Season 12 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

[autumnmountains]

5 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I feel bad for Cade Owen in all this mess. He's been doing spots on the show for years but because his character exists through Hotch, I highly doubt he'll be back on either past a "Hotch is dead" episode. 

Yeah, I feel bad for him, even though I don't  for Thomas. I wonder how they work out the kids- are they contracted for a couple give or take episodes a season or what? I know one of TPTB said last year they weren't sure how many he would be in this season, that it had to do with his schedule but I would think by now they would've worked that out.

[Bookish Jen]

12 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I feel bad for Cade Owen in all this mess. He's been doing spots on the show for years but because his character exists through Hotch, I highly doubt he'll be back on either past a "Hotch is dead" episode. 

Me, too. And let's not forget the actress who plays Jessica. I always liked her.

[autumnmountains]

36 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Me, too. And let's not forget the actress who plays Jessica. I always liked her.

Oh very true. I guess they could still work out an appearance for her but I thought it would be harder for them to show Jack without Hotch. I don't know if he has a contract but I would think that if he did and if it said he was to be in X amount of episodes a season, they couldn't just back out of it due to another actor, even one playing his dad. 

I know of other shows where the parent actor was fires and the child actor stayed for a while but I can't think of the names of those shows.

[Danielg342]

1 hour ago, smoker said:

hahahaha

After all our efforts trying to find some logic and continuity for the character. I wouldn't mind being a fly on their wall  to know what are brewing for us. 

 

1 hour ago, ForeverAlone said:

Hotch and Jack are fake characters. If the writers want them to like nannies, they will like nannies. Since I am in favor a positive job change for Hotch and nothing angst-filled or overwrought, I am not in favor of any death, accident or illness to Hotch or anyone in his life. Because it sounds like this will all have to be done offscreen, there is no need for the writers to be over the top about it. 

OK, so let me try to save myself from a bad attempt at Devil's Advocate...

We know Hotch is the "stubborn" type. Or at least I can read Hotch to be very stubborn. He might have very big trust issues when it comes to Jack and refuses to let someone he doesn't know look after him.

I mean, think about it- if Hotch wanted to hire a nanny, why didn't he do it after Haley died? Money wasn't tight then either. If I recall, Jessica Brooks saying "I'll take care of Jack" was what spurred Hotch to want to go back to the BAU, since he didn't have to worry about raising Jack. Since Jessica is a big part of this equation, perhaps taking her out takes out Hotch.

The reason for the trust issues could be something as simple as Hotch just "not believing in the concept" and rationalized it away (we all have our views that seem odd but we've rationalized them in some way) or it could be bigger, like Jack prefers to have some familiarity at home or a nanny was once abusive towards him so Hotch swore away from the practice.

Or...a nanny was abusive towards Hotch. We forget that Hotch's exchange with Vincent Perotta is still largely unexplored. Perhaps part of Hotch's abuse at the hands of his parents involved the nanny. Or perhaps the nanny abused him so bad that he conflated the experience into believing his parents did it towards him (or the nanny coached him to think this way, with Hotch realizing the truth later).

I don't know...I'm just spinning my wheels. I'm a writer myself, so I'm used to coming up with crazy ideas. :P

[ForeverAlone]

I would be shocked if the show has any sort of contract with Cade Owen, stipulating a certain number of episodes per year. He's just a recurring actor and is hired as needed for episodes. With no Hotch, there would be no need to see Jack or Jessica. 

[ForeverAlone]

That's a whole lot of explanation for an offscreen character exit (presumably, based on what we have heard). :) :) :) 

It's one thing if the show was writing some elaborate multi-episode exit arc for Hotch, but they aren't. It sounds like they will be shuffling Hotch off stage left as soon as possible. So with that in mind, why set up some elaborate backstory? The only way I could see some elaborate exit is if Mr. Scratch kills Hotch offscreen. Other than that, why bother? 

[Danielg342]

It could be used to answer the Vincent Perotta question...no doubt there are those bellowing in Erica Messer's ear asking for a resolution to that. Presumably too it could come up in a simple conversation Rossi has with someone else (perhaps Reid) where he laments Hotch's departure.

Presumably, Hotch's departure is likely just going to be a few lines at best, and I suspect it's likely going to be contrived anyway. I figure, at the very least, we get an answer to one of CM's more pressing questions.

