S11.E19: The Chitters

[catrox14]

14 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I have to wonder if the Winchester Brothers are more famous or infamous among their fellow hunters?  Cesar mentioned that he'd heard of them, but thought they had died a few years ago.  I wonder how many hunters would be hunting them if they knew just how often they had kick-started the end of the world, like in DSOTM?  I can't imagine they'd be too happy with them.

I thought that was a peculiar line. Rudy worked with them at the end of s10 so some hunters knew they were alive. Maybe Jesse and Cesar didn't know because they spent most of their time in Mexico. But yeah I don't think hunters in general think they are dead.

[AwesomO4000]

1 hour ago, catrox14 said:

? I was talking about Jesse and his brother in 1989.  Denver was progressive even back in 1989. I know of Denver. I grew up in the burbs of Denver. They might have felt more accepted in Cali but they could have gone to Denver and it would have been cheaper for them.

Ah, sorry. I thought for some reason the horse farm was in California, but now that I think about it, I think that I remember Arizona or something (so not California, but at least the west). Big Fail on my part.

However I don't fault the boys for not thinking of someplace other than California back then. Not much social media back then... likely all they knew of was what they saw on television, and for the most part that hadn't quite caught up at that time if I remember correctly. I was in rather progressive Gainesville, FL at that time, so not so bad. However, when I moved to Indiana a few years later to another university town, it somehow didn't seem as progressive even though it was a few years later and was another university town... It was one of those places where one of the first questions people asked upon meeting you was what church you went to. (Not the easiest question to deflect either, I found.)

I forgot where the boys started out, but depending on how small a town it was (and how stifling it seemed), it probably felt like they'd want to get as far away and to as a different a change of climate as possible. Also if I remember correctly, actually their biggest hurdle was waiting for the older brother to turn 18 so he could legally be his brother's guardian(?). When that actually happened, they might have gone with a less expensive, more achievable goal than Cali... probably wherever they almost ran out of money along the way ; ).

56 minutes ago, MysteryGuest said:

I have to wonder if the Winchester Brothers are more famous or infamous among their fellow hunters?  Cesar mentioned that he'd heard of them, but thought they had died a few years ago.  I wonder how many hunters would be hunting them if they knew just how often they had kick-started the end of the world, like in DSOTM?  I can't imagine they'd be too happy with them.

Sometimes they weren't. Remember that hunter of the pair Dean and Sam met who were hunting vampires in season 9, I think it was? She was pretty pissed off at Sam and didn't want to associate with him.

[catrox14]

Jesse and his brother were in Gunnison Colorado. Which is why I'm saying they could have gone to Denver.

[AwesomO4000]

Which entirely makes sense, I agree, but angsty teenagers and wizards and such... ; )

[ZennyKenny]

I liked this episode. Didn't love it, but liked it. Was waiting for a twist ending that just wasn't there. My wife was sure that Cesar was going to turn out to be a bad guy. When Sam & Jessie finally reached the nest, I expected there to be a big ambush or a showdown of a bunch of monsters. I am glad that the hunters lived though, and they were likeable characters.

 

I also enjoyed the ambience. The lighting and setting had a very "season 1" feel to it.

[Binns]

21 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

I thought it was a good episode, but it felt different somehow.  Though we at least got the obligatory "we'll look for Cas later, let's go hunt!" line.  I was really worried they'd disappoint me there!!  

The monsters were icky...the sound was almost the worst thing.  The whole concept of how they survived was gross, which made it interesting.  

I enjoyed the hunting couple.  I was afraid one of them was going to bite it, and I was really hoping that wouldn't be the case, so I was glad they got to walk away at the end.  It's nice to see hunters actually getting a shot at a normal life.  I still am holding out hope for that to be the end game for Sam and Dean.  I don't want to watch them die after 12 years of watching them suffer through every kind of evil shit imaginable.

I really want this too. I'd actually be ok if they go out in a blaze of glory and the series ends with them in heaven with their loved ones nearby....they can go to Harvelle's, etc....

[MysteryGuest]

The only problem with them ending up reunited with their family and friends in heaven is that they know it's not real.  They've been there enough and they know it's all smoke and mirrors and unless their memories are wiped clean, Dean for one would never be content with that.  It would feel almost like a prison to him, I think.  He just didn't seem impressed when Ash and Pamela were describing it to him.  I think he would hate it after a while.

