S02.E12: The Party

[OnceSane]

As Frankie helps her old friend Babe plan a big bash, she's faced with a troubling decision.  Grace tries to make amends to Frankie.

[OnceSane]

I loved Babe and I loved that Frankie helped her…as did Grace by just being there.  And I'm glad Frankie didn't brush aside the horrible things Grace said to her.  I think she may have if Grace hadn't said what she did in front of Frankie's children.

[zxy556575]

I mean ...  it's illegal to help someone commit suicide, so the nonchalant dismissal of that aspect bothered me. Otherwise I thought both sides of the argument were each well represented by Grace and Frankie.

I liked that Frankie stood firm in her hurt feelings and hadn't just hand-waved away Grace's drunken insults.

[Chaos Theory]

That is one of the most intriguing things about the show especially since this is essentialy a comedy.  Hurt lingers.  Even from the beginnin.  Hurt and betrayal don't just go away because we want them to.  They linger.

[possibilities]

There are things I'm still hurt over that happened a long time ago, and I often either criticize myself or am criticized by others for not getting over stuff. So I really liked that Frankie was not backing down on her feelings, or getting Grace off the hook about it. And then I liked that Grace finally did find a way to show her sincerity and make amends. I think I would get over stuff if people showed sincere remorse and did something about it. There are ways to be fallible, and to mess up majorly, without becoming irredeemable. You just have to DO IT, and make the amends proportionate to the original mistake.

[hnygrl]

I had a real problem with them helping babe kill herself. If you touch anything, hand her anything, etc. you are a murderer. She has to do everything. All by herself. you can't lay a finger on any of it. That's how Kavorkian finally got convicted. I had a real problem with that. Seriously. I get it. She was dying. It was gonna be painful. Horrific even. She had a "right" to go out how she wanted to go out but she had absolutely NO RIGHT to ask others to help her! If anybody helps you it's MURDER and THEY go to prison forever. Geeze. I...geeze...that part's probably gonna get fast-forwarded through on re-watch. I just can't with assisted suicide. I just..can't. They made all noble and beautiful but in the real world Grace, Frankie, and the Surfer dude with no shirt would've been detained and questioned at length. Sol, Robert, and Bud would've had to come bail them out and it still wouldn't be over.

[RCharter]

^^I think the majority of the time prosecutors look the other way, assisted suicide is generally not a winnable case unless you're broadcasting what you've done to the world. I imagine its because the jury is so sympathetic and looking for any possible way to not convict.  It would have been better had she not asked Frankie for help, but I'm assuming she fed herself the pudding, and just wanted Frankie to be there to hold her and support her.  If she fed the pudding to herself, knowing what was in it, than I don't see how Frankie is a murderer.  

[zxy556575]

I really liked that Babe was able to love, appreciate, and be a good friend to both Grace and Frankie, different as they are.

If I remember correctly, the beach house was jointly owned by both families but Grace and Frankie made a point of using it at different times so they wouldn't run into each other, which is what allowed Babe to take those long walks with each of them separately.

It was so nice to see Estelle Parsons again. Even though she was in Roseanne for so long, I still think of her as Blanche in Bonnie and Clyde.

Edited May 10, 2016 by lordonia

[Maysie]

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I think the majority of the time prosecutors look the other way, assisted suicide is generally not a winnable case unless you're broadcasting what you've done to the world. I imagine its because the jury is so sympathetic and looking for any possible way to not convict.  It would have been better had she not asked Frankie for help, but I'm assuming she fed herself the pudding, and just wanted Frankie to be there to hold her and support her.  If she fed the pudding to herself, knowing what was in it, than I don't see how Frankie is a murderer.  

There was another Netflix show with a character dying of cancer. Someone else actively dosed her with the morphine to kill her, which seemed off to me. I understood it was for character development, etc., but when someone is able to make the logical decision to end his/her life, and is still able to eat, drink, swallow, etc., it seems unnecessary to have someone else do it for you, such as in the other show. I also figured Frankie's role was to hang on to the pudding until the time was right (I figured Babe didn't want to chance someone at the party inadvertently eating poisoned pudding) and be by her side when she ate the pudding (and maybe do the dishes!). Babe didn't need any of them to do anything, really, but they were a source of comfort for when the time came.

Overall, I thought it was a good episode. I felt like Frankie and Grace started in a realistic place, fresh from Grace's nasty outburst. It made sense that as they dealt with Babe's situation and passing that they were able to put a few things in perspective and move forward - learn from Babe's attitude and example, as it were. The fact that Babe could appreciate and love each of them independently had to have some impact on each of them.

