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Season 12 Spoilers, Speculation and Anticipation

Danielg342

By Danielg342
in Criminal Minds

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SSAHotchner

SSAHotchner

On 8/27/2016 at 10:37 PM, Franky said:

Buuurrrn.

That's your opinion, and it's the opinion of... several people here, it seems. You're welcome to it, of course. But the writers, most of them anyway, are veterans. They know and do their job. They understand what it takes to make this show much more than we do - what it takes to make MANY shows - and they understand what we want, even if they can't always give it to us. They have more than just US to answer to.

The 'last few seasons' gave us Final Shot. Gatekeeper. Persuasion. The Edge of Winter. Nelson's Sparrow. A Thousand Suns. Mr. Scratch. Entropy. Hostage. The Storm.

I'll take it. 

I'm going to respectfully disagree with you. They don't know what they're doing because they don't really grasp the premise of the show and are writing it pretty much like any old cop procedural you can find on any network now. And they didn't bother to really get to know the characters but have chosen instead to reinvent them to fit with whatever the writers feel like writing. Of the episodes you mention, the only ones that I thought were well-written were Entropy, The Edge of Winter, Final Shot, Persuasion and Mr. Scratch. I would also add Gabby to that list.  

2 hours ago, Mislav said:

Well, since Franky would like to see a list...

 

1) Make the crimes more realistic. Have the unsubs murder, mostly, for motives like lust, revenge, thrill or greed. And no more "make her eat the head of my ex girlfriend" or "I'm gonna replace her blood with the one of an immortal jelly fish" or "let's mutilate her face so she would look like my deceased girlfriend", stick to the fairly realistic murder methods (stabbing, strangulation, poisoning...) If you want to surprise the viewers, just put a little twist to the usual formula without making it too unrealistic (female serial rapist, underage serial killer, etc.)

 

2) Stop showing the unsub from the beginning, or, at least, don't make him/her take up over fifty percent of the episodes.

 

3) Find a love interest for Reid already, and don't kill her off this time.

 

4) Actually have the profile work solve the case, rather than using Garcia's magic computer. If that is too hard, combine the two. The team discovers some important clues about the unsub through the profiling, then they have Garcia look up (for example) a man in his 20s who has a prior criminal record, drives a black SUV, lives and works in that one specific neighborhood, likely works in a service industry, and he suffered a stressor recently, such as a death io a family member. Voila

 

5) Sometimes, have fun with the episodes. Just imagine a Halloween episode where the team is called over to investigate a case in a small town where lots of strange murders happen, and they encounter a strange young woman who may or may not help them and also may be or may not be involved (Nathan Harris+Zoe Hawkes?). Sort of like a homage to "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" or, in some ways, "Supernatural". There's a comic relief without dumbing down Spencer or overplaying Garcia's quirks or writing cheesy "family" moments, and a creepy case too. With Matthew Gray Gubler as a writer and a director it can become a series classic.

 

6) Speaking of cheesy family moments, just stop. It's normal to see some tension, even between long-term friends/colleagues, let alone newcomers. Heck, even within families-happy families. This whole set up with no tensions or disagreements within the team, ever, and newcomers immediately blending in, is just uninteresting and artificial.

 

7) When you do have a female unsub, don't make her overweight, delusional, nor hopelessly in love with a much more attractive man.

I agree with all of this. It's like you read my mind.

And Booky and Old Dog, I would miss both of you here. I am not going to watch this season either, but I haven't really decided about abandoning the forums because of friendships I have made. 

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WendyCR72
WendyCR72

If this was Gibson's first rodeo in terms of physical violence, I'd say this reaction is an overreaction. However, it isn't. So he got more chances with even having the first instance be all "bygones"

Princess Lucky
Princess Lucky

Actually, close your eyes and replay the situation like so: What if this producer had kicked TG? What if TG had kicked MGG? What if TG had kicked Erica Messer? What if Erica Messer

Princess Lucky
Princess Lucky

But this is the second instance of violence from TG. He "shoved" another person years ago, and that was swept under the rug (obviously, since we're just now finding out about it). Who was that other p

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ReidFan

ReidFan

3 hours ago, senin said:

Sorry about the previous post, I was triying to quote ReidFan and I made several mistakes!! And I don't know how to fix it.