[BlueMeanie]

4 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

The only problem with them ending up reunited with their family and friends in heaven is that they know it's not real.  They've been there enough and they know it's all smoke and mirrors and unless their memories are wiped clean, Dean for one would never be content with that.  It would feel almost like a prison to him, I think.  He just didn't seem impressed when Ash and Pamela were describing it to him.  I think he would hate it after a while.

What if Cas takes over as "God" again, but actually does a good job this time?

Edited May 1, 2016 by BlueMeanie

[sarthaz]

I enjoyed this episode, but I couldn't take Kandyse McClure seriously as the sheriff for even one second.  I know she lives in Vancouver, and by law, anyone who lives in Vancouver must get cast on this show, but that was a terrible choice.  I don't even think she believed her character, dropping her voice and adding lots of scowl to keep from laughing at the whole thing.  Her wardrobe didn't even fit!

[catrox14]

17 hours ago, MysteryGuest said:

The only problem with them ending up reunited with their family and friends in heaven is that they know it's not real.  They've been there enough and they know it's all smoke and mirrors and unless their memories are wiped clean, Dean for one would never be content with that.  It would feel almost like a prison to him, I think.  He just didn't seem impressed when Ash and Pamela were describing it to him.  I think he would hate it after a while.

Taking my reply to the all seasons thread

[SueB]

3 hours ago, sarthaz said:

  I know she lives in Vancouver, and by law, anyone who lives in Vancouver must get cast on this show, but that was a terrible choice.  

So.... Do you think you have to be an actual Canadian or just live there?  *investigates the price of apartments in Vancouver*

 

ETA. I agree, that wasn't the right part for her. They should have used her for something better IMO. 

Edited May 1, 2016 by SueB

[catrox14]

I thought Kandyse was fine. It was nice to see her play something different than Dualla which is what I remember her from the most. Her character said she hadn't been in the town long and she was trying to figure out how to tell these people what a messed up situation they had at hand. I thought she was fine for what she had to do.

[DittyDotDot]

Wow, I'm way late to this party, but just finally watched it. I don't know, I want to love it, but am left feeling like pretty much everything else lately...welp it wasn't offensive. It was an interesting and creepy new creature and I liked adding more characters to the mix. It's just everything is so mopey and melodramatic and, well, kinda boring in the end. I mean, how many sad and droopy sit 'n' chats do we need per episode? I get it, it's hard when your brother dies...sheesh!

Anyhoo, on the "guess what episode that actor was previously in" front, nice that Darla from Frontierland could make an appearance again. Plus, wasn't that kid who played Matty on the show before? I swear I've seen him before but can't quite place it right now.

 

47 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

I thought Kandyse was fine. It was nice to see her play something different than Dualla which is what I remember her from the most. Her character said she hadn't been in the town long and she was trying to figure out how to tell these people what a messed up situation they had at hand. I thought she was fine for what she had to do.

I didn't have a problem with her either, but wouldn't have minded they found a bigger role for her to play. I always enjoy her cropping up on these "Vancouver" shows.

Edited May 1, 2016 by DittyDotDot
Punctuation is important!

[catrox14]

Quote

Anyhoo, on the "guess what episode that actor was previously in" front, nice that Darla from Frontierland could make an appearance again. Plus, wasn't that kid who played Matty on the show before? I swear I've seen him before but can't quite place it right now.

He was a kid in a previous season but I can't remember which episode. Maybe the kid stuck in the walls of the house in s4? Or one of the ghost kids from the convention episode?

Edited May 1, 2016 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

7 minutes ago, catrox14 said:

He was a kid in a previous season but I can't remember which episode. Maybe the kid stuck in the walls of the house in s4? Or one of the ghost kids from the convention episode?

That's it! I think he was one of the ghost kids in The Real Ghostbusters. Thanks for joggin' my noggin', @catrox14.

Edited May 1, 2016 by DittyDotDot
Making that @mention work right.

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

Would It Be So Bad To Have Extra Hunters On Supernatural?

Why create two really awesome hunter characters and send them to a stupid horse farm?

[ahrtee]

20 hours ago, catrox14 said:

I thought Kandyse was fine. It was nice to see her play something different than Dualla which is what I remember her from the most. Her character said she hadn't been in the town long and she was trying to figure out how to tell these people what a messed up situation they had at hand. I thought she was fine for what she had to do.