[kaygeeret]

I really loved this episode.

Your view changes a bit when you get to a 'certain' age and face a gradual - or not - decline in all things.

Throw in cancer which you have fought before and understand what that fight means (I am in this group) and you have a new view.

Not a view for everyone - but very, very real believe you me.  I will never in the time left to me, question an older person's decision when faced with a debilitating disease.

Your place in life matters a great deal when faced with end of life.

I loved they addressed the issue at all, and if there were some 'issues' - bah! 

The overall thing of age and disease was addressed - albeit not in depth.  Better than nothing!

[Empress1]

I'm young and healthy (knock wood), and I'm firmly in the pro-death with dignity camp. I'll never judge anyone who makes that choice, at any age, if there are "no good outcomes." (Also, fuck cancer.)

"It's all cool in the pool." Babe was a pistol. I think it's wonderful that she died the way she wanted.

[kaygeeret]

On ‎5‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 7:56 PM, Empress1 said:

I'm young and healthy (knock wood), and I'm firmly in the pro-death with dignity camp. I'll never judge anyone who makes that choice, at any age, if there are "no good outcomes." (Also, fuck cancer.)

"It's all cool in the pool." Babe was a pistol. I think it's wonderful that she died the way she wanted.

I so wish I could like you one million times and implant your acceptance to everyone.

For a variety of family reasons, my "under" generation is completely respectful of any decision we in the 'older' generation make.

I am increasingly loving those that come after me...so thoughtful and loving...and, perhaps even more important..so very accepting of an individual's reality.

Very surprising to me, the 'youngsters' in the family are liking Grace and Frankie and embracing the entire thing.  They sometimes give me the impression that I am all about 'angst' and they are cool with it all!  LOL

Could certainly be true.............

[Jade Foxx]

On May 10, 2016 at 7:10 AM, Maysie said:

There was another Netflix show with a character dying of cancer. Someone else actively dosed her with the morphine to kill her, which seemed off to me. I understood it was for character development, etc., but when someone is able to make the logical decision to end his/her life, and is still able to eat, drink, swallow, etc., it seems unnecessary to have someone else do it for you, such as in the other show. I also figured Frankie's role was to hang on to the pudding until the time was right (I figured Babe didn't want to chance someone at the party inadvertently eating poisoned pudding) and be by her side when she ate the pudding (and maybe do the dishes!). Babe didn't need any of them to do anything, really, but they were a source of comfort for when the time came.

Overall, I thought it was a good episode. I felt like Frankie and Grace started in a realistic place, fresh from Grace's nasty outburst. It made sense that as they dealt with Babe's situation and passing that they were able to put a few things in perspective and move forward - learn from Babe's attitude and example, as it were. The fact that Babe could appreciate and love each of them independently had to have some impact on each of them.

I think the other show was Nurse Jackie, episode "Tiny Bubbles". 

I care for cancer patients professionally, and are alongside them as they go through diagnosis, treatment, some pretty horrible side effects, and often times recurrence. 

They should absolutely be allowed to explore their right to die, on their terms.

And because it can't be said enough - fuck cancer.  

[Maysie]

I was referring to

Spoiler

House of Cards

, which I'm hiding just to be sure. But I'm firmly on the side of people being able to choose their own paths; I've had enough people I love and care about suffer through an unpleasant death. It takes a lot of courage to do what Babe did.

[AuntieMame]

On 5/13/2016 at 9:21 PM, kaygeeret said:

I really loved this episode.

Your view changes a bit when you get to a 'certain' age and face a gradual - or not - decline in all things.

Throw in cancer which you have fought before and understand what that fight means (I am in this group) and you have a new view.

Not a view for everyone - but very, very real believe you me.  I will never in the time left to me, question an older person's decision when faced with a debilitating disease.

Your place in life matters a great deal when faced with end of life.

I loved they addressed the issue at all, and if there were some 'issues' - bah! 

The overall thing of age and disease was addressed - albeit not in depth.  Better than nothing!

Chiming in with Fuck Cancer. I have a slow growing type that still almost killed me and keeps me chronically ill and I loved that they finally addressed some issues of aging and illness and the right to die. I've explored this terrain in my mind too and feel that people should be free to choose n these circumstances. I don't feel it's the same as regular suicide. I know doctors float terminally I'll people out on a sea of drugs all the time to make the transition easier. It just isn't talked about. I think the issue with the laws is the slippery slope thing and the issues of eugenics and euthanasia. 