Anyway, I was going to answer the question about "Grorgeous Gray Matter" , it was me who posted it in the Reid thread. I heard it yesterday in "Open Season" (season 2 Ep 21). 

Reid asks García something on the phone and she says something like "since you asked, gorgeous gray matter..... " . The quote is not literal, but it goes more or less like that, 

But muy first thought was also about the initials in reverse. 

oh! so it's a Garcia-ism :) awwwwww... excellent (I actually use those in fanfic all the time, more than happy to add that one to the list )  )

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ReidFan

ReidFan

3 hours ago, Mislav said:

Well, since Franky would like to see a list...

3) Find a love interest for Reid already, and don't kill her off this time.

 

completely agree with your entire list.... and have only one thing to add/edit.  3A (or 8. if it merits its own) ... stop with the eye rolling, stink eye stares, dropped jaws and otherwise demeaning/condescending/patronising reactions to Reid

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Willowy

Willowy

30 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

completely agree with your entire list.... and have only one thing to add/edit.  3A (or 8. if it merits its own) ... stop with the eye rolling, stink eye stares, dropped jaws and otherwise demeaning/condescending/patronising reactions to Reid

They made great strides with that in season 11. May it continue, in perpetuity. *thumbs way the hell up*

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BW Manilowe

BW Manilowe

(edited)
5 hours ago, ReidFan said:

I hope you're right FA. I like Bodhi Elfman, he's just the perfect blend of deceptive and creepy as Mr Scratch. And if imdb would freakin' update stuff, with like, known upcoming ep titles and guest stars.....I guess I can hold out hope that there will be more Mr Scratch somewhere down the line this season and that MGG does direct that one. (a side note, someone here mentioned they finally saw the reference to Gorgeous Gray Matter as it pertained to Reid. Care to enlighten me? I thought it was just a play on the initials (G)orgeous (G)ray (M)atter like MGG in reverse.....)

Bodhi Elfman is/was Mr. Scratch (haven't seen his ep)? That's a "6 Degrees of Thomas Gibson", for those who weren't aware. Bodhi's wife is Jenna Elfman, who was Dharma to Thomas's Greg in Dharma & Greg.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by BW Manilowe
Rewrite due to mysterious strikeout of half my post.
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ReidFan

ReidFan

9 minutes ago, Franky said:

 

And yeah, Gorgeous Gray Matter IS a Garcia-ism. Apt, yes?

makes writing interesting :) : Gorgeous Gray Matter, Boy Wonder, Tall Smart and Handsome/Clueless, 187, Genius etc

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BW Manilowe

BW Manilowe

Apologies for the strikeout in half my last post. I thought I fixed it & I don't know how it messed up again. It's done that in other forums/threads too, even though I don't see an icon I could've hit to cause a strikeout in the post frame, nor am I adding any coding in my post to result in a strikeout.

Anyway, I'm glad the post is still legible.

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secnarf

secnarf

3 hours ago, Willowsmom said:

Bringing Paige back is so foolish. A brand new  from outside head of unit would give them so much more new drama.

Who is Paige?
And I wasn't aware they have released any information on who will replace Hotch as team leader?

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ForeverAlone

ForeverAlone

It would make sense to bring back Paget to be the unit chief. Anything less than that (i.e. she comes back to be a BAU team member) just makes no sense. As it is, they will have to do some storyline contortions to justify her return, but they really couldn't sell Emily just coming back to be a profiler. 

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smoker

smoker

(edited)

I've edited the "taking down Hotch" line  because my complain is about the show's creative choice and not Franky's opinion.

I can't focus in this "soryline" quietly. It's awful, Hotch deserves better. They dont need butchering the character, in no less than a season long arc. It's a slap in our faces (Hotch's fans) because if they dont work out a final episode with TG by the end of the season (and after KV comments, it seems they wont) Hotch wont make it alive and that's unacceptable.