I mostly remembered her from Dark Angel, where she played Joshua's blind girlfriend (and got to run her fingers all over Jensen's face to see what he looked like!)

[RulerofallIsurvey]

This was a nice, creepy MotW episode.  Pretty sure I watched this before, but, yowsa - the different things you notice taken in context after having seen all the previous seasons.  First time through last year, I thought the take on the cicada monster was boring, but I really liked it this time.  It was gross (impregnating the women and leaving the bodies to incubate the babies - ewwwwww) and suspenseful (the chittering noise and disappearing into the woods).

• Once again a homosexual couple portrayed on tv in a positive, not over the top, way.  I've said before this show does that very well.  And it does.  Also, kudos to Dean's understated reaction to figuring it out.  
• And I understand that Jesse was rightfully jaded by his experience after his brother died, but no reason to take it out on the current, local pd (who, apparently weren't around back then) and the Winchesters.
• The old sheriff though - I get that he was freaked out by finding his daughter, but I don't get that he didn't make up some story and allow all the other folks to get their loved one's bodies back and get some closure.
• Pretty sure Sam would know by now if that had really been oregano or weed back in college.  Which was a really weird bit to throw in.  That kind of screws with the story that when Sam left for college, he didn't see Dean until he showed up when John disappeared.  I'm going to have to go through the previous comments (haven't done it yet.) and hope that someone else has already come up with a handwave explanation I can accept!  lol.
• Personally, I think they should have gone with 'junkless'. 
• Nice break before we get to the string of heavy mytharc episodes coming up.  

Edited November 11, 2016 by RulerofallIsurvey
I don't know what MOW stands for - except something to do with grass. And not the kind they sell in CO.

[RulerofallIsurvey]

On 4/28/2016 at 0:04 PM, catrox14 said:

Quote

"What did you do? What, did you just erase her from your life? Pretend that she just went away somewhere?"

Sam/God and Dean/Amara parallels and juxtapositions.

Sam has never had someone NOT look for him nor be worried about his welfare that I can remember. Not really. He might not have understood that worry or maybe even took it for granted. I can see Sam's POV that he was worried about being abandoned himself but he seemed to be planning for what he would do should that day ever come.  That day came when Dean disappeared, so he went on to his plan B, it seems. I think Sam was caught between either feeling guilty or thinking "No this is what I always planned when I had nothing left'. I don't think Sam ever understood how terrible it is to be the one left behind too. And how it feels like you are forgotten and eventually erased.

Dean sees that Cesar was planning a life with Jesse beyond hunting. That once things were settled they would go on to something else. Cesar had no siblings so he had to always plan for something else. To an extent I think Dean might understand more now about Sam going on with life but that doesn't changed that he felt forgotten IMO

God/Amara - God thought he was doing the right thing apparently but Amara thinks God either forgot about her or wanted to forget about her, to erase her. 

I really like the parallels and juxtapositions you did here.  

Referencing the quote, it seems to me that's pretty much what Sam did in S8 after Dean disappeared; tried to pretend that he just went away somewhere.  I'm not sure that was ever quite his Plan B.  More like something he just fell into by default.  [shrug].  I don't know.  There's something about reading that quote, and knowing what Sam did in S8, that really bothers me now that I didn't catch in the episode.   

[bettername2come]

This one is disappointing after a run of really good episodes. Kandyse McClure never ages. She's barely changed since 2000. And yeah, totally unbelievable as the sheriff, but it's nice to see her in something. It's been awhile. And here's the fun flashback to her and a young Jensen Ackles, who we all know ages like fine wine. 

I'm glad Jesse and Cesar got out of the life. I think they're the only hunters who do. I also don't think they would've been that useful in the fight against Amara. They seem to be more day-to-day hunters. 

"You know it's a good thing you guys had that fire extinguisher." Fire extinguisher: the one thing they don't have in the Impala's trunk.  

[Hanahope]

Ew, definitely creepy monster.  Glad the hunter couple lived, always seems that one dies.  

I would have thought the older brother was a bit young for the monsters, but I guess I they took what they could get.

[The Companion]

On 4/28/2016 at 9:52 AM, Bessie said:

 I was so worried about the hunter couple throughout the episode and was so relieved they were both okay.  It made me happy that they got their happily ever after.   It left me feeling something I haven't felt for a long time with this show: a sense of hope.

 Although I do think this may be foreshadowing Dean's death, so there's that.

