big Season 7 battle (cleaned up but mostly verbatim):

"Randyll is leading a long procession of caravans and it is pretty much a slaughter of the Lannisters by the the Dothraki and Drogon until Bronn saves the day by downing a dragon with a harpoon arrow launcher thing named Scorpion.

"Dany attacks Randyll and Dickon's caravan loot train thing with Drogon and a horde of Dothraki. Jaime and Bronn show up with their army. Lots of Lannister and Tarly slaughter by Team Dany. Bronn shoots and hits Drogon with an arrow-launching ballista, Drogon goes down but lives. Jaime sees that Dany is vulnerable and charges at her. He gets close to killing her, but Drogon is about to roast him, so Bronn runs in at the last second and saves Jaime by knocking him into the water. Tyrion is watching Jaime ride to his death from a distance the whole time. Then there's another underwater scene where Bronn saves him from drowning."

Grain of salt, etc. etc.

Quote

Luka from WOTW has confirmed that the sea battle doesn't happen in the premiere

So it seems like the rough order as far as action will be as follows:

Episode 1 Dragonstone landing --> sea battle --> Lannister forces sack Highgarden --> Dany ambush --> Episode 5 Tyrion/Davos mission to KL (not much action apart from Gendry swinging his warhammer, granted) --> Episode 6 wight hunt --> Episode 7 Ironborn/Theon fight on the beach --> Episode 7 wight demo in the dragonpit

The sea battle has to happen pretty early on, since Theon shows up at Dragonstone Yara-less mid-season.

[Edith]

43 minutes ago, Eyes High said:

A while ago, some guy on 4chan, not awayforthelads, posted details about the Jaime/Dany fight. his is the same guy who talked about Gendry taking out a wightified polar bear with his warhammer, before awayforthelads said anything about the polar bear. He provided the following details about the big Season 7 battle (cleaned up but mostly verbatim):

"Randyll is leading a long procession of caravans and it is pretty much a slaughter of the Lannisters by the the Dothraki and Drogon until Bronn saves the day by downing a dragon with a harpoon arrow launcher thing named Scorpion.

"Dany attacks Randyll and Dickon's caravan loot train thing with Drogon and a horde of Dothraki. Jaime and Bronn show up with their army. Lots of Lannister and Tarly slaughter by Team Dany. Bronn shoots and hits Drogon with an arrow-launching ballista, Drogon goes down but lives. Jaime sees that Dany is vulnerable and charges at her. He gets close to killing her, but Drogon is about to roast him, so Bronn runs in at the last second and saves Jaime by knocking him into the water. Tyrion is watching Jaime ride to his death from a distance the whole time. Then there's another underwater scene where Bronn saves him from drowning."

Grain of salt, etc. etc.

So it seems like the rough order as far as action will be as follows:

Episode 1 Dragonstone landing --> sea battle --> Lannister forces sack Highgarden --> Dany ambush --> Episode 5 Tyrion/Davos mission to KL (not much action apart from Gendry swinging his warhammer, granted) --> Episode 6 wight hunt --> Episode 7 Ironborn/Theon fight on the beach --> Episode 7 wight demo in the dragonpit

The sea battle has to happen pretty early on, since Theon shows up at Dragonstone Yara-less mid-season.

Probably episode 2, maybe episode 3? The ambush must be in episode 4 but I guess we'll have confirmation on the director when they start filming. 

In episode 3 we have Jon arriving in Dragonstone 

And you forgot episode 5 is also when Jon and company leave to wight hunting 

[Eyes High]

1 minute ago, Edith said:

Probably episode 2, maybe episode 3? The ambush must be in episode 4 but I guess we'll have confirmation on the director when they start filming. 

In episode 3 we have Jon arriving in Dragonstone 

And you forgot episode 5 is also when Jon and company leave to wight hunting 

It seems weird that they would entrust the big battle to a GOT newcomer like Matt Shakman, but to be fair, Miguel Sapochnik was new to GOT when he did the Hardhome battle, so...