[secnarf]

5 hours ago, Mislav said:

Option 3: Hotch is abducted or goes missing, presumed to be abducted. Could work, even without Hotch getting any screen time in the episode when it happens. However, the writers would only be buying some time, and anyone remotely familiar with the circumstances surrounding Thomas Gibson's exit would know that there are only two possiblities

This could be really interesting, if done well. There are so many missing people who stay missing, who are just never found. It is very rare on TV, but less so in real life. I don't really think they'll have him go missing and stay missing, but it could be a compelling storyline. The problem, of course, is that it would take up a huge amount of screentime and I get the impression TPTB want this done with ASAP, and want everyone to move on.

4 hours ago, orza said:

A traffic accident is probably the best way to kill off Hotch. It can plausibly happen off screen, requires no setup or exposition, there is nothing to investigate, no door is left open for a return and everyone can move on.

I agree, this sounds like a very good possibility and probably one of the easier ways of dealing with this situation. Maybe a traffic accident that leads to the car blowing up so that the body is unrecognizable.

2 hours ago, smoker said:

I prefer that too or a promotion, but I doubt we got something like that. And if they bring some drama, at least, a sick child is something different

I hope they don't do something with Jack (or Jessica), because in order for that storyline to make sense/have drama/be compelling, they would actually need TG there. I don't see how it could be done well without him. Imagine if Reid had just never come back after leaving to go visit his mother last season. That's terrible storytelling - and it would be even worse since none of Hotch's family has any pre-existing conditions that we're aware of, so if something that huge happened it would be a big deal, and the team would visit Hotch, go to the hospital, etc. I know they don't have to show us those scenes and could just have the others talking about it, but it seems pretty lame to me.

 

Another option is that Mr Scratch makes Hotch do something that kills him and renders his body unrecognizable, or kidnaps/kills him and then is shot dead by one of the agents hunting him before he can tell them where he left Hotch's body.

[orza]

Wouldn't it defeat the purpose of killing off the character if the body is unrecognizable? That leaves the door open for a return, which under the circumstances shouldn't happen. There is no way that Gibson can return without it being a PR nightmare for the studio and network. If they are going to kill him off it needs to be unequivocal to put the whole thing behind them.

Edited August 16, 2016 by orza

[smoker]

23 minutes ago, secnarf said:

I hope they don't do something with Jack (or Jessica), because in order for that storyline to make sense/have drama/be compelling, they would actually need TG there. I don't see how it could be done well without him. Imagine if Reid had just never come back after leaving to go visit his mother last season. That's terrible storytelling - and it would be even worse since none of Hotch's family has any pre-existing conditions that we're aware of, so if something that huge happened it would be a big deal, and the team would visit Hotch, go to the hospital, etc. I know they don't have to show us those scenes and could just have the others talking about it, but it seems pretty lame to me.

 

Another option is that Mr Scratch makes Hotch do something that kills him and renders his body unrecognizable, or kidnaps/kills him and then is shot dead by one of the agents hunting him before he can tell them where he left Hotch's body.

I wouldn't say the idea is terrible, but you are right it lose its impact without TG and he's not coming back.

And about Mr. Scratch, let's not forget he tried to make a father kill his son...

[secnarf]

8 minutes ago, smoker said:

I wouldn't say the idea is terrible, but you are right it lose its impact without TG and he's not coming back.

And about Mr. Scratch, let's not forget he tried to make a father kill his son...

What would they do with that, though? Have Hotch kill Jack off-screen and then either vanish, complete suicide, or die under Mr Scratch's influence, also off-screen? It would be a good story idea if TG could come back and film it, but without him, I'll be really disappointed in it. They won't be able to show the direct aftermath of Hotch killing Jack, so Jack's death will feel very gratuitous and pointless, imo. Jack doesn't need to die - he can go live with Jessica, and we can see them at Hotch's funeral.

 

Unfortunately, with the way CM has been going, I'm really not holding out much hope. These ideas are very possible, but I don't think they can be done well without TG.

[Danielg342]

I do think, in fairness, an off-screen death could still lead to questions about "is Hotch coming back?" since there's the old adage, "didn't see the body so the character's not actually dead".

Megan Boone (on The Blacklist) "died" in 3.18 but many thought the death wasn't "final" because when she "died" the body wasn't seen. Sure enough, in the S3 finale, she turned out to be alive.

So, I think regardless of what we'll get, there will be those who will insist there's a sliver of a chance Hotch is coming back.

[thewhiteowl]

I think there will be plenty of speculation but my feeling is that TG kicked a writer so I don't see any of them doing him any favors. Unfortunately for the fans, I don't see  a favorable outcome for Hotch.  Just gone in one sentence and not ever mentioned again. 

[Danielg342]

@thewhiteowl, sadly, I think you're right. We may have even put more thought into this than the writers have (besides having to rewrite scripts).

