S08.E22: Crossfire

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Noggin said:

Well at least we got a happy ending of sorts, many of the professional critics seem less than happy with the show and in many respects I agree with them. Of course Castle had to get himself kidnapped after promising his wife he would stay put but sadly that's part of what the character has become this season, someone putting others on the firing line without thought to the consequences. You just knew Beckett was going to leave the precinct, but what else was she going to do, she's a police Captain afterall.....but magnetic ceilings, truth drugs, come on, way over the top. As to the ending, not the family plus children but the final sentiment I thought The Hollywood Reporter summed it up best.....

 

"Beckett was an autonomous character. Yes, Castle had the mother and kid and the show had his name, but Beckett was a character. She wasn't just there to enable Castle's creative fiction. She wasn't just there to be an inspiration for a male writer. She's not an embodiment of male fantasy. That's what the ending makes her into. It completely sells out her personhood in much the same way a certain Fox series dispatched with its female lead earlier this spring by making her into an instrument of male deliverance and undoing everything about her as a character. The conclusion of these eight years of TV should not have been, "Oh, that Beckett. She totally inspired Richard Castle."

I feel this is oversimplifying things.  So much of the show is from Castle's perspective, it has his name, etc.  I thought it was an appropriate end to the series for him to talk about how she inspired him. It doesn't undo any of what we saw her do, as her own person, throughout the course of the series.

[oberon55]

36 minutes ago, Lee4U said:

Even after getting up this a.m., I still believe they are actually dead - and, I'm fine with that.  It's actually a lot more gutsy of an ending than anything else they did so far - so, for me, they are dead.  If the writers say they didn't die, then cool. 

Hell Beckett & Castle died a long time ago. We just didn't notice. It's almost straight out of Invasion of the Body Snatchers. Instead of using pods they systematically stripped them both of the traits that made them characters with unique personalities & slowly turned them into the cardboard cookie cutter plot devices we ended up with. By the end the only thing these two had in common with the characters we met in the pilot is that they are still named Beckett & Castle. May they rest in peace.

[madmaverick]

8 hours ago, westwingfan said:

Wouldn't do to have us all thinking the same. I would have given up on the show ages ago if it wasn't for her. His "I love you" in the park epitomised to me how lacking he can be in the romantic scenes, conveyed absolutely no emotion whatsoever, Stana has had to carry the Caskett scenes for some time, his best scene was probably as he was forced to divulge the info to Loksat's right hand man, he put some emotion into that.

I disagree that Castle's "I love you" in the park was empty of emotion.  I think Nathan actually made a pretty good acting choice to convey what Castle was feeling in that moment.  Beckett had just told him not to make 'that face', which was the burdened, subdued face of worry and glumness.  He was dead worried it would all go sideways when they separated, and it showed despite his restraint.  He tried to reassure Beckett but he could barely bring himself to smile because of his fears.   I thought he was also excellent in the scene where he was forced to name his love ones.   

I actually kind of needed to see more emoting from Beckett when she was told her husband was in the incinerator.  In the incinerator!  Burnt to a crisp!  Maybe she was going for stoic, maybe she didn't quite believe it, but I wanted to see a more agonised reaction from her in that moment.  Stana underplayed it a bit to me. 

1 hour ago, Noggin said:

Well at least we got a happy ending of sorts, many of the professional critics seem less than happy with the show and in many respects I agree with them. Of course Castle had to get himself kidnapped after promising his wife he would stay put but sadly that's part of what the character has become this season, someone putting others on the firing line without thought to the consequences. You just knew Beckett was going to leave the precinct, but what else was she going to do, she's a police Captain afterall.....but magnetic ceilings, truth drugs, come on, way over the top. As to the ending, not the family plus children but the final sentiment I thought The Hollywood Reporter summed it up best.....

I'm sorry, but if there's been someone who put others on the firing line without thought to the consequences since this whole stupid thing started, it's Beckett!  I don't see how being a police captain excuses Beckett from the stupidity of her decision to leave the precinct on her own to chase a lead without telling anyone where she was going and what she was doing!  Right after she'd promised her husband she would stay, but sadly it doesn't seem like her promises to her husband count for much anymore.  And the boys, too.  Does Beckett have some sort of hero/savior complex?  I think it's a valid question after all her actions.  But there aren't real costs to her on a show like Castle so perhaps that's why the character isn't shown as having learnt anything or being mistaken in her choices.

If they'd both been smart and not subjected to dumb plot machinations, neither would have left their safe place and neither would have gotten involved in this reckless crusade by themselves without backup in the first place!  Beckett should have used authorised channels and gotten proper back up if we're taking this whole plot seriously. ;)  As it is, she should be subject to massive disciplinary action if this were in any way like real life.

1 hour ago, Noggin said:

"Beckett was an autonomous character. Yes, Castle had the mother and kid and the show had his name, but Beckett was a character. She wasn't just there to enable Castle's creative fiction. She wasn't just there to be an inspiration for a male writer. She's not an embodiment of male fantasy. That's what the ending makes her into. It completely sells out her personhood in much the same way a certain Fox series dispatched with its female lead earlier this spring by making her into an instrument of male deliverance and undoing everything about her as a character. The conclusion of these eight years of TV should not have been, "Oh, that Beckett. She totally inspired Richard Castle."