Tyrion has to be back at Dragonstone by Episode 5, since he goes to KL with Davos and returns in the same episode. So the very latest the ambush could take place is Episode 4, if indeed Tyrion is present as awayforthelads claimed.

Awayforthelads also claimed that Olenna dies at the end of Episode 3: after Lannister forces take Highgarden, she confesses her responsibility for Joffrey's murder and Jaime allows her to drink poison rather than be taken back alive to face Cersei's wrath. That would align with an Episode 4 ambush: Dany hears about Highgarden's fall, and on the heels of losing her Dornish and Ironborn allies, decides that enough is enough and she needs to take the offensive, leading to the ambush.

[Minneapple]

I'm soooo disappointed in Jaime. I thought his limit with Cersei would be her killing everyone and her actions leading to Tommen's death, but nope. Show Jaime will always just be Cersei's lapdog, I guess.

[YaddaYadda]

32 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I'm soooo disappointed in Jaime. I thought his limit with Cersei would be her killing everyone and her actions leading to Tommen's death, but nope. Show Jaime will always just be Cersei's lapdog, I guess.

If the Cersei pregnancy is true, then that's the way they found to keep him tied to her. He's not going to turn his back on her while she's pregnant, even though I'm sure she's mentally preparing to lose that baby if she doesn't abort it herself.

[Eyes High]

34 minutes ago, Minneapple said:

I'm soooo disappointed in Jaime. I thought his limit with Cersei would be her killing everyone and her actions leading to Tommen's death, but nope. Show Jaime will always just be Cersei's lapdog, I guess.

According to Awayforthelads, Jaime's breaking point comes at the end of the season, with Cersei confiding to him she intends to renege on her promise to supply Lannister troops to help in the fight against the WW so that her enemies will be wiped out by the WW. Jaime, disgusted, abandons her to head north.

[ElizaD]

Grey Worm's absence makes me agree with the speculation that he dies, but it's curious that there haven't been any spoilers about it. If Grey Worm died in the ambush, surely it would be mentioned in the detailed description above. Perhaps he dies in the 7x02 sea battle with two of the Sand Snakes: if he was still around for Jon's arrival there should have been a mention of him in the leaks and IIRC he hasn't been spotted during Dragonstone or dragonpit filming.

It looks like the Tarlys are the only Team Cersei characters that Dany gets to kill, after she's already lost Yara, the Sands, Olenna and Grey Worm.

[whateverdgaf]

Jaime doesn't know that Daenerys would be any better than Cersei. All he knows about her is that she is descended from a notoriously insane family and has allied herself with Ironborns and Dothraki, as well as having three dragons. Cersei is bad, but he has a degree of control and influence over Cersei. Better the devil you know. Plus, it is possible that those wagons coming from the Tarlys may have food in them for people in King's Landing, so the entire situation is a whole lot more grey than evil!Cersei and good!Dany.

As for whether Jaime will break away from Cersei, I think he will. In the books he broke away from her much earlier, but the entire process was far more gradual. In the show I think the moment will be more dramatic. I think this because if you compare his interaction with Brienne in the show, the romance is played up a lot more, whereas it's far more subtle in the books. So Jaime is left with Cersei a lot longer, but his interactions with Brienne are more obvious in order compensate and the endgame will be the same.

As for Jaime being Cersei's lapdog, if he really was Cersei's lapdog he would have killed Tyrion, not sent Brienne to protect Sansa, probably wouldn't have sent Trystane back to Dorne becuase Cersei would have liked revenge on him, nor would he have tried so hard to end the siege at Riverrun peacefull and offer the Blackfish the chance to go North and help Sansa. So he's not as nearly under Cersei's thumb as much as people think.

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, Edith said:

Luka from WOTW has confirmed that the sea battle doesn't happen in the premiere and that Theon being hit is from episode 7.

The information about Theon better fits the leak.  Theon winning the fight with that other dude is presumably the end-of-season payoff for him.