[anna0852]

I think it's going to be a simple "Hotch won't risk his son after losing Hailey, he's resigned/in Witsec/burned out" if they want to leave the door open for a series finale appearance. Or an expedient car accident if they want to make sure the door is never re-opened.

I'm more concerned with getting Emily appointed Unit Chief.

[Danielg342]

15 minutes ago, anna0852 said:

I'm more concerned with getting Emily appointed Unit Chief.

How come? I'm curious. I think she'd do a great job.

[Mysteyman]

Let me second the thought that Emily would make a great unit chief.

[anna0852]

Whoops! Sorry, I meant that I want Emily to be Unit Chief. I love PB and I think it would be perfect to get her back in that role.

[zannej]

I think that unless TG can successfully file an appeal to get the dismissal overturned, he's gone for good and can probably never return. The writers may take the opportunity to kill him off or they might just find a way for him to leave off screen-- maybe something urgent came up and he had to be whisked away in witness protection.

[orza]

Studios always have the option to release actors from their contracts. Otherwise it would never be possible to write off characters for creative reasons and that's done all the time.

[Mom x 3]

23 hours ago, smoker said:

What if it's about Jack instead of Hotch. I mean, he could be sick, get a cancer or being the one in an accident, he could lose a limb. I can believe Hotch quitting his job for Jack.

He didn't quit it for his wife.  He didn't quit it when he became a single parent.  I don't see him quitting it for Jack.  I like the character of Hotch.  He is a great FBI agent.  However, he is an okay dad and was a mediocre husband, in my opinion.  

[zannej]

I will be sad that Hotch won't be on the show anymore, but I admit I'm actually relieved that Jack/Cade won't be on the show. I'm not a big fan of having children on shows to begin with and I never warmed to the kid. That said, I'm not happy about the way things happened and that those characters will be gone because of how things went down behind the scenes.

I can't see Hotch voluntarily leaving so my guess is they will either actually have Jack and Jessica in for one more episode and have something where the team is called to Hotch's apartment and he's either dead or missing OR they get a call that he had to be pulled into witness protection immediately and didn't get to say goodbye. I would prefer for it to not end in death. Another option would be if he had some sort of health crisis and could no longer be in the FBI-- but that would be harder to explain why he wouldn't appear on screen.

In the absence of Morgan and Hotch, Rossi may begrudgingly agree to go back to being the Unit Chief. I'd rather have that than have them try to bring in a completely new person. We are already getting one new person this season. I think two would be pushing it. I like Aisha, but she hasn't been with the team long enough to be the leader. Reid is the one who has the most seniority after Rossi, but I don't think he would want the position.

Maybe Esai Morales/Cruz can come back and he can oversee things while they are trying to figure out how to replace Hotch.

[Danielg342]

6 minutes ago, zannej said:

Another option would be if he had some sort of health crisis and could no longer be in the FBI-- but that would be harder to explain why he wouldn't appear on screen.

Health crisis + witness protection, out of the fear that Mr. Scratch would attack him now that he's vulnerable.

[zannej]

2 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

Health crisis + witness protection, out of the fear that Mr. Scratch would attack him now that he's vulnerable.

Ooh, I like that idea! With him, it would be more the fear that he couldn't protect his family from Mr. Scratch.

[Bookish Jen]

A bunch of us going cross-eyed angst over the latest CM developments. Can you imagine actually being on the CM set these days? I bet the stress can be cut with a dull butter knife. I'm sure the cast and crew are being told it is best to keep their utterances, whether through traditional or social media, "light" or not comment at all. I bet a majority of them are pretty darn stressed these days because they have no idea on the future of CM and that means their own futures, too. Yikes, no wonder Matthew is brushing his teeth with Neosporin and putting out alarming Tweets about his "morbid depression."

Okay. TG is gone (and justifiably so). However, I do want Hotch's departure to be treated with some kind of respect and dignity. Hotch has been an instrumental character since CM's inception and I don't just want him to disappear into the ether. I'm hoping the writers will separate TG's behavior from Hotch as a character, and give this character a rich and layered story explaining his departure from the BAU whether for good or bad. Plus, this will give the actors something to really work with that will challenge their acting chops.

Needless to say, I don't think Virgil should write the script. But I do think Kirsten could handle writing a good script. She did a fabulous job writing "Nelson's Sparrow." For one thing, she reigned in Erica Messer and for that she should be canonized.