I agree with a lot of that article but I disagree with this point.  Beckett being described as Castle's 'muse' was by no means her sole and defining identity on the show that robbed her of her personhood or her agency at all. Quite the opposite.  She was always in charge of her own actions, and Castle was more often than not the follower.  Beckett was described as Castle's muse as a callback to how their relationship started to begin with, that between a writer and a muse, and the show referenced that again to show how they'd come full circle, and become so much more.  The implication was never to reduce Beckett to just being Castle's muse, as if that was some subservient role, and anyone who had watched the show should know that to be patently untrue.  The concluding voiceover being from Castle's pov isn't unusual as lots of shows do conclude with thoughts from the titular character, be they male or female, and it's not like Beckett didn't get to chime in at the end, either.  If we look at the finale as a whole, it was all driven by Beckett's fight for justice from Locksat that she dragged everyone else into.  If that's not giving a character agency, then what is?  

[pennben]

Oh man, Lee Lofland is not going to like Beckett being disarmed yet again!!:) 

[Lamb18]

I just feel sad the show is over. I also feel sad that this show didn't stay as good as it was in the beginning and it could have if the writers, production, etc. really tried. If the show had continued and Stana stayed with it, I think Beckett having children would have been OK if written well. I would have liked to have seen Captain Beckett maintain her career while being a mother (something millions of women do every day) and Castle being all goofy about it.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Interesting...

@Snoodit For the record, the generic statement from the #Castle showrunners is the only press they’re doing: bit.ly/1R5tGCu

 

@Snoodit Postmortem interviews booked before news of the cancellation were abandoned today. #Castle

[Guest]

Oh, and knowing it was a series finale, I got a little teary when Ryan and Esposito insisted on helping and said "We're not going to let you go into war without your best soldiers."

[KaveDweller]

27 minutes ago, deaja said:

I feel this is oversimplifying things.  So much of the show is from Castle's perspective, it has his name, etc.  I thought it was an appropriate end to the series for him to talk about how she inspired him. It doesn't undo any of what we saw her do, as her own person, throughout the course of the series.

Also, that voiceover was what they used to play at the beginning of every episode. I thought they were just doing a callback to that. I don't think it was insulting to Beckett. "A writer and his muse" was always the premise of the show.

Like I said in the live thread, Castle and Beckett both broke their promise.  Equal opportunity bashing should be going on.

The scene with Castle giving up his family was the first time I've been impressed with his acting. He was really great. I thought Stana also did well with her scene of thinking Castle was dead. It was much more understated, but that's in character, I think. And honestly the fact that both of them got through this episode without laughing is a major achievement.

[pennben]

4 minutes ago, FlickerToAFlame said:

Interesting...

@Snoodit For the record, the generic statement from the #Castle showrunners is the only press they’re doing: bit.ly/1R5tGCu

 

@Snoodit Postmortem interviews booked before news of the cancellation were abandoned today. #Castle

Honestly, what would they have to say really? They had a vision, it was cancelled.  I'm sure they could try, but really this is not how they saw this show ending. I have no problem with no words from them at this point.

[metaphor]

1 minute ago, FlickerToAFlame said:

Interesting...

@Snoodit For the record, the generic statement from the #Castle showrunners is the only press they’re doing: bit.ly/1R5tGCu

 

@Snoodit Postmortem interviews booked before news of the cancellation were abandoned today. #Castle

That's curious. Showrunners of other shows do post-mortem interviews after series finales, after all. And showrunners of suddenly-cancelled shows do so, too, often discussing what might have been. I'd have liked to hear their reasoning for the choices they made with regard to the season as a whole, or even just the finale itself. Do they really not want to answer questions at all? 

[pennben]

You say  potahto, and I say potato.  Let's call the whole thing off!:)

[Noggin]

38 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

I disagree that Castle's "I love you" in the park was empty of emotion.  I think Nathan actually made a pretty good acting choice to convey what Castle was feeling in that moment.  Beckett had just told him not to make 'that face', which was the burdened, subdued face of worry and glumness.  He was dead worried it would all go sideways when they separated, and it showed despite his restraint.  He tried to reassure Beckett but he could barely bring himself to smile because of his fears.   I thought he was also excellent in the scene where he was forced to name his love ones.   

I actually kind of needed to see more emoting from Beckett when she was told her husband was in the incinerator.  In the incinerator!  Burnt to a crisp!  Maybe she was going for stoic, maybe she didn't quite believe it, but I wanted to see a more agonised reaction from her in that moment.  Stana underplayed it a bit to me. 

I'm sorry, but if there's been someone who put others on the firing line without thought to the consequences since this whole stupid thing started, it's Beckett!  I don't see how being a police captain excuses Beckett from the stupidity of her decision to leave the precinct on her own to chase a lead without telling anyone where she was going and what she was doing!  Right after she'd promised her husband she would stay, but sadly it doesn't seem like her promises to her husband count for much anymore.  And the boys, too.  Does Beckett have some sort of hero/savior complex?  I think it's a valid question after all her actions.  But there aren't real costs to her on a show like Castle so perhaps that's why the character isn't shown as having learnt anything or being mistaken in her choices.

If they'd both been smart and not subjected to dumb plot machinations, neither would have left their safe place and neither would have gotten involved in this reckless crusade by themselves without backup in the first place!  Beckett should have used authorised channels and gotten proper back up if we're taking this whole plot seriously. ;)  As it is, she should be subject to massive disciplinary action if this were in any way like real life.

I agree with a lot of that article but I disagree with this point.  Beckett being described as Castle's 'muse' was by no means her sole and defining identity on the show that robbed her of her personhood or her agency at all. Quite the opposite.  She was always in charge of her own actions, and Castle was more often than not the follower.  Beckett was described as Castle's muse as a callback to how their relationship started to begin with, that between a writer and a muse, and the show referenced that again to show how they'd come full circle, and become so much more.  The implication was never to reduce Beckett to just being Castle's muse, as if that was some subservient role, and anyone who had watched the show should know that to be patently untrue.  The concluding voiceover being from Castle's pov isn't unusual as lots of shows do conclude with thoughts from the titular character, be they male or female, and it's not like Beckett didn't get to chime in at the end, either.  If we look at the finale as a whole, it was all driven by Beckett's fight for justice from Locksat that she dragged everyone else into.  If that's not giving a character agency, then what is?  