I dont have any respect left for the creative team of this show. If I wanted to watch  how personal issues shit on fictional characters I would be watching Greys Anatomy >(

Edited by smoker
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secnarf

secnarf

14 hours ago, smoker said:

I dont have any respect left for the creative team of this show. If I wanted to watch  how personal issues shit on fictional characters I would be watching Greys Anatomy >(

Well, this situation isn't the creative team's fault.

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orza

orza

59 minutes ago, smoker said:

It is,  the way they are going to deal with Hotch's fate is their choice. 

This is the kind of situation where the writers probably have no say in how it will play out. This is a network-owned show so that's who calls the shots.

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secnarf

secnarf

This situation (TG being fired and not being able to shoot any scenes with Hotch in them) is not the writer's fault and does not really leave them with any good options.

And I agree with orza - it's not like the decision to kill off a character is done by whoever is writing the episode. If the network has influence over something as minor as a character's sexual orientation, then I'd assume they would also have influence over this.

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smoker

smoker

(edited)

I disagree.

Of course, every case is different and I am not saying they dont have the power to say how writers have to write a character out, but that doesnt mean they did it.

Esposito's exit from blue bloods was made in a hurry.

It's unclear why she was terminated and  publicity was pretty negative. They said she was problematic, killing her offscreem would have been easier, instead of that, they let the character go.

Edited by smoker
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Danielg342

Danielg342

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I'm not sure we'll get a truly "satisfying" exit for Hotch, only because it being done off-screen severely restricts what the writers are able to do. I also doubt we will get even more than a few lines, since Thomas Gibson's firing was so quick and haphazard.

What I will say is that whatever happens, because it's off-screen and nothing off-screen is ever "final", there will always be a chance that Hotch can return in some capacity. The writers I hope know this, meaning I hope they won't get too crazy in crafting his exit- for now.

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ReidFan

ReidFan

6 minutes ago, smoker said:

I read this on spoilertv

Criminal Minds - Episode 12.06 - Elliott's Pond

it's written by Erica Messer, directed by Matthew Gray Gubler and has a guest actor named Holland Pilar (or was it Pilar Holland LOL, I don't remember....I was fixated at 'directed by @gublernation') 

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smoker

smoker

2 minutes ago, ReidFan said:

it's written by Erica Messer, directed by Matthew Gray Gubler and has a guest actor named Holland Pilar (or was it Pilar Holland LOL, I don't remember....I was fixated at 'directed by @gublernation') 

I see you well informed Reidfan hahaha

I'll be checking comments, if an episode is directed by MGG or says something about Hotch I'll watch xD

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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

On ‎9‎/‎2‎/‎2016 at 2:55 PM, ReidFan said:

it's written by Erica Messer, directed by Matthew Gray Gubler and has a guest actor named Holland Pilar (or was it Pilar Holland LOL, I don't remember....I was fixated at 'directed by @gublernation') 

So the script will suck but the direction will be divine. Oh well, can't have them all.

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ReidFan

ReidFan

1 minute ago, Mysteyman said:

Episode 1 has a title.

The Crimson King.

so do the others:

12 02 Sick Day

12 03 Taboo

12 04 Keeper

12 05 The Anti Terrorist Squad

12 06 Elliott's Pond (written by Erica Messer, directed by Matthew Gray Gubler)

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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

On ‎8‎/‎31‎/‎2016 at 4:15 PM, Mislav said:

Well, since Franky would like to see a list...

 

1) Make the crimes more realistic. Have the unsubs murder, mostly, for motives like lust, revenge, thrill or greed. And no more "make her eat the head of my ex girlfriend" or "I'm gonna replace her blood with the one of an immortal jelly fish" or "let's mutilate her face so she would look like my deceased girlfriend", stick to the fairly realistic murder methods (stabbing, strangulation, poisoning...) If you want to surprise the viewers, just put a little twist to the usual formula without making it too unrealistic (female serial rapist, underage serial killer, etc.)