[smoker]

15 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

I do want Hotch's departure to be treated with some kind of respect and dignity. Hotch has been an instrumental character since CM's inception and I don't just want him to disappear into the ether. I'm hoping the writers will separate TG's behavior from Hotch as a character, and give this character a rich and layered story explaining his departure from the BAU whether for good or bad. Plus, this will give the actors something to really work with that will challenge their acting chops.

Needless to say, I don't think Virgil should write the script. 

Amen

[Willowy]

1 hour ago, Bookish Jen said:

Okay. TG is gone (and justifiably so). However, I do want Hotch's departure to be treated with some kind of respect and dignity. Hotch has been an instrumental character since CM's inception and I don't just want him to disappear into the ether. I'm hoping the writers will separate TG's behavior from Hotch as a character, and give this character a rich and layered story explaining his departure from the BAU whether for good or bad. Plus, this will give the actors something to really work with that will challenge their acting chops.

Needless to say, I don't think Virgil should write the script. 

Agree!

[Mysteyman]

Chances are that given the sudden nature of the events that led to Gibsons departure, I doubt they have  a significant arc planned.

[Bookish Jen]

31 minutes ago, Mysteyman said:

Chances are that given the sudden nature of the events that led to Gibsons departure, I doubt they have  a significant arc planned.

Most likely you're right. I don't' think this will be handled very well. But has CM been handled well in the past few seasons? Nope, not in my humble opinion.

[Willowy]

I'd like to see a scene where they're all in the briefing room wondering where Hotch is, and Emily walks in with a stern/sad face wearing her SSA badge. She's the new Unit Chief and has to tell them all the news. 

[normasm]

2 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

I do want Hotch's departure to be treated with some kind of respect and dignity. Hotch has been an instrumental character since CM's inception and I don't just want him to disappear into the ether. I'm hoping the writers will separate TG's behavior from Hotch as a character, and give this character a rich and layered story explaining his departure from the BAU whether for good or bad. Plus, this will give the actors something to really work with that will challenge their acting chops.

Needless to say, I don't think Virgil should write the script. 

Amen to smoker's amen! Well put, Booky.

Edited August 18, 2016 by normasm

[Danielg342]

I could dig a storyline where the team struggles with coping with their new reality. The other times Hotch was away, the team was essentially beside themselves with how "stressful" it was being a man down (yet they had no similar struggles when Reid or others were MIA), so it would be nice seeing the team being forced to rectify that he's not there and pull that weight.

[Willowy]

I'd also like to see Matt Cruz pull an executive decision and recruit former agent Derek Morgan to come in and help catch these fugitives.

Normally I'd say he hasn't been gone long enough, but our show (our fandom, and our team) has been bruised, and there's a deep loss with Hotch now gone. I don't know about you guys, but I want as many of my team back as wants to come (no Seaver, not you, stand down. I was talking about Elle, and maybe Alex).

[Guest]

On ‎8‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 9:57 PM, anna0852 said:

I think it's going to be a simple "Hotch won't risk his son after losing Hailey, he's resigned/in Witsec/burned out" if they want to leave the door open for a series finale appearance. Or an expedient car accident if they want to make sure the door is never re-opened.

I don't think Hotch will resign/burn out because they already did both versions of that with Gideon and Morgan.  It yields no life lessons for those still at BAU.

I think Witsec or anything unsub related, missing or murdered, is out because of the circumstances of TG departure.  They aren't going to want to dwell on Hotch and focus the season on the search for a character or character's killer whose actor caused a show related scandal.

I think sudden accidental death with no suspicious circumstances is most likely.

[smoker]

I just realised CBS isn't posting anything new about CM pre-season since 8-11

Edited August 20, 2016 by smoker

[zannej]

If they are professional (which I somewhat doubt) they won't let TG's mistake taint the Hotch character. I know they tried to infuse some of the real life goings on into stuff for previous departures, but this is one time where I think it would be better for them to do something different. Because if they tried to do something to Hotch as sort of a swipe at TG, it would just hurt the show, the fans, and ruin the character.

[ForeverAlone]

Right now, we have no clue what Erica thinks about Thomas's firing. It wasn't her decision to let him go, so she could be very unhappy about it. Or she might not. But either way, I don't see them writing Hotch's departure due to misconduct on his part. But unless they want to incorporate Mr. Scratch into his departure as the catalyst, I tend to think they will write something relatively innocuous, but also potentially leave a door open to return at some point. Since it sounds like Thomas won't return, they can't do some big, dramatic goodbye story like they have for other departing cast members. And making something super emotional just emphasizes what they probably want to downplay to the audience. It would not shock me if they do a time jump and write away his departure as a transfer into a new job. 