Well I think we can both show cases of a cavalier attitude shown by both characters with regards to their actions and I understand that you think Beckett has few redeeming features. The acting by both in this episode was pretty mediocre, perhaps neither really wanted to be there or thought the story lame and could not throw themselves into the role they did not fully believe anymore.

The series needed to end, the last couple of seasons were poor, perhaps with better leadership from producers and clearer guidance and commitment from management about the future things could have been different, I simply old not see a season 9 being successful.

[madmaverick]

10 hours ago, Driad said:

Loksat was clearly, among other things, the doorman to Castle's building.

Haha.  Still funny.  Someone needs to write The Mystery of Castle's Bulding Doorman. ;)

8 hours ago, turnitwayup said:

Castle had no idea how badly secure his loft really is when he told Montgomery that his loft was the safest place in the city in Boom.

When Beckett said the precinct was super safe, I was waiting for it to blow up or Locksat to barge in. 

Quote

 

Good thing that the show was cancelled, cause poor Jim Beckett. Out of the country on business and imagine him finding out on the phone from Castle that Beckett died going after LokSat. We never even found out his feelings about the separation or if he even knew about LokSat. Kinda sad that Jim's last scene on screen was being a glorified extra at the wedding and drinking from a champagne glass.

That champagne glass really was an abomination.  As a lawyer, Jim Beckett would have told her dear daughter that Locksat doesn't make sense!!  Then again, Locksat was also a lawyer cum baddie cum greatest detective ever, so go figure. ;)

1 hour ago, Lee4U said:

In the end, I am disappointed that the show which began with quite a bit of potential as a good old fashioned screwball comedy/romance turned into this miserable lump of irrational drama.  The never-dying-out trope of a cop/doctor/whatever having gone into their profession because of some horrible personal tragedy or mystery (as in this show) always signals to me they are following the usual crappy playbook and then filling in between the lines along the way but you always get the stupid drawwwnnnn out getting together of the ultimate romantic partners, the inevitable first, second, third break up of said partners, then the last episode/scene where they finally end on a purportedly happy note.  

It's all by the book on the networks - at least cable can mix it up and show some creativity along the way.  

These sorts of writers should never be allowed an interesting, provocative show - ever. 

I wish the show had stayed a light hearted, witty, screwball comedy/romance.  Is there no market for those anymore?  You can do a basic idea but do it really well.  But obviously showrunners past and present had greater ambitions. ;)  Agree that trope isn't dying out anytime soon and I expect every network show to follow that tired old formula.  Really tired of every protagonist having have to have some personal tragedy or mystery in their background.  Maybe that's why I found Castle the character so refreshing with his happy go luck, irreverent joie de vivre.  Balanced with Beckett, they made it work. Then again, I'm not sure if the Castle writers were capable of truly interesting, provocative, original storytelling.  Every time they tried to take a 'risk' so to speak, I don't feel it was conceived or executed well.  It's interesting that the writers for these procedural shows tend to migrate to other procedural shows rather than make the jump to cable shows.  I don't know if there's also some sort of writer hierarchy.

36 minutes ago, deaja said:

Oh, and knowing it was a series finale, I got a little teary when Ryan and Esposito insisted on helping and said "We're not going to let you go into war without your best soldiers."

Every time I saw Ryan and Esposito I was annoyed all over again that Beckett hadn't chosen to confide in them but in Vikram!  Still a waste of air time till the end.  Did not care at all if he resigned or not.

32 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

And honestly the fact that both of them got through this episode without laughing is a major achievement.

True that.  I can just imagine Bowman super seriously, artistically directing them to writhe on the floor and hold hands, and I just want to laugh.

And damn Bowman deprived us of that beautiful promo shot where Caskett are nuzzling together and Castle's eyes are closed.  I think he opted for the silhouette shot at that moment so that we couldn't see their facial expressions.  *shakesfist*

Bummer.  Did Martha get any lines at all in the episode?  Or just an "oh darling!"?  I think Alexis barely got any, which should please some people here heh.  At least Lanie got a 'moment', all things considered. 

Quote

I understand that you think Beckett has few redeeming features

I actually think Beckett has many great qualities and had made great strides to be an even better person in her life, but in this specific instance of her single minded pursuit of Locksat, I still have big problems with her choice to do it at all costs and to do it the way she did, and I do consider it a setback for her character.  If the writers had shown her reflecting more on the cost of her choices on those around her, then I would have felt more empathetic, but in the end, I'm not sure she regretted anything.  It's tough because I like her a a character and want to root for her, but found myself hard pressed to agree with her recent choices no matter her good intentions. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by madmaverick

[Cyranetta]

I watched it live, and the first 5-minute impression was that if I had happened to be drinking even something as mild as beer and took a sip every time someone said "Loksat," I would need to be hospitalized by the end.

Castle and Beckett both managing to escape an incredibly furious barrage of gunfire just kind of finalized the "nonsense" stamp, so I let everything else stutter by without trying to make sense of it.

I was also impressed by NF's acting in the interrogation scene and in his actions once he was free I could see a glimpse of a series where he could play a more intense spy character, and I might be tempted to watch it (as long as the character's name wasn't Castle).

I hope some day, someone again makes a series with two charismatic characters in a blend of comedy and drama (but way light on suspense), but there's no temptation to make it something else.

[TWP]

4 minutes ago, Cyranetta said:

I hope some day, someone again makes a series with two charismatic characters in a blend of comedy and drama (but way light on suspense), but there's no temptation to make it something else.