 

2) Stop showing the unsub from the beginning, or, at least, don't make him/her take up over fifty percent of the episodes.

 

3) Find a love interest for Reid already, and don't kill her off this time.

 

4) Actually have the profile work solve the case, rather than using Garcia's magic computer. If that is too hard, combine the two. The team discovers some important clues about the unsub through the profiling, then they have Garcia look up (for example) a man in his 20s who has a prior criminal record, drives a black SUV, lives and works in that one specific neighborhood, likely works in a service industry, and he suffered a stressor recently, such as a death io a family member. Voila

 

5) Sometimes, have fun with the episodes. Just imagine a Halloween episode where the team is called over to investigate a case in a small town where lots of strange murders happen, and they encounter a strange young woman who may or may not help them and also may be or may not be involved (Nathan Harris+Zoe Hawkes?). Sort of like a homage to "Buffy the Vampire Slayer" or, in some ways, "Supernatural". There's a comic relief without dumbing down Spencer or overplaying Garcia's quirks or writing cheesy "family" moments, and a creepy case too. With Matthew Gray Gubler as a writer and a director it can become a series classic.

 

6) Speaking of cheesy family moments, just stop. It's normal to see some tension, even between long-term friends/colleagues, let alone newcomers. Heck, even within families-happy families. This whole set up with no tensions or disagreements within the team, ever, and newcomers immediately blending in, is just uninteresting and artificial.

 

7) When you do have a female unsub, don't make her overweight, delusional, nor hopelessly in love with a much more attractive man.

1) Yes, more realistic crimes, ones that could actual happen but with an interesting twist. I still like my idea of a female Charles Manson. I had this idea of a female serial killer who kills convicted rapists who get off easy like Brock Turner.

And "make her eat the head of my ex-girlfriend" or "I'm gonna replace her blood with the one of an immortal jelly fish" or "let's mutilate her face so she would look like my deceased girlfriend"

Hmm, are these CM episode plot points, or lyrics to Spencer, Hold My Earrings songs?

2) Yes, more mystery to the unsubs, just give us subtle hints and give us more profiling of the unsub’s motivations, actions, etc. It’s what you conceal, not reveal that made CM so amazing in the first place.

3) Don’t kill her, make her take him hostage or fall of the earth especially the last one if she’s redhead, just saying.

4) There is not enough word for this statement. If everything gets solved by Garcia’s magical computer why not get rid of the BAU and change the name of the show from Criminal Minds to Penelope Garcia’s Magical Computer and Sparkly Ponies Time.

5) I’d like more fun, too. It’s okay for CM to have its comic moments. Spencer’s “Physics Magic” scene never fails to charm me.

6) Yes, not all co-workers gets along and sometimes it takes a newbie awhile to blend in.

7) One thing I’ve noticed with CM is how they portray women who are fat (well, at least by Hollywood standards). Either they are childish, mopey, completely delusional and frumpy, which we’ve seen with the unsubs. Or they are loud, brassy, poorly dressed and man hungry like Garcia. Enough!

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ReidFan

ReidFan

56 minutes ago, Franky said:

Well, Dorian Loker was chubby and she was awesome! :)

she wasn't 'chubby' according to my standards :-( I thought she was realistic and reasonable. And attractive in a 'real' person kinda way.

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Lebanna

Lebanna

(edited)

Exactly, Frankie. Loker was great and gorgeous. And Garcia's not actually really big either. It's just that Hollywood has warped our brains. But whatever size anyone happens to be, we're all 'normal' and 'real'.

It bugs me how they treat non-tiny women, but also how they treat characters with OCD on the show. They get it so wrong. It's a personal bugbear of mine, every time they go there.  I'm sure we've all got something that annoys us about CM!

Edited by Lebanna
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ReidFan

ReidFan

1 minute ago, Franky said:

Mine is the OVERLOUD music they play over dramatic moments, sometimes when our team is even talking! It's like "Uh, we're not morons. The musical cues don't have to smash our eardrums."

bugs the hell out of me on this and any show, when I have to resort to putting the CC on because I can't hear the dialogue.....