 

On 4/28/2016 at 10:00 AM, SueB said:

They LIVED!  I'm so freaking happy about the fact that Jesse & Cesar (sp?) lived!  I NEEDED a happy ending.  I expect we are about to get a non-happy ending (there was a TON of foreshadowing this episode IMO). I was also proud of Dean and Sam recognizing that they should let these two just have their happy ever after. It's rare but they have a plan.  

I get why some feel "nothing happened" but I think this episode probably was more than a 'pallet cleanser', I think it was a way of establishing how in-synch the boys are right now while reminding us of the stakes of losing a loved one.  

I want to watch a second time before more comments.  

I was a bit of a mess watching this because I loved them so much. Seriously, I considered turning it off and thinking AND THEY SURVIVED AND GOT THEIR REVENGE AND LIVED HAPPILY EVER AFTER. Somehow, the happy ending was the biggest surprise in awhile. Lol. 

Which leads me to another observation. This season is so good, in part, because they are introducing really interesting and compelling side characters. I actually cared whether the kid survived in Safe House and I cared whether Jesse and Cesar survived. 

On 4/28/2016 at 10:03 AM, catrox14 said:

I am so happy to see a gay hunter couple that LIVED to see the light of day. That was cool. And they can always bring Cesar and Jesse out of retirement if they need to. I liked them quite a bit.

Jesses' resemblance to Benny did not escape me. It looked like it was filmed in Purgatory too. Dean being saved by Cesar was a direct callback IMO to Benny saving Dean from the vamps in Purgatory. 

. . .

Sam wouldn't have known about vampires when he was a kid because he didn't learn about them until s1. OOPS. That's the only real thing that bugged me about the episode.

I am torn about seeing them again, because I really don't want one of them to die. Also, I love that they got a happy resolution. 

I agree that that was a callback. It was reminiscent of that scene for me too.

I am okay with this because Sam is talking about it retrospectively. He is pulling random baddies out of his head to describe his fear that they had been killed on a hunt. He probably doesn't remember the specific fears and/or when he learned about particular monsters. 

 

On 4/28/2016 at 4:22 PM, catrox14 said:

That was in Bedtime Stories, when Dean was surprised by Sam knowing fairy tales: He said" Dude, could you be more gay?" It was a bad line. Terrible. Stupid. Dean was an asshole for saying it.

Dean didn't seem to be upset that there was a gay couple cosplaying him at the convention. I think he side-eyed for a hot minute until he realized they weren't actually cosplaying Wincest. The male vegan waiter was totally hitting on him in The Mentalists and he didn't seemed particularly bothered by it. I always thought Dean seemed mildly disappointed that Aaron was not his "gay" thing in s8. 

Here he didn't seem to consider that Jesse and Cesar were a couple and there was no particular reason for him to assume their relationship status one way or the other. It's only when Dean made the comment about them arguing like brothers that it came up.

So, I held my breath as well and it isn't because I think Dean's character is not accepting, it's because I don't trust the writers not to suddenly decide to have Dean be uncomfortable. Every so often we get the comments like the one in Bedtime Stories, or the gross hitting on teenagers or suddenly Dean becomes an oaf who doesn't know how to behave in public. I always think they are OOC, but they happen and they are always disappointing. Does that make sense? 

So I didn't trust the show to have Dean immediately jump to: what's it like to be married to a hunter? I loved it, though. 

On 4/28/2016 at 9:56 PM, SueB said:

Finally got to re-watch today.  I was mostly struck by the different ways people deal with grief.  The wife from '89 blamed the man. The older sheriff just literally shut down and never recovered. Jesse took the John Winchester route: revenge.  When Dean was talking with Cesar there were two things mentioned; how you never get over when someone you loves dies when you are young (Dean with Mary) and how even if revenge doesn't "fix" a person, you still have to support them in that process (Dean with John). In both situations, grief forever shaped their lives. I'm not sure precisely where this is headed but somehow I think 'grief' is part of the mytharc (not just a reaction to events that are about to happen).

Then there was Sam and Jesse and the isolation and abandonment issues.  Both felt 'different' as they were growing up. For Sam it was the life as a hunter's kid. For Jesse it was being alone in the knowledge of what really happened.  I felt a connection between them on this need to make things right.  Like, for Jesse, if he got his revenge then it justified his hard life.  And for Sam, the hunting life and saving people is how he can now look back and say his estrangement from 'normal' was the sacrifice made to allow him to save people now.  It's always BEEN part of the bumper sticker, but I feel like Sam has sort of re-embraced that mission and finally made it his own this past year.  He's no longer just doing the 'family business', he's doing his own calling.  