[anamika]

12 hours ago, whateverdgaf said:

As for Jaime being Cersei's lapdog, if he really was Cersei's lapdog he would have killed Tyrion, not sent Brienne to protect Sansa, probably wouldn't have sent Trystane back to Dorne becuase Cersei would have liked revenge on him, nor would he have tried so hard to end the siege at Riverrun peacefull and offer the Blackfish the chance to go North and help Sansa. So he's not as nearly under Cersei's thumb as much as people think.

It's not that I care that Jaime is Cersei's lapdog. The problem, I personally have with the character is that he keeps consistently doing all these shitty things on the show. Him sending off Brienne after Sansa or helping Tyrion does not make up for that. In the books, I think he is supposed to improve after breaking up with Cersei and personally goes with Brienne to lady SH to help Sansa. 

I am not any fan of Olenna Tyrell, but she is still a vastly better person than Jaime Lannister. She got rid of a sadistic tyrant like Joffrey, who would have gone on to be another Aerys Targaryen. And for which she apparently ends up dying by poison because Jaime corners her after sacking Highgarden. He gets Riverrun back to the Freys, getting the BF killed in the process (In the books, he escapes). Arya has to clean up his dirty work.  From all the spoilers this season, his story is that he's actively aiding in keeping the Lannisters in power, allies with Euron, apparently tries to kill Dany in the ambush and fails to be convinced by Tyrion reasoning with him.  There's nothing redeeming about this character.

Brienne is a bit of an idiot, but she deserves better. Also Tormund>>>>>>>>>Jaime (IMO).

Edited November 9, 2016 by anamika

[whateverdgaf]

You say Jaime is consistently doing shitty things, but what is Jaime doing that is shitty? Trying to rescue his daughter? Trying to stop Margaery from taking a walk of atonement (the exact same thing Olenna was doing)? Ending the siege at Riverrun with as little bloodshed as possible? If it had come to battle, innocent people who had nothing to do with politics or great houses but were just caught up in their Lord's grasping for power would have died. By convincing Lord Edmure to surrender, using his own poor reputation which would have gotten even worse afterwards, Jaime managed to prevent many deaths, just as he had done at King's Landing. The only shitty thing that Jaime has truly done that I can think took place is killing Bran and Jory, and that all came from a desire to protect his loves ones.

As for Tormund being better than Jaime, why? Because he fights for the Starks? Well he also took parts in raisd on defenceless villages and killed innocent people. Jaime saved the entire population of King's Landing and managed to end an entire siege with only one person dying. Even trying to kill Bran; his worst deed, was out of a need to protect his lover and his three children. Many would have done the same, even some of the more moral characters on the show. Even Catelyn, if she had to choose between the death of an innocent boy or her ownd children, would have saved her children any day.

Yes, Jaime fights Dany and Olenna. Well, as I said, Jaime has no idea what Dany is capable of. But he does know that she has brought an entire Dothraki army down on Westers and has allied herself with Iron Islanders and the people who have killed his daughter in cold blood. He has no reason to trust her and many reasons to fear her. Especially as she is a Targaryen. At least with Cersei, he feels he could limit some of her damage. So,he fights against her and her allies. Which include Dothraki and Iron Islanders.

As for Brienne, Jaime rescued Brienne on many occaisons, and his love for her is based on the fact he respects who she is as a person. He respect her skills and honour. Tormund knows nothing about her except for he desires her. Brienne values chivalry and honour, none of which Tormund has. I also think she holds little respect for men who participate in raids on villages full of harmless, innocent people. And Brienne deserves the person she loves, not the person who leers at her and makes her feel uncomfortable.

[Eyes High]

This just in: James Faulkner, aka Randyll Tarly, went to the dentist in Caceres. Remember how I said that the presence of the Tarly actors in Spain would validate that part of the spoilers?...Yeah. (No sign of Freddie Stroma aka Dickon yet, though.)