Marlowe is shopping a show called "Take Two"....do you think he's learned anything from Castle?

[KaveDweller]

37 minutes ago, metaphor said:

That's curious. Showrunners of other shows do post-mortem interviews after series finales, after all. And showrunners of suddenly-cancelled shows do so, too, often discussing what might have been. I'd have liked to hear their reasoning for the choices they made with regard to the season as a whole, or even just the finale itself. Do they really not want to answer questions at all? 

Yeah, I get they may not be happy their Castle PI thing didn't work out, but if you had already scheduled interviews, man up and do the interview. Even the Sopranos show runner died one interview after their hated finale.

Bummer.  Did Martha get any lines at all in the episode?  Or just an "oh darling!"?  I think Alexis barely got any, which should please some people here heh.  At least Lanie got a 'moment', all things considered. 

Alexis actually still annoyed me. In that last scene where she was hugging Castle she did this thing where she leaned in and just rested her head on Castle's chest while staring over at Beckett. It seemed really weird for an "adult" father/daughter relationship. But maybe I'm just cold hearted about that kind of thing.

So weird that Beckett never interacted with them, but that's kinda what to expect with them. I once joked that maybe the real feud BTS was between Stana and Molly, but now I'm actually starting to wonder....

[S55]

Can't say I'm terribly surprised that the showrunners aren't doing post-finale interviews. When I read their "statement" last night, I suspected that was it. I imagine they both want to avoid answering difficult questions now that the show is over. 

[madmaverick]

5 minutes ago, S55 said:

Can't say I'm terribly surprised that the showrunners aren't doing post-finale interviews. When I read their "statement" last night, I suspected that was it. I imagine they both want to avoid answering difficult questions now that the show is over. 

They probably see no upside to their careers to do interviews now and definitely want to avoid the tough questions.  Their prerogative, but they fall further in my estimation as showrunners in how they've handled things in terms of facing the public (or not).  Part of being a showrunner is taking responsibility.  It will be interesting if both get hired as showrunners for another show or get demoted back to being writers.

6 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Yeah, I get they may not be happy their Castle PI thing didn't work out, but if you had already scheduled interviews, man up and do the interview. Even the Sopranos show runner died one interview after their hated finale.

:o  Assuming you mean 'did' and not 'died' even if it's The Sopranos!  I thought their finale was epic?  Never watched but read about it.

6 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

Alexis actually still annoyed me. In that last scene where she was hugging Castle she did this thing where she leaned in and just rested her head on Castle's chest while staring over at Beckett. It seemed really weird for an "adult" father/daughter relationship. But maybe I'm just cold hearted about that kind of thing.

So weird that Beckett never interacted with them, but that's kinda what to expect with them. I once joked that maybe the real feud BTS was between Stana and Molly, but now I'm actually starting to wonder....

I didn't find the Alexis/Castle hug weird as they've hugged like that before...and they do have a close relationship.  But I do absolutely agree that it's weird that Beckett, more often than not, still seemed to be an outsider looking into that family unit of 3.  The writers never seemed interested in forging a deeper bond between Beckett/Alexis or even Beckett/Martha except on rare occasions, although I would say sadly even Castle/Martha/Alexis scenes seemed to get more superficial by the season.  I did wonder too if Stana and Molly had any issues....shh... but Marlowe seemed fond of both and yet never wrote them together much.

16 minutes ago, TWP said:

Marlowe is shopping a show called "Take Two"....do you think he's learned anything from Castle?

Won't know till around S4 if it even lasts that long, if I even watch. ;)  But the premise being similar to Castle makes me wonder if he's interested/capable of doing another type of show altogether.  The best creatives to me are the ones who can really inhabit different universes and genres with their unique brand of storytelling.

[pennben]

32 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

But I do absolutely agree that it's weird that Beckett, more often than not, still seemed to be an outsider looking into that family unit of 3.  The writers never seemed interested in forging a deeper bond between Beckett/Alexis or even Beckett/Martha except on rare occasions, although I would say sadly even Castle/Martha/Alexis scenes seemed to get more superficial by the season.

As I was watching the episode, I had in my mind that they were going to kill Beckett (I was viewing it from eyes as though it was renewed, even though I knew it wasn't)  And, I think we are talking about the same scene, there was a cage wall (or screen) between Castle, Alexis, Martha, on the one hand, and Beckett, on the other. And there was this shot where they showed the three looking back at Beckett, smiling, and she was on her own, and there was just this closeup of her looking back at them.  I wanted to vomit a bit, because I thought it would end with those three being okay and Beckett being gone (assuming the show had been renewed). 

I'm not sure what I'm saying, but, ooof, while I can see a way to a S9, that was awful and that was not the way.  Honestly, it felt like a moment of "let's smile at Beckett", she's out of here (assuming that the show would be renewed). That rattled me. It was as though they were saying she doesn't belong, she's gone.

Edited May 17, 2016 by pennben

[KaveDweller]

:o  Assuming you mean 'did' and not 'died' even if it's The Sopranos!  I thought their finale was epic?  Never watched but read about it.

I didn't watch either but they ended on a cliffhanger. It just cut to black in the middle of a scene and everyone thought their TVs weren't working. Or something. People were pissed.

I didn't find the Alexis/Castle hug weird as they've hugged like that before...and they do have a close relationship.

I've thought it was weird before too, lol.

[Noggin]

16 minutes ago, pennben said:

As I was watching the episode, I had in my mind that they were going to kill Beckett.  And, I think we are talking about the same scene, there was a cage wall (or screen) between Castle, Alexis, Martha, on the one hand, and Beckett, on the other. And there was this shot where they showed the three looking back at Beckett, smiling, and she was on her own, and there was just this closeup of her looking back at them.  I wanted to vomit a bit, because I thought it would end with those three being okay and Beckett being gone (assuming the show had been renewed). 