[WendyCR72]

5 hours ago, smoker said:

I just realised CBS isn't posting anything new about CM pre-season since 8-11

Well, whatever was going to happen may no longer apply and I'm sure there's a lot of scrambling/rewriting going on now.

[Bookish Jen]

On 8/15/2016 at 3:20 PM, ReidFan said:

:::meeting in Erica Messer's office:::  "Matthew, sweetness, love bug..We've lost Shemar and now Thomas in the last five episodes. I really really really need you to stay for every episode this season. I know we gave you the three off again, but we can't afford to lose the last original continuous serving character. What'll it take? You wanna direct a dozen episodes this season? done! you want your character to have the most awesome gf ever in a five episode arc that doesn't end in her gratuitous death? done. We'll double up filming your scenes in September and November and give you October off so we could cut those scenes into the episodes you'd be 'missing' from. You want a producer credit? done! You want sugar mint cookies from Milwaukee? done! I'll have Booky deliver them personally. you want cheese from that lovely town in the UK? done! OleDoggie will fly it in on the next flight!

 

did I forget anything?

And Old Doggie better bring in an extra brick of cheddar for little ole me. I use it to make my cheesy buttermilk biscuits.

[Droogie]

I'm so disgusted with the whole show right now, but I've established that.  I will say this:

If Reid is gone for all/most of October, plus Morgan will be absent and now Hotch... well, what remains won't look like any CM episode I'd personally ever watch.

[Bookish Jen]

29 minutes ago, Droogie said:

I'm so disgusted with the whole show right now, but I've established that.  I will say this:

If Reid is gone for all/most of October, plus Morgan will be absent and now Hotch... well, what remains won't look like any CM episode I'd personally ever watch.

Egad, October will be the month of JJ's hour of power, Garcia's ridiculous kitty ears, Tara's bad wigs and Rossi being mushball grandpa while getting his freak on with wife number two.

October is also the month I seriously get my "bake-on," so Wednesday nights I'll spend CM time baking sugar mint cookies, cheesy buttermilk biscuits, my mom's chocolate chip cake, various brownie recipes and in the name of Saint Martha of Stewart, anything else my heart desires.

[ReidFan]

is October too early to start my Christmas baking?

[normasm]

37 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

Egad, October will be the month of JJ's hour of power, Garcia's ridiculous kitty ears, Tara's bad wigs and Rossi being mushball grandpa while getting his freak on with wife number two.

Maybe they will promote Andersen to Unit Chief and the whole (remaining) team will be killed because Andersen left them unsupervised at their homes. Then Reid can come back and take over the show, and invite Morgan and Hotch to be his team! Kevin will take over for Garcia, and Gina Sharp will be promoted to Section Chief, turning out to be twice as mean as Original Recipe Strauss.

[Danielg342]

Is Matthew Gray Gubler confirmed gone for October?

[Bookish Jen]

55 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

is October too early to start my Christmas baking?

I'll probably start my Christmas crafting-making bath soap and bath and beauty related products, beaded jewelry and various stationery items.

[ForeverAlone]

26 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Is Matthew Gray Gubler confirmed gone for October?

No. Some are just speculating that he will have the same provision in his contract to miss work in October like he did last year. But we won't know until that time rolls around and see if he is at work or on an extended vacation again. 

[ReidFan]

28 minutes ago, Danielg342 said:

Is Matthew Gray Gubler confirmed gone for October?

not confirmed, just speculation based on what happened last year. Dunno about anyone else here, but I'm all over his twitter and other SM (like stink on skunk) to keep track of his whereabouts and the instant I know it'll be shared

[smoker]

Maybe it doesn't happen in the first half of the season, even if he was going to have some 'free' time we don't know if it will happen after all this mess. I am thinking about SM here, he put off his retirement because of AJ Cook pregnancy, at least, I did read that in some place.

[ReidFan]

pretty sure if Matthew wants time off it would be October, given his love for fall and Halloween especially, deferring it to later in the season makes no sense.

[Bookish Jen]

13 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

not confirmed, just speculation based on what happened last year. Dunno about anyone else here, but I'm all over his twitter and other SM (like stink on skunk) to keep track of his whereabouts and the instant I know it'll be shared

Well, keep us informed. I hope he gets some important Matthew time just to decompress from "kickgate" and the major pressure and stress everyone affiliated with CM is under right now, not to mention he might be bit ticked off because this situation has probably put the kibosh on a Mr. Scratch follow-up.

Then again, he might have to work in the wake of "kickgate" to tie us loose ends this whole crazy mess has caused the show.

Ugh. I don't envy anyone who works on this show right now.