If Jaime and Tyrion do have that Bronn-arranged meeting as the leaks claim, I'll be very interested to see what is said. On the facts, though, Jaime's decision to side with Cersei against Dany is straightforward. She's the daughter of a man he killed from a family with a reputation for madness looking to tear down everything he knows, aided and abetted by the brother he said he would split in two the next time he saw. At least with Cersei, he stands an outside chance of controlling her and he knows her. With Dany, he has no idea what she's capable of, and that's probably more terrifying to him. The devil you know and all that.

I'm looking forward to all the Lannister family drama. Tyrion on one side of the dragonpit and Jaime/Cersei on the other? Count me in. The leaker also said that Tyrion and Cersei have a separate scene together at the dragonpit.

Quote

 The only shitty thing that Jaime has truly done that I can think took place is killing Bran and Jory, and that all came from a desire to protect his loves ones.

TV Jaime killed Jory just to provoke Ned and Book Jaime grinned as he gave the order to kill Ned's men. (TV Jaime also looked straight at Ned as he drove a dagger through Jory's eye.) Let's not give him any cookies for it, shall we?

Jaime's an asshole. A redeemable asshole, potentially, but he's not a nice guy and never will be, no matter how much he loves Brienne. And even Cersei was disturbed by his attempt to kill Bran and was more upset about it than Jaime, which says something:

Quote

If truth be told, Jaime had come to rue heaving Brandon Stark out that window. Cersei had given him no end of grief afterward, when the boy refused to die. "He was seven, Jaime," she'd berated him. "Even if he understood what he saw, we should have been able to frighten him into silence."

Edited November 9, 2016 by Eyes High

[Jazzy24]

4 hours ago, whateverdgaf said:

You say Jaime is consistently doing shitty things, but what is Jaime doing that is shitty? Trying to rescue his daughter? Trying to stop Margaery from taking a walk of atonement (the exact same thing Olenna was doing)? Ending the siege at Riverrun with as little bloodshed as possible? If it had come to battle, innocent people who had nothing to do with politics or great houses but were just caught up in their Lord's grasping for power would have died. By convincing Lord Edmure to surrender, using his own poor reputation which would have gotten even worse afterwards, Jaime managed to prevent many deaths, just as he had done at King's Landing. The only shitty thing that Jaime has truly done that I can think took place is killing Bran and Jory, and that all came from a desire to protect his loves ones.

As for Tormund being better than Jaime, why? Because he fights for the Starks? Well he also took parts in raisd on defenceless villages and killed innocent people. Jaime saved the entire population of King's Landing and managed to end an entire siege with only one person dying. Even trying to kill Bran; his worst deed, was out of a need to protect his lover and his three children. Many would have done the same, even some of the more moral characters on the show. Even Catelyn, if she had to choose between the death of an innocent boy or her ownd children, would have saved her children any day.

Yes, Jaime fights Dany and Olenna. Well, as I said, Jaime has no idea what Dany is capable of. But he does know that she has brought an entire Dothraki army down on Westers and has allied herself with Iron Islanders and the people who have killed his daughter in cold blood. He has no reason to trust her and many reasons to fear her. Especially as she is a Targaryen. At least with Cersei, he feels he could limit some of her damage. So,he fights against her and her allies. Which include Dothraki and Iron Islanders.

As for Brienne, Jaime rescued Brienne on many occaisons, and his love for her is based on the fact he respects who she is as a person. He respect her skills and honour. Tormund knows nothing about her except for he desires her. Brienne values chivalry and honour, none of which Tormund has. I also think she holds little respect for men who participate in raids on villages full of harmless, innocent people. And Brienne deserves the person she loves, not the person who leers at her and makes her feel uncomfortable.

Jaime started a war and he continues to keep that war going so that ugly ass chair can stay in his family's monstrous hands. 

He also ended one mad king and than helped create another(Joffrey Baratheon)

And when did he try to kill Bran to save his children? Jaime never gave a fuck about those children in the books or on screen.