I'm not sure what I'm saying, but, ooof, while I can see a way to a S9, that was awful and that was not the way.  Honestly, it felt like a moment of "let's smile at Beckett", she's out of here (assuming that the show would be renewed). That rattled me.

Yes, the whole episode was I think supposed to lead to Beckett's death and just leave the 'family' which she was never really part of, even Hayley was written in the the role as some sort of surrogate for much of the season. It's all very sad and symptomatic of what was wrong with the season and production team.

[FlickerToAFlame]

Do you guys think the implication is Beckett was pregnant when she was shot? Lily looked 5 or 6, so 7 years later would work. 

[madmaverick]

10 minutes ago, FlickerToAFlame said:

Do you guys think the implication is Beckett was pregnant when she was shot? Lily looked 5 or 6, so 7 years later would work. 

I've no idea. I suppose it's still possible an embryo would have survived her being shot.  Doesn't really matter to me one way or the other but I'm sure fanfic writers will get on it.

Little Caskett babies

Good casting with the kids.  The girl looks like a mini Beckett and the twin boys look like mini Castles.

I confess I'm a little disappointed the kids' names sound so... normal.  I wasn't expecting Cosmo or anything, or Johanna, but an homage to writers might have been fun.

Apparently Castle still wears the same plaid shirt after 7 years heh.  Oh, Luke.  Beckett actually looked a bit preggers to me at the breakfast table with the way she was sitting.  

Quote

 

Luke Reichle ‏@RedCarpetLuke 

Yes, @NathanFillion wears a shirt of Tyrian Purple, a shade so rare (now extinct) it was reserved only for royalty.

 

One last laugh courtesy of Luke although I will say that purple shirt worn by Castle in whatever Lannister shade it was in heh was one of his better wardrobe pics.  The jacket though, still ugly!  Surprised he didn't dress Beckett in her badass black turtleneck. 

And lol at Luke calling Bowman his straight boyfriend.

[FlickerToAFlame]

6 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

I've no idea. I suppose it's still possible an embryo would have survived her being shot.  Doesn't really matter to me one way or the other but I'm sure fanfic writers will get on it.

Little Caskett babies

Good casting with the kids.  The girl looks like a mini Beckett and the twin boys look like mini Castles.

I confess I'm a little disappointed the kids' names sound so... normal.  I wasn't expecting Cosmo or anything, or Johanna, but an homage to writers might have been fun.

Apparently Castle still wears the same plaid shirt after 7 years heh.  Oh, Luke.  Beckett actually looked a bit preggers to me at the breakfast table with the way she was sitting.  

One last laugh courtesy of Luke although I will say that purple shirt worn by Castle in whatever Lannister shade it was in heh was one of his better wardrobe pics.  The jacket though, still ugly!  Surprised he didn't dress Beckett in her badass black turtleneck. 

And lol at Luke calling Bowman his straight boyfriend.

You're right about the fanfiction:

 

https://m.fanfiction.net/s/11951166/1/Against-all-odds

[verdana]

The writers gave very little time and attention to anything but Locksat that was the most disappointing aspect, I wish they had wrapped the whole Locksat business up earlier, very few cared about it any way at this point. The dialogue was heavy handed and I wasn't that overly impressed with the acting once again aside from a a few moments from Nathan. I felt sorry for Jon, Seamus and the rest of the regulars they deserved better, no chance to see what they were up to 7 years down the line but that's par for the course on this show - they were increasingly used mostly as exposition monkeys to the leads and the show suffered for it. 

 

Locksat got a mention five times in the preview alone and over a dozen times in the first five minutes, as someone mentioned up thread if this had a been a drinking game I'd have been on the floor before the opening credits even started.  It's such awful writing, they couldn't be bothered to do any significant plotting about this story arc all season long and then in the finale go to the other extreme as if I should give a crap at this point - their story telling SUCKED, Hawley and Winter don't deserve to helm another show after this crapfest. 

 

Watching a guy being burned to death in car with the contrast in the upbeat music I found terribly jarring but that's been a symptom of this season the way they've handled death no longer quirky just distasteful. That sort of thing belongs on another show, not the Castle I knew. I shared Ryan's feelings at the scene.

 

"Could my  ex wife be Locksat because in a lot of ways that would make perfect sense"- frankly it would have been been way more interesting than the actual reveal of Mason which had me shaking my head they'd chosen a character most fans had probably all but forgotten about as the ultimate big bad.   

[pcta]

Personally, I'm going with the last 8 years were Castles books and he doesn't write women love interests very well.  The only reality is the scene at the end.  The delightful Castle of the first few seasons was a boring, hen pecked author's alter ego.  He wrote pot boilers that did well enough to get him an expensive place to live in Manhattan and silly man he gave his wife credit for inspiration.

[verdana]

"I want to go back to being boring" You were always boring Vikram and creepy too.

The rescue from the shoot out by Mason was ridiculous. It's bizarre how they go from surviving a massive shoot out against guys with automatic weapons which was completely implausible to making jokes about the BBQ truck - it should be funny but it got me eye rolling. "Castle this is a trap!" Yeah and you're a police captain who should know better about going any where without back up and playing secret sleuthing with creepy Vikram helping her out on a case.

Doesn't she have a JOB back at the precinct to do rather than facing a team of highly armed shooters who conveniently can't seem to hit anything? Does any one miss her when she's out? There was enough gun fire to raise the dead but no one noticed in the area or called the police station?  Apparently the truck is impervious to heavy weapons fire too. Lucky!  