I'm not explaining this well, but for both Sam and Dean, I feel like there was some additional 'closure' for their own past as they helped Cesar and Jesse achieve their goals. In such a creepy episode, it gave me a sense of contentment.  

 

Speaking of the creepy - I kinda like the MOTW.  Cicadas have always been a weird insect with their 17 year cycle. I like that they came up with an insect/monster hybrid that fed on that weirdness.  

I think this is spot on. I loved the way this tackled grief and how it affects us all differently. I also loved loved loved that moment in the car where Cesar and Dean are talking about revenge and how it is never fulfilling but how you have to support him and let him go after it anyway. This recognition that when you love someone who has been altered by grief, you can't fix them. You have to love all of them, even the part that is broken and glued back together. And you don't get to tell them how to process that grief. It was just such a beautifully written shorthand of such a deep topic. 

And I agree about the closure. I loved that moment between them in the car and all of the stuff that was said between the lines. 

I also liked the MOTW. The chittering was really creepy and the idea that they take over your body to reproduce so deeply unsettling.

On 4/29/2016 at 8:26 PM, catrox14 said:

? I was talking about Jesse and his brother in 1989.  Denver was progressive even back in 1989. I know of Denver. I grew up in the burbs of Denver. They might have felt more accepted in Cali but they could have gone to Denver and it would have been cheaper for them.

I think that is absolutely true, but I did think California made sense in 1989. It was the height of the AIDS crisis and there was a lot of awfulness directed squarely at gay men in particular. My recollection is California, and specifically San Francisco, was short hand for a place where you would be accepted during that time period. I also think there was a real feeling of wanting to run away, and perhaps Denver wouldn't have been far enough. Honestly, both would have worked for me from a story perspective. 

On 11/11/2016 at 7:51 AM, RulerofallIsurvey said:

• Personally, I think they should have gone with 'junkless'.  

Junkless was unreasonably funny to me for some reason. I could not get enough of them saying it. I am 12. lol.

 

How great was this episode? Seriously. How great is this season, overall. I mean, I think this is my absolute least favorite big bad of the entire show, and yet I find myself absolutely loving a good portion of it. 

Cesar and Jesse were a fantastic addition, IMO. I loved their quiet support of one another. I felt protective over Jesse because of the one brother scene. They managed to convey so much through a few scenes. 

I actually found the MoTW really creepy and horrifying. The idea of being killed and having my body used for gestation is pretty damn awful. Plus that sound. 

I thought the parallels were actually fairly well done and subtle. I loved the brothers working together and communicating, including some nonverbal communication. 

My only minor nits are 1. I could have skipped the old sheriff entirely in favor of some additional screentime for Jesse and Cesar who were infinitely more interesting; and 2. the splitting up was so eyeroll worthy.

Those are so minor compared to how much I loved this one. 

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, The Companion said:

My only minor nits are 1. I could have skipped the old sheriff entirely in favor of some additional screentime for Jesse and Cesar who were infinitely more interesting; and 2. the splitting up was so eyeroll worthy.

My nit re your nits. OK, they split up.  Jesse just wants to go find the things and kill them. He has no use for anyone in this town, and for good reason. Yet they split up and send Sam and Jesse to the sheriff.  Why not have Sam and DEan go to the sheriff, or Dean and Cesar, or Sam and Cesar.  Literally any other combination. Or, do they really need two people to talk to the sheriff.  Just send Sam and have 3 people go after the monsters. 

[The Companion]

13 minutes ago, Katy M said:

My nit re your nits. OK, they split up.  Jesse just wants to go find the things and kill them. He has no use for anyone in this town, and for good reason. Yet they split up and send Sam and Jesse to the sheriff.  Why not have Sam and DEan go to the sheriff, or Dean and Cesar, or Sam and Cesar.  Literally any other combination. Or, do they really need two people to talk to the sheriff.  Just send Sam and have 3 people go after the monsters. 

I really meant splitting up in the woods and in the mine, but this too. I honestly don't know that we gained anything from the entire sheriff discussion, but it does seem worthwhile to have more hunters in the place where the monsters are roaming as well.