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ReidFan

ReidFan

19 minutes ago, Droogie said:

Me too Franky!  A pic of Joe directing definitely makes me sad.

<<engaging MGG positivity mode>>

but that means there may be more Reid in the episode then :)

<<disengaging MGG positivity mode>>

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smoker

smoker

(edited)

new posts

http://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-2016-season-premiere-spoilers/#!11/the-crimson-king/

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/fall-tv-returning-shows-000000539/photo-p-b-season-theme-b-photo-130007767.html

 

Messer is the worst liar I've ever seen just after a Professor on my Med School... I mean, she said:

"We haven’t really done any long-term arcs really since Prentiss left the show in Season 6," but she feels like they’ve earned the right to do more serialized storytelling. "We’re going to be doing something a little more detailed like [the Ian Doyle arc] this season." 

Are you kidding me? And what  about The dirty dozen and Garcia and Morgan last season? I wish I could forget so quick that crap

 

tumblr_mjfgtmLibw1rvzu9do1_250.gif

Edited by smoker
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zannej

zannej

On 9/6/2016 at 4:52 PM, ReidFan said:

<<engaging MGG positivity mode>>

but that means there may be more Reid in the episode then :)

<<disengaging MGG positivity mode>>

But Matthew just directed the episode right before, so that means he will be working on post-production and will likely be in Joe's episode less. Not trying to be a downer, just pointing out the facts.

On 9/7/2016 at 5:51 PM, smoker said:

new posts

http://tvline.com/gallery/fall-tv-2016-season-premiere-spoilers/#!11/the-crimson-king/

https://www.yahoo.com/tv/fall-tv-returning-shows-000000539/photo-p-b-season-theme-b-photo-130007767.html

 

Messer is the worst liar I've ever seen just after a Professor on my Med School... I mean, she said:

"We haven’t really done any long-term arcs really since Prentiss left the show in Season 6," but she feels like they’ve earned the right to do more serialized storytelling. "We’re going to be doing something a little more detailed like [the Ian Doyle arc] this season." 

Are you kidding me? And what  about The dirty dozen and Garcia and Morgan last season? I wish I could forget so quick that crap

 

tumblr_mjfgtmLibw1rvzu9do1_250.gif

One of her main talents seems to be that she is a superb bullshit artist. She's like a used car salesman-- tries to sell a hunk of junk by lying about the history and condition. She's made plenty of false statements about what has and hasn't happened on the show in the past. I don't know if she is purposely prevaricating or if she just forgets things.

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Bookish Jen

Bookish Jen

(edited)
On 9/3/2016 at 6:16 PM, Franky said:

Well, she was "chubby" by Hollywood standards. But then again, so are most of us. 

Yes, if your a size 6-8 then you are a fatty-boombalatty. If your a 10 or bigger then you are morbidly obese and should kill yourself. Yes, I'm being sarcastic

Both Garcia and Loker are very pretty, and I don't mean pretty for fat girls. They are just really pretty to me. Garcia has great skin and I love her smile. And Loker was a fair-skinned redhead, which to me, makes her pretty damn awesome!

Edited by Bookish Jen
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Willowy

Willowy

6 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

Yes, if your a size 6-8 then you are a fatty-boombalatty. If your a 10 or bigger then you are morbidly obese and should kill yourself. Yes, I'm being sarcastic

Both Garcia and Loker are very pretty, and I don't mean pretty for fat girls. They are just really pretty to me. Garcia has great skin and I love her smile. And Loker was a fair-skinned redhead, which to me, makes her pretty damn awesome!

Right, neato, agreed! Can we move on now?

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smoker

smoker

1 hour ago, ReidFan said:

we all know it's clearly a case of  'well, Matthew and Thomas both do it, I wanna do it too' and from TPTB 'let's keep our name star happy and let him direct. how bad can it be?' 

well, It went really really bad, but I guess it's dificult take back the candy after he got a taste

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