She then talks about disappearing along with Castle, hello you're running a police precinct! What does she think is going to happen she can just come and go at will? Beckett's transition to captain has been a waste of time and actually regressed the character. And only now she's worried about the boys and everyone's safety and them being sitting ducks? The idea she'd be safe and sound at the precinct where the likes of 3XK had a ball coming and going was again laughable.

Castle leaves to go to the precinct and of course gets kidnapped again.  

"I was raised by the state" huh? 

If I was Castle I'd be angry that my selfish and stubborn wife and got me in a position where I was almost certainly going to get killed and my family too all for her desire to hunt out Locksat.  The moment he has to reveal that Martha and Alexis know was well done by Fillion, he's better when he's not having to try and pretend he wants to get touchy feely with Beckett. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by verdana

[KaveDweller]

39 minutes ago, madmaverick said:

I've no idea. I suppose it's still possible an embryo would have survived her being shot.  Doesn't really matter to me one way or the other but I'm sure fanfic writers will get on it.

Little Caskett babies

Good casting with the kids.  The girl looks like a mini Beckett and the twin boys look like mini Castles.

I confess I'm a little disappointed the kids' names sound so... normal.  I wasn't expecting Cosmo or anything, or Johanna, but an homage to writers might have been fun.

Apparently Castle still wears the same plaid shirt after 7 years heh.  Oh, Luke.  Beckett actually looked a bit preggers to me at the breakfast table with the way she was sitting.  

One last laugh courtesy of Luke although I will say that purple shirt worn by Castle in whatever Lannister shade it was in heh was one of his better wardrobe pics.  The jacket though, still ugly!  Surprised he didn't dress Beckett in her badass black turtleneck. 

And lol at Luke calling Bowman his straight boyfriend.

They didn't say the names on the show, so I think we get to make up the names themselves. 

I would be surprised if a baby could have survived Beckett getting shot in the stomach. Plus I like the idea that Castle and Beckett had a little time by the themselves where they got to go on all those vacations they've been talking about.

I think the show runners must have really thought they were getting renewed. If they thought there was a chance this was the finale, they probably would have done a little more to have character moments. 

[metaphor]

1 hour ago, Noggin said:

Yes, the whole episode was I think supposed to lead to Beckett's death and just leave the 'family' which she was never really part of, even Hayley was written in the the role as some sort of surrogate for much of the season. It's all very sad and symptomatic of what was wrong with the season and production team.

I think the scene that drove this whole point home for me was the Castle/Alexis/Martha reunion scene at the precinct, with Castle hugging his mother and daughter and mouthing a thank you to Hayley. It was such a strong callback to Alexis being reunited with her father and mother and the look she shared with Beckett in Cops and Robbers. And since TPW cowrote this episode, it seemed intentional. It felt so odd that Beckett was so removed from that family scene. Odd and sad. 

[oberon55]

10 minutes ago, KaveDweller said:

I think the show runners must have really thought they were getting renewed. If they thought there was a chance this was the finale, they probably would have done a little more to have character moments.

Going by the fact that their previous character moments were smelling shirts & naked twister I doubt we missed much.

[verdana]

Beckett has never been allowed to be part of the family in any genuine way, I honestly do wonder if there was something going on BTS there too between Molly and Stana, because it's so weird they seem to almost deliberately keep them apart, not just these writers but Marlowe too.  If it wasn't that then I'd love to know what their reasoning was for treating Beckett and Alexis like they couldn't be in the same room together for too long in case one of them spontaneously combusted or something. 

I've seen people more distressed about missing the bus than Beckett was over the realisation her husband had apparently been barbequed. 

I love the boys, Seamus and Jon have been the best things for me this season in this pile of crud from what little I've seen,  I hope they find something better to do than be glorified exposition monkeys and God forbid get a job which involves some character development. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by verdana

[verdana]

4 hours ago, madmaverick said:

I'm sorry, but if there's been someone who put others on the firing line without thought to the consequences since this whole stupid thing started, it's Beckett!  I don't see how being a police captain excuses Beckett from the stupidity of her decision to leave the precinct on her own to chase a lead without telling anyone where she was going and what she was doing!  Right after she'd promised her husband she would stay, but sadly it doesn't seem like her promises to her husband count for much anymore.  And the boys, too.  Does Beckett have some sort of hero/savior complex?  I think it's a valid question after all her actions.  But there aren't real costs to her on a show like Castle so perhaps that's why the character isn't shown as having learnt anything or being mistaken in her choices.

If they'd both been smart and not subjected to dumb plot machinations, neither would have left their safe place and neither would have gotten involved in this reckless crusade by themselves without backup in the first place!  Beckett should have used authorised channels and gotten proper back up if we're taking this whole plot seriously. ;)  As it is, she should be subject to massive disciplinary action if this were in any way like real life.

I couldn't agree more with your comments on Beckett and her actions madmaverick, another reason I disliked the Locksat business was because it made Beckett look self absorbed, uncaring and stupidly ignorant of the danger she had wilfully stepped into, I don't normally subscribe to violence against any one but I seriously wanted to slap some sense into her when she was talking in the car to Mason. 

There was no reason for her to get them involved in all this case - yet she did it any way and Castle lamely went along with it when he should have made her sit down and discuss it properly if not for his sake then for his family's.  If Alexis and Martha had died I doubt in real life Castle would have been quite so forgiving of his wife and her burden of responsibility and they would be struggling to hold it together, more likely it would have emotionally destroyed him the so called "love of her life". She's got a funny way of showing it with this Locksat conspiracy. She took an oath as a police officer but I'm sure it didn't involve acting like she's taking part in some glorified crusade. 