As long as Frankie and the surfer guy weren't broadcasting their actions, why would the police look any farther than "we found her this way. She told us the cancer had recurred and was untreatable." Even if the cops had a suspicion, who would possibly be served by prosecuting these folks?

Kudos Jade Foxx. A good nurse or doctor when you are really sick is an incredible gift and comfort. Patients appreciate it More than you know.

[kaygeeret]

Quote

Chiming in with Fuck Cancer. I have a slow growing type that still almost killed me and keeps me chronically ill and I loved that they finally addressed some issues of aging and illness and the right to die. I've explored this terrain in my mind too and feel that people should be free to choose n these circumstances. I don't feel it's the same as regular suicide

So sorry about your cancer....the truest word my doc ever said to me involved the idea that 'we' will never really know if a random cancer cell escaped and may crop up another day.  I don't "fight" the knowledge, it is just present.

Best of thoughts to you

[AuntieMame]

47 minutes ago, kaygeeret said:

So sorry about your cancer....the truest word my doc ever said to me involved the idea that 'we' will never really know if a random cancer cell escaped and may crop up another day.  I don't "fight" the knowledge, it is just present.

Best of thoughts to you

And to you too and to everyone else here who chimed in whether sick themselves or know someone who is, which covers a lot of ground. We are all affected. 

One thing I love about this show is that it portrays those in the last quarter of life as still people...still want live and friendship, still want work that actualizes, still want to wrangle with their flaws, faults and history. I was just glad to see the show tackle some of the other parts of aging and being mortal. And I liked Babe. I hope that if I get to be an old lady that I can be a cool one. I've always loved feisty old ladies.

[molshoop]

California has an End of Life Option Act  which allows physicians to prescribe drugs to

patients like Babe.  I wont go into all the details, but it requires that someone be there when

the person takes the medication.  It doesn't actually go into effect until June, but I doubt they

are going to be prosecuting anyone for something that will be completely legal in a few months.

[Bastet]

Good for Babe, and good for Frankie and Grace.

I believe Frankie simply made pudding, and the other friend simply wheeled the tank into the room - their way of showing support (whereas Grace's was to be nearby).  But it was Babe who would put the meds in the pudding and eat it, then put the bag over her head, etc.  She wasn't asking anyone to set themselves up for criminal prosecution.

I shall from now on refer to Sol as "This fucking guy."  Works for me.

[Missy Vixen]

We were talking about this episode at 3:30 this morning since we watched it before we fell asleep last night. 

I used to work for a home health care company that had plenty of clients who weren't going to survive. I still remember the debates among office staff discussing pending right-to-die legislation and why they did or did not support it. It should be up to the individual. It's their choice as to whether or not they'd like to end their lives on their own terms. And who could possibly ask another person to prolong their pain and suffering because it was against their religion?

I really appreciate Grace and Frankie's writers. They don't take the easy way out. They continue to write Grace and Frankie's characters in 3D, while the ex-husbands' story fades into the background.

[Bluedog100]

Quote

I believe Frankie simply made pudding,

Sorry....all I could think of was mistaking rat poison for Skinny and Sweet when reading this!

[Bastet]

Well, it looks just like Skinny and Sweet.  Except for the little skull and crossbones on the label.

[mahree]

And did you catch when she was standing in the background with the bowl while Grace and Babe were talking?  She almost ate some, went "Oospie," and put the spoon back in the serving bowl.  I totally got a Violet flashback when she did that.

[paramitch]

I've taken care of two of my four parents through terminal illness, and watched cancer do unspeakable things that no one deserves. We worked with hospice both times, and let's just say that if either my stepdad or my Mom had ever wanted to go out on their own terms, hospice would certainly have made that very easy (and I would have wholeheartedly enabled and supported it). I respected Babe's choice here, and loved Frankie and Grace for being the friends she needed.

Such a sad, tough and beautiful episode. I love the fact that both Fonda and Tomlin are willing to play their characters' flaws and weaknesses, ugly sides and all. I loved that Grace was embarrassed (rightly so) and that Frankie wasn't just going to sweep it away (again, rightly so). Grace's outburst was incredibly upsetting for all who witnessed it, and Frankie was right to say, "This is going to take me awhile to get over."

But that made the final scene so meaningful to me, when Grace showed up at the party, just as much to be a support for Frankie as to be a support for Babe (and it frankly made me cry). Just the scared, teary look on Grace's face -- and the understanding and gratitude on Frankie's, who knew what this was costing Grace to do.

I thought this was a lovely and beautiful chapter for Grace and Frankie both.