Given how Locksat are so dangerous quite why her dad being on business protects him I don't know.  She talked about carrying a burden and that she had to gain justice for the victims but I wonder how she would have reacted if her husband or his mother and only child had been killed due to her obsessive need to hunt down Locksat? Where does it all end? Someone should have put the question to her surely? At the end of the episode I don't believe any lessons were learn't there was no character growth for Beckett or Castle this season only regression - especially Beckett. 

There should have been consequences to her secret investigation - severe ones - both personally and professionally if they were going to have Locksat have any impact on me emotionally.  I needed something and I didn't get it, the story had no impact on me whatsoever, there was no journey to get invested in, no nerves, no excitement, no fear, the writers clearly were aimless and lacked inspiration, even the ending was recycled elements from Marlowe's time. Hawley didn't bring one fresh idea to the table. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by verdana

[turnitwayup]

8 minutes ago, verdana said:

Beckett has never been allowed to be part of the family in any genuine way, I honestly do wonder if there was something going on BTS there too between Molly and Stana, because it's so weird they seem to almost deliberately keep them apart, not just these writers but Marlowe too.  If it wasn't that then I'd love to know what their reasoning was for treating Beckett and Alexis like they couldn't be in the same room together for too long in case one of them spontaneously combusted or something. 

Ikr? It was such a disservice to both characters that they didn't grow closer and we had to see a forced Alexis/Haley bond this season. I figure she had a hero worship and would take Nathan's side no matter what. She kinda proved it with her insensitive Nathan is Castle tweet. Molly changing her look this season sort of makes sense since her boyfriend is apparently a bachelor producer and 10 yrs older than her. I would kinda enjoy it if she was casted on UnREAL as one of the contestants since she's at the age of a typical contestant.

[pennben]

I will always be sad that there wasn't more Beckett/Alexis.  I mean that. That's all I have to say about that.

[hnygrl]

Well that was anticlimactic.

It is glaringly obvious that they meant for this to be a season ending cliffhanger with us coming back in September to a dead Beckett and a mourning Castle.

That tack-on in the last 23 seconds was a confusing joke. If they were going to do a bullshit tag like that it should've been at elast 5 minutes long.

Ah well. They played too fast and too loose with the viewing public's emotions and we turned on them. At least they didn't destroy the show's canon like How I Met Your Mother did. Although the last 3 seasons were (in my opinion) completely and utterly un-watchable.

[readster]

25 minutes ago, pennben said:

I will always be sad that there wasn't more Beckett/Alexis.  I mean that. That's all I have to say about that.

No, I think they missed some great stuff there between Beckett and Alexis. I mean, Alexis was her step daughter. Granted grown up, but still, the interactions were so missed by both show runners and trying to make her uber junior detective was way too far fetched. Something also, with the 7 year jump forward. Now, an almost 30 year old Alexis has siblings that are almost 25 years younger than her. That would have been very interesting. 

[newyawk]

Not sure how anyone can blame Beckett for "putting anyone on the firing line" when she worked (as usual with these kinds of things) to keep it a SECRET from those she loved and only said anything once she was put on the hot seat by them. Castle, Ryan and Esposito forced their way into the LockSat situation, they weren't invited.

[verdana]

11 minutes ago, newyawk said:

Not sure how anyone can blame Beckett for "putting anyone on the firing line" when she worked (as usual with these kinds of things) to keep it a SECRET from those she loved and only said anything once she was put on the hot seat by them. Castle, Ryan and Esposito forced their way into the LockSat situation, they weren't invited.

That's the problem she's wasn't open about what she was doing with the very people she needed to be, she tried to handle it on her own when she had no business to be getting involved in any kind of secret investigation given her job and leaving other people out the loop on something that could get them killed.   The fact she had to be pushed into revealing what was going on at various times due to forced circumstances not of her own volition only made it worse. She has a duty of care to her husband, family and work colleagues and she failed to exercise it because she was so hung up on taking Locksat down without appearing to give sufficient consideration to the consequences of her actions as she continued poking around.

I found the whole story arc and the supposed deadly threat Locksat constantly posed was handled far too casually by everyone not just Beckett. 

Edited May 17, 2016 by verdana

[newyawk]

They became targets once they knew. LockSat was only going after people who knew who he was and who were working to stop him. Keeping everyone in the dark was actually protecting them.

[newyawk]

delete

Edited May 17, 2016 by newyawk
System posted twice

[verdana]

12 minutes ago, newyawk said:

They became targets once they knew. LockSat was only going after people who knew who he was and who were working to stop him. Keeping everyone in the dark was actually protecting them.

I thought the various reasons offered by fans as to why she had to keep everything quiet didn't hold up to any firm scrutiny plus Castle is not a child, he had every right to know what was going on given he was married to her and had already been kidnapped and tortured! Castle did not deserve to be deprived of agency, no one does it doesn't matter what excuses are offered up, Beckett of all people should be aware of how that feels.    

Edited May 17, 2016 by verdana

[Noggin]

53 minutes ago, newyawk said:

Not sure how anyone can blame Beckett for "putting anyone on the firing line" when she worked (as usual with these kinds of things) to keep it a SECRET from those she loved and only said anything once she was put on the hot seat by them. Castle, Ryan and Esposito forced their way into the LockSat situation, they weren't invited.

Its merely going to be a matter of opinion I'm afraid....the whole story was nonense, ever since the writers had her leave Castle to protect him. I could never work out how Loksat and his minions could not work out what a sham that was even before Beckett started 'visiting' the loft again. They tried to validate this byt having Rita act surprised that this was a sham, and what about Vikram, surely Loksat knew about him as well. If an FBI team had been wiped out then there would have been Feds from every agency all over the case. Here we seem to only have a precinct Captain and a techie leading the charge while every one else seemed to hang around the edges. A poor story, worthy perhaps of some of Castle's pap fiction but hardly worthy of a major TV network running a show in a prime weekly slot.

 

As an aside here is Joy D'Angelo review..

 

http://www.tvovermind.com/castle/thoughts-castle-season-finale-thank-god-ending

Edited May 17, 2016 by Noggin

[KaveDweller]

20 minutes ago, Noggin said:

Its merely going to be a matter of opinion I'm afraid....the whole story was nonense, ever since the writers had her leave Castle to protect him. I could never work out how Loksat and his minions could not work out what a sham that was even before Beckett started 'visiting' the loft again. They tried to validate this byt having Rita act surprised that this was a sham, and what about Vikram, surely Loksat knew about him as well. If an FBI team had been wiped out then there would have been Feds from every agency all over the case. Here we seem to only have a precinct Captain and a techie leading the charge while every one else seemed to hang around the edges. A poor story, worthy perhaps of some of Castle's pap fiction but hardly worthy of a major TV network running a show in a prime weekly slot.

They went to all that trouble to hide their relationship, but in LA Castle told Mason (AKA LokSat) that they were still together. To his face. I remember people talking about how dumb that was. I guess it was intentional? 

[designing1]

15 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

Yeah, I don't know why they did the empty loft thing. My mother thinks that the voice over meant that the whole show never happened, but the seven years later kind of doesn't make sense if that's the case.

I wasn't watching closely -- all that LokSat stuff bores the hell out of me (I truly have no idea what that whole storyline is about) -- but I agree with both you and your mom. I took it as their version of Bobby Ewing coming out of the shower: Castle talking about finding his muse, cut to the future and everyone's happy as a clam. Show never happened -- those were his books come to life. But the "seven years later" from the time of the shooting then makes no sense; it should be seven years from finding the muse. Maybe it was and I missed something.

All I know for sure is Nathan really looked healthy and wonderful and I'm eager to see what he does next.

Edited May 17, 2016 by designing1

[oberon55]

I don't really remember very well but didn't the lawyer tell Beckett something about her life flashing before her at the end & having regrets about what she would miss out on. Maybe they just added the 7 years later part to make the kids real rather than just in Beckett's mind.

[verdana]

The only bit I didn't get was the pan to the empty loft that made no sense whatsoever, then to the room piled with children's toys. It seems obvious they couldn't even be bothered to take out anything much to alter what seemed to be their original version of a Castle continuing without Beckett - I can only assume they really did assume they were green lit for a S9. Either that or they were being incredibly lazy which is entirely possible.

I also agree with whoever it was who suggested they didn't want them to have three kids like MilMar had said in the the time traveller episode, I could have done without that too and instead had no shoot out garbage and find out what happened to the rest of the gang and then panned to Beckett sitting obviously pregnant or at the table with a baby, I have a hard time imagining that Beckett suddenly cranked out three kids and that Castle wanted a brood like that, he also didn't look any older and with three young kids to take care of he should have look shattered! 

[verdana]

Castle alternative ending

I love this it would have been perfect, forget all the crud that came in between and just tack the last minute of S8 on to the end of 7.23.

Edited May 17, 2016 by verdana

[tankgirl73]

I think I'll take a different mental route -- I'll go up to the wedding. The first wedding. He didn't go off the road. He did get spooked by a black car swooshing past him, and being the paranoid silly creative writer guy that he is, he came up with a story for it. The remaining seasons since then were just his stories. Basically, from his disappearance onwards. That whole bizarre nonsensical storyline was just one of his stories.

What really happened was that they got married that day, and then had kids.

Re-watching the '7 years later' bit again though... I notice that they're holding hands at the end in exactly the same way they're holding hands when they're bleeding out. So I do suspect that they were planning to use that clip either way. I'd guess... the episode ends with them bleeding on the floor. Then season 9 opens with this domestic-bliss scene.... it's all dream-like and fuzzy (and uncharacteristically well-lit)... it ends with them holding hands, the camera lingers on the hands in closeup, then it fades and morphs to their hands as they are still lying on the floor bleeding out. Kate starts muttering, eyes half-closed... "Lily... Reese..."  Castle is slightly more alert and asks what she's talking about. She mumbles something more about "our kids... they're so beautiful..." then she dies.

I like my version better. :p

Edited May 17, 2016 by tankgirl73

[femmefan1946]

but I wonder how she would have reacted if her husband or his mother and only child had been killed due to her obsessive need to hunt down Locksat? Where does it all end? Someone should have put the question to her surely?

In my headcanon the reason Beckett is at home with the children is that 1PP looked into her record and fired her ass for blatant idiocy and getting all those cops she dragged to the CIA headquarters killed.

The force might overlook a few dead civilians, but officers? Nope.

 

And Tyrian Purple is not non-existant. Luke. Not only are there aniline dyes in the colour, but the murex snail is still thriving. More than in Roman times since the aritficial colour is cheaper and more consistent than the one made from the snails.

[verdana]

28 minutes ago, femmefan1946 said:

but I wonder how she would have reacted if her husband or his mother and only child had been killed due to her obsessive need to hunt down Locksat? Where does it all end? Someone should have put the question to her surely?

In my headcanon the reason Beckett is at home with the children is that 1PP looked into her record and fired her ass for blatant idiocy and getting all those cops she dragged to the CIA headquarters killed.

The force might overlook a few dead civilians, but officers? Nope.

That's what I was hoping, it was another thing that bugged me during the flash forward not knowing what she was up to at that point (or Castle for that matter), what was he writing? I'd have hauled her over the carpet the first two days she didn't turn up for work as